← Dressed: The History of Fashion
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- [00:01]
Cassidy Zachary
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- [00:20]
April Callahan
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- [00:42]
Cassidy Zachary
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- [00:58]
April Callahan
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- [01:13]
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- [01:43]
April Callahan
The History of Fashion is a production of dress media. With over 8 billion people in the world, we all have one thing in common. Every day, we all get dressed.
- [01:58]
Cassidy Zachary
Welcome to Dressed the History of Fashion, a podcast that explores the who, what, when of why we wear. We are friends, fashion historians and your.
- [02:06]
April Callahan
Hosts, Cassie Zachary and April Callahan. Well, well, well. Dress listeners, buckle up because this is about to be a wild ride. Truly. So, Cassidy Claire Zachary, in all the years that we have known each other, did you ever think that the words Charles, James and Walmart would come out of my mouth in the same sentence? And I do mean Charles James the fashion designer.
- [02:34]
Cassidy Zachary
No, April Dawn Callahan, I had never anticipated hearing those words come out of your mouth, but I'm pretty sure you now have many of our listeners attention.
- [02:43]
April Callahan
Well good, because this little quest that I have been on is where a lot of my attention has been directed for the last few weeks. So back in September, we received a curious email from one of our listeners Helen S. The email was entitled Charles James Question and it's not particularly uncommon for some of our listeners to shoot us questions or request episodes about particular designers, et cetera. And we always do our very best to answer when time allows. So I skimmed Helen's query. I left it in our email inbox to get back to when I had a chance. And Cass, would you do the honors of sharing Helen's email with our listeners?
- [03:24]
Cassidy Zachary
Absolutely. So Helen writes. Hi April and Cassidy. I'm a longtime listener your podcast and appreciate everything you do. Thank you Helen. And when I found something of interest recently, I knew you were the ones I hope to consult. I spent a long weekend in Gloucester, Massachusetts this summer and I popped into several of the antique and vintage stores. While there, in one of the stores Bananas, I came across a pair of tailored shorts with the following tag which reads Charles James Shop Fifth Avenue. The materials tag is no longer legible, but it feels like some kind of natural fiber poplin. They are in fantastic condition, especially considering their age. I did some research online, but all I could really find was a similar question to mine posed in the Vintage Fashion Guilds forum regarding the same label. The response from Lynn seemed the most informative, especially considering the citation notes quote a bright yellow and black tag. I wanted to see if you two might know something about this label or shop and whether there is some connection to the Charles James Some additional photos of the shorts below and please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you Helen NYC well, thank you.
- [04:34]
April Callahan
Helen very much for your very fun listener mail question and dress listeners. The photos Helen attached are a close up of the tag which is in the waistband of the shorts, and additional photos of a pair of dark brown Bermuda shorts. I would guess that they're cotton just from the photos and there's nothing particularly special about them. They're just a regular pair of men's shorts, the kind that one would completely expect to find at any given thrift shop pretty much anywhere in the world. Or are they dun dun dun.
- [05:10]
Cassidy Zachary
Yes, hold on to your fashionable hats dress listeners because they things are about to get a bit bizarre. And I have to say when I first saw Helen's email come in and we do read, as we've said many times, we do read all of your emails. We do our very best to respond to them. And so I saw Helen's email come in, I did a very quick search because this piqued my interest immediately. So I did a quick search for this label and I found just through just kind of casually looking Some obscure boutique in middle America in the night in a 1950s ad or something came up. And then I made the mistake of dismissing it as, oh, there just must be another Charles James out there. And he happened to open a boutique. Big mistake.
- [05:54]
April Callahan
Yeah, well, Cass and I chatted about it, and you know me, I love a good fashion history mystery. And it had been quite some time since we had done one of our what's in your Closet? Episodes. And curiosity got the best of me and I was like, oh, you know, even if they aren't the Charles James, that could also make a fun listener mail what's in youn Closet episode. So I started tugging on that thread a little bit further. And here we are. Friends.
