657: James Fox

Summary

Podcast Summary: Duncan Trussell Family Hour – Episode 657: James Fox

Release Date: December 20, 2024

In this compelling episode of the Duncan Trussell Family Hour, host Duncan Trussell engages in an in-depth conversation with renowned UFO investigator and director James Fox. Together, they navigate the intricate world of Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP), government cover-ups, and groundbreaking UFO cases that have captivated the public's imagination for decades. This summary captures the essence of their discussion, highlighting key points, notable quotes, and insightful conclusions.

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1. Introduction to James Fox and His Work [00:00 - 02:11]

Duncan Trussell opens the episode by introducing James Fox, praising his non-woo-woo approach to UFO investigation. Fox's latest documentary on the UFO phenomenon is lauded as a deep dive into what appears to be a persistent government cover-up.

Quote:

"James Fox has been in the field of exploring the UFO phenomena for around 30 years. His documentaries are incredible. They are an actual non woo woo deep dive into, into what appears to be a long running government cover up." [00:00]

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2. Synchronicity Between Drone Sightings and Documentary Release [02:12 - 04:57]

The conversation shifts to a striking coincidence: the surge in drone sightings in New Jersey coincides with the release of Fox's newest documentary. Fox shares an anecdote about receiving a humorous text from a retired Air Force colonel, questioning how Fox's timing aligns perfectly with these events.

Notable Quotes:

"I literally got a text from a United States Air Force colonel... he goes, 'James, I just wanna know your secret. How did you stage an alien invasion in conjunction with the release of your latest film?'" [02:30]

"Because we are now seeing pure gaslighting coming from our government. And not just like, we can't talk about it, but saying, maybe your eyes aren't seeing the right thing." [03:24]

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3. Government Cover-ups and Gaslighting Tactics [04:57 - 12:44]

Fox delves into the historical context of government responses to UFO sightings, citing the Phoenix Lights case of 1997. He recounts how Governor Fife Symington publicly ridiculed the sighting, deepening public frustration. The discussion highlights how government entities often gaslight the public, undermining credibility and fostering distrust.

Notable Quotes:

"It's like, we don't know who they are, where they come from, or what they want. And shall they turn to be hostile, we also have no visible means of defense against them." [12:12]

"Why is gaslighting? What's the reason?" [11:04]

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4. Exploration of Historical UFO Cases [12:44 - 25:56]

Fox provides a comprehensive overview of several pivotal UFO cases:

• Phoenix Lights (1997): Massive boomerang-shaped craft witnessed across Arizona, seen by Governor Symington.
• Socorro Incident (1964): A well-documented close encounter involving a police officer named Lonnie Zamora.
• Holloman UFO Landing Case (1964): Alleged footage of an alien craft landing at Holloman Air Force Base, suggesting government acknowledgment of extraterrestrial contact.
• Stephenville, Texas (2008): Reports of colossal UFOs leading to media coverage and public intrigue.

Fox emphasizes the persistence of these phenomena and the consistent government efforts to suppress credible evidence.

Notable Quotes:

"If you look into the Phoenix lights case in '97, that's pretty brazen." [35:58]

"They were forging the sighting, private plane, blabbing on and on about how it was like this thing. Rodger got out of control." [06:28]

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5. Personal Experiences and Safety Concerns [25:56 - 49:57]

James Fox shares his personal encounters and the challenges faced while investigating UFO phenomena. He describes instances where military personnel surveilled his activities, signaling the lengths to which authorities might go to prevent disclosure of sensitive information. Fox discusses his interactions with individuals like Ricky Sorrels, a witness in Stephenville, Texas, who experienced direct intimidation from military forces.

Notable Quotes:

"I was trying to get an interview with him... And suddenly a delivery truck randomly pulls in. We're all like, 'What is this guy?'" [53:04]

"They were men in black... they came up in his description of the whole case." [64:43]

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6. The Slow Drip Disclosure Theory [49:57 - 74:38]

The duo explores the concept of gradual government disclosure regarding UFOs, often referred to as the "slow drip" theory. Fox argues that releasing information incrementally prevents public panic and allows society to adapt to the paradigm shift of accepting extraterrestrial intelligence.

Notable Quotes:

"If if it all came out at once, I think it'd be too much. Like, if you look at my progression over the years... Summit, First. I'm pushing the envelope so hard right now that I'm just not there yet." [71:51]

"But they think that we're children. We can't handle the truth." [12:35]

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7. Current Assessment: New Jersey Drone Sightings [74:38 - 77:46]

Fox analyzes the recent uptick in drone sightings over New Jersey, describing them as SUV-sized drones exhibiting advanced technology. These drones possess capabilities such as silent hover, rapid acceleration, and trans-medium (air and ocean) operations, which defy conventional drone technology.

Notable Quotes:

"These objects are SUV size drones... They have the ability to hover, loiter forever, or accelerate from a standstill to out of sight in the blink of an eye." [75:40]

"There's not an easy explanation. And I think that's one of the reasons why everyone is just like, up in arms over it." [76:55]

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8. Orb Phenomena and Spiritual Components [77:46 - 89:07]

The conversation shifts to the mysterious orb phenomena, discussing their potential spiritual significance and varied interpretations. Trussell shares a personal anecdote about witnessing an orb in his childhood, paralleling Fox's limited public disclosures about his experiences.

Notable Quotes:

"I have a witness, and she's still around today." [87:25]

"It's like, you feel like it was a dream. Because I'm gonna go around and sound like a crazy guy." [86:53]

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9. Concluding Thoughts and Future Expectations [89:07 - 90:36]

Fox reflects on the ongoing struggle between governmental secrecy and the public's right to know about UFO phenomena. He posits that the prevailing intelligence practices aim to manage the disclosure process to prevent societal upheaval.

Notable Quotes:

"So the two main things are, one, there really appears to be a behind the scenes war happening between people who do know this stuff... and another group of people who feel like we have a right to know." [71:23]

"The other thing to consider is we have the abduction phenomenon and there's definitely something to that." [90:05]

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10. Documentary Release and Final Remarks [93:00 - 95:05]

As the episode wraps up, James Fox promotes his latest documentary, emphasizing its independent release and urging listeners to support his work. Duncan Trussell extends his gratitude, encouraging the audience to watch Fox's film to further understand the complexities of UFO phenomena.

Notable Quotes:

"It's the most independent release in the history of my 30 year career... If you like what I do and you can afford to support it, go for it." [93:49]

"Great meeting you. Thank you for your work. Everybody watch his show." [94:54]

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Key Takeaways:

• James Fox has dedicated over three decades to investigating UFO phenomena, consistently challenging government narratives and uncovering compelling cases.
• Government cover-ups have historically involved gaslighting and ridicule to maintain secrecy, undermining public trust.
• The slow drip disclosure theory suggests that governments are gradually releasing information to prevent societal panic.
• Recent drone sightings in New Jersey exhibit advanced technology that cannot be explained by conventional means, indicating potential extraterrestrial origins.
• Personal experiences and testimonies reinforce the existence of non-human intelligences, though full disclosure remains elusive.
• The orb phenomena add a spiritual dimension to UFO sightings, with numerous individuals reporting similar experiences.

Final Thoughts:

This episode offers a profound exploration of the UFO phenomenon, intertwining historical cases with current events and personal anecdotes. James Fox provides a nuanced perspective, advocating for transparency and encouraging continued investigation. Duncan Trussell facilitates a thoughtful dialogue, prompting listeners to question established narratives and remain open to the unknown.

For those intrigued by the mysteries of the skies and the ongoing quest for truth, this episode is a must-listen. It not only sheds light on significant UFO cases but also delves into the psychological and societal impacts of confronting such extraordinary phenomena.

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Note: To gain a deeper understanding and experience the full breadth of the conversation, listeners are encouraged to watch James Fox’s latest documentary, as mentioned towards the end of the episode.

Transcript

[Duncan Trussell]

Hello friends. Welcome back to the dtfh. You know I'm not going to leave you hanging, my dear loves. I'm sure a lot of other people out there would. I'm sure Mr. Beast isn't releasing anything regarding what's happening with the drones in New Jersey. But I love you and it's the giving season and today I offer you this episode with ufologist director James Fox. His newest documentary on the UFO phenomena is already number one on Apple podcasts. But if you're wondering what's going on in New Jersey or if you're interested in some actual data regarding the uptick in UAPs, then you have come to the right place. James Fox has been in the field of exploring the UFO phenomena for around 30 years. His documentaries are incredible. They are an actual non woo woo deep dive into, into what appears to be a long running government cover up. They don't want us to know what's floating around out there. But James Fox is finding out. So strap in, get ready, stop staring up at the sky just for an hour and a half and prepare to have your minds blown by James Fox. Also, you should follow him on X, James C. Fox on X and for sure download the program. It's on every streaming platform. Mr. Fox, welcome to the DTFH. It is an honor to meet you.

[James Fox]

Thanks for having me on.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh my God. This New Jersey drone thing, the fact that it is not just coinciding with my podcast, but coinciding with the release of your newest documentary. Wow. How are you feeling right now? About that?

[James Fox]

I literally got a text from a United States Air Force colonel. He's retired, but he goes, he's got a great sense of humor. He goes, james, I just wanna know your secret. How did you stage an alien invasion in conjunction with the release of your latest film of like your timing could not have been better.

[Duncan Trussell]

Couldn't have been better. It couldn't have been better.

[James Fox]

I mean it's like unbelievable.

[Duncan Trussell]

Unbelievable. And that kind of synchronicity, I don't know how woo woo you get about stuff. Cause I know that one thing I love about your documentaries is you lean into science and I love that it's so easy to get lost in the weeds in this conversation and lose all credibility and end up interviewing the wrong person and you just lose credibility because you didn't research your guest enough.

[James Fox]

Yeah, and I will lean into the woo woo a little bit.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh you got to.

[James Fox]

Just a little bit.

[Duncan Trussell]

But when you know this is a big synchronicity and oh, it's Unbelievable.

[James Fox]

This morning, somebody sent me Leader Schumer right now at the podium getting hammered by the audience, going, you don't know what it is. It's a uap. Why don't you just call it what it is? You're the one that wrote the legislation. It's a uap. He's like, we don't know what it is. He's like, yeah, exactly.

[Duncan Trussell]

Okay.

[James Fox]

It's like, this is happening right now.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, I think that's the launching off point, which is for over two decades, you've been investigating something that is clearly being covered up at every angle. And what I love about the release of your documentary and what's happening is because we are now seeing pure gaslighting coming from our government. And not just like, we can't talk about it, but saying, maybe your eyes aren't seeing the right thing. You're seeing private planes. We don't know what this is. And that, to me, is the most insidious and really, like, it gives me the ick. Because the fact that they're being so brazen in their gaslighting in this regard implies a certain level of comfort and a view of us that is like, we're like subhuman idiots that, you know, they're inviting us. Just don't look up. And if you see something, it's probably a private plane. Meanwhile, in New Jersey, people are seeing things that are freaking out their kids, freaking them out. I'd love your thoughts on this.

