749: I Didn't Go Free Climbing with Alex Honnold

Summary

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Duncan Trussell Family Hour: Episode 749

"I Didn't Go Free Climbing with Alex Honnold"

Date: May 1, 2026
Guest: Alex Honnold, world-renowned free solo climber

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Episode Overview

In this lively and thoughtful conversation, comedian Duncan Trussell welcomes Alex Honnold, the legendary free solo climber most famous for his Yosemite exploits and, most recently, climbing the skyscraper Taipei 101 on live Netflix. The two cover everything from quantum immortality and UFO skepticism to the psychology of risk, childhood freedom versus modern parenting, the philosophy of failure, the logistics of urban climbing, and Honnold’s philanthropic work bringing solar power to underserved communities with the Honnold Foundation. Throughout, the tone oscillates between deep, existential musings and irreverent, rapid-fire humor, with Trussell’s curiosity and charm meeting Honnold’s dry wit and calm rationality.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Climbing, Mortality, and the Multiverse (03:26–08:42)

• Duncan opens by reflecting on Honnold as a symbol of fearlessness and connection to nature, admitting that seeing Alex climb makes him question his own comfort zones.
• Quantum immortality: Duncan introduces the multiverse theory where every fatal event in one universe is survived in another, teasing Honnold—“All the time. You’re not even that good a climber. Every move, in some universe, you fall on the first move, then you fall on the second move…” (04:23).
  • Alex’s skeptical response: “That seems like a really reassuring fiction, you know…something people came up with."
• The topic shifts to deja vu, with Honnold attributing it to bad memory, not metaphysics.

Notable Quote

"That seems like a really reassuring fiction."
—Alex Honnold (04:37)

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2. Aliens, UFOs, and Skepticism (05:29–21:31)

• Growing up in Nevada, Alex shares his perspective on UFO sightings: most ‘weird’ phenomena are due to physical exhaustion or environmental illusions — "If you push yourself long enough physically, you always start to see things or hear things or have weird experiences." (05:39)
• He’s open to the idea of extraterrestrial life but doubts that spacemen have flown all the way here: “Would they really be flying something that looks suspiciously like a US Air Force aircraft?” (06:52)
• The two dissect Occam's Razor, arguing whether the simplest solution is always mundane — Duncan points out the tendency for reported UFOs to match the era’s technology (e.g., "In 1869 people saw blimps. That was cutting edge then.").
• Military tech vs. aliens: Discuss the recent UAP videos; Alex remains firmly skeptical.
• Place a playful bet: Duncan insists that, within two years, the US government will provide evidence of recovered alien craft; Alex bets against it.

Memorable Moment

"I'm going to bet you $100 right now...Within the next two years, the federal government is going to show proof that we have been collecting crashed alien ships."
—Duncan (18:55)

"Yeah, you may as well just give me a hundred bucks right now."
—Alex (19:50)

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3. The Mind of a Free Soloist – Managing Fear & Risk (21:57–36:19)

• The psychology of soloing: Duncan probes into how Alex manages fear and stays focused, especially when things get dicey. Alex’s approach is methodical—“No particular thing. It’s just practice. You go soloing a lot and you get better at soloing.” (22:28)
• Childhood freedom: Alex reminisces about unsupervised bike rides and early climbing, contrasting it with today’s more safety-conscious parenting.
• Parental instinct: “A big part of parenting is spotting my kids...making sure they don't get really hurt, but then ideally them not really knowing that you’re spotting.” (25:09)
• Fascination with high-stakes decision-making in documentaries like Meru—how climbers will retreat rather than push past safety margins, even on the verge of success.

Notable Quote

“You just don't want to feel like a failure, but at the same time you want to survive.”
—Alex Honnold (32:01)

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4. Climbing Culture, Failure, and Inspiration (36:19–41:42)

• Duncan describes how witnessing climbers’ decision-making, especially the power of bailing on big climbs, is life-affirming not only for physical safety but as a model for everyday choices.
• Discusses how climbing films (Free Solo) inspire people not to climb cliffs, but to push personal boundaries in other life areas.
  • “People watch the film, and then after, they're like, I signed up for a half marathon or I'm gonna replant my garden…” (35:49)
• Duncan performs his own AI-generated animated song, “Free Climbing,” inspired by Alex.

Memorable Moment

“If you call that art.”
—Alex Honnold, after Duncan's song (39:13)

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5. The Physical Side of Climbing: Strength, Risk, and the Senses (42:45–46:44)

• Alex gives Duncan a (playful, exaggerated) handshake to demonstrate climber grip—“You broke my hand!” (43:32)
• Discusses grip strength versus muscularity: “Honestly not that high. It’s lower than a bodybuilder…you don’t crush the rock into powder, you just hang from it.” (43:48)
• Talks about his hands developing “like a stonemason’s” — with thick connective tissue from crack climbing.

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6. Hollywood vs. Reality, and the Heroic Film Crews (48:52–51:44)

• Duncan asks if Alex finds movie climbing scenes irritating—Alex is forgiving of superhero logic but catches ‘off’ details in supposed realism.
• The logistics of filming climbing—shots are mostly produced by adept rope-access camera people, not drones, who rappel in and film climbers up close.
  • “Camera people are the unacknowledged heroes of the climbing world.” (50:03)

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7. Urban Climbing: Taipei 101 and Practicalities (52:08–65:56)

• Alex discusses his Netflix climb of Taipei 101—distinct from rock due to its material structure and safety variables.
  • “With buildings, metal just doesn’t snap like rock, it bends or crumples before it breaks.” (53:32)
• Dives into the preparation process, practicing once with a rope to check holds, and notes the unpredictability of TV projects.
• Life-or-death logistics: Pees before climbing—on buildings, unlike cliffs, you can’t just “go anytime.”

Notable Quote

"Normally on a cliff, you just go to the bathroom. On the building…obviously you don't want to be disrespectful. So I just made sure that I peed right ahead of time."
—Alex Honnold (64:56)

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8. Environmentalism, Philanthropy & the Honnold Foundation (66:30–77:53)

• Alex describes the mission of the Honnold Foundation: issuing grants for off-grid solar around the world.
  • “I think this year we'll pass $20 million in grants that we've given to solar around the world, which is pretty crazy.” (66:58)
• The rationale: Both caring for nature and helping communities—“There's no real point in protecting nature if you're not helping human communities.”
• Explains how decentralized solar (microgrids, neighborhood sharing) can revolutionize energy and reduce dependency on fossil fuels.
• Duncan and Alex dream about what cities could be with clean energy, and dismantle the notion that solar technology is only a 'woke' thing.

Notable Quote

“Let's talk about energy independence…I think solar should be like a prepper thing.”
—Alex Honnold (72:32)

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9. On Legacy, The Future of Climbing, and What’s Next (77:53–end)

• Alex reveals he still climbs at home and is always working on personal projects, even if they’re not being filmed or publicized.
• The pair riff on what an “Alex Honnold takes comedians free climbing” show would look like, with Duncan hamming it up about near-certain death.
• Closing encouragement: “Everyone should try rock climbing. It's the best.” (79:50)

Notable Quote

"Not free soloing, but, you know, go to a gym, check it out. It's so fun."
—Alex Honnold (79:57)

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Timestamped Memorable Moments

• Quantum immortality and death: 03:35–04:55
• UFO skepticism and Occam’s Razor: 06:52–09:53
• $100 alien disclosure bet: 18:55, 19:50
• Climber logic and bailing on climbs: 27:11–31:58
• AI-generated climbing song (Duncan’s performance): 36:52–39:13
• Grip strength handshake (“You broke my hand!”): 43:26–43:39
• Building climbing logistics (Taipei 101): 52:08–55:25
• Ants, bats, and surprises while climbing: 58:12–61:39
• Honnold Foundation’s work and philosophy: 66:30–77:53
• Environment and the path forward for energy: 68:24–75:32

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Further Information

• Honnold Foundation – Alex’s solar energy charity
• Taipei 101 Netflix special – Recent showcase of Honnold’s urban climbing

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Episode Tone & Takeaways

This episode combines cosmic pondering, down-to-earth realism, and unpretentious wit. Duncan Trussell's wide-eyed, philosophical style meets Alex Honnold's measured practicality, yielding a conversation that's inspiring, hilarious, and sneakily profound. Whether you’re curious about the secrets of free solo climbing, want to think more deeply about mortality, or just need a gentle nudge to break through your next hesitation, this one’s for you.

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"You just don't want to feel like a failure, but at the same time you want to survive." —Alex Honnold (32:01)

Transcript

[A]

Hello and welcome to the dtfh. Have you ever wondered what Alex Honnold, the world famous solo free climber, thinks about aliens? You're gonna find out in this episode. Also, he almost crushed my hand. You'll see that too. He's a powerful, beautiful, incredible human being. We're essentially brothers now. And I will be climbing free climbing right after this. I'm going free climbing by myself up a big old mountain and I'm not afraid anymore. But first, before we dive into this episode, I want to invite you to come see me do stand up comedy. It's Helium in Philadelphia. That's May 1st through the 3rd. That's this Friday, this Saturday, this Sunday. After that, you can find me in Cleveland at hilarities. That's May 8th through the 9th. And then I'm coming home to La Jolla, California, the Comedy Store. I hope you guys will come see one of my live shows. Get those tickets in advance, won't you? Because it makes me feel good. All right, everybody get ready. You know Alex Honnold. He is a globally famous solo free climber. He just climbed Taipei live on Netflix. This huge fucking building. My whole family watched your hands sweat watching this man. But. But he's amazing. An inspiration. But did you know he's funny as fuck? What a pleasant surprise. He's super cool. I can't believe I got to hang out with him. God bless you all of you who made this podcast happen. Everybody get ready for a wild conversation with Alex Honnold. Alex, welcome to the dtfh. Holy shit. I can't believe I get to do a podcast with you.

[B]

Wait and see.