- [06:21]
Cassidy Zachary
Yes. And first, before we kind of dive in, perhaps we should explain why this query was interesting to us by way of explaining for any of our listeners who might be unfamiliar with Charles James or need a little bit of a refresher about who he was and his relevance within fashion history. And April, some of our listeners may recall that we did an episode all the way back in 2019, just six years ago. Where does the time go? And this episode was on Charles James with Timothy Long, who was then a curator at the Chicago History Museum. And they had done this fantastic exhibition on Charles James. But that was now, as I just said, six years ago. So maybe we could all use a little bit of a refresher on one of the most innovative and also controversial designers in history.
- [07:06]
April Callahan
Okay. Born in 1906 in Surrey, England, to the wealthy American heiress Laura Brega and her military husband, Colonel Ralph Hawes, James young Charles grew up on both sides of the pond, so to speak. He would spend some time in Chicago, where his mother's family was from, but he was largely educated at some of the most prestigious boys schools in the uk. At Harrow School, he became close with both the soon to be writer Evelyn Waugh and the all around bon vivant and creative genius Scott Cecil Beaton, who would actually remain one of his closest friends for the rest of his life.
- [07:43]
Cassidy Zachary
And Charles dabbled in studying both architecture and music after graduating high school. But it would be another profession which would captivate him as a young man altogether. And in 1926 he established himself as a dun dun dun dun milliner of all professions in Chicago. And let's just say this was a profession his father was none too pleased about. This wasn't exactly following in his father's military footsteps.
- [08:12]
April Callahan
Quite the opposite.
- [08:13]
Cassidy Zachary
Yeah. How is he going to explain this to his friends? Right? And so Colonel James forbade his 19 year old son from using the family name for his millinery business. So Charles instead chose to call his budding business Boucheron, a name lifted from a friend. And two years later, with absolutely zero training in fashion design, not even an apprenticeship to hone his skills in dressmaking, Charles set up a short lived dressmaking establishment in New York before relocating to England the following year. So he's quite the traveler.
- [08:46]
April Callahan
And his genius and irreverent approach to fashion was readily apparent to anyone who encountered him in his work. In fact, two of his earliest supporters were fellow fashion pioneers Paul Paret and Elsa Schiaparelli. By the mid-1930s, James was designing out of both Paris and London. And against all odds, he established a reputation for his avant garde cut and construction techniques, the likes of which the world had never seen. His friend, group and client list read like the who's who of both American and British society. He was palling about not only with Beaton, but also the likes of Jean Cocteau, Salvador Dali, all the while dressing the likes of Chanel, Schiaparelli, Gypsy Rose Lee of all clients and socialites like Lady Mosley, Nancy Cunard, Babe Paley and Millicent Rogers.
- [09:37]
Cassidy Zachary
Widely revered among his fellow designers, James was never officially designated as an haute couturier. And this is a fact which mattered little to Cristobal Balenciaga, who once said of James, quote, charles James is not only the greatest American couturier, but the world's best and the only dressmaker who has ever raised it from an applied art form to a pure art form. End quote. And Balenciaga was not the only master haute couturier who shared this opinion. April. Right?
- [10:06]
April Callahan
Yes. So, okay, by the end of this episode, it's going to become readily apparent that I have full, fully tumbled down a rabbit hole a bit. I also found this quote, supposedly from Christian Dior, saying that he worked for and or apprenticed for Charles James for some point. And I texted you, I was like, did we know this? Did this information just completely fall out of my brain? So I'm going to tell you a little bit about this cause it's quite interesting. There's this book by Sir Francis Rose called Saying Life and he quotes Dior in telling him, quote, unquote, One day I saw some camel coats and day dresses in the windows of Lord and Taylor. I was so knocked out by these coats I had to find out who did them. Then I bugged every contact I had to get to Charles James and kept writing him Long pleading letters. And he kept saying there was no room at the inn. Eventually, I packed some books and a lunch and went to the Sherry Netherland Hotel, where he had this very elegant atelier. And I camped outside of his door to until 1 or 2 in the morning. Finally, he threw open the door and said, oh, all right, come on in. And I started with him the next morning. What?
- [11:17]
Cassidy Zachary
Yeah.
- [11:20]
April Callahan
Okay. What we do know is that James did have a working relationship with Lord and Taylor in the 1930s. So it could possibly be true that Dior did a short stint with James. I don't know though, because also I looked into the veracity of this memoir a bit and there's some jokes by critics that call it saying lies, right? Not saying life. And it's kind of widely acknowledged to contain these wild exaggerations on Rose's part to enhance his connections to the glitterati of society. So I don't know. But I did think it was interesting enough to mention in passing. It's probably apocryphal.
