← Dressed: The History of Fashion
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- [00:00]
Ryan Seacrest
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- [00:31]
April Callahan
Just the History of Fashion As a Production of Dressed media With over 8 billion people in the world, we all have one thing in common. Every day we all get dressed welcome.
- [00:46]
Cassidy Zachary
To Dressed the History of Fashion, a podcast where we explore the who, what, when? Of why we wear. We are fashion historians and your hosts, April Callahan and Cassidy Zachary, dress listeners.
- [00:59]
April Callahan
We have done multiple episodes at this point now on the history of makeup and beauty practices from different cultures throughout history around the world. We've written these episodes ourselves, but we've also interviewed multiple people who specialize in that topic, including authors and historians. But today we welcome someone whom I believe is our very first professional makeup artist turned archivist, Camille Lawrence. Camille is the founder of the Black Beauty Archive, a groundbreaking archive which is dedicated solely to documenting, preserving and archiving black beauty culture, past and present.
- [01:36]
Cassidy Zachary
Just as we always say fashion is about so much more than just pretty clothing, so too is beauty culture about more than just a pretty face. And this is exemplified by this incredible archive which in just four short years since it was founded in 2020, already contains over 4,000 plus objects and counting. This archive is truly a treasure trove, including everything from full issue magazines, books, advertisements, to hair tools, wigs and cosmetics. The archive documents everything from the evolution of various makeup brands and hair care products to the rich histories of hair competitions and beauty salons.
- [02:14]
April Callahan
All of which, it must be said, provides a lens into the many incredible ways in which Black beauty culture is significant. And beauty salons and barbershops in particular are mainstays of people's everyday lives, important not just for the services they offer, but the community that they really nurture and grow. And actually, the exact same thing can be said about the Black Beauty Archive, which, as we will learn today, is truly a labor of love for Camille, who understands the intrinsic value of intergenerational connection and is actively fostering it with what can only be described as this living archive which is constantly being informed by not Just beauty practitioners of the past, but the present. So she is actively collecting and documenting their stories through oral histories. So there are just so many stories.
- [03:02]
Cassidy Zachary
To tell and some of which Camille will share with us today. Camille, welcome to the show.
- [03:07]
April Callahan
Camille, I am so excited to talk to you today. Welcome to Dressed.
- [03:12]
Camille Lawrence
Thank you so much, Kassity. I'm super excited to be here.
- [03:15]
April Callahan
I am very excited about your archive that we are here to talk about today. But first, I would like to learn a little bit more about you, starting with your own beauty journey and what led you to a career in the beauty industry. Was there an initial spark that ignited your passion?
- [03:31]
Camille Lawrence
Absolutely. So it's interesting because I come from a family of creatives across the board on both sides, a lot of musicians and artists. My nana, who helped raise me was a classical pianist. So art, music, and culture were the center of our daily lives. And it's still is. And it's funny because she would require all of us to play an instrument and understand classical music. And with that was a very rigid structure and commitment and practice every night and orchestra early in the morning. And by third grade, I was exhausted and I looked at my mom and I said, mom, I need other forms of creativity and expression. And my mom pretty much was like, say, less so. Every Saturday, my mom, either after dance or sports, would allow me to go to Michael's or whatever craft store was nearby, and she would encourage me to find new mediums to explore. So it started with acrylic, then tempera, then pastel, then charcoal. Then she started sending me to art camps. And so from then on, I knew even as a kid that some type of career I would have as an adult would be related to arts in some way, shape, or form. In middle school, I went to junior prom and I met an amazing woman named Lori Belfort. She was at the time at the Mac counter. And she painted my face so beautifully for junior prom and coming into the Mac store and seeing the huge range of colors and glitters, it was super inspiring. And I said, oh, my God, a new medium. So by the time I got into high school, I started experimenting here and there, and it was minimal, like colorful graphic eyeliner or colored mascara. By the time I was in 10th grade, I was doing my friend's makeup for dances and recitals and things of that nature. And I did want to declare myself a visual arts major, but I don't know, I was really afraid. I was scared to pursue painting full time. I kept hearing from everywhere, and I'm sure you've Heard this too. When it comes to fashion or beauty, you will be a starving artist, right? And I don't want to be starving. But instead of going into undergraduate studying art history, and I made a commitment to myself, I said, okay, Camille, you can start a career as a makeup artist and get this degree in art history as a backup, like a plan B if things don't work out. And so, with Lori's encouragement and support, I continued chatting with her. She really encouraged me and poured into me. And I started my career in a humble counter called Impulse Beauty at Macy's. And that's like a mini. Not like a mini Sephora, but just a mini counter that had a range of different brands. And from there, Bareminerals Rep was there, and she recruited me to Bareminerals. So I jumped over to BareMinerals in 2010, stayed at BareMinerals for three months, and then I was recruited to Mac Cosmetics. And I was so nervous because the Mac girls at Counter and the Mac guys and these and them are super eccentric and just gorgeous and really giving fierce looks. And at that moment I was like, am I ready? I don't know. And so I did a little bit more studying and preparing for the interview, went through a really rigorous interview process, like five different interviews. And I finally got the position. And they placed me at Nordstrom at Roosevelt Field, actually, in Garden City. And I started there in 2012. I left there at the end of 2014. While I was there, I ended up growing into a product specialist. I became super obsessed with what is in the ingredients, what is influencing how these products are being made, but then started freelancing with Anastasia Beverly Hills. And that was before Anastasia had color products. That was before her daughter jumped into leadership. And so that was really when it was brow focused. Then from there, I jumped to Tom Ford Freelance at Tom Ford. And after that, I ended up growing with Sephora, becoming a market coordinator for Amore Pacific. Because I started falling deeply in love with skin and understanding the value of what skin care does for the canvas for Face as Beauty. And throughout that whole time, while I'm growing my makeup career, I'm still studying at school and I'm freelancing, doing other gigs. So I'm shadowing hairstylists and other makeup artists. I was blessed to work with some Olympians and politicians. Then I started touring with some artists and rappers in 2018. So it's been a very interesting whirlwind of a journey, and somehow it led me to create Black Beauty Archives.
