Forever Ago is on Spring Break this week! Enjoy this saucy showdown from our friends at Smash Boom Best!

Summary

Forever Ago – Special Spring Break Episode: Ketchup vs. Ranch Showdown

Release Date: May 7, 2025
Host/Author: American Public Media
Podcast Series: Forever Ago® – A history show for the whole family by Brains On

---

Episode Overview

In this special Spring Break episode of Forever Ago, host Joy and producer Nico Gonzalez Whistler take a hiatus, handing the spotlight over to their friends at Smash Boom Best. This edition features a tantalizing debate between two beloved condiments: Ketchup and Ranch. Hosted by Molly Bloom, the episode promises a “saucy showdown” filled with humor, creativity, and insightful arguments, making it a must-listen for condiment enthusiasts and history buffs alike.

---

Introduction to the Show

The episode kicks off with Molly Bloom introducing Smash Boom Best, a debate-centered show where two contenders are pitted against each other for the title of "best." In this installment, Ranch is defended by comedian and writer Davon Bland, while Ketchup is championed by Merk Nguyen. Caroline, from Mendota Heights, Minnesota, serves as the judge, bringing her creative flair to the proceedings.

Molly Bloom (00:00):
"Hi, I'm Molly Bloom and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best."

---

Declaration of Greatness

Ranch Takes the Stage

Davon Bland passionately advocates for Ranch, highlighting its versatility and emotional connection.

Davon Bland (04:16):
"Ranch is a delicious dressing and dip that has stood the test of time. With its creamy but slightly tangy flavor, it is America's favorite salad dressing."

He shares a nostalgic story about how Ranch helped him enjoy vegetables as a child, emphasizing its role in fostering friendships and togetherness. The inclusion of Randy the Cool Ranch Kid, a playful persona, adds a humorous touch to his declaration.

Randy the Cool Ranch Kid (06:29):
"Stephen and his wife eventually bought a ranch that they named Hidden Valley, where they sold the dressing. Hidden Valley Ranch is still sold in stores today."

Ketchup Counters

Merk Nguyen responds by tracing Ketchup’s deep historical roots and its global influence, presenting it as the ultimate comfort condiment.

Merk Nguyen (09:07):
"In English, we call it fish sauce. Now, you might be thinking a fishy catch is a little. I disagree. It's rich in smell and history dating back to 300 BC."

He creatively connects Ketchup’s origins from Southeast Asian fish sauces to its modern-day ubiquity, showcasing its adaptability across various cuisines worldwide.

---

Rebuttals

Ranch Strikes Back

Davon Bland counters Merk’s points by addressing Ketchup’s acidity and sugar content, questioning its health implications.

Davon Bland (13:40):
"You're telling me that ketchup has so much acidity in it that it could take rust off things. That is, you don't want that inside your body."

Ketchup Defends Its Throne

Merk Nguyen retorts by likening Ketchup to the evolving Pokémon, symbolizing its enduring popularity and versatility.

Merk Nguyen (14:11):
"But ketchup is like the Pokemon of sauces. It gets stronger and stronger with each iteration."

---

Micro Round: Shakespearean Monologues

Both debaters showcase their creativity through Shakespearean-style monologues, adding a theatrical flair to the debate.

Merk Nguyen delivers an elaborate ode to Ketchup, intertwining historical references with pop culture nods.

Merk Nguyen (19:37):
"Attention to all citizens of Bland Land. I apologize for how society's been run by former ruler Ranch's ravenous hands..."

Davon Bland responds with a lyrical homage to Ranch, infusing poetic language that highlights its superior taste and cultural significance.

Davon Bland (21:23):
"Ranch a salad dressed a tang for thine own tongue. Verily, I seek the ranch, my search begun."

---

Sneak Attack: Fashion Line Challenge

In an improvised round, debaters conceptualize fashion lines inspired by their condiments.

Davon Bland envisions Ranch Magazine, featuring cowboy chic with a touch of whimsy.

Davon Bland (24:16):
"We're talking leather cowboy hats... little lassos that you could grab your ranch with, but they're all bedazzled with diamonds and things like that."