- [12:00]
Cassidy Zachary
When was this book published by Sir Francis Rose?
- [12:04]
April Callahan
I think it was like in the 1960s.
- [12:08]
Cassidy Zachary
Yeah, I might. I have two things to say about this because it is very interesting. I think he probably got Dior confused with another designer would be my guess versus him straight up lying. Because to. To my knowledge, and I've read quite a bit about Dior, he never went to New York city in the 1930s. I think his first trip to America was to Chicago after he launched the New look in the 1940s. But either way, it kind of leads into this fact that Charles James was this highly coveted designer, right, in the 1930s. And that is absolutely true. And what we do also know for sure about Dior and James in relationship to one another is that on more than one occasion, Dior intimated that his New look silhouette was either first done by James or that he, Dior, took inspiration from James's work in this creation of his New look silhouette from 1947. And this does make sense now, given that James is probably best remembered for his technical mastery of his evening gowns, right? Which often featured exceptionally wide full skirts maintained with sculptural understructures that are masterpieces in and of themselves. And so in demand were James's evening gowns that his clients would join long wait list to be seen by him for the privilege of spending $12,000 or more for a single custom gown.
- [13:29]
April Callahan
Also interesting, fun fact, I read while researching all of this that, you know, James's very, very famous clover Gown, apparently it weighs 50 pounds.
- [13:40]
Cassidy Zachary
Oh, my goodness.
- [13:41]
April Callahan
And the socialite who originally commissioned one of them, because I think there's more than one out there in the world, weighed 110 pounds. So she. She could barely wear it.
- [13:52]
Cassidy Zachary
Yeah. I mean, his gowns have been described as armor.
- [13:54]
April Callahan
Yeah.
- [13:54]
Cassidy Zachary
There's even actual stories of women being protected from predators because they were wearing this armored garment. And we've talked about it on the show, too, that these garments are so structural that when they're stored in museum collections, like at stores at FIT or the Chicago History Museum, they're stored upright with internalized mounts that are built specifically, specifically to hold them. And I think it's at fit, I can't remember, in storage, but there's a whole swath of Charles James gowns and the rafters hanging, and it's like, I mean, what magical paradise is this? But we digress. So let it suffice to say that James, revered by both Balenciaga and Dior, still to this day, is considered one of the greatest fashion designers of all time, particularly in the realm of innovative cut and construction. But interestingly enough, he is not as well known today. And this is something we talk about on the podcast all the time. Happened with Poiret as well, because his brand did not survive in the wake of his death.
- [14:56]
April Callahan
Yeah, there was some rumors going around about reviving it for a minute, but that kind of went a lot of nowhere.
- [15:02]
Cassidy Zachary
Please don't.
- [15:04]
April Callahan
Well, there was chatter about perhaps Zac Posen being the designer, which I could see it doing well in his hands. But anyway, again, again, that's. That's a different discussion for a different day. So what exactly are we to make then, of Helen's query about her pair of simple, somewhat average pair of dark brown men's Bermuda shorts? They really are this far, far cry from the work that defines the James aesthetic as the greatest couturier of all time, perhaps. And this is actually where things start to get a bit interesting, because a lesser known aspect of James work is the American fashion industry's ongoing quest to harness and market the talent of the quarrelsome, demanding, spiteful, and litigious Charles James. Even to some of his most socially prominent custom clients. James could be unpredictable or rude and downright mean. He was known to cut a dress off a client, you know, cut it into shreds during a fitting if the client angered him. And I read this quote that he said once of Jackie Kennedy, quote, I would have liked to have dressed Mrs. Kennedy if she had the face of a girl Instead of the face of a man.
- [16:25]
Cassidy Zachary
Oh no, Charles.
- [16:29]
April Callahan
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. I mean it's like oh yeah, everywhere. I don't remember. I don't know. Did you see the Charles James exhibition when it was up at the Met?
- [16:37]
Cassidy Zachary
I did not.
- [16:38]
April Callahan
The Costume Institute, they had some of his letters and he had like these lists of people that he hated and they, they were in the exhibition. So he was a piece of work? Let's just say yes.
