Greetings listener friends!

This is a re-release of a conversation we had with writer, teacher and soul activist, Francis Weller in 2020. We are releasing some of our favorite conversations that are connected with the themes we will be exploring in our 13-month mentoring training, Refugia, which begins in February 2026. Francis will be one of the guest teachers, along with Rosemerry Wahtola Trommer, Alexandre Jodun and Alyona Kobevka.

We recorded this conversation just after Francis released the first version of In the Absence of the Ordinary was released as an e-book. The book was recently published in 2025, and is a beautiful collection of soulful and potent essays about the time in which we find ourselves. There is also an audio version with Francis reading that is lovely.

In this episode, recorded in May, 2020, we jump right into discussing our global circumstances as what Francis calls a Rough Initiation. We explore Francis's suggestions for responding to overwhelm: self-compassion, turning toward our feelings, being astonished by beauty, and having patience. We explore what Francis calls growing an apprenticeship with sorrow, and the possibility metabolizing our sorrows into something medicinal for soul and for community. Francis speaks to a powerful quote from human biologist Paul Shephard, that states: "The grief and sense of loss, that we often interpret as a failure in our personality, is actually a feeling of emptiness where a beautiful and strange otherness should have been encountered."

We explore this beautiful and strange otherness and so much more. We are sure you'll enjoy this beautiful conversation as much as we did. Many thanks to Francis for sharing his words and wisdom so generously.

For more information on Francis and his work, visit francisweller.net

For more information on our classes, grief rituals and Refugia program, visit embodimentmatters.com