Merk Nguyen introduces Ketchup Chromatica, a vibrant and versatile fashion line reflecting Ketchup’s diverse applications.

Merk Nguyen (25:22):
"Ketchup Chromatica. This Glistening red treasure packs a powerful punch... ketchup crocs... and ketchup night guards."

---

Final Round: Six-Word Slogans

Both debaters succinctly encapsulate their condiment's essence in six words.

Merk Nguyen (27:18):
"Ketchup. The ultimate Pokemon of sauces."

Davon Bland (27:31):
"Ranch Helps food taste better."

---

Judgment and Conclusion

After a tightly contested debate, Caroline awards the victory to Ranch, citing its humorous approach and engaging storytelling.

Caroline (28:03):
"Ranch."

The episode concludes with heartfelt shouts of appreciation from both debaters, reflecting mutual respect despite the competition.

Davon Bland (29:01):
"I think Merk did a great job."

Merk Nguyen (29:38):
"Aww, Davon. I just want to say, you know, you are a legend."

---

Notable Quotes

• Molly Bloom (03:26):
  "Every debate consists of four the declaration, the micro round, the sneak attack, and the final six."

• Davon Bland (04:16):
  "Ranch is all about friendship, togetherness and making sure folks enjoy what they eat."

• Merk Nguyen (09:07):
  "Today we use ketchup on so many American favorites like meatloaf, burgers, fries, and hot dogs."

• Caroline (28:32):
  "Ranch is fun because it was, like, funnier."

---

Final Thoughts

This episode of Forever Ago seamlessly blends the educational mission of the series with the entertaining format of Smash Boom Best. By delving into the history, cultural impact, and personal anecdotes surrounding Ketchup and Ranch, listeners gain a multifaceted understanding of these everyday condiments. The engaging debate, enriched with creativity and humor, underscores how seemingly ordinary items like sauces can have fascinating backstories and significant roles in our lives.

For those eager to decide for themselves, Smash Boom Best invites listeners to vote online, ensuring that the battle continues beyond the episode.

Head to smashboom.org to cast your vote and join the conversation!

---

Special Thanks to:

• Hosts: Molly Bloom, Joy, Nico Gonzalez Whistler
• Debaters: Davon Bland (Ranch), Merk Nguyen (Ketchup)
• Judge: Caroline from Mendota Heights
• Production Team: Anna Wegel, Aron Walda Selassie, Jess, Dueler, Derek Ramirez, Shayla Farzan, Sandon Totten, Rebecca Rand, Rosie Dupont, Rachel Breese, Anna Goldfield, Ruby Guthrie, Lauren Humpert, Joshua Ray, Mark Sanchez, Charlotte Traver
• Executive Producers: Beth Pearlman, Chandra Kavati, Joanne Griffith
• Announcer: Marley Foyer Worker Otto

Stay tuned for more exciting debates and historical explorations in future episodes of Forever Ago!

Transcript

[Molly Bloom]

Hey, Forever Ago friends, it's Joy. And this is a message for you adults. I want to take a minute to talk to you about public media. You may have heard that public media is facing federal budget cuts, but what you might not know is that Forever Ago and all your favorite Brains on Universe podcasts are part of the public media ecosystem. If you want to protect your favorite public media podcasts like this one, visit americanpublicmedia.org action to learn how you can help. Hey, forever girlfriends. It's producer Nico Gonzalez Whistler. We're taking a little spring break this week, but we'll be back next week with a brand new episode. In the meantime, enjoy this saucy showdown from our smashboom besties. Joy will be debating on smashboom Best next week, so don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts from the.

[Merk Nguyen]

Brains behind Brains on it's Smash Boom.

[Caroline]

Best, the show for people with big opinions.

[Molly Bloom]

Hi, I'm Molly Bloom and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate tastes real good in a little cup or a packet. Grab your fries, carrots, wings and tots. Because it's ketchup versus Ranch. We've got comedian and writer Davon Bland here to defend Team Ranch.