- [16:48]
Cassidy Zachary
And his difficult personality was also paired with a near pathological inability to, to manage money, which we do see time and time again with these creative geniuses. And despite his sometimes year long plus waiting list of customers, he was perennially in financial straits. And this is one of the reasons for a lesser known aspect of his career and that is his decade after decade of licensing agreements and ready to wear collaborations. As early as the 1930s, James was actively licensing the rights to copy his designs to high end department stores and such as Lord and Taylor and Orbach's. And of course we know this on the show. This was a very common practice at this time within the American fashion industry who was still looking to French haute couture designers for inspiration. And most French haute couture houses license the right to copy their models and by the 1950s were actually making more money doing this than they actually were making from their private couture clients. So this was really an industry standard. Yes.
- [17:52]
April Callahan
And perhaps more interesting for our purposes today was the American ready to wear manufacturers and retailers burning desire to partner with James, one of the biggest names in fashion. And James's first official ready to wear collection debuted in 1952 with collaborations with two separate American ready to wear manufacturers. Samuel Winston, for whom he designed both casual and formal dresses and separates like jackets, blouses and skirts, and the manufacturer William Popper, for whom he designed coats and suits. The Samuel Winston collaboration did quite well between the years of 1952 and 1954 until a lawsuit was filed against James by the manufacturer for breach of contract. Samuel Winston claimed that James had not delivered the requisite designs for the next collection. And James claimed that the manufacturer was, was knocking off his designs that he was creating for them at lower price points under the name of its in house designer and dress listeners.
- [18:55]
Cassidy Zachary
We will just say that this lawsuit is so convoluted and complex that we will not go into detail about it today. But long story short, James eventually was awarded a settlement, but the amount did not even pay for his legal bills that he preferred to incur rather than simply completing the contracted designs.
- [19:13]
April Callahan
So him, he's like not gonna let it go.
- [19:16]
Cassidy Zachary
And at this time, it was a major source of intrigue in the American fashion industry and ultimately culminated in James returning his Cody American fashion critic awards, which he had several of due to a feud with Eleanor Lambert, who presided over these awards and you know, dress listeners you remember from past episodes, Eleanor Lambert is this really famous publicist, right. Really responsible for putting American fashion on the map in the 1940s and 50s. So that feud is very interesting.
- [19:46]
April Callahan
Yeah. And we have the letters between them at FIT Special collections if anybody ever wants to go and read them, they're nasty.
- [19:55]
Cassidy Zachary
So over and over again, James will find himself in these similar situations in arguments with both clients and business partners over money and miss deadlines. He simply could not get out of his own way on a path already paid for him to success.
- [20:13]
April Callahan
His money problems would again and again prompt him to enter into further ready to wear and licensing deals in order to stay afloat financially. And in the mid-1950s, he entered contracts designing ready to wear models for mid tier brands like Dressmaker Casuals Inc. Bargana and Gunther Jackal. All of which and several others predate perhaps the most surprising collaboration of his career with the discount department store Corvette in 1962. And that is with a K now. Cass, until I started researching this what's in your closet episode. Had you ever heard of this discount store Corvette?
- [20:53]
Cassidy Zachary
I haven't, no. Definitely not on my radar. I'm interested if any of our listeners like grew up going to this store or have heard of this store. I have certainly had not. It's a bit surprising because it was very well known apparently during the 50s and 60s and its founder, Eugene Furkhoff actually appeared on the COVID of both Time and Business Weekly and has been called one of the greatest merchants in history. And we are going to learn more about Fur cough and his discount department store Corvette when we return from this sponsor Break Foreign.
- [21:33]
April Callahan
I think it's about time that we get real about something. Whether we like it or not. The current pace of the fashion industry is a major contributor to environmental pollution and waste. And that is why we are huge advocates for buying pre loved items and vintage.