- [07:53]
April Callahan
The fact that you view Makeup as an extension or part of your artistic practice, I think is fascinating, but also makes perfect sense because makeup is an art form and certainly can be, as is evidenced by your incredible archive that we are here to talk about today. What inspired you to create the Black Beauty archive, and what is the significance of Juneteenth to its creation?
- [08:18]
Camille Lawrence
As you all know, and all of us experience so much fear and disassociation and isolation in 2020, when the pandemic began. And in the midst of the pandemic, we had protests, and it was just a really dark time. And being in New York City, we were at epicenter for consecutive months, and I had a lot of fear. I was inside. Outside of that, all of my gigs were canceled. Every single gig I had on the calendar for the next year. And I knew it wasn't just me, all of our peers as well. And we were looking around like, what is next for us? Are we ever going to be able to do beauty and interact with each other in the ways that we once did? And so I really shut myself in, and I went through my personal collection that I started saving. Throughout my makeup career, I would save everything. Call sheets, backstage passes, Polaroid pictures, behind the scenes on set, little love notes, empty containers, my apparel at my different roles. I just went through that box, and it gave me, like, this good nostalgia. And I started going online. I was like, you know what? I want joy and inspiration. I got to fill myself with joy now to keep myself mentally well. And when I kept searching for information, and I was like, there is no Black Beauty library that exists. This is insane. And even being on set and traveling with different artists, it was really difficult searching to find primary sources of beauty. Inspo Pinterest wasn't diverse yet Google Images wasn't diverse with keyword searches. And so I was like, you know what? It started as a passion project. I said, I'm going to make a small library for myself and my peers in makeup and hair, and I'm just going to share it with them. And I started with maybe teen magazines that I had on my own. And it's interesting because my husband, he's an environmentalist, and he had a recycling and recovery company who was clearing out a lot of homes in New York City at the time. And he knew I wanted to do this. And he came upstairs one day, and he was like, camille, I have these boxes for you. And I go into the boxes, and it's all of these Ebony magazines, Essence magazines, Jet magazines that his company had recovered. And I'm Freaking out and I'm screaming, going through and ingesting all this information, like, oh my gosh, this is the perfect place to start. Because in my mind I'm thinking In the early 40s and 50s, most of mainstream magazines were not inclusive of black beauty and black women and advertising to us. And I said, okay, if I'm going to build a library, I have to start at the root where black publications were sharing and dispersing information. And so that was like a major blessing for him to help me get that started. And then I aggressively was staying up every night until 3am searching with online auctions and buying things like a mad woman. So I'm amassing all of this information. And I said, all right, Camille, what is the end goal here? Because now I had a room full of materials in my office. And by that time I had already finished my art history degree and I ended up pursuing my master's in library science and me working in archives. I worked with a lot of dance companies and theater companies and similar to beauty, because I very much still see beauty as performance art. These dance companies, the ways in which I was approaching the archival practice was in preserving ephemeral art. Very temporary, one time experience. And in my mind I was thinking, all right, if we're going to build out this archive, I need to tell a full story and a full narrative for those people who were not there. Before beauty influencers, before beauty bloggers. How can I collect ephemera to tell a fuller narrative? So for example, the Beyonce and L'Oreal collection that we have every single physical print ad of Beyonce, but then we've also preserved every single commercial that was published. But then we went ahead and found the actual cosmetic, right? So we want to be able to preserve multiple forms of the storytelling so that people understand a fuller narrative. Same thing for Mac Cosmetics. We preserved every single Mac Cosmetics launch that was launched by a black artist, from Diana Ross to Whitney Houston. And we started doing oral histories with Mac artists who were at counter to retell what those experiences were like for those folks who weren't there. Because in the early days we didn't have beauty influencers hyping up people to get to counter. It was the beauty bloggers, right? So we preserved those blog posts, we've web archived them, we've preserved the physical cosmetic. And then since I was a Mac artist, I already have the apparel from the launches. So filling out the collection in that way. In regards to launching the archive on Juneteenth, I wanted the anniversary to be a significant Day to really center in remembering our ancestors and people who came before us to make these art making practices possible. I wanted to every year look back and be able to honor, remember the people's names who weren't remembered, who didn't go mainstream, who may not have been published on huge magazines and billboards, but made a major impact, whether it was their patents in the beauty industry, like Willie or Floyd Kenyatta being the first national black artist for Paul Mitchell. So that was very intentional. The day of Juneteenth is really to honor the creatives who allow us to exist.
- [13:29]
April Callahan
And I think it's really interesting too that you started during the pandemic because you're not the only archive online archive that was. That came to fruition during that period. We've had Faith Cooper and the Asian Fashion Archive founded at the same time from the same frustrations, but also needing something to do and needing to be inspired. So it's like these dark times that really breed creativity. And now we have these incredible resources that did not exist before, which is amazing when you think about the thousands and thousands of years of Black beauty culture history. That you were the first archive to start and bring this together is pretty remarkable. And congratulations and thank you.
