← Dressed: The History of Fashion
Dressed: The History of Fashion
Dolly Parton's Life Lived in Rhinestones: Behind the Seams with Rebecca Seaver, Part II (Dressed Classic)
00:42:12
Loading summary
Transcript106 lines
- [00:00]
Podcast Host 1
It's tax season, and at Lifelock, we know you're tired of numbers, but here's a big one you need to billions. That's the amount of money and refunds the IRS has flagged for possible identity fraud. Now here's another big number. 100 million. That's how many data points LifeLock monitors every second. If your identity is stolen, we'll fix it. Guaranteed. One last big number. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com podcast for the threats you can't control. Terms apply. Yeah Film Vault we are one of the original film podcasts. That can't be true. There was like two other film podcasts when we began. Brian, how long are we doing the show? You and I first sat down and did a version of the show over 20 years. My God. Two episodes each week. One we review movies and the first episode. The second one different top five every week.
- [00:49]
Rebecca Seaver
Movies that made you cry.
- [00:50]
Podcast Host 1
Worst movie accents, most disturbing ones A the film ball. Check it out wherever you find.
- [00:56]
Ann Roth
Find podcasts.
- [00:57]
Podcast Host 1
That's right, the Film vault going on 20 plus years.
- [01:01]
April Callahan
Please enjoy one of our favorite episodes from the Dressed archive of over 500 plus shows. The history of Fashion is a production of dressed media. With over 8 billion people in the world, we all have one thing in common. Every day, we all get dressed.
- [01:20]
Cassidy Zachary
We welcome to Dressed the History of Fashion, a podcast where we explore the who, what, when of why we wear. We are fashion historians and your hosts.
- [01:29]
April Callahan
April Callahan and Cassidy Zachary welcome, dress listeners, to Part two of our fascinating ongoing conversation with Rebecca Seaver, Dolly Parton's niece, who is also the director of Dolly's Archive and someone who has played no small part in quite literally fashioning the book we are discussing this week. And that, of course, is Dolly Parton's behind the My Life and Rhinestones. Today we continue our conversation with Rebecca about Dolly's style evolution beginning in the 1980s, when Dolly makes her Hollywood debut as Doralee Rhodes in nine to five. So let's jump back into our conversation. So Dolly takes Hollywood by storm in the 1980s. 9 to 5, the best little whorehouse in Texas. My personal favorites are still Magnolias and Straight Talk, which I don't think gets a lot of People don't talk about Straight Talk as much as they should because I love that movie. Can you talk about that era and maybe about her relationship with the Western costume house who started helping her with her fanciest dresses off and on the screen?
- [02:32]
Rebecca Seaver
I mean, her movie wardrobe is some of my favorite stuff that Is in her archive, of course, as a performer. Best Little Whorehouse in Texas is just like a dreamland. To see up close and to be able to care for it and maintain it. Those are just some of the most beautiful, beautiful costumes. And Western has been really helpful with us because they've sent us all of the information that they had about those costumes. So we've been able to figure out who made those and who was around at that time, who was making the sketches, but who was putting it together. And actually, Dolly met a lot of people at that time that she would take to work with her for years after the movies. So that was really exciting. One of the people that I got to interview for the book was Ann Roth. And Anne Roth did all the wardrobe for nine to five. And she is. Ann Roth is just an incredible force in her own right. And being able to interview her, I think she's in her late 80s or 90s and she's just a spitfire.
- [03:34]
April Callahan
Yes, I love her. And actually, let's listen into a little bit of your conversation with her with the sound bite from the audiobook.
- [03:42]
Ann Roth
The truth is that it was 1980. I was a very busy costume designer and Hollywood was not my world. But I have done at this time, probably around 200 movies. I did a lot of movies around Hollywood, but the studio system was not my thing. I did coming Home with Jane and that's how I guess I got invited to do this movie. But Dolly, Jane and Lily and I became part of this little group. I mean, quite honestly, we. We were in it for the fun. I was anyway. Dolly, I think she was puzzled at first what it was like to make a movie. And this was a big movie. At Fox Studios, they found that it was a first tier picture or whatever they call those things. At any rate, we felt terribly important, but we had a great time. A lot of giggles. And that's one of the words you must put in whatever you're saying about me, because that's what we did. Well, it's true. It was actually fun. There was not one bit of dread to go to work. I'm not a fashion person. I do costumes for the character that is written. I came from the world so that when a movie star would say, oh, I never wear yellow, I say, who gives a damn what you wear? We're not talking about you. We're talking about the character Genevieve or whatever her name is, because that's the key to what I do. This isn't about her. This is about the character she's playing. The Point is that Dolly got it. I guess after she read three pages, there was no intellectual discussion about the preparation of it. She got it. And wasn't Dabney divine? The chemistry was sensational.