- [21:50]
Cassidy Zachary
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- [22:05]
April Callahan
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- [22:26]
Cassidy Zachary
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- [22:54]
April Callahan
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- [23:14]
Cassidy Zachary
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- [23:28]
April Callahan
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- [23:41]
Cassidy Zachary
Go to C-A-L-M.com dressed for 40% off. Unlimited access to Calm's entire library. Calm.com dressed and tell Calm you heard about them from me. Welcome back dress listeners. So Eugene Furkoff, who is he? Well, he was the son of a luggage retailer who tutored him in the ways of retail and this led him, his son, to launching a business venture of his own at the age of 27 after returning from serving in World War II. He named the company E.J. corvette, not after the car, but a class of naval ship. And Eugene actually added the E to EJ Corvette. So that was his initial, while the letter J came from his high school friend Joe, who served as an executive in the company. With Corvette, Eugene established a no frills discount department store with very little customer service. And this is actually quite the novel concept for this period. This period is really well known for a retail landscape and that was intended to dote on customers. Right? You had sales women there constantly offering to help you, help you find what you needed, but not the case at Corvette. And actually following Eugene's death in 1978, the New York Times wrote this lengthy article about his life his career. And they commented about how groundbreaking this concept was in the 1960s, writing, quote, the chain of department stores whose 1950s strategy of a low prices were quick turnover and high volume help shape today's retail landscape. He would not only discount, he would discount more deeply than anyone ever had, end quote. And Firkoff was really an early proponent of something called loss leader entrepreneurship. Again, very new concept to me. And this concept of a loss leader product was to discount a popular basic product such as shampoo or baby powder, discounting it so deeply that the store may incur a loss. But the low price would actually act as an incentive to bring people into the store to buy other items which had higher profit margins.
- [25:55]
April Callahan
So at this point, some of you are probably scratching your head wondering, what the hell does this have to do with Charles James? Bear with us.
- [26:04]
Cassidy Zachary
So were we.
- [26:06]
April Callahan
Over the course of the next few years, Firkoff's lost leadership concept proved immensely successful. He believed that, quote, if he could make $1 profit selling a refrigerator, he could make a million dollar profit selling a million of them. End quote. So a handful of Corvette discount department stores soon dotted the suburban landscape surrounding New York City. But his loss leader concept also got him in a bit of hot water with the manufacturers of those products that he was offering as the loss leaders. And that is because at this time, fair trade laws govern minimum prices on products which were set by the manufacturers. And this was something at the time that was known as price maintenance.
- [26:47]
Cassidy Zachary
So it's not long before Johnson and Johnson, the manufacturer of some of his loss leader beauty and cosmetic items. So you have baby powder, Johnson and Johnson's shampoo. Right? We still very much are familiar with them today. So they sued Firkoff for selling their products below the seller stipulated minimum price. Fur's quote, solution was to declare Corvette a membership organization, not a retail store. This enabled him to persuade distributors to sell him wholesale merchandise at a discount, which he would then further discount members had only to show membership cards that Corvette passed out in front of its store. So is this sounding a bit familiar to us today? Right. I mean, some of us probably still have these membership cards that we use to get our discounts at the store. And so, yeah, very, very interesting.
- [27:38]
April Callahan
Yeah, yeah, more on that soon. Okay, so cut to 1962, when Fircroft is preparing to launch his magnum opus of a Corvette location on, get this, Fifth Avenue. Oh, my God, Cass. The excitement and the scandal of a discount store on the holy grail of the Manhattan retail landscape, Fifth Avenue. It was all over the press. So it was located at 5th Avenue on 46th street, the store was five floors of discount accessories. Cosmetics, cameras, books, records, audio equipment, home appliances and you guessed it, fashion.
- [28:20]
Cassidy Zachary
On May 1, 1962, the New York Times plastered an ad across its pages loudly proclaiming, I hear there's going to be an exclusive Charles James shop when Corvette opens on 5th Avenue. Thursday, May 24th at 9:30am I don't know why I'm doing this voice, but it seems to work.
- [28:38]
April Callahan
It works.
- [28:40]
Cassidy Zachary
Exciting news for the well dressed woman of fashion. For the well suited man of the world, dazzling couture creations are her distinctive fashion wardrobes for him, exclusive designs by fashion famed Charles James at low, low prices by value. Famed Corvette.
- [28:57]
April Callahan
And while this may have been the first time much of the general public was hearing of a Charles James line at Corvette, Women's Wear Daily had been a buzz about it for months and the New York Times actually ran an article in February of 1962 entitled James to design for discount House. His styles will sell for 50 to $100. That was the title of the article. So adjusted for inflation today these prices would be around 500 to $1,000. So these are not exactly bargain basement prices that we might be expecting. But Firkoff's aim here was obviously to lure customers into the store with the prestige of the Charles James name.
- [29:41]
Cassidy Zachary
And this is actually a gambit which appeared to be in serious peril only three days before the store was open. On May 21, the New York Times published a piece on the store's coming debut which noted, quote, perhaps the only blemish connected with the fifth Avenue store is the series of emotional episodes with designer Charles James. As of the moment, Corvette officials are not certain that original James merchandise will be carried in the store. Mr. James attributes the difficulties to a lack of understanding of his methods by his employer. Corvette, he says, awaited until May 14 to place their first order. Corvette officials cringe at mention of his name and it goes on to say the full James line will probably be carried in the fall. But there is ill filling between the designer and store officials. And actually this immediately reminded me of my conversation with Timothy Long, curator of the Charles James exhibition from 2019. In that interview he talks about this info infamous moth story which James apparently showed up to a ready to wear manufacturer and I'm guessing it has to do with this, but I could be wrong. He shows up to this ready to wear manufacturer that he was feuding with. He has a glass full of live moths and while holding this above his head, he's screaming and Threatening to open it, to release these moths into this place where I'm sure there's wool everywhere. Right. If they do not change how they are producing his designs.
- [31:15]
April Callahan
I told you that was just the tip of the iceberg. This is like par for the course, guys.
- [31:20]
Cassidy Zachary
To be fair, to James's credit, I mean, it probably was quite shocking or very hard for him as someone who's a master of cut, right. Who is is so precise about how a garment fits to then translate that into ready to wear manufacturing, which at this time standardized sizing is notoriously inconsistent and all over the place. Right. So to be fair, I'm sure that was hard. But he did sign on for it.
- [31:45]
April Callahan
Yes, again and again and again. So it's a little wonder, like why did no one see these problems coming? He had a long track record of this. And the day before the opening of the Fifth Avenue Corvette store, the Times once again writes of this collaboration, calling James, quote, an American couturier of renowned talent and volatile temperament, and goes on to explain that Corvette's line with him was to bear the label Charles James Fifth Avenue Shop. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. So this is the part of the show, Cass, where we get to tell Helen that her shorts are indeed by the one and the only Charles James.
- [32:33]
Cassidy Zachary
Now, whether or not he was happy with that design. Or agreed to its production is another. Is another. Yeah. And this is a fact that these are Charles James Shop designs, further underscored by another article in the Times noting that the James line now apparently is available in stores, included sportswear, which was being offered, quote, in a wide price range and is being counted on for heavy volume. A black and white silk shirt and pant set carrying the Charles James Shop label is marked at $13.90 each. Bermuda shorts run to about 8:95. Helen, we think these are probably your shorts.
- [33:16]
April Callahan
Yep.
- [33:18]
Cassidy Zachary
And adjusted for inflation today they would have cost about $95.
- [33:23]
April Callahan
And if that was not enough confirmation, an article in Women's Wear Daily from June of 1962, again confirming the ultimate arrival of the collection in the stores, says, quote, everything from the most classic swimsuit to coordinates carry the bright yellow and black Charles James Shop hang tags. And of course we will recall from Helen's initial email that the label in her shorts was yellow and black. So Helen, Cass and I are pretty much 100% certain that your shorts are from this extremely short lived line of Charles James Ready to Wear that was offered by Corvette between 1962 and 1963. And that is because, of course, they did not renew his contract. Dress listeners I'm sure you can all identify with getting flustered trying to find a particular photo in your phone to share with a friend or loved one. Well, frustration be gone with Skylight Frame the easiest and sweetest way to share photos instantly with your favorite people.
- [34:35]
Cassidy Zachary
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- [34:56]
April Callahan
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- [35:18]
Cassidy Zachary
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- [36:08]
Cassidy Zachary
So the gamble on the part of Firkhoff of working with the notoriously difficult James to bring people into his store did appear to have paid off in March of 1963. So nearly a year into the collaboration, Women's Wear Daily noted that Corvette's Charles James line was, quote unquote, doing excellently and that the Fifth Avenue location was pulling in $500,000 per week in revenue. That's about $5.2 million per week in today's dollar. So nothing to scoff at.
- [36:37]
April Callahan
$20 million a month. Yeah, wow.
