Mayor of Fashion Town, an interview with Fern Mallis

Summary

Dressed: The History of Fashion

Episode: Mayor of Fashion Town, an Interview with Fern Mallis
Release Date: June 27, 2025

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Introduction to Fern Mallis

In this special episode titled "Mayor of Fashion Town," hosts Cassie Zachary and April Callahan sit down with Fern Mallis, a pivotal figure in the fashion industry known for shaping New York Fashion Week and influencing global fashion events. Mallis, often referred to as the "godmother of American fashion," shares insights from her six-decade-long career, detailing her journey from her early days in Brooklyn to her influential role in organizing fashion weeks worldwide.

Early Life and Entry into Fashion

Fern Mallis recounts her upbringing in Brooklyn before its transformation into a cultural hub. “[...] growing up in suburbia with a backyard pool and garden, yet Manhattan always felt like the true city to me” (04:48). Her early exposure to fashion stemmed from her family's involvement in the garment industry—her father worked with scarves, and uncles were involved in textiles and women's sportswear. This environment fostered her passion, leading her to study fashion design at James Madison High School, where she won the fashion design medal.

Mallis credits her entry into the industry to winning a guest editor competition with Mademoiselle magazine. “[...] I was one of 20 students selected to be a guest editor in 1969,” she explains (08:34). This opportunity allowed her to work closely with influential figures like Sylvia Plath and Joan Didion, setting the stage for her future endeavors.

Founding New York Fashion Week

Mallis delves into her pivotal role in redefining New York Fashion Week (NYFW) in the early 1990s. While Eleanor Lambert pioneered press weeks in the 1940s, Mallis took the reins when these initiatives had dwindled. “[...] reinvent New York Fashion Week as we know it today” (03:58). She emphasizes the complexity behind the glamour of fashion shows, highlighting the immense coordination and creativity involved.

She recounts the challenges faced during the initial days, including ensuring participation from top designers like Calvin Klein. “[...] Calvin, you want to answer that? And he came up to the podium and said, yes, I'm going to be there” (26:02). This collaboration was crucial in establishing the tents at Bryant Park, which became the iconic setting for NYFW.

Evolution and Impact of Fashion Week

Under Mallis's leadership, NYFW transformed into a significant industry event, attracting editors, retailers, and global attention. “[...] it was an enormous boon for the industry” (30:11). She highlights how the unified structure of Fashion Week facilitated the launching of numerous designers and models, effectively serving as a catalyst for careers and fostering a global fashion community.

Mallis also touches upon the transition of NYFW under IMG's management, which shifted the focus towards commercial interests and sponsorships. “[...] when IMG took over, it became much more of a business” (34:41). This change introduced a more corporate approach, altering the original creative and collaborative spirit of the event.

Global Consulting and Expanding Fashion Weeks

Beyond New York, Mallis expanded her influence by consulting on international fashion weeks. She played a significant role in establishing fashion weeks in India, Berlin, Australia, Moscow, and other cities, helping these events gain global prominence. “[...] I fell in love with India the minute I arrived” (37:07). Her efforts in Mumbai’s Kalakmi Fashion Week, for instance, have been pivotal in recognizing India as a major fashion capital.

Mallis describes these international projects as “pearls,” previously strung together by IMG but now facing fragmentation as fashion weeks proliferate globally. “[...] that necklace broke a long time ago” (40:30).

Fashion Icons Series and Personal Anecdotes

Mallis shares her involvement in the "Fashion Icons" series at the 92nd Street Y, a project that began 15 years ago. This series features in-depth interviews with renowned fashion figures, offering a personal glimpse into their lives beyond their collections. “[...] I don't want a whole bunch of press photos. I want you with your parents, you're with your siblings” (50:12).

A memorable story involves her persistent efforts to include Bill Cunningham, the legendary New York Times photographer, in the series. “[...] I literally, I bugged him for years” (46:14). Their eventual collaboration resulted in one of the most epic interviews, showcasing Mallis's dedication to capturing authentic narratives within the fashion world.

The Future of American Fashion

Addressing current challenges, Mallis discusses the precarious state of American fashion, citing the decline in domestic manufacturing and the impact of tariffs. “[...] Only anywhere between 2 to 3% of the clothing that is purchased in the US today is actually made here domestically” (53:20). She expresses concern over the sustainability of the industry amid rising costs and global dependencies.

Mallis emphasizes the importance of sustainability and the shift towards digital platforms, noting that technology has democratized fashion entrepreneurship. “[...] you can be a designer anywhere in the world these days and you don't need brick and mortar anymore” (41:27).

Mentorship and Future Projects

Looking ahead, Mallis is mentoring the next generation of designers, including her nine-year-old protege, Max Alexander. “[...] he's the cutest, most talented young man I've ever met” (58:44). Her collaboration on a caftan design with Max exemplifies her commitment to nurturing youthful creativity in fashion.

She also mentions an upcoming documentary titled "Godmother of Fashion," set to release in 2026, which chronicles her extensive career and influence on the fashion industry. “[...] somebody coined the term godmother of fashion, and that seems to be what's holding it all together” (51:53).

Conclusion

Fern Mallis's interview on "Dressed: The History of Fashion" offers a comprehensive look into her monumental contributions to the fashion industry. From revitalizing New York Fashion Week to fostering global fashion events and mentoring future designers, Mallis's legacy is deeply intertwined with the evolution of modern fashion. Her reflections on the industry's challenges and future provide valuable insights for both enthusiasts and professionals alike.

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Notable Quotes

• Fern Mallis on Integrating into NYFW:

  “Calvin, you want to answer that? And he came up to the podium and said, yes, I'm going to be there.”
  26:02

• On the Impact of Fashion Week:

  “It was an enormous boon for the industry.”
  30:11

• Addressing the Future Challenges:

  “Only anywhere between 2 to 3% of the clothing that is purchased in the US today is actually made here domestically.”
  53:20

• On Sustainability and Modern Entrepreneurship:

  “You can be a designer anywhere in the world these days and you don't need brick and mortar anymore.”
  41:27

• Personal Anecdote with Bill Cunningham:

  “He said, I'll give you a new outfit. And I said, Bill, I just came home from India with this this morning. There's no way you can buy me another one.”
  49:31

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Timestamps Reference

• <a name="timestamp04:48"></a>[04:48]
• <a name="timestamp08:34"></a>[08:34]
• <a name="timestamp03:58"></a>[03:58]
• <a name="timestamp26:02"></a>[26:02]
• <a name="timestamp30:11"></a>[30:11]
• <a name="timestamp34:41"></a>[34:41]
• <a name="timestamp37:07"></a>[37:07]
• <a name="timestamp40:30"></a>[40:30]
• <a name="timestamp46:14"></a>[46:14]
• <a name="timestamp50:12"></a>[50:12]
• <a name="timestamp53:20"></a>[53:20]
• <a name="timestamp41:27"></a>[41:27]
• <a name="timestamp58:44"></a>[58:44]
• <a name="timestamp51:53"></a>[51:53]
• <a name="timestamp49:31"></a>[49:31]

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This in-depth conversation with Fern Mallis reveals the intricate dynamics of the fashion industry and the significant role Mallis has played in its evolution. Her experiences offer a blend of historical perspective and forward-thinking insights, making this episode a valuable listen for anyone interested in the tapestry of fashion history.

Transcript

[Fern Malice]

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[April Callahan]

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[Cassie Zachary]

Welcome to Dressed, the History of Fashion, a podcast that explores the who, what, when of why we wear. We are friends, fashion historians and your.

[April Callahan]

Hosts, Cassie Zachary and April Callahan, dress listeners. As a fashion history podcast, it's an occasion few and far between when we have contemporary fashion designers, movers, shakers, models, et cetera on the show. There are more than a few podcasts out there that cover the global contemporary fashion world quite well. So Cass and I's general guideline on this is that we invite living legends only on the show in terms of contemporary designers.

[Cassie Zachary]

Which means that if we are issuing that caveat for today's episode, you are in for an extra special treat. The rare exception Undressed, when our guest has quite literally shaped not only the history of fashion fashion, but also continues to do so into its present and, of course, its future.

[April Callahan]

And I just want to say here that looking in from the outside, fashion can appear to be an extremely glamorous industry to work in. And sometimes it is, right? But the flip side of that coin is actually the true definition of this term glamour, which for our purposes today, I'm going to go with the Merriam Webster's definition, which is, quote, an exciting and often illusory attractiveness, meaning that it might not always be what it appears to be.

[Cassie Zachary]

That's right, listeners, because the clothes, the Runway shows, and the celebrities seated in the front row at fashion weeks don't just magically glamour themselves into existence. Rather, it is the result of millions of people globally coming together in a sort of symbiotic dance that involves not only creativity and hard work, but also a ton of coordination.

[April Callahan]

Today's guest might just be one of the 20th century's great conjurers of said fashion magic. And Fern Malice joins us today, today to speak about her career, which spans six decades of shaping, supporting, and championing first American fashion, and then later turning her expertise towards developing fashion weeks all around the globe.

[Cassie Zachary]

The fashion press has often cited Fern as the founder of New York Fashion Week, but as she acknowledges today, there's a bit of nuance to that. Eleanor Lambert, who was the subject of an episode back in 2020, was actually the first to organize week long fashion presentations by American designers known as press weeks, starting in the 1940s. But fast forward 50 years later to the early 1990s, and that sort of industry wide consolidation and coordination of fashion shows had fallen by the wayside. Eleanor Lambert, for her part, was in her 90s when our guest today stepped into Lambert's footsteps to not only helm the council of the Fashion Designers of America, but more importantly, reinvent New York Fashion Week as we know it today. And with that, we welcome the quote, godmother of American fashion and mayor of fashion town, Fern Malice, to the show.

[April Callahan]

Fern, thank you so much for being here with us on this rather gloomy rainy day in New York City.

[Fern Malice]

I'm happy to be there.

[April Callahan]

Yeah. I don't know if you recall because I know that you go to hundreds events a year, but we actually met last year.

[Fern Malice]

Probably hundreds events a month.

[April Callahan]

Yeah, exactly. We met at a very fancy party at Lyndhurst Mansion. Jeffrey Banks was there. We were all sat at the same table. And it was also raining that night.

[Fern Malice]

Yeah. Dan Sheffey organized that.

[April Callahan]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Nice to see you again.

[Fern Malice]

Thank you. Same here.

[April Callahan]

So I happen to know that you grew up in New York City. And I am always so enamored with my friends who grew up in New York. And I'm constantly asking them about what all of this access was like at their fingertips at such an impressionable age. And I would love to hear a little bit about that from you and about your childhood growing up in nyc.

[Fern Malice]

Okay. I grew up in Brooklyn, and that was before Brooklyn was the coolest place on the planet. It was a very different Brooklyn. It was like growing up in suburbia. It wasn't the thick and middle of midtown Manhattan. You know, we had had a house and there was a. A small pool in the backyard and a nice garden and. And it was lovely. But I did enjoy going into the city. Manhattan was always the city, even though the five boroughs are essentially the city. And I'd go with my dad any day that I had off from school, any holiday, and we would take the bus from where we lived in Mill Basin, which was on South Brooklyn by Jamaica Bay, not far from, I don't know, Floyd Bennett Airfield and places like that. And we take the bus to the subway and then take the subway into New York. Or once in a blue moon, he would drive for some reason, and we'd drive into the city. And I loved being in Manhattan. And I also. I had a lot of good friends on my street that we were all best friends with. But I will say that I did somehow take more advantage of the city than any of them did. And my mother was a huge lover of Broadway, so we went to the theater a lot. Every time they saw something great, she'd buy more tickets and go back and take me and my sisters and sometimes take the neighbors and our friends to the theater. We did take art classes at the Brooklyn Museum. So we took advantage of that kind of culture that the city had to offer and really enjoyed New York. And then when I was in high school, I had summer jobs, which were just called summer jobs. They weren't called interns or anything. And I worked at Simplicity Patterns in Manhattan.

[April Callahan]

Oh, wow. Interesting.

[Fern Malice]

I worked at a store that was called Orbex.

[April Callahan]

Oh, yes, of course.

[Fern Malice]

34Th Street. And it was an extraordinary store because they were the only store that, at that time, when I was growing up, would bring in the couture collections from Paris, and they would knock them off, and you would see the real couture and their knockoffs on the Runway that they did. I was mesmerized by that. But that was probably my first fashion shows, actually seeing the shows at Orbach's.

[April Callahan]

Yeah. This actually leads me to another question that we have. Sometimes we ask of our guests who are professionally involved in the fashion industry, and that is, what is your first memory of fashion?

[Fern Malice]

My father worked in the scarf industry, so that was an early memory of mine, seeing the women in the art department drawing every fine detail of a silk scarf. My uncle worked in textiles, and another uncle, his other brother, worked in women's sportswear. So that's when I got comfortable in the garment center, going to their spaces and meeting them all for lunch when I'd come in with my dad. But I don't really have a specific aha moment that this was it. I studied fashion design in high school. I went to James Madison High School in Brooklyn, Proud alumna of the school that Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Chuck Schumer went to. And I did win the fashion design medal in high school. My fashion memories are all over the place.

[April Callahan]

It's in your blood. Really? Truly. So I saw an interview where you happened to mention that despite the fact that you did say, study fashion in high school, that how you really entered the industry was by, quote, unquote, winning a contest. Could you tell our listeners about that?

[Fern Malice]

It's absolutely true. I, in high, in college, I joined the Mademoiselle magazine College Board. And Mademoiselle at the time was, I think, the best magazine Conde Nest put out. It was really for intelligent young women. It was not just about fashion. It was about literature and poetry and photography and all the different creative disciplines. And they had a contest for many years that was called the Guest editor Competition. And that is something that evolved through this College Board. In the College Board, you would just fill out an application in the magazine and send it in. None of us had computers or cell phones or anything. It was in the late 60s, and I became a College Board member. And the College Board members got an envelope every month, a nice envelope or package in the mail. And it was samples and it was things that their advertisers were asking them about. We became a focus group, getting the college girls opinion on everything that they were doing. And if you wanted to move up into the higher rank of the College Board, you would submit a project, whether it was something, if you were in art or photography or fashion, whatever your discipline was. I was studying graphics and communication art. And so I designed a direct mail piece as if I was sending to somebody to become a subscriber to Mademoiselle. And I was one of 20 students from around the country that was selected to be a guest editor in 1969. And if that contest existed today, it would be a reality TV show. There'd be 20 girls in some high rise apartment in New York fighting for the job when they graduate and fighting for the date and for the hot guy that they set us all up with, with parties. And we be. We were then treated like royalty for a month. Lived in the Barbizon Hotel, nice, legendary women's hotel, which doesn't exist any longer. It's now a residence and a Equinox Gym. But it was an extraordinary experience. And we went on a week's trip. Everybody, every guest editor group traveled for a portion of the month. And we went to Israel. And I skipped my college graduation, which was at the University of Buffalo, because I needed to come to be part of the whole month's program for Mademoiselle. And it was a remarkable, extraordinary experience. And I was. When it was over, we helped edit what Was called the. Not the September, but the August issue, the Back to College issue, which in my days, they were back to college departments in all the stores. And people would buy new clothing to go back to school. Now you just buy another hoodie and you're dressed for the season. So in any case, I traveled to Europe that summer, which was what everybody did when they graduated college. And then when I came back, my mom said, mademoiselle's been calling. And they offered me a job. And so I was the only one of my group that was offered a full time job.

[April Callahan]

Oh, wow, that's amazing. And this guest editorship, you joined some rather illustrious company, historically speaking, in terms of people and writers and movers and shakers that were also guest editors in the past. I know Sylvia Plath off the top of my head, and I know there's others.

[Fern Malice]

Sylvia Plath, Joan Didion, Betsy Johnson, Peggy Noonan, who was a speechwriter and journalist. Really stellar group of people through the years.

[April Callahan]

Big thinkers.

[Fern Malice]

It's too bad that doesn't exist anymore.

[April Callahan]

What came next after your time, after Mademoiselle, you were there for a few years?

[Fern Malice]

Yes, I was there for. I've stayed for six years. My job changed while I was there. I started in the college competitions area, which meant going around to campuses and talking to students and recruiting for the next group of guest editors. And then I was in merchandising. And so we were doing big events in every department store all over the country, bringing the magazine to life for an advertiser and an editorial feature. But then I'd left because I had a boss who I knew was not going to keep promoting me. And it was just time to get out of it, out of there. And right away I went to Gimbel's east, which was a big department store in New York. And I. I became fashion director of Gimbel's east, which was also a terrific time. It was about creating the windows, creating special departments in the store for the Upper east side customer, which is different than the Gimbel's downtown. And I. That's when I started meeting more designers and going to the fashion shows. I had a short stint on 7th Avenue that I didn't like, selling in a showroom for a contemporary sportswear line called Cinnamon Wear. And then eventually I. I wound up opening my own public relations business called Fern Malice Public Relations. And I knew nothing about public relations per se, other than that I think everything is public relations, right? And people were calling me all the time, how do I get this party Organized. Who do you use for balloons? Who do you print invitations with? My friends opening up a new beauty salon. How could we get them some publicity? And I knew a lot of people out in all the world because I was always out and going about meeting people. And so I put that all together and people would ask me for stuff. And I realized I could get paid for that information.

[April Callahan]

Right.

[Fern Malice]

And start my business. And it started with some fashion clients, with Selma Weiser, who was the owner.

[April Callahan]

Of Shera Berry, an amazing downtown, super hip boutique for any of our listeners.

[Fern Malice]

Actually started on the Upper west side.

[April Callahan]

Oh, interesting. I did not know that.

[Fern Malice]

On Broadway, in Columbus, in the small boutique. And at the. At that time, Marc Jacobs was one of the stock boys in the store. So it has great history. And she was one of the first retailers who brought in a lot of the Japanese designers and the Italian designers. And then I did a couple of other little fashion things and then morphed into the interior design and architecture world, where my sister was very involved. And I knew a lot of people. And for me, that was a seamless transition. And I did that for quite a few years. I had one of my assistants who came out of college. A great story is where I started my priority business was in my friend's offices who are architects and interior designers, Brahman and Jacobs. And they at the time were working with these two guys named Ian Schrager and Steve Rebel. And they were designing Studio 54.

[April Callahan]

Yeah, yeah. And then, of course, Ian goes on to become a also amazing hotelier.

[Fern Malice]

How unbelievable. Who knew Studio 54 would become what it was? They were doing like a first big disco in New York. And that was a heady time in New York.

[April Callahan]

Yeah. I many, many years ago, was Anna Sui's intern. And she always used to regale me with stories of the early 1980s. And she basically was like, april, if you showed up here in the late 70s, early 80s, and you had talent and you wanted to work hard, you could do it. She's like, things are very different now.

[Fern Malice]

I couldn't agree more. But that was interesting. And that business, I love that business. And I love being in the design side of it, the interior and architecture. We're going to all the trade fairs in Milan for the Salone del Mobile, the neocon, a big trade show at the Chicago Merchandise Mart. Going out to the Pacific Design center for West Week and creating openings for new product, new line of furniture, a new chair, creating fun press kits and parties and putting all the elements together.

[April Callahan]

Yeah.

[Fern Malice]

My assistant was somebody who came to work at the offices with Bromley Jacobson. When we were doing studio, she was just graduating from Vassar and her father begged was the insurance company for the company and asked the guys to please hire his daughter. And we hired her and it was Jane Hertzmark, who's Jane Huttes now, who's the global executive president of Estee Lauder. And she worked for me for six years and she's still like my family and best friend. But you know, I had wonderful people working for me all through, through that time. Yeah. And I worked for a big design center in Long Island City called idcny, helped launch that. And then that's when the real estate crash happened in New York in the late 80s and everything just stopped. And so I went back to my PR roots doing some freelance pr. And that's when I found out about the job that was looking for a new director at the Council of Fashion Designers for America.

[April Callahan]

Where in the 90s you became executive director. Exactly, yeah. How did that role come about for you?

[Fern Malice]

Like I said, I was doing some freelance PR for a company called Loving and Wine Trail. And they were doing some pro bono work for the cfda. And the CFDA at that time was producing a huge event called 7th on Sale, which was their effort to do something significant in the industry for aids. And they were late to the game doing that. I was on the board of difa, which is the Design Industries foundation, fighting aids. And we were doing events for many years because nobody else was. And the government was not talking about aids. All our friends were dying. It was a horrible time. And so when CFDA did seventh on Sale, I went to the dessert party because that's all I could afford. And I was blown away by the scale and extraordinary creativity of this one event that was four days long in the Armory on 26th street in Manhattan, where every designer had a beautiful booth and they were there for four days selling their merchandise below wholesale prices. And people would buy a ticket for a two hour shopping experience and then they'd line up to buy and then there were vans on the streets that were restocking each booth. There were lines completely wrapped around the whole city for days. And that event, Anna Winter was a chair of it with it was Vogue and Donna and Calvin and Ralph and all they were the big mucky muck chairs. And it was an extraordinary event. And when that was over, the president of cfda, who was Carolyn Rome, resigned and somebody who was the director who worked in Perry Ellis's office for a while, resigned. Or he didn't resign. His contract wasn't renewed. And the CFDA was looking for a new director. And I kept reading about it in Women's Wear Daily because I read that every day and I threw my hat in the ring.

[April Callahan]

Yeah. And at that point, from an organizational standpoint, the CFDA was nearly 30 years old at that point. Had been founded in 1962 originally. But the American fashion industry in the early 1960s was a completely different animal. When you inherited the reins of the CFDA in the early 1990s, what was the state of the organization at that point?

[Fern Malice]

It was. If you weren't like hardcore in the industry, you didn't even know what CFDA was. But that's why this seventh on sale benefit really opened up the organization to the bigger universe of consumers and people who were interested in fashion. But it was organized and created by Eleanor Lampert to further the artistic and creative goals of the industry as a not for profit. And they would do a little benefit function here and there, but nothing really spectacular, really. It was a sleeper organization and the industry was. It was Bill Blass and Oscar and Jeffrey Bean were the stars. It was the era when Donna and Calvin and Ralph and Michael Kors were just starting to take over and they would be becoming the new Mount Rushmore Fashion. And it was a. It was nothing like it is today. Nobody had emails, nobody was on the Internet. Designers were the last people to get involved in technology. There's no E commerce. Everything that we do now is no Instagram, none of that. So there was fashion weeks. And fashion weeks were market weeks for industry. Really, truly total industry. And it's the. Didn't know who or what. You were not invited. Nobody knew even where anything was. There was a fashion calendar that we all knew that Ruth Finley would produce a bunch of pink pages every month with everything that was going on. And that's the industry that I joined in into. But when I was hired, I came to the threw my hat in the ring and they had already had their five finalists and I became like number six. And it all happened very fast. And I walked in the door and I was what they. I really fit the bill. I had a meeting with Stan Herman and Monica Tilly and then they called me the minute my resume hit their desk. And then the next day come back for another meeting and it was with Calvin Klein and Bill Blass and Carolyn Rome. And I remember them saying to me, you haven't been in fashion in 10 years. Why should we hire you? And I said, I never stopped wearing clothes. He Said, I never stopped shopping. I never stopped reading magazines. It's in my DNA. I grew up in it. And then I was asked to come back a week later for the entire board meeting, which was every name you've ever heard of in the industry was there at a huge long table in Carolyn's showroom. And it was my birthday that day. And they drilled me, Oscar drilled me about my other charitable initiatives being my DIFA and partnership for the homeless and how that's going to compete with cfda. And I said, it's not. I will do everything I still need to do. Don't ask me to stop raising money for my friends who are dying. I will do everything I can for cfda. In any case, at the end of the meeting, they threw me in the back office and deliberated. And then I came back out and I had a birthday cake and the whole CFDA board saying, happy birthday to me.

[April Callahan]

Many other people can say that.

[Fern Malice]

Truly not many people. And then I took the two weeks to get organized and get the job going. And that's when there was the fashion shows. And Michael Kors had a show in an empty loft space in Chelsea. And when they turned the bass music on at these shows, things just shake. It's so loud and vibrates. And the ceiling started to vibrate and shake, and plaster started coming down on the Runway and hitting the shoulders of Naomi and Cindy and Linda and the beautiful one named supermodels. But when chunks of plaster landed in Susie Mantis Lap Donovan from the New York Times, they wrote, the next day, we live for fashion. We don't want to die for it. And I said, I think that my job description just changed.

[April Callahan]

Yeah.

[Fern Malice]

And it was never part of the discussion for the whole thing about organizing a fashion week. And that's how it all started.

[April Callahan]

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[Cassie Zachary]

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[April Callahan]

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[April Callahan]

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[Fern Malice]

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[April Callahan]

To refresh your summer with TikTok. And you've stated specifically in the past that early on in your time at the cfda, and I'm quoting you, you said it was time to organize, modernize and centralize. So what were some of those strategies that you implemented to that aim?

[Fern Malice]

We had no strategy. We had no, no idea we were running blindly there. I hooked up with Douglas Durst, who was a big real estate developer in the area, and we looked at empty buildings because it had been a recession. There were a lot of buildings that stopped being built. Was there spaces that we could do something? And I looked at every empty pier and parking lot in New York, trying to see what we can do. I hired a freelance producer who is somebody that helped do exhibits for me at the design center in Long Island City when I was running that. And, you know, I gave him a space inside, literally a closet in the office. We had a small office in 1412 Broadway, and it was like, what can we do? We had meetings with everybody all the time. Lots of meetings, lots of young designers raising their hand and saying, why should we show in the same space as anybody else? Is Calvin Klein going to show there? And luckily at that meeting, Calvin Klein was in the front row. And I said, calvin, you want to answer that? And he came up to the podium and said, yes, I'm going to be there. We all have to do this together if it's going to work. And we focused in on tents because that's what was happening in Europe. Paris had tents in the courtyard of the Louvre and Milan had a big trade fair, the Fiera a big building. We couldn't use the Javits center and we couldn't find enough big spaces. So we wound up making a deal with Bryant Park. This was after a test run at the Maclo Hotel which now is the Millennial Hotel. And we realized that this could work. And I spent a good amount of time dialing for dollars to pay for it. We got Vogue and Annette with one of the first to support it, Evian water. You know, when even when I called Anna, she said, how much money do you need? And I said, I. I don't know. Half a million dollars. We had literally had no idea. And she called back after she went to see Speak to Sign Newhouse and said, I'll give you 100. And I said, thank you. And then I called the president of Hearst and I said, rogue is giving us 100,000. And he said, okay, Harper's Bazaar will. And then I called the president of his shed, Philip, and he said, okay, I'll give you 100. And then Hearst called back and said, can we give you another hundred, Town and Country? And I said, yes. And I called friends at Clairol and I called Prescriptives at Estee Lauder, which was my former assistant, Jane, who was working with me when I started my PR business. And we got 100 from her and we were off and running. I called General Motors and I asked to speak to the president. I was like, Michael Moore, can I talk to the president? And they put you through if you just ask for it. And I spoke to the secretary and explained what we were doing, and we wanted American brands who could support the industry. And she said, this is a great idea. Send some information. And we did. And then the president of Hachette said, I'll help you get that. Don't worry. Because we do all the car and motor magazines, and they owe us a lot of favors. And we got General Motors on board. And 1993, we kicked off seventh on sixth, which was named after the big AIDS benefit that they did, which was seventh on sale. It was 7th Avenue doing something.

[April Callahan]

Yeah. Colloquially now we all just call it Fashion Week. Yes, yes. And you helmed us for 18 years. That was a wild ride.

[Fern Malice]

I'm sure it was extraordinary to watch how that grew. And I often refer back about Studio 54, where people say, if you have weren't there, you really can't imagine. It was this magic of being in a place that you couldn't get into. And Bryant park tents were like that, too. Everybody wanted to be in Bryant Park. The crowds that would stand on the street behind stanchions, just watching the celebrities and the models and the industry go in and out. It was really special. It's all different now.

[April Callahan]

Yeah. What impact did the shows coming together, gathering in the tents under this kind of unified umbrella of a Fashion week have on the industry.

[Fern Malice]

It was an enormous boon for the industry because we were now inviting editors from all over the world and retailers from all over the world who never were, never had an opportunity to see all these shows. If they were invited by one designer, they would maybe make the trip. But they didn't know then, oh, this and the next 10 or 20 people while I'm in New York that I could go see. We produced books this thick of press books, finding out where every editor was staying, what hotels so that you could send invitations to them. It was a really well oiled machine, just from a common sense point of view of how to make this work. And we helped launch careers. You said Anna Sui and Anna became a real business from showing at the tents. Carolina Herrera was there at the very beginning. Isaac Mizrahi, they filmed the movie Unzipped in that venue. Todd Oldham did shows that just knocked your socks off. People didn't know who these designers were. And models, that launched models careers. It launched hundreds of careers of producers and publicists and photographers like crazy. Patrick McMullen got from me one of the first all access passes photographed backstage. That was forbidden territory. And the celebrities that came, it was the agora of the industry. Everybody came to the marketplace. Every publicist wanted their superstars and new talent to be there and be in the front row. Because it was also the beginning of all those entertainment magazines that didn't exist before that within Style and People. But then it was Entertainment Weekly, this, that and all the TV shows and all the 24 hour cable. Everybody was looking for content and Fashion Week provided that content. Yeah, Bravo and E did complete fashion television based on Fashion Week. They came to meet with me and said, we think we could do a whole network focusing on this. They'd start with the shows, then they do separate episodes on designers. They do weeks of beauty stories from the shows, weeks of accessory stories. It was, it was a feeding frenzy.

[April Callahan]

Yeah, that moment, that mid-90s moment really is that moment when fashion shows and fashion weeks slip into the popular zeitgeist as they have today. Really. I remember going to one of the very first incarnations of the Lincoln center shows. I think it was maybe like 2010 or something like that. And I was looking around me and I was like, so many of the people here are not industry people. And I'm not sure if a lot of our listeners will really realize that, that historically speaking, fashion shows and the ones that we were referring to earlier really were for the trade by invitation only. And it is this mid-90s moment that you were just speaking of when that all changes.

[Fern Malice]

Yeah, no, absolutely. A minute evolved into IMG bought us. After the first 10 years, I left the CFDA and joined IMG because I wanted to protect my baby, which were the tents in Bryant Park. The sponsorship changed from General Motors to Olympus Fashion Week, and then it became Mercedes Benz Fashion Week. And Mercedes then started to underwrite fashion shows all over the world. It became an important element of their marketing and business. But what happened is when IMG took over, it became much more of a business. All of a sudden, I'm working in a company where all I heard about was ebitda, EBITDA in the corridors. And I'm like, what the hell is ebitda? I'm just worried about designers getting their opportunity to show what they can do. And it was all about selling more and more sponsorships. And sponsors now wanted 20 tickets to every show, and that adds up with every sponsor deal. And all of a sudden, the lobbies are filled with all these people that were like, who are they? And then the industry also then started to change. Around that time, there were something called bloggers. What's a blogger? And now an influencer and content creators. And it was no longer the front row of, oh, look, there's the whole Neiman Marcus group. Oh, there's sex, there is Barney's. There's the Bloomingdale team. There's Vogue, there's Bizarre, There's Glamour, there's InStyle. There's Elle, there's Womenswear Daily Team. There's. Now you look out and you go, like you said, who are these people?

[April Callahan]

Yeah. And also, too, there's been a lot of chatter within the industry about potentially opening shows up to the public as ticketed events, which I think is an entirely different animal of sorts. I know that Melbourne does their fashion show that way.

[Fern Malice]

Melbourne does a great job.

[April Callahan]

Yeah.

[Fern Malice]

But that whole week is based on purely a consumer week.

[April Callahan]

Yes, Yes. I was there in 2019. I was actually supposed to be there this past March, but my visa didn't go through in time. But what are your thoughts on that? What are your thoughts on doing these open to the public commercial weeks?

[Fern Malice]

I had proposed that a long time ago when I was at ing, and I said, because I had been to Melbourne as well a couple of times, and I said, this really works. This. We should do one of these shows. Because it was also when the industry was starting to realize that with the media changing so quickly, when we used to do fashion shows. You'd see what was on the Runway, and then you didn't see that in the stores for another six months for the next season. Now, with everything instant on Instagram, people were seeing it right away and it was confusing people because you couldn't buy it right away. So we were like, let's do a show for when everything's in store and so people can go and see the collections. They can then go out and buy them and go to the stores or figure out the technology, which was starting to happen, where you can buy from seeing it on the Runway or something. But we never, unfortunately, we never were able to pull that off. But now, I mean, I know that there are lots of publicists who work for different designers who very quietly sell tickets to their shows to consumers. You know, I mean, I might. I kind of call it the black market at Fashion Week where they're. And if that was happening when I was running Fashion Week, I would have killed them. No, you cannot do that.

[April Callahan]

Right.

[Fern Malice]

But it helps pay for their shows. It's expensive. So I don't know how one stops that now. But that's. That is very much part of the. Part of the model now.

[April Callahan]

Yeah, yeah. You have slipped back into one of your prior roles as a consultant. Now I would love to hear about what you were up to, especially what you're up to in India, because India has really gotten its due recognition as a fashion capital the last few years. I'm wondering if that's a little bit of the fern malice effect.

[Fern Malice]

Thank you. I like to think so. I spent well while I was at IMG Fashion. When I was joined img, the very first trip I made like a month later was to India, to what was going to be their first fashion week in Mumbai, Kalakmi Fashion Week, which is the big beauty brand in India. And I fell in love with India the minute I arrived at the Taj Mahal Hotel and met all these designers and saw what was going on and saw the clothing they were making and the jewelry and everything there. I did not expect to fall in love with India. I went kicking and screaming. And I spent the next 10 years helping to formulate that fashion week, working with lots of the great designers, including Saby Sashi, who I saw his first show and. Oh my God, what is this? Who is this? Is this going to be good next season? Let's see if this is a one, a one shot wonder. By now. He's over a year ago opened most magnificent store anybody's ever seen in New York at 160 Christopher Street. He's being acknowledged around the world as one of the most fabulous designers. My friend Tarun Talahani. And I mean, I love the Indian designers. My job, when I was working with Fashion Week, there was bringing over every season key retailers and key editors. We had budgets to do that, and many people in this industry will say, thank you, Fern. You were the first one that got me to India. So many people who were so appreciative of that trip. You know, now I've gone back for several occasions for mostly Saby Sashi events and things that he's doing over there. And it's 25 years. That industry is finally getting its due. I mean, those designers do so much business in India and make so much money doing their weddings and stuff that it's a big commitment to become a global business and to set up shop in America.

[April Callahan]

Yeah. Yeah. And India is not the only international Fashion week that you have consulted on, if I am correct.

[Fern Malice]

At IMG Fashion, we started working with Mercedes and creating Berlin Fashion Week. And I'll never forget the show that we did. And those venues changed every season to different parts of the city because there's so many incredible venues in Berlin. But one was at the Brandenburg Gate with a Runway coming straight through the columns of the Brandenburg Gate. Models, like, walking through that, and it was epic. And IMG then bought the Australian Fashion Week and also made a deal with the Moscow Fashion Week. We were involved with Toronto, consulting in Mexico City, and. And then I was being invited to Tokyo and to Dubai and Singapore. And anywhere that these countries were seeing what fashion weeks were doing for their cities and their countries was generating publicity and business and tourism and hospitality, and they were like, well, how do we do this? And so that's a lot of what I did. And I used to say that all these fashion weeks were pearls, and IMG at that time was the necklace stringing them all together. Wow.

[April Callahan]

Does that mean that you're the pendant, the fancy pendant in the middle?

[Fern Malice]

Not anymore. That necklace broke a long time ago. But then. Then there also became fashion weeks all over the country. And when I left img, I became an advisor to Charleston Fashion Week, which I loved going down for, I don't know, six, seven years. Nashville Fashion Week. There was a Boston Fashion Week. I went to Omaha Fashion Week, went to San Antonio Fashion Week. It was just everywhere. And Philly Fashion Week, which I still go down to, and I love what they're doing in Philadelphia. And I'm of the opinion that you can be a designer anywhere in the world these days and you don't need brick and mortar anymore with the technology. And they don't have to come to New York and spend every dime that they have to be in the fashion business.

[April Callahan]

With a Venmo debit card, you can.

[Fern Malice]

Venmo more than just your friends. You can use your balance in so many ways. You can Venmo everything. Need gas? You can Venmo this.

[April Callahan]

How about snacks?

[Fern Malice]

You can Venmo that. Your favorite band's merch?

[April Callahan]

You can Venmo this or their next show?

[Fern Malice]

You can Venmo that.

[April Callahan]

Visit Venmo Me debit to learn more.

[Fern Malice]

You can Venmo this or you can Venmo that. Yeah, you can Venmo this or you can Vemo that. You can Vemo the Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp bank and a pursuant to license by MasterCard International Incorporated Card may be used everywhere.

[April Callahan]

MasterCard is accepted. Venmo purchase restrictions apply.

[Fern Malice]

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[Cassie Zachary]

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[April Callahan]

I would love to turn our attention our conversation to some of the your conversations that are very well attended at the 92nd Street Y here in New York City. The series is called Fashion Icons. How did the series come about a few years ago?

[Fern Malice]

Few years ago was 15 years ago. Wow.

[April Callahan]

I can't believe it's 15 years. That's amazing.

[Fern Malice]

15 years. It started the year that I left IMG and I was not sure I left when the tents started. Were no longer going to be in Bryant Park. The deal was made to move to Lincoln Center. I helped support the transition because I knew it had to happen. You know about fashion being part of the culture of the city. Just like opera and theater and ballet and everything. But nobody liked what was happening at Lincoln Center. They didn't like the venues. They didn't like the location. So I was happily out of that. But when I was trying to figure out what's next, what do I do now after being that person that everybody wanted to get a time slot from. And so I did an off Broadway play. I did love Loss and what I wore and had a month stint in that which was a scream and a half. I had a radio show called Fashion Insiders on Sirius xm. And I entered what I called the coffee phase of my life that summer. And people said, what's the coffee phase of your life? I said, all of a sudden, people would start calling me. Hi, you know, I'd love to talk to you about a new project. Can we meet for a cup of coffee? Hi. My friend said that you would be somebody I should consult with. Can I take you out for a cup of coffee? Hi. I have a new startup. Can we have coffee? And I said, nobody ever wanted to take me to lunch or dinner. They just wanted coffee. And finally, it was through my friend Timothy Greenfield Sanders, a spectacular photographer and filmmaker who brought me down to his studio on the Lower east side for tea. And we talked about what I was doing. He said, you know what? I'm going to introduce you to my friend Betsy Berg. She has an agency, and she represents lots of interesting people. And I met Betsy. We had lunch, so that was a good start. And she said, I'm introducing you to my friend Susan Engel, who lives in my building, and she does all the talk programming at the 92nd Street. Yes. And so we all met for a coffee at Nespresso on Madison Avenue at the time. And she said, we do fashion interviews here, but they're one offs. Like, Diane von Furstenberg had been here once, Calvin had been here once. But we'd love to formalize that because it's such a part of the New York City culture. And would you be interested in hosting that and interviewing people? And I said, I'm usually the one getting interviewed, but I guess I could string together some intelligent questions. And we decided to call it Fashion Icons with Fern Malice. And she said, do you think you can get some good people? I said, let me try. So first out of the gate was Norma Kamali, who's a dear friend for 40 years. And I kind of cut my teeth on Norma. The next one was Calvin Klein. And Calvin, when he came out on the stage, I said to him, how come you're doing this? You're not launching a new fragrance, you're not launching a new line. You've been retired from the business for 10 years already. And he said, I'm here because you asked me. And I said, good answer. And Alvin kind of opened the door, and then Donna came on, and Tommy and Tom Ford and Michael Kors and Marc Jacobs and Diane, you name it. Bill Cunningham. The most epic interview ever.

[April Callahan]

I was at a talk that you gave at FIT Many Years ago. And you told the backstory about how you basically cajoled Bill Cunningham to come on. Would you share that with our listeners? It's wonderful.