- [05:46]
April Callahan
And I just really love and appreciate the audiobook because you do these in person interviews and we actually get to hear from the people that you feature in the physical copy of the book.
- [05:57]
Rebecca Seaver
I love talking to her because she just had a specific point of view and she is so feisty. And also like a really cute kind of thing that I just found out was she was in the Barbie movie, in the scene where she's on the park bench and she. Barbie says to her, you look so beautiful. And she says, I know. That's Ann Roth. And so I just, I love that little Barbie. Dolly connection there through her. And she's one of the ladies that was singing on nine to five in the, you know, choir part where all of the women came in and recorded. So I just, I. I thought it was so special that we got to talk to her and hang out a little bit for the, for the book.
- [06:33]
April Callahan
And I love reading in the book this part where Dolly talks about if she didn't put a note on her clothes, her sisters would borrow anything. And you have the note that she wrote to her sisters about doralee, her character, 9 to 5. And on the note says, please do not borrow these clothes. They are keepsakes from the movie 9 to 5. Thank you, Dolly.
- [06:51]
Rebecca Seaver
I think she had to for sure do that on the 9 to 5 clothes because they were so wearable. You know, like her sisters worn that to dinner or out on a date, like, because they were normal people clothing. But most of her stage clothes, they could never wear that anywhere. But I think the Doralee clothes, they were like, oh, that dress would look really cute on me. And they all the Parton sisters are shaped the same. They're all bathed. So I love the little handwritten notes. We have a whole section of notes that we've saved that are just her or Judy. We have Judy's notes as well. And I just, I think those are such sweet, sweet, special moments.
- [07:27]
April Callahan
Yes, absolutely. And I also loved learning that Dolly worked with Western costumes and the team to design her own look. She writes about how she would come up with her own ideas and they would execute them. So, for instance, for the LA premiere of 9 to 5, there's that beautiful white hand, beaded, like, tense. It almost looks like Tencel that's featured in the book that was a collaboration between her and Western Costumes. Can you Talk a little bit more about that relationship.
- [07:53]
Rebecca Seaver
Yeah, I think for Dolly, when she got to Hollywood, you know, nothing to say bad about Ruth and Lucy, but I think it was just another level of her career where she was kind of leveling up at that time. And so of course to be able to work with a professional costume company out in LA was just a dream for her. And then she says in the whorehouse movie that was the first time she ever had custom shoes made for. And so she had for the first time, heels that were the actual height that she wanted. And so they fit her feet and wear them for a long time. And she used that shoemaker D. Fabrizio for a time after the movies. And actually today the people that make her shoes are apprentices from his apprentice. So it's been passed down through the people that have been working on them. And I think that's just that shows because Dolly does keep people around for a long time. If they want to do the work, she wants them there. And if they're doing the work, she wants to keep them there. And I just think that that longevity in relationships with people is so obvious because of who she is. I think people want that long term relationship with her because she's easy to.
- [09:02]
April Callahan
Work with and so clear throughout this book. Right. I mean, this book really is as much a love letter to her clothes as it is the people who are behind her clothes and behind her image. And she gives everybody their due in terms of, you know, just giving them credit for how they've contributed.
- [09:17]
Rebecca Seaver
And I definitely wanted to give Setsi G nev her flowers because she was responsible for some of those really iconic, I call them the sisters, where it's the back in the late 70s, early 80s, that was the beaded dress that beads from the waist all the way down. And she has them in all different colors. And that is such an iconic Dolly look. And I think Setsi understood Dolly's point of view because of how little she was. And she knew that she wanted to be really sexy but not be too shown. She didn't want to show all the goods, but she wanted to show the good. Yes. And so I think. I think Nancy really understood that. And I didn't even. I wasn't pronouncing her name correctly for a minute. And then I did my interview with Dolly and I think I was calling her tetsy and $no, it's setsy, like sexy. And I was like, that makes perfect sense. Of course the sexy lady would make the sexy clothes.
- [10:14]
April Callahan
And Setsi is Of course, she was the head of Western costumes, Right? Head of the costume department.
- [10:19]
Rebecca Seaver
Yeah. And so I think Setsi was just the person who knew everybody in town and would be able to get it done for her. And so she probably is the one who brought the shoemaker in so that Dolly could have the perfect shoes. Cause up until that point, Dolly was finding high heels high enough for her at Fredericks of Hollywood. Yeah, most of her early.
- [10:36]
April Callahan
With the platform.
- [10:38]
Rebecca Seaver
Yeah, most of her early high heel shoes are, like, from that catalog. And I, you know, I'm obsessed with that. A lot of her. A lot of her stuff is from Fredericks of Hollywood from that day. Because she. I think that really illustrated her style at that time. It was sexy. The shoes were very tall. She was always on the fringe of looking like a stripper. She's been wearing, like, Lucite heels since the 70s. So she was definitely first on the market with it.
- [11:06]
April Callahan
And I love, too, because she pays homage to Mae west in so many ways.