- [36:42]
Cassidy Zachary
And while the Fifth Avenue location was certainly the crown jewel in Firkoff's retail empire, its format was actually an aberration in the Firkoff's model. Most Corvette stores were single story affairs, located in the suburbs and surrounded by wide Expanses of parking lots.
- [36:59]
April Callahan
Or as Women's Wear Daily put it, quote, freestanding, conveniently situated, a no frills variety store that came to define American retailing after he built it. Referring to fur cough, Sam Walton came to New York to pick his brain. Two years later, Mr. Walton founded Walmart. Okay, so, Cass, this is when I about fell out of my chair when I read this. It seems to be that Firkoff's model for these Corvette discount department stores was the template on which both Walmart and Sam's Club, the membership club.
- [37:37]
Cassidy Zachary
Right.
- [37:38]
April Callahan
With the deep discounts, were later established. So essentially, Charles James, widely considered to be one of the greatest couturiers, if not the greatest couturier of all time, was designing for the predecessor of Walmart. And not only was Firkoff's concept of a discount department store completely revolutionary at the time, in the 1950s, especially one on Fifth Avenue, the notion that an elite fashion designer would partner with them to create a ready to wear line actually bearing their own name was more or less unheard of. So, you know, for James's part, he did go on the record, and he said that he did this because he felt like it would be good publicity for his custom atelier. But in the eyes of many, it actually cheapened the cachet associated with his name.
- [38:25]
Cassidy Zachary
Yeah. And if this sounds familiar to many of you dress listeners, this was also the case over a couple decades later when the American fashion designer halston partnered with JCP Penny. He did this in 1982 for his Halston 3 line of affordable separates. Today, however, this model has not only become accepted because it was widely scoffed at at the time within the high fashion community. Right. But today, this is accepted, but also celebrated. And I mean, April, think of all the mastige collections that have found incredible success at places like, say, Target. Target has collaborated with many, many top designers such as Isaac Mizrahi, Anna Swee, Perenza Schooler, Christopher John, Rogers Missoni. The list goes on. And in 2008, they even collaborated with Alexander McQueen. And regularly, it should be said, all of these collaborations usually sell out the day that they hit stores.
- [39:18]
April Callahan
Yeah, yeah. And I'm still kicking myself for missing out on the McQueen Target collection entirely.
- [39:24]
Cassidy Zachary
I did not know that was a thing.
- [39:25]
April Callahan
Yeah, yeah. When I was doing this, I was like, how did I not get in on that? And then I realized the date was 2008. And not only was I in grad school, I was also full time. I was also working like 30 hours a week. So I think it just like blew.
- [39:39]
Cassidy Zachary
Right over your head.
- [39:40]
April Callahan
Right over my head. So Helen, we want to thank you for your email which led us down this rather windy and surprising trail in pursuit of Charles James. It goes without saying that when we started this investigation, we did not know where this was going to go. And where it ended up ultimately was certainly not what we expected. We hope that you enjoyed learning a little bit more about the special item in your closet, Helen, and congratulations on being the owner of a little piece of Charles James fashion history.
- [40:11]
Cassidy Zachary
Yes, Helen, thank you so much for your fun inquiry and dress listeners, we're on our way to wrapping up season eight of the podcast. We're about to enter into the holiday season, but we would love to hear from you if you have more what's in your closet episodes for season nine. If you have your own wardrobe mystery, send them our way@hello dressedhistory.com we would love to hear from you. Also, April, we have some new classes that just opened up for registration last week. Would you like to share a little bit more about yours? Sure.
- [40:42]
April Callahan
So coming this January 4th and 11th, 2026, I will be offering a course that I have been promising you all for years now entitled Hard Chic the House of Schiaparelli. In two 90 minute sessions on Sundays, we will explore the life, career and legacy of Elsa Schiaparelli from her youth growing up in the Italian intelligentsia to a very difficult early marriage and her time spent in New York to her blossoming into an haute couturier after the age of 40. We're going to talk not just about Elsa herself, but also her collaborations with the surrealist artists and the design iconography of the Schiaparelli brand, which is of course alive and well today under the direction of Daniel Roseberry and Cass. I think you know this, but our listeners might not know this. Daniel is actually an alum of FIT just like us. So if you are interested in signing up for my Schiaparelli class, which is going to be, I don't know, pretty chic, I would say maybe a little bit shocking. Wink, wink. You can head over to dresshistory.com to sign up. And also if you would like to gift or receive the class this holiday season, we do have gift certificates available for not just my class, but Cassidy's class which she's going to tell you about now.