[James Fox]

Okay. This is incredible. I'm gonna go back in time a little bit because I remember covering this very issue back in the 90s. Okay. It was March 13, 1997. It's commonly known as the Phoenix Lights case.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, yeah.

[James Fox]

And so I covered that case probably for the better part of 10 years, maybe even a little bit longer, on and off. I was going back and forth to Phoenix. And what the amazing thing was is that you had this massive craft that was sort of a boomerang shaped, and witnesses say anywhere between a mile to two miles from wingtip to wingtip that went either very slowly or when it took off, it took off like warp speed. Like Star Trek.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

So everyone was out under the night sky to get a glimpse of the Hell Bob comet at the time. So it was witnessed by people all across the state of Arizona. And it wasn't 2 o'clock in the morning. It was like 8 o'clock, 6pm, 7pm, 8pm, 9pm it floated all across the state of Arizona. And the governor at the time, Fife Symington, Saw it. Okay. But he didn't tell people that he saw it. Instead, he holds. I don't know what it was a month after it happened. Weeks, whatever. He holds an unscheduled press conference, and he has one of his aides dressed up in an alien suit. You guys probably remember this. And he takes this guy out and. Ha, ha, ha. Oh, you know, you guys, everyone needs to calm down, like, whatever. Well, I was going around to all of his constituents, and they were pissed.

[Duncan Trussell]

Sure.

[James Fox]

Like, how dare you question what we saw. Thousands of us saw it across the state of Arizona. It was, like, spitting in their eye. Like. And I remember after, like. I think it was, like, right around 10 years, I was revamping an old film I'd done called out of the Blue. Because I'm never happy with a film when I finish it. I'm always like, never. You run out of money, you run out of steam. I remember one point, my partner was in the fetal position. His wife is looking at me. You're killing my husband. You know, And I've been there, too. So any case, I'm revamping Out of the Blue. And one of my key targets was five. Simonton. Because I'd never forgotten that incident 10 years ago where he basically was the same thing that's happening today was happening back then. Right? What is that, 27 years ago?

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

So I was pissed, and so were his constituents. And so I put out the fielder. I had, like, 10 people I wanted to get interviews with, and I got all, I think, nine out of the 10. And Fife Simonton, to my complete, utter amazement, agreed to meeting with me.

[Duncan Trussell]

Wow.

[James Fox]

You know, and I was driving it, and I remember him saying, well, you can either meet with me in Arizona and at the time I was in Northern California, or I have a place in Santa Barbara. So I was like, I'll just get you as soon as I can possibly get you. Because I know a lot of times people start to thinking, and then they go, oh, you know what? In actuality, I'm not going to meet with you. I've had that happen a lot of times. So he goes, well, I'm in Santa Barbara right now. I said, I'm getting in the car. I'm coming. I'll be there. I'll be there tomorrow.

[Duncan Trussell]

Cool.

[James Fox]

So I drive down, and I'm on the way down here, and the relevance of this story will come clear in a second. And I get about halfway down, I think I was taking Highway 101. Somewhat scenic. Well, not one, but 101. And I was like, hmm, you know, I can't think of anybody better to ask him a question than one of his former constituents and witness to the event. So I call my friend Stacey Rhodes, and she was an amazing witness. I said, stacy, you're not gonna believe who I'm going to meet with right now. And it had been almost 10 years since, you know, since the incident. And I said, I'm going to meet with Five Simons. And she's like, oh, my gosh. I said, is there anything you'd like to say to him? She goes, you're damn right on something. I'd like to say it had been 10 years, but they were so insulted. I mean, these witnesses had literally stopped their car on the freeway and, like, got out. And, you know, I mean, they were apparently on both sides of the freeway. And this object, it was between, like, it was between Phoenix and Tucson. It was on Interstate 10. And I'm told that there were people stopped on the side of the road, people driving. People stopped, and this object just floated over the top of them. And it took minutes. And Stacy Rhodes in particular said, if I had a newspaper and opened it up like that, I could not have blocked out the object. That's how big it was above their head, her and her daughter Emily. And they had one other person in the car anyway, so very good sighting, very good case. And so I grabbed my little pocket tape recorder and I recorded a statement from her that I was going to hit fife with when the time was right during the interview. So I thought, well, let me not do this. When I met with him the following day, I couldn't believe I was getting an interview with 5 Symington. And I said, let me. Let me. Let me get as much of the interview as I can before I get into this case. So about three quarters of the way through the interview, where I'm feeling pretty comfortable, I said, hey, I got a little something I'd like to play for you. And so. And he goes, well, what is that? I said, it's a recording from one of your constituents. And a witness to the event hit the play button. Hi, this is Stacy Rhodes. You know, opportunity to. To address this. Do you still feel like this is a matter for ridicule? And this, that, and the other thing, when you let us out to dry and we all these thousands of witnesses across the state and you make this mockery and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, I see him sinking down in his chair a little bit, and I didn't know how it was going to go. And then he stops and he pauses. Yes. You know what? Yeah. If I could do it differently now, I would have.

[Duncan Trussell]

He.

[James Fox]

He goes, I saw that thing, too. And that thing clearly was not of this Earth. Wow. And he goes, I'm a former captain in the Air Force. I'm a pilot. He goes, that thing was not of this Earth. And I said, well, how are you so sure about that? He goes, the size. He said it was like a mile across. And it was just floating really slowly.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

So this has been the party line for decades. Right. And that policy was sort of adopted after the White House and Capitol was buzzed on two consecutive weekends in July of 1952.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[James Fox]

It's when they had. It was a problem. Right, right. So they brought in that panel. I think it was the Robertson panel. And they basically, like, how do we deal with this? The Air Force and the Robertson panel, I think, was part of the CIA. I'll just adopt the policy of ridicule. And it was very effective campaign.

[Duncan Trussell]

But why?

[James Fox]

Why?

[Duncan Trussell]

What's the reason for gaslighting? What's the reason?

[James Fox]

I think it's. Well, it's not really working as much these days because people are starting to realize this is bullshit. Because I had a general explain to me one time, excuse me, and he looked at me almost like I was this naive young guy. This is, I don't know, 15, 20 years ago. Because I was always thinking, like, oh, isn't it amazing? We're not alone in the universe, and we have definitive proof. And what a kumbaya moment. And get together and do a group hug and yay. And he starts chuckling, and he said, you just have no idea how the military looks at this problem. And I said, well, show me. What do you mean? He goes, you guys put us in charge of protecting our airspace. That's our job. And we're not really the types of folks that want to come forward and say, my fellow Americans, it's been brought to our attention that there are structured craft of unknown origin whizzing around with impunity. They fly rings around our fastest jets.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[James Fox]

We don't know who they are, where they come from, or what they want. And shall they turn to be hostile, we also have no visible means of defense against them. Thank you and good night. He goes, absolutely not. We don't do that.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

So I think it's one of the reasons why they're calling it drones today. I mean, maybe they are, but they're calling it drones because I think UAP is a little scary. They think that we're children. We can't handle the truth.

[Duncan Trussell]

That's right.

[James Fox]

And. And so they're gonna, like, you know, downplay it, tell us that they have no idea where they're coming from yet. There's nothing to worry about.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[James Fox]

So it's like, how can you say what something isn't when you don't know what it is?

[Duncan Trussell]

Right. Well, you know, that way, the New Jersey stuff that's happening, it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable.

[James Fox]

And it's spreading more places now.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's all over the place. But I'm leaning more into some kind of experimental drone to get ready for potential World War Three. And that obviously, I don't think that discounts any of the other things that have been happening simultaneously. But what it to me emphasizes is what you're talking about. If you are skeptical that our government, if somehow you're still skeptical that our government is covering some incredible thing up that would probably transform the way we look at everything, you shouldn't be anymore. Watch Mayorkas. Watch any of these people as they basically tell you to question your own mind. That, to me, is so dark. If you unravel that, you realize, oh, obviously, if they're doing this about something, that people are filming seeing news reporters.

[James Fox]

Yeah. You're not seeing what you're seeing.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right. If they're doing that about that, then they're doing that about everything.

[James Fox]

Do you remember the. Remember Jaws?

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

You remember the movie where the public statements are making, everything's fine. There you go.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's Jaws.

[James Fox]

Yeah. You know, it's really funny. I did a film on the BP oil spill called Pretty Slick, and I spent several years going back and forth to the Gulf. I flew. Excuse me. I flew over ground zero with the ocean on fire. And I was in a seaplane with a marine biologist by the name of Dr. Carl Safina. Amazing guy. And they were doing something they'd never done before, and they were doing subsea injection with Correct. So they're pumping the ocean full of correct. 5,000ft down. So they're trying to prevent the oil from coming to the surface because they're getting fined for every barrel.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[James Fox]

So they're doing everything they can. They're hitting the slicks at night with correct. They're pumping it down 5,000ft. So there's these massive plumes of underwater oil mixed all up with this. Correct. I've never done big lab tests, and people. People are. Kids are crying on the beaches when they're, you know, you don't know where it is or how bad, you know, And I'm having the water tested and it's not super bad with a private lab at the time, but there were really dangerous levels coming back of toxic water with oil and corrects it. And not everywhere, but anywhere. Right. You don't know where it was.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[James Fox]

And they were like, beaches are safe, everything's fine, come on down. And I'm thinking to myself, they're putting the health and safety of the public ahead of the multi billion dollar tourist based economy.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, that's right.

[James Fox]

And I saw it firsthand.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yes, that's it.

[James Fox]

And that's what they do. And they think that we can't handle the truth or something like, oh, you know, we're. And hey, you know what? Even if it's a little scary, it's still reality. It's time to treat us like adults.

[Duncan Trussell]

All right, so this to me, like, you know, I love what you do because you just try to deal with what we know. And so what we know for sure is there's a cover up right now within New Jersey. Okay?

[James Fox]

No question they're covering something up.

[Duncan Trussell]

Then the explanation for the COVID up, where they don't wanna cause panic, implies a benevolence. It implies that they give a shit about us, that actually they're like, oh, you don't wanna panic people, that would be bad. Let's push that explanation off the table. What are some other explanations for the COVID up? Because I think that's where it gets really worrisome and fascinating. And I've heard some and I would love to hear your thoughts on these. One, they've already made contact. There's some kind of treaty, some kind of deal or something where they are in some weird way collaborating with whatever this is. That's one explanation. Two, the other explanation would be it's not that they're worried about causing panic, but they feel that the revelation of what these things are opens people up to some kind of actual danger. I'm just saying there's a lot of other possible explanations that aren't because they don't want us to freak out. Because there's so many other things that they show us that do make us freak out. Yeah, I don't think the freakout explanation is the right one. I think there's some other thing.

[James Fox]

Well, you know, another thing to consider. Did you watch the program yet?

[Duncan Trussell]

No, I haven't watched it.

[James Fox]

Okay, so I include a rather controversial encounter in the film. And I know that I'm gonna get Some flack, particularly from mainstream. But I justify it in the film by saying, look, you know, don't take it from me. Close Encounters of the third kind, that's when people report beings connected to the craft.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right, Right.

[James Fox]

Those are, you know, aliens or beings or creatures, whatever you want to call them. That is one of the aspects of the phenomenon that the Air Force went out of their way to try to tamp down. Right. Because it's one thing when you have an unknown object in the sky. It's another thing entirely when you got beans on the ground.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

But I included a rather controversial case in the program because I think there might be an element of. Well, okay, so one of the things that I've learned over and over and over is, outlandish as it may appear initially, a case sighting, a crash, I've learned to suspend judgment because time and time again, I've always been like, that's impossible. That's so outlandish. There's no way that's true. Now I've gotten to the point after 30 years where I go, you know what, James? Stop. Just look at the evidence, review the data, and think about the likelihood of whether this happened or not. Because the phenomenon is so complex and so profound and all over the place. Right. Imagine if they admitted what they know. Okay?

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

So that would expose the. Their vulnerabilities because there's so many things that they evidently don't know. Right. So it's like you admit. And again, I'm just gonna. Inform. Speculation.

[Duncan Trussell]

Sure.

[James Fox]

Right. Informed speculation. I'm not stating any of this as fact.

[Duncan Trussell]

Okay.

[James Fox]

But I've met with some people that I respect that are certainly in a position to know what's going on. And they've told me they're walking among us. And I've said. I said, come on, what are you talking. What are you talking about walking among us? You know? And they go. I mean, exactly. That. They're walking among us. In fact, Bob Bigelow told me that.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[James Fox]

And I didn't not believe him. I wouldn't say I believe him, but it certainly got me thinking a little bit. And so then I thought, well, so let's see, if this case happened in 1994 that I cover in the program, and it was at a Nellis test range, that's a military installation. Would that mean that there was an incursion or was there cooperation or what is that? What does that mean? This is like the depths of the phenomenon has no ends. Like, I don't know what. You know, what I can say definitively is that they know the phenomenon's real. They know it's under intelligent control. They know that the technology exhibited is light years advanced from anything that we have. And I've talked to a lot of people. Some people say we have ARVs. I have not seen that evidence. I'm not saying it's not true.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[James Fox]

But I haven't seen enough to make me say I believe that. Right now. I don't believe that. I know we have the technology. I feel very confident about that. From a couple of the crash cases that I have investigated. Roswell and more recently, Virginia's nuts.

[Duncan Trussell]

Holy shit.

[James Fox]

I know, we gotta get into Virginia. And when I came back from Virginia the last time and I was making, I was finally putting the movie together, CNN was at my house doing a special with Leslie Kane. And they were like, oh, my God, we're so excited you just came back from Brazil. Let's talk about, you know. And I said, no, actually, I'm not talking about any of that, because if I do, you're gonna tell me to up the dosage of the medication that I'm not on. Let me just put the film out and then we can talk.

[Duncan Trussell]

Okay, sorry. But before we get into Virginia, which actually does apply to what you're saying.

[James Fox]

And it does apply to the program too.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yes. Let's talk a little bit about the walking among us theory.

[James Fox]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. I could tell you a couple of other things too. Yes.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, it is an interesting thing that some people who don't reject it just out of habit, because I think a lot of people, they don't care if it's an Air Force pilot. They don't care if it's whistleblowers with great credibility saying this stuff. They've been so programmed by people like that. What's his name? Great name, by the way. The guy you interviewed.

[James Fox]

Glenn Vallogan? Or. No, Hal Puthoff.

[Duncan Trussell]

No, the Phoenix Lights.

[James Fox]

Yeah, Fife Symington.

[Duncan Trussell]

Fife. People like Fife, whether they know it or not, have engaged in a long term program of getting people to just naturally reject anything that doesn't fit into the paradigm that the federal government is offering us regarding what's happening in the skies. But the people who aren't in that category and accept, okay, there's something happening, it seems intelligent. It's been going on for a long time. For some reason, they don't make the connection that, okay, if it's an intelligent craft, a drone, whatever it may be, why do you think they would stop in the sky if I was observing, researching, or even trying to influence a civilization, then I wouldn't stop in the sky. I obviously would find a way to infiltrate power structures to figure them out. And so logically, if we're. And again, a lot of assumptions here, I'm going to assume this is an advanced intelligence relative to ours. And maybe it's too much assuming to imagine that they're like us in any way. But clearly there's some curiosity.

[James Fox]

No question they're curious.

[Duncan Trussell]

There's a curiosity. And also there's decorum happening.

[James Fox]

And they want to be seen.

[Duncan Trussell]

And they want to be seen, but.

[James Fox]

They don't want to overtly make their presence unequivocally known.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[James Fox]

So they're a little in on it as well.

[Duncan Trussell]

That's right. That's. And you know, again, pure speculation.

[James Fox]

Pure speculation. But that's pretty solid.

[Duncan Trussell]

Pretty solid.

[James Fox]

I could back it up with some pretty good cases.

[Duncan Trussell]

And at that point, that's where we get into weirdville. Because at that point, now you have to start asking yourself, and I think it's. And I don't know if this is a good practice, but if you zoom back and look at all of what's happening right now technologically on the planet, if you look at it holistically, including this uptick, this insane uptick in UAPs, then you have to ask yourself how much of the technology that we are currently using, AI, for example, the New Willow quantum chip from Google. How, if they're walking among us, how much of what we're discovering and figuring out how to do is an actual human innovation, and how much of it has been in some way influenced by these beings for whatever reason they might have for doing that. Do you ever follow. Do you ever go down that rabbit hole?

[James Fox]

Yeah. So I interviewed a guy named Philip Corso back in the 90s. He was at the 50th anniversary of Roswell. He was one of the highest level at the time, military officials that came forward and said, I saw the bodies, I handled some of the debris at the pentagon. In the 50s and 60s, it was infiltrated into these government subcontractors, Boeing and Lockheed, and whatever is what he was saying at the time. But I don't know if people were quite ready, but maybe some people were. But I guess I'd say I believed him, I guess, because if we did have it. But he said unknowingly that they were ceding the. These companies with some little bits of the technology. Right?

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

So there was that. And then I wanted to get back to them walking among us. Because this is really crazy. And it's a story that I have in the back of my mind. I've never reported on it, although I've talked a little bit about it and I think about it often and I hope something uncovers, I hope it uncovers itself at some point. But I was investigating a case when I was doing the phenomenon that happened in 1964 in Socorro, New Mexico. And it's considered to be one of the most well documented close Encounters of the third kind in U.S. history. Yeah, it was one of the cases that turned. Dr. Jalen Hynek did a 180 on because it was very, very compelling. It was a police officer by the name of Lonnie Zamora. And so I went to the town of Socorro over a five year period. I got to know his wife, his co workers, his kids. I went to the National Archives, I befriended one of the guys that wrote the book on the case. And I was really sticking my teeth into this close encounter of the third kind where there were entities witnessed at the scene. Lots of physical evidence of the ground. I mean, it was a great case anyway.

[Duncan Trussell]

What physical evidence?

[James Fox]

Imprints, burn marks in the bushes, footprints from the creatures, landing gear imprints. Other people saw the craft in the air, in and around the area.

[Duncan Trussell]

So like enough physical evidence, something happened. No one hoaxed that. No, it was like if you want the amount of energy it would take.

[James Fox]

The Air force tried for 10, 15 years to give it a prosaic explanation and they couldn't. So it was very good case. But anyway, in the process of investigating that case, I came upon an alleged landing that was filmed by the Air Force or the military at White Sands. Now, White Sands, right around the same time. It's just a stone's throw from Socorro. Yeah, and it was, it's commonly referred to as the Holloman UFO landing case. I think it's circa 1964.

[Duncan Trussell]

Okay.

[James Fox]

May, June, I don't have the exact month, but I investigated that case. It was kind of a tangent that I went off on, but I was thinking how you got a landing? Excuse me. Evidently a landing at Holloman Air force base in 1964 that was filmed. And the disk comes down and the door opens and out comes some aliens and they meet with base commanders and off they go. Now if that's true, that means we've had contact and communication with a non human intelligence dating back what, 50, 60 years? Okay, at least, at least. And we have that, that photographic proof or videotape evidence So I started kind of investigating that quietly, but I didn't really want it to be publicly known because it's so crazy, like a landing and filmed. And I thought, well, James, just, you know, again, suspend judgment. Let's keep digging a little bit.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

Because I believed Socorro had happened. Well, why not have a camera? Sure, right. So I started looking into it more. It led me eventually to two guys that made a documentary called UFOs Past, Present or Future. Alan Sandler and Bob Emmenger. Bob Emmenager just passed, unfortunately, a couple years ago. But I did do an extensive two hour interview with him. I also met with Alan Sandler and at the time of production in the early 70s, these guys had unprecedented, for whatever reason, access to all these military bases. And they just like given carte blanche to make this documentary. And in the documentary they refer to the Holman Landing case as maybe an event that might have already happened or maybe it's gonna happen in the near future.

[Duncan Trussell]

Huh?

[James Fox]

That's how they propose it. But they had again, unprecedented access to all these military. All these military people, people that were involved with Roger Blue Book are all participating in the film.

[Duncan Trussell]

So I was like, why? Why were they participating? Like if the idea is they're covering it up.

[James Fox]

Testing the waters on disclosure. I don't know. I don't know. So anyway, so I. Long story short, man, I could go on all night on this one, but I basically got in touch with both Emmenager, I got in touch with Alan Sandler, I met with them both multiple times. And Alan told me that he saw that footage. I said, wait a minute, what footage are you talking about? He goes, the landing footage at home. And I said, wait, whoa, whoa. You saw the footage of the flying saucer coming down and the aliens getting out and interacting with the base commanders? Yes. He says, I saw that footage. I said, okay, now when I want.

[Duncan Trussell]

This episode of the DTFH has been supported by Better Help. The holidays are upon us. And you know, one thing I've noticed about the holidays is there is a wonderful aspect to the holidays, but there's also a feeling of getting run over by a truck. It's like a combination, like feeling you get with a nice hot mug of cocoa and having your legs smashed to pulp by someone holding an emotional sledgehammer. This is why therapy is a great thing. You know, I know this might seem shocking to some of you, but you don't have to feel like your knees are being broken by the sledgehammer of your unresolved issues. Every Christmas. You could actually have a Christmas that's just kind of boring. Imagine that. A non emotional roller coaster where you don't have to contend with unresolved bouts of hellish grief as you're staring at the Christmas tree. This is possible and I speak from experience. I've had therapy and it works. So if you are thinking of giving therapy a try, why not try BetterHelp? It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule. You just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapist anytime for no additional charge. Find comfort this December with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.comduncan today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.comduncan.

[James Fox]

When I want to really like burn etch my memory with, with a specific case or incident, I usually close my eyes and I allow the, the witness to use his words, his or her words to recreate the visuals in my head.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

So I can really get it right. Like I want to see it. I want to be there.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

So I asked Alan. I was like, I want you to give me every detail. Was it daylight? Was it this? Was the camera on tripod? Was it? You know, yeah. And he said, and so basically what he described was a. And there are a lot of people that wrote articles about it in and around the time that it happened. There were witnesses on the base, both military civilian pilots that saw it from the air, people saw it from the ground.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

All sorts of articles around the time that it happened were written by a woman named Corral Lorenzen at the UFO Bulletin. But, but anyway, he says that there were three discs coming in. It was, I think it was early afternoon, three disks coming over the base that were followed by military jets. And then as it got over the base, the two of the discs peeled away and there was one that kind of wobbled like a leaf down to the ground. And Alan said, it looked like to me it was in trouble because it wasn't like doing very well. But evidently that's kind of how they, how those discs fly. They kind of wobble like they're unstable. And he goes, plunk lands around the base. And I. And he goes, you know, James, he goes, just like in the sci fi movies. It's like the seamless door opened and out came two. I guess for the better part it was aliens. And then the third one came out and a little different. It had a big headgear, almost like Egyptian or something. Excuse me. Vertical slits for eyes, big nose, very small chin, small mouth. And they had a. According to Alan, who saw the footage, they had a. This individual had a device that looked almost like a microphone or something, but it was. He. He assumed it was a communication device, but he wasn't sure. And then the base commanders met with them out, and then they. This one individual alien or whatever got in the jeep and they drove off to, I don't know, a bunker, whatever the hell they were.

[Duncan Trussell]

Front seat or back seat of the jeep.

[James Fox]

I know I didn't get that seat belt. What do you do? But anyway, I know. So, anyway, so I've been quietly and discreetly looking into this, and based on my belief that's leaning more in the direction that it happened than it didn't happen. I'm talking to all sorts of intel folks these days, off the record, that tell me they don't. They do believe it happened. And they know. They think they know where that footage is. And Arrow's currently looking for the footage. I know that they've heard about it, but based on that, I decided to leave the 1994 Jason Sands. And again, you haven't seen the film yet. His. His description of a face to face encounter at a military base with, if it's true, an alien. And you know, and I know that it's a slippery slope and it's a tall order to get people like. I just want to say in my own defense that it's difficult to get more information on something on a particular case without reporting on it first. So I'm reporting on it. I'm not stating it as fact, but I'm saying I believe that this might just have happened.

[Duncan Trussell]

Wow.

[James Fox]

And so, you know, again, it's like going down that wormhole of like, where does it stop? Where does the crazy end? Right.

[Duncan Trussell]

But, you know, but the thing is, once you. Once you buy in to. We have unknown craft.

[James Fox]

Yes, no question.

[Duncan Trussell]

Intelligently controlled by non human entities. Why would they stop in the sky? And to me, if you're going to accept that part, you've got to kind of accept the other part. And it really isn't that weird.

[James Fox]

And that I think somebody's piloting them.

[Duncan Trussell]

And this answers what we were initially talking about. Because here's this. What's interesting in the idea that the government's covering all this stuff up for. They don't want us to know that they don't control the skies or technology or whatever is it makes the aliens kind of this innocent party in this situation. But the Moment that there is some communication participation happening, it gets a little sinister because it would imply that these beings are instructing the governments of the world to not reveal certain bits of information. And that kind of conspiracy between an off world intelligence and the leaders of the world is pretty terrifying.

[James Fox]

So I've gotten to the point now where I feel pretty comfortable saying that whoever they are, they clearly are in on the secrecy because all they'd have to do is hover over the Macy's Day parade and it's game over, right?

[Duncan Trussell]

That's right.

[James Fox]

So they do do some pretty brazen things. I mean, you know, if you look into the Phoenix lights case in 97, that's pretty brazen. I mean, it was, you know, early enough. Oh yeah, they just flew right over. Just a whole parade of them. Yeah, so that was pretty a big deal. I mean, that happened today. There'd be a lot of footage, right? Not 2006 or 2005 or 2006 at O'Hare Airport. Are you guys familiar with that case? A disk that hover over Terminal 17? Yes, United Airlines, but please redescribe.

[Duncan Trussell]

I remember when that happened. Yes, yes.

[James Fox]

Pretty brazen.

[Duncan Trussell]

Pretty brazen.

[James Fox]

A disk that was hovering over Terminal 17, United Airlines. And for quite some time in broad daylight. It was witnessed by a lot of United Airlines workers, people on the ground, pilots, people took. I'm told that at least one photograph of it was taken. Don't know what happened to that. It disappeared, but pretty brazen. And then when the object took off, it took off vertically and it punched a donut hole in the cloud on the way out. All the witnesses described it. Wow, pretty crazy case. I mean, it's hovering over O'Hare Airport. 2005. Was that 2005 or 2006? I'm trying to remember anyway, but it's.

[Duncan Trussell]

I remember it.

[James Fox]

Great case. In fact, I was investigating that case. What year was that? I was investigating that case in 2008 and I had a whole camera crew with me and I was interviewing folks in Arizona doing some updates on the massive flyover from 1997, which was about 11 years after the incident. And I was gonna fly from there to O'Hare Airport and try to get a couple of people to go on the record or go anonymously. Come forward. Employees from United Airlines. And then a massive, massive UFO incident happened in. In Stephenville, Texas in late 2008. And I diverted my efforts from going to O'Hare, so I never really got boots on the ground there. And I went to Texas and covered that case. Anyway, instead. Okay, now, you remember that case in Stephenville?

[Duncan Trussell]

No, what was that case?

[James Fox]

Oh, my God. They said you could have landed an airplane on it. The object was so huge.

[Duncan Trussell]

Okay, I have to ask you. You know, you have a very bizarre job.

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And you live. You have to live in the fringes of things. Like, even telling people what you do is probably either gonna be met by people like me or like, hello. Or it's gonna be met by people who are like, oh, yeah, I know. There we go.

[James Fox]

I've been dealing with that my whole life. And it's fine. I get laughed at and ridiculed a lot less so these days. But.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, yeah, right. Then that's gotta feel good. But I'm wondering. Just doing this podcast where I get to interview people like you and people have very interesting stories or spiritual outlooks on the world from time to time. I feel a little wobbled. You know, I like to think of myself as someone who's like, open and open to the unknown and stuff, but every once in a while, it's too much unknown and you realize how attached you are to default reality in ways you didn't think you were. Do you experience that in your own life?

[James Fox]

My gosh. Just in the last. Probably the Making of the. Okay, so I did. For the first time. I've been doing documentaries on UFOs for 30 years.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

So I did a film called the Phenomenon. And the Phenomenon was the first documentary. And it was probably. Let's see, I did 50. See, I did 50 years of denial. Then I did out of the Blue version one out of the Blue director's cut. Then I did. I Know what I Saw. So that was like three and a half films, basically. And I'd never touched on Close Encounters of the Third Kind when I'd heard about them, but I just was a little bit of a slippery slope. I was like, sure, I'm gonna step back on that one a little bit. Well, I went all in on the phenomenon. Did you ever watch the Phenomenon?

[Duncan Trussell]

No, I haven't seen it yet.

[James Fox]

So the Phenomenon's got intel, folks. It's got former Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, got Podesta, got Republicans, Democrats. Amazing. But excuse me, I cover Close Encounters of the Third Kind. And I cover, okay, an event that occurred in 1994 at a school called Aerial School in Rua, Zimbabwe.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, ye.

[James Fox]

Africa.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yes, yes.

[James Fox]

And it was roughly 100 school children. People think there's like 66. There was more. I was there. It was more like 100 school children that were out on the field when this object came in and in and around the area of Zimbabwe, Harare, at the time, South Africa. There was. There were UFO reports, sightings by adults, by. By all sorts of people in and around the area. But this object or objects chose a school to land in broad daylight. It was on morning recess and it was like 10 o'clock in the morning and all the kids were out there playing and a number of discs came down out of the sky, landed, got out, and these little creatures interacted telepathically with the kids. Now I opted to report on this case and I really did a deep, somewhat of a deep dive considering I only, probably only spent maybe 12 to 15 minutes max in the film. Maybe 12. That was the first time I'd ever kind of gone all in on reporting on something. And let's. Like I remember like a couple years when I started to dig my teeth into that case and I had this investor and he goes, you mean to tell me there's fucking aliens landed at a school? In the aerial school? Are you kidding me? I'm not wasting a dime on that bullshit. I said, larry, hold on a second. I understand that knee jerk reaction I had to do. Just please look at this. Look at Dr. John Mack from Harvard. Look, he's on the ground talking to the kids. Like, please just listen. I was just trying to get him to listen to it. And then I got him on board. I said, just give me five minutes. And I showed him some of the testimony from the kids right after it happened. That was taken, interviews taken by Dr. John Mack, who's a Harvard psychiatrist. Very impressive stuff, right? So he was like, ooh, God, maybe let me rethink this. Anyway, I reported on it, okay? And I was terrified at the time because I just interviewed Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and he wanted to see the whole movie before it was gonna be released for obvious reasons. Wow, who he is. I'm like, he's gonna look at that case at the end with the aliens talking to the kids, and he's gonna say, you need to cut me out of that movie. I was like, oh my God, I'm so worried about it. But I reported on it anyway. And not only did he not ask to be removed from the film, he actually publicly endorsed it. Wow, that was amazing. So then I went from there, and now I'm covering an alleged UFO crash. Moment of contact. Now this case that happened in 1996 in Brazil is dealing with a UFO that was in distress that a number of people witnessed it crash. One guy in particular, witnessed it crash. But other people saw the UFO before it crashed. And then two days, or a day or two days later, just a few miles away in the town of Virginia, Brazil, people are reporting these strange creatures in broad daylight. Yeah, it's an amazing case. And there's. These creatures are captured, they're taken in alive.

[Duncan Trussell]

Can you describe the creatures and describe the UFO sighting?

[James Fox]

Yes. So the. So the UFO was January 20, 1996, and the UFO was described as a cigar shaped object, metallic, with no visible means of propulsion. No wings, no. Just totally unusual cylindrical shape. Metallic like a, like a, like a stainless steel. Like a metallic, yeah, like tin foil kind of color. And this guy named Carlos de Souza actually went to the crash site after we took him there after 20 something years. And then people started seeing these strange creatures. The local military police were involved, the doctors from Humanitas Hospital were involved because the creatures were taken to the hospital, they were captured in the streets. I mean, it was just. It's a crazy story.

[Duncan Trussell]

What did the creatures look like?

[James Fox]

They were brown, they had big red eyes. You could look up. Virginia, can you grab that, Josh? Yeah. And they had big red eyes, brown skin, bigger heads, slits for mouths, and spindly weak, feeble bodies. And oily brown skin. Like oily. No hair.

[Duncan Trussell]

Take it easy. They weren't dead. Why are you bullying these four?

[James Fox]

That's my. That's it right there. So that's on the far left. That's Katya. Sorry, click on that one right there. Yeah, so you'll see. Oh, this is my buddy, Michael Shellenberger. Yeah, that. Anyway, that's the guy that saw the UFO crash.