[Davon Bland]

No stress in time for Ranch.

[Molly Bloom]

Dress and voice actor Merk Nguyen is here to fight for ketchup.

[Merk Nguyen]

I will squeeze the day to me. Totally stoked to defend this ruby red delight.

[Molly Bloom]

And here to judge it all is Caroline from Mendota Heights, Minnesota. Caroline loves to make costumes, craft, and go scuba diving. Hi, Caroline.

[Caroline]

Hi, Molly.

[Molly Bloom]

So you like to make costumes. Can you tell us about any recent costumes you've made?

[Caroline]

So I made a Draculaura cosplay for last Halloween and then I also went to Twin Cities Con in it. It was made out of kind of like a spandexy thing. I got to dye the wig and paint my nails and all that kind of stuff and do my makeup.

[Molly Bloom]

Very cool. Tell me about the character you dressed up as.

[Caroline]

Draculaura. She is a Monster High doll. She is the daughter of Dracula. She has split dyed hair. She has pink hair on one side and black hair on the other side and I don't know. She's cool.

[Molly Bloom]

Nice. Very, very fun. Okay. Do you have any advice for our debaters today?

[Caroline]

Make bad puns, but make em funny bad. Not like bad bad.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay.

[Caroline]

Also musical theater references. I'm a musical theater girly.

[Molly Bloom]

All right.

[Merk Nguyen]

Love. Love.

[Molly Bloom]

So just bad enough puns. Musical theater if you can.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Molly Bloom]

Wonderful. Will Caroline side with Da'von or Merk? Only time will tell. But first, here are the rules of the game. Every debate consists of four the declaration, the micro round, the sneak attack, and the final six. After each round, our judge Caroline will award points to the team that impresses her the most. But she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate. Listeners, we want you to judge too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom.org and vote for whichever team you think won. Davon, Merc and Caroline, are you ready?

[Merk Nguyen]

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[Molly Bloom]

Yeah. Aye. Aye. Then it's time for the declaration of greatness. In this round, our debaters will present a well crafted immersive argument in favor of their side. Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. We flipped a coin and Daevon, you're up first. Tell us why you're in raptures over ranch.

[Davon Bland]

Hi folks. I'm here to talk about the wonders of ranch dressing. But first I'd like to introduce you to a friend of mine who's a bit of an expert expert on the subject. Hit it, Randy.

[Randy the Cool Ranch Kid]

Well, my name is Randy the cool ranch kid. Let's jam about something awesome somebody did with ideas Growing like a tree with a branch. It's time to talk about the incredible ranch.

[Davon Bland]

Thanks, Randy. Ranch is a delicious dressing and dip that has stood the test of time. With its creamy but slightly tangy flavor, it is America's favorite salad dressing. Beyond its great taste, ranch dressing is all about friendship, togetherness and making sure folks enjoy what they eat.

[Randy the Cool Ranch Kid]

No stressing, it's the dressing that everyone loves on a salad with your chicken tenders can't get enough. Gather round, lend us your ears and tell all your friends of the glory filled story about delectable Ranch.

[Davon Bland]

When I was a kid, I wasn't super into eating my veggies. I knew they were good for me, but something was missing. Then one day I went to a friend's house and he had some broccoli and he was dipping it in this sauce, this ranch dressing. I took a taste and was amazed. From that moment on, eating my veggies was easy. Ranch is a complimentary flavor. It's perfect on a lot of things and is great for sharing and has been since it was invented. In fact, it got famous due to an act of friendship by its inventor. Story has it that when ranch dressing creator Stephen Henson made food for his co workers and friends, he would offer them a new type of dressing.

[Merk Nguyen]

Thanks for having me for dinner, Steven. Of course.

[Molly Bloom]

I love cooking for all my co workers and friends.

[Merk Nguyen]

Everything looks great. I think I'll start with the salad. Whoa. What is this? It's amazing.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, just some lettuce and some greens.

[Merk Nguyen]

No, not that.

[Molly Bloom]

The dressing.

[Merk Nguyen]

It's amazing.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, that. It's something I've been working on to make the meals more interesting. I'm glad you like it.