[Fern Malice]

Bill was one of the most precious people our industry ever had. Photographer, the New York Times, and a very shy and very humble man. And he doesn't. He doesn't. What's the word? Take fools gladly. What is that expression? But for no fools. And he doesn't like talking to a lot of people because he just wants to hide the bushes and take pictures. And he doesn't want you posing for pictures. If you stand and pose, he won't take the picture. He wants to catch what's happening. And I've known him since first day in my career. And even in the design world, when I was doing all the architecture, interior design world, he covered a party that we did on Fire island called beach to Save Lives. And it was right before the AIDS crisis hit. And I'd known Bill ever since then. And when this series started, I said, bill, you have to be part of this. You have so many stories to tell. And he said, yes, child. Yes, child. He called everybody child. And he'd always just humor me, but never commit to anything. He'd always end mid sentence and move on. And I literally, I bugged him for years. And then there was a documentary about him that was done, which he never saw because he didn't believe in it. He said he agreed to it as a favorite at Arthur Sulzberger at the New York Times. And he said that movie ruined his life because he now became a celebrity and people go up to him and try to talk to him all the time. And he didn't want to do that. And so one day he said, you know, I wrote you a letter. Why I won't do it. And I said, you did? Where did you send the letter? He didn't remember. So I'm another event somewhere weeks later. And he came rushing over to me. He said, I sent the letter to 92Y, I think. So I said, okay, let me try and track that down. And I did. And they had it there. And it was a beautifully written letter with his fancy scrolling handwriting that you have to read a few times to get the right words. And it was about how much he loves me and that he'd do anything for me, but it's too personal and that he doesn't like the attention and whatever. So next time I saw him, I said, bill, I got your letter and our loss. I'm sorry, but I won't bother you Anymore, I promise. And so we were fine. A couple of months later, I was coming back from India from Fashion week. Arrived at 5 o' clock in the morning from the plane that night was the CFDA Awards at Lincoln center at Alice Tully Hall. And I came wearing this saffron orangey chiffon caftan and layered look that I bought in India. And at cocktail party, I'm standing with Bill and we're just chatting awake, which we always do, and he all of a sudden turned to take a picture and knock the vodka and soda that was in my hand and it spilled on me. And so here I am, like wet on my chiffon dress. And he was mortified. He grabbed my arm, he said, oh, my God, in 40 years, I've never done this. Oh, my God, I've never done this. Let me buy you a new outfit. And I said, bill, I just came home from India with this this morning. There's no way you can buy me another one. I'll get it dry cleaned. I said, bill, it's vodka. It will dry. And I'm fanning it with the program.

[April Callahan]

Yeah.

[Fern Malice]

And he. I said, it was red wine. I'd kill you. He said, I can't believe it. I said, bill, go take your pictures, do your job. I'll be fine now. I feel so bad. I feel so. What can I do? I'll do anything. And I looked at him and I said, will you do the one? And he said, yes. And I said, I'm calling you in the morning at the office to make sure you remember and let's get it on the calendar. And we did. And my first book of interviews that Rizzoli published, we held it to include the Bill Cunningham interviewing. Yeah.

[April Callahan]

And there's two books called Fashion Icons, and they are so supremely wonderful. Would you tell us about them and kind of how they're formatted?

[Fern Malice]

They're available on Amazon. I think Book one might still be available, which has all the Americans, basically, that I did, including John Varvatos and Kenneth Cole and Bruce Weber. And book two, when a Little Transatlantic, we have Valentino and Victoria Beckham and Angela and Rosita Missoni and Iris Apfel, Arthur Elgore, Bethann Hardison, Christian Siriano, Sandra Rhodes, Billy Porter, and an interview with me that Debbie Smith did. And the books are, as the chairman of Rizzoli wrote, they're beautiful to look at but, you know, eminently readable and you're forced to want to read. And the interviews are edited to a narrative. Well, so it's pretty much what happens on the stage at the Y. And then I've asked everybody for the shoebox under their bed, have pictures that document what we were talking about. So I don't want a whole bunch of press photos. I want you with your parents, you're with your siblings. How'd you grow up? Tell me about your bedroom. You learn about these people in a completely other way. When you walk out after my interview or after you read it, you feel like you know them. You know, and most designers, you don't really hear them speak about this stuff. It's always about their collection. I don't care about the collection. I care about who they are, what inspired them. I have found the common thread through most of my interviews is their grandmothers were the most influential people in their lives. It's interesting. And the third book, we're just about ready to start book three, so that's going to be probably available next September 26th.

[April Callahan]

Well, also speaking of 2026, you are about to be the subject of a documentary. Yes.

[Fern Malice]

Film, already the subject of it. And it's very much in the works. Somebody coined the term godmother of fashion, and that seems to be what's holding it all together. And in fact, the team from Craftwork that is putting it together came to India in January when I was there and followed me around to see all my Indian friends and connections and dinners and parties and come to my favorite shops where you come in and you get ferns price. And yeah, I mean, it still has more work to be done. We're still funding it more, but I'm not sure exact timing of it, but it's very exciting.

[April Callahan]

Yeah, we will definitely let our listeners know when that comes out, but I think it's, it's definitely 2026 from my understanding. So in the near future, coming your way. Speaking of the future, you have been thinking about the future of fashion for decades now. So my last question that I'd like to ask is about the future of American fashion. You already know this quite well that it's estimated that Only anywhere between 2 to 3% of the clothing that is purchased in the US today is actually made here domestically. So where do you think we're headed? Given all the tariffs, where does this leave the American fashion industry currently? What might the future of fashion entrepreneurship look like Stateside?

[Fern Malice]

Well, if I could really answer all that, I'd be really rich.

[April Callahan]

Yeah.

[Fern Malice]

And I had that crystal ball. You know, it is a crapshoot right now. I think everybody is terrified. We don't Know what's going to happen. It changes every day. This administration is no friend of the industry. I don't know what industry it is a friend of.

[April Callahan]

I'm not sure if they know other.

[Fern Malice]

Than their billionaire friends. I'm mortified about my friends like Deirdre Quinn, who was the president of Luffy at 148, and they have a huge, extraordinary factory in China. Everything's done there. She says with what's happening with these tariffs, they're probably going to have to close the business. I have so much clothing From Luffy at 148, it kills me to even hear them saying things like that. There are young designers that are going to be dropping by the wayside. We didn't used to manufacture here, but then it became price. When I remember being at a talk at the UN event, pricing and sustainability, and Susie Menkes actually talked about that you could buy a bikini for less than a cappuccino because it's made in Bangladesh or somewhere and sold at one of the big box stores. Everybody became so price conscious, and yet there still is that price conscious customer. Then there's that huge luxury market which didn't seem like it was being affected at all. But you're starting to see the ripple effects of people are not sure what they want, what's going to happen, and they're holding back on those big purchases. So business is being affected at every step of the food chain here. And everything is going to start to cost more money when not ready yet. There are factories making clothes in New York. I mean, Nicole Miller makes for things here. Several designers who do everything here, but not nearly enough. No, not in New York. Not in the South. The textile mills that used to be here in America was huge textile manufacturer. Not anymore. And Donald Trump can't just say, I'm shutting it down there. Start doing it here. Well, start building it up here first.