[Duncan Trussell]

That's the creature that is Red eyes. They're drunk, it's hammered, and it's like little horn.

[James Fox]

Yeah, Weird little protuberance. Yeah, yeah, I know. But anyway, my point is, it's like. So I'm now. So I go from reporting only on the craft for the first, what, 20 plus years of my career, and then I was. Oh, screw it. And I reported on alleged close encounters of the third kind, which is a slippery slope, let's be honest. Right?

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

And then now I'm reporting on a UFO crash and live aliens walking through the town of Virginia. Right?

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

And I tell people, it's like, soon as I start talking about it, they look at me, I lose them. And I had my next door neighbor who runs Make a Wish foundation, this guy Jamie, big supporter of mine, he's good friends with the guy Brian Benner, wrote for Political magazine. And he goes, james, I Love you, brother. I respect you, but you lost me on this one. I'm sorry. And I was like, hey, I don't blame you. I understand. So now then, I can do the crash retrieval case. Right. That the Americans are involved with. The Americans came in and swooped up the debris.

[Duncan Trussell]

Bill Clinton's president. He was.

[James Fox]

Bill Clinton was president. Yep. And I've been. So I've been tracking that down, that flight down United States Air Force flight that came in and landed in Campina. So I'm investigating that now. So then I go from that to asking sitting members of Congress, do we have aliens and flying UFOs, flying saucers in our possession.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[James Fox]

Never in 100 million years did I ever think I'd be asking a sitting member of Congress from both parties do we have aliens, and not be laughed out of the room or blocked from D.C. altogether. Instead, it's like one of them was like, yes. The other one's like, you know, due to my security clearances that I can't answer. I can't. I got to stay aware from. Away from that.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

But I encourage your ongoing investigations and keep pushing us for transparency and blah, blah, blah. That's happening right now.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, that's happening.

[James Fox]

And then three months after Moment of contact comes out. Well, sorry. I went on Rogan in April of 2023 talking about moment of contact. And I'm sure that Joe Rogan, just like everybody else, myself included, when he first heard about that, he was like, oh, like there's no way. It's impossible.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

But then you listen to the testimony from people on the ground and including the mayor, like all these people in the town. It's very impressive. And then that was April 2023, that Rogan reported on it. And in July of 2023, the highest level intelligence officer, David Grush, testifies under oath to a joint group of bipartisan lawmakers that we have definitive evidence that we're not alone.

[Duncan Trussell]

What did they call it? Non human biologics or something?

[James Fox]

They call it non human intelligence and biologics.

[Duncan Trussell]

Biologics. Sounds like a skin cream. Why do they talk like this? That's the other thing is, like, even though when they are disclosing so technical, it's so biologics. Biologics. You got alien meat. That's what it is. Now, would you say that I would.

[James Fox]

Have never seen that? I would have never.

[Duncan Trussell]

None of us coming. None of us. None of us would have seen any of this coming.

[James Fox]

And I had people at the time telling me, james, you just came off the phenomenon. One of the first times that a documentary on the topic has such high level cooperation from intel, from congresspeople, senators. You really pushed the envelope with the close encounters of the third kind. And now you want to report on live aliens walking through the town of Virginia. You're going to tarnish your reputation. You're going to jeopardize all your efforts. Do you really want to do this?

[Duncan Trussell]

I don't think people in New Jersey are going to say that. Because this is. What's interesting to me is you see.

[James Fox]

An echo, we're pushing the envelope a little further every time. That's what I meant to say.

[Duncan Trussell]

I love it. But again, I just think it's worth noting. I know we already mentioned it earlier. Why, if you are okay admitting that there's whatever you want to call them, UAPs, whatever, why then is it even considered like out of like you can't say that they have bodies, that they're walking around. That's too much, man. If they're here, they're here. And so. Okay to go back a little bit though.

[James Fox]

So my brain's been exploding for the last couple of years because you asked me earlier, do you ever have that moment? Yes, I've been having that moment.

[Duncan Trussell]

But this actually. Okay, I'm gonna skip what I was gonna ask. This is another question I have for you. So obviously we have precedent throughout US history for whistleblowers being threatened, murdered, suicided, et cetera. And what I've heard, whatever you wanna call it, the deep state or whatever group or small group of people is behind covering this stuff up. They also. I think Grush was threatened. I think Grush had some stuff go down.

[James Fox]

Yeah, yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

So have you experienced anything like that? And are you worried that if you finally break through, if you get close enough, that you could be in danger?

[James Fox]

Yeah. So I mean, I'm public enough at this point where I feel a little more comfortable. Right, right. I've been spooked a couple of times over the years. I could go into those cases if you want, but I would love to.

[Duncan Trussell]

Hear that you don't have to. I mean, I don't want to waste too much of your time. I want to get into Genia more, but I would love to hear about like that.

[James Fox]

So I had a whole crew with me at the time and there was a mass sighting. When I say a mass sighting, like the town of Stephenville In Dublin, Texas, 2008, was the end of 2008 or was early 2009, but might have been both. Sometimes they Span over several weeks or a month. And there was one particular witness, Ricky Sorrels. He was a deer hunter. And he was. So the whole town saw something. The local police department were coming. There were people coming forward. I mean, they had a whole town hall meeting and press conference, and it was in the news, and Larry King Live covered it. I mean, it was kind of a big deal. But there was one particular person that I'd heard about that a lot of people saw it at a distance. There were some military jets chasing this thing. It was apparently huge, just colossal. Like, similar in size to the one that was over Phoenix, Arizona, where it's like a mile across, two miles across. Some of the witnesses described, including the governor. So there was a guy named Ricky Sorrels. Big, tough guy, super sweetheart. And he was deer hunting, and he. He said he was looking down, going through the forest with his rifle, and he had a scope on it. And he goes, james, you know, we have these, like, dry leaves from the oak trees, and if I step on the dry leaves, that could make a sound and scare the deer. So I was looking down as I'm navigating my way through the forest, and it was like, dusk, and I was going hunting, and all of a sudden, he goes, I don't know. I just felt compelled to look up. And so he stopped in the forest. I went to the exact location I filmed with him for a film I did called I know what I saw. And I. And he goes. I looked. He goes, I looked up, and there above me was a craft so big, he goes, I couldn't see the edge in any direction.

[Duncan Trussell]

Wow.

[James Fox]

And so he goes, I'm a metal worker, man. I know metals.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

So I picked up my rifle and I looked through the scope.

[Duncan Trussell]

What?

[James Fox]

Yeah. And he was looking through the scope, and he said he was examining the metal of this thing.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, I thought you were gonna say he shot it.

[James Fox]

Well, so he's looking at it, and he's going, God, there's no welds, there's no rivets. It's seamless. There are these inverted recessed cone type things in the belly of this thing. And he goes, james, you could have landed an airplane on this. He goes, you know, I was just kind of curious. I was gonna, you know, fire my gun at it. He goes, I was just curious if it was gonna ricochet off or, like, it would. It absorbed the bullet. And he had his finger on the trigger. And he's looking through the scope, and he's about to pull it, and he goes, Maybe this isn't such a good idea.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

So he decides, no, I'm not gonna shoot at it. So he puts the gun down.

[Duncan Trussell]

I would have thought the same thing, though.

[James Fox]

He puts the gun down. But he almost did.

[Duncan Trussell]

Thank you, God.

[James Fox]

So anyway, so I'm trying to get this story on camera, but he's like, hell, no, I'm not going on camera. He goes up. He told me the whole story, because I'm not. I'm absolutely not going on camera. The local military base is harassing me. They're coming by at night and they're flying their helicopters over my house and lighting me up. He goes, I'm running outside in my underwear with my shotgun, you know, and they're lighting me up like daylight.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

So he called the local base and he goes, and this is all happening right around the time when I was out there trying to get an interview with him. I was going to his house and he was off the beaten path. And he tells the base, he goes, stop flying over my. Stop flying over my house. And they said, that's our aerospace. That's our aerospace. We'll do what the hell we want in our airspace. I suggest you stop talking about what you saw.

[Duncan Trussell]

Fuck.

[James Fox]

This was serious. This was happening. You look at Ricky Sorrels. He's a big, strong Texan man. Yeah, with Ricky Sorrels.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right, right.

[James Fox]

And he was frightened. And we were out there and I was trying to get him to talk to me, and all of a sudden a delivery truck, like randomly pulls in. We're all like. The whole production team was like, the hell is this guy? You don't just accidentally go on his road and drive down. Some delivery truck came down and we all felt like we were being watched. That was one of the times that we all felt spooked. We stayed in this local hotel. And I remember the sound guy, who's not even into UFOs, he's like, Dude, I'm spooked. He goes, I feel like we're being watched. I was like, I feel really spooked, too. And Ricky Sorrells was totally spooked, Right? And anyway, so that was one time. And then another, there was another time that happened and a little spooked in. When I was in, I did an event at the National Press club in Washington, D.C. with Leslie Kane in 2007.

[Duncan Trussell]

Okay.

[James Fox]

We flew in 14 military and government officials from seven countries and they testified as the reality of the UFO phenomena. Then I ended up making a two hour special called I Know what I Saw. The History Channel. And during that presentation, there were guys in dark suits. We had the ballroom at the National Press Club. It's one of the bigger rooms, and there's a balcony up top. All the activity is going on down below. I barely even knew that there was a balcony up there. Very narrow. There's a balcony up there. And there were military guys that I had brought in, generals and stuff. And they were like, you see those guys up there? Right. I look and there are men in suits, dark suits, all sitting up there looking down. And I was like, oh, that's a little spooky.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

Like, what agencies are those guys from? You know? And so I just felt just like, you know, just a little weird. And then you get, like, cases where people are spooked. I mean, I was spooked when I went. When I was shooting in Virginia.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

Last time I was shooting in Virginia, the military base started calling all the people that we had either just met with or that we were about to meet with. So it was like, who's quicker to get to the witnesses? Right, Right. The base would call the witnesses and they'd say, this is EZA military base in Brazil. This just happened. They'd call the witness and say, hey, so and so. Hey, how you doing? Are you still living at this address?

[Duncan Trussell]

Shit.

[James Fox]

Oh, good, good. How's the family doing? Oh, good, good, good. Yeah. Hey, there's a American filmmaker poking around, asking questions and stuff. They reach out to you by any chance?

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, man. Yeah.

[James Fox]

Okay. All right, good. Well, glad the family's good.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, my God.

[James Fox]

Yeah. That kind of shit.

[Duncan Trussell]

That's so. Okay, so this.

[James Fox]

They were hip to me.

[Duncan Trussell]

I'm sorry for getting a little dark here for just one second.

[James Fox]

Yes.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, take a look at. Oh, my God. Snowden.

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Assange.

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

To me, you know, what they did pushed forward the idea of truth. That we can handle the truth. We deserve the truth. Maybe the methods they used, you could question them. But maybe more in Assange than Snowden, I feel like.

