← Dressed: The History of Fashion
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- [00:01]
Cassidy Zachary
Yeah, sure thing.
- [00:02]
April Calliam
Hey, you sold that car yet?
- [00:04]
Jennifer K.
Yeah, sold it to Carvana.
- [00:06]
April Calliam
Oh, I thought you were selling to that guy.
- [00:09]
Jennifer K.
The guy who wanted to pay me in foreign currency, no interest over 36 months. Yeah, no. Carvana gave me an offer in minutes, picked it up and paid me on the spot. It was so convenient.
- [00:21]
Cassidy Zachary
Just like that?
- [00:22]
Jennifer K.
Yeah.
- [00:22]
April Calliam
No hassle?
- [00:23]
Jennifer K.
None.
- [00:24]
April Calliam
That is super convenient.
- [00:26]
Carvana Ad
Sell your car to Carvana and swap hassle for convenience. Pick up. These may apply.
- [00:30]
Cassidy Zachary
Dress the History of Fashion is a production of dress media. With over 8 billion people in the world, we all have one thing in common. Every day, we all get dressed.
- [00:45]
April Calliam
Welcome to Dressed the History of Fashion, a podcast that explores the who, what, when of why we wear. We are fashion historians and your hosts.
- [00:52]
Cassidy Zachary
Cassidy Zachary and April Calliam. Dress listeners, I cannot believe what I'm about to say, but today's episode is our penultimate episode of season seven of the podcast, meaning it is the second to last of our seventh year of making the show, which is totally wild.
- [01:10]
April Calliam
Thank you for defining that word for me because as our listeners probably know, April's vocabulary as, well, advanced, more advanced than mine. And I'm always telling you, you need to define things for me because I don't know them. But penultimate. Yes, this is wild. We are. I can't believe it's December for one. And yeah, this is our second to last episode. We have our last episode that will be coming your way next week, which is now a grand tradition of dress is our annual holiday gift exchange where April and I gift, quote unquote each other items from the annals of fashion history. And April has way more fun with this than me. And so I'm gonna be a little cheeky this year, April, and try to up my game and see if I can surprise you. So we'll see. It's always super fun. And we love ending our seasons with this because it's just a nice ringer in of the holidays. And then we go on our annual hiatus for making new episodes for a few weeks. We can take a little break over the holidays ourselves.
- [02:14]
Cassidy Zachary
And this is one of the reasons why I thought it actually might be nice to hear from you all before we sign off for season seven. So today we're going to bring you a listener mail episode with some fun queries, comments, I mean, even a little bit of our original research on our part. So we would like to start off with a listener mail that Cassidy and I have been chomping at the bit to get to over the past couple of months because it's this incredibly touching story. And as soon as it hit our mailbox, Cass, you texted me and you said, oh, we either need to make this a what's in your closet episode or listener mail episode. And I was like, I have already bookmarked it.
- [02:54]
April Calliam
Yes. And listeners, we have said it so many times on the show, but we both actually do read each and every email that you send to us. It's just us too, but we make that a priority. We don't always have time to respond to all of them because it's just us too, as I just said. But please keep sending them to us. We love hearing from you. We really do read them, we appreciate them, and we would not be here seven years later, seven seasons later, 500 plus episodes without all of you. So thank you so much.
- [03:25]
Cassidy Zachary
Absolutely. Okay, so our first listener mail today comes to us from Jennifer K. She wrote to us a couple of months ago the following hello. My 83 year old mother has a dress from her time modeling for Shame Manguin in Paris in 1960-1961. She has dementia and my sister and I are determining what to do with this dress. We should be so grateful for any guidance as we feel it should be preserved. Here are some photos. The first two show my mother and the third is her now with the dress she has.
- [03:59]
April Calliam
And the photos Jennifer includes are two newspaper clippings featuring her mother modeling for the house of Manguin in Paris. Both are in French and one of the articles is entitled translated to English of course. The curtain rises on spring fashions and the woman and the other features for his mom wearing a manguin dress bearing the title the Samurai silhouette. And presumably the wide flat collar of the dress takes its inspiration from samurai armor. And then the final photo Jennifer included was a photograph of her mother holding up a manguin dress which still resides in her closet.