- [14:08]
Camille Lawrence
I mean, it is. It's really jarring and shocking to even believe that. Right. There are. And I don't want anyone to misunderstand, there are tons of archives, archives by beauty brands that do have black history present. Right. But there was no singular place where people could come and study the focus of just Black beauty culture from African diasporic perspectives that are inclusive of all stories. Not just black African Americans, but also Black Caribbeans, West Africans, just black folks in the diaspora, any and everywhere. But because I'm an. I identify as an African American woman and my mom's family is from Barbados. Right. I have that duality of African American culture and Caribbean culture. And so that kind of informed the first materials that we added to the archive. So outside of the jet magazines and the wigs and the hot combs and the beauty tools, I also started increasing the archive to be inclusive of pageant history. So we have tons of pageant history from the Caribbean as well.
- [15:07]
April Callahan
I would love to learn more about the foundational pillars of your archival practice because everything you have done and continue to do is incredibly thoughtful. What are these three foundational pillars and why are these so significant to you and this project?
- [15:22]
Camille Lawrence
Our three foundational pillars here at Black Beauty Archive is that we've intentionally build and continue to expand the collection from our three foundational Pillars which are oral history, physical preservation, and the ritual. And I chose these three pillars because these are three pillars that are very present in African diasporic cultures, no matter where we are. Oral history is a significant part of black culture and African culture, the ways in which we pass down history and we remember. And a lot of our oral history practices are in collective communal spaces. And so I'm thinking about how I'm sitting in between my aunt's legs and she's braiding my hair, and we're all sharing that beauty practice together, telling stories. Along with preserving oral histories. Physical preservation was essential. Physical was really influenced by what is the output. Right. That these beauty practitioners and that this community as a whole are creating. So when we say physical, that is inclusive of wigs, hot combs, styling tools, cosmetics, magazines, photographs, audio and visual materials, educational pamphlets, educational books, anything that's a physical material, whether it's audio, visual, or print, even apparel, that's inclusive of it as well. And the ritual was super essential in rounding out what our vision is, because the oral and physical go hand in hand. But that doesn't happen without the actual ritual practice. As I mentioned before, being art historian, I very much started to also analyze beauty practitioners as much more than just artists. Right. They are pillars in the community. They are therapists, they are best friends, they are mentors, and they are passing down ancestral practices that they have learned from their ancestors and also combining that with new, innovative practices. And so I wanted to be able to be in conversation with beauty practitioners about what are your rituals? What artistic techniques are you injecting to create new trends? And so the ritual is really important to us, even in holding space and creating conversations and community gatherings, to witness these ritual practices and to also embrace them.
- [17:38]
April Callahan
And we've had Dr. Tanisha Ford on the show, who talks about, as well as Dr. Tiffany Gill, about the significance of the beauty salon to African American women's lives as a social space, but also a very political space. So, yeah, there's just so many robust and vast histories to tell. And it's so exciting to see you exploring that through the lens of beauty culture.
- [18:00]
Camille Lawrence
Absolutely. And I think that was one of the other things that I wanted people to really understand and respect. On the surface, people are like, ah, beauty is just vanity. And it's like, no, beauty is intentional. It's freedom. It's intellectual, it's innovative. It's also revolutionary. It's informative, it's affirming. Right. And thinking about these beauty salons and even domestic spaces, our kitchens, our Bathrooms. That's where women have always been gathering in domestic spaces to heal each other, to affirm each other. And so I wanted to shine a light on that in the same way that Carrie Mae Weems does in her work and Lorna Simpson does in her work, who. Whose books and information are also preserved in our archive as well.
- [18:39]
April Callahan
And we love to say on the show that fashion is about so much more than pretty clothes. And the exact same thing is true for beauty culture. And obviously beauty culture is a significant portion and part of fashion, but yeah, I mean, it's really a lens in so many beautiful ways.
- [18:53]
Camille Lawrence
Absolutely.
- [18:54]
April Callahan
So the Black Beauty archive is comprised of 4,000 plus objects, which is remarkable, spanning a wide range of everything from magazine and books to hair tools, wigs, cosmetics. How do you decide which objects come into the collection and how do you acquire them?
- [19:12]
Camille Lawrence
I love, love, love this question. So clearly, in being in isolation and building the archive from the start, I started going back through my memory of what were my beauty experiences and envisioning what are those spaces and what is the information they contain. So, for example, the beauty salon, right, we have stacks of magazines that are inspiring our beauty choices. We also have huge posters on the wall that are informing new trends. We have the actual hot products and hot tools, we have the actual containers, we have packaging, we have marketing, we have commercials that are being shown on the tv. And so my mind was very much so steeped in the hair salon and capturing everything in that space to reinvent it in a digital space. So that was one major influence. Also being a beauty practitioner at counter and a product specialist thinking about all of the pieces that inform how women are creating our ritual practices. From brushes to cosmetics to mascaras, skin care, hair products, pins. I wanted to capture every single level from the crown. I actually haven't gotten into skincare and body care yet.
- [20:20]
April Callahan
It's a thought, but I really wanted.
