758: A Conversation with the CIA's Chief Redactor

Summary

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Duncan Trussell Family Hour

Episode 758: A Conversation with the CIA's Chief Redactor

Date: June 28, 2026
Guests: Jefferson Traunch (Host), Kelly Waddle Prime (CIA Chief Redactor)

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Episode Overview

This unusually absurd and whimsical episode of the Duncan Trussell Family Hour (guest-hosted by Jefferson Traunch for the “Leather Rose” segment) features Kelly Waddle Prime, the Chief Redactor for the CIA. Prime, recently a bestselling author, offers an exuberant, sideways glimpse behind the black bars of government secrecy and the poetic, existential philosophy of redacting not just documents—but life itself. The discussion meanders comically through CIA secrets, haiku poetry, the ontology of redaction, ancient sausage walls, magicians, hags, and the cosmic mysteries woven into everyday experiences.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to Redaction as a Philosophy

• Early Experiences: Kelly recalls early encounters with haiku poetry and its minimalism as foundational to his outlook on redaction (05:41).
  • “How cool is it that you can say so much with so little?” — Kelly Waddle Prime [06:46]
• CIA Recruitment: The CIA's unexpected penchant for recruiting poets as redactors, emphasizing the art beyond simple censorship (06:47).

2. Redaction in the Wild: Life and Language

• Book Title as Art: The cover of Prime’s book is so heavily redacted it's ambiguous what the title really is—a commentary on information, meaning, and ambiguity (07:21).
  • “You have to think about where [the word ‘the’] is located in the frame… it could be the beginning of ‘theater’…” — Kelly Waddle Prime [07:35]
• Making Words New: Discussion on ‘cut-up’ poetry and the artistic transformation of texts (07:51).

3. Prosciutto, Spags, and The Dangers of Indulgence

• Surreal Anecdotes: In a long comic riff, the guests joke about German “spag” dogs attracted by prosciutto and the hazards of eating specialty meats—leading to absurd musings about skin walls and “spag fits” (08:28–12:50).

4. Waddle Prime Family Origins

• One-footed Lineage: Both guest and his son have only one foot, revealing a fictional, generational “foot circumcision” tradition and likening it to ancient Italian practices (17:27–19:15).
  • “That is what the name actually… As far back as we can trace, seven generations…” — Kelly Waddle Prime [17:43]

5. Sausage Walls, Salt, and Ancient Mysteries

• Food as Metaphor: Long riffs on secret tasting rooms, Lot’s wife and pillars of salt, using these as analogies for the hidden and the partially revealed (20:14–24:46).
  • Lot’s wife “was crystallized from a sausage sampler.” — Kelly Waddle Prime [21:14]
• Cosmic Fruit Punch: Fruit punch, saturated with salt, is celebrated and compared to the greats (Yo-Yo Ma, Celine Dion, etc.) — leading to comic literary analysis (24:26–26:30).

6. The Weight of Secrets: Anxiety and Perspective

• Psychic Toll of Redaction: Kelly sidesteps direct answers on national secrets, stressing the power of redaction as both protection and estrangement from truth (27:03–30:15).
  • “I can’t say it. But I can say that if I said it, then I would have said it.” — Kelly Waddle Prime on the percentage of the universe that's redacted [37:35]

7. The Cosmic Scale of Redaction

• God as The Ultimate Redactor: Entertaining the idea that “dark matter” and cosmic voids could be metaphorical redaction by the universe (36:13–37:55).
  • “99.9% of the universe has been redacted.” — Jefferson Traunch (with Kelly’s complicity) [37:49]
• Mirrors & Magic: Debate over whether magicians use mirrors, leading to philosophical musings on illusion, perception, and the unknown (39:03–46:31).

8. CIA Redaction Technology and Science Fiction

• Black Velvet as Redactor: Revealed that black velvet is used for redacting documents—because of its unique ability to “exhaust” and trap photons (46:31–49:19).
  • “Black velvet eats light, but it doesn’t just eat it. It confuses it into non-existence.” — Jefferson Traunch [49:19]
• Theoretical Dangers: Spencer Tracy’s (comic) concern about the CIA’s velvet “sucking all the light from the universe,” which Kelly humorously refutes (50:10).

9. Particle Accelerators and Wagyu Beef

• CIA-Exclusive Science Facilities: Stories of CIA-only particle accelerators, where beef is both flash-frozen and flash-cooked—a running illustration of the intersection of science, secrecy, and luxury (54:16–56:59).

10. The Legend of Hags, Batons, and Redaction Reflexes

• Batons and Gutter Hags: Jefferson shares an over-the-top story of hags in the woods, which segues into baton twirling as an extension of ancient weapons. Kelly, in true redactor fashion, refuses to identify a “hag” in a picture, insisting it’s a chicken quesadilla (57:38–62:03).
  • “That’s a chicken quesadilla right there.” — Kelly Waddle Prime [61:51]

11. Final Reflections & Invitation

• Life Advice: Kelly’s closing message is simple and poetic: savor the flavor. Each flavor experienced is a moment unredacted by the universe.
  • “Savor the flavor… that is quite literally an unredacted thing from the universe or God.” — Kelly Waddle Prime [65:21]
• Symposium Invitation: Jefferson receives a special invite to a secretive Norwegian symposium—pending redacted details (64:17).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “So much you can say with so little”—Kelly Waddle Prime [06:46]
• “Every black is either a dark blue, a dark purple, a dark green.” — Kelly Waddle Prime [47:06]
• “99.9% of the universe has been redacted.” — Jefferson Traunch [37:49]
• “Leaves are the original redactors.” — Kelly Waddle Prime [36:11]
• “Savor the flavor. When you have any kind of a flavor at all, understand that that is quite literally an unredacted thing from the universe or God.” — Kelly Waddle Prime [65:21]
• “That’s a chicken quesadilla right there.” — Kelly Waddle Prime [61:51]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [04:57-07:09] — Redaction as Art, CIA Poetic Recruitment
• [08:28-12:50] — Prosciutto, “Spag” Dogs, and “Buck Wild Spag Fever”
• [17:27-19:15] — Waddle Prime family origins, “foot circumcision”
• [20:14-24:46] — Salt, Lot’s Wife, and Cosmic Fruit Punch
• [27:03-30:15] — The Pressure & Philosophy of Knowing/Redacting Secrets
• [36:13-37:55] — Dark Matter and God as Cosmic Redactor
• [39:03-46:31] — Debate: Magicians, Mirrors, Illusion
• [46:31-49:19] — Black Velvet as Redaction Technology
• [54:16-56:59] — CIA-exclusive particle accelerator and Wagyu Beef
• [57:38-62:03] — Encounter with Gutter Hags, Baton Legends, and a Redacted Quesadilla
• [65:21] — Kelly’s Closing Message: “Savor the flavor”

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Tone and Style

Satirical, surreal, and jammed with offbeat literary and philosophical references, the episode blends improv humor with faux-confessions and playful conspiracy, all undergirded by both guests’ performative earnestness and love for digression.