[James Fox]

And what about Gary McKinnon?

[Duncan Trussell]

Which one's McKinnon?

[James Fox]

Gary McKinnon is the biggest computer hack in history. Trying to find out the truth on UFOs. McKinnon, he's in my movie.

[Duncan Trussell]

Okay. Wow.

[James Fox]

Really phenomenal. Wow.

[Duncan Trussell]

You got it. Okay. But to finish my point, they almost.

[James Fox]

Locked him up for life.

[Duncan Trussell]

I know.

[James Fox]

For trying to steal the truth.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, each of these people. What I find interesting about. I don't know as much about McKinnon as these two is that in their ability to get secret Information to read it. They got an idea of who they're up against, what these people are like behind closed doors. And yet it seems like they underestimated the reality of realities, which is these people will not just arrest you, they'll harass you. They'll expose. They'll try to expose. They will use any method possible to.

[James Fox]

I cover this in the program.

[Duncan Trussell]

Okay? So this. I just. Don't you worry, like, you are. Exactly like you are in a position. I know a few other people who research this phenomena, and I worry about them. It's like, man, don't you understand? Like, if these people really don't want you to know something and you find that thing out, they'll do anything to erase that information or you. Or to ruin your life. And don't you worry about that. And how do you protect yourself? I know it's great. You are a famous documentarian, very respected. But how do you ensure that you or your family.

[James Fox]

Yeah, yeah. No, those thoughts do come to mind. Not for the first. Well, I. Maybe the first 15, 20 years, I wasn't really that concerned about it. And then a couple things happened and I was, like, kind of spooked a little bit.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

And then I thought, well, if I get my name out there, it'll be a little better. Now, if I had that definitive proof. Like, I've been going after this video evidence from Virginia, Brazil. I've been going after photographic evidence. That's an ongoing effort. I've been sifting through messages, 500 plus messages, maybe even more, and trying to follow up every possible lead. I've got 11 really solid leads. Now, I thought about, okay, so I go back to Brazil, I get the video. Now I'm a target. Now I definitely have something to worry about. I know that for a fact they're threatening people that just saw something. Now imagine if you saw something and you had tangible evidence. That's gonna be a problem. Right?

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[James Fox]

So I've thought about it, and that worries me a little bit. So I thought maybe the next time I go to Brazil, maybe I should have a little security. Just maybe one person. Just. I don't know.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

Just a little concerned. You know what I mean? But now, again, what definitely is on my radar is that you have that definitive piece of evidence that they've so desperately tried to obfuscate, disappear, destroy, collect. I'll give you a good example. There's a really good photograph featured in the program. If you don't know Providence, you could think, oh, maybe this is AI generated or whatever. But it's from 1990 in Calvine, Scotland. And I'd heard about it through an investigator who was working at the mod in the 90s on the UFO desk. His name is Nick Pope. And I was interviewing him while he was still at the MOD for a number of my documentaries. And I would always ask him, hey, you investigated UFOs, you know, what was the best case?

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

And just boom, he'd go, oh, man. These two guys were hiking out in the, in the wilderness, out in a place called. I don't. You know what? He didn't say Calvin, because I don't think he wanted me to know that. But he said, in Scotland.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

Two guys, broad daylight, had a camera. It was either five or six photographs of the most amazing diamond shaped, disc shaped object, broad daylight, points of reference, with a military jet flying around.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

I was like, oh, my God, what happened to that picture? And he's like, oh, man, they covered that up and da, da, da, da. But I never really had. Quite obviously didn't have the picture. I'd heard about it for over 20 years and I was quietly following the case and going after it, following up with Nick, like, come on, there must be people at the mod. They wouldn't have just thrown this picture away. So anyway, a guy named David Clark really stuck his teeth into this case and he started sifting through FOIA requests or Freedom of Information Act, I guess, the equivalent in England where they release redacted documents. And one of the redacted documents he got just a couple of years ago said, you know, I was talking about the case, and it said so and so from the Royal Air Force press Department, PR department. And then blank, right. His name was redacted. So he just looked up 1990 press and got ahold of this guy Craig Lindsay, who was, was part of the public press OR whatever from 1990, PR for the Royal Air Force, Craig Lindsay. And turns out Craig Lindsay had kept a print. So now we got, we got the. We got. I did an on camera interview with him. I did an on camera interview with the, with the researchers. And then probably about a week, I had a week of production left on the program, this guy surfaces, who was there. He was friends with the people that took the picture.

[Duncan Trussell]

Wow.

[James Fox]

And the relevance of this will come clear in a second. So his name is Richard Greaves. And Richard Greaves gave a print interview, but not ever an on camera or an audio interview. And he promised me through David Clark that I can get an interview with him. And I didn't know I was so desperately wanting to know, like, what happened to the photographers, what happened to the witnesses, that for all intents and purposes, they wanted to publish this story. They went to the local newspaper. They had six prints. It was at least six. Sorry, it was at least five, possibly six. And it was 35 millimeter film, two witnesses, broad daylight disc UFO.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

Absolutely amazing. Then finally, Richard Greaves gives me an interview. Bore you with the details, how long it took. I kept. Week after week. I was like, the film's done. I know. I'm not trying to pester you. I didn't want to push too hard because I pushed people too hard, and they get frustrated and they just pull out and they're gone. And I knew how important this interview was, so I, I. I just leaned on him just enough, you know, Just lean. I would send him a text, hey, if you're still considering, now's the time, you know? So finally, at like, 10:30 at night or late at night, he calls me up, I'm on the East Coast. And he's like, it's Richard Graves. He's like, I've had a couple pints.

[Duncan Trussell]

I'm ready.

[James Fox]

He's got it.

[Duncan Trussell]

Awesome.

[James Fox]

Yeah. So he tells this crazy story about the guys that he worked with in the kitchen and what had happened. And then he starts telling me about this car that shows up at night at the hotel when they were working. They were on a cigarette break. And I was like, so they told you this? He goes, no, I was there. I was like, you were there when a car pulled up at night on a cigarette break? He goes, yeah. And these men. He goes, they were fucking spooks. They were men in black. And they came up in his description of the whole case, phenomenal. I mean, it's. It's. It's one of the most memorable scenes in the whole movie. My point is this. If that's true, if what he's saying is true, and he's willing to take a polygraph test that it is, he swears on his great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandchildren.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's true.

[James Fox]

Yes, I knew them. I worked with them in the kitchen. I made poached eggs. They made those. I swear to God. So anyway, men in black came up, took the witnesses who took the photographs, pulled them aside. They came back in 15. Ten minutes later, they came back inside. He goes, they were white as a fucking ghost. And they ended up drinking heavily, quit their jobs, and they disappeared for 34 years, and they're gone.

[Duncan Trussell]

Wow.

[James Fox]

So the prints are gone, the witnesses are gone. And we put out a statement in the film, you know, if anyone has any information on that, to get in touch with us. So we have a friend that worked with them in the kitchen. We have the photograph. We have the former press officer for the Royal Air Force, Craig Lindsay, who interviewed the witnesses and talks about what they described seeing and taking the pictures of and their intention. And then we have the guy at the MOD who talks about the fact they just wanted to kill the story because it didn't fit the party line that nothing of any defense interest is related or national security to UFOs. When you've got a crystal clear, broad daylight, five prints of a disk of an object that's inexplicable, that's hovering, and then you have a military jet going around it. They wanted to kill that story and they did.

[Duncan Trussell]

Okay, this leads me to the next question. Forgive me in advance, just point blank. Is there anything that you know that you can't talk?

[James Fox]

Yes. Wow.

[Duncan Trussell]

And why?

[James Fox]

Even said why, why?

[Duncan Trussell]

Why can't you?

[James Fox]

Well, so. So I said to the individuals that gave me this information, and they're definitely in a position to know. Couldn't I just say that I heard It's. No, no, you can't say that. I was like, I can't say I just heard it. No, I read it. No. Yep.

[Duncan Trussell]

So how does that feel?

[James Fox]

Well, because. Well, first of all, if I did say it, that would be it. My trust would be over. Right. I would no longer. I can't. I have to respect those contacts and I have to respect their concern for violating whatever.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[James Fox]

And so is my life better for knowing it.

[Duncan Trussell]

This episode of the DTFH has been supported by AG1. Listen, friends, the holidays are upon us. And if you have kids, you know what that's like. You're in a cyclone of chaos. You don't have time for anything, probably much less organizing a million vitamins and making sure you take the right ones. This is why I love AG1. It's like the people at AG1 understood me. I'm not a vitamin man. I'm a powder man. I just have to take AG1's delicious, powerful green powder, throw it in some cold water, and I slurp it down. I slurp it down like someone in a nutritional desert stumbling upon an oasis of green vitamin infused water. And my cells sing. They sing much like the shepherds who saw the angels the night that Jesus was born. Except they didn't see Jesus. They saw the waterfall of sweet green flowing down into my guts. It Makes you feel better right away when you drink it. And I'm telling you, you should give it a shot. You are someone who has that gnawing sense that maybe you're getting scurvy from your rotten diet. AG1 is a good choice for you. So this new year, try AG1 for yourself. It's the perfect time to start a new healthy habit. And that's why I've been partnering with AG1 for so long. And AG1 is offering new subscribers a free $76 gift. When you sign up, you'll get a welcome kit, a bottle of D3K2 and five free travel packs in your first box. So make sure to check out drinkag1.com Duncan to get this offer. That's drinkag1.com Duncan to start your new year on a healthier Note. Thank you, AG1.

[James Fox]

Yes and no. Because I'm really curious and I've been on this mission for a long time.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

So I feel like, gosh, I'd like to have more proof. I kind of want to believe it. Do I believe it? I don't just believe it because these individuals said it happened. I mean, it certainly. Excuse me, I want to believe it. I don't know how to process it.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[James Fox]

I don't know. I don't know, man.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, that's the thing, see, it's hard.

[James Fox]

To say if it's better that I know. I don't know.

[Duncan Trussell]

I'm not going to try to dig it out of your.

[James Fox]

No, I won't reveal it.

[Duncan Trussell]

I do. But I think what you just demonstrated is very similar to what a lot of people in Congress, when you see them get the top secret meetings, they come out having heard something and they can't say it either.

[James Fox]

White is a fucking ghost.

[Duncan Trussell]

White is a ghost. And that to me, so people like me, who are very interested, we can, in a weird way, just with that bit of data and other bits of data just like it that you get, you see two main things. One, there really appears to be a behind the scenes war happening between people who do know this stuff. There seems to be a group of people who are like, fuck, no, we don't talk about it. And another group of people who feel like we have a right to know. People have a right to know. And these two people seem to be in some terrible struggle right now. And that's where the whistleblowers come from. That's where the leaks come from.

[James Fox]

The other thing, though, I could say one thing. Yes, it involves photographic evidence. Well, you know, and the Individuals that I spoke to had personally handled this material.

[Duncan Trussell]

Holy shit.

[James Fox]

Yeah. And it blew my fucking mind.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah. And you can't say if you saw the photographs.