- [11:09]
Rebecca Seaver
Right.
- [11:10]
April Callahan
And talks about how she's her idol in so many ways. And I don't think a lot of people, I certainly never realized this. Dolly's only five feet tall, and Mae west was also very tiny and had those heels custom made for her. And so I thought that was really cool to learn about. And I mean, obviously Dolly loves her heels. How many shoes do you think are in your archive?
- [11:32]
Rebecca Seaver
Oh, I mean, she gets new shoes all the time, so the number is growing because I can't stop her and Steve from making new outfits because she just keeps doing more stuff. But I mean, we're definitely. We have at least 1200 on the market already of things are retired shoes. And she. They've changed over the years. She's wearing higher platforms now than she ever has, which I think is hilarious because she's going to keep getting taller if she wants to be. And she even said when we were doing our interview for the book, I think Mae west was a fashion inspiration to her. But Mae west really showed Dolly that you could be a businesswoman and also be a sex icon. Because Mae west, like Dolly says, owned half of Hollywood and he was known for her business acumen. And I think people overlooked what an incredible businesswoman Dolly is.
- [12:26]
April Callahan
Oh, absolutely.
- [12:26]
Rebecca Seaver
She has definitely figured out how to diversify her income. She has a freaking theme park. You know, I think Mae west was such an inspiration to her in so many ways about how to be strong but feminine, but smart and know that you own your product. And she said that Mae west was at the end, in A wheelchair with her high heels. And she said, you better keep my high heels on my feet if I'm ever in a wheelchair. And I was like, promise? Whatever you want. Let's not talk about that.
- [12:54]
April Callahan
I don't want to talk about it. There's a quote from her that I don't have written down, but somewhere, I think it's from the 90s that she talks about how at the end of her life, she will still be wearing makeup. The hair, the high heels, everything like that is Dolly through and through.
- [13:09]
Rebecca Seaver
I do not doubt it one single, solitary bit.
- [13:12]
April Callahan
And am I. Did I read this correctly? I had to read it a couple times. Does she sleep with her makeup on? There's a quote in there about her washing her face. She's like, you have to wash your face once a day. But then I kept rereading it and I was like, she sleeps with her makeup on.
- [13:27]
Rebecca Seaver
Yeah. I think it started for her when she was spending a lot of time out in LA and she's really scared of earthquakes, and so she didn't want to. Where she lived, like where her little house was in LA was where all the celebrities were. So of course all the paparazzi was there already. And I think in her mind, she was just never going to get caught without being Dolly.
- [13:49]
April Callahan
Brilliant.
- [13:51]
Rebecca Seaver
I know, it's. There's always these, like, TikTok videos about how Dolly just look like a regular soccer mom and that she can totally go out in public and not look like Dolly. And that is such a lie. She always looks like Dolly. Even if you put different clothes and different hair on her. She's so obviously Dolly. That's who she is all the time. Even when I pick her up and we go to Sonic for cheddar peppers, she is, like, in her hair, in her makeup, she's got her false eyelashes on, got her heels on, her bag matches. She's got it together always. She's one of those women that's a very Southern archetype of. I call them, like Southern living beauty queens. Their house is immaculate. They are immaculate and their life is. And Dolly really is. She is immaculate all the time. I think for her, she's comfortable being in some sort of face. She's not in show makeup.
- [14:44]
April Callahan
Right.
- [14:45]
Rebecca Seaver
She's not going to bed in a red lip, you know what I mean? But she definitely is going to sleep in her eyeliner or whatever because she doesn't want to look like a hag laying next to Carl, which I think Nelly too, because she is absolutely beautiful. I mean, when she doesn't have any hair or makeup on. She has got the most gorgeous skin. She has got the most gorgeous bone structure. Her hair is absolutely beautiful and sweet and pretty and wavy and blonde and like, she's absolutely gorgeous without any stitch of makeup or hair on. She doesn't believe it, but is. She is stunning.
- [15:23]
April Callahan
Oh, my gosh. I know. We all love Dolly so much too.
- [15:27]
Rebecca Seaver
She's just one of those people. She's very easy to love. She's a human, though. I mean, we've, we're family, so we have, we've had arguments, you know, we've, we've had little tiffs here and there. Especially when I was a teenager, I had such a mark on me.
- [15:41]
April Callahan
But I mean, yeah, she's your aunt. I'm sure she had things to say too.
- [15:45]
Rebecca Seaver
Yeah, I mean, and she's like a second mom to me. She's always been very consistently there in my life and she has earned her opinion about my life and I take it. I appreciate her direction and her, you know, being, being able to confide in her and stuff. I mean, she really, even when we're fighting, it's still because she just loves me. But we don't fight very often. I can maybe like on one hand the big like knockdown drag outs we've had, but it was just family stuff.