- [42:01]
Cassidy Zachary
So dress listeners, what do Marie Antoinette, Jane Austen and a young Queen Victoria have in common? Well, you can find out in my upcoming four part course what Women Wore to the Revolution 1770s-1840 40s where we are going to explore the evolution and revolution of women's fashion between the years of the 1770s to the 1840s. So we will first explore how the queen of fashion, Marie Antoinette, wielded fashion as a powerful tool during the early years of her reign, before it was turned against her during the French Revolution where she sadly lost her life. And ironically, the simple chemise gown that she made popular in the years leading up to the revolution would survive the revolution even if she herself did not, transforming into a Grecian inspired corset free gown that embodied the post revolutionary Enlightenment ideals of democracy and liberty. So those are our first two classes. For class three, we are going to move into the dawn of the 19th century and we will follow that thread over to England, where versions of the chemise gown were worn in the real and storied worlds of one of the most beloved authors in history, Jane Austen. And then class four, four, we will conclude with exploring fashions as they evolved into the 1830s and 40s. So back in artificiality, supported by corsets, petticoats. And this is all going to be explored through the lens of the early life and reign of Queen Victoria. So coming your way, Sundays after the conclusion of April's class, starting January 18th.
- [43:29]
April Callahan
Yeah. So basically just set aside a little portion of your Sundays all throughout January and maybe a little smidge into February for fashion history class.
- [43:37]
Cassidy Zachary
Yes.
- [43:39]
April Callahan
Also too, I'm so glad that you're going to do the 1830s cast, because the 1830s, in my opinion, are one of the most bizarre, completely wild, unhinged periods of fashion history, particularly in the hairstyles.
- [43:53]
Cassidy Zachary
Yeah. And I have to say too, that I am one of those people who have never liked that period. But my friend Clarissa loves that period. And I've just, I've, I've grown to really appreciate the high artificiality because we're talking about giant Gigo sleeves with tiny little waists and wide flaring skirts and then the most bizarre hairstyles you've ever seen in your life. It's so fun, it's so fabulous and I'm excited to explore it with you.
- [44:18]
April Callahan
There's some fashion magazines from the 1830s talking, giving women tips about, like, how to achieve that, like, height. And one of them was like, oh, use your bracelets, use your bracelets to. And pile your hair inside the bracelet and then, and then style your hair around it anyway. It's like 1830s bump its, I guess. Yeah, yeah.
- [44:37]
Cassidy Zachary
Right.
- [44:39]
April Callahan
Well, I think that does it for us today. Dress listeners May you ponder where those fashion history mysteries reside in your closet next time you get dressed. If you would like to follow along with the associated social media content for this episode, you can search the hashtag dressed571. That's dressed571. Please head to restpodcast on Instagram or Rest Podcast without the underscore on Facebook Facebook to check out the visual content associated with each week's episodes.
- [45:10]
Cassidy Zachary
And remember, we always love hearing from you, so if you'd like to write to us, you can do so@hellorusthistory.com DressedHistory.com is also our website where you can sign up for our monthly newsletter, our in person tours and online fashion history courses and you can check out whatever else we have up our finely tailored sleeves.
- [45:28]
April Callahan
We get so many questions from you all about our recommendations for fashion history books, so if you are interested you can always find a link in our show Notes to our Bookshop Bookshelf. So that address is bookshop.org shop dressed and there you can find over 150 of our favorite fashion history titles and.
- [45:50]
Cassidy Zachary
Do you love Dressed but want to skip the ads? You can now sign up for Ad free listening with any tier on our Dressed History Patreon.
- [45:57]
April Callahan
We are also excited to now be part of the Airwave Network and their premium ad free history subscription airwave history plus available on Apple Podcasts. The subscription brings dress and also 27 other popular history podcasts ad free for just $5.99 per month. More information on Patreon and Airwave is available at the link in our bio.
- [46:21]
Cassidy Zachary
Thank you as always for tuning in and more Dressed coming your way very soon. The History of Fashion is a production of Dressed Media.
- [46:33]
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