[James Fox]

I did not see. I did not.

[Duncan Trussell]

But I hear this story, you know, and it's, It's. This is another thing that I wonder, and I wonder about myself, too. It's the slow drip disclosure theory. Disclosure with a small D. And from other people who are engaged in the sort of research you're engaged in, similar stories, which is. I don't want to betray them. They're giving me little bits and pieces.

[James Fox]

My career would be over if I talked about it publicly. Done. Nobody would ever talk to me again.

[Duncan Trussell]

But the implication is they recognize your work. They trust you.

[James Fox]

Yes.

[Duncan Trussell]

And they want to use you. Not in a bad way, but they want to use people like you to slow drip this information into default reality. And then I have to ask, why a slow drip? Why the slow drip?

[James Fox]

I don't think that, like, if it all came out at once, I think it'd be too much. Like, if you look at my progression over the years, Right. I. When I first got started investigating the phenomenon, I thought my best friend, Renee Harris, had lost his mind. He was in a high school buddy of mine. We went across Europe together. We. We did all kinds of road trips. And he started talking about, like, out of the blue, he started talking about aliens and Roswell and UFOs. And I was like, this guy's lost his marbles. Like, I remember thinking, I'm going to have to cut him loose.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[James Fox]

I'm going to lose one of my best friends.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right. Right.

[James Fox]

And so that was. That was my psyche. Right. That was my reaction initially. And then I started delving into it and it took me 15, maybe 20 years to. Before I. Yeah, 20 years before I decided to report. Just report on close encounters of the third kind. Then I went beyond that. Next time. Now I'm going to report officially on a UFO crash. Relatively modern.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[James Fox]

And now suddenly I'm finding myself reporting on an alleged. An alleged crash retrieval program and an alleged close encounter of the third kind face to face in the desert with on duty military officials, officers.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

And that encounter is probably one of the most nuts, if true. I wouldn't have reported on it if I didn't think there was. Like the individual said, I'll take a public lie detector test. I had the names of the other on duty officers that were with me at the time. We have a location, we have a date. So I decided to leave it in there. But that encounter is nuts. Like when I first heard about it, I was like, and I remember I was with Christopher Mellon. We're having dinner in D.C. and Chris looks at me and he goes, it's pretty nuts.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, it's pretty nuts.

[James Fox]

I said, I don't know, what do you think? And he goes, the guy checks out his background. He is who he says he is. He was where he says he was. You got that leaked video from three days prior. That's a craft. That's an unknown craft at the base. Yeah, that's leaked. He goes, I don't know. But he checks out. I was like, oh. So I dug a little deeper. I spent about a year digging out as much as I could with my limited access and I opted to report on it because I figured, look, nothing's going to come of it if I don't report on it. And I'm going to receive some criticism in mainstream, but I always have anyway. So. Fair enough.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, yeah, of course you do. You have to. How are we doing on time?

[James Fox]

You're good.

[Duncan Trussell]

You're an hour eight. Okay, great.

[James Fox]

We have 30 seconds. No, I'm kidding.

[Duncan Trussell]

Okay, so let's.

[James Fox]

I love sunsets. Okay.

[Duncan Trussell]

Let's jump into the present.

[James Fox]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Based on all of your research.

[James Fox]

Yes.

[Duncan Trussell]

Give me an assessment of what's happening in New Jersey.

[James Fox]

So a lot of times you can just say you can quickly eliminate conventional by the demons like the, the exhibited technology. Right. So you have objects, a bona fide uap, Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena exhibits a technology that doesn't make any sound or very little sound. Sometimes you'll get reports of a slight humming or a buzzing, but for the most part, no sound, no wings, no visible means of propulsion, has the ability to hover, loiter forever, indefinitely, or accelerate from a standstill to out of sight in the blink of an eye. Right angle, turns at high speed, no sonic boom, no air disturbance, no wake. They also are trans medium. They go in the oceans. They come in and out of the oceans. Okay, that's a bonafide uap. Like even after careful review of all the data, you still can't explain it.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right?

[James Fox]

Right. Now what's happening over New Jersey? Some of the reports. These objects are SUV size drones.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[James Fox]

And they're making noise.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[James Fox]

Which is weird because when I first heard that I was thinking to myself, these things are making noise, but their loitery time. Loiter time is a long time and they go dark a lot of times when helicopters and stuff are trying to follow them.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[James Fox]

And there's no infrared, I'm told there can't be picked up with infrared. There's an interference with other drones that people put in the air to try to get closer to.

[Duncan Trussell]

Can't get their drones up.

[James Fox]

Can't get their drones up. So if it is a conventional propulsion, it's highly advanced. Not the type that a guy like me, because I fly drones. I fly drones for all my movies.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

You know, I got, you know, pro level, pro consumer level.

[Duncan Trussell]

What's the longest one of your.

[James Fox]

25 minutes. 25 minutes?

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, 25 minutes.

[James Fox]

And these objects are big. But then I'm hearing other. Other reports that I just saw yesterday of a fleet or, sorry, a coast guard being followed by objects that appear to have come out of the ocean.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

So that's really weird. And these are officials that are saying this and police that are saying this. So there seems to be something truly inexplicable. Right?

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

There's not an easy explanation. And I think that's one of the reasons why everyone is just like, up in arms over it. Because you. I can't. As someone who's investigated these for as much time as I have, I can't because of all the external information I'm getting, the data that's coming in, I can't just give it a label, like, right, this is highly advanced conventional propulsion because there's other things demonstrated and there's lots of them, and the loiter time is so long. And why can't the government give us a straight answer? Now that's telltale right there.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right?

[James Fox]

The fact that they're hemming and hawing and they're saying, oh, well, don't worry, we have no idea what it is, but you're perfectly safe. It's like, something tells me that you have no idea what these things are.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[James Fox]

And why are they not trying to, in a safe place, shoot one of them down over the water? I don't know. It seems. Especially the ones that are over military bases.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, that's the best video. You know, someone posted a video of a drone. Like, they're saying, look, this idea that the government won't shoot down drones. Let me show you this video of a drone flying into Area 51.

[James Fox]

No way.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's in there for like four minutes, shot out of the sky. So clearly we will shoot down drones. Like, the fact that they're all, like, it's against the law. We can't shoot these things down. So it implies they know. Clearly they know what they are. And probably it's Our tech, or if you want to go out there, it also could imply that this is the next drip. This is the next sort of if.

[James Fox]

If I wasn't so busy right now, I'd be there and investigating. Boots on the ground. That's the way to really find out about this stuff. Right? I really would. I'd like to go. I'd like to go to places. You know, I've been flying drones now, let's see, since, gosh, seven, eight years, and I've had one drop out of the sky, just malfunction, freeze, explode on the desert floor. Excuse me, battery was full. So it wasn't that I was flying in a restricted on the edge of a military base. And I'm convinced that they did something to the technology, just something to it. And it dropped out of the sky. Dropped out like a rock.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[James Fox]

And I knew I wasn't supposed to be flying, but there's a couple shots I wanted to get and I wasn't really risking anyone. I shouldn't have been flying out there. And it said no drone flying, but I flew it anyway and it dropped out of the sky like a rock. So I'm convinced. And everybody else that was with me, they somehow interfered with the technology and dropped it out of the sky.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, that's what people are saying is happening to their drones now. So it would make sense. Of course, we would have some kind of tech that like knocks drones out of the sky. Of course. I mean, this is the.

[James Fox]

I saw it happen to me.

[Duncan Trussell]

This, you know, no matter what, what's happening in New Jersey, wouldn't you say it's one of the more like gigantic events in this particular field, even if it is government tech.

[James Fox]

But why would they do that?

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, you know, the theories are that the fear monger theory is they're scanning for radiation, they think there's a dirty bomb out there, they're scanning for a nuke. Again, this is just stuff popping.

[James Fox]

Fear mongering.

[Duncan Trussell]

Fear mongering, the other theory, and I'll send you this great TikTok of someone breaking it down. Some time ago, they made an agreement that it would be okay for contractors to test experimental drones in the new generation over residential.

[James Fox]

Oh, come on, that doesn't make any sense.

[Duncan Trussell]

It doesn't make any sense because it seems. And it's airspace and, you know, shutting airports down, it doesn't make any sense either. And also some of the videos, and again, who knows some of the videos. It's not just these drone things. It's orbs. It's the classic weird flickering orb. One of the videos seems to show the orb turning into one of these drones. Again. Who the fuck knows what footage I'm looking at? I don't know. But that brings me to another question I had for you, which is the orb phenomena.

[James Fox]

Oh yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

What do you think that is? Because we have the Tic Tacs, we have the Virginia. I don't know, like cigar. Cigar. Which by the way, is this, you know, that we talked about in an earlier podcast. Uma Muma, whatever it's called.

[James Fox]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that name. Wamu. Wamu.

[Duncan Trussell]

Or cigar shaped. Cigar shaped.

[James Fox]

Yeah, yeah. It was so funny too. Cause the illustration they did for it made it look more like a rocky thing.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

But then I was like, well, hang on a second. It's artificial and it was solar. A solar wind solar thing.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

Wouldn't it have been more. I don't know.

[Duncan Trussell]

Who knows? But.

[James Fox]

But it accelerated, right? It shouldn't have.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, it's the.

[James Fox]

I should have asked more questions to the Harvard psychiatrist. I'm sorry, the Harvard avi. Loeb. Loeb. I just hung out with him.

[Duncan Trussell]

He's so cool.

[James Fox]

Yeah, I know. I was like, why didn't I. Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

We were so busy and he put his neck out there talking about that because he's like, this is exactly what it'd look like if a ship visited us. It does all the things. But the orb phenomena is interesting to me because it has a sort of spiritual component to it. There are people who claim that these things appear around them. I've met people. Who is it that teaches how to call those things? You know what I'm talking about. There's a God. He's a. Oh God, I can't believe. I can't remember his name. It doesn't matter.

[James Fox]

But he sees the orbs.

[Duncan Trussell]

No, it's some method where you can like call these things. And again, they can be very small too.

[James Fox]

And they could be large too.

[C]

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[Duncan Trussell]

So you, have you seen one?

[James Fox]

Yes, I did.

[Duncan Trussell]

What, what are they?

[James Fox]

What do you think? I, you know, that's. I don't talk about this very often. Very, very, very seldom. But when I was 20, I was. It was probably maybe 10:00 at night, 9:30, 10:00 at night. And I was in Northern California in my bed with my girlfriend at the time, Lisa Reinhart. And neither one of us were into UFOs. I mean, not at all. Like, we never talked about UFOs. I mean, I'd heard some stories in the past from like family, friends and stuff, but it was like 9:30, 10:00 and I had a, like a queen size bed. And then to the right of us lying on. We were lying this way. It was a good size window, maybe four by five, maybe a little bigger. It was big, big window to our right. And we're both looking out the window and we see this like, like egg shaped thing that was like a yellowy white. And it was just like kind of pulsating a little bit.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

Right out our window. What the. And she looks at me and she goes, what the is that? And I said, I don't know, whatever that thing is, but whatever it is, I get the feeling it knows we're looking at it. She goes, so do I close the blinds. I'm scared. So I leapt up out of bed and I remember trying to close the blinds frantically and I ripped them off the wall and they hit the floor. And then I was picking him back up and I was in my underwear and I'm trying to put the damn blinds up, like. And we like clutching each other for a couple of minutes.