[A]

You know what? I've gathered the last like 10 minutes hanging out with you. You are funny. You're like a really funny person, man.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Yeah, you made me laugh a bunch.

[B]

Do my best.

[A]

And you made me cry. You've made America cry and the world cry. We watch you. We watch you. People love you. And then you. There you are on the side of these rock faces with no nothing. Number one. It's a critique of all humanity. All of us feel like, what are we doing with our lives? What's wrong with me? Imprisoned by fear?

[B]

Why am I not hanging on a cliff right now?

[A]

I don't know how many times when I've seen it with my kids sitting around me looking at me like, why don't you do that, dad? Why don't you free climb massive cliffs? I'm like, why don't I do that? But man, the role you play. I Don't know if you understand what you represent to a lot of us, which is this fearless, liberated connection with nature. And it's beautiful. Yeah.

[B]

No, I guess I don't know that I'm just living. I just do the best I can, and people take what they want from it.

[A]

Do you know what quantum immortality is?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay, this is what I wanted to chat with you about. So quantum immortality is this crazy theory, and for it to work, there has to be a multiverse, so there has to be infinite versions of you. And so this is the idea that you can't die. That, in fact, when you die, really what happens is you instantly blip over into a parallel universe where you are exactly you doing the exact same thing. And so as I'm watching you, I just wonder, like, oh, wow, I'm in the timeline where he doesn't fall, but is that.

[B]

Are there an infinite number of timelines where he does fall?

[A]

All the time? All the time. You're not even that good a climber. You're just.

[B]

Every move. Yeah, every move. Each universe, you fall on the first move, then you fall on the second move, the third.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's like Groundhog's Day. You slowly learn the sequence by falling one move higher each time.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. You ever wonder about stuff like that?

[B]

No. That seems like a really reassuring fiction, you know, something that people came up with. Like, when I die, I just reappear and keep going.

[A]

Well, I. I agree with you. It does seem like either a reassuring fiction or the most terrifying version of hell ever. An inescapable infinite timeline where you just keep popping over and over and over and over and over.

[B]

No, it seems great because you don't know that you've popped from a previous one. So if you don't know them, maybe

[A]

that's what deja vu is. You know, whenever you get a deja vu, you just kick the bucket and. You popped it. You popped over.

[B]

I think deja vu is just because I have a bad memory. And I'm like, I have done this before.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

I think I get deja vu and I'm sort of like, oh, no, I did come here six years ago on that event, but I couldn't remember how many, like.

[A]

How many, like, things that are just related to, like, bad memory, neurological decline do we attribute to mystical stuff?

[B]

Totally. Well, I have. I mean, so, yeah, I live in Vegas. Like, Nevada has, like, a huge UFO culture and sort of like a paranormal. You know, people go to the desert and whatever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And as someone who's had a lot of big experiences outside. I'm sort of like. I think most that stuff is easily attributed to just having big experiences outdoors where you're like. And then I was really dehydrated and I was really tired and hadn't slept or you know, I was like on a big hike or you know, basically if you push yourself long enough physically, you always start to like see things or hear things or have weird experiences.

[A]

What percentage of your life, I mean, not that you know the exact number, but what percentage of your life is spent outside?

[B]

Well, less now that I have kids.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

I mean, I used to, you know, I lived in a van for 10 or 12 years or something. Where you're basically just recreating outdoors every single day.

[A]

Yeah. And so you would think that spending all that time outdoors, you definitely would have seen a UFO by now if they're out there. Right. You would think of all the people that see an orb, it's gonna be Alex Honnold.

[B]

Yeah, you know, maybe. Yeah. No, I just think like, so in Nevada, you know, everyone's like, oh, I saw a ufo. And you're like, dude, there's so many military bases around and people are like hiking in the desert and this weird stuff and you're kind of like, doesn't seem that crazy to see something unusual flying.

[A]

So you're a skeptic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're like a sort of realist skeptic.

[B]

Yeah, realist. I mean the thing is like, I definitely believe there's probably life in the universe. Like surely there's life in other places. But the idea that life flew here in something that looks suspiciously like a US Air Force aircraft and came just in the last 60 years since we've developed airplanes. You're kind of like, nah, you know, it seems unlikely.

[A]

Debunker. We got a debunker here, gang. Oh, I love it. I love it. Well look, you know, this is, this is like where this has been, where my mind goes. And you know, I was throwing around Occam's Razor, you know, Occam's razor. You live by Occam's Razor, don't you? That you live or die by it. Right. You have to choose the simplest.

[B]

Yeah. Simplest solution.

[A]

Simplest solution. Yeah. And so I was talking to someone who's like in the UFO disclosure community and I presented exactly the argument that you presented. Come on. This is.

[B]

You're like, surely it's a little suspicious that all the UFO sightings are since the advent of modern aircraft. You know what I mean, there are not a lot of historical record from the 1700s of people, you know, whatever.

[A]

Well, well, there are. I mean, that's. Of course that's what they're going to point you towards is like all the various paintings, drawings, biblical depictions of what appears to be, you know, someone who hadn't encountered technology encount something. Right. But I was trying to use the Occam's razor thing. It's like let's, let's look at the simplest solution here. Are we really going to imagine that in an infinite universe and we're in the middle of this like, void? Apparently, compared to like other like galaxies where this. We're out. We're out in the boondocks out here. You really think that we've been identified and beings are flying here and they're even interested in us at all? We're essentially like a monkey ant pile. You think they're flying around looking at

[B]

like these when more so do we think they're flying around? You know, it's like if you came here from another galaxy, would you be flying something that's like a little fighter plane? You know what I mean? It's like kind of a weird.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

Vast distances to be whatever.

[A]

Yeah. Let's continue to punch holes in like the idea that these are beings. It's like number one, like you're saying, why is it that the way they look seems to be based suspiciously like humans? Yes. Especially to the point of like, can you pull up like UFO that looks like. I guess. Josh, look up, look up. Like drawing of, you know, old drawing of UFO that looks like a zeppelin, you know, like if you look at the way like throughout time, these UFOs they do seem to match the technology of the. You know, people would draw these. I don't know if you're going to find it. This is going to. This is the dumbest search. This is the dumbest search you could ever do. Forget it. You're not going to find it. There's. But I've seen. Oh, There you go. 1869 UFO. What do you know? Looks like a blimp. Right? Because that's what was the cutting edge back then. Blimps used to blow your fucking mind. We look at the Goodyear blimp and we're like, whatever. But in those days that was crazy.

[B]

Blimp from another galaxy. That's cool.

[A]

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[B]

came from another galaxy for sure.

[A]

You could tell by the fans.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It survived reentry, like, no problem

[A]

because

[B]

it enters the atmosphere so slowly that it doesn't burn up. That's all part of the plan.

[A]

Let's read it. In the late 19th century, long before the Wright brothers first powered flight in 1903, the United States experienced a wave of mysterious aerial sightings known as the Great airship mystery of 1869-1897. Blood. An egg shaped or cigar like the object was said to move against the wind, emit a powerful searchlight, and even carry human like augments whose voices, laughter and songs they were singing. These accounts spark widespread speculation, hoaxes, misidentified celestial events. So anyway, I think that this argument is what I presented to this UFO disclosure person. He's like, you know, actually saying that these things are created by humans or the military or that they're. This is not Occam's razor, because that's a complex solution in the sense that.

[B]

Well, so the simple solution is that people just see some weird shit in the sky. Yeah, we're like, oh, it's weird clouds, weird weather.

[A]

You like heard something and then.

[B]

Or they're tripping.

[A]

You can write off all human observation as that. If you wanted to, you could just say, you know, of course you're gonna see something in the sky and most of the time you don't know what that is. Like, there's an infinite number of things you could see in the sky, including like bizarre aerial phenomena that we already know about, like ball lightning or like

[B]

aurora borealis type stuff that are coming way further south. So you're like, you're in San Francisco, but you see like weird lights for the first time. First and only time in your life.

[A]

Right?

[B]

That's weird.

[A]

Exactly. And. But then where it gets interesting is the pull up. Like, I don't know that. Can you find the one that Corbel showed us the. The UFO Corbell showed us the one that like the Hellfire missile locked on. This is where it gets interesting is that what we're getting to right now is maybe find the YouTube video. What we're getting to right now is we have this incredible tracking technology that is. And people are leaking this who are in the military because they think people should know about this stuff. And we're starting to see these bizarre. Yeah, scroll down that thing. We're starting to see these bizarre things. I want to queue up a video

[B]

that I've been given and as before

[A]

it starts, I'm going to describe. This was taken October. So what we got here is this drone, I guess is picked up on one of these UAP things, locked onto it. And you'll see what happens in a second here is pretty wild. Boom. Watch nothing. Three little things come off of it and it just keeps moving. So this stuff has been. Is what's created this. Like.

[B]

But that's like, what do we just see? And what is this at all? You know what I mean? Like, this is the problem of pulling up weird conspiracy on YouTube.

[A]

It's not conspiracy. You know, I get it, man. I. Listen, I totally get it. I totally get it. I totally get it.

[B]

Either one of us ever seen, like, is that, you know, you're like, what is that?

[A]

Well, I mean this, the reaction that you're having is what the term that people use for it is not that you're having actual shock, but they're calling it ontological shock, which is like, basically we're. We've been since, you know, we were kids. UFOs are batshit. UFOs are what crazy people talk about. UFOs are sci fi. UFOs are not real. That can't be real. It's not real. And so we're really not good at opening up a paradigm where also the argument being, like, it could be anything also we do live in an infinite universe and we're interested. We've just become technological. If you look at the age of the earth and we're already. The tech we have is incredible. We've got the James Webb telescope floating out there the size of though something

[B]

tells me it'd be very unincredible to anybody coming from other galaxies. Well, you know what I mean?