[April Callahan]

Yeah.

[Fern Malice]

Or you start shutting it up all over the world. I don't think anybody understands how integral the world is. There were movies like Schmucke that was done on HBO and another one that was done by PBS at the Garment center. And it showed you, like, the chain of a pair of jeans that had some embellishment on it and how many countries that product went through before it was able to be sold here in America. It's a global society. The fashion industry is all over the world. You know, the button comes from somewhere, the zipper comes from somewhere, the thread. Everything is, you know, and you can't just stop it all. So I think we're headed for very scary times. And I think people saying shop in your closet, which is important because it's also about sustainability. And everybody has too much, including me. And where do we get rid of stuff? How do we edit? What do we really need? And how does this industry survive? They're all doing beautiful clothes, these designers. And lately I look online and at all the news and social media posts. I mean, there's a gala every night of the week, if not three, every night. So people are wearing gowns and they're dressing up. And the benefits. That group is still dressing up. They're still ordering their Birkin bags and you know, with the most exotic skins. I was at an event last night for a beauty launch. I couldn't believe some of the handbags and jewelry people were wearing. Some people are going to be just fine. And then there's going to be bread lines. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know what's going to happen. And the issues with Saks Global now that are concerning everybody, hopefully they're starting to pay all the vendors and people that they owe money to, but they're cutting back. Thousands of vendors in their, in their mix. And Fashion Week, who knows what's happening? It's the whole new Fashion week coming up this fall. This new companies said that they're offering 12 or 14 free venues for designers, free production. Okay, who's picking? Who gets those free venues? How does that happen? There's a lot of questions out there. People want to know and I'm curious. I want to know what's going to happen.

[April Callahan]

Yeah. Well, I guess there is no other magic ball for us except for just kind of wait it out for a little bit. A lot of friends I've talked to and I'm not necessarily even talking about fashion, but everybody's just kind of like sitting on pause at the moment about stuff to see what shakes out before we take action, whatever type of action that might be.

[Fern Malice]

And sometimes she pause you, it's too late to get back in that game. I mean, there's so many issues. Yeah. But I'm working on a caftan design with my protege, Max Alexander.

[April Callahan]

Amazing. I am a huge caftan queen myself.

[Fern Malice]

Oh, good. Well, stay tuned. And then Max, the nine year old designer, go to the Max. So we're going to hopefully launch something this summer. So I'm excited about that.

[April Callahan]

Well, speaking of the future of fashion, for any of our listeners who do not know who Max is, would you just give us like a little sound bite?

[Fern Malice]

He's the. The cutest, most talented young man I've ever met. He's nine years old. It's couture. Couture to the Max. So find it on Instagram. And he has this Parker jacket with wings on the back and a vest. And he's doing swimwear now. He has a show coming up in Miami. Swim Week. He's opening Aspen Fashion Week. He's. He's a designer.

[April Callahan]

Yeah.

[Fern Malice]

And you watch his videos and he's cutting and sewing and he's having fun. And he's a kid, but does beautiful work. I took him for the last two seasons to shows with me at Fashion Week and introduced them to the designers. And I'm his fashion fairy godmother. And I just enjoy talking about the future of fashion. That's it. To see a kid who's at four years old, told his mother he needed a mannequin, he wants to be make clothing, it's quite remarkable. He has. I think he has 4 million followers.

[April Callahan]

Yeah. Including me, including dressed. Fearne, thank you so much for being so generous with your time today. I think that you are off for a lovely weekend away in the country, so we much appreciate it and we can't wait to see what's next. Please do let us know when the caftan line with Max comes out and we will give a shout out on the show for sure.

[Fern Malice]

Thank you. I'd be happy to do that.

[Cassie Zachary]

Fern, thank you so much for joining us to talk about your role in shaping not only American fashion, but fashion weeks around the globe. April, as Fern laid out quite clearly, the future of fashion and American fashion is in a very deep moment of reckoning currently. And where. And what that means is nebulous. The very fact that our government as of recent was imposing more than 100% tariffs on Chinese manufactured goods, for instance, that's all about to hit people's closets hard.

[April Callahan]

Yeah. And I was on Instagram the other day and I saw a woman who had posted that she had ordered like a $225 address from that company that she understood to be based in the US and then when it arrived, it came alongside an additional $350 tariff fee.

[Cassie Zachary]

Wow.

[April Callahan]

Yeah. So, you know, to be certain, I can't necessarily vouch for the veracity of this Instagram post. How does one actually prove that it's true? And I'm not exactly sure how this works. Did she have to pay the customs fee before for the package was delivered to her? I do know that sometimes that's how it works. When I have purchased art at an auction in a different country in the past. But you know, how is this going to affect our online purchases moving forward? And I'm sure that we have more than a few listeners out there who are maybe lawyers or professionally involved in this topic surrounding tariffs and customs and how that all works. And if so, we would love to hear from you. We would love to know more from the inside out about what this means for American fashion moving forward. So shoot us an email and with your approval, we would love to share your insights with your fellow listeners.

[Cassie Zachary]

And I think that does it for us today. Dressed Listeners if you want to check out the social media content connected to this week's episode, you can check out the hashtag dressed553 and until next time, may you consider how fashion's fairy godmother Fern Malice has shaped the who, what and why of what you wear. Next time you get dressed, please head.

[April Callahan]

Over to Rest Podcast on Instagram or on Facebook to check out the visual content associated with each week's episodes.

[Cassie Zachary]

Remember, we love hearing from you dressed listeners, so if you'd like to write to us, you can do [e-mail] DressedHistory.com is also our website website where you can sign up for our monthly newsletter, our in person tours and online fashion history courses. And there you can also check out whatever else we have up our finely tailored sleeves.

[April Callahan]

We get so many questions from you all about our recommendations for fashion history books, so if you're interested you can always find a link in our show notes to our bookshop.org bookshelf so that address is bookshop.org shop/dressed and there you will find over 150 of our favorite fashion history titles.

[Cassie Zachary]

Do you love Dressed but want to skip the ads? We are so excited to now be a part of the Airwave Network and their premium ad free history subscription Airwave History plus and this is available on Apple Podcasts and the subscription brings you our podcast as well as 27 other popular history podcasts. Ad free for free 599 per month. More information is available at the link in our bio.

[April Callahan]

Thank you as always for tuning in and more Dressed coming your way soon. Dressed the History of Fashion is a production of Dressed Media.