- [04:35]
Cassidy Zachary
And it is a black and white beauty of a dress. It's a strapless cocktail gown and the bodice of the dress has ruching all over it. It's a ruched black satin and the skirt appears to be a bit of a bubble silhouette and meaning that the hem is gathered back up inside the skirt creating this bouffant bubble. There's a sweet little belt at the waist. It appears to be made of a very luxurious black grosgrain ribbon and there's a crystal button or bobble at the center of the belt. It's very chic and it's very much in keeping with that early 60s high fashion silhouette that was Omnipresent in French haute couture.
- [05:15]
April Calliam
Which begs the question, really, what is the story of this Paris based fashion house of Manguin? And while April and I have both seen references to this French house in the American fashion press over the years, to be honest, neither of us knew much about Manguin before Jennifer's email arrived in our inbox. Which was one of the reasons we, we were so keen to feature this listener, Meryl, because we love learning right alongside our listeners.
- [05:40]
Cassidy Zachary
Yeah, so I, I definitely went into research mode and the first thing I did was I pulled out some of my books that are like these. Bigger, broader, secondary resources. Overviews of women designers, overview of haute couturiers, overviews of the French fashion industry in general. And you know what I found, Cass?
- [05:58]
April Calliam
What did you find?
- [05:59]
Cassidy Zachary
A whole bunch of nothing, like, zip, zero, zilternata. I knew that Manguin was more on this kind of like, obscure tip today, but it was quite well known at the time because it appears quite often in the pages of both French and American magazines. From the fashion magazines, of course, from the 1930s, 40s and 50s. So aside from seeing it in these primary sources from these older magazines from decades past, I really had nothing to go on. Which, to be honest, was what I was hoping would happen. I really did want to have no other option but to nerd out and return to those very sources like Vogue and Harper's Bazaar and Women's Wear Daily and the New York Times, in order to like, research and flesh out this snapshot of one of these couture houses, which were important in their own day, but now have fallen into obscurity.
- [06:48]
April Calliam
Yes, and what we have unearthed is in no way exhaustive, but it is a rather Parisian tale of both art and fashion. And culling all of the sources together, we learned that the house of Manguin was, was founded by Madame Lucille Manguin, who was born on November 13, 1905, to Jeanne and Henri Manguin, the noted Fauvist painter and a close friend and peer of both the artist Henri Matisse and the fashion designer and art collector Paul Pore. And McGuin's work likewise pushed the boundaries of color theory. And in addition to landscapes, Henri Manguin's wife and children were frequently his subject matter.
- [07:28]
Cassidy Zachary
And I could not find out much about Lucille Le Guin's childhood. But it goes without saying that creativity was deeply valued in their household, her father being really, truly one of the most cutting edge painters of that era's contemporary art scene in Paris. And we Learned from a 1948 Womenswear Daily article that the House of Mengwein opened its doors in 1927. So this would have been when Lucille was a about 21 or 22. So she was not very old when, when this all went down. And how, when and where she received her fashion education, I cannot say. But knowing what we already do, Cass, I'm going to go out on a limb here and presume that she probably spent some time training in the ateliers of another couture house, or couture house is plural, as these types of apprenticeships were very foundational to how the French haute couture industry operated at this time. And given the fact that her father was incredibly close friends with Paul Pafayer, it could be possibly him. I have no evidence of this. This is just conjecture. But I did also find this one quote from Lucille Manguin admitting, quote, her creations have always been influenced by Poiret in the domain of color, end quote. And then her skill as a colorist was also confirmed in this other newspaper article I found in a French Tunisian newspaper from around that same time, which calls her a born colorist.