[Merk Nguyen]

Like it? I love it. I need a jar. Wait, no. 10 jars of this to take home.

[Randy the Cool Ranch Kid]

His name was Steven Henson. He was working in Alaska. He made some friends and they had to ask him. Steven, your dinners are amazing. Oh, what a blessing. What's on the salad? Ranch dressing. The dressing was a hit with his family and friends. He made it for everybody again and again.

[Davon Bland]

Stephen and his wife eventually bought a ranch that they named Hidden Valley, where they sold the dressing. Hidden Valley Ranch is still sold in stores today. In fact, three out of four households have it. In their pantry today, you can find ranch flavored chips. You can use it as a dip for pizzas. It even goes well with buffalo wings, adding a cooling effect that pairs well with many spicy foods. Ranch is America's favorite flavor. With Americans consuming over 100 million bottles of this stuff each year, spending way more money on ranch than ketchup.

[Randy the Cool Ranch Kid]

100 million bottles of Ranch on the wall. People love it so much, it can never fall. No Playing Possum Ranch is awesome. And that's a fact. Talked about it so much, I think it's time for a snack.

[Davon Bland]

I think you've got the right idea, Randy. Let's have a snack together. After all, Ranch is all about friendship.

[Randy the Cool Ranch Kid]

Snack time. That's what I'm talking about. Randy the cool Ranch kid, over and out.

[Molly Bloom]

Wow. Randy the Ranch rapper. How did you get him for your declaration of greatness?

[Davon Bland]

I had to pull some strings, but it worked out in the end.

[Molly Bloom]

Incredible. Caroline, what stood out to you about DA Vaughan's declaration of greatness?

[Caroline]

Um, Randy reminded me of Thomas Jefferson from Hamilton. And as I said, I'm a musical theater girly and I'm like Hamilton. And also the like, veggie thing where you don't want to eat your veggies and then you dip them and then you're like, oh, it's not that bad.

[Molly Bloom]

Very good. All right, Merk, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why Ranch is Rancid. You've got 30 seconds and your time starts now.

[Merk Nguyen]

Okay, Ranchety. Was spit in bars. But I will say, anything you can dip ranch in, you can dip ketchup in too. Have you not had ketchup with your carrots or your pizza with your ketchup? I know it's unusual, but don't clock it until you try it. Also, people are spending more money on ranch because people give ketchup away for free in packets. They don't do that for ranch because they're stingy with that stuff. Ranch will also spoil overnight, even if it is dairy free. And ketchup doesn't spoil as fast. And sauce cups that ranch comes in, I mean, other than the bottle, you know, they take up more room in the tr. Is that good for the environment?

[Molly Bloom]

Whoa.

[Davon Bland]

But ranch is delicious, and that's why people want it more.

[Molly Bloom]

Hmm. All right, Merk, tell us about all those people who like ketchup. It's your turn. Tell us why ketchup is the boss of sauce.

[Merk Nguyen]

Hey, you're just in time. I'm about to try out this new TV streaming service. Ketchup. All ketchup content.

[Molly Bloom]

See, this red sauce is the very best. It's traveled far and wide. Can be eaten with, like, anything. It's a complimentary side.

[Merk Nguyen]

Ooh, what else we got?

[Molly Bloom]

Yeah, so I just polish my brass with it. You just squeeze a little bit on there. Little dab will do ya. And then you get your cloth ketchup y and you rub it on in.

[Merk Nguyen]

Amazing. Ooh, what's this? How about we catch this cooking up a notch, huh?

[Molly Bloom]

On the meatloaf.

[Merk Nguyen]

Bam. Baked beans. Bam. Sloppy joes.

[Randy the Cool Ranch Kid]

Bam.

[Merk Nguyen]

Got a ketchup.

[Davon Bland]

All.