- [20:23]
Camille Lawrence
To be able to encompass everything that really graces our crowns and our faces. And as I mentioned before, you know, ephemeral art is temporary and so are beauty rituals. And so as we expand the collection, we want to capture the physical products. We want to capture any marketing or promotions or campaigns that were surrounded with it. We want to capture what people were saying online. So we also web archive Twitter threads, we web archive blogs. And I also just really want to shout out Afro Bella. When I was in middle school, before we had YouTube beauty bloggers, there was a blog called Afrobella and she was keeping us informed for young black girls of what are the it products what are products that are made for different melanated skin tones? And so Afro Bella's blog was also a huge influence in okay, what materials are we going to acquire and how are we going to speak to our community? But then, aside from what we preserve, that adorns your face and your crown, also the accessories nail culture is huge. And I feel like it's not spoken enough in the beauty realm. And I feel like nails, especially for black women, we are very expressive with our hands, let's just be honest. And our nails are an extension of that. So I wanted to be able to also preserve nail decals and oral histories and nail collections. So, for example, we have the entire Serena Williams and OPI collection and the print ads and the commercials. We have all of the Nicki Minaj OPI nail collections, we have the Mariah Carey nail launches. Like, we have all those little pieces. And then as I'm in constant conversation with different beauty practitioners and I'm meeting different folks across the U.S. these conversations are also informing, wow, this is a subculture within a culture that I didn't initially think of and wasn't initially looking for specifically. Hair show history. Hair shows are huge in black culture. And there's different types of hair shows. We all are familiar with Bronner Brothers hair show that happens in Atlanta, which is amazing and really influential and has been running for a long time. But there was also a huge hair show culture in Detroit. Detroit Hair wars, created by D.J. humphries, also known as David Humphries. And that was an amazing show that ran for 30 plus years. And being in conversation with him and being in conversation with people like Mickey Wright, who was winning awards very young on Bronhbrother Hair show stages, realizing how these beauty practitioners were inventors, they're using pyrotech, they're sculpting and building hair that is more than tall. Like, I'm like, this is next level champion Olympics of hair. Initially, I'm not thinking about that because I was a makeup artist. So I did notice how a lot of our collection started diverse from makeup for a second in 2021 and just running, running to capture so much hair history. But then there's also natural hair shows, which is a totally different performance art aesthetic, which is a totally different experience. And so again, as we are in constant conversation with beauty practitioners and our beauty community, they very much so influence what we acquire. I think it's important that people understand that black media archive is not like a traditional archive. We are very much influenced and care about what the community wants to preserve. And as an archivist, I'm also a big believer that if the community is alive and well, that I'm studying, that I'm researching, I must be in conversation with them because that's equitable and that's the right thing to do. We move with a level of integrity where we never want to spread misinformation and we never want to misrepresent any parts of artistry and culture, especially when the folks are alive and well. So a lot of the work in the early years has been around trust building, building relationships. Spending time going to visit some of these beauty practitioners who are elders, who live in different states. It may be as simple as three hour phone calls for three months. Then I finally go visit them and I'm taking them shopping for groceries and we're going up their clothes from the cleaners, really building that intimate relationship. Because unfortunately, a lot of Black beauty practitioners have been done so wrong in the industry. And as you know, when it comes to fashioning beauty for huge productions, we are always at the bottom of the budget. And so thinking about how do we honor them and lift them up in the most respectful ways and also centering them. My goal for Black Beauty Archives is really to be able to honor and center black beauty practitioners and hairstylists and makeup artists on the same level as painters and sculptors. I want people to give Carla Farmer Jackson, who was a Hollywood hair department head, who's a phenomenal woman and mentor. I want people to give her the same level of respect and reverence as they give Carrie Mae Weems or Carrie James Marshall, who are huge contemporary artists. That really is the goal.
- [25:06]
April Callahan
And the archive is going to go a long way towards achieving that. And we've seen it with fashion, too, and obviously these are intimately connected. But we have seen a shift over the last decade or so where people are really starting to realize the incredible impact of fashion and beauty culture. And it's always been there. We've always appreciated. Right. But you can't deny it when millions of people are going to see fashion exhibitions or are following the Netflix reality makeup shows. This is something that speaks to us all and that we all really connect with. So I think Black Beauty Archive certainly is an extension of that, but is really going to go a long way in helping to push that narrative forward. So super excited to see see how you continue to grow. Now let's dig into the archive and learn more about some of the things that are actually in it. What are some of the stories that these 1400 plus, objects tell us about the history of black beauty culture and its trajectory across the 20th and 21st centuries. And maybe you could start with the oldest object that is in the collection.
- [26:08]
Camille Lawrence
Sure. So one of the major themes that we see throughout the archive are stories and histories of migration. Right. And as people and black folks are migrating across the US and across the world, what stories and cultural practices are they taking with them? And it's been so interesting and unique to see what folks in the Midwest are calling a hairstyle, in juxtaposition to hairstylists in New York, in juxtaposition to folks in Miami. Right. And how so much of those demographics have influenced what beauty is doing. One of the early pieces that we have in the archive was actually donated by my good friend Somerset. She donated her grandmother's hot comb from the 1930s. Her grandmother was a beauty practitioner. And seeing the apparatus of that original hot comb, I was like, these are the old school hot combs that have the rounded base where it heats up really intentionally. And it's interesting to even see the electrical cord and the patent stamp on it, like heavy duty quality metal compared to the little thin flat islands we have now that break in a second. So firstly, seeing the quality of what beauty products, how they were intentionally made with high quality materials, that's number one. So number two, we also see the evolution of the packaging over the years, which is very much so influenced by the marketing ads that we see across the magazines and the television commercials. A lot of our research requests come from academic institutions, marketing majors, political science majors, cosmetic science students, cosmetic chemists, beauty professors, even lawyers, folks at the fda. A range of people are engaging and requesting access to different materials. So we're seeing migrations, we're seeing the evolution of the quality of products over time. We're seeing the evolution of packaging. Things going from really big and bulky that may have been stationary in the home and stationary in the salons. And then things are becoming very sleek and carrying on the go. We also see the evolution of loose powders into pressed powders, liquid creams into cream, to powder packages and foundations and things of that nature. We're also seeing the evolution of weaving. We have a lot of wigs and weaving materials and what the styles were at the time. So, for example, Naomi Sims was an amazing model, and she actually retired at the age of 24, 25 with her modeling career. She then went on to open up different beauty practices. She published beauty health books, and she launched a series of wigs. And we have those original wigs Brand new, never opened.