[A]

That's applying like human logic. The problem is we're trying to wrap our heads around something that might not even be from space. A lot of like the theories on this stuff or things, the way we conceptualize movement, travel, energy, all these things lock us into a framework that makes it so stuff like this just doesn't make sense. And so now we've got this like incredible thing happening, which is for sure there's something now what it is, I veer towards what you're veering towards. More likely, this is the exact. This is probably the lead up to when we got Split Atom. You know, they figured out some new physics. They figured out some new drone technology. They're testing it right now. Of course we're gonna see it. And that's what we're seeing is some new physics. Potentially that's something that occurs to me. But a lot of people are putting their ass on the line, man. There's like people working at Lockheed and people working at all these like private contractors who are saying over and over and over and over and over again that no, it's this shit is not our tech. That it's something's like watching us and they crash and they want to reverse engineer it because then they could turn it into weapons of war.

[B]

That'd be sick.

[A]

Wouldn't it be sick? I know, but then you look at like when you. Who knows? But they're also saying, no, they can't reverse engineer it. So it's a mystery, Alex. It's a mystery.

[B]

Well, hopefully by the. Actually, I suspect that by the time we die, it'll be in the same place where we're like, it's a mystery. Who knows? You know what I mean? I bet there'll be no clarity on this in the next 50 years. That's my prediction.

[A]

Shall we bet? Yeah, what do you want to bet? 100 bucks?

[B]

Yeah, I'd bet 100 bucks.

[A]

Okay, I'm going to bet you 100 bucks right now.

[B]

I'm going to bet 100 bucks that there are just as many, you know, paranormal occurrences and experiences like this, but with no hard evidence, you know, nobody. Reverse engineering.

[A]

That's not a bet. We got to make a solid bet here. I'm going to bet you 100. Bet. $100 bet.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Within the next two years. Two years. So it's a two year timeline. You can. Within the next two years, the federal government is going to show proof that we have been collecting crashed alien ships.

[B]

You think in the next two years, the federal government. Okay, yeah, I'll bet you. You got this, you got this, you got this. People have been saying that kind of stuff for 50 years.

[A]

Yes. See, this is not fair. You know why this isn't fair?

[B]

Why?

[A]

Because you are a much. You're healthier psychologically and physically than I am. Meaning that you're not online all the time. You're not online all the time. Meaning you're probably not aware of all the stuff that's happening right now. And I just made up pretty much like that was like a scam bet. So it's not really fair.

[B]

Yeah, you may as well just give me a hundred bucks right now.

[A]

How does it turn into me giving you 100 bucks?

[B]

You think the federal government is gonna release evidence of alien activity in the next two years?

[A]

Josh, pull up Trump's. Pull up Trump's four, four point plan in revealing alien technology. This isn't fair. I have more information than you do.

[B]

Trump been executing well on all of his plans because I feel like all his plans in the real world aren't really going that well, let alone his alien plans.

[A]

As you remember, I recently directed the secretary.

[B]

Have you noticed that all your videos are from the New York Post? You're basically just like watching New York Post.

[A]

What? Josh, why are you doing that? It's my algorithm.

[B]

Well, but this is what I'm saying is that it's just feeding you UFO stuff because you're into UFOs.

[A]

Josh, are you working for the New York Post? Why do you do that? I've never even noticed that you notice stuff like that.

[B]

Because I look at sources for that stuff. You're kind of like, it's just somebody's YouTube channel.

[A]

Anything.

[B]

Josh, weird stuff.

[A]

Josh either shows me stuff from the New York Post or Turning Point. Why do you do that? Josh, who are you working for, man? Who are you working for? Get out. Get the New York Post Office. So Trump has, you know, and I agree with you, everything he says at this point are just like. In fact, when he said he's going to reveal UFOs, that was a real crushing blow to me because I'm like, okay, there's not UFO, you know, there are no UFOs.

[B]

Yeah, that's why you're just going to give me a hundred bucks right now.

[A]

It's a two year bet. It's a two year bet. It's gonna, I think it's gonna happen within, like the next few months.

[B]

We'd extend to three to make it through his whole presidency. If you really think it's gonna.

[A]

Well, I would extend it to three if I thought the planet would exist in three years. I think within two years we're gonna get it. But that's cool. I, I think, yeah, I get it. Like, the kind of mind you have to have to do what you do has got to cut out all the bullshit, right? Like, you can't really get lost in the sauce when you're up there on the. I mean, ideally on a cliff, on a cliff face, you know, you can't, you have to have the most clear. You can't fuck up.

[B]

We certainly try not to.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And I just, I'm really curious about that. I'm really curious about, like, what do you do? Like, do you have, like, breathing methods you do up there? What do you do when you find yourself in a pinch up there?

[B]

Yeah, I try to breathe all day, every day.

[A]

Breathe, just don't. I just never stop to stop breathing. I've noticed when I stop breathing, shit gets weird.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. No, no, there's no particular thing. I mean, basically it's just practice. You just go soloing a lot and you get better at soloing.

[A]

When was the first time you soloed?

[B]

I think in my home climbing gym when I was a kid, after hours.

[A]

Did your parents know you were doing that?

[B]

No, I mean, in the gym, you know, I mean, there's all a spectrum between I'm bouldering, I'm climbing with the rope, and then I'm climbing a little higher without the rope. You know, it's like, I don't know. In a gym with a padded floor, you're kind of like even soloing. Like, well, it's only 30ft to a padded floor.

[A]

Did your parents have, like, strict rules for you in that gym or did they just trust you were going to be okay?

[B]

No, no, they Didn't. They didn't know anything about it.

[A]

They didn't even know. They didn't come and watch you.

[B]

My dad would come and belay quite a bit. My mom, like, busy, didn't know anything about climbing until I was like, in my 20s.

[A]

Did she have any kind of reservations about your, like, this was the direction?

[B]

No. They were like, well, I mean, I don't think either of them thought of as a direction. They weren't like, at no point I thought, like, this is what I'm gonna do with my life. Because then they probably would have been more stressed.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, but. But no, as far as, like, healthy hobbies go, you know, I was, I grew up in suburban California. I was biking to the gym all the time and rock climbing and I was getting great grades. So you're kind of like, I mean, I don't know, certainly worse hobbies to have.

[A]

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. You think, you think our culture has gotten a little like, too safety conscious right now?

[B]

Like, I mean, yeah, my parents gave me a lot of latitude in terms of just like biking by myself. And it was like seven and a half miles each way. So it's like a 15 mile journey across town to go to the climbing gym. And I like crossed a river and like bike paths and in the dark. And I never had a light on my bike. So I had all these misadventures biking home in the dark. And my parents just like, you know, as long as you go, like, basically they were totally unstressed about it.

[A]

How old were you?

[B]

I don't know, from like 13 to 18 or something.

[A]

Right? Yeah. And like, yes, I want, you know, but the rubber really hits the road when you have kids. We both have kids and you know, and you, you recognize like that there is something in children that is. Has no, no fear. Not because they're impervious to fear, but they haven't really hurt themselves yet. They're not aware.

[B]

Experienced terrible things.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. And so there's this constant, I don't know, there's just this constant shift between helicopter parenting or neglect. You know what I mean? Like, it's finding that line of cause of letting them fall, letting them get hurt within reason, but you, you can't let them do certain things.

[B]

Yeah, you're just trying to avoid catastrophic injury.

[A]

Yeah. So are you, are you finding that with your kids, like, if you hit that place yet?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, definitely. I mean, I think a big part of parenting is, is, you know, sort of spotting my kids, like, making sure they don't get really hurt. But then ideally, them not really knowing that you're spotting. You know what I mean? So they feel like they have full agency. They feel like they're doing their thing and they're exploring and they're adventurous. They're having a great time.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But you are there to make sure they don't get catastrophically hurt.

[A]

Yeah. Are your little kids climbing already?

[B]

Yeah, like climbing on stuff. They're not like rock climbing cliffs. I mean, or a little bit, but not really.

[A]

Yeah. Just because they see you do it and you know, because.

[B]

And we have like a home gym and so obviously they climb the gym and play around and I mean, literally everyone they know climbs.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

You're including their grandparents, you know, all the in laws and like my cousin's like, you know, like everybody that everyone that my kids have ever interacted with basically climbs.

[A]

Man, it is such an insane subculture. And beautiful. It's beautiful. I'm just an observer, but I love watching mountain climbing documentaries. I love the logic you all have. I don't remember the documentary on Netflix. It's so intense because, God, you probably saw, I'm sure you saw which one they're trying to climb.

[B]

Meru.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Three guys on a big wall.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Camping and it's crazy and it's snowy.

[A]

Yes. And they're about to. They're about to summit, but they're doing this climber math and they realize that no food. What? Realize why the risk is not acceptable. Even though they're right there. Right there. If they just rolled the dice, they'd probably make it and they'd gone through all this trouble to get there. But because at this moment, the calculus was, no, it's too dangerous. They didn't do it. They went back down. And I found that to be so impressive and so powerful. Man, that's such a powerful decision. But what would those people think about what you do?

[B]

I mean, same. Same thing. I mean, the thing is, I think they would think that that decision was obvious in the moment. And I think that the decisions that I'm making my free soul linger seem obvious in the moment. You know what I mean? I think it stems from the same thing where you're trying to have a big experience in nature, trying to like climb a wall, do something exciting. But obviously you want to be able to go home.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so you're willing to push to a point, but not past it.

[A]

Yeah. And so how often have you found yourself going back down or just realize.

[B]

Yeah, a fair amount. I mean, actually, even in the film Free Solo, you know, I bail on my first attempt at freezing all cap, but I've definitely have bailed off all kinds of solos.

