← Extra Dirty with Hallie Batchelder
Extra Dirty with Hallie Batchelder
Willa Bennett: Dating in your 20s vs 30s
00:58:07
This week Hallie is joined by Editor in Chief of Cosmopolitan Magazine and Seventeen Magazine, the insanely impressive Willa Bennett! They get into it ALL: how Hallie and Willa met, Willa's blind date series, & how she personally navigates dating with her high profile career. Then Hallie gets all of Willa's hot takes on sex and dating topics: should a first date be coffee or drinks, when is it time to end a talking stage, the most wild pitch she's ever approved for Cosmopolitan, and if she's ever been cheated on! We love you Willa!!! Besos!
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- [00:01]
A
You know what? A girl's best friend is not diamonds. Her lawyers.
- [00:05]
B
From executive producer Ryan Murphy comes a.
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A
Fiery new legal drama. It's our own boutique. Women representing women you can't afford to miss. Make it ring. Showtime, ladies. Stand up straight and breeze into that room like a storm no one saw coming.
- [00:24]
B
Hulu Original Series All's fair now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers terms apply.
- [00:31]
A
Oh, hey. Welcome to gift wrapped. Whoa. So is Saldana. Hey, can you wrap these, please?
- [00:35]
B
Wow. IPhone 17s.
- [00:37]
A
You splurged at T Mobile. You can get four iPhone 17s on them. The new center stage front camera is.
- [00:42]
B
Amazing for group selfies. It's the perfect gift for everyone.
- [00:45]
A
I'm the worst.
- [00:46]
B
I only got my mom a robe. Well, it's better than socks.
- [00:49]
A
So I have to trade in my old phone, right? No. AT T Mobile. There's no trade ins needed when you switch. Keep your old phone or give it as a gift. Incredible. In fact, wrap up my old phone.
- [00:59]
B
Too for my aunt Rosa. Forget that. Aunt Liz will be jealous. Sounds like my family drama.
- [01:03]
A
Oh, I got it. I'll give it to my abuela. I'll take reindeer paper with. Hey, where are you going?
- [01:07]
B
To T Mobile.
- [01:09]
A
The holidays are better. AT T Mobile get four iPhone 17s on us. No trade in needed when you switch. Plus four lines for just 25 bucks a line. With 24 monthly bill credits and four eligible board inside essentials for well qualified customers bought on pay + taxes, fees and $35 device connection chart credit.
- [01:24]
B
Sending balance to you. Pay off earlier.
- [01:25]
A
Cancel contact U.S. finance agreement. 256 GB. $830 required. Visit T mobile.com how much stalking is acceptable before a first date? Like, are you zillowing? No, cuz I zillow. I don't even.
- [01:38]
B
I didn't even zillow people I date. Like really?
- [01:41]
A
No, I love to zillow little freaks. Guys, I'm doing something really stupid right now. We have an emergency debrief situation. Hi, this is Hallie from the streets of New York. Guys, I had every intention of staying in last night. Okay, guys, welcome back to Extra Dirty. I'm joined by Willa Bennett here, the editor in chief of Cosmo and 17Mag. True and honestly, one of the coolest girls. You literally know everyone in New York City and you were just like such an amaz amazing person. I want to hear about everything. I want to know how you like started your career because you're like so young.
- [02:27]
B
Yeah, I'm 31.
- [02:28]
A
To be in this position this young is just so incredible. Like, kudos to you. I want to hear, like, the whole backstory, like, where you're from. Where'd you start?
- [02:37]
B
I'll tell you everything.
- [02:38]
A
Tell me everything. Give me the tea.
- [02:39]
B
Should we start with our origin story?
- [02:41]
A
Yes, let's start with our origin so we can start. Okay, let's start there.
- [02:44]
B
Okay. So our origin story is I started following on Instagram, and I was like, this girl is so funny. And I was single, and I was, like, looking, and I was just like, she, like, really gets casual dating in, like, a very specific way. So I followed you, and you followed me back right away. Started DMing. And then she came to a Cosmo dinner, and you were, like, the star of the show.
- [03:06]
A
No, we had so much fun. I had 19 cosmos.
- [03:10]
B
Yeah.
- [03:10]
A
And everyone. The group that you curated at that event, by the way, it was like, no one kind of really, like, knew each other, but, like, everyone had something really to bring to the table, which I feel like, was the kind of the point of how you sat each other around the table.
- [03:22]
B
Yeah.
- [03:23]
A
And we had the best time.
- [03:24]
B
We were being so funny.
- [03:26]
A
We were being really funny. Like, who are we sitting next to?
- [03:29]
B
It was, like, me, you, Josie, Tota Suni, Suni Lee. Yeah, it was.
- [03:36]
A
It was. It was just an amazing.
- [03:37]
B
But you're really good at a dinner party, so I just wanted to start there.
- [03:40]
A
No. Yeah. So, yeah, we did that, and we had a great time, and now we're just besties, and here we are.
- [03:44]
B
Yeah. I love it. Okay, where am I from? Grew up in la. Yeah, I loved la. Still friends with all my friends from high school. Honestly, more friends from high school than college, which we can unpack. But I really, truly have, like, all the same friends I met in kindergarten, which is pretty scary.
- [04:01]
A
It's, like, unheard of usually.
- [04:03]
B
I know. Yeah. Especially la.
- [04:04]
A
That says a lot about you. Actually, then it does about a lot of people. Because I feel like when people, like, grow, they just change their friend groups all the time. But if you keep the real ones and the OGs, and that's like a. A telltale sign about your character, I feel.
- [04:16]
B
No, I always say the biggest red flag about someone is if they have different people at their birthday parties every year, that is like, giving red flag. You cannot date them. Like, that's so scary to me.
- [04:25]
A
Yeah. Or they're having. Yeah. Or they're having, like, a ton of friendship breakups. I feel like I see a lot of that. They're just always beaving. With their friends.
- [04:32]
B
I will say I never really, like, fight with my friends. Like, we'll have little things where it's like, hey, this hurt my feelings. And I'm like, totally. By the way. Like, there's, like, people who, like, challenge me in that way, and there's obviously hard conversations, but I don't. I have never liked trying to fact check this. No, I've actually never cut out a best friend. Truly.
- [04:49]
A
That's. That's a flex.
- [04:51]
B
Honestly, I don't know if that's a flex. It's just like, I really am at the point where I'm like, I have my close friends and, like, I feel really good about and solid about them. I think something interesting that you talk about a lot is, like, they're all married or engaged.
- [05:05]
A
It's a weird time.
- [05:06]
B
I'm living in the last one.
- [05:07]
A
It's. I'm the last one, too. And.
- [05:09]
B
But all love and respect.
- [05:10]
A
No, like. And I, like, appreciate other people's relationship statuses. Like, for me, I'm like, I'm so happy when my best. Best friends are, like, in love and in that step of life. But I feel like, societally, when you reach certain ages, you feel like you kind of have to, like, meet the mark in some way. Like, oh, like, I'm 28 right now. I should have a serious boyfriend and I should be engaged. Is kind of like what society wants you to feel. And then 30, you know, people started getting married, and then, like, 32 people start having kids. But, like, you can, like, I just don't want to follow those norms.
- [05:41]
B
Yeah. I am the fun one, though, at the wedding, which is so funny because even last week, there were, like, a series of events I had to go to for different friends, and I was the last one there. And I was like, every single person was like, will is your best friend. Like, she's the most fun. And I just thought that was so interesting because I. I obviously am fun and amazing, but I don't really think of myself as that.
- [06:03]
A
As the fun friends. Yeah, we had so much fun. What do you mean? You're, like, obviously the fun.
- [06:08]
B
Like, I don't. I was just like, wow, the stakes are really low.
- [06:11]
A
Yeah.
- [06:12]
B
The bar is on the ground.
- [06:14]
A
If, like, being a good wedding guest, though, is, like, such an important thing, because someone's got to keep the party alive.
- [06:20]
B
I am really good at a wedding.
- [06:21]
A
Yeah.
- [06:22]
B
And one of my friends, all of her friends are in private equity. I know nothing about private equity, but, like, let me tell you, I was talking about Private equity.
- [06:30]
A
I know I want to marry someone that is in private equity. Hopefully, you know.
- [06:34]
B
No, I was like, literally keeping the event alive, talking about private equity, and then somebody was like, what do you do? And I was like, I'm a writer. And they're like, what?
- [06:41]
A
Yeah. Well, you're also like a girl boss, like, through and through.
- [06:44]
B
Oh, thank you.
- [06:44]
A
Does that, like, affect, like, your dating life in any way? Like having such, like, a high level position and just like, no crushing it. Does that intimidate anyone? You're.
- [06:53]
B
No, I. I don't think it does, but I think I'm very protective over, like, dating in that way, so I think that's maybe the biggest thing. I, like, really, like, don't have my job listed on any dating profile, and I don't think I ever would know. Raya kind of like connects your Instagram, but even then it's like, I just, I'm like, I don't need people knowing that.
- [07:13]
A
No, you know, I don't either.
- [07:15]
B
And. Yeah. Have you ever felt like someone, like, used you or like, oh, yeah.
- [07:20]
A
Well, for me, it's like, a little different. You know, I do have a podcast called, like, extra Dirty.
- [07:24]
B
So, like, I either first message, like, are you extra dirty?
- [07:28]
A
No. I either, like, kind of scare men away in a sense because I think they're kind of scared that I'm gonna one, like, talk about them publicly online. And which I never, like, name drop or anything. I protect most people's pieces unless they, like, cross me in some form of way. But on the other end of it, I like, don't know people's intentions really at all. Like, when you're in like, the social media world and I'm sure you feel the same way, like, you don't really know what people are after, like, if they have good or pure intentions in that sense.
- [07:58]
B
Do people ever, like, be like, don't talk about me on your podcast all the time.
- [08:02]
A
So imagine all the people I don't talk about.
- [08:05]
B
Well, if someone asks, drop a story, drop us.
- [08:08]
A
So literally, if people ask me not to speak about them, I respect that. I'm not about, like, disrespecting people's boundaries, of course, but, like, my show is about, like, sharing my life and my experiences. It's not really, like, commenting on other people. So if it's like my experience with someone, like, I'll share that experience, but I don't need to be, like, dropping their address. Yeah, I'll make sure I, like, do enough to not do that. But it is interesting. I Feel like dating since I've gotten this space has become a little bit more difficult. I thought it'd become easier, like, you know, I don't know why I thought it'd be easier for some reason, but I feel like now I can't date someone that's also, you know, camera facing at all.
- [08:47]
B
Yeah. I have no interest in being in a public relationship. Like, I think that would be so stressful. I also think, like, I, like, I learned so much about dating from working at Cosmo. It's crazy. I feel like every day I'm learning more about like love and relationships and even just like being self assured and getting reassurance for yourself. So it's like, I just think, I think, like, I love that part and I love learning about it. It's like, why? Yeah, I don't know.
- [09:13]
A
It's definitely interesting. What do you think the biggest, like, as you probably hear so much like relationship dating advice, what is like the most, like, important little bit of information or advice you would share if you could think about everything you've heard, like, recently?
- [09:28]
B
I don't know if you're gonna like this.
- [09:29]
A
I want to hear it though. I think I need to hear based on what I know about.
- [09:32]
B
Okay. So honestly, there's like one common theme through everything, and it's open, honest communication.
- [09:37]
A
Open, honest.
- [09:38]
B
And it's like, don't play games. Like.
- [09:39]
A
Yeah.
- [09:40]
B
And I think, yeah, I want to hear your take on this, but I actually think it's so hot if you're just like, this is what I want.
- [09:48]
A
And this is what I want about it.
- [09:49]
B
Like, first date, you're like, hey, I actually like, think this is going somewhere. Like, is that crazy?
- [09:54]
A
I don't think that's crazy. I just think I. I would like to think I'm a very self aware person. So I know I'm toxic and I know I probably shouldn't be in a relationship right now for the benefit of that person. Because I like to play games. I thought. I still find that entertaining, which I think is very immature of me. And until I get sick of playing those games with someone, I feel like that's when I should be ready to enter a relationship. I still think my frontal lobe's developing when it comes to that.
- [10:19]
B
That's. That's really mature and like special. And I think that is something. Yeah, I mean, that's real. I just think it's so interesting, like, even being single in your twenties versus your thirties. Like the biggest thing that I think I noticed was like, people like on a first date are, like, this is what I'm looking for. And I think from what I've learned through Cosmo is, like, really, like, it's. The only way a relationship will work is, like, if you are truly open and honest. And I think, you know, I'm actually a millennial, so I'm not Gen Z. But something that I hear a lot from Gen Z readers are that, like, they're not sure what people think, and they spend all this time, like, exhausted about, like, what this text could mean. And, you know, I've heard you talk about, like, putting your text through ChatGPT or, like, asking it relationship advice. Like, it's so interesting because at the end of the, like, you could just ask. You could be like, hey, like, so, are you into me? What's up? Like, I would do that.
- [11:09]
A
No. Yeah. And I also feel like there's this element when you're, like, in your 30s versus your 20s where, like, you don't want to waste any time, like, being blind. Get to the point. Like, don't waste my time. I don't want to waste yours. I feel like that's important.
- [11:22]
B
Do you feel like if you said that to a guy that you, like, actually had a crush on, you were like, so are you into me? Would that, like, turn them off?
- [11:28]
A
I am just. It's not. It wouldn't roll off the tongue. Like, I'm scared. I, like, I'm one of those, like, anxious people that, like, overthinks and will send a screenshot of a text into chat cbt and be like, what does this mean? I'll send it to every group chat of all my different friends. Be like, what do you think this means? And try to analyze it.
- [11:46]
B
But what do you think it means?
- [11:47]
A
And usually it just means they're probably not that interested. Or that's, like, usually, like, if you're really having to think about it and analyze it, then it's probably not right. It would be my guess.
- [12:00]
B
Okay, so our. Our issue went live today. It's online issue, and there is a cover line on it that says, is great texting better than good sex? And basically, it's like, thinking deeply about, like, what is the role of texting? This. Because, like, I do think there are people who are genuinely not on their phone. And this is coming from someone who basically, like, is the quickest texter of all time. Like, yeah, no matter what. Like, I will text anyone back. Like, yeah, I. I'm on my phone. But I. I know that you've also talked about not being on your phone as much. And, like, it's hard for you.
- [12:35]
A
It takes me like two business days, but, like, I usually get back to people.
- [12:39]
B
I just want to say you did text me back this week.
- [12:41]
A
I did, I did, I did. But I actually, it took me like 36 hours, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, like, I'm so bad at, like, I have adhd. So, like, I'll read a text and then I'll be like, oh, crap, I thought I sent it. And then I'll have to go back.
- [12:53]
B
And my toxic trait is like, I either respond right away or never.
- [12:56]
A
That's how it should be.
- [12:57]
B
That's why it's like, even if a crush texts me, I'm responding right away. Yeah, they're like, completely forgot. I never speak to them again.
- [13:02]
A
Yeah.
- [13:03]
B
But. So what do you think is good? Is great texting better than good sex?
- [13:07]
A
Great texting better than good sex.
- [13:09]
B
See, this is why it's a good cover.
- [13:10]
A
I feel like these are like the difference between, like, two different love languages though. Because if you're a great texter, you're obviously the lines of communication are really open and that could mean, like, validation or affirmations over text rather than like, good, not great sex. That's physical touch. And I feel like that's a. If it's just average is good. Average though. You mean good versus great. I'm asking too many questions.
- [13:36]
B
No, no, these are all the things.
- [13:38]
A
We all thinking it.
- [13:38]
B
No, we all gathered in a room and really talked about this. We played with it being like, good texting, good sex, but it's like, great texting is like, it's right for you. Like, some people don't care. I think, like, some people can be in a relationship for two years and, you know, rarely text their partner. And then there's other people in my life that, like, if they're not getting texts consistently, they're like, we're not together.
- [14:02]
A
Yeah, I guess it depends. I feel like it could depend on a lot of things. What phase of the relationship you're in.
- [14:07]
B
True, true, true.
- [14:08]
A
Or if constant texting is important to you because, like you said, not everyone's on their phones 24 7. I don't know. What did you decide on that one? Which one do you think is better?
- [14:19]
B
I think it's really interesting. I think we looked at it from a lot of different angles. Gen Z, like, obviously this is a generalization, but for, for the most part, most of Gen Z do want consistent texting, even in a situationship. And when they don't get that. They do think it is less committal, which is interesting. Like part of the new commitment for young people really has come with like contact over the phone. Maybe it's like an Instagram, like maybe it's a dm, but that was really interesting. And then in the COVID story we had Ariana Greenblatt interviewed by Jake Shane, who I'm sure you, Jake, know each other, J who is amazing and did a fantastic job. But they both talk about like how important even just like going out and partying. Like they're so worried about like people taking videos of them and how that's kind of like.
- [15:05]
A
Yeah.
- [15:06]
B
Influenced their relationship with intimacy. And that's something I, I truly did not experience growing up, growing up in la. Like, yeah, me and my friends, like we would go out, we, we just weren't, we didn't feel like we were being watched. We were growing up and like, you know, kissing boys and there was, that wasn't a big deal. So it's interesting.
- [15:22]
A
Yeah, I mean I recently ran into that situation not too long ago. Like I go out and sometimes you get like a little tipsy and you're with the guy and you like do the dance floor, make out. But like, you can't really like, it's interesting like, because people are constantly always watching you. So like you can't really have like a intimate moment with someone like out in public anymore without people like clocking you immediately.
- [15:44]
B
Do you worry about people like photoshopping? Because that's what they talked about in the COVID story. Yeah, like photoshopping alcohol closer to them. And like our integrity mod basically is like, I don't like to indulge but I do get nervous at house parties because like people photoshop stuff.
- [16:01]
A
I will say the one thing I've been a little bit. I mean everything I talk about on here is basically I try to be super. Like that's exactly. We're gonna find out in public. But I will say, like, I am trying to monitor how much I drink because when I do drink I get a little cross eyed and then I get. And then what's been happening to me is people like want to take a selfie and I'm cross eyed and like that's on the Internet and then like that's on Reddit and then I'm just like looking like kind of like a mess.
- [16:30]
B
You're always beautiful, don't worry.
- [16:31]
A
Oh, thank you. Well, I need to hear that today.
- [16:33]
B
Literally, of course.
- [16:34]
A
But it's, it is funny. But that's just, I Guess the world we live in.
- [16:40]
B
Do you think that I actually saw that Alex Cooper just put out an episode about like doom scrolling and it. I thought it was really interesting. Especially the night before our online issue where she kind of talks about how like our brains now are rewired because of like we're getting attention all the time. Do you think that has affected your relationship with intimacy? Doom scrolling Just like getting validation all the time. So it's like if someone's not texting, you're like, they hate me. But it's like, no, they don't. They just.
- [17:08]
A
Yeah.
- [17:08]
B
No, in private equity.
- [17:10]
A
No. Yeah, I. I like to think that too because my, you know, our jobs are like a lot of it is on our phone and we have to be consuming a lot of content to know like what to be talking about and stuff like that, which is so different from like a normal corporate like private equity whatever job. Like where you probably can't be on your phone as much.
- [17:28]
B
Totally.
- [17:28]
A
Some people don't even have Tick tock. I like forget that too.
- [17:31]
B
There's people who don't have tick tock.
- [17:33]
A
No. Which I would prefer to date someone that wouldn't even know what tick tock is. I'm not even kidd.
- [17:37]
B
Me too. I'm like, talk to me about private equity.
- [17:40]
A
No, literally, that's what targeting private equity support for Unwell comes from Google Pixel. Okay, daddy gang, listen to me. Let me set the scene. You are on a girls trip. Everyone's dressed up. It's the perfect golden hour lighting. And somehow it is impossible to get a group photo where everyone looks good. Okay. One person's blinking, another hates their angle. And of course the. The one where you look amazing is.
- [18:11]
B
The one that your friends absolutely hate. So relatable.
- [18:14]
A
That is where The Google Pixel 10 Pro's camera comes in. This thing is wild. Let me explain it to you.
- [18:21]
B
Okay?
- [18:22]
A
It has Auto Best Take that automatically finds and combines similar photos into one where everyone looks great.
- [18:29]
B
I know this is literally a dream.
- [18:31]
A
So all of those blinks and look aways are replaced with picture perfect smiles. And you know how you always take.
- [18:37]
B
Great photos of your friends but they can't seem to take a decent picture of.
- [18:41]
A
Well, the Google Pixel has a feature called Camera Coach that literally coaches you.
- [18:46]
B
On how to take the best photo.
- [18:48]
A
Left, right, zoom in, step back. It maps it all out. So when you ask someone to take a photo of you, you know it's going to look good. It's the girls trip essential. I didn't know I needed, but now I've got it. So yeah, get outside of your comfort phone and try the Google Pixel 10 Pro. Check it out at google store.com camera coach results may vary. Cold outside Turn up the heat with DraftKings Casino, the home of Cash Eruption. New players get 500 spins over 10 days on your choice of Cash Eruption slots. When you wager $5, play classic cash Eruption today, then Red Hot Joker or Coins and Clovers tomorrow. It's all up to you. Get the app, sign up with Code Extra Dirty, then start spinning on the home of Cash Eruption in partnership with DraftKings Casino. The crown is yours. Gambling problem, call 1-800- gambler in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly. 21 plus physically present in Connecticut, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, West Virginia only. Void in Ontario eligibility restrictions apply. Non withdrawable casino spins issued as 50 spins per day for 10 days. Valid for featured game only and expire each day after 24 hours. See terms@casino.draftkings.com promos ends January 4, 2026 at 11:59pm Eastern Time. Wait, I wanted your opinion on this ghosting.
- [20:28]
B
Okay, so my professional opinion is like, it's not great. Have a convo. But sometimes I've gotten into these conversations at work where like, do you think it's like. And there's no right answer to this, but like this is a debate that's come up a lot on staff. Like, do you think like ghosting someone after like one or two dates, like, is maybe okay because, because like it's kind of self important to text them. Being like, hey, I'm not interested anymore. It's like assuming that they're thinking of you. I don't know, there's something that can come off as disrespectful too. So I don't know, I'm like behind every ghosting story, there's two sides to every story.
- [21:06]
A
Yeah, I mean, I feel like if you've been intimate with someone, ghosting's kind of wrong. But then I, I also, it also like there leaves too much gray area where you think maybe like, excuse, excuse, excuse, excuse, maybe they're gonna text you eventually. Whereas if you just send like a hard like black and white text, being like, hi, not feeling it, that might hurt more in the moment. But at least you don't have to like think about the what ifs and the maybes.
- [21:33]
B
If you were on the other side, what would you rather have like Would I rather receive that or just like a. Just like, you hit them up, like, what's up? And then they just never respond again.
- [21:42]
A
I mean, both have happened to me. I've gotten a whole paragraph, like, describing the reasons why they didn't want to continue seeing me after spending, like, a whole week with them. And I don't know, I didn't like that. But then it was easier to get over than a ghosting situation, you know?
- [22:00]
B
Yeah. Yeah. Look, I think, like, with every romantic dynamic, there's, like, so many things that go into it, but sometimes I'm like, I think ghosting is okay if it's very early. I do think if you've been romantically involved for a while, like, it is important. Like, more than a month. It's like, come on.
- [22:18]
A
Yeah, more than a month. Give them a call.
- [22:19]
B
Like, do it in person.
- [22:20]
A
Do it in person.
- [22:22]
B
We published this piece about, like, Texas and your situationship based on, like, different ways that you're feeling. And again, the common theme is, like, just ask for what you want. Like, if someone's like, only hanging out with you at night, be like, hey, can we meet here instead this time? Like, you don't have to make it a big. A big to do. You don't have to make it like that you're in love with them. You just literally ask for what you need. And I think directness is so hot.
- [22:44]
A
Yeah.
- [22:44]
B
And I think that's kind of what's missing. It's like, a lot of times we are conditioned to think that asking for what you want or showing, like, not playing it cool isn't cool. But I don't know.
- [22:56]
A
Do you think this generation, old Gen Z is less or more direct generation.
- [23:02]
B
Than, you know, both, because they're so online. So in some ways I just think they're less. I think doom scrolling has, like, really made it harder to go out. So, like, in the same way that, like, me and my friends were going out in high school, you know, going on dates or, like, figuring out what we wanted or experimenting with different things like that, that doesn't seem to be the same. But I think they're direct. I think they just, like, are like, not trying to waste time. And that's admirable, I think.
- [23:33]
A
Yeah. Do you think dating apps in social media in general has, like, affected how people date now? Do they? Do you think that's made people a lot more accessible or, you know, men are looking at women having too high standards because of how people like, you know what? You know what I'm Trying to ask.
- [23:52]
B
Yeah. I think we see it go up and down, but I think speed dating and blind dates being back, like, kind of says it all. It's like, people actually do want to meet cute. Like, people want to be, like, at a coffee shop and be like, hey, you're high. Here's my number. I think, like, I see that even getting bigger and bigger. We talk about blind dates a lot at Cosmo, and I think what's so cool about blind dates is, like, if it's a friend of a friend setup, like, you know, they're not gonna be crazy.
- [24:16]
A
Yeah.
- [24:17]
B
You know, like, at least they're in your wheelhouse. They know, like, you have mutuals. I don't know. I think it's cool.
- [24:24]
A
Wait, now that we're speaking about blind dates, I saw your blind date series.
- [24:28]
B
Yeah.
- [24:28]
A
Who is, like, your most fun person to chat with on that?
- [24:31]
B
Oh, that's a good question.
- [24:35]
A
I love the concept. It's so cute.
- [24:37]
B
Renee rap was honestly pretty. Pretty wild.
- [24:39]
A
She seems super cool.
- [24:40]
B
She was like, yeah. Line after line after line after line. Like, I kept being like, what? She just. I think it's so cool how she just, like, truly is herself.
- [24:50]
A
Yeah.
- [24:51]
B
Like, being.
- [24:52]
A
And she seems so comfortable, too. Just, like, she's always just, like, laid back, and she never seems to, like.
- [24:59]
B
Yeah.
- [24:59]
A
Everything just rolls off her tongue, like, every. Totally. She's very, like, mysterious and cool.
- [25:04]
B
Yeah, I love that one. Conan Gray was really funny just because, like, he. I feel like the way he talks about dating is so him. I don't know. I just think with dating, you have to be yourself. And so I think the guests that come on and are like, this is what works for me is so good. I don't know. So fun. That series is so fun. The hardest part, though, genuinely, and, you know, this is like, an interviewer, especially doing on camera is like, I don't know who the guest is. So my biggest fear always is that it's gonna be someone that, like, I can't ask them, like, the right questions. It's just really hard to go in blind.
- [25:38]
A
I mean, I can't imagine, like, doing this blind. And with a voice changer, too. Right? Like.
- [25:42]
B
Yeah.
- [25:43]
A
So you have literally no idea who you're talking to.
- [25:45]
B
I have no idea until I take off the blindfold. And then once I take off the blindfold, I'm, like, usually, like, praying as I take it off slowly, I'm like, please, please, please be someone I like kind of know.
- [25:55]
A
Yeah.
- [25:56]
B
But it's pretty scary that part, I think someone like Renee Rapp. Like I genuinely know her music so well. Like that was fun. And we've like met Conan Grace same. Like there's people I vibe with Serena from Love Island. Like I love, love violence. So that was easy. Like I love when there's something like that, but every once in a while there's one that's like scary and you just go with it.
- [26:17]
A
So that, that's hard to roll with the punches.
- [26:20]
B
Yeah, you get it.
- [26:20]
A
Especially like when you don't know someone that well. You're like, okay, how much can I ask about sex life and dating? Yeah, stuff like that. And you just kind of like have to like banter off their personality and kind of roll with it. But it's kind of like the fun in it too.
- [26:33]
B
Logan Lerman though was another favorite. I was like, we're flirting. He was like, we're not. And I was like, no, we're flirting. After I was like, was this not your favorite date you've ever been on? And he was like, no, I'm married. I'm done.
- [26:50]
A
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- [28:41]
B
Like in like a, like probably not like real romantic way, but maybe like fun one night thing? Yeah.
- [28:47]
A
Like a swear the moment kind of. Yeah.
- [28:48]
B
It depends on what you're calling good though.
- [28:50]
A
Okay. Can you actually find a happy ending massage in New York City?
- [28:54]
B
I don't think so.
- [28:55]
A
No. And like, I kind of judge people that do that. I'm not gonna lie.
- [28:59]
B
I've never heard of anyone actually doing that. Have you?
- [29:01]
A
Yeah, all my college friends, all my college guy friends used to do that. And I actually know a couple girls have done it.
- [29:07]
B
I've literally never heard anyone.
- [29:10]
A
Yeah, it's kind of sauce, but I can say I've never done that. I have never done that. Do you prefer coffee or drinks on a first date?
- [29:20]
B
Drinks.
- [29:20]
A
Drinks.
- [29:21]
B
But we're very pro coffee at Cosmo because there was all that tick tock discourse that's like, no coffee. And like, I, I disagree. I think like, there's no right or wrong first date. And like, if someone asked me a coffee date, like, no problem. But my preference. Wine bar.
- [29:37]
A
Wine bar.
- [29:38]
B
Because it's like quiet enough to talk. Like I do want to actually talk on a first date.
- [29:42]
A
Yeah.
- [29:43]
B
So it's like quiet enough to talk while also I love a glass of wine.
- [29:48]
A
I went to a whiskey bar on a first date.
- [29:51]
B
That's fun.
- [29:51]
A
And that was really unhinged because I don't know how to drink whiskey. And I got like kind of up and I was like, oh, like.
- [29:58]
B
But like, how did I go about. He was like, meet me at this bar. And you were like, sounds good. And then you're like, it's a whiskey.
- [30:02]
A
Yeah. He was like, meet me at this whiskey bar. And I. What, am I going to suggest something else? Like, I don't know. I also been seeing a lot of people, like, thinking that first dates, like, should like only be drinks. And you. It's okay to leave after two drinks. Have you seen that?
- [30:16]
B
Definitely. I think it's okay to leave after one drink.
- [30:19]
A
Really? I've done that like after like 30 minutes. Yeah.
- [30:22]
B
So you're just like anyone, anything but.
- [30:24]
A
Like, does that mean you don't like them?
- [30:25]
B
No. You're just like, I gotta go.
- [30:28]
A
I'm obsessed. Yeah.
- [30:30]
B
I like, can't not be myself. I'm gonna be in any situation. It's like, I'm still like, okay.
- [30:35]
A
You're just like, gotta go.
- [30:36]
B
Thank you.
- [30:36]
A
Margarita. Okay.
- [30:38]
B
Period on the first date. That's like, your. To me, That's a commitment.
- [30:42]
A
What else? That's another good question. What would be, like, your go to first drink order on a first date?
- [30:48]
B
Tequila soda.
- [30:50]
A
I thought you were gonna say Cosmopolitan.
- [30:52]
B
Let me try that again. I only drink Cosmopolitan.
- [30:56]
A
No, they're my favorite.
- [30:57]
B
No, but I will say a margarita is, like, you're, like, committing to the night because you do get, like, a headache after that.
- [31:04]
A
No, like, you're committing to, like, being hungover tomorrow. And, like, you want to, like, decide if, like, this person's worth the hangover.
- [31:09]
B
No one's worth that.
- [31:10]
A
No one's worth the hangover.
- [31:11]
B
Even if you have a fat crush. Tequila soda or, like, a beer.
- [31:16]
A
A beer. I always do a dirty martini, but people tell me not to do that because, like, olives and the blue cheese can, like, make your breast smell.
- [31:23]
B
Wait, I saw this somewhere. Yeah, that's your favorite drink. I literally never thought to order that. Really?
- [31:29]
A
You've never tried a dirty martini?
- [31:33]
B
I know. I know. Everyone's face in this room just gasps. No, I'm like, a tequila soda down. I love a tequila soda.
- [31:40]
A
I don't know how people order tequila sodas at bars.
- [31:44]
B
Why?
- [31:44]
A
They taste like just, like, tequila soda. Y. I don't know how to explain it.
- [31:50]
B
What's the freaking problem?
- [31:51]
A
Like, I kind of want, like, what if you were on a date and they ordered a pina colada?
- [31:56]
B
I feel like I would be like, are you 21 years old? Because suddenly I'm confused.
- [32:01]
A
Like, it does say a lot about.
- [32:03]
B
Like, that drink gives, like, not drinking age.
- [32:05]
A
Yeah.
- [32:05]
B
Yeah.
- [32:06]
A
They're like, can I have a strawberry daiquiri? And you're like, okay, strawberry daiquiri is hilarious. Okay.
- [32:11]
B
But Estella is a hot drink to get on a first date.
- [32:13]
A
Or, like, a Corona Light and you're, like, in Miami.
- [32:17]
B
Yeah, I'm down for. I think, like, what? I just, like, confused, but no worries. I support.
- [32:23]
A
What is it? Okay. When is it time to end a talking stage?
- [32:28]
B
Okay. Talking stage. On tech text, you just, like, no kiss.
- [32:32]
A
I think talking stages are. Are anything before you declare that you're in a relationship. Right?
- [32:40]
B
Oh, we. I think of it more as, like, talking stage. Is like, you haven't kissed or gone on a date. You're just, like, texting or, like, entertaining the.
- [32:50]
A
How often do you think people should be texting during that weird phase? Actually, now that we're going from asking for a friend to text. Yeah.
- [32:57]
B
App to text. Oh, like longer than a week is kind of two weeks. It.
- [33:02]
A
Yeah.
- [33:02]
B
But I don't know, like, I'm gone all the freaking time, so you probably are too. Like, you're. You're gone. Like, it's like different. But I think, yeah, if you are on an app and you're trying to transition to text, I would do that as quickly as possible and then see if the banter's there. If the banter's there, go for a drink. I don't know. It's different for every dynamic. But I. I would not give it more than a week. We publish in Cosmo in this issue, three to five messages on app and then if you suggest a place and there's no follow up, just to like, let it go. And I don't think that's ghosting like that to me isn't. That's like.
- [33:39]
A
Because, yeah, there's no contact.
- [33:41]
B
But I think sometimes people do just want to text.
- [33:46]
A
It's like a pen pal. Some people just want like, attention and sometimes it's over text.
- [33:51]
B
Do you have people that like, you texted for like a bit and then nothing ever happened and you just left it there? Like, those are like, scary to me.
- [33:58]
A
I still have guys that like, I talk to regularly and like, we like pretend to make plans or like link up or like late night link up and it just like never happens. I just like needed someone to text in that moment, but I'm usually the problem.
- [34:11]
B
But do you think that, like, they think that, like, you guys had a thing? You never met that.
- [34:18]
A
Oh, I have this guy. Like, I. Yeah, please tell. You're like, I have a couple guys that aren't even living in this country that like, we are. We make plants to hang out and we just go through like these little talking phases and then I'm like, wait, you live in like Sweden?
- [34:36]
B
Highly specific.
- [34:37]
A
No.
- [34:37]
B
Yeah.
- [34:38]
A
It's so random. But like, sometimes I just need a pen pal.
- [34:41]
B
Have you ever had a flinger Fashion Week week?
- [34:43]
A
A fling at Fashion Week?
- [34:45]
B
Yeah, like in Paris or Milan.
- [34:47]
A
I wasn't invited to Paris or Milan this year. Thank you for bringing that up. Okay, so people, for this Fashion Week, I actually did have a small. He came in. He came in from wherever the he lives.
- [35:00]
B
Gotta go to the Mimi show. Brb.
- [35:02]
A
Yeah, those are always fun. What do you think of Fashion Week?
- [35:04]
B
I love Fashion Week. It was so fun.
- [35:05]
A
Was there a favorite show you had?
- [35:06]
B
I think what I loved about this season is like, the energy was really there in Paris. Like, there were so many debuts. So I felt like every single night. There was, like, so much to do and so much to see and favorite show. I mean, Chanel was truly, like, gorgeous.
- [35:24]
A
How much stalking is acceptable before a first date? Like, are you zillowing? No, because I Zillow.
- [35:31]
B
I don't even. I didn't even Zillow people I date.
- [35:34]
A
Like, really? No, I love to Zillow.
- [35:37]
B
I'm, like, not a stalker. Like, I actually am not. Like, I fully, like, am. Like, I don't want to know things that I don't need to know.
- [35:46]
A
Ignorance is bliss.
- [35:48]
B
Yeah. And, like, especially when you. The early stage of dating, it's like, I want people to tell me about themselves on their time, turn, their turn, their turn. And so, yeah, I think that would actually freak me out. But lots of my friends don't agree with this. And sometimes, like, they'll stalk people and be like, did you know that? And I'm like, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. So, yeah, but I. I know that, like, people have admitted to stalking me, and I'm always like, that's so freaking weird. Why would you tell me that, you freak.
- [36:15]
A
This is why I prefer people with no social media. Because I. It'll stop me from stalking them. But, like, I need to know everything. I need to know all our mutuals. Why are they mutuals? Where are you from? Where you live? Zillow. I'm a psychopath, I think, though. Okay. Would you ever date someone in a different city or what do you think about people doing long distance relationships?
- [36:32]
B
Yeah, whatever.
- [36:33]
A
I mean, we're bouncing around anyways.
- [36:35]
B
I'm never here anyway.
- [36:36]
A
Yeah. Has the ick ever been damaging for relationships?
- [36:41]
B
No.
- [36:43]
A
Do you have any ex?
- [36:44]
B
Big X, they said, do you have any exes? And I was like, yeah, unfortunately.
- [36:50]
A
Okay.
- [36:51]
B
Do I have any X? No, I think, like, not being able to talk and just like, like, being mean. Like, I don't like people who are, like, mean as a way to flirt. Like, I just don't. Like, I'm just like, come on, I'm 31.
- [37:05]
A
Like, no. Yeah. Also people that mean to wait staff.
- [37:09]
B
That too. But they're usually the same.
- [37:11]
A
Yeah, usually the same people.
- [37:13]
B
It's like people who, like, are, like, belittling of, like, my job as, like, a means of flirting is, like, immediate. No.
- [37:20]
A
Why the. Why the. Would they do that?
- [37:22]
B
I don't know. People just be flirting, like, there. I think that is something. Like, people are mean by flirting. And I always Say that to my friends. Like, that is like actually like, I'm like, never again.
- [37:30]
A
That's such like a kindergarten, like, perspective. I feel like that's exactly how people flirt when they're, when they're six, you know, like you push the girl you like into the sand lot.
- [37:41]
B
Hey, some things continue, some things never change. No one's ever been mean to you as a way to flirt.
- [37:46]
A
Oh, they were always mean to me. You should have seen my haircut when I was nine.
- [37:50]
B
What I'm talking about now.
- [37:52]
A
I mean, people are mean to me all the time. But men, I mean, yeah, like teasing.
- [37:58]
B
But like, teasing's different than nothing.
- [38:01]
A
Like Achilles heel where like I would want to like slap him right across the face, but close or just like.
- [38:06]
B
Commenting on like food and stuff I think is like inappropriate. Like, yeah, like this one girl was telling me she went on a date with this guy and she was like, he kept commenting that I was eating and like girls that usually eat on a date. And I was like, he's out.
- [38:18]
A
Oh my God, that throw me through a wall.
- [38:21]
B
Like, that is so inappropriate.
- [38:23]
A
Yeah. I mean, especially in light of the stuff I've talked about online with my eating stuff. If a guy was commenting on anything about food or how I, how much I eat, how much I don't eat, I would kind of probably have a panic attack. And that's just not, not funny or cute.
- [38:39]
B
No, that's like, leave the restaurant.
- [38:40]
A
Let's leave the restaurant. That's. I'm going to the bathroom. I'll be right back.
- [38:43]
B
Wait, have you ever kicked someone out of the restaurant?
- [38:45]
A
Have you have ever kicked on a.
- [38:46]
B
Date, like, been like, you have to leave. This is going badly?
- [38:51]
A
No, I don't think, in case anyone is curious, what was your worst first date experience though? That I need to know.
- [38:58]
B
I don't know.
- [38:59]
A
Were you just like, this isn't working, left at any time?
- [39:04]
B
No, I think I always politely, I'm like, I gotta go.
- [39:06]
A
Sorry, I got things to do, people.
- [39:09]
B
Yeah, I, I don't, I'm not, I don't really like drama.
- [39:14]
A
Are you guys saving up that extra money to order your coffee in the morning? Chime understands that every dollar counts. That's why when you set up direct deposit through Chime, you get access to fee free features like free overdraft coverage, getting paid up to two days early. With direct deposit and more, you can open a checking account with no monthly fees and no maintenance fees. And not to mention access to over 47,000 fee free ATMs. Chime is banking done right? Work on your financial goals through Chime today. Open account in 2 minutes at chime.com extra dirty that's chime.com extra dirty dirty. Chime feels like progress. Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank NA or Stride Bank NA members fdic Spot me Eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Timing depends on submission of payment file. Fees apply at out of network ATMs. Bank ranking and number of ATMs. According to US News in World Report 2023 Chime checking account required. When was the last time you had a real crush? I'm talking checking your phone every three seconds or getting butterflies in your stomach when you get a Tinder notification from them. Kind of crush. Those crush feelings are happening on Tinder. There's no pressure to take things too seriously. Just like flirt and vibe with people who actually get you.
- [40:43]
B
You.
- [40:44]
A
There are so many heart melting, stomach fluttering, potential matches on Tinder waiting for you. Explore all the possibilities for yourself. Tinder. It starts with a swipe. Download Tinder today. Well, what's your love language?
- [41:00]
B
I think verbal affirmation. Like, I really love, like, letters and like, talking and la la. Like romance. Romance. Yeah.
- [41:10]
A
I feel like I could be more romantic.
- [41:12]
B
Like, I am like, I am named after Willa Cather, my Antonia. Like, I love romance. Like, I work at Cosmo. Come on.
- [41:20]
A
Yeah, I guess romance is everything. Romance needs to make a comeback because.
- [41:24]
B
Romance is making a comeback.
- [41:25]
A
I love when guys are romantic to me and I feel like if they were a little bit more romantic, then it would open up a softer side to more women.
- [41:33]
B
But I think you'll find someone one day that like, like, will bring that out of you. I think something so interesting about relationships is like, you know, you even watch like, you know, like one of my friends will go through a breakup and like around this one person, she was very anxious or she was very needy. And then like the next person she dates, she's like completely different. She's like, oh, I don't care. Like, we can be an open relationship. And it's like, what? You're the same person. And I think different people bring out different things. And so I think you'll find someone where you're like, okay, I'm gonna be soft now.
- [42:01]
A
Yeah. I just feel like when the time's right and I meet the right person, things will just like fall into place. But I'm not gonna like, force myself into dating because I'm like a True believer in that, too. Like, to not settle. I'm, like, really against settling. And I see a lot of my friends settling. Really? Not, like, my best friends. They're all in, like, pretty good relationships, but, like, people I went to college in high school with, they're like, oh, we're at a certain age. Like, I feel like I have a boyfriend, might as well marry them because I'm 28, 29, you know?
- [42:30]
B
Yeah.
- [42:31]
A
Do you see any of that?
- [42:32]
B
Yeah, I think all of my friends are. They're with who they're supposed to be, but I think. Yeah. I mean, every single day on Instagram, there's like, a new person from high school, either with a baby or. Or a husband.
- [42:44]
A
Yeah. It's like, non.
- [42:46]
B
I'm just, like, on my own journey. That's what I always say. I'm on my own path.
- [42:52]
A
Me and you both, girl, we're on the same page here.
- [42:55]
B
Yeah.
- [42:56]
A
What's the wildest pitch or story you've ever approved for Cosmo?
- [43:00]
B
Whoa. Wildest pitch or story? Earlier in the year, there was this writer, Vera, who basically spent six months on right wing dating apps.
- [43:14]
A
Oh.
- [43:15]
B
And that was pretty wild. It was before we knew Trump was going to be president. So it ended up happening during. And it was just a really interesting, like, she was trying to be.
- [43:26]
A
There's right wing dating apps.
- [43:28]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a bunch.
- [43:29]
A
Oh, I didn't know that.
- [43:30]
B
And she went on a bunch of them, and she went on dates and she tried to see if she could fall in love as someone who she identified as, like, basically the complete opposite of that, to say the least. So that was. That was pretty wild. Just, like, hearing her talk, like, was.
- [43:47]
A
That, like, a case study she was doing, like, just to see if was it or was it for her?
- [43:52]
B
She was just like, I'm very single. Nothing's worked. And, like, I am curious, like, what it would be like, like, could I fall in love?
- [43:58]
A
Love.
- [43:58]
B
And do you like what happened? She did not. Yeah. She just was like, I can't be sexually attracted to these men who, like, don't believe women should have rights. Like, it was, like, very fundamental. But it. You know, she really tried to lead with curiosity and, like, openness, and that was interesting.
- [44:16]
A
She probably had to have a lot of patience and keep a really open mind to.
- [44:19]
B
Yeah.
- [44:20]
A
Do that for six months.
- [44:21]
B
Six months also is way too long.
- [44:22]
A
That's. Yeah. Weeks, maybe would be a cap. Okay. Is a sex playlist hot or awkward?
- [44:31]
B
Like, one in general? Like, come on, give me some.
- [44:34]
A
Like, if you're like putting on a sex playlist when you have sex every time.
- [44:39]
B
Same playlist. Nah.
- [44:40]
A
On shuffle though, maybe. No, not.
- [44:43]
B
Not a thing.
- [44:45]
A
I mean, I feel like it was a thing I used to be.
- [44:47]
B
Really? It's called sex playlist. Like if.
- [44:49]
A
Yeah.
- [44:50]
B
I'd be like, you're insane for that.
- [44:53]
A
I used to have a sex playlist in college.
- [44:55]
B
Who bought it? Wait, can I guess?
- [44:57]
A
Actually, yeah, it was like Calvin Harris. It was. Yeah, it was like the weekend.
- [45:02]
B
Okay. Hot.
- [45:03]
A
A little Drake.
- [45:05]
B
Drake.
- [45:06]
A
Like the slower Drake song is when he was like in his like lover boy era. But like also kind of like there was a mix of like rap in there that didn't make any sense, but I guess it would pick up rhythm.
- [45:15]
B
I guess it was like your playlist.
- [45:17]
A
It was my.
- [45:18]
B
Whatever was. There was interchangeable playlist stays on playlist.
- [45:22]
A
Was a non negotiable. But I don't do that anymore. That would be kind of weird. Okay, what is an immediate turn on you have or an immediate turn off or both?
- [45:31]
B
Those are two different questions, Ms. Journalist.
- [45:33]
A
Yeah.
- [45:36]
B
Immediate. I don't know, being able to talk, hang out, like be fun to hang out with.
- [45:41]
A
Be fun to hang out with and turn on.
- [45:44]
B
Having your own friends is important. What is the turn off? I don't know. Not being able to talk, like truly, it's like. And like not fun. I don't know.
- [45:56]
A
So you don't like. You hate introverts?
- [45:59]
B
No, I would totally date introvert and I probably have if I think back. But I think life is hard. You gotta find like someone to have fun with.
- [46:09]
A
You gotta find some comedic relief and just be able to be silly with.
- [46:13]
B
Someone and just like loving life. Like I do think I wake up every day and I'm like very grateful and like do I'm naturally happy and so I can't be with someone that's like, ugh, the world sucks all the freaking time. Yeah, it's like, no, let's go out.
- [46:29]
A
Do you like to go out a lot or you're like more.
- [46:31]
B
Which is funny.
- [46:32]
A
You don't like to go out a lot?
- [46:33]
B
Well, I got a lot for work, so on the weekends I'm like, I. I'm out.
- [46:36]
A
You're like. So you go out during the week and then you stay in on the weekends?
- [46:40]
B
Oh, yeah, I'm like watching tv.
- [46:42]
A
What's your favorite TV show right now?
- [46:44]
B
Okay, I just watched all of I Love LA by Rachel Sennett. Ooh, so freaking good. So I just watched the entire thing in one sitting.
- [46:52]
A
Was. And it was that good.
- [46:55]
B
It's on hbo.
- [46:56]
A
Hbo. Okay, I'll watch it.
- [46:58]
B
Yeah.
- [46:59]
A
Have you ever been cheated on?
- [47:01]
B
Yes. My first girlfriend ever was in college, and she cheated on me with someone, and they are now married.
- [47:10]
A
Oh, really? The person she cheated on you with?
- [47:13]
B
Yeah. So I'm honestly. No worries because I'm like, y', all.
- [47:16]
A
They should be thanking you because, like.
- [47:18]
B
Like, we were not meant to be.
- [47:19]
A
Yeah.
- [47:20]
B
And I. And I knew that at the time and now, but, like, it just. I was like, you know what? That's all good.
- [47:26]
A
I mean, cheating is crazy, but I feel like it happens a lot in college, unfortunately.
- [47:33]
B
Yeah. And I think I have never cheated on anyone. I'm pretty anti cheating, but I do think, like, for them, it was supposed to happen.
- [47:43]
A
Yeah.
- [47:43]
B
So I have no, like. I literally have, like, no anger.
- [47:46]
A
No anger towards it. It.
- [47:47]
B
But I do think, like, emotional cheating is. Is tricky, and I think something that Cosmo's audience is really interested in. And I think with, you know, with the rise of people dating AI bots or, like, the rise of, like, ghosting and all this, like, it is a sticky slope that I think we're going to continue to cover.
- [48:06]
A
Do you think emotional cheating is worse than physical cheating will nightstand no connection with that person?
- [48:13]
B
I think it's all not kosher.
- [48:15]
A
It's all bad.
- [48:16]
B
Yeah.
- [48:17]
A
Yeah.
- [48:17]
B
It's, like, all not good. And I think open, honest communication. I think it's one thing to, like, go to your partner and be like, hey, I kind of have a crush. Let's talk through it. What am I not getting from this relationship? But then to just, like, do it is. Is.
- [48:29]
A
Do you think it's a forgivable offense, like, if they were honest about it?
- [48:32]
B
I think you can definitely talk through it. I know couples that have. I think it'd be really hard for me, though.
- [48:39]
A
Yeah. I don't think I'd be able to, like. I think I'd always have a mental block.
- [48:43]
B
Yeah. And I think.
- [48:45]
A
Yeah.
- [48:46]
B
I. I just think it depends on, like, how safe you feel in the relationship. But I. I really, like. I don't think I could do it.
- [48:52]
A
No.
- [48:52]
B
But I don't know. Maybe one day.
- [48:55]
A
Yeah. I mean, I feel like that would be setting the bar. I feel like we don't need to be going after any of these cheaters. I've been. Every single relationship I've been in, I've been cheated on.
- [49:03]
B
Really.
- [49:04]
A
I've been even cheated on in situationships where, like, it's technically not even a real thing to Be cheated on. Okay.
- [49:09]
B
What?
- [49:09]
A
Yeah.
- [49:10]
B
Wow.
- [49:11]
A
And I've cheated once, but they started it.
- [49:14]
B
How did you feel about cheating, like, when you were doing it?
- [49:17]
A
I felt horrible and disgusted, but I was trying to. It was a rebuttal cheat. He cheated first, and then I thought I would get back at him. This is all in college. And then I just felt I have too much anxiety and guilt to hold secrets like that in, which I guess is a good thing for a relationship. Usually when I am in a relationship, I'm extremely, like, loyal, but I go after, like, not loyal people.
- [49:42]
B
Yeah. I look like everyone's on their journey. I think college is, like, a time where you do make a lot of mistakes. And, yeah, everyone's learning, like, truly, but I. I just think it, like, comes down to the couple or the throuple or whoever's in the dynamic. And, like, I think it would be pretty tough. I don't know.
- [50:00]
A
Where'd you go to college?
- [50:01]
B
Sarah Lawrence, baby.
- [50:03]
A
Sarah Lawrence?
- [50:03]
B
Yeah.
- [50:04]
A
Is that out in la?
- [50:06]
B
No, know it's. It's in Bronxville.
- [50:08]
A
Oh, wait, what am I thinking of?
- [50:10]
B
I don't know why I just snapped. It was in. It's in Bronxville. It's just a short train right away.
- [50:16]
A
Is it small?
- [50:17]
B
It's super small, super queer. It was amazing. I loved it.
- [50:22]
A
I went to school, a small liberal arts school in upstate New York.
- [50:25]
B
It's cool. What's cool?
- [50:26]
A
Union College.
- [50:27]
B
Nice. I think I actually went to some parties there, probably. That's so fun. So, I mean, it's only like each other.
- [50:33]
A
Yeah. It's only like two and a half hours away from here, so I was like, yeah, quick.
- [50:39]
B
I loved college. It was amazing. I feel like I learned so much.
- [50:42]
A
Really. I feel like what I'm doing now, I don't know if I needed college.
- [50:46]
B
I know you've said that before.
- [50:48]
A
I. But it was not an option not to do college.
- [50:51]
B
Yeah. Your dad was very.
- [50:53]
A
My dad was like, you're getting a college education. And I was a classics major, art history minor. And now I'm just an influencer podcaster. So I don't know how that pipeline made sense, but it all goes.
- [51:03]
B
I. I think it all informs each other.
- [51:05]
A
Yeah.
- [51:06]
B
And I don't think it necessarily matters what you study in college, but I think it does teach you how to think, and that's what I'm grateful for. And I don't know, even just like, in terms of romantic relationships, I learned so much.
- [51:19]
A
Yeah. I also think it's about a lot of learning about relationships, whether that's platonic relationships or romantic relationships. You learn a lot in those four years, and I feel like you have to be in that kind of social setting where it's like, the first time you're living without your parents and you're kind of out of the nest and you're, like, being thrown into situations that you have to learn how to navigate.
- [51:40]
B
Yeah. And just, like, be accountable with your friends. Like, talk about things. Feed yourself. Like, so many. Go on time to class. I have two sisters in college right now and, like, reliving it with them, I'm like, wow, college is actually so hard. Like, I don't know, like, especially freshman year. Oh, my God. Yeah.
- [51:57]
A
Like, I hated freshman year.
- [52:00]
B
My sister's, like, loving it, and I'm like, that's awesome for you. But I also, like, don't relate because I. I think it was hard.
- [52:06]
A
Hard? Yeah, it was hard. And I also went into college with a boyfriend, which I actually did too. Really? What was. What do you think about that? People that are going into college that are.
- [52:18]
B
We broke up two weeks before my freshman year.
- [52:21]
A
I think we did too.
- [52:22]
B
Okay. Twins.
- [52:23]
A
20. But I just. It doesn't work. I feel like boys. He had too much temptation at the college he was at, and I. It was just like, you're. You're juggling too many balls.
- [52:34]
B
I think what was hard about our breakup is that he went to Columbia and I went to Sarah Lawrence. So, like, we were actually close enough to make it work. So it's kind of like this thing where we, like, broke up, but it was like, why? Yeah. And then I think it was, like, such a good thing, though, to, like. I saw this TikTok of Rachel Sennett actually just talking about Andre Shane where she's like, I'm very pro breakups. It's, like, so good for you. Like, you learn so much. And that's really how I felt at the beginning of college where it's like, like, you go in and you're, like, kind of sad and heartbroken, and so you're actually, like, so energized, and you're just like, want to make the most and go every single night and, like, talk to everyone. And I met all my best friends at orientation. Like, I don't know. I think that time in my life was fueled by the breakup in, like, a magical way because it, like, kind.
- [53:20]
A
Of forced you to, like, push yourself outside of your comfort zone, zone, make new friends, meet new people.
- [53:25]
B
I think especially now, it's so easy to, like, be on FaceTime with your boyfriend in your dorm room. But it was like, I had the exact opposite experience. I, like, like, literally, like, it was great.
- [53:34]
A
Like, I. Yeah. How I handled breakups, like, was kind of similar. I would just be like, I need to get off my phone and just, like, go out and distract myself. Because I feel like distraction is so important when you're going through a breakup.
- [53:44]
B
Yeah. But I really relate to what Rachel was saying where she's like. She was like, I am so pro breakup. Like, it's always good.
- [53:51]
A
Yeah. And the glow up after. I feel like everyone has a post relationship, like, breakup glow up too.
- [53:57]
B
Totally. And like, you. You become so close with your friends again.
- [54:00]
A
Yeah.
- [54:01]
B
I don't know.
- [54:02]
A
I agree.
- [54:02]
B
Friends person.
- [54:03]
A
What's something about modern dating you wish more people were honest about?
- [54:07]
B
Oh, I think that people. I think people just need to be honest about where they're at. And no one wants to be. Like, I think, like, this whole, like, it's cool to play hard to get is so lame.
- [54:18]
A
It's like, yeah, I'm learning.
- [54:22]
B
But, like, I also. I also, like, respect everyone's process. And I think also, like, people can bring things out of. You do. But I think, like, if you're just like, hey, I'm, like, actually just looking for casual sex, like, you should just say it.
- [54:33]
A
Yeah. I mean, I'm pretty pro that I'm not, like. I'm not, like, pro. I'm just, like, pro. Whatever works for you in this point in your life.
- [54:43]
B
Yeah.
- [54:44]
A
But I don't think casual sex, unless, like, unless you're being safe, should be, like, looked down upon too heavily. Do you think there's such thing as casual dating?
- [54:56]
B
Yeah. We published this. Okay. The Margaret Quailey issue. So not this one, but the one before, which was our sixth anniversary, we coined this term called the new casual, which is hot sex. No. Sleepovers.
- [55:06]
A
That's what I say.
- [55:07]
B
What do you think?
- [55:08]
A
I think sleepovers kind of make it too serious.
- [55:12]
B
Yeah. And. Well, you're like, sleepovers are for gossip, which I actually like.
- [55:15]
A
And pillow talk.
- [55:16]
B
Yeah.
- [55:17]
A
Like, that's what the pillow talk is, where you form those emotional bonds and inside jokes.
- [55:22]
B
I don't think it's necessarily that, but I think, like, I think there's something there. Like, it definitely is the new casual.
- [55:29]
A
Yes.
- [55:30]
B
The sleepover makes it not casual. And that is something we wrote about explicitly. But I think as long as you're communicating with that, as long as you're.
- [55:38]
A
Both on the same page and, like, not one person wants to have the sleepover, but Like, I'm pretty upfront, like, not wanting to do the sleepover thing.
- [55:46]
B
But also, do you think both people are, like, being like, I don't want to have a sleepover, but both people always want to have a sleepover.
- [55:51]
A
Well, that's what point is. People should be more honest. So, like, if you want the sleepover, just say you want the sleepover. But if you don't, then say you don't.
- [55:58]
B
Yeah, it's. It's an interesting concept.
- [56:00]
A
I think people are still very scared about hurting the other person's feelings, too, still in this day and age. And that's, like, what the issue with being super honest with people is. I feel like they're probably just worried they're gonna hurt the other person's feelings if they're too blunt. Yeah.
- [56:15]
B
Or it's just, like, scary. No one wants to be like, yeah, I'm actually looking for something more. Even though I met you 25 minutes ago. Go.
- [56:22]
A
Is that what you do, though?
- [56:23]
B
No, no, no. But I'm just saying, like, I do think there's a world in which, like. Yeah. You just have to be okay with, like, learning each other on a slow pace and being honest. Like, hey, I'm actually not down for sleepovers right now, but maybe in the future.
- [56:39]
A
Yeah.
- [56:40]
B
It just sounds so clinical, and it's like, I think what we see in pop culture, like, it's not hot to be like, actually, I'm looking to have a sleepover in six to eight weeks. Like, you know what I mean? Like, who wants to talk like that? No, but I think there's can do it. That's, like, flirty and fun.
- [56:55]
A
Yeah.
- [56:56]
B
I don't know.
- [56:57]
A
I mean, it's all trial and error. I just feel like. Dating in your twenties. What do you think dating in your twenties is very. What's, like, the biggest difference between dating in your 20s and dating in your 30s?
- [57:07]
B
Everyone's very direct. Dating. Okay. I'm trying to think. In my 20s, I felt like, well, no one around me was getting married yet. I don't know if that just has something to do with my, like, friends group. I think there are lots of places where people are. So it felt less serious. But again, like, as the token, like, young, fun friend.
- [57:30]
A
Yeah.
- [57:31]
B
I actually have the pressure on my back to be, like, the fun one who's, like, friends with everyone.
- [57:35]
A
Yeah.
- [57:35]
B
At the wedding. So I don't know. Like, I think I have a very specific experience. I also, like, truly did prioritize my career. So that also is, like, another added layer where I just like. Like I've never once in my life, like, gone out being like, I need to be married by a certain age. Like, I just don't feel that pressure.
- [57:51]
A
So you've never felt that pressure at all?
- [57:54]
B
Maybe subconsciously, but not. No. Like, even my family, like, they're not like, oh, Willow, why aren't you married? Everyone's like, yeah, duh.
- [58:01]
A
I mean, I have a sister that's 15 months older than me. Completely different than me. Introverted, sober Pilates instructor.
- [58:10]
B
Wow.
- [58:10]
A
I know. Like complete, literally 180. Like, very shy and very, very sweet. Not that I'm not sweet, but she has a live in boyfriend. Like, they're about to get engaged and we're like only 15 months apart. And I. To me, I'm like, it. Part of me is like a little like, oh, crap. Like, am I. Should I be in that phase of my life right now? But then another part of me is like, I'm doing so many things right now in my career and. Do you think that people find it hard to balance the bowl?
- [58:41]
B
Yeah, I think that's like a tale as. As tall as time. Like, it's always hard to do it all, but I also think, like, when you meet the right person, it's like, just makes sense and it's fine.
- [58:54]
A
Yeah.
- [58:55]
B
I don't know. I just really, like, don't feel the same pressure I think a lot of my peers do about finding someone. Like, I. Yeah, I don't know. It's just like, I think a lot of it also is like, being queer. Like, like queer people. Like, we do find our people later because we only started, like, I only started really, like, being queer or like saying I was queer in college. So I don't know. I wonder if that has something to do with it. I just think there's like, one. There's no one size fits all. There's no like, perfect path. You find your person what you're supposed to. It feels right. People get divorced many times. Like, everyone is just like, on their own journey, professionally and personally. And if there's one thing I've learned from running Cosmo, it's like, like romantic relationships, like, they're something you always have to work on. Same with your friendships. Like, and it's all like, coming to the same place. And another thing about breakups that I think really put a lot into perspective for me is like, when you. When you end a relationship, I think there's like this misconception that, like, it's over and, like, it was horrible, but, like, really, you learn so much and you bring that into your next relationship. And so I always say, like, even if a relationship ended, it's not like you're starting from zero. True.
- [60:06]
A
No. Yeah, I always say this too. Like, even if it's an end to something, I. You always have to look at the glass half full and be like, what did I. What lesson did I learn that I can take into my next relationship? Whether that's a platonic relationship, like, you always feel like you gained something and not lost something.
- [60:22]
B
Totally agree.
- [60:23]
A
And I always say that. Let's talk about Love Willa, your newsletter. I want to. I want to take a look. Yes. I'm so excited. I loved our interview that we did together.
- [60:32]
B
So fun.
- [60:33]
A
How do you think you're able to connect differently with a newsletter versus on social media?
- [60:37]
B
Yeah, we have so many platforms and I love it. So we have blind date, which is like, you go on a blind date with me and we basically, like, we look at old relationship advice from Cosmo and like, see how it age. Sometimes they're hilarious, sometimes they don't age well. But that's like what makes it interesting. Love Willa is my weekly newsletter where I basically go through like all the dating trends of the week or anything love related even, and talk about it. So, like, you know, last week was about like Trump's executive orders, how they're affecting ivf. The week before that, you know, we did. We've done a lot on like Cougar Talk actually, because that's been interesting trend. The week before that, I had Audrey Hober on, which was fun. Who writes like iconic summer songs about dating. So different, you know, different types of angles, but really it's like a roundup of love the week in love. And a lot of it comes from Tick tock. So. Yeah, that's why you're gonna be such a star on it.
- [61:36]
A
I know. I'm excited for that.
- [61:37]
B
You, like, set the trends.
- [61:38]
A
I mean, I just sometimes feel like I have hot takes about things and people are like, I don't know what you're talking about for this one, but I'm excited for that to come out.
- [61:46]
B
Yeah. Subscribe. It's so fun. And also if you're single, like, it's such a great place to like, see what's happening. Like, we did a whole debate about the coffee debate, actually, and I get so many responses.
- [61:56]
A
The coffee versus drinks.
- [61:57]
B
Yeah. Just being like, is it, you know, there's a side to the debate that's like, it's like cheap to just get A coffee date?
- [62:04]
A
Yeah.
- [62:04]
B
But I kind of was like, some people don't drink.
- [62:07]
A
So.
- [62:09]
B
And it's like, okay, like, sorry, we want to like, speak in broad daylight. So we were actually defending the coffee date.
- [62:14]
A
What is Gen Z like asking you most? I feel like people.
- [62:17]
B
Situationship. Situationship. Situation. Really? Yeah, they're just like, abolish situationships.
- [62:21]
A
And what do you say?
- [62:22]
B
I say situationships can teach you about what you don't want.
- [62:27]
A
I like that. Short and cute. Yeah.
- [62:28]
B
Or they can teach you great stuff. And then I'm like, send me the text. And then I look through them and a lot of times I'm like, yeah, this person sucks.
- [62:35]
A
You should just go through people's texts and be like, analyzing them.
- [62:38]
B
I. People send them to me all the time and I'm like, hey, I'm gonna say that this is a no go.
- [62:42]
A
Yeah.
- [62:43]
B
Usually it's like you just want someone else to tell you.
- [62:46]
A
Yeah.
- [62:47]
B
And I think a lot of times when you show someone texts, you're like, wait, but he likes me.
- [62:50]
A
You're like, looking for the benefit of the doubt.
- [62:52]
B
Exactly.
- [62:53]
A
But like, he was bus. Be like, but wait. Like, I think he probably worked late. He had a dinner, which is why he's texting me at 1am to come over.
- [62:59]
B
It's like, no, by the way, like, even in my busiest moments, like, if I have a crush, I'm texting someone back.
- [63:05]
A
Like, no, fine, if you want to do, you will.
- [63:07]
B
Yes.
- [63:08]
A
Point blank.
- [63:10]
B
Yeah, it's like, whatever. You don't have time. Like, sorry, I don't agree. Yeah, like, everyone has time.
- [63:15]
A
Everyone has time to send like a short little text.
- [63:18]
B
Also, like, you're on your phone all the time. Time. Everyone is.
- [63:21]
A
Everyone's on their phone all the time.
- [63:22]
B
So I agree. I also think, like, you don't have to text someone back all the time. But again, I think be upfront with what you want and what you're. You know, if someone's not texting you, like, be like, hey, you never freaking text me what's good. You can do it in a fun way. Like, it doesn't have to be so clinical.
- [63:39]
A
No, I agree with that. Do you have any upcoming articles, projects, any fun things you wanted to use while we're sitting here?
- [63:45]
B
Oh, my God, so much. So the online issue came out today. It really investigated our relationship with their phone and how it is like, become almost this like, romantic relationship in some ways. So we talked about it. Lauren Greenfield, who is the brilliant documentarian behind the book Girl Culture, I don't know if you've seen it. And she has like a big series on Hulu right now called Social Studies. She shot Ariana Greenblatt. Jake Shane wrote it. And we're really like documenting this moment in time where we're all doom scrolling to no end and it's affecting how we're experiencing romantic relationships. Inside the issue, we have a piece on ChatGPT. Not being your therapist would recommend.
- [64:25]
A
I'm learning so many new things today.
- [64:27]
B
It really, really, really should not be your therapist. What else is in there? It's so special. There's a couple projects I can't quite disclose, but Somber is on the COVID of Seventeen. That will be out by the time this comes out.
- [64:39]
A
How old is he?
- [64:41]
B
And he's 19. Let's fact check that. But I'm pretty sure he's 19.
- [64:45]
A
Okay.
- [64:45]
B
He's so.
- [64:46]
A
He's crushing it right now. I love him.
- [64:48]
B
He's crushing it. And basically on the COVID of Seventeen, they're very. It's in historically very selective about men. And so he's. We're kind of putting him on the Justin Bieber path and we're anointing him as this, like, male pop star. So very exciting. Check it out next week and yeah, no, thank you for having me. I'm so excited to have you on my newsletter.
- [65:05]
A
No, I'm so excited. This is like, I could have talked to you for hours. I feel like I need you as my new therapist, literally.
- [65:10]
B
Call me anytime.
- [65:11]
A
I'm going to be sending you screenshots later, but.
- [65:12]
B
And I'll be like, you don't want.
- [65:13]
A
To, but anyways, thank you so much for coming on.
- [65:17]
B
Thank you.
- [65:17]
A
And guys, I'll see you next week. Like, subscribe. You can watch me on YouTube. Listen to me on any other platform. Willa.
- [65:24]
B
Extra dirty.
- [65:25]
A
My queen.
- [65:25]
B
You're extra dirty.
- [65:26]
A
That was amazing.
- [65:27]
B
Thank you.
- [65:34]
A
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- [67:06]
B
The Case of the Missing Reese's it was me at the store with my mouth Motive.
- [67:15]
A
They're Reese's.
- [67:16]
B
What was I gonna do?
- [67:17]
A
Stop myself?
- [67:18]
B
Tune in next time to see if I do it again. Spoiler I will. Wow, that had everything Reese's Suspense Reese's.