- [28:45]
April Callahan
Interesting.
- [28:46]
Camille Lawrence
Yeah. To see the way that they were tightly curled, opposed to. What are the curl trends that change over time? What are the texture trends that black women are looking at and adorning themselves with wigs? We also see a lot of political movements, right? These beauty salons and barbershops being a place for political practice and also healing practice. So we see that different salons are holding spaces and fundraising for the first political campaigns. These beauty salons are fundraising to fund the first local councilmen and councilwomen, assembly, women mayors, et cetera. We're also seeing beauty salons and barbershops come together to raise funds for children's education. We're seeing barbershops really use their space for diabetes testing and heart health for men who aren't comfortable to go to medical practitioners. So we also see how sacred these places are for folks who are attending in community. And then we also are able to study the evolution of what is education for beauty practitioners, right outside of the people who are consuming or receiving the services. We have tons of educational pamphlets, VHS tapes. We also had a huge donation last year from Loops Recycling and Recovery, my husband's company. There were some homes of beauty practitioners who had passed, and his team recovered huge bins. And when we go through the bins, you see product order forms and customer receipts. And so we've started studying over the span of 30 years, what type of styles are people ordering and what type of products are these communities consuming? Even down to the evolution of the educational pamphlets, how they went from huge books to small pamphlets that you can put in your pocket on the go. So it really shows how, although some of these products rolled out for professionals or to be used in domestic or communal spaces, we're seeing the rise of the consumer. Right. And beauty adjusting and shifting to serve women on the go. These, even the bullet lipsticks, you know, like seeing how women are entering the workforce and creating compact beauty products for them to use as they navigate lashes, everything. So it's really interesting, but I think the biggest takeaway is really the migration of people and how the beauty industry is responding to the needs of the consumer.
- [31:02]
April Callahan
Yeah. And you mentioned Naomi Sims, who our listeners will probably recognize because she's one of the first black supermodels of the 1960s. And I did not know that she retired so early. And I love that she parlayed her success into to a successful career outside of the modeling industry. But tangential to it.
- [31:26]
Cassidy Zachary
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April Callahan
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Cassidy Zachary
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April Callahan
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- [32:30]
Cassidy Zachary
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April Callahan
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April Callahan
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- [33:48]
Unknown
Yeah, sold it to Carvana.
- [33:50]
April Callahan
Oh, I thought you were selling to that guy.
- [33:53]
Unknown
The guy who wanted to pay me in foreign currency, no interest over 36 months. Yeah, no. Carvana gave me an offer in minutes, picked it up and paid me on the spot. It was so convenient.
- [34:05]
April Callahan
Just like that?
- [34:06]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [34:06]
April Callahan
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Unknown
None.
- [34:08]
April Callahan
That is super convenient.
- [34:10]
Camille Lawrence
Sell your car to Carvana and swap. Hassle for convenience. Pickup fees may apply.
- [34:17]
April Callahan
Who are some of the other significant figures in the development of the black beauty industry? We've also recently done an episode on Madam C.J. walker with her great granddaughter, A'Lilia Bundles. Obviously an incredibly important person in that trajectory. But is there anyone else that you would like to mention in terms of helping to develop that industry throughout the 20th century?
- [34:39]
Camille Lawrence
Absolutely. Another woman that I really wanna lift up is Rose Morgan. At one point, Rolls Morgan had more salons per capita than anywhere else in the world. And Rose Morgan was really building on the shoulders of Annie Malone and Madam C.J. walker and providing high quality beauty services to clients. She not only had amazing successful salons and was really keen on education and entrepreneurship. She also rolled out a product line and also ventured into colognes and fragrances. She ends up marrying boxer Joe Louis and ends up using her. Using her husband as the model. Look here, sir, you are going to be the model to get all these men to buy this cologne. And we actually have some postcard promotional mailers preserved in the archive of him posing with the cologne. And it's hilarious to see. You can tell that Rose is very intentional and on set because, you know, he's a super masculine boxer and she has him in a soft pastel shirt like she understands the marketing. He's holding the cologne up in a very, like, statuesque way. So that's been a really interesting piece to see, right. How these entrepreneurs back then were promoting their products across the nation. I also very much so love, love the work of Willy Moreau. Willie Moreau was an American barber and an inventor who worked in the hair care industry. He has a ton of patents. He is also known for patenting the Afro pick and so many other cosmetic tools. I've done a lot of research and if he is not the one, he is definitely in the top three of individuals who hold the most beauty patents, period. Wow. So he is a legend. And his daughter, Cheryl Moreau, she's alive and well and she continues to preserve his work. But Willy Moreau is someone who's very intentional. And in our hair tool collection, we have a range of Afro picks from the 60s until the early 80s. And seeing the evolution of how those pics were also influenced by his patents. And it's so unique to see them go from very long, the ones you keep at home, to smaller, compact hair picks that have mirrors inside that are promoting the Jheri curl. It's so interesting to see how all of these innovators are creating products. I also really want to lift up Floyd Kenyatta, as I mentioned, who was the first black national artist for Paul Mitchell. And after apartheid was abolished in South Africa, Floyd Kenyatta, if he was not the first, he was one of the first to hold an integrated room of people where no one was segregated anymore. And I think that just really affirms the power of beauty to bring people together, the power of artistry, to really be a catalyst, to have conversations across cultures, across generations. And so these are names that aren't widely known or spoken of in the industry, but very much so need to be. Also, Carol Rashid is an amazing Hollywood makeup department head who just finished the makeup for the Color Purple and has done so much phenomenal work. And I think about women all the time, like Carol Rashid, who's the Hollywood makeup department head, and Carla Farmer Jackson, because they are mentors in the industry. They don't just run these huge departments and help spearhead the imagery that we consume. They also really work with a lot of young folks to help them break into the industry. And I think that's another real intentional purpose of Black Beauty Archive is to provide those primary sources and to provide mentorship and scholarship for young people coming in to connect with those who have already broken the barriers and broke the doors open. In 2021, we had a scholarship that we gave to a young woman named Ariana Green, and she had a full year of mentorship with Carla Farmer Jackson.
- [38:30]
April Callahan
Wow.
- [38:31]
Camille Lawrence
And that was so powerful because Carla educated her so much, helped her get into the union, helped her develop her kit, helped her really strengthen her customer service skills, and also helping her create a career to break into TV and film, which is not easy. And so, aside from us having primary sources for people to explore and be inspired by, we are also in relationship with these beauty practitioners to connect them to the youth, to connect them to folks who want to grow in this industry.
- [38:57]
April Callahan
I am in awe. I had no idea about the size and impact of the archive because I think this is so incredible that this is really a living, breathing practice for you. As much as it is about collecting things from the past, you're also focused on the present and inspiring people to. To join the industry in the Future. I mean, this is really remarkable, Camille.
- [39:23]
Camille Lawrence
Thank you. I understand how much being a makeup artist has given me so much self confidence and being able to connect with people and affirm my existence. And I think there's nothing more powerful than having tools accessible to reinvent yourself and to express yourself. I'm very simple sometimes with my clothes and my fashions and have almost a monochromatic closet, but I'm like, as long as my face is beat and my hair is done, I can go the world. I want people to feel encouraged and empowered in knowing that Kevin aucoin says there are no rules when it comes to beauty. And also Mama Ru, like, we're born naked and everything else is drag. I want people to feel empowered to products, my vision. I see people activating the archive on their phone and doing their makeup when they're getting ready to go to OTA in New York City in the ball scene. And I see Hollywood hair department execs using the archive to build, like, period pieces for new movies. I want to make sure that people can activate it in every way. We even have middle schoolers who were in Florida who were putting together a doll exhibition and hair magazine exhibitions at their middle schools. Everyone and their mama and grandma, I want them to feel encouraged to use it. And that's why it's taken a bit for us to publish it, because I was really intentional about building a platform that was accessible for seniors, for young folks, for people who are not familiar with technology. There are a lot of what we call in archives dams. Those are digital asset management systems that exist, but a lot of them were a little too rigid in the creativity and the fluidity of people navigating the database. And so I just appreciate everyone's patience and taking time to access the materials. And it's also at a point where we can't handle the influx of research requests that's coming in. So I was like, you know what? It's time to give this over to the community.
- [41:16]
April Callahan
Yes, it really is an incredible gift. I want to go back to something you mentioned. I mean, you've mentioned no rules. Now. You've also brought up men's beauty culture, which I think is really interesting. And I think this speaks to why you're collecting ads or the significance of the ads you're collecting as well, because those ads really do track changes in social values, changes in attitude towards men's beauty culture. And I think men's beauty culture is significant because there is still that stringent, I would say, in our society. It's Changing. But there is still that hold on. Beauty and makeup is for women and not for men. But I think if you go back into the ads in your database, you're going to see that it's not always been the case. Can you talk a little bit about men's beauty culture and how it's represented in the archive?
- [42:03]
Camille Lawrence
In the beginning of the advertisements that we're seeing in the 40s and the 50s, we're seeing very stoic men in suits actually being swarmed by women. A lot of times it wasn't just one woman present, it was two or three women present, right? To kind of advertise to men. If you use this Duke or Murray's pomade, you're gonna be, you're gonna have all these women. And that's in the 40s and 50s. In the 60s, we see a shift of the Black is beautiful movement. We see that through the Grandassa model spearheading it. We see it, the black is beautiful movement. And so we're seeing now the hairs that were once permed and slicked into waves. They're now mini Afros and larger Afros. And we even see some of the aesthetics where, like the larger the Afro, the more stoic the man, which is also reflective of West African cultures and Caribbean cultures, where our hairstyles very much so are informative of status and where we are in our life and what we're going through at the moment. And then also you see a lot of these ads alongside the way that they're laid out in the magazines. For example, you may see an article about a man who's a businessman and entrepreneur. And these beauty brands were intentional because they would either place that ad in the front cover, the back cover, or right after the COVID story to kind of almost influence in a way like you too can be successful if you wear your hair this way or style your hair this way, or have love. I think one beautiful thing that we don't see very much now in media is love. And after a While in the 60s into the 80s, we see a lot of love centered ads where men are loving themselves, fathers and sons together, fathers, mothers and their children together. And showing that intergenerational beauty practice is really powerful and intentional. When we get into the 70s and the 80s, they're very much still diving into more bright colors and gender bending attire, right. Or non, non binary attire that wasn't once before. And so it's really interesting to see the ways in which they start accessorizing themselves. You're seeing more watches, more Jewelry, more exaggerated mustaches and sideburns, and all of these little elements where you can tell that those men are now taking active agency. And I want to add a little flair and a difference to me what sets me apart from these other men. But then there's an interesting shift in the 90s where you're seeing some men bald. We're seeing a lot of bald advertisements of sheen and hydration for the scalp. And then we're also seeing a lot of commercials where men are like, I can't look dark and natural. I can date Sally on Monday and then I can date Jessica on Tuesday. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. As in showing the longevity of how long their hairstyle can last to get them more dates. So as the evolution over time showed, it still feels like it was centered in love and very affirming practices. I think the. Some of the ads I feel like that have gone more outside of the scope are the cologne advertisements, right? We have interactive historical timelines, and we built one for Hip Hop 50. And we're thinking about people like 50 Cent and Usher, some men who are very hyper masculine in their songs and their videos. But in the ad, you're seeing a softer side of them, right? I think they're being more intentional in the 2000s about showing a softness to them that. That feels more approachable for women or that women can connect with. And the, even the photography of how you see them. Like, for example, Usher is. Is leaning and tilting his side on his hands, looking very gentle, intimate. 50. There's like a white linen shirt draping over him in a very, like, sculptural way. So to see masculinity is at the center, but I definitely feel like you see a range of it, you see the softness, you see the playfulness, you see the intergenerational role of it. But I also think that's also dependent on the lens of how people are viewing the materials. I'm a woman and I'm a straight woman, but there may be non binary men, there may be trans men, there may be other folks who look at those ads and have a different perspective. And that's why now I've been supporting our queer communities. And depending on how you identify, as you're navigating the archive, you may see, see yourself represented or you may not. And so that's why it's really important and intentional to us now at BBA to expand the archive to be inclusive of all gender identities for black folks. Especially when I started this, clearly I was just Building it from the perspective of a makeup artist and a straight woman. And now that we have so much more, I believe when folks are alive and well, they should come in and tell their own story. So I'm in conversation with trans women, trans men, people who are my siblings, my aunts, my uncles, my community to tell a fuller, inclusive narrative. I want to encompass the fullness of what is black identity. And it's not a monolith. It can't be explained from a stereotype. And that's also really the role of Black Media Archive is to correct the wrongs, to fact check the historical inaccuracies and the stereotypes that have been projected onto us that are furthest from the truth. And that's really important for me to know that there are a huge range of black identities. We have the most, most ethnic diversity in the world. So when I hear the word exotic or unique, I'm thinking about us. And I want people to be able to see that beauty and also be inspired by it. I want to also clarify, like, because everything is black here, it doesn't mean that everybody else can't come and learn with us. Right. We all consume black culture. Everything is hip hop now. Everyone is influenced by black music and style and this. We should do our due diligence and be welcomed into the Black Beauty Archive space to learn the origins of that and the roots. There are levels to this, and I think it's beautiful for us to understand that we have a lot of natural hair queens and they's and thems like myself now. And we're seeing natural hair in shows like Insecure and a lot of other shows on tv, but that wouldn't be without people like Julia Walker. Julia Walker was a lead hairstylist, and she was Whoopi Goldberg's key hairstylist throughout the duration of her career. And she advocated for Whoopi to be able to show up with Whoopi's locks and wearing her natural hair. And so I want folks to learn about people like this, especially with the Crown act being passed in different states and how powerful that is. The Crown act is a law that's put in place to help push back against discrimination on the basis of hair for black folks and in school and education.
- [48:33]
April Callahan
Actively happening.
- [48:35]
Camille Lawrence
Yeah. And it hasn't passed in all states. Right. And so I will. I. I do have a lot of faith that Black Beauty Archive is not only a source of inspiration, of learning, but also affirming identity and affirming that these are our ancestral practices that everyone has partaken in we should be able to also see ourselves in, in beautiful and authentic ways.
- [48:56]
April Callahan
This is just incredible. This is an incredible resource. And so as you spoken to, so multi tiered and so intentional with everything you do that it's going to be really exciting to just watch you continue to grow and expand. Before I let you go though, I would love to hear if there are any pieces in your collection that are particularly meaningful to you that you have not spoken on. And are there any dream objects that you have on your wish list for the archive? Because you never know. Someone listening might just have it in their collection.
- [49:26]
Camille Lawrence
Let's start with dream objects. I love Patti LaBelle. And Patti LaBelle had a short collaboration with Flori Roberts and she also had a small. Oh, Gladys. I'm trying to think if it was Gladys Knight. There was another artist who had a small line with a hair company. There's so much that I don't know. And the dream is to be able to learn more about what I don't know. Right. And being in conversation with those folks who are alive and well, they will shine a light on the things that need to be included. These elders, I'm a lot of my best friends now in full transparency. They're over the age of 65, everywhere. The beauty industry and ballroom, in academia, in the art world. They're over 65. And I'm really big on intergenerational work because it makes sure that no stone is left unturned. I'm a millennial and I want to make sure that I can speak to the generations before me to help lay the groundwork for everyone who's coming behind me. And also as a black woman, Sankofa, I very much so believe in Sankofic practices. We have to understand our past in order to move forward. But I'm one of my favorite people. I love Patti LaBelle. I would love to get some objects in the archive around Patti because Patti is such a huge beauty icon, like hands down, period, and is still gracefully 80 years old, stepping out with super razor sharp bobs and beat for the guys. Like I am obsessed with Patti LaBelle. So I'm hoping to acquire more just history about Patti and thinking about pieces in the collection that are meaningful to me. I. It changes like month to month. To be honest. It definitely changes. But right now I can say being able to look back at the work that I've done. When you're working in the beauty industry, you're going running next press event, next tour, especially when you're working with artists and you don't really sit down and take time to look back and whoa, this is the work I've done. This is amazing. For example, being able to look back at the apparel I had as a Mac girl and the jewelry that I collected from passing different artistry certifications and even just the Polaroids of being on tour behind the scenes, those things are really nostalgic to me and affirming and reminding me to keep doing the work.