[A]

Are you? Do you? So in those moments where you're sort of. Foreign. This episode of the DTFH is brought to you by Mint Mobile. To quote the Mystic George Gurdjieff, you can never awaken using the same system that put you to sleep in the first place. It's not gonna work, guys. And Mint Mobile clearly was inspired by this incredible mystical teacher when they created Mint Mobile. How are you going to wake up? How are you going to gain realization? How are you going to actualize your consciousness and tune in to the guy in mind? If you're paying too much for wireless, it's never going to happen. You must have the ability to untether yourself from these rotten technological anchors, these vampiric parasitic companies that are slurping your bucks away. You don't have to do that. You don't have to overpay for wireless just because that's how it's always been. Mint exists purely to fix that. They're here to rescue you with premium wireless plans starting at 15 bucks a month. 15 bucks a month? That's nothing. That's one and a half Pokemon cards. I don't know how much Pokemon cards cost. I'm sure there's probably more for Pokemon cards. All plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. And I gotta tell you man, I'm thinking about untethering right now. I'm gonna name the company that's currently got its vampiric Lovecraftian proboscis jammed right into the heart of my family. I think I'm gonna. Think I'm gonna break free. Wish this had existed 15 years ago. Bring your own phone and number. Activate with ESIM in minutes. You start saving immediately. No long term contracts, no hassle. If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop [e-mail] Duncan that's mintmobile.com Duncan thank you. Mint Mobile. Upfront payment of $45 for three month five gigabyte plan required, equivalent to $15 a month new customer offer for first three months only. Then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. Calculating instantaneously whether you should keep going or go back down. In those moments, how much are you wrestling with yourself? Is there any wrestling with yourself?

[B]

Yes, sometimes a little. I mean, often, you know, you're like, oh, I should bail but then you're like, God, I don't want to be light duty. You know, it's like, maybe. And then you're always kind of wondering like, well, maybe I can, you know, sneak past it some other way. Or like, you know, maybe there's some way around this. You know, when you're sort of like, I don't think I want to climb this because I think this is too hard, let's say, or the rock quality is too bad or whatever else. But you're like, but maybe I can go out to the right and go around it and then, and then keep going.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it's like there's always, I think your mind gravitates towards sort of escapist thinking where you're like, well, I can't do this, but what about some other thing? Maybe I can sneak it out anyway. Like, surely I can find a way to make it work. Yeah, I mean, the same way that you, you know, like when you're driving, you hate to make just a U turn. You hate to be like, I was just going the wrong way, I'm giving up, I hate it. And you'd rather make a loop out of it or be like, oh, I went for a little journey and like, it's fine, you. I wound up back where I started, but at least I had an adventure. It's like, I think with soloing, it's kind of the same way. You don't want to just like give up and be like, I failed. But if you're like, well, I took a detour and I wound up back where I started and had a great outing, then it like feels better on the inside.

[A]

Yeah, right, exactly. Because that's, because the point, I mean,

[B]

you just don't want to feel like a failure, but at the same time you want to survive.

[A]

Yeah. Because in what you do, obviously failure is like extinction. Like, it's, it's over. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Though in climbing in general. So, I mean, you know, I only free solo occasionally. Most of the time training my garage or climb with friends or climb with ropes or whatever, like normal climbing. And in normal climbing, you fail all the time, non stop. I mean, you basically every time you climb. Because if you're pushing your, you know, if you're pushing your limits, you're always falling. And so, you know, five days a week, you're just failing non stop as a climber.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then on the occasional free solos, that's where you make sure you don't fail.

[A]

How often are you free soloing? How often do you do it?

[B]

Not that much anymore. Mostly because where I live, I've kind of tapped out all the things that I care about. Soling and then. And then easy soling for me now doesn't feel that worthwhile, basically because it's like a waste of the time that I could spend training or doing other things right. And so though I actually went easy soloing the other day just to get

[A]

a little outing I'd like to have easy soloing.

[B]

Like, very easy. Like, I stated my approaches, so like sort of in your sneakers, just clown open.

[A]

But if I easy soloed, you would die.

[B]

Not that easy. Like, it's still. Still rock climbing.

[A]

For a second, I'm like, holy. I could do it.

[B]

You could do it with a rope. Like, I mean, the thing that I solid, like, you could easily get up if somebody had a rope and they were talking you through it. And like, any fit that normal person could probably get up it with some. With some doing well. You know, they'd be like, this is crazy. You know, you feel pretty insane.

[A]

I'm sure when you look at me, you realize we're brethren when it comes

[B]

to elite levels of fitness.

[A]

For sure. Yeah. Elite levels of fitness. But you see in my. You see in my eyes the look of a free solo climber.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

[A]

So I'll tell you. Let me tell you why I ran a ropes course when I worked at a summer camp. So I know what it's like to free solo. No, I was always.

[B]

You had a full body harness and a helmet on at all times.

[A]

But, you know, But I'll tell you, man, what was really cool about that is before I did that, I was terribly afraid of heights. And this guy who ran the summer camp, like, I lived in town, he's like, I want to show you what we've built. And I go out there, I'm like, holy shit, that's crazy. It's so far up in the trees. That's crazy. And he's like, you're going to run it this summer. I'm like, what the. No, I'm not. Are you out of your mind? I can't. I'm afraid of heights. And he's like, I know, but you're gonna run it. And, man, it was the most terrifying thing the first time, even with ropes climbing up there. And then I just remember, like, how beautiful it felt to, like, overcome this phobia. And I would go up. By the end of the summer, I was like, always up there. I would climb up there and just like, lay on the one at this long log, you'd get the kids to cross and, like, the trees would breathe, and it lifts you up and down. And it was this transcendent experience, Man.

[B]

I think that's a big part of what people love about climbing, is that that whole process of going from, like, this seems crazy. That's so scary to. I feel comfortable and confident and good. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You should have become a climber.

[A]

It's never too late.

[B]

I mean, never too late.

[A]

Four kids. We just upped my life insurance policy. I'm sure my wife wouldn't fight me on it. She'd probably let me go free climbing with you now.

[B]

Yeah, I get some.

[A]

But, yeah, that's kind of the. I do think that's sort of another thing that you, like, just with what you do is, like, that inspires people, you know, it really does. It inspires people to, like, kind of push their boundaries and to, like, move.

[B]

But I think it's. Yeah. Inspires people to push their boundaries in whatever way they feel like they need to push their boundaries. Like, actually, I kind of noticed this during the Free Solo Film tour, which is now a long time ago, but because I was interacting with so many audiences and people, like, watch the film, and then after, they're like, I signed up for a half marathon or I'm, like, going to replant my garden or what. You know, it's like the stuff that they've been sort of sitting on that they feel like they should do or they want to do, but they just haven't quite executed. Nobody watches it, and they're like, I'm going to go free solo. And, like, everyone watches it, and they're like, I'm going to start working on that book that I've been thinking about for so long.

[A]

You're right. You're right. Very few people. I mean, very few people.

[B]

Probably actually some kids. I mean, you know, I have met young climbers and things who are like, oh, I saw that. And I'm like, now I'm living in a van and climbing or doing whatever.

[A]

Well, when I watch. When I watched that, it inspired me to make a little animated song that I would like to show you if I could. It's called Free Climbing. You're gonna have to cut through this, Josh, and maybe cut out the part so you get to the incredible animation I did. Keep going.

[B]

Did you do the animation?

[A]

Oh, all of that. It's definitely not AI. Keep going. Keep going. Wait, go back.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

Go back.

[B]

I see that. I see the muscular Go back a little bit.

[A]

Go back a little bit to the very beginning of this. Let's show Alex. This is my song, Free Climb. You inspired this. This is called Free Climbing. Go ahead and play this. Sittin on ledge I'm about to fly. What's the to live when your heart is dead? What's the singing? You're singing somebody else's song. That's when he climbed up and he said to me, where are your ropes? What are you doing out here? I laugh and told him I free climb. Is this.

[B]

Yeah. This is why the hands are so fucked up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, who went. This guy's arms.

[A]

And he threw his ropes off the ledge. He smiled and said, you inspire me. Little ways up, he lost his rhythm. I watched his body splatter on the ground below. I climbed to him and his last words to me were, he set his keeper free. I think about him every now and then, wondering who was luckier, was in me or him. Did I kill a man or did I complication? But. See, you inspire art.

[B]

If you call that art.

[A]

What the. How dare you. Oh, I can't wait to get that hundred bucks from you. I can't wait. Yeah, that. See, this is. This man, he was climbing up there, you know, to. How do you have to say it on YouTube? Unalive himself. There you go, you see. And a climber was like climbing. And song's like, what are you doing? And he felt embarrassed. He was unaliving himself. So he's like, I'm free climbing. And then that guy fell.

[B]

The climber did.

[A]

Yeah, the climber did.

[B]

Does seem less likely that the climber would fall off than the guy that doesn't know how to climb.

[A]

Well, see, that was that. That's. That. That's the sad part is that I

[B]

didn't actually pick up on any of that in the, in the.

[A]

Show it to him again. I'm okay.

[B]

I'm okay. It was slightly hard to understand. I was maybe just hung up on the animation and things, you know, the artistic expression.

[A]

Well, you know, this was the glory days of AI video because like a couple years or this was a while ago. Yeah, because. Because back then it wasn't good. And so it would just make this horrific, like monstrous shit it would spit out. Just, just the AI is like hallucinating and. Yeah, but that to me is like, you know, when, when. That's got to be something you think about though. It's like, holy shit, man. You don't want people to free climb watching that. It's not like you're telling people to do that, by the way.

[B]

But yeah, yeah, no, obviously, though, I will say that the soling, I do think is very self selective or sort of self gravity. I don't know what you. I don't know what the term for it is, but basically, you know, even if somebody watches a video and they're like, I want to go soloing, and then they start to go soloing, you're like, we have to choose every move you make. So once you're six feet off the ground, you're kind of like, oh, you know, I'm like starting to feel a little high. And then you have to choose to make the next move, and then you're six and a half feet off the ground, and then you're like, I got to chew. You know what I mean? It's like, I mean, there are other sports, like, you know, skiing, let's say, where like, if you're young and impressionable, you watch a ski foam, you're like, I'm gonna huck this cliff. Like, it's gonna be sick. And like, once you point your skis and you go like you're hucking the cliff one way or another. But with soling, by the time you get yourself into a position where you could actually die, like say 50ft off the ground, you had to make a lot of choices to get there. And it takes quite a long time. And it requires a fairly high degree of skill to get that high off the ground. And so, you know, it's like you can't just fall into that situation by accident. You know what I mean?

[A]

Is it easier going up or going down?

[B]

It depends how fast you're going down, you know?

[A]

See, you're funny, man.

[B]

You know, we're doing stand up.

[A]

Yeah, but true. I mean, this is just something I just wonder because I'm looking.

[B]

So. Yeah, the real answer is that, you know, fundamentally down climbing is easier because it's gravity assisted. So, like, if you're say like climbing a chimney where you're like in a, you know, you imagine like kids in a door frame, you know, where your counter pressure, like pushing against the sides going up, that is pretty laborious. Going back down, it's pretty easy.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Just kind of like slide down.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Pretty chill.

[A]

I gotcha.

[B]

But if you're face climbing, like what people imagine, like in a gym, you know, where you're grabbing discreet hand and footholds. Yeah, that's a little bit harder going down because when you look down, you know, your body's kind of blocking Your feet. Because.

[A]

Right.

[B]

With your feet. So it just makes a little more.

[A]

Awkward.

[B]

Awkward.

[A]

So what are you doing? Like, you just have to kind of remember the steps that ideally you remember

[B]

some of them, but also you're just leaning out and looking down really carefully and looking at your feet a lot and just takes longer. It typically takes like at least 20% more time to go down.

[A]

Will you squeeze my hand?

[B]

I could if you want.

[A]

Yeah, because. Yeah, I just. I'm scared of this. But don't. Don't break my hand. But give me like. Because, like. Will you show your. Can you just show your hands, dude?

[B]

Oh, like where.

[A]

Look at that. Holy shit. You're like a squirrel. Like those are not those. Look at, look.

[B]

Do you think of squirrels as having particularly large hands?

[A]

You gotta see the squirrels in my yard. They're fucked. Here, look. Put your, put your hand. Holy Lord, look at that, Josh. Look at that.

[B]

Well, it's like a hard working hands, you know, it's like a stonemason.

[A]

Okay, now just, just don't. Just squeeze.

[B]

Why don't I want to like squeeze?

[A]

No, do it, do it.

[B]

Do it like really hard.

[A]

Don't break it. You fucking broke my hand.

[B]

I didn't break it. That was gentle, dude. You broke my hand. I hope not.

[A]

Fuck. Fuck, dude. I have arthritis, man.

[B]

I was about to say, yeah, osteoarthritis or something.

[A]

That's insane, dude. That's insane. Like you could. What is your grip strength, man?

[B]

It's honestly not that high. It's a. I mean, it's lower than like a bodybuilder or something would be. Just because it's funny because people often give you like a grip meter, you know, like the little thing you can squeeze or like, I don't know, you call that. And they expect like huge numbers, but that's just not what you do, you know? I mean like when you're trying to climb something, you don't crush the rock into powder, you just hang from it. So, you know, it's like you want to be strong under like a static load.

[A]

But you have. But like you have finger muscles.

[B]

Like all the muscle on your hand is controlling your forearm. My fingers are just fat.

[A]

Sadly, you don't have fat fingers.

[B]

Well, they're just.

[A]

They're just like, wow, he has connective tissue.

[B]

Probably tend his ligaments. I mean like crack climbing. When you climb big walls, you're shoving your fingers in and torquing them. And that kind of like probably makes your fingers fatter over time.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

They get a Little worked.

[A]

But you could probably, like, if you had to, you could probably, like. You could probably, like, shove your fingers into somebody's chest and pull out their heart.

[B]

I mean, I think that'd be bad for both of us.

[A]

Yeah, but you could maybe. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I've never been in a real fight, but I always felt like if I had to.

[A]

You've never been in a fight?

[B]

No. I mean, have you?

[A]

Look at these eyes.

[B]

You don't really seem like a fighter.

[A]

Look at these eyes. You think, I haven't been a fight? I fought. Are you kidding? I was in prison. Man.

[B]

Though, that cap seems like you got it in the Civil War.

[A]

I got it from. I beat up this dude who was in the Civil War.

[B]

And the beard too, for that matter. Yeah, you're definitely my beard. Like a cavalry.

[A]

No, I glue the hair of people I beat up onto my face. I can't grow. I can't grow beard.

[B]

I can't grow anything like that.

[A]

Oh, man. Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, you. You definitely don't. Yeah, I've never. Again.

[B]

I've never. In a fight.

[A]

Give me a break. I. I've been like. I think when. When I was in. Oh, I got.

[B]

The whole point of being a comic is to not get beat up, huh?

[A]

Exactly. We have to develop some kind of. Some. Some weird thing to avoid getting beat up. But. Yeah, I mean, but you. I doubt you were like, bullied when you were a kid.

[B]

No, not really.

[A]

Because you're athletic.

[B]

Well, I was a pretty dorky kid. And being a rock climber is not really athletic. Athletic. And certainly I didn't have any muscles as a kid. You know, you're just like a twiggy little kid that's climbing a lot.

[A]

You don't think rock climbing is athletic?

[B]

Well, I mean, it's just not like a jock. You know what I mean? If you're in high school and you're an elite rock climber, you don't look like you're fit.

[A]

Right. But so you.

[B]

Now that I'm like a 40 year old dad, I'm like, yeah, filled out a little more and a little more muscular and whatever. But that's not like the natural climbing build necessarily.

[A]

This episode of the DTFH is brought to you by Ethos. Listen, I know you've seen all the commercials where you get beaten over the head with your own mortality because they're trying to sell you life insurance. And I understand right now if you're cringing that I'm doing a life insurance commercial, but, dude, look, at me. I need life insurance. I got four kids. I used to live in a world where I didn't need life insurance. And I know this sounds ridiculous, but I feel. Do you have life insurance, Josh? Yes. You feel better, right? When you get it, you feel better. It just makes you feel better to know you could get your brain splattered all over the highway and your family's going to be okay. You know that a swarm of bees, not indigenous to where you're from, killer bees could just attack you. And in those last agonizing moments, at least you know your family was taken care of. Ethos makes getting life insurance fast and easy. It's 100% online. You can get a quote in seconds, apply in minutes, and get same day coverage. There's no medical examination. You just answer a few simple health questions. Let me tell you, when I got my life insurance, they took every fluid they could find out of my body to analyze it. You can get up to 3 million in coverage. Some policies are as low as $30 a month and you'll get your lowest rate from their network of trusted carriers. Ethos. It has 4.8 out of 5 stars on Trustpilot with over 4000 reviews. Take 10 minutes to get covered today with life insurance through Ethos, you get your free [e-mail] Duncan. That's ethos.com Duncan. Application times may vary. Rates may vary. Yeah, I mean, you're like a walking muscle man. Like you, you just don't realize it. Cause you look at yourself in the mirror every day. Like you don't, you don't realize it. But you, you look like you could, like, if you needed to get into a safe, you could like rip the metal off. You're basically a superhero.

[B]

No, definitely not. I think of myself more as a middle aged dad that loves to do outdoor sports.

[A]

When you watch, you know, I always think about, like, it must be weird to be a surgeon and watch any kind of movie where doctors. Yeah. So when you're like watching Spider man or any superhero movies and you see climbing moves, is the climber part of you coming out and thinking, like, that's a weird way to do that?

[B]

I mean, superhero movies, not so much because you just suspend disbelief and you're like, I mean, Spider man, it's sick. He just does all kinds of crazy things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's all fun. When you watch Hollywood films that are supposed to be realistic depictions of rock climbing, that's when you're a little more like, huh, like that's weird. But also I mean, now at this point, you know, I know a lot of the people that work on that stuff or consult on that stuff or who film those types of things. So a lot of the time you're sort of like, oh, my buddy, you know, was like the second unit camera for this, like, whole mountain scene. And you're like, oh, that's. That's cool. You know, it's like, fun to see people's work.

[A]

I'm so glad you brought that up because that brings me to, like, the. This is like, I think the somewhat unacknowledged heroes of the climbing world.

[B]

Camera people who.

[A]

What the fuck is happening? Who are they? Like, I'm looking like you forget someone's filming it. I know some of its drones, but actually.

[B]

Well, so, like, in the film Free Solo, like, basically none of its drones because it's in national park, you're not allowed to fly.

[A]

Who the fuck is. Who's. How are you doing that in filming and doing perfect shots? Like, it's not just like.

[B]

Well, because you're always repelling in from the top. So it's like you're hiking to the summit with ropes and then you're rappelling down. So you're just dangling on a rope with a backpack and a camera and all the stuff and no problem. Yeah, it's easy.

[A]

Easy. You're right. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, it is easier than climbing in so much as, you know, it's obviously easier to hike the top of something and rappel down.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it does require a very particular expertise and, you know, a high degree of skill.

[A]

Yeah. And also, like, you. You know that, like, no one's. No one's going to know that you were dangling from a rope off this cliff face. No one's going to know who you are. They're just going to.

[B]

That's why I think, you know, like, in the film Free Solo, like, Yeah. I joke, like, Jimmy Chin co directed Free Solo and co directed Mary, the film you were talking about earlier.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he's in both of them, like, little talking head type deal.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And I kind of joke that, you know, the cameraman always puts himself into the movie because you're like, well, but look at these guys. Like, these guys are rad.

[A]

They deserve it. They deserve it. It's nice. Without them, we wouldn't get to watch.

[B]

Yeah. There'd be no film.

[A]

Yeah. So. Okay.