- [08:58]
April Calliam
And the limited press in American sources on Manguin during the 1920s and 30s really paints this picture of the house as doing a lot of innovative sportswear, including golf ensembles with detachable sleeves. And interestingly enough, sportswear was also how Elsa Schiaparelli got first got her start in fashion at the urging of Paul Pourret, also. So, and this was the exact same year Manguen was founded in 19, or the House of Manguen was founded in 1927. So these ladies were really tapping into the same zeitgeist of the era with these types of comfortable clothing for sport or everyday wear. And that was desired by the bold and increasingly independent women of the late 1920s and into the 30s.
- [09:42]
Cassidy Zachary
Lucille McGuin was the head designer for the house. Her husband, Andre Martinez, ran the business operations. Her brother, Pierre Manguin, was, depending on the source that you read, because there's some conflicting information here. He was either the director of the house or he was in charge of sales during the 1930s. The House of Manguin would go on to establish itself as this sort of smaller but well respected player in the French fashion industry and quote, devoted itself exclusively to private clientele, well known in France, but maybe lesser known in the U.S. in the U.S. it was seen as a, quote, young and comparatively inexpensive firm whose models were bought by top New York houses for resale to private customers who liked the label. So basically they were going over and buying the garments and just bringing them back to the United States and then moving into the 1940s. Coverage on the Hassamanguin in the French fashion press indicates that the house, most likely the cast, remained open during World War II amid the Nazi occupation of Paris. Of course, many couture houses, the many fashion brands did, because they. It wasn't just about keeping their own businesses open. It was about keeping the economy of France functioning, employed. Yeah, exactly. People fed. And also, too, one of these 1940s sources that I read from during the war noted that her salons were, quote, dazzlingly decorated with paintings by her father, Henri Maguin, as well as Raoul Dufy. Yet again, another connection back to Paul Pare. I'm just saying Pare keeps popping his head up in this.
- [11:19]
April Calliam
Yeah. And these are. And people really ran together in these artistic circles. They stayed in touch a lot of the time. So.
- [11:25]
Cassidy Zachary
Yes.
- [11:26]
April Calliam
And so 1948, 1949. So post World War II, we see an increased amount of press. We see an increased amount of press on the house, which detailed its expansion and its relocation in Paris to 12 Rue Francois Premier. And a fun fact, especially for any of of you who know the city well. The location at 12 Rue Francois Premier is directly across the street from where the Galerie Dior, or the Dior Museum in Paris is located today. And that was also the Dior museum is where Dior opened his house in 1947. It's the original location. So in 1948, the House of Manguin moved and hired additional staff, including the Comtesse d'aydin, who was formerly associated with the House of Schiaparelli. As the head of sales, the Comtesse was charged with expanding the house by liaising with buyers from different department stores and copy houses who wish to license Manguin designs. And things seem to be going pretty well for the house during the first part of the 1950s, until a headline.
- [12:26]
Cassidy Zachary
In the French newspaper Le Monde tells us that the House of Manguin gave up their official designation as a haute couture house in 1956. I'm not exactly sure why. And by 1961, the house closed its doors permanently and its former workrooms, this is really interesting. Were taken over by none other than the brand new, newly minted, not even open yet for business, house of Yves Saint Laurent. So, Cass, it seems that Jennifer's mom was right there modeling for Mangwin around this same time, in its final years of 1960, 1961. And of course, this is a really pivotal period for fashion history because we're beginning to see the changing of the guard, so to speak, as interest in haute couture declines in favor of the rise of ready to wear. So YSL taking over the former home of this couture house to build his own brand, which later would become very much associated with the establishment of early ready to wear brands. It's rather appreciate in terms of things to come.
- [13:29]
April Calliam
Okay, so that's a rather brief summary of the history of the House of Manguin. And there is clearly more work to be done on this. And perhaps some of our listeners out there have, and if so, shoot us an email. We'd love to hear about what you have to say. And of course we will share that with Jennifer. And that actually doesn't April completely answer Jennifer's question about what she and her sister should do with her mom's dress in terms of its preservation? And really this is a pretty straightforward answer. Looking at the photos, it seems like it should be kept in an acid free garment box and stored flat.
- [14:03]
Cassidy Zachary
Yes, especially because with these strapless garments, even in your strapless garments, that comes with those little support straps for the purpose of hanging it, over time the weight of the garment will become too much. The straps will either break or where they're sewn to the textile itself, that can shatter where they're sewn in. So Jennifer, if you and your sister would like to keep the dress in your family and preserve it for posterity, we would really recommend checking out the offerings of archival garment boxes. And two of my favorite places for that are Gaylord archival or university products. They have different sizes, I think I looked it up and they, one of them was cost you about $55 or something. And then we would also recommend using acid free tissue paper to line the box and kind of cradle the garment where it's needed. And you might even go so far as to consider padding out the skirt from the inside and the bodice a little bit with this acid free tissue because that's going to help it retain a little bit of its three dimensional shape. We have to remember garments are designed to be inhabited by bodies. So when you store them flat, giving them a little support like that helps to not strain the textile while it's in flat storage.
- [15:16]
April Calliam
Yeah. And once it's in its box, you'll want to keep it somewhere in low light and with relatively stable temperature and humidity. Yes, friends, the addict of your house isn't necessarily your friend. For storing textiles and textile based objects. Nor is the basement sunlight is truly your enemy and we have all seen how fabrics left in the sun for extended periods of time will become bleached by sunlight exposure alone. So anyways, Jennifer, we hope that was helpful. Thank you so much for sharing your mom's story and giving us an excuse to do some research on a fashion house that we knew very little about. And on that note, we will take a short sponsor break. More listener mail when we come back.
- [16:00]
Cassidy Zachary
Today's episode is sponsored by Acorns Dressed listeners. The New year is upon us and with the annual refresh of our calendars, so too comes our personal list of New Year's resolutions. And if you're anything like me, every year that includes contributing more to my investment and savings accounts. But as the months go by and expenses arise and opportunities appear, I don't always meet my savings goals.
- [16:24]
April Calliam
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- [16:36]
Cassidy Zachary
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- [16:50]
April Calliam
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- [17:05]
Cassidy Zachary
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- [17:39]
April Calliam
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- [17:54]
Cassidy Zachary
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- [18:05]
April Calliam
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- [18:19]
Cassidy Zachary
Yeah, sure thing.
- [18:21]
April Calliam
Hey, you sold that car yet?
- [18:23]
Jennifer K.
Yeah, sold it to Carvana.
- [18:24]
April Calliam
Oh, I thought you were selling to that guy.
- [18:27]
Jennifer K.
The guy who wanted to pay me in foreign currency, no interest, over 36 months. Yeah, no. Carvana gave me an offer in minutes, picked it up and paid me on the spot. It was so convenient.
- [18:39]
Cassidy Zachary
Just like that.
- [18:40]
Jennifer K.
Yeah.
- [18:41]
April Calliam
No hassle.
- [18:42]
Jennifer K.
None.
- [18:42]
April Calliam
That is super convenient.
- [18:44]
Carvana Ad
Sell your car to Carvana and swap hassle for convenience. Pick up. These may apply.
- [18:52]
Cassidy Zachary
Welcome back, dressed listeners. Cass, what do you have for us next?
- [18:56]
April Calliam
Okay, our next listener mail is in response to something from one of our most popular episodes which originally aired in 2019, entitled the History of Glitter. Listener Susan P. Wrote to us all the way back in January of this year and to say, hi, I love the podcast. I enjoy listening out of order. Your pod about glitter interest interested me and you mentioned your uncertainty that there was glitter used in World War II, which is true. All those aluminum toothpaste tubes collected for the war effort were made into strips and dropped from planes to float down as anti radar countermeasures. See Winston Churchill's Closing the Ring, which is volume five of his History of the Second World War. He called it quote unquote window, but its purpose was to obscure. It may be the only recycled glitter in the history of glitter. Thanks. So thanks for so many great episodes.