- [16:20]
Cassidy Zachary
We are so excited to share that this podcast is Sponsored by the RealReal. The best place to shop authenticated luxury handbags, clothing, watches and so much more. For years now, Cass and I have both been shopping and selling, selling at the RealReal. Which is great because I can also use my earnings to buy something special and new to me.
- [16:41]
April Callahan
Yes, it's the easiest way to sell. And when you sell with the real world, they do everything for you from photography and copywriting to shipping, pricing, customer service. So you can just sit back and get paid. Plus, with over 40 million fashion lovers on the RealReal, your items will sell fast. The RealReal just makes it so, so easy. Resell is what they do so you have time to do you.
- [17:05]
Cassidy Zachary
The RealReal is the go to place for your next special piece. Looking to add another super cozy winter coat to your wardrobe? The perfect vacation sandals. Ready to invest in a new bag to add to your collection? Find exactly what you're looking for that no one else has at the RealReal.
- [17:22]
April Callahan
The RealReal is the most trusted name and authenticated luxury resell with over 10,000 new arrivals daily. No one does resale like the RealReal. And now get $25 off of your first purchase when you go to therealreal.com dressed that's therealreal.com dressed to get your $25 off, start shopping now@therealreal.com dressed dressed listeners, join April and I in simplifying your time in the kitchen with Marley Spoon. Marley Spoon has tons of options in their marketplace, from meal shortcuts and drinks to fresh groceries. You can add on each week.
- [17:57]
Cassidy Zachary
And here's what I love. They give you over 100 recipes to choose from each week. We're talking comforting classics like chicken Milanese with cucumber arugula salad to fresh balanced dishes like everything bagel salmon with truffle chive potatoes and green beans, all made with quality ingredients. There's something for every mood.
- [18:18]
April Callahan
And for those nights when you need dinner like yesterday, Marley Spoon's prepared meals are exactly what they sound like. Convenient, delicious, on on the table in minutes. These are lifesavers when I really just don't feel like cooking. And you'll find these on every weekly menu. And if you've got a few extra minutes, they have some great 20 minute options too. My personal favorite, hack the tray bake dinners. Literally throw everything on one tray and boom, you're done. They even include the tray.
- [18:45]
Cassidy Zachary
That's so cool. So this new year, fast track your way to eating well with Marley spoon. Head to marley spoon.com offer dressed for 45% off your first order and free delivery. That's right, 45% off your first order and Free delivery. That's marleyspoon.com offer dressed.
- [19:11]
April Callahan
So by the late 80s and moving into the 90s and 2000, Dolly really becomes this huge international celebrity. She's working with any number of designers to create her and ever evolving wardrobe, which I did notice throughout the book. It gets shorter or maybe back to the 1960s short, but it's no less glittery, it's no less glamorous. Can you talk about her style evolution during this period and specifically about some of those designers who played an integral role in creating that evolving style, starting with her dear friend and designer, Tony Chase.
- [19:46]
Rebecca Seaver
Yeah, I think Tony was the turning point in her fashion look. He came on right before she did the Dolly show in the 80s and he had a very specific look. I mean, he was designing clothes for Patti LaBelle and a lot of like Vegas show acts. And he kind of had a Bob Mackie vibe about what he was doing, but it was a little bit of a different take. But he had that level of beading feather show clothes that she was after. And so I think she's kind of like a Barbie doll for a designer. If you know her shape and you can figure out how to make her shape look great, then you can dress her up in any kind of way, because she loves to play characters. And Toni just had a very good understanding of what looked best on her and how to fit everything to her body, because she is very specific. She's very top heavy. And so you have to really work the clothes in a certain way. It's kind of like dressing a drag queen. You gotta make sure your proportions are correct. Right. If you don't, then you look. It just doesn't work. And so Tony really understood that, and he brought the glamour that she was needing in her. Not just. I mean, she had glamour in her movies, but he brought the glamour to her. Everything. She was definitely leveling up again when she met Tony. And so I think that was just a such a pivotal moment in her style evolution. And he made so many dresses that even after he had passed away, she was still wearing his clothes up until in the early 2000s, to the point where they were like, okay, you gotta stop Judy. I think Judy told her, like, hey, these. No, we can't wear these anymore. And so I think during the 90s, after Toni passed away, she floated around to different people who were big in the industry and just trying to find the right person who understood her shape, who understood her style and availability. And she went to a few different people, but she finally got with Robert Behar. And Robert has. Is still designing stuff for her today. And so he also has that Mackie vibe. He's very much an elevated designer of the stars. And so he works in all of those clothes out there, from Tony, Robert to Now with Steve Summers. All of those big show clothes are made in Los Angeles at Sylvia's Costumes. And that costume shop is where Taylor Swift and Beyonce get clothes made. So it's very. It's very well known for intricate beading and beautiful construction. So they are just an incredible company in what they do.