[B]

And actually, to their credit, I mean, the. The film team, part of the reason I even made the film Free Solo is that it's actually. It was Helpful for me to have the team for all my prep because basically for me to practice on the wall, I'd hike to the top, I'd rapel down, I'd work on all the things. And basically it's easier to do that with a partner. And so having a film crew is a right. You know, one of the filmers is a partner for that type of stuff just makes it all work better. And so it's all, it's all a team effort, basically.

[A]

Josh, can you grab me some ice for my hand? You really me up, man. Like, you did that on purpose. Like you heard it crack. I have osteoporosis. You're incredible. And I've smoked weed my whole life, so I forget things. But what's the name of your Netflix, the thing you just did on Netflix

[B]

where you climbed the building? Typewriter 101.

[A]

Okay. When I was watching that, I was legitimately nervous for you, man, because I am looking at that building and I'm thinking like, the difference between this building, this is not rock. That's been there forever. This is man made. I'm looking at you grab these things. I'm like, dude, how did you safety check an entire building? How do you know when you're grabbing this place or that. That it's not going to break or fall off or the construction worker wasn't, you know, being a little slack that day.

[B]

Yeah, part of it's structural. You know, something's like part of the building. You know, there are always things where you're like, that's ornamental and it's just like bolted on and stuff where you're like, this is the building.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so like with, with type 101 part of it, you know, I was climbing the. The arete, like the outside corner of the building. So I was basically squeezing the two sides of the building together. So right there it makes the whole thing feel safer because instead of holding one thing where like if the thing breaks and you fall off, this is like your squeeze easing the whole mountain.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Or the corner of the building.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So like that's part of it. But then also part of it was that like. So I mean, breaking a hold is obviously a concern on real rock as well. Like if you're climbing and you snap something and the rock snaps.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then you fall off and you die. And so that's always kind of the thing you're worried about is like, what if I break something? But with buildings, in a lot of ways it's less scary because metal just doesn't Snap like that in the same way, you know, like, it deforms. Like, it bends it. It, like, crumples before it snaps.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so on the building, like, you can feel all the things have a little bit of give to them. Like, if you bounce on some of the ledges, you really pull hard. Like, you can make the things flex.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you're just not gonna. It's not just gonna rip off. You know what I mean? Like, and also, I mean, I would say the quality assurance on a massive skyscraper, like, the biggest building in the city, is way higher than. It's not like, the trim on your roof or something, because, like, on a suburban house, it's like, yeah, pieces fall off. Like, nobody really cares.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But on one of these skyscrapers, if a piece falls off, somebody's gonna die.

[A]

Yeah, it's kind of like.

[B]

And it's routinely exposed to high winds. Like, basically, they are built, well, much better than you would think from just looking at, like, casual buildings around town.

[A]

Wow. Man, that was. I just kept wondering, like, that said

[B]

there were a few pieces missing here and there. And you are sort of like, hmm, that's a little.

[A]

But didn't you map it out first?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I checked it all ahead of time.

[A]

How?

[B]

Well, I climbed it, like, with a rope once. Just, like, check it.

[A]

Okay, I gotcha. And you just. Just. You did that same path?

[B]

Yeah, roughly. I mean, it was. Honestly, it's hard to remember because the building is, like, kind of all the same.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was alternating between one corner. Basically. They're. They're three corners on the corner of the building. It makes a little, like, accordion thing, goes in, out again. And I zigzagged around on it. Anyways, like, confusing as to, like, which bamboo box you're on, which corner you're supposed to be climbing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because they were moving the camera positions around, and, like, they're different angles for different things and whatever.

[A]

What did the. The pitch for that look like? Like, how did that come up? How did you. Did you pitch it to Netflix or did they.

[B]

No. So, like, more than 10 years ago, a friend had sort of pitched the idea to a different network as, like, let's do a live thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we scouted it, and we checked the building, and we'd, like, looked at a handful of buildings around the world, and that was the best one. But then the. That project fell apart. And so now, for the last, you know, 10 years plus, in the back of my mind, I've, like, known that I could climb the building but you just don't really want to do it without permission and without.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, being a thing. And then. Yeah. I don't know. I made a couple TV shows with this company based in the UK that. That I loved working with. It was, like, good experiences, and they were, like, looking for other projects, and so they. They pitched this around, and then Netflix was into it.

[A]

Did I. I gotta ask, man. What was the. You know, making any kind of show, you've gotta, like, you have to get insurance and stuff.

[B]

Well, yeah. And so. So to be fair, you're like, how do you make the show? Like, honestly, I don't really know because, you know, I talked to the production company and they're kind of like, we're gonna pitch this thing. And I'm like, sure. You guys do you like, right? Because at any given time, I have a bunch. You know, there are many people pitching many things, and realistically, only a small fraction actually come to fruition.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Most of them just wither and die or, like, never, Never happen. And so I'm always kind of like, you know, if you have an idea, run with it. Because I don't really believe it's ever gonna happen. And, like, with the building thing, you know, for months, I was kind of like, yeah, cool. You know, you guys, do you. You do you. And then it was kind of like, oh, it's coming together. And I was like, really? Like, it's coming together. Like, we're actually gonna do this. And then it was, you know, it's actually happening. We did a scout a couple months ahead of time where we went back to the building. That's when you get all the, like, marketing material stuff and, like, the photos of.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Standing below the building looking heroic and whatever. And then I was like, oh, wow, we're, like, actually doing it. You know, but even then, you don't totally believe it until you're there for the climb. Because, like, at the last moment, the network can pull out. Anybody could pull out, and it just doesn't happen.

[A]

It's always. It's quite often that.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Like, it wouldn't be at all surprising. And so literally, the week of the climb, I'm there, I'm prepped, I'm ready to do it. And you're still kind of like, you know, we'll see. We'll see.

[A]

Right?

[B]

I actually do it. And I was like, this is so sick. It's so fun.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like, you don't really believe until you're actually doing it.

[A]

Well, right, because, you know, Your. Your general experience with climbing has not been like an audience, a global audience. Watch the global part.

[B]

You don't notice because for me, climbing it, you know, it's basically the same experience as making the film free solo, where it's like I have a handful of friends hanging here and there on ropes. And actually it's many of the same friends. It was actually super fun because it was like getting the band back together, you know, all my friends, like, on the wall. Cool thing.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

Just like, oh. So. Except that this time instead of, like staying in tents, we're all staying at the Grand Hyatt across the street. You know, it's like totally. It's like totally baller.

[A]

It's baller.

[B]

And then when you're done with the climb, you take the elevator and you go get some snacks and you're just like, wow, this is so chill compared to mountain climbing.

[A]

Oh, my God, dude, it was awesome. It's my favorite part was like, the people who apparently had no idea. Some people. You freak. The, like, some people did not understand what was happening. And the expressions were incredible. But also I got worried there because, you know, I got worried they're going to distract you or, you know, that this is going to. With your head. Anything could have happened, you know.

[B]

Yeah, but that kind of stuff all seems within the tolerance because, like, when you're out soloing, nature, you know, they're ants, they're birds, they're bats. There's like all kinds of stuff. You know, there's nature, basically. There's like stuff happening. Like you might see a snake or like.

[A]

But the snake's not taking like a selfie with you in the background.

[B]

Well, but like, if you put like in real nature, like you put your hand into a crack, sometimes bats will hiss. Like, because, you know, you're crack climbing so you're following these fissures. And like, often, I mean, if you put your hand, like, I've had birds, like, run down my arm and fly away. Had like. Have you ever heard a bat, like, hiss? No, they scream. It's like this horrible noise. It's very scary.

[A]

Can you pull up bat hiss just so people can really get it.

[B]

Like a bat scream. It's like this horrible noise. It's like really quite scary. But basically you like, put your hand into a crack and it's like screams at you, basically. And you're like. And you can hear like things skittering inside that. You know what I mean?

[A]

So think how scary it is for the bat. You think the bat's Scary like some suddenly.

[B]

Yeah, like, look at that thing. Like, it's from the New York Post. I love the New York Post.

[A]

Show the Turning Point bat.

[B]

Wait, but where's the noise? No, that's.

[A]

That's a cat. Come on, Josh. Come on, Josh.

[B]

That didn't quite do. Just. I don't know if that's the real

[A]

look for another one.

[B]

That's a. Yeah, basically, it's like this horrible hype.

[A]

I mean, I don't. I mean, I do want to hear. There we go. Back call sound noises.

[B]

Well,

[A]

They don't do that. That's not. Get off of my crack here.

[B]

Scroll back up. There was one that said screams like a monster. What's the massive bat scream?

[A]

Yeah, that one. That one.

[B]

The one in the middle there. Massive bat screams like a monster.

[A]

Is that real?

[B]

Is that. I know. I'm like, what?

[A]

That's not. That's not real, Josh.

[B]

Yeah, like, what is that?

[A]

That's not a. That's the. This is the world we're in now. Alex, you don't. In the old days, you used to be able to find bats.

[B]

That's why I don't surf YouTube, you know, exactly. Basically, if you want to experience it, just climb enough cracks and eventually, okay, find one.

[A]

All right. Everybody just go climbing up and stick your. Stick your hand in cracks. I didn't even think of that.

[B]

Like frogs, like caterpillars, like all kinds of things, you know.

[A]

Have you been bitten by a bat?

[B]

I don't think so. I've been stung by bees, I guess. Dude, actually, that does not do justice.

[A]

That's like a dog toy.

[B]

Yeah, that's like a lovely. That's all I do. Like.

[A]

So can you imitate what it sounds like?

[B]

Like really loud, really high pitched and like. Like a serious hiss, you know, you're like.

[A]

But you.

[B]

I mean, but basically it's very startling if you put your hand into a crack and then something screams at you and you.

[A]

It's not like when you're climbing, you can shine a flashlight in the crack to make sure there's not a bad in it. You just have to pray to God. Yeah, there's not a.

[B]

Well, typically things live deep enough in that your hand isn't going to disturb it. But that's not always the case. Wow.

[A]

That I never once thought.

[B]

But. So the worst thing is ants, because. So like in the springtime in Yosemite, let's say. Yeah, it's like red ant season. And a lot of the cracks that you're climbing will literally be Highways of ants running up and down them. And so when you're climbing, the ants just like wander down and they're like biting you and they're crawling all over you and you get bitten and you just can't really stop necessarily. I mean you can kind of like take one hand off and wipe them

[A]

or whatever you do.

[B]

Well, nothing. You just like try to get through it as fast as you can. But if the climbing's hard, you just can't rush it that much. And so you're sort of like, okay. And you just ignore the fact that you're getting bitten by red ants. And when red ants bite you, they let out the smell thing. It's like pretty, it's like a, it's like an acidy smelling like a, or like a acrid, like bitter, you know, like. Anyway, it's like this very particular odor and pain and just like this sucks and you know, what are you gonna do anyway, all that to say like seeing somebody taking a selfie with you through window, less distracting. Like you know, see a snake or like any of these other things.

[A]

It's nothing.

[B]

Yeah, it's like, it's pretty chill.

[A]

Yeah. The. The. This episode is sponsored by Better Help. Listen, friends, these days are weird. I don't know what's going on out there financially in the world. Everything's wibbly wobbly. As my grandfather used to say. It's wibbly wobbly out there. A lot of people are experiencing a lot of stress. Maybe you got a family, maybe you don't. But getting worried over your bank account is unfortunately, I think fairly common these days. 88% of Americans reported feeling some form of financial stress at the start of 2026. Money worries often bring anxiety, sleep disruption and even depression and are one of the leading sources of conflict for couples. This month. We want to normalize the emotional weight of financial stress and remind people that struggling with money doesn't mean they failed. Sometimes it's just about accessing the right kind of support. And you can find that support at BetterHelp. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences and their 12 plus years of experience and industry leading match fulfillment rate means they typically get it right the first time. If you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored RECS. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 6 million people globally. And it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews. When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] dunkin that's betterhelp.com Duncan the show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Thank you, BetterHelp. That's something I never thought about. All these little things. Also, the heat. How hot do those rocks get?

[B]

Like, dude, yeah, no, climbing in the sun. I mean, and climbing shoes are really tight black rubber. I mean, they, like, burn your feet if you're in full sun. So, you know, actually, when I scouted Taipei 101 the first time, it was in September. And so the building, it was like 90 degrees and 90% humidity, which sounds like a normal day in Austin here.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

But it was, like, brutal. And so I went to, like, scout the building to, like, climb it, and I literally jumped up and grabbed it. And the first move, you, like, jump up and start, and it, like, burned my hands. And I basically drum back down. And then I borrowed gloves from one of the riggers, and then I climbed the whole bottom of the building with gloves on because it was, like, burning my skin.

[A]

What if you. I'm so sorry. This seems like a cheap, vulgar question, but I am. What do you do if you have to use the bathroom?

[B]

Well, normally on a cliff, you just go to the bathroom. It's like, no big deal. You just pee off the cliff? Yeah, on the building. That actually was one of my biggest concerns. Really? Because obviously you don't want to be disrespectful. The building, you can't just pee off with their people everywhere, the cameras everywhere. And so I just made sure that I peed right ahead of time. And then, you know, you just hold it for the building.

[A]

Wow. God.

[B]

But, yeah, it was something I was, like, slightly stressed about, honestly, because you're so used to on cliffs, like, just peeing anytime you want to. And so you drink as much as you can. I mean, because on a cliff, there are always places you can stop at circumstances, right? Like, even if something's like a very small foothold, I mean, you can still just stand there and pee out. You know, it's like, pretty chill.

[A]

You gotta wonder how many hikers you've pissed on. You've gotta wonder how many people have been hiking and they're like, whoa, there

[B]

aren't that many people Hiking right at the base of a giant vertical wall.

[A]

You've definitely pissed on a hiker. Like if I, I for sure someone has gotten Altano pissed on them and has no idea that like the greatest climber just. Do you think of yourself as the greatest?

[B]

No, no. Like all of my friends are better than me, but you know, I try my best.

[A]

Who's the good?

[B]

The thing is like, I think you can't really say the greatest climber because it's such a broad sport. So. Yeah, none of my friends are better at free soloing than me necessarily, though there are other people in the world who have done harder solos in different ways and depending how you quantify it and all that kind of stuff. But then if you just think of strongest climber, like the hardest grade you can climb, sport climbing or something with a rope, then, you know, many of my friends are much better. Like, I mean, some of my working friends who are like professionals, you know, who's like a doctor and stuff, and you'll be like, oh, you're still like kind of better than me at a lot of things, even though you're like, you know, I have a full time job. That's annoying.

[A]

Well, I, you know, when you came in, you mentioned that you have a foundation that gets off grid solar to people. Tell me about that. I didn't know you did that. That's so cool.

[B]

Yeah, the Honl Foundation. I started it.

[A]

What's it? The Honda Foundation?

[B]

Yeah, just the Honda found, basically. I knew that I would never make that much money as a rock climber, but I was kind of like, well, if I make it as a public thing, at least I can sort of fundraise more. Which actually has really played out because I think this year we will have, this year we'll pass 20 million in grants that we've given to solar around the world, which is pretty crazy.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you, so how does it work? Like you get you, so you get a pile of money and then how do you pick where to go?

[B]

We do an open call for grant applications around the world. So basically community organizations from anywhere on earth that we sort of have some geographic focuses, both domestically and abroad, but, but basically anyone can apply for a grant to, to use solar for their community.

[A]

What got you into that?

[B]

I mean, I wanted to do something positive for nature. I wanted to help, basically. I wanted to do something useful in the world.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then it's kind of like there's no real point in protecting nature if you're not helping human communities because basically like, humans don't care about nature unless their basic needs are met. So it's kind of like, well, what. What is good for nature and helps humans? And basically, energy access to me, was the fundamental. But also, I think that climate change is. Will be the defining issue of my lifetime. Like, basically, the transition of renewables and transition away from fossil fuels is kind of like the defining thing that I'm going to witness in my life.

[A]

I think, other than alien disclosure.

[B]

Yeah, I don't think that one's going

[A]

to make it, losing 100 bucks.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, we'll see. We'll see. I'd be happy to be proved wrong.

[A]

But listen, I agree with you. You look at what's happening in the world and it is so incredibly obvious and dark that the thing that's fucking the world up right now is that we have become addicted to a black.

[B]

Yeah. Fossil fuels. You're like, it's crazy.

[A]

It doesn't look.

[B]

I like that the US has basically spent the last 25 years in sort of like energy wars, like, all the different conflict in the Middle east and all that kind of stuff. You're just kind of like, do we need to be doing any of that? You're like, why?

[A]

Well, for oil, you got to get the oil.

[B]

It's crazy, though, is the US is the world's largest exporter of oil. Like, we don't really need that either. And yet we're still fighting wars over oil, even though it's like, not even, you know, I mean, it's not like, you know, there are plenty of other countries in the world that don't have domestic oil or gas supplies. And so, like, would make sense for them to fight wars over. Over resources. Right, but, like, we already have the biggest, you know, big export of oil and gas. You're kind of like, I don't think we need to fight people over.

[A]

Well, it's what's really fucked up. I just had Abby Martin on. She's a journalist. She just did a documentary on how many barrels of oil the US military uses per day. So that.

[B]

That's how you drive up oil prices. Just freaking burn it all in your tanks.

[A]

That's where it gets fucked up is like, the thing is fighting oil wars just to get more oil. To fight more oil.

[B]

Yeah, it's insane.

[A]

Feedback loop. Loop of destruction.

[B]

Yeah, it's insane.

[A]

Yeah, dude. I mean, I just. I got a Tesla and it's like, whoa. Just. It's the craziest thing to, like, pay 12 bucks to fill up your car

[B]

and, well, or you have home solar. I mean, because I have home solar and then I drive a Rivian same deal electric car. And so I basically just. You're just totally detached from that. And the thing is, like, once you sort of separate from that system, you are sort of like, man, do I want to go back to paying utility bill and paying for gas and doing all that. You're like, why? You know, like, why do that? Are you looking for the best deal on a new home? Discover the Dr. Horton home of the Week. With new construction homes now selling in ellensburg from the mid-3002, Dr. Horton has the right home at the best value for you, offering one and two story homes near Central Washington University. Your new home is within reach. So what are you waiting for? Learn more about the Dr. Horton Home of the Week. Visit drhorton.com and schedule a tour today. Dr. Horton, America's builder and equal housing opportunity builder.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[A]

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[B]

When it comes to snacking, Skinny Pop just makes sense. Deliciously popped, perfectly salted Skinny Pop. Popular for a reason. And you're kind of like, why does the world still do that? Like, why not just move on?

[A]

Because. Because the people, like the oil companies are. They have all the money. They're the most powerful conglomerates. They have lobbyists. They have propagandists out there who. Because what you're. The thing you're talking about is, like, humans, we just do things the way we've always done it. That's what we're used to. And the thing you're talking about, it's

[B]

like, why don't you do it differently?

[A]

Yeah. We're all tethered. You know, you look up and you see, like, power lines. And you're used to it. Like, people don't even, like. But if we jump back, yeah, 100

[B]

years, then you're like, somebody had to build all those.

[A]

I'm sure it would look horrible. Like, you would look. Actually, someone's been taking AI and showing what cities would look like without power lines. Just the removal of power lines.

[B]

It would be amazing, huh?

[A]

It's beautiful.

[B]

But I think of that. I mean, what do the city be like with removal of fossil fuel? Like, for transit, you know, it's like if everything's driving electric and it's all clean and quiet, you're like, oh, cities would be a lot nicer like without the smell of diesel and exhaust and like truck traffic and just like, you know, just. Yeah, the noise, we all felt it.