- [19:49]
Cassidy Zachary
Oh, well, thank you, Susan, for your email and thank you for listening to the episodes. Out of order. Yeah, recycled glitter is a rarity. Recycled, I'm saying here because we are proud to say that eco friendly and biodegradable glitter is not a rarity. It is now widely available on the mass market and I've said it a couple times, I think on the show now that it's a whole thing in New York at clubs like burlesque clubs and different things that use glitter in performances. Oftentimes it will make a point to let everybody know that it is biodegradable and that their business is not glitter bombing our planet. Well, speaking of things that sparkle, our next listener mail comes from the UK Where Alexandra wrote to us a few months ago with an Instagram account to follow.
- [20:38]
April Calliam
Yes, she wrote. Hey Casting April, I've been a long time fan of Dressed ever since the beginning of the Pandemic and I've since managed to catch up on every episode of your podcast. You guys really do a fantastic job. Yes, thank you. And I wanted to give you guys a recommendation. There is an Instagram account called @MoonHoney Jewelry that is so much fun to follow. Melissa is a goldsmith who posts almost daily videos about ancient historical jewelry. She shares information on ancient jewelry making techniques, the materials, the people who wore the jewelry, some pieces that are ancient but look modern, etc. I think she'd be a great person to have on the podcast or at least give a little follow and shout out. Anyway, looking forward to the latest episode and hoping that one day I'll be able to make it on one of your trips. Maybe nyc. I did my own little dressed inspired tour of Paris back in March. Lots of love Alexandra from the United Kingdom. Thank you Alexandra.
- [21:38]
Cassidy Zachary
Yeah, and I have to say this was an amazing recommendation. I did not already follow them. I have so much enjoyed following Melissa's content and I've loved learning so much more about jewelry history which I didn't really know a ton about. And she also oftentimes includes art history content in her posts, which as we all know, my background is first as an art historian, so it's a super fun account to follow. Excellent suggestion, Alexandra. Dress endorsed. That's Moonhoney Jewelry for Melissa's unique expertise.
- [22:13]
April Calliam
Yes.
- [22:14]
Cassidy Zachary
Okay Cass, should we do one there?
- [22:18]
April Calliam
Yes, let's do it. And April, I'm not even sure if you've seen this one yet because it just came into our inbox this morning and it's about an episode that we just released on Wednesday so it's hot off the press. And Emma C. Wrote to us and said Just wanted to drop a note to tell you how much I loved the toddler safety episode. I am one of a team of people who make sure the children's wear at our brand is safe and legal. We had much fun discussing the items you covered and we are trying to go see the pudding at the V and a much nerdy fun was had considering which of these things would be considered safe today. So nice to hear something on children's wear. We usually get completely forgotten about on fashion podcasts. Thank you.
- [22:59]
Cassidy Zachary
Aw, thank you Emma. We appreciate this so much. So basically she listened to the episode and then emailed us the same day. Yeah, this was actually a really fun episode to research. And friends, check out our reels this week for all of the crazy imagery that we referenced in the episode. That imagery is actually what started this ball rolling in terms of the subject matter. And Cass, I can't believe this is really nearly the end of season seven of this show. I know that both you and I are very much looking forward to having a little annual hiatus from creating new episodes. We do them twice a week, friends, so it's no small feat. Now, this doesn't necessarily mean that Cass and I aren't creating new content. We still are just not new episode content. We might be creating things for our new class as well as possibly contributing to a new book project.
- [23:51]
April Calliam
Yes, we are going to try to take some time off, but in the meantime, before the podcast comes back on, we will have launched our new class which is on the golden age of Haute couture. And actually that will be coming your way next week just in time for the holidays. To register. Yes, to register and just in time for the holidays if you want to gift it to yourself or someone you love. But yes. So we will be announcing that class next week as promised and you can register for what is sure to be a very a very fun and insightful class. It's going to be a two parter. April and I are going to co teach it and we're going to do a little bit of a deep dive into this golden age of the haute couture. As we went. As we briefly mentioned in the house when we were talking about the House of Manguin, the 1950s is the golden age because it's the last age of the haute couture. Things will change dramatically with the rise of ready to wear in the 1960s. And who knows, maybe we'll follow that class up with a 1960s course.