- [51:44]
April Callahan
So you've made it very clear how important community is to the archive. And this being a living, active archive, how can people reach out to you, contact you? If they have things that they would like to donate or people they would like you to talk to, you can.
- [51:58]
Camille Lawrence
Stay connected with us on social media platforms. On Instagram, we are Black beauty archive. On TikTok, we are the same handle. You can also go to blackbeautyarchive.com There is a contact sheet and there's a form submission sheet if you want to make donations or if you want to just schedule time to have a chat. I don't want people to be intimidated by the word archive. I think sometimes that's off putting to different folks. But we are very much so open to preserving oral histories because a lot of books we have in our collect too are just older women who published books who were cosmetologists and may not have a big name. So we're always looking to preserve the stories of people that we don't know we're not familiar with. So if it's your grandma, your auntie, your uncle, someone who you know and love, who's the great beauty practitioner, or even if it's a beauty memory that you want to share and submit, we're definitely open to that as well.
- [52:50]
April Callahan
Yeah. And I'm just going to put this out there, and I'm sure it's already on your mind, but a book, definitely book, at least one book is in your future, if not a series of books in your future series and series.
- [53:02]
Camille Lawrence
Of coffee table books. One of my favorite authors is Toni Morrison. I'm a child of Toni Morrison and she published the Black Book. And that is definitely a grounding influential piece of literature that's influenced how we've built the archive. And so we want to do series and series of books. As an archivist, you know, it's just always taking the right steps of integrity to make sure you get the right copyrights and licenses. And if the folks are alive and well, me want to make sure we're getting conversations and excerpts from them. But we did have our first exhibition at Art Basel in collaboration with Amazon prime for the show Riches that had one season which I wish they renewed. We've had our first exhibition and I'm hoping that we can continue to have more pop up exhibitions across the US and publish more physical print material so people can learn more and feel nostalgic and excited with us.
- [53:52]
April Callahan
There is so much more to come. Thank you so much for sharing your incredible archive with us today. This has really been a wonderful experience.
- [54:00]
Camille Lawrence
Thank you so much Cassidy. I appreciate it.
- [54:03]
Cassidy Zachary
Thank you Camille for taking us behind the scenes of the Black Beauty Archive which will be available to the public early next year.
- [54:11]
April Callahan
Yes, in February 2025 to be exact. But in the meantime you can head over to blackbeautyarchive.com you can sign up for the newsletter and you can also head over to Instagram and TikTok and follow along at the Black Beauty Archive. So many exciting things coming your way from this incredible archive in 2025. And on that note dress listeners, that does it for us today. May you consider the influence and impact of Black Beauty culture in your life and the world around you next time you get dressed.
- [54:44]
Cassidy Zachary
Remember, we love hearing from you, so feel free to reach out to us us@hello dressedhistory.com if you'd like to send us an email. Dressedhistory.com is also our website where you will find more information about our upcoming classes, tours and anything else we have up our finely tailored sleeves next.
- [55:02]
April Callahan
Yes, and actually there's a lot of things coming your way dress listeners. We are very close to opening registration for our next Dress the School of Fashion online course which we're going to coach teach in the early early months of next year. And that's going to be on the 1950s Golden Age of Haute Couture. And we will be posting that next week or in the next two weeks. And then in the next two weeks also I would be expecting us hopefully to be announcing officially our dress Fashion history 2025 tour of Paris. So very soon if you want to get on that list it is expected to sell out very quickly. If you want to be among the first to to know about it, send us an email and you will get on that list.
- [55:42]
Cassidy Zachary
And you know again we would love to see you all in Paris. Also I would love to see you in New York City because my fashion history tours of the Met are back. You can head over to DressedHistory.com and sign up either for Tuesday mornings with me at the Met or Friday evenings. And I also just want to mention that I can do tours for your group or organization at other times, so you just need to connect with me in advance to get that all set up and you can do so@hellorusthistory.com and.
- [56:12]
April Callahan
Of course if you would like to find visual content connected to each week's episodes, you can follow along on Instagram restorepodcast. The content specifically connected to this week's episode can be found at dressed525 and also the holidays are just around the corner so if you want to head head over to our dress bookshelf@bookshop.org shop forward slash dress. You can check out more than 150 of our favorite fashion history titles. We also will link to that in our show notes so you can buy some holiday gifting for yourself or send your loved ones your wish list.
- [56:47]
Cassidy Zachary
Yes, you can also do that with our class. Just have your loved ones shoot us an email@hello dresshistory.com and we could give you potentially a class credit as well for the holidays.
- [56:57]
April Callahan
Yes, absolutely.
- [56:58]
Cassidy Zachary
Love dress but want to skip the ads? Consider subscribing to the ad free version of the show for just $3 a month and you can find a link to do so in our show notes. As always, thank you for your continued support. More dressed coming your way soon. Dress the History of Fashion is a production of Dress Media.
- [57:23]
April Callahan
Yeah, sure thing. Hey, you sold that car yet?
- [57:27]
Unknown
Yeah, sold it to Carvana.
- [57:29]
April Callahan
Oh, I thought you were selling to that guy.
- [57:31]
Unknown
The guy who wanted to pay me in foreign currency, no interest over 36 months. Yeah, no. Carvana gave me an offer in minutes, picked it up and paid me on the spot. It was so convenient.
- [57:44]
April Callahan
Just like that.
- [57:44]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [57:45]
April Callahan
No hassle?
- [57:46]
Unknown
None.
- [57:47]
April Callahan
That is super convenient.
- [57:49]
Camille Lawrence
Sell your car to Carvana and swap Hassle for convenience.
- [57:51]
Cassidy Zachary
Pickup fees may apply.