[A]

The pandemic. When the pandemic happened in la, I was in la, no one's driving and

[B]

like, yeah, the sky's clear and you're like, oh, this is actually not that bad. Exactly. Take a deep breath. You're like, oh, we are near the ocean actually, and it's kind of nice here. You're like, weird.

[A]

Yeah. You know, this like, this idea of solar which by the way, somehow got like wrapped up in woke. So now, even now, people watching this are like, ugh, fucking woke assholes.

[B]

Talking about, oh, no, take it the other way. Because I mean, I mean, let's talk about energy independence. Let's talk about like, I think the solar should be like a prepper thing, you know, like if you're a hardcore conservative, you should be into Solar 100. Basically. It's like, you don't need to go abroad to get your energy. You freaking make it at home. Well, I mean, like, what about. Let's talk about prices, let's talk about freaking. Yeah, it's like, I want preppers.

[A]

But solar panels, they're evolving, right? Like the, the old, like our, our house has solar panels on them with their old solar panels. So like their ability to convert energy apparently isn't. Isn't that great?

[B]

No, I mean, it's still, it's still more than adequate. Yeah, it's true that panels are getting more efficient and obviously getting, I mean, they've gotten so much cheaper. I mean, now it's the cheapest form of energy in the world. But I mean, any panel still makes energy from the sun. I mean, that's kind of the miracle because even like 30 year old panels are still working, still work great, still producing energy and you're kind of like, especially on a house, you're like, you

[A]

know, but to run a whole house, how many panels do you need for that?

[B]

Oh, no, I mean, I don't know, not that much. Like 4 kilowatts or something.

[A]

Really? That's crazy.

[B]

Well, like, I don't know. I mean, what, that's. Yeah, 20 pounds. I mean, basically depends on the house. Wow, man, you don't need a ton.

[A]

I just don't think people recognize also that if we could have decentralized energy, like, and especially like once we start getting super efficient, Batteries and super efficient solar panels. It's going to untit like, like so much of what we think of as the way society works. We're tethered to energy. We have to have these lines connecting everything. I don't think people realize like, if

[B]

we though even with solar, I mean, ideally you still have a grid. You still have power lines and stuff. Mostly just because, you know, so like my house is on solar, but we're still connected to the grid. We're still tied into the system because we're not using batteries in the house. Basically. Because I don't think that every house needs batteries. Like, every house doesn't need to be its own little kingdom. Like making energy, storing its own energy, using its own. You know, it's like society is stronger with the grid, basically.

[A]

Why do you think that?

[B]

Because you can generate in some places and use it in others. Like, because in my house, you know, I'm making a bunch of solar in the middle of the day, but I'm not necessarily using all that power in the middle of the day. Like, my neighbor might be, you know, running his dryer right then. So you're kind of like, well, my neighbor should be using that power.

[A]

That's so cool.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. So I. So in this sort of utopian.

[B]

Well, that's not even utopian. I think that's how the grid works. Like, basically whoever's using power at the time uses the power.

[A]

Well, yeah. I'm saying though, in the utopian world that you're going to create and lead, I'm beginning to realize you might be like the maitreya. Really, though I don't mean to say utopia, like to say it's bad.

[B]

I'm saying think of utopia by definition is very good.

[A]

Yeah. You know, but people are like, here we go. But if we had. Instead of everyone being connected to like some central place where power is coming from, neighborhoods, neighborhoods that had. Were all had solar and were just sharing energy with each other. That's incredible. Yeah, that would be so beautiful.

[B]

I mean that's, I mean that's. I think, the way the world will be in the next 50 years. Just because that'll be the most cost effective and most elegant. You know, it's kind of like the solution that works. And I'm sort of like, I don't know, I wouldn't be surprised if that's basically the way the world is, is. And certainly that's going to be the way the world is in much of the developing world, because there's just so many places on Earth where they're never going to build a grid. You know, they're never going to build a big coal power plant and then put power lines out. It's like, all going to be decentralized like that. Like micro grids and things, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's a big part of what the work my foundation does is because there are tons of places on Earth where it's, like, never going to be feasible to build conventional power. So you're like, well, you do micro grids. You put panels on roofs and. Yeah.

[A]

You ever go out there to see, like, the. The places you're giving energy to?

[B]

Not particularly. Just because I'm sort of. And I mean, the whole point is, like, environmental benefit. All right, so basically it's like, why fly? Yeah, exactly. Like, why fly to the place? Why Also, like, why burden your partner by showing up being like, give me a tour? Because I want to feel good about what I've done. I'm kind of like, that is my work. Like, that's fine. I think that it's kind of like ecotourism, you know, where you're just like, that is lame.

[A]

You're totally right.

[B]

But I mean, I've done. I've obviously gone to a few places, like, to help in different ways, and then also toured a few things for storytelling sort of stuff because someone's, like, making TV program about one of the projects. And so then you go and you do interviews and you chit out with people, and it's all part of this experience to, like, showcase it in a television program. And then it makes total sense. It feels uncontrived to be there.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And it is. I mean, it is amazing to see. Obviously, like, when you go, it is. It's funny because it is nice for me, you know, I've been working on the foundation last 12, 14 years, I guess 2012, I started it. And yeah, every couple years you, like, do you go to some project like that for storytelling or, you know, for TV or who knows what, and you are like, God, it's so nice to see you. Like, it is very gratifying, you know, like, I know rationally that I don't need to see the projects because, you know, it's like, as long as the work's getting done and the world's getting better, that's all that matters. But then when you do see it, you're like, oh, it does make it easier to do the work when you feel all inspired and motivated.

[A]

That's right. Yeah, man, you should you should do. Yeah, I get it, though. It's cool. I mean, I definitely. On one, you could go in disguise, I guess. You know what I mean? You don't want to go parading around some village and be like, this is. This power is for me.

[B]

Yeah, that's so lame. But on the other hand, when you see it totally transform people's lives, you are like, wow. Like, that's. Like, this is effort worth making, man.

[A]

You are an inspiring human being. You really are. What's your next big climb?

[B]

Don't know. Just. Yeah, actually. I mean, tomorrow I'll be climbing home. Basically. There's. Everyone always asks, like, what's the next project? And, like, these people are asking, like, what's the next big media project? And you just, like, don't really know what the next film or thing will be. I mean, they'll probably be another building if we get permission and if, you know, like, Netflix is into it, obviously, but. Which would be awesome. Like, I'm super psyched for that if it comes together. But, like, who knows if or when that'll come together? In the meantime, I always have my own projects, like, things that I'm working on, but they're not, you know, like, no one's filming. There's no. It's just me going climbing, trying to do things that are hard for me.

[A]

Gotcha.

[B]

So, like, tomorrow I'll go back to try this project that I haven't gotten to try in a couple weeks. It's been too cold where I lived.

[A]

What is it?

[B]

Just, like, some sport route? Just. It's like. I think it'd be the hardest support route I've ever climbed, but. But it's just, you know, like, safe with a rope, just with the buddy. And we'll just be up in the mountain trying this thing, and I'll almost certainly climb half of it and get really tired and fall off and be like, wow, I'm so smoked. You know, it's just. We'll see.

[A]

Wow. Well, you know what I see for us? Our future together. I think we're gonna climb together, you and me.

[B]

Come. Come climbing. Come climbing.

[A]

That's your next show.

[B]

Honestly, the thing I said that I scrambled the other day would be a perfect route for you. You'd love it.

[A]

That's the next show. You take people like me free climbing and we die. That would be incredible. People would love that. People would love that.

[B]

You could pick it or be slightly traumatic because they'd be like, that was my favorite comic. He's gone. No one's gonna say that at least one person will.

[A]

Alex, you are awesome man. Thank you for your time. This been so cool getting to know you man. Thank you.

[B]

It's a total pleasure.

[A]

Ow. Fuck. Dude. Why, why do you keep doing that? Thank you so much everybody. You will find the Honda Foundation. I'm sure online will have all the links down below. Anything you want to. You don't need to plug anything.

[B]

No. Everyone should try rock climbing. It's the best.

[A]

You heard it here. I'm going climbing with Alex right after this.

[B]

Not free soloing, but, you know, go to a gym, check it out. It's so fun.

[A]

You're the best. Thank you.

[B]

Yeah, thank you.

[A]

That was Alex Honnold, everybody. Why don't you check out his foundation? The Honnold Foundation. He's helping people out there in the world. And if you haven't watched Taipei 101 on Netflix yet, please watch. It is crazy to watch this amazing person scale this insanely gigantic building. Come see me do stand up, won't you? I'll see you next week. Until then, Hare Krishna.

[B]

I like things my way. My coffee, my schedule and my treatment. So I talked to my doctor about self injecting with the Vivgard Hytrulo pre filled syringe which contains fgartegamide alpha and hyaluronidase qvfc. It's injected under your skin subcutaneously. It means I can inject in my space on my time. It's my treatment my way. Visit vivgardmyway.com that's V Y-V-G-A-R-T my way.com and talk to your doctor about Vivgart Hytrulo. Brought to you by Argenics on this episode of Plant Killers, we'll explore one nation's most notorious fruit and vegetable killer. Bad dirt. What makes bad dirt so bad? The answer?

[A]

The ingredients. But fear not, true crime enthusiasts, this

[B]

story has a happy ending. Miracle Gro organic raised bed in garden soil. It's made with quality organic ingredients from upcycled green waste like compost and aged bark. Unlike the other guys who can't say the same. Looks like bad dirt's murdering days are over, thanks to Miracle Gro.

[A]

Join us next time on Plant Killers.

[B]

For many men, mental health challenges aren't recognized until they've already taken a toll. Work pressure, financial stress, changing relationships and traditional expectations around masculinity can quietly wear men down, often without clear warning signs. In season three of the Visibility Gap, Dr. Guy Winch and his guests explore how these pressures show up, how to spot them earlier, and how men can access meaningful support. Listen to the new season of the Visibility Gap, a podcast presented by Cigna Healthcare.