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Takeaway

This episode is less an exposé on governmental secrecy and more a freewheeling, metafictional meditation on what remains hidden, what we savor in life, and why some mysteries—culinary, cosmic, or otherwise—are best enjoyed as flavor rather than as cold, unredacted fact.

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Transcript

[Jefferson Traunch]

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[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Don't use if allergic to Skyrizi. Serious allergic reactions, increased infections or lower ability to fight them may occur before treatment. Get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor about any flu like symptoms or vaccines.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Now there's nothing on my skin thanks to Skyrizi and that means everything. Ask your doctor about Skyrizi, the number one dermatologist prescribed biologic in psoriasis. Visit skyrizi.com or call 1-866-Skyrizi to learn. Welcome to the Leather Rose. This is Jefferson Traunch stepping in for Davis Grimley, who was wilding out and got attacked by bees in Miami. He's doing fine recovering as the human body does this incredible organism that we all get to inhabit temporarily on the strange journey of life. And part of that strange journey for me is getting to host my favorite podcast, the Leather Rose. We've got a great guest for you today, somebody no doubt you know of, even if you don't know his name. Kelly Waddle prime is the chief redactor for the CIA. This is the man who tirelessly, for decades has been in charge of laying down those black rectangles over the great secrets that the United States government cannot reveal. Is it to protect us or is it something more sinister? He's just released a book which is now the number one New York Times bestseller the by Kelly Waddle Prime. And it's hard to say what this book is about from the COVID It looks like most of the COVID has been redacted. So Kelly, what did you redact on the COVID of your book?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Hi, it's great to be here for one. I'm so happy to be on the program. I've been listening to Leather Rose for a long time and I'm sad to hear about Davis, but I know that he, he's got quite a bit of constitution. So he does happy to be here.

[Jefferson Traunch]

His love of honey brought him down.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Yeah, I, I actually love honey too. I discovered honey when I was in Egypt doing on my Sabbatical and I fell down a. I actually accidentally discovered a tomb by falling into a well. Let's be honest. It was a toilet, but I, I.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Are you sure you didn't. In just somebody's well?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Well, I redacted that, but now I'm, now it's been allowed to unredact it because it's been five years.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Great.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

And I did. I was shitting in someone's well. I thought it was a toilet, but it was, it was a well.

[Jefferson Traunch]

That's one of the problems. I'm sorry to cut you off, but in Egypt, that's, you know, and who am I to give advice to any other country? But why, why make your wells look exactly like toilets? It's. If you've ever been to Egypt and you look out and you're about to tinkle and someone's like, not in my well. And you're like, well, it's inside. There's a restroom sign above it. I don't understand why they do that.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Yeah, I think it's a translation issue. Have you been to Egypt, Jefferson?

[Jefferson Traunch]

Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I'm a lover. I'm an Egyptophile and I love going out to Egypt and just wandering the dunes.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

I'm actually hosting a Viking cruise, a three week long Viking cruise up the Nile and that's paired up with PBS and with Bremer cracker wafers. And we're doing a cheese tasting and a honey tasting on the Nile river on Viking cruises, which typically is a European excursion. So we're very excited. I'll be hosting that and I'll be teaching people how to redact their lives.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Oh, no. You know, this brings us, I think, into one of the many interesting things about your philosophy of redaction. You know, a lot of us, we get frustrated, especially people like me who are interested in the mysteries of the world and that which they don't want us to have access to. You follow the Freedom of Information act and you'll never forget the first time that manila envelope arrives at your door. They send it to you and then you open it up and it's all black ink. You don't know what's under it and it's frustrating. But for you, it's an art. The art of redaction. Talk about that.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Well, I first learned about redacting when I was taking a four month long haiku class in Hokkaido in Japan. I fell in love with haikus as a young boy growing up in the Tidal region of South Carolina. And of course, I just love Haiku because my great grandpappy said the ocean speaks in haiku. It goes like doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. Like what is that? He said that's a haiku. How about you? And he actually didn't know about haiku at all. He was making up, making a joke because he'd never left, never left the city. He wasn't allowed to actually.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Why was that?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Well, I can't speak on it, but had to do with some criminal enterprises he was involved in.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Right.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

So he was not allowed to leave. So he had, he made up the world around, around him by guessing and reading through books and just surmising ideas. And that got me into haiku. And I thought like how, how cool is it that you can say so much with so little?

[Jefferson Traunch]

So much.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

And so essentially that's where the CIA gets their redactors is through poems, international poetry symposiums.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Now that's something I didn't expect to hear. Today the Central Intelligence Agency recruits poets to redact. Talk about that.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Well, if you ever read any EE Cummings, you'd understand that syntax is part of the language where you can put. Let's say I have the word the like the title of my book. I hate the shameless plug.

[Jefferson Traunch]

But it seems like the title is bigger. It seems like there's more to the title. Just you've redacted every other word on the COVID Any clues about what the title of the book could be?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Well, that is the title of the book. You have to think about where it's located in the frame. Is it at the top? Is it at the middle? Is it at the ending? It could be. It could the is the beginning of the word theater. But you don't know if it's going to go on to say theater. It's going to just say the right. There's all kinds of words that start with a word that's not a word, that's that word. And if you flip out and scrap it and dump it upside down and maybe black out part of it, you can make a new word. And that's how all the great poets since, since Jim Washburg, Carla Monet, Testifade of the northern Spanish region. Her work is. I'm a big fan of her work because she would just, she would do called cut em up. She would take, she'd take the biggest book she could find and she'd say how can I make this into a story that's different?

[Jefferson Traunch]

You just cut it up. Just cut it up. Well, I mean let's look at Some words like that. All right, you know, for example, spag, you know, which is. It's a derogatory. It's a. You know, it's a slum.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Yeah.