[Merk Nguyen]

That'S quality entertainment Ketchup. The ever evolving, multipurpose, comforting condiment that's the smash. Boom. Best ketchup has roots all over the world. Seriously, hop on board my ship and I'll catch you up on the history of ketchup. We're sailing over to Southeast Asia. I want to show you a special sauce that helped pave the way for ketchup. It's known as patis in the Philippines, Nam pla in Thailand, and nuoc mam in Vietnam. In English, we call it fish sauce. Now, you might be thinking a fishy catch is a little. I disagree. It's rich in smell and history dating back to 300 BC. Like other salty foods, it could last for months. People didn't start calling it ketchup until nearly 2,000 years later when people in southern China started eating this salty sauce from southeast Asia. They called it kee chap ko chap, or Koitsup in Hokkien. Chinese. The pronunciation stuck all the way through the 1600s, when Dutch and English traders brought this rocking sauce home with them. And speaking of rocking, mind if we dock this boat now? I'm getting seasick. In the 18th century, Europeans concocted ketchup with fermented walnuts, mushrooms, and oysters. But about 100 years later, in 1812, tomatoes entered the recipe, and the rest is delishery. Today we use ketchup on so many American favorites like meatloaf, burgers, fries, and hot dogs. But this ruby red beauty is a fave elsewhere, too. In Japan, it's on omurice. In Germany, it's in currywurst. And it doesn't have to be red. There's green tomato ketchup in Quebec. And a catchy thing about ketchup is that it can be used for other things besides eating, thanks to its tomatoes, salt and vinegar. You can use it to polish brass, detarnished license plates and clean old tools.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, no.

[Merk Nguyen]

My wrench is rusted. That's better. Not only is ketchup versatile, it's also comforting. Close your eyes for a minute and think of one of your favorite meals. For me, it's my mom's home cooked ketchup noodles. It makes me think of being a kid again, sitting at the table with my older siblings. The smell of tangy, slightly sweet ketchup in the air. It was my mom serving us love in the form of a meal. Chances are ketchup is a big part of your life too. Like a dependable friend. It's always there. In a red squeezy bottle at a diner, in the fridge, at your house, in an emergency. Stash of packets from a burger place you keep nearby for your fries. Ketchup is always around. Reliable, delicious, internationally beloved, and unbeatably cozy. Ketchup, the smashboom best chup.

[Molly Bloom]

A very heartfelt declaration full of lots of delistery there. Caroline, what stood out to you about Merk's argument?

[Caroline]

First of all, we had quite a few bad, funny puns in there, so that was good. Also, the Pokemon play on the day we're recording this, it's actually National Pokemon Day. So I was like, oh my God, it's National Pokemon Day. The Pokemon.

[Molly Bloom]

And Caroline is also wearing a Pokemon shirt.

[Caroline]

I am wearing a Pokemon shirt.

[Molly Bloom]

Excellent. All right, Daevon, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why we should dethrone this condiment king. You've got 30 seconds and your time starts now. Whoa.

[Davon Bland]

You're Telling me that ketchup has so much acidity in it that it could take rust off things. That is. You don't want that inside your body. Also, the sugar content in ketchup is so bad that that's the reason why it doesn't go bad so easily. Earlier, someone said that people give out ketchup for free. That's because nobody wants it. Uh, and also, what else it has, like, that's. That's it's not good for your teeth. That it is great that it has such a good history.

[Merk Nguyen]

You know what? But ketchup is like the Pokemon of sauces. It gets stronger and stronger with each iteration. You know, fish sauce to walnuts, tomatoes, and it's like the Alexander ketchup tin of sauces. You know what I mean? I'm sorry, Aaron Burr, sir, but that's just how it is.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, Caroline, it is time to award some points. Please give one point to the declaration of greatness that you liked best and one point to the rebuttal that won you over. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team's jokes make you giggle? Was another team's logic impeccable? Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to. Have you awarded your points?

[Caroline]

Yes. Yes, I have.

[Molly Bloom]

Awesome. Merk and Daevon. How are you two feeling so far?

[Merk Nguyen]

I'm feeling saucy. You know, I'm feeling spicy as a sriracha. Ketchup.

[Davon Bland]

I'm feeling pretty good. You know, I don't know the connection between Pokemon and Ