Feel Better, Live More with Dr Rangan Chatterjee

Episode 598: How To Build & Maintain Successful Relationships & The Surprising Ways That Technology Can Help with Mo Gawdat

Date: November 26, 2025
Guests: Mo Gawdat (former Chief Business Officer of Google X, bestselling author)
Host: Dr Rangan Chatterjee

Episode Overview

This episode explores the nature of love and relationships in the modern world—and how technology, specifically a new AI called Emma, could radically improve how we form, understand, and nurture loving relationships. Mo Gawdat returns for a deeply personal and practical conversation with Dr Chatterjee, ranging from the shortcomings of contemporary dating apps to the mathematical complexity of compatibility, and why self-awareness is the foundation of meaningful connection. Together, they discuss how Emma aims to revolutionize not just matchmaking, but self-understanding, relationship maintenance, and even the way AI understands humanity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Vision for Emma: AI That Understands Love

• Mo Gawdat describes Emma, an AI designed to “fix two of the biggest problems: love and relationships.”
  • “Of everything I've done, I've never in my life felt closer to actually fixing something in the world. Emma, I think, is gonna fix something. It's an attempt to teach AI about what makes us human, which is love.” – Mo Gawdat [00:01]
• Emma isn’t a replacement for human relationships, but a supportive “awareness guide” to help individuals know themselves and nurture genuine love.

Love vs. Relationships: Definitions & Problems

• Love and relationships are not the same thing.
  • “Love is very easy to feel, but very difficult to feel it for the right person if you don't know who you are... Relationships as a definition from an engineer, a mathematician like myself, is the most complex mathematical model on the planet.” – Mo Gawdat [09:11]
• Modern societal structures and dating apps are often “rigged against lovers,” monetizing ongoing failure and superficiality.
• Traditional structures (like arranged marriage) differ in their focus on compatibility rather than romance; Western aspirations are more romantic, but the methods to achieve them are flawed.

Why Are Modern Relationships So Hard?

• Shocking Stats:

  • 33% of adults have never had a committed relationship.
  • Average length is now 2.3 years.
  • Divorce rates: 1 in 2 in the West, 1 in 100 in rural India.
  • 95–96% of romantic relationships end.
  • Infidelity rates, especially among women, have rapidly risen.

• Systemic issues:

  • Dating apps profit from users not finding love: “The system is literally rigged against you.” – Mo Gawdat [14:27]
  • The paradox of choice, “meat market syndrome,” and dating fatigue lead to burnout, cynicism, and settling for less than ideal partners.

How Emma Works: A Tech Solution to Human Issues

• Emma is a collaborative of AIs, obsessed with understanding you and supporting authentic connection.

• For singles:

  • Emma gets to know you deeply through open-ended conversation, not just checkboxes.
  • Recommends matches based on compatibility across multiple deep factors, not just looks or superficial interests.

  “It actually gets to know you enough, gets to talk to you enough, gets to help you know yourself enough to be able to tell you, I found one guy or one lady that matches you.” – Mo Gawdat [07:45]

• For couples:

  • Emma can be a relationship coach, prompting reflection, guiding communication, and fostering self-awareness.
  • Emma can work with both partners together, or with just one, and adapts to their unique aspirations.
  • Not judgmental, but does hold you accountable: “She will hold you accountable... not there to agree with you at all.” – Mo Gawdat [24:10]

• Emma learns and evolves:

  • After dates or events, Emma checks in, helps reflect, offers conversation starters, and uses what she learns to improve future guidance.

Key Concepts in Compatibility and Dating

The "Perfects" Framework

Mo explains the "seven perfects" (PPRFCTS) sought in relationships:

• Passion
• Partnership
• Romance
• Friendship
• Companionship
• Tenderness
• Support
  [43:51]

The Law of Large Numbers

• The more criteria you set, the harder it is to find someone who matches all of them: “It’s not 10 plus 10 plus 10, it’s 10 multiplied by 10... so it's one in a million.” – Mo Gawdat [41:53]

The Hidden Harm of the Dating App Experience

• Multiple failed dates are not neutral: “Each one absolutely is a little infiltration into your soul.” – Dr Chatterjee [48:50]
• “When you go through dating fatigue and burnout, you eventually settle... How many times in our life do we have a year and a half to waste?” – Mo Gawdat [49:14]

From Arranged Marriage to AI-Assisted Pairing

• Emma takes the deep, attentive analysis of arranged marriage but applies it to modern aspirations, using AI’s ability to process complexity.
• “Use the traditional method to fuel the modern aspirations.” – Mo Gawdat [59:58]

Emma as a Tool for All Kinds of Relationships

• Helps singles not-yet-ready-for-love to work on self-awareness.
• Can support people in relationships, or help those going through amicable breakups ("Grace Mode").
• “If you know yourself and love yourself, it’s so much easier to find love for you.” – Mo Gawdat [72:04]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Love and AI:

  • “If Emma itself succeeds, we would have saved the world.” – Mo Gawdat [00:01]
  • “We have created with AI a completely autonomous form of intelligence that is like and will beat human intelligence in every possible way.” – Mo Gawdat [04:29]
  • “If Emma is one member in that brain... and Emma can present how much we crave [love]... then I may have actually saved the world.” – Mo Gawdat [84:56]

• On What People Actually Want:

  • “[People say] they're out looking for love, but what we're actually looking for is a relationship... a relationship is described by seven things that we normally refer to as perfects.” – Mo Gawdat [41:53]

• On the Harm of Modern Dating Apps:

  • “The dating system of the West is rigged against the lovers.” – Mo Gawdat [14:27]
  • “Going on those 10 dates... may have actually caused harm... Each one absolutely is a little infiltration into your soul.” – Dr Chatterjee [48:50]

• On Changing the Lens:

  • “If you change the way you interact with that relationship, the whole relationship changes immediately.” – Dr Chatterjee [81:46]

• Final Wisdom:

  • “Love, compassion, and gratitude. These are the three ingredients. Anyone who manages to find those in their life will be fine.” – Mo Gawdat [88:43]

Important Timestamps & Segments

• [00:01] — Mo on the purpose of Emma and AI learning love
• [09:11] — Differentiating love and relationships
• [12:33] — Modern relationships by the numbers (divorce, commitment, childlessness)
• [14:27] — How the dating industry is "rigged" against real connection
• [21:53] — Emma as an “awareness guide” and not just a coach or therapist
• [43:51] — The seven "perfects" we search for in relationships
• [48:50] — The hidden negative effects of repeated unsuccessful dates
• [59:58] — Marrying the attentive analysis of arranged marriage to Western aspirations
• [62:29] — Emma as a gentle therapist for trauma, pattern recognition, and communication
• [69:44] — Emma for people in relationships, not just seeking love
• [73:58] — Emma’s "Grace" mode: helping people break up with empathy and maturity
• [79:13] — Emma as a way to challenge toxic beliefs and scripts about love
• [88:43] — Mo’s final recommendation: love, compassion, and gratitude

The Original Language & Tone

The conversation is highly personal, compassionate, and optimistic, with Mo Gawdat blending technical explanations and emotional wisdom, and Dr Chatterjee offering relatable scepticism and curiosity. Both share vulnerabilities from their own relationship histories, creating an atmosphere of openness and possibility.

Conclusion & Key Takeaways

• Emma is more than a dating app: She’s a nonjudgmental awareness guide—part therapist, part matchmaker, part relationship educator—offering personalized, accountable, and emotionally literate support.
• Modern relationship struggles are deeply systemic: Many problems stem from distorted dating systems, unrealistic beliefs, and a lack of self-awareness.
• Emma’s mission is universal: Whether you are single, partnered, struggling, or simply seeking personal growth, Emma aims to help you better know yourself, communicate, and build meaningful relationships.
• AI as Humanity’s Mirror: Emma is not just about helping people—it’s about teaching machines what truly makes us human: love, connection, and care for one another.

Learn More / Get Involved

• Website and Waiting List: emma.love (register for updates and early access)
• For couples and singles, in all stages of relationships
• Emma to be released first in the UK; global rollout to follow

“Everyone wants love. Everyone can love more. Everyone can enjoy their love more.”
—Mo Gawdat [87:48]

If you take one thing from this episode, let it be this:
Self-awareness, honest communication, and a willingness to challenge our own beliefs are the true foundations of love—Emma is simply a tool to help us on that journey.