- [22:25]
April Callahan
I'm glad you mentioned beading and construction, because that's one of my next questions. But first, I just want to talk about a couple of the dresses featured in the Tony Chase section, because there's that sailor dress, quote unquote. It's this bejeweled 1920s inspired sailor dress that she wore on her TV series to sing star of the show. It weighs 12 and a half pounds. How do you store something like that?
- [22:51]
Rebecca Seaver
In an archive box? A lot of that stuff was hanging when we first got in there. But we've had a lot. I mean, we took a lot of that that was hanging down because it was so heavy. I mean, you just cannot leave stuff hanging like that because it just stretches the garment. So, yeah, all of that stuff lives in archive boxes and is padded and has all of its little accessories in with it. You would think that it weighs more. When you're holding that sailor dress, you think it's easily like £40, because.
- [23:24]
April Callahan
Right.
- [23:24]
Rebecca Seaver
So heavy. And when we weighed it and it was only 12, like only £12, we were like, wow, that's not as heavy as I thought. But still, £12 for a dress is a lot. And you think most dresses are like maybe a pound, maybe two if it's got leather or beads on it. But £12, plus she's little and she's got all that hair and the heels. And being on set, I really don't know how she did it. I think she's got invisible wings or something.
- [23:54]
April Callahan
Well, she talks about how sometimes her costumes have become a hazard, so especially those heavily beaded gowns. And that more than once she had to stop her show so that her crew could come sweep broken strands of beads off the stage.
- [24:08]
Rebecca Seaver
Yeah, she hates it. But we call those dolly droppings. She hates it though. So for the audience, please don't start using that. But yeah, sometimes those are all hand beaded fringe pieces, all custom made for that garment. And you know, I think if, you know that beating, if you lose a strand of it or if like the knot comes undone at the end, the whole strand is done. And sometimes if a beaded costume, like if one knot comes loose, then it just keeps unraveling and you're just kind of screwed. But I think Dolly is such a professional and so good at what she does. Like, she just knows how to overcome any malfunction ever. I mean, she is just a master at being able to move through that.
- [24:56]
April Callahan
That kind of stuff does not surprise me at all. That section also has that pearl dress, which she says is one of her all time favorites. She said, this is the kind of dress I dreamed of as a little girl.
- [25:07]
Dolly Parton
It's the gown that I wore. It's that beautiful white pearl gown that I wore when I performed He's Alive on the CMA Awards show years ago. That was a very special night. But that dress was just. I just felt so spiritual and pretty in that dress. And I loved the way Tony Chase had done that dress and he'd done the arms to where when you raise your arms, you know, it had like, almost like. Not wings, but it just had just enough flow to where it was just a beautiful dress. I just remember feeling good in that dress. And every time I see that he's a live performance or I see that dress up in our archives or at the museum, it always brings that back.
- [25:48]
April Callahan
There has to be thousands of pearls and beads on this dress. And it's just so incredible to consider how much time and craftsmanship goes into each of these pieces. Dolly's archive probably represents hundreds. Not probably. Definitely represents hundreds of thousands of hours of work and includes work by you, I believe, because you did mention earlier that you do rhinestone. Some of her clothing.
- [26:16]
Rebecca Seaver
I do rhinestone, but just with glue. I'm not a beater. I don't know how to do all that. I will not take credit for that stuff, because I'm just a glue stuff to stuff person.
- [26:27]
April Callahan
You mentioned, Sylvia, costumes. Can you talk a little bit about what goes into making some of these clothes? Because you've spent a lot of time up close with these garments.
- [26:36]
Rebecca Seaver
Yeah. The pearl dress you mentioned, it is absolutely stunning. Up close, it's even more stunning. It's all these beautiful pearls with champagne bugle beads lined in between each line of pearls. It's got a line of bugle beads in it, and it's all beaded on like an English net, I believe. And then this, the lining is all just beautiful, beautiful silk satin. It's just. It's absolutely stunning, and it's very sturdy. Those dresses are meticulously made. They are not fragile. They are fragile, but they are very strong for what they are created for their stage costumes, they have to be able to withstand a performance. And so there is a level of strength and durability to those clothes that I don't think people quite realize. But, like, the foundation of what they're made on and how they're beaded and how that all stands up together on itself. I mean, it's just incredible. It's scientific how they do what they do. And with what I do, trying to put these clothes on display, I just want to make sure that they are represented in the way that they are. Nothing will ever come close to Dolly being in it. But when we display them, we try to give them as much life and as much dolly as we can so that they really get to shine again.
- [27:58]
April Callahan
Yeah, absolutely. I'm assuming you have custom Dolly mannequins?
- [28:01]
Rebecca Seaver
Yes, we do. And some. I used to make all of them, but we've been able to acquire and. And get some new custom forms made but that is probably the hardest part of putting things on display, is wrestling those dolly forms. Because you can't just buy a mannequin and think that it's gonna work. You have to. It's like padding out a drag queen, kind of really. Like, it's. There's a lot of customization that goes along with it. And she's little, so you have to really think about not just the size of the mannequin being short. Like, the arms have to be a little bit smaller. The legs have to be a little bit smaller. The waist needs to be a little bit shorter. The boobs gotta be big, but it can't be the whole thing. So it's like. It's so. So specific and such a headache sometimes, but worth it in the end.
- [28:49]
April Callahan
Well, Rebecca, you have been so generous with your time today. I am so grateful to sit down with you here and talk about this wonderful book. And before you go, though, do you have any special or favorite pieces or stories from the archive or from the book that you want to share that we have not covered today?
- [29:06]
Rebecca Seaver
I mean, not really. One of my favorite parts that I was excited to put in the book was the Hell's Bells costume from the early one.
- [29:14]
April Callahan
Oh, yeah.
- [29:15]
Rebecca Seaver
I had all wondered what that was from, and then, you know, had never really asked her about it until the interview. And when I brought it up, she gave me this hilarious story of her and my mom and her friends having these little outfits made, and they had mopeds, and then Dolly crashed on her moped, and Carl took them away from the girls. Just little things like that were so exciting. Working in the archives is fun with my personal connection because, you know, I'll come across things that I was with her when she wore that, or she played the House of blues on my 16th birthday, and I got to meet RuPaul, and, like, that outfit still lives. And so there are, like, little personal moments that feel kind of connected. When I pull something off a shelf and I'm like, oh, she wore this at my wedding. You know, like, she walked me down the aisle in that. You know, those kinds of moments are where it's not just a job for me. It really is a personal calling to do what I do, and I'm proud of it, and I'm excited that I get to keep bringing these little ideas for her to life.
- [30:19]
April Callahan
And what I love about this book, and I kind of already mentioned this earlier, but it's. It is that it is really, in so many ways, a tribute to not just the clothing but the people who've shaped Dolly's life. And you've pointed this out in interviews. I've. I've read with you where you say it takes an entire village to look that cheap.
- [30:36]
Rebecca Seaver
Right.
- [30:36]
April Callahan
It's really clear how much she treasures the people she has worked with over the years who have played integral roles in making her who she is. And that, of course, includes you. And she's made it very clear that this book would never have happened without you. And I'm just curious, what does this book mean to you, and what are you hoping people will take away from it?
- [30:57]
Rebecca Seaver
Well, when I pitched the idea of the book, at first she was kind of resistant because she didn't want to just do a book that was about pretty things with no meaning to it. But I told her in the meeting we had, this is not just about the dresses. I want to be able to showcase all the people behind it that have helped make it happen, because there's so many of us that do all of this. And when she heard that part, it clicked, and she was like, oh, okay. It's not just about me wearing pretty dresses. It's about giving the people behind the scenes their flowers. And so for me, that was special because then she understood what my point of view was, and she knew that we were going to gather stories, not just about her wearing them, but how it came to be that she wore it, the process. Because as a person that works in costuming and makes clothes and makes costumes and rhinestones embellish things. Like, I know that I have put my own blood, sweat, tears, and hours and hours of time into some of these things, and it's sometimes thankless work. She's very grateful. She is always amazing to her team. But when she's on stage at the Emmy Awards, no one is thinking that I just spent 16 hours putting rhinestones on that outfit. But I know it, and it's so special for me because even while I'm doing it, I think to myself, this might be in a museum one day. Like, you better not mess it up. That's such a special. I think, for anybody that works on her stuff, that piece is going to live on long after her appearance in it, because it goes into the archive and it might be part of something later. And I think that's such a special and gratifying feeling, you know? And that was what I wanted. I wanted the people who were responsible for helping her get that look to be thanked and represented. And it felt like, with Songteller coming out, it felt like the Right. Time to have a follow up to that. And then she also wants to do another one to talk about her life on the road. And so I'm really excited to be able to bring the trilogy home with this, I think she wants to call it. And she said this in an interview. She's. She's already revealed this, but she's going to call it star of the show, My Life on the Road. And so I'm excited to pull the instruments out and photograph those and talk to her band members and her backup singers and her bus drivers and people that have been with her throughout all of these little moments because that's the little life that people don't really get to see because they get to see the big life that she leads. But the little life is very important too. That's, you know, that's her humanity. So I think part of the book was trying to showcase her as a star, but bring her humanity in it as well.
- [33:45]
April Callahan
Absolutely. And you absolutely succeeded. Like I said, just such a beautiful book. And for those of us who are never going to get to visit, you know, Dolly's archive and never get to meet Dolly personally. Right. This is a gift to us because it gives us that piece of Dolly. Right. And it lets us into her world in a way that we never otherwise would have been able to visit. So thank you, Rebecca, so much. This was really, really wonderful.
- [34:09]
Rebecca Seaver
Oh, you're so welcome. It was a pleasure for me. I was so excited to do this and I can't wait to hear it back.
- [34:18]
Cassidy Zachary
Dress listeners, if you are anything like me at the moment. Therapy has been helping me sort out my feelings in these rather uncertain times. And if you don't already have a regular therapy routine, sometimes wait list for an appointment can be multiple months long.
- [34:31]
April Callahan
And we know that therapy can help, but sometimes it isn't the whole answer. Which is why tachyotry is here to help. Takiatry gives you access to real psychiatric care with licensed clinicians who can diagnose and prescribe medication if it's right for you. It's a simple way to get effective treatment right from home.
- [34:48]
Cassidy Zachary
You'll meet with an experienced licensed psychiatrist who takes the time to understand what's going on, builds a personalized treatment plan, and can prescribe medication when it's right for you. Your care stays consistent and evidence based and they accept major insurers.
- [35:04]
April Callahan
Head to toky.com dressed and complete the short assessment to get matched with an in network psychiatrist in just a few minutes. That's tachiatry.com to get matched in minutes. Dress listeners. By now you all know that April and I are huge proponents of both sustainable and ethical fashion. Which is why we are so happy to partner with Quint. They have all the wardrobe staples covered. 100% organic cotton sweaters, premium denim made with stretch for all day comfort luxe cotton cashmere blends perfect for the changing seasons. Everything you need for a wardrobe that actually lasts.
- [35:40]
Cassidy Zachary
Quince works directly with safe ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen. So you're not paying for brand markup, just high quality clothing and home goods too. So from bedding and home goods to ethically and sustainably produced fashion, Quince is a carefully curated source for consciously produced things that we all need in our everyday lives.
- [36:01]
April Callahan
And I have to say, I'm such a big fan. I especially love their organic brushed cotton sheets, which I have in the most lovely color of fig. So what are you waiting for? Refresh your wardrobe with quince. Go to quince.com dressed for free shipping on your order and 365 days returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q U I-N-C-E.com trust to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com trust.
- [36:28]
Cassidy Zachary
Thank you Rebecca for taking us behind the scenes of Dolly's sparkling signature style and its evolution over all of these years.
- [36:36]
April Callahan
Yeah, and as a huge Dolly fan, this was such a treat for me in so many ways. But April, we have not actually had a chance yet to discuss if you have any favorite Dolly songs, movies or sartorial stylings you would like to share.
- [36:51]
Cassidy Zachary
Oh my gosh. This is so interesting because I was actually just listening to Dolly yesterday and digging through some of these kind of more obscure tracks, or at least in my world, more obscure tracks. And I was listening to her bluegrass album Yesterday, which was really interesting. Of course, my all time Dolly Parton film is the ever fabulous 9 to 5.
- [37:12]
April Callahan
Oh yeah.
- [37:13]
Cassidy Zachary
I mean murderous plot plots, camp fabulous 80s fashion. I mean, what's not to love?
- [37:20]
April Callahan
I love 9 to 5. I also love Steel Magnolias and then I really love Radio Talk, which is a little bit more of an obscure Dolly film, but no less fantastic. Been following her career for so many decades. Right. Basically my entire life. The woman is a force of nature. We didn't really get a chance to talk about that. All of her different business ventures, Dollywood, which I am remiss now not to have visited.
- [37:44]
Cassidy Zachary
But she also maybe we should do a dressed tour to Dollywood.
- [37:47]
April Callahan
That would be so amazing.
- [37:50]
Rebecca Seaver
So I'm in. Yeah.
- [37:52]
April Callahan
And I know I. I have to get there and then. But also she has so many, like recently released Netflix specials and movies and I'm here for all of it. All of her music, anything the woman does. I love her so much and Absolutely. Yeah. And this book is just such a beautiful testament to who she is in so many ways and dress listeners, you're just going to have to get your hands on a copy of this book because there is so much, as I just mentioned, that we did not cover and that includes her contemporary style, which is an egregious omission on my part because I focus so much on Dolly Parton's fashion history that I completely forgot to talk to Rebecca more about the evolution of Dolly style into the present day. I mean, we discussed it, but. And especially her style in the 20th century is largely reflective of a three decade long relationship with Steve Summers as her creative director.
- [38:44]
Cassidy Zachary
Steve oversees so many different elements of Dolly's visual artistry, from the album covers to the stage sets to the 300 plus ensembles Steve and his team create.
- [38:56]
Rebecca Seaver
For Dolly every year.
- [38:58]
Steve Summers
The reason that I feel like I am a good fit for her is, is because I always believe in whatever she's doing because I'm fortunate enough to see it at the beginning of its evolution. You know, she's like, I need you to read this book. I need you to listen to this, work on this because it's going to come up. We're going to end up doing something with these things eventually and be in the know now. She's very much a nurturer when it comes to giving you the information as you need it to help her get to where it's going to go. My job is not to plan the course of where Dolly's going. You know, she's driving a locomotive and I'm shoveling coal. I'm just going as fast as I can go to keep the engine going. I'm not the dreamer in chief, she is. She's the one who figures it out. And my job is just to keep us going every single time. She is very much in charge of where she wants to end up with the goal of the look. And then my job is just to get us there. I get to design for a lot of different people. They just all happen to be Dolly. Because I get Dolly Parton the singer, Dolly Parton the actress, Dolly Parton the philanthropist, Dolly Parton the theme park owner, Dolly Parton the book lady, Dolly Parton the character actors on tv. I get lots of different dollies and every one of them is drastically different. The goal is to just clear out obstacles so that she can show up and just be herself.
- [40:31]
Cassidy Zachary
And super fun fact, Cass. He is an fit alum just like you and I, so you can learn all about this in an interview with him in both the audio and also hard copy versions of the book, which of course we're going to link to in our show notes.
- [40:46]
April Callahan
Yes, and Dolly is still bringing the bling dress listeners. I mean, most recently at the super bowl halftime show where the woman rocks a rhinestoned Dallas Cowboy cheerleader's outfit, midriff bearing short shorts and all. And the woman is 78 years old, April. She is amazing and such a living lesson to us all about dressing and joy at any age. And in the book she actually talks a lot about one of her favorite phrases, to thine own self be true.
- [41:18]
Dolly Parton
I think you need to make friends with yourself. You need to be your own best friend. You need to know who you are. And there's that famous saying of mine is to find out who you are, do it on, you know, do it on purpose and with purpose, you know. Cause you really need to know who you are.
- [41:35]
April Callahan
She really encourages people to do and wear what makes them happy and no one else. Right? And that's a lesson that she has lived throughout her entire life and is so exhibited throughout the book. And lucky for us, what Dolly wears makes her fans happy too. And it's contagious. This woman is. I just, I love her so much. And I love Rebecca now too, for being such a loving and lovely extension of Dolly. And Rebecca is so significant and that they are preserving Dolly's legacy for future generations to come. So thank you Rebecca again.
- [42:08]
Cassidy Zachary
Yes, thank you Rebecca. And can we have an archive tour if we do a dressed Dollywood trip? Dress listeners, be sure and follow Rebecca's Instagram rebeccaann.seaver, where they often document their work with Dolly and the archive and where you can also follow Rebecca's other account at the Rhinestone Cabaret, which documents their drag and burlesque performance art.
- [42:34]
April Callahan
Well, that does it for us this week. Dress listeners, may you remember to follow Dolly's advice and one of her favorite phrases, to thine own self be true. Next time you get dressed, dress listeners, make sure you head over to our Instagram Rest podcast to check out all of our fabulous content connected to this week's episodes. The hashtags specifically connected to these two episodes are Dress 354 and Dress 355.
- [42:59]
Cassidy Zachary
And if you haven't already you're going to want to get your hands on a copy of the book behind the My Life and Rhinestones. We're going to provide a link for you to purchase the book from our dress bookshelf on bookshop.org where you'll find more than 120 of our favorite and podcast featured fashion history titles. We will also link to the audio version of the book, which is a companion to not an exact replica of the book. It features interviews with not just Dolly, but the many, many people that she has worked with over the years. And a lot of these people are people that she has credited with her success. So the book is in so many ways a love letter to all of them.
- [43:37]
April Callahan
If you're a Dolly Parton fan, you have to have to own this book. So dress listeners, we love hearing from you. So please email us@hellorusthistory.com which is of course our website where you can find information on all of our upcoming fashion history tours, classes and anything else we have for you this year. And let me just tell you dress listeners, there is so much more to come.
- [43:57]
Cassidy Zachary
Yes, and also guys, just a reminder that registration is open for my first class, the Great Designer Series Bureau of American Fashion's Innovators and icons, part one. That first class date is going to be April 6th and you can also head over to dressedhistory.com to sign up for and find out lots more information on my ongoing private fashion history tours of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City. These are well underway at this point. Cass. We've done many and it's super, super fun. I would love to see you all next time you're in New York. Dressed Listeners, as always, thank you so much for your continued support. More dressed coming your way on Wednesday. The History of Fashion is a production of Dressed Media. What did it take to survive an ancient siege? Why was the cult of Dionysus behind.
- [44:48]
Rebecca Seaver
So many slave revolts in ancient Rome?
- [44:51]
Cassidy Zachary
What's the tragic history and mythology behind Japan's most haunted ancient forest?
- [44:56]
Rebecca Seaver
We're Jen and Jenny from Ancient History Fangirl. Join us to explore ancient history and mythology from a fun, sometimes tipsy perspective.
- [45:06]
Cassidy Zachary
Find us at ancienthistoryfangirl.com or wherever you get your podcasts.