[Duncan Trussell]

Terrifying.

[James Fox]

Yeah, it was kind of scary.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

And she, after a couple minutes, she goes, I wonder if it's still there. And so I peeked through the. It was gone. Then my sister Janine came home maybe like an hour later or something, and she's like, hey, what's going on? She came back from a concert and she was telling us about her concert. And we were like, we just saw a ufo. And she goes, really? Like, like what? And we told her and then we went to bed. She went to bed, woke up the next morning, never spoke of it ever again. Yeah, didn't talk to anybody about it at all. And I was, I was probably maybe 39 and I was doing. I know what I saw. And I was visiting one of my really good friends down in San Diego, this guy, John Gimmel. And he had this morning routine. He was like, super fit. And I work out a little bit, but he just takes it to the next level. Like, he was like, we're gonna go jogging down the beach. We're gonna swim out to this buoy, like, a quarter mile offshore. You know there's sharks in the water.

[Duncan Trussell]

Fuck that.

[James Fox]

Yeah, I know. And I was, like, swimming out this buoy, feeling awfully vulnerable. We go out, and then we swim back in again, and he wants to run to the left. And I was like, you know, john, let's go to the right. He goes, the car's to the left, and there's nothing to the right. And I was like, I want to go to the right. We got kind of an argument. I said, john, I'm going right.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

He goes, there's nothing to the right. There's no food to the right. There's no car to the right. It's the big, barren, empty beach. And I was like, well, I'm going. So he goes with me, reluctantly. We walking down the beach, and there's three people sitting on this barren beach. Lisa Rinehart, her husband, and her daughter, who was probably, like, six at the time.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

I looked at her, and I was like, lisa. And she was like, james, weird. I was like, oh, my God. This is my husband and this is my daughter. Blah, blah, blah. And I was like, oh, my God, it's so good. I can't believe I gave her a big hug and I looked at her, and I go, you remember that UFO sighting we had?

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

She goes, you're damn right I remember that. I said, what do you remember? And then she told me exactly like I did. That was it. But had it. Had I not been with someone, I probably would have just written it off like it didn't really happen because I have no explanation for it. Well, that.

[Duncan Trussell]

That's interesting. I'm sorry to cut you off, but see, that's interesting. This is the way we react to things that far out of default reality. You feel like it was a dream.

[James Fox]

Who's gonna believe you? What does it matter?

[Duncan Trussell]

Because.

[James Fox]

What does it matter? Because I'm gonna go around and sound like a crazy guy.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right?

[James Fox]

You know, then it's gonna be okay. Well, I had this experience. Now people that maybe will look at my work and think, well, clearly he had this experience, and that influences what he believes. That's not the case at all. Could it have somehow been an impetus that triggered me later in life? I don't know. I don't know.

[Duncan Trussell]

Listen, I'll share one with you real quick.

[James Fox]

Okay.

[Duncan Trussell]

And I don't talk.

[James Fox]

But I have a witness. I have a witness, and she's still around today.

[Duncan Trussell]

I have no witness. And I don't talk about this that much. And it seems like I would. I don't even know if I've talked about it on the podcast, but when I was a kid.

[James Fox]

You're crazy. No, I'm kidding.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yes. That's hilarious. Thank you for that.

[James Fox]

I knew it. This guy's lost his mind. I can't believe you worked with this guy.

[Duncan Trussell]

I make him. It's such a. Based on everything you've said, it's such a boring story, but I do think I feel like telling it really quickly just because it.

[James Fox]

I totally want to hear it.

[Duncan Trussell]

I just realized, like, yeah, it's something I really hesitate to talk about. It's not a big deal, but. When I was a kid, woke up in my window of my bedroom was a fucking orb. Just like this weird plasmatic hovering thing. Same sense of, like, it's aware of me somehow. And then I went to bed, woke up, and to this day, I think, was it a dream? But then when I see the footage of these things, it's like, that's what it fucking looked like. And so I am very curious, and I know we are. Where are we at? Do I have time for one more question? Yeah. Okay. This is.

[James Fox]

Did the orb look anything like your T shirt?

[Duncan Trussell]

It was not that cool.

[James Fox]

Oh, that's pretty cool.

[Duncan Trussell]

Thank you.

[James Fox]

I could get lost in there.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, man, this is.

[James Fox]

I am lost right now. You guys, look them all.

[Duncan Trussell]

Look at the flower of life.

[James Fox]

We've lost them.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's in there, man.

[James Fox]

Right there. That is so cool.

[Duncan Trussell]

Thanks. Yes. Can't believe people can do this with tie dye.

[James Fox]

It's unbelievable.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's insane.

[James Fox]

Beautiful.

[Duncan Trussell]

So what do you. With all of these sightings that are happening, with everything that's happening, and honestly, you know, with the New Jersey stuff in particular, I think for the first time, I started feeling creeped out. Like, I started getting not a good feeling. I started really playing around with the idea, like, that maybe we're being visited by something more advanced than us. And it wasn't a good feeling. You know, it wasn't a hippie feeling of they're coming to save us, save us or anything. It was just, like, from ourselves and, like, if you look at the history of, like, what happens when we show up on shores, it doesn't end well.

[James Fox]

For the people we Godspeed humans.

[Duncan Trussell]

So do you have some sense? Even if it's instinctive, Intuitive. Do you have some sense of what we might expect over the next few years?

[James Fox]

So the reason why I'm not as spooked because I've already kind of come to terms with the fact there's a non human intelligence present on this planet. And from all the cases I've investigated all around the world for decades, I've come to the conclusion that generally speaking, these objects are not hostile, this intelligence is not hostile. Now some people would argue with me and say, hey, we have the abduction phenomenon and there's definitely something to that.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, sure.

[James Fox]

Okay. Well, I haven't delved into that. I've never really covered it. Yes, I've met people like that.

[Duncan Trussell]

Striver.

[James Fox]

Yeah. Oh yeah, I know, I know.

[Duncan Trussell]

You're friends with him, right?

[James Fox]

Yes, yes. And I'm also. And hey, I believe that aspect of the phenomenon and people constantly going, how come you haven't like, you know, done any documentaries? I'm like, that's a really slippery slope. And I'm already pushing the envelope so hard right now that I'm just not there yet.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[James Fox]

However, I did talk to not Whitney Strieber, it was another. Not John Mack, his name will come to me. Bud Hopkins. And Bud Hopkins was amazing guy. He was friends with Leslie Kane and I was hanging out at his apartment like in 2008, 2007, something like that. And he's like, james, I got this stuff I want to show you. It's incredible. Like this and, and little did I realize that was the last time I was ever going to meet him. He died of cancer. But he goes, he goes, look at these, these illustrations I have, I'm having my patients, they're all from all around the world and none of them know each other. And I've been having them like draw what they see when they wake up on the ship. So called ship.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

Son of a bitch. If that drawing wasn't the same, like symbols and stuff they're seeing, they're reporting on the crowd. How the hell do you do that? If that's not compelling evidence, I don't know what is.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[James Fox]

You've got 50 different people all drawing variations of the same thing, but it's the same damn thing and you're looking at it. He goes, none of these people know each other. These are in different countries, these are different. And they're drawing the same thing they're seeing on the ship. That to me is, whoa, that's the most compelling I've ever seen for allegations people claim to being abducted or not, you know, so so, yeah. So people could say to me, oh, James, you know, you're, you're being naive and you're saying it's a fairly benign presence for the most part. But I still do believe that. I do believe that their intention was to destroy us. I mean, they disabled their nuclear weapons.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[James Fox]

They've done it countless times.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[James Fox]

And I talked to a nuclear launch control officer, Robert Salas.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

Love you, buddy. The guy's amazing. And he's like, you know, James is funny actually, because I, when I, when I met him, I realized why he was a launch control officer. Because he's so calm.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[James Fox]

And he's so measured and nothing like, you know, ruffles his feathers. He's just like, like a little Buddha. Because that's the kind of guy you'd want if you want to flip the switch for nuclear war. Right?

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah. Right.

[James Fox]

Calm measure.

[Duncan Trussell]

Mellow, mellow, mellow, Relax.

[James Fox]

Yeah. And he goes, well, James, because about talking about UFOs flipping, turning all these weapons off, turning these nuclear tip warheads from missiles off, whatever. And he goes, the way I saw it, the message was rather clear. It's like taking matches out of the hands of a baby. Really?

[Duncan Trussell]

Wow, wow, wow. Whose baby?

[James Fox]

Little babies playing with nuclear weapons. You know, it's like, maybe you shouldn't be doing that.

[Duncan Trussell]

Get your hands off the nuclear weapons.

[James Fox]

Yes. Yes.

[Duncan Trussell]

Thank you so much for this conversation. It was a joy talking to you and I am so excited to watch your newest documentary.

[James Fox]

Thank you so much.

[Duncan Trussell]

Out today.

[James Fox]

Yes. Yes. Let me just quickly say there have been some issues. It's the most independent release in the history of my 30 year career. Right. Because I've had nightmare issues with distribution companies. I won't bore your audience with the details of it. This is the most independent release ever. It's $20 right now on Apple, Amazon, Vimeo, itunes. That's expensive. If you can afford to get it, buy it. If you can't wait two weeks, it'll be available to rent, but it's 100% independent release. And yeah, if you like what I do and you can afford to support it, go for it.

[Duncan Trussell]

Where's the best way, what's best for you, for them to find it?

[James Fox]

Amazon, iTunes, Vimeo, Fandango, and I listed a bunch of things on my X account so you can find me@james, cfox, amescfox and I've been posting updates and all the various links. We had a couple of issues earlier today. I think it's been ironed out. So Great, great to have me on. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

[Duncan Trussell]

Great meeting you. Thank you for your work. Everybody watch his show. All the links will be in the comments section in the description for this podcast. You're the best. Thank you.

[James Fox]

Thanks.

[Duncan Trussell]

That was James Fox, everybody. Make sure you watch the program. Buy it in advance. He's spent his own money on this thing. I'm sure. It's not easy getting people to fund this kind of documentary and we need people like him on the front line lines. Big thank you to our wonderful sponsors and thank you for watching. Merry Christmas.

[C]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway this holiday season. Unwrap sweet savings on all your favorite holiday Candy now through December 31st. Shop in store and online and save on holiday candy like Ferrero Rocher, Russell Stover Gift Box, Brax Soft Jellies, Reese's Peanut Butter Cups, Hershey Candy Cane kisses, M&MS, and Hershey Milk Chocolate Kisses. Get these holiday favorites before they're gone. Offer ends December 31st. Restrictions apply. Promotions may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.