[Jefferson Traunch]

German shit dog is a spag. And that could refer to any dog.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

I'm surprised you're even allowed to say that.

[Jefferson Traunch]

I got bitten by. You can say spag. You were bitten by a spag in Germany? I was bitten by a spag on the ankle. And, you know, like, it got infected and I had to keep my foot in hydroponic solution. But I did catch that spag, and I dropped him into a jar of chloroform, and I have him in my bathroom to this day just to remind

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

you not to ever do that again.

[Jefferson Traunch]

And as a form of protection, you know, so that if a spag comes into my house, he's going to see that there's a spag in a jar and probably not want to stay around.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

I was. I was always told that you only get bitten by a spag if you've eaten too much prosciutto. And once you've had a ton of prosciutto, they can smell it because it's coming out your pores.

[Jefferson Traunch]

This is true.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

They're like. It's a warning. Don't eat so much prosciutto. Do not.

[Jefferson Traunch]

This is a price you pay for a love of good prosciutto. And that's why I went to Parma ham. Yeah, Parma ham.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Prosciutto. I love prosciutto. That's why I get it shipped here. Because I don't want to get spag bitten.

[Jefferson Traunch]

No. You know, it's safer to eat prosciutto in the United States. And that's not some nationalist thing. That's just the facts.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

But it's true. It's not.

[Jefferson Traunch]

You're not going to get that fresh prosciutto. You're not going to get that in Germany. When you watch them with their razor blades slicing that thin prosciutto down translucent. There's actual homes in Germany. The walls are prosciutto, made of prosciutto, and it is just a delight. And you go into those homes and you just have to use every ounce of your willpower to not pluck a little pursuit off the wall and have a taste.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

And those wanna suck it down. You know what I wanna do? I wanna go in there. There's a saying I used to say is greedily take sep. I want to just greedily take sup of that wall, that salty wall.

[Jefferson Traunch]

That's why you're a rat. Skin like greedily takes up.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

I love a skin wall. Greedy. I want to, I wish to greedily takes up on your salty wall. Guten Tag.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Guten Tag. And you can find the best prosciutto cafes in Germany just by listening for the howling of those spags. Cause they surround them. There's sometimes 10, 20 spags hiding under a dumpster, hiding behind waiting for people to walk out with a belly of fresh prosciutto and that aroma of hormones, pleasure hormones, gunky stank.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Because it does stink.

[Jefferson Traunch]

They'll bite you and spat you.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

My wife is not letting me keep prosciutto in the home. I have a special man cave in my garage that's meant just for my prosciutto.

[Jefferson Traunch]

My prosciutto man cave.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

And even then, and even then she's like, she's like Kelly, do not open the door on the front of your man cave because it'll wash into the home. And we'll have these kids because kids are sensitive to that smell. And they'll get spaggy. They'll get have a spag fit. My son, who he is, he only has one foot but he does great because the technology. My one footed son, Beaumont, he has a lot of friends. He's very popular at his school. He has some kids over and these kids just went. Because he's accustomed to the smell of prosciutto. I give him taste once a month on a new moon. But these kids he had over from the school, they were just going buck wild spag fever. And they didn't know what was happening.

[Jefferson Traunch]

It's too hard that first waft. I remember me as a child when I got wafted down. But your child now this I didn't know about. Buck Beaumont Waddle Prime. I imagine it's in your book. It seems like you may have redacted it, but it is a wonderful thing to hear that a child with a challenge of having a mono foot is beloved in his.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Foreign.

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[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Absolutely. I have one foot as well. That's our name. We are Waddle Prime. That is what the name actually.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Waddle Prime. I get. And this is your fan. This is a familial generational one footedness.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Yeah. As far as I know, seven. Seven generations back. And that's as far back as we can trace, actually.

[Jefferson Traunch]

What do you think's the eight? Now that's a little bit of redaction, but that's a kind of universal redaction, which is where do the waddle primes. What do you think happened that y' all only have one foot?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

I think probably it was some sort of a deficiency at some point. Maybe we just really don't know. I wish I could find out.

[Jefferson Traunch]

A vitamin deficiency, you mean? Or like a.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Well, I was told by my great grandpappy, he said that he took it off. His daddy took it off when he was born. Is like sort of like a type of a foot circumcision sort of thing.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Oh, a foot circumcision. I mean it makes me think of the castrati, you know, this is the eunuchs of old that were assigned to guard brothels. And you could trust them because they'd had their balls and nib dicks chopped down.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

They got nib ducks. They got no balls. Some of them have. Would have big members though, but they had no balls. And I think it's similar to that. And I love Italy, so I've always loved Italy. I grew up just loving Italy. We would. We went to Italy once. We've been to Italy in Las Vegas. I love the fresh pasta when it comes out of the. The pasta cutter. And they let you. They let you go up and cut it if you want.

[Jefferson Traunch]

I didn't know that.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

I said put it in my mouth. Just don't even cook it. Just. They let you. If you give them 20 bucks, they'll let you stand up. They'll put a black cloth around everything so you can't be seen. You can put your lips right up to that roller and they'll put that fresh lasagna into your mouth like a. It's like eating a tongue.

[Jefferson Traunch]

You're talking about the sausage walls of Italy.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Yep. This is the sausage walls of Italy. Yeah.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Now the sausage walls of Italy. You know, I wish that I had the access and the status to even be invited in to one of these rooms, as they call them. It's true though. It's Just like a sampler tray, except it's sausages coming out the walls.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Chamberisco, that's what I've always known as chamberisco.

[Jefferson Traunch]

And you can just, you can just, you know, taste each of these sausages and other lovers of sausage are in there with you.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

All sorts straight from the pipe.

[Jefferson Traunch]

What's it like?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

It's just wonderful. It's one of those things where I will, I will do a sodium fast for a month in advance so I can handle that much sodium. Otherwise it will kill you. It will turn you into a crystal like Lot's wife in the Bible, which we obviously have to reference because that's the original text of life, is the Bible. Lot's wife turned a pillar of salt. And that's because they were, they had just initially invented these type of these mate walls.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Now that's interesting. That's interesting because the common understanding of that story, the story I was told as a child, is that Lot's wife turned. God told her, you better not look back. And she turned around and looked as a lady will, and she got turned into a pillar. So you're saying she was crystallized from a sausage sampler? She was.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Well, she was. She did look back. She did look back. But you know what she was looking back for? She's just remembered that chamber Risco that she just came from. And salt, when salts in a fine crystalline powder, it can function as a wave, an invisible wave, and it will inoculate you in the face and it's the straw that broke the camel's back, but it's the salt of grain, of salt that filled up the coffer of your salt hole. Wow. Yeah.

[Jefferson Traunch]

You gotta wonder though, you think they went back to Gomorrah to gather up salt when they needed it? You know, knowing that there was like a city with all that salt? Or do you think they avoided that salt? And I guess there's another question to add to that question. Can you talk about what the salt of Gomorrah might have tasted like?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

I, I have done a little research on this. One of my associates, Garrison, Garrison Fumble, he actually is an expert. He put out a book called Salty Salt. And that's a great, great place to start if you want to talk about ancient salt sea beds and his work, Garrison's work, it just talks all about this. But the thing is, from this is, from what I've gathered from his research is the taste of it. Sort of like a modern day fruit punch. Have you had fruit punch lately?

[Jefferson Traunch]

You know, I can't Believe you're bringing this up. I woke up this morning. I've been suffering from insomnia. First time I've gotten a good four hours of sleep in years. And I woke up and my wife is at my bedside with a bowl of fresh fruit punch. It's like she.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Fresh fruit punch.

[Jefferson Traunch]

And she just ladled it right into my mouth there in the bed. Just knowing.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Oh, God, just thinking about it, it gets me ready to go.

[Jefferson Traunch]

It wakes you up.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Cause it's the mixture. You got cherry, pineapple, orange, lemon, lime. Probably persimmon. Probably persimmon. There's some sort of a red fruit that's good in there. Strawberry. Strawberry, I think, is the key to fruit punch. Watermelon and.

[Jefferson Traunch]

And filter and, you know, I mean, the missing ingredient that I. I'll go to a punch party and I. I'm happy to be invited anywhere these days. So I'm not judging. But you go to a punch party, and if they haven't salted the punch, they don't eat the punch. It's that salt. Add that salt.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

It might as well be pond water that they dyed red if it didn't salt the punch.

[Jefferson Traunch]

That's what I'm thinking. That's what I'm thinking.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

It doesn't take much salt either. Just a little bit.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Just a little bit of salt in your fruit punch. And it is just the fountain of youth and it just wakes you up. It reminds you of God's grace in this earth, and it shows us that things are getting better.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

I just taste it right now on my lips. That sweet, tangy fruit punch where no flavor stands out. Every flavor is blended together in a harmonious, resonant frequency of pure red.

[Jefferson Traunch]

It's the Yo Yo Ma. It's the Yo Yo Ma of drinks.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

It is the Celine Dion of sippers. It is the. It is the Neil Degrasse Tyson of refreshment, Peyton of drinks. It is the Michael Jordan of taste. I would call it maybe even the.

[Jefferson Traunch]

The messy of picnics.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

The messy. That's a good one. Messy because he's a player and fruit punch can be messy. I mean, that's why they haven't stained a child's lips. If it doesn't stain their lips, you could accidentally give him too much. But you see that stain. Ooh, baby, you've been. You've been having the fruit punch. I know.

[Jefferson Traunch]

You know, I just. It brings to mind my favorite Cormac McCarthy passage in his book Abbreviated Blister. The child's lips crimsonated like an old beggar's shawl. Wipe through a strawberry field beneath a cracked and cursed cloudy sun.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Ooh, baby, that's a passage. All right. Mmm. That just tells the story.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Cause that's chilling and beautiful.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

You know, he's talking about fruit punch. He's talking about a mustache.

[Jefferson Traunch]

McCarthy always has a bowl of fruit punch, but his typewriter, when he arrives.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Yeah.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Look at his lips. Permanently stained.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

He could take a newborn baby and make it sound like the devil. Way he describes it. He can take the sweetest piece of rotisserie chicken you've ever had, and it's like you just ate a piece of burnt. Or burnt poopoo for that Missouri. I didn't mean to curse.

[Jefferson Traunch]

It's okay. We can. We can. We can redact.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Bleep it out. I appreciate if you bleep it out, because to me, is not really a curse. Unless you're saying, like, oh, you're a head.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Oh, yeah. That's actually an ancient curse. That's a real curse. A Babylonian curse, a Mesopotamian curse. It has its roots, of course, in the Indus Valley region. But never say that to a person.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

No, I would never say it to a person. In passing, maybe. In passing.

[Jefferson Traunch]

I feel like when you make a friend for life, which I think has happened between us, Kelly.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Absolutely, yes.

[Jefferson Traunch]

You get distracted and you don't get into the meat of the interview. And I want to do you the honor of giving you the interview you deserve. You have been working in the CIA. Redacting, redacting, redacting, which to me, tells me that you know every secret, because you're the one who wipes those lines black. Now, tell me, what do you know? What have you seen? And how do you deal with the anxiety of knowing every single national, international, global, and potentially cosmic secret that exists in the world?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Well, let me start off right now and tell you that travel. Travel is my. I got the bug. I got the bug. Can I travel? Once a month, I make an international trip, and it's. It's paid for by the CIA. The CIA pays for it because I know. And different people in the department, some of them have different type of thing they're into. Some are really into chocolate, some early into mountain biking. Yeah, some of them are super into gardening. Actually, there's one guy, but he. He kind of flunked out.

[Jefferson Traunch]

And this is redactors. Are you saying the entirety of the CIA?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Well, a lot of these redactors came as. They started as jostlers.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Well, now, what's that?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

I've never heard of a jostler A jostler is someone who shakes a person and says, tell them, like, you gotta stop. Cut it out.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Oh, yeah, okay. A jostler. I got you now. Who do they do that to? Like, is this like some form of pre assassination or. When. When what people are you jostling?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Well, usually it's a gymnast. Young gymnasts. And most people who were started as jostlers, they were former Soviet Eastern bloc countries, and they would. They would do this to their gymnasts. They would, you know, jostle them to.

[Jefferson Traunch]

I see.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Shake them out of their funk.

[Jefferson Traunch]

All right. Just to get them going.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Yeah, because they're very physical people. Obviously. Sometimes dancers get jostled by the. The dance teacher who's a jostler.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Oh, yeah.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

It's not talked about much.

[Jefferson Traunch]

It's kind of a Cirque du Soleil. Cirque du Soleil. Do any of them get jostled?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Oh, absolutely. Constantly. I would say they jostle each other sometimes on purpose. Sort of like. Sort of like dipping your face in water.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Okay. That splash, that just a cold splash. Wake you up.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Yeah. More convenient. Maybe it's better than a slap. A slap can sting and burn and leave a mark. Or jostle an adult. No. No one under five should ever be jostled.

[Jefferson Traunch]

No, not. Don't, Josh. Don't jostle a baby.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Yeah. Do not. If you're over 18, you should only jostle people who are also over 18. And if you're under 18, what about consent?

[Jefferson Traunch]

Or does the CIA just send people in to jostle without consent? I mean, it is, you know, understand. I mean, no one consents to getting assassinated. No one consents to being gangstalk.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

It's kind of a one way street where we get people who are jostled. They start as jostlers, and then once they join the CIA, they stop jostling.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Oh, oh, I see. So you're talking about in the wild. Like, this is jostlers in the wild. These are the people. Okay, now I know you're. I've been jostled in a cafe. Who hasn't? You know, someone comes up and just shakes, maybe for.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

For take. Picking up someone's order, and they like, what are you doing? Why did you take my order? Yeah, and you're like, oh, I'm sorry. And it really. It scares the goddamn bejesus out you of.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Oh, God, that's.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Jostled by a stranger.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Scares you to death. It gives you nightmares when you get a good jostling. And I do that sometimes. I'll go into a cafe and take people's orders. And it's not for any other reason if they seem understaffed. Well, I've never thought of that. But I guess that's something to bring up with my psychologist is maybe I'm doing it because I want the jostle.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

A lot of people subconsciously are doing that. They don't know it, but they are.

[Jefferson Traunch]

That's the kind of thing you would know in the CIA.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

I guess I only know it because of people who I work with. I'm not a jostler myself.

[Jefferson Traunch]

You're a redactor. You came from the haikyuu. Haikyuu? Haiku.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

The haiku poetry. Now, some of us have high iq.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Haikyuu. I have no doubt that you are a genius of extraordinary proportions. Just from this brief amount of time chatting with you, I can feel your intelligence oozing through my microphone into my mouth. It's like I'm sampling little bits of your intelligence and every single bite is savory, salty and sweet. Reminds me of fruit punch. Now, let's. I wanted to show you some documents that I wonder if you recognize them at all. Josh, can you pull up one of the redacted documents I sent over?

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[Jefferson Traunch]

Do you know what this is? Have you seen this? It's for the listeners out there. This is a redactor.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

This is actually a recipe for Coca Cola.

[Jefferson Traunch]

That's the recipe for Coca Cola and that made its way onto. And you can, just by looking at those bars, you, you know, that's your work. You can recognize this as you.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Yeah, it's similar to this old idea that the Aboriginal people of Australia would talk about. You don't necessarily see the thing. You see that the thing is evidence of the thing being there.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Right.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

And that is saying the thing. So it's sort of like working in a multi dimensional understanding of the universe as opposed to concrete. We in the west would say, I see a bird. Look, there's a bird.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Yeah, there's a bird over there.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

How the Dreamtime interpretation of that is if you see a leaf moving in a way that would suggest a bird is behind the leaf that's seeing a bird.

[Jefferson Traunch]

So it's. Even though you might not even see that little sparrow, you might not see that mockingbird, you see that leaf move. Makes you think of a bird. Bird is there. So in this case, the leaf is the redactor. I got you. So just by looking at the jostling of a leaf, which is the redactor of nature, if it was bigger than a bird, I guess you could say.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Exactly. Leaves are the original redactors.

[Jefferson Traunch]

And trees, I suppose, and anything that could conceal another thing. Now, do you. I don't want to get too far down the rabbit hole here, but are you of the school of thought that believes that God is the original redactor, that there's an intelligent redactor in the universe? That is in the sense you look up and you see those stars. And everybody thinks there's space around the stars, but in fact those are God's redaction lines covering up something else.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Absolutely. That's what dark matter is. I mean, we know now, we learned this, I think 20, 20 years ago or so, that dark matter is at least 51 of the universe. We know that it's a fact.

[Jefferson Traunch]

55.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Okay. It's 55 now. Well, if it goes up by 4, that. You know what that says? It goes about 4. There's probably more.

[Jefferson Traunch]

You mean it could be even higher than that? 55.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

It could be as high as 99.99.

[Jefferson Traunch]

99.9, you're saying. And this is coming from the CIA. 99.9 of the universe is essentially redacted.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Could be. Could be redacted. But also there's.

[Jefferson Traunch]

That's the kind of thing where you're saying it, but you're not saying it, though.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

I'm not. I can't say it. But I can say that if I said it, then I would have said it.

[Jefferson Traunch]

I see.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Does that make sense?

[Jefferson Traunch]

What if I say it?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

If you say it, then I can say that he said that.

[Jefferson Traunch]

So I'm saying it. 99.9% of the universe has been redacted.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

And I can say you said that. I can say it in a way. I could say like. I could say, like this, you said that. Or I could say you said that. Or I could say you said that. All three of those mean something different.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Now. Which way would you say that I said that?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

I would say you said it like this, you said that.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Oh, wow.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

And that. Does that tell you what you said? Oh, wow, how you said it? Because the way I said how you said that you said it should say how what was said.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Goosebumps.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Was said in a truthful way or if it was said in a dark matter way. But you also have to think about perspective, too. If you are the dark matter looking at the non dark matter, what is the not? Is the non dark matter dark to the dark matter, or is it latched.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Wait, are you saying that what we think of as dark matter, that we're the dark matter, that we're the living redaction, that we're.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

There's no way to know. It's like this, you know. You ever had your haircut? You know when the barber shows you your back of your hair with the mirror and you're like, okay, I'm seeing it, but you're seeing it in a mirror.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Yeah.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

And we all know that a mirror isn't a truth, it's a reflection of it.

[Jefferson Traunch]

It's a reversal even.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

You're saying the reversal magicians use mirrors all the time. Magicians.

[Jefferson Traunch]

That's not true. I'm sorry to push back on that one, but I don't think that's true

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

that magicians use mirrors.

[Jefferson Traunch]

I don't think they do. I think I've been to many magic Shows. It's one of the. I love magic and I love.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

I like it too, because of the mirrors. I like it.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Well, I've been to many magic shows and I. I haven't seen a single mirror. And I look. Cause, you know, I know there's tricks, it's magic, but I have not seen a single mirror. And I've been to over 300 magic shows. To be precise, 346. I'm going to one tonight. 347. Never seen a mirror, and I don't think they use mirrors.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Okay, well, I feel like that you can think that. I'm happy for you to think that they don't use mirrors.

[Jefferson Traunch]

I do think that, and I know it. That they. After a show, and I'm very much.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

You talk to magicians after shows?

[Jefferson Traunch]

Only once. I just get so nervous around a magician. I have so much respect for the craft. And I went up to a magician, the great Lindsay, and I was so nervous. He saw it, you know, he's a good man.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Oh, they can smell it from a mile away.

[Jefferson Traunch]

He could smell it. And I went up to him, I said, I don't want a fanboy out. I have no idea how you made that rabbit come out of your pants leg. There was no rabbit and I'm allergic to rabbit. And so if there was a rabbit in the room, I would have covered in boils. I would have been immediately covered in boils.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

You would have been nasty.

[Jefferson Traunch]

I would have been a nasty, festering mess. And so what did he. I just. I said, what did you. Is it mirrors? Slapped me across the face.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

He did.

[Jefferson Traunch]

He said, a magician never tells his trick, you piece of shit. And I deserved it because a magician never tells his tricks, you piece of shit. But one thing I will tell you is none of us use mirrors. Now get the fuck away from me. And it was well deserved. Well deserved.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

I've heard the great Lindsay's really nice, so I'm surprised he would do that.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Well, I think it's very offensive what you're saying, and I just, you know, I just. I gotta look out for the magician community who are probably listening to this by now. They're not. You know, I imagine many magicians have just turned off their watch at this moment, but.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Yeah, that's too bad for them. I'm sorry.

[Jefferson Traunch]

They don't use mirrors.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Yeah. Okay.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Well, how would you do that? How would that even work?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Maybe you have a mirror with a black velvet wrapped around it and it appears to be a pathway, when actually it's a mirror. Perhaps, you know, just.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Why not just have a pathway?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Because the pathway would reveal that there's a woman back there who was killed. The woman, I mean, who was in a box. Who was in a box or on a swing or on like a, A, a. A metal ring. It's a swing.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Oh, one of the. Yeah, a swing ring.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

A swing ring. It could be a cancer.

[Jefferson Traunch]

The women disappear. I see it happen.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

They go somewhere. They're going somewhere.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Well, it's magic, right?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

But the magic is, you know, the magic is the. Is the. The trick. The building of the trick, the making the trick, the doing the. Constructing the box, maybe out of mirrors.

[Jefferson Traunch]

That's like saying the house is putting up the drywall. The house is the house.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

What do you mean by that?

[Jefferson Traunch]

I mean, you're saying the trick is setting up the trick. I'm saying it's when the lady disappears. And every time I just gasp.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Right.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

But you know the lady didn't die, right?

[Jefferson Traunch]

I don't know that.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

You don't know it, but you have to assume that the magician isn't just killing a woman all the time.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Well, he brought her back, right?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Oh, yeah. Well, sometimes they don't bring her back.

[Jefferson Traunch]

I've never been to that kind of show. That sounds like something you might find. I don't even know if I'll call that a magic show. That sounds like human sacrifice.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Well, some magicians now are daring to do a thing that's different. Like Kelvin Dietrich. I saw him in Reno just a few weeks ago.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Great magician.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

He disappeared 13, 14 women, and they never came back.

[Jefferson Traunch]

But that doesn't mean they're dead.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

No.

[Jefferson Traunch]

You're saying something disappears, it's dead. That doesn't mean that.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Well, then what do you think is happening?

[Jefferson Traunch]

I don't know. If I knew, it wouldn't be magic.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Right?

[Jefferson Traunch]

But it means, I don't know, the women go, they go, the women go, they disappear, and they. And they come back. Sometimes. Sometimes they don't. They're gone. But to immediately assume that the magician is exterminating volunteers from the audience, to me, seems a little grim.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

It is a little grim, I think. But if you don't acknowledge the fact that mirrors exist, you have to think that maybe that's what's happening.

[Jefferson Traunch]

I don't need.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Don't you think?

[Jefferson Traunch]

Okay, now I don't. Does a mirror make the sun disappear when it becomes night? Do you think there's some kind of mirror in space that's making the sun disappear?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

No, because that would have to be the biggest mirror Ever. And that'll be super hard to make a mirror that.

[Jefferson Traunch]

So there. You just defeated your own. Whatever you're saying, if there's no mirror that makes the sun disappear, then when magicians make women disappear, there is also no mirror. That's just.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

But there could be a black velvet that's on the edges of it.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Why do you need velvet?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Because black velvet, it looks really good for magic.

[Jefferson Traunch]

I can't argue with that.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Last look. I can't argue with that. Black velvet. Black velvet. Oh, I love that Southern style.

[Jefferson Traunch]

I love that song.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Black velvet. And that's warm Southern child.

[Jefferson Traunch]

It's black velvet.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

No.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Warm Southern child.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Black velvet, if you please. And that's. That's, you know, International Magic hall of Fame. That's their theme song.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Now this. I know where you're going with this, and I appreciate it.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Black velvet redacts.

[Jefferson Traunch]

I used to think that y' all were up there with duct tape, black duct tape, taping it over the sentences that we aren't supposed to see. And when I found out that y' all have just spools of black velvet in the redactin rooms and that it's black velvet that you're using to cover up the print, I just found that to be fascinating. Talk about that.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Well, we. You just basically talked about it. Is that we use black velvet to do the redacting.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Talk about that.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Well, so velvet, the way it is, it's like a. Like a rabbit skin. Right. It's soft. It has, like, hairs on it.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Yeah.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

And those. Each one of those hairs can grab as much light as 100 pieces of paper. 100 pieces of black paper with ink. That's federal ink from money. The kind of ink they use on money. This black ink.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Yeah.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Well, there's no. There's no true black. I'm not sure if you knew this,

[Jefferson Traunch]

but I had no idea.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Every black is either. Like a dark blue, a dark purple, a dark green.

[Jefferson Traunch]

I didn't know that. There's no. But what I'm looking right now at the screen of my computer, it's just black. And you're telling me that's not black? That's green.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

The absence of light is black. But if you have something that you're adding to something, it's color.

[Jefferson Traunch]

I see.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

It's just a super dense color.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Tell me about when a photon. QUOTE Cormac McCarthy. The photon erupted from the broiling sun like a sad teardrop rolling down the face of a witch burning in the primordial fires of a dark huntress mask.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

That's beautiful. Actually,

[Jefferson Traunch]

when a photon makes its way from the womb of the sun and it lands on black velvet.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Yeah.

[Jefferson Traunch]

What happens to that photon?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Talk about that photon gets confused. It gets super confused because it's being absorbed and it's being like. It's like a bunch of people grabbing one guy going, hey, if you were watching a concert and there was a hundred bouncers on the lip of the stage, and instead of the bouncers pushing you back, they grabbed you and they threw you to another bouncer and threw you to another one, you just got thrown around like a mosh pit.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Tossed around.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

That's what the velvet does to light

[Jefferson Traunch]

photons like a soccer ball.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

And the photon gets tired and it just goes away.

[Jefferson Traunch]

It just goes away. Where does it go?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

It loses its speed and it falls into nothing. Falls into. Becomes dark matter.

[Jefferson Traunch]

It slows down the black velvet. It tosses that little photon around hither

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

and thither, back and forth, because light is just energy. And once energy is dissipated, it just poof, poof, poof. Like a magic trick.

[Jefferson Traunch]

So black velvet eats light, but it doesn't just eat it. It confuses it into non existence is what you're saying.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

It exhausts it.

[Jefferson Traunch]

It wears it out.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Excuse me. Wow. It was like a photon torpedo right there.

[Jefferson Traunch]

That was right there. It was like a photon coming out of the. Coming back out. Did they ever come out of. Is it. No. You know, I'm sure you're aware of Spencer Tracy's work. And, you know, I don't mean to bring up a sore subject. Spencer Tracy claims that the black velvet the CIA has been using to redact these files that we all want to look at is sucking out all the light from the universe itself. And that eventually, because of what you've been doing, there will be no more light. The sun will be drained.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

There is a theory about that, but that is. The math is wrong. The math is just plain wrong. If that were to happen, we'd have to have the amount of velvet we'd have to have on hand. Would encircle it could go to Pluto and back 175 billion times.

[Jefferson Traunch]

That's a lot of. That's a lot of black velvet.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

That's a lot of black velvet.

[Jefferson Traunch]

But Spencer Tracy says that even if that's true, and I saw him on OPRAH With Neil DeGrasse Tyson talking about

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Spencer Pratt or Spencer Tracy.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Spencer Tracy, the.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Oh, yeah. I love that.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Well, Spencer Tracy's claim is that the redaction velvet, there is a possibility of a blowback that like all those photons could theoretically wake back up and they just want out. And then that could create an explosion. And this is one of the dangers, I imagine, of working around all that velvet. Have you ever heard of this? Or seen what they call a micro blowback where light shoots back out of the velvet.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Foreign.

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[Kelly Waddle Prime]

I have talk about that experienced it once I took a trip to the not the Hadron Collider but a similar one that's for CIA only it's a lot smaller but it's really good. It's real nice. They have a great snack bar there too.

[Jefferson Traunch]

What do they serve there? That snack bar that's.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

I can talk about this, but. Not supposed to, but you can. Okay. They have all these snacks they make, as in using the. The ice that's generated. The coldness is generated from the. From the acceleration because it's the thing that happens where it's not heated. They have heat and they have extreme cold. So what they do, they have these little steak nuggets and it's. It's a five wagyu beef.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Wagyu beef.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Wagyu.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Wagyu beef. A five.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

A five white wagyu.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Wagyu. I mean, a five wagyu.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

A rose behind their name is just as sweet, you know what I mean? They have this and what they do is they flash freeze it and they flash burn it.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Oh, my God. And they do that in the particle accelerator.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

They do it on the little side box, the particle accelerator, that's attached to the catalog.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Like a side lane.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Like a side lane, yeah.

[Jefferson Traunch]

So are they launching the wagyu into the particle accelerator? Is it, Is the meat launched?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

The meat's getting launched by the puffer blow of the heat and the cold.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Okay.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

So it's in a bounce box and it gets blasted around there, the little nuggets playing all around.

[Jefferson Traunch]

And this freezes the meat as many as you want.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

This freezes it and then it heats it.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Like friction of the bouncing?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

No, it's. It's the heat from the. I mean, that might be some friction in there. I don't. I don't really know because I might become a superconductor at that point. The meat becomes a superconductor. So just because it's so cold that it's going to be like, you know what happens.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Sorry to cut you off, but I must ask, I'm sure the listeners by all are wondering this right now. What happens when you launch two cubes of A5 Wagyu at, you know, light speed or close to light speed at each other?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Well, it's the best steak sandwich I've ever had. It's been that much.

[Jefferson Traunch]

I can't even imagine how tender.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

They don't even put butter on it. They just put a little horseradish on there.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Oh, my God. And that's what you eat there?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Yeah. You have to bring your own bread. But there's a bread store, a delicious bread store right above there. And you know, they cater to the scientists and the people who are visiting. It's delicious. Like a baguette. Like a German baguette. I don't know.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Talk about what it is.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Exactly.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Talk about a German baguette.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

It's super fresh. You can only have it before noon. Once the clock strikes 12:01 it gets hard as a baton.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Talk about a baton.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Baton is like a. A stick.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Talk about that.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

A stick is something that comes from a tree that's hard and you can use it much like that first weapon that we think probably was the first weapon called a shale. It's an Irish stick. It's still used today by certain hags in the. In the hills.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Yeah.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Have many kids and gutter hags up there. Mm. They'll have a shillelagh. It's a stick. It's the main trunk of the tree used as the blunt head and it has the offshoot branch that's at a 45 degree angle and you've got that. You hold on to that and you club someone with the main stick.

[Jefferson Traunch]

You know, I.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

First weapon ever.

[Jefferson Traunch]

I remember my first encounter with one of those gutter hags and their batons, their foul batons. I was just lost as you could be out in the woods and I came upon a cliff face and I just had to get out. I was panicking and so I just started climbing. It didn't both. I mean, it didn't seem. First. I had to go down into a crevice that cut through down. It was not a gully. It wasn't. I argue with my wife about this all the time. She claims it was a gult. It was more of a rolling dip that washed up a crevasse. I wouldn't go that far.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

A depression.

[Jefferson Traunch]

It was a sort of depressed gult, something like a sink. And I went in, yeah, more of like a thickened hauler. And I went down into that and I remember how cold the mud was down there and I just was panicked. You know how that is when you get panicked when you're hiking. And I just. I just thought I could make it up the cliff face. There were jutting stones and such and I just. I'm climbing and I remember I was pulling myself up on a ledge and it. I just felt. It felt like a firecracker went off on my butt and it hurt so bad. And I looked and there is one of those hags and she is whomping me and just, you know, you can't. I don't know what. Even if anyone knows the language they speak, it's like. Like guttural gibberish and all I knew she wanted me off that ledge.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Sounds like a paper shredder.

[Jefferson Traunch]

And they're like mountain goats. I looked up, and it was just so many of these cliff hags, they're just on this. Their feet are massive. Maybe that's part of why they can stand up.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Well, they're hunting for sugar in the cracks.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Looking for sugar. I guess I just. It was like. So sticking your hand in a hornet's nest. These hags were hissing at me, throwing their shillelies down, throwing their batons. And this made me wonder, is this how the baton became the performance device that it is? Because, you know, you see these?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

I think so.

[Jefferson Traunch]

When I see someone twirling a baton, it's different for me now because I know how deadly they are. But you think that's why they twirl batons? Talk about that.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

I think so. Because if you look at a baton, if you.

[Jefferson Traunch]

If.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

If you put spikes on a baton, you would have a weapon that is just unstoppable. There's. There's stories of an offshoot of the hags called sporners.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Sporners.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Sporners. It's. And these spawners would have these. But these. These batons with spikes on them, and they could. One spawner could take on a village of a thousand Normans.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Dear God.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

They would just spike them up.

[Jefferson Traunch]

This is a hag offshoot. Or is this also a hag? The sporner is, like, in the hag category. Or is this.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

It's an offshoot, but they. They got. They got offshoot so long ago, that became a totally different thing.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Josh, pull up a. Sorry. Pull up a picture of a hag.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Yeah, I'm surprised you can find any picture of them, honestly. They should have been redacted.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Just see if you can find a picture of a haggard. We use a. Oh, dear God. There you go. Pull it up. Pull it up. Can you enlarge it with a hag? Enlarge a picture of a hag, Josh. Zoom in.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

That's not real.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Well, that's not a hag. Go back, Josh. I just need to see.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

That's a witch right here. That's a witch.

[Jefferson Traunch]

No, that's a hag. Now, which of these is a hag and which is a witch?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Well, I can't really say that. I'm not allowed to do that.

[Jefferson Traunch]

What about that, would you. That's. Can you make that bigger? That old hag?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

That's a chicken quesadilla right there.

[Jefferson Traunch]

That's a hag.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

That's a chicken quesadilla.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Look at that. That's a hag.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

I'm looking at a chicken quesadilla. Talk about that.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Talk about that.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Okay, I'm seeing colors of yellow from the Monterey Jack.

[Jefferson Traunch]

So you can't even. I get it. I get it. I didn't mean to put you in this position. So this is what happens when a redactor sees something that is yet to be redacted. But should you call it a chicken quesadilla? Because everyone saw it. Everyone saw that egg.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Yeah, everyone saw a chicken quesadilla. Green onions. I'm not gonna push you on it.

[Jefferson Traunch]

I'm not gonna push you on it.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

The green chilies. I see the white meat breast chicken. And the delicious tortilla. It's flour tortilla, which, you know, it's not as good for you, but tastes better. Would you say that flour's better than corn?

[Jefferson Traunch]

Absolutely. Flour.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Flour's better than corn.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Don't offer me corn. If I wanted corn, I'd go to a corn field. I came to your taqueria because I want a flour tortilla.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Wouldn't you go to a flour field if you wanted a flour tortilla? You go to a wheat field. Get wheat.

[Jefferson Traunch]

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[Kelly Waddle Prime]

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[Jefferson Traunch]

Well, I never quite looked at it that way, but I guess that's why I'm where I'm at. You're where you're at. It was about time to wrap this interview up, but I.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

It was so wonderful being here.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Before I let you go, I do

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

feel like I have a lifelong friend here. You should come out. I'm going to Upper Norway next month and we're doing a symposium there. It's invite only. I'm Extending an invite to you and maybe three of your friends.

[Jefferson Traunch]

I'll be there with Josh, and I'll be there with a special person that I want you to meet, who I won't be.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

I would love that.

[Jefferson Traunch]

I'm gonna redact the name, but.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Okay. If you don't redact, I will. So it's okay.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Before I let you go, one thing that so many people love in a podcast like this, and certainly the leather roads that come here not just for the stories of mystery, the deep cuts that we give them here on the rose, but they come here for inspiration. What message do you have for the world right now, which is in such challenging, tumultuous times? What do you have to say to the women, the men and the children and the babies of the world and the elders?

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

My message. My message to the women and the men, the babies of the world would be to. It's a simple message, and it rhymes. And that is savor the flavor. When you have any kind of a flavor at all, understand that that is quite literally an unredacted thing from the universe or God. However you want to take it and source, just savor it. If you got a piece of cinnamon gum, I chew on it until it stops being cinnamon.

[Jefferson Traunch]

I can taste it right now.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

If you're biting into a dragon fruit that's been homegrown, savor it. And make sure you chew, because when you chew more, you have less gas, and that's less space in there. You feel more full. The food gets to power your cells better. Everything's better when you savor.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Savor the flavor.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

When you savor it.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Savor the flavor. Kelly Waddle Prime. You are more to me than a friend. You are something deeper than.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

I appreciate it, Jefferson.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Sorry if I got allergies right now, but you are more to me.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Allergies are bad right now.

[Jefferson Traunch]

Anyone I've ever met? Something deep, something. Something seismic. Makes me think of Cormac McCarthy. His description of a lamb. Trembling eyes as black as obsidian disks marked on the husk of an old derelict beneath the deep, thick, briny effluvia of an ancient spray boy's. Can you just. I know there's a lot to ask, but can you just go ahead, sing us out with a little black belt.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

All right, here we go. Neck velvet in that warm southern sp. A new religion that'll bring you to your knees. Black family,

[Jefferson Traunch]

Please. Thank you.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Thanks for having me. It was a great time.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

I love it.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

We'll see you in Norway.

[Jefferson Traunch]

We're gonna have see you in Norway, Kelly.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

Great smoked fish and hit the sauna.

[Jefferson Traunch]

See you in Norway.

[Kelly Waddle Prime]

See you in Norway.