- [24:45]
Cassidy Zachary
That is your area of specialty also too, friends, we keep saying this, that we're going to announce our dressed fashion history tour of Paris soon. We have had so many meetings about this this week. So we are, I don't even want to say we're knee deep or waist deep in the planning process. We are neck deep in this planning process. You can shoot us an email if you would like to get on the first to know list. We already have dozens of people on it already. That trip is going to sell out absolutely for sure, pretty quickly. If you want to be on that list to be the first to know, shoot us an email@hellodressedhistory.com and dressedhistory.com is also our website where you can find out lots more information about our upcoming classes, tours, or basically anything else that we're up to.
- [25:33]
April Calliam
Yes, and that does also include, as somebody else mentioned in listener mail, a New York City day Tours are coming your way, friends, in the spring, probably in April. Again, we're finalizing a lot of things, but we have to get to New York April to see the Real Close Real Lives, Real Lives, Real Close exhibition and New York Historical Society before that closes. And then also our dear friend Colleen Hill, who is now the Senior Curator at the FIT Museum and has an exhibition opening on the Cabinet of Curiosities.
- [26:05]
Cassidy Zachary
So yeah, fashion's role in the Cabinet of Curiosities, which is the result of her PhD research.
- [26:13]
April Calliam
Yes.
- [26:13]
Cassidy Zachary
Also speaking of New York friends, my fashion history tours of the Met are back. They were on pause for a little bit while I was in Paris and a lot of you wrote to us asking why there were no available dates that you could book. And that's because I was not in New York. But I am back now. So you can also head over to DressedHistory.com to sign up either on Tuesday mornings with me at the Met or Friday evening tours. And then once again, I can do tours for your group or organization at other times. You just need to connect with me in advance to get that all set up. And you can email me@hello dressedhistory.com for.
- [26:48]
April Calliam
That, which is of course our email address. If you want to pop us a line, say hello. Send us some listener mail listener mail.
- [26:55]
Cassidy Zachary
For 2025 with that little tease. I think it does it for us today. Dressed listeners, may you consider how learning about the history of fashion has impacted the way you look at your wardrobe next time you get dressed.
- [27:08]
April Calliam
And if you would like visual content connected to each week's episodes, follow us on Instagram restorepodcast and you'll definitely want to check out the Instagram content for this week in relationship to Wednesday's episode. Lots of fun reels coming your way on that. And of course, as we mentioned, the holidays are just around the corner, so check out more than 150 of our favorite fashion history titles on our dress bookshelf@bookshop.org shop dress or at the link in our show notes. Send your loved ones your wish list or buy for someone you love, including yourself.
- [27:41]
Cassidy Zachary
Love dress but want to skip the ads? Consider subscribing to the ad free version of the show for just $3 a month. You can find a link to do so in our show notes as well. As always, thank you for your continued support. More dressed coming your way next week. Dress? The History of Fashion is a production of Dressed Media.
- [28:06]
Yeah, sure thing.
- [28:08]
April Calliam
Hey, you sold that car yet?
- [28:10]
Jennifer K.
Yeah, sold it to Carvana.
- [28:12]
April Calliam
Oh, I thought you were selling to that guy.
- [28:14]
Jennifer K.
The guy who wanted to pay me in foreign currency. No interest over 36 months. Yeah, no. Carvana gave me an offer in minutes, picked it up and paid me on the spot. It was so convenient.
- [28:27]
Cassidy Zachary
Just like that?
- [28:27]
Jennifer K.
Yep.
- [28:28]
April Calliam
No hassle?
- [28:29]
Jennifer K.
None.
- [28:29]
April Calliam
That is super convenient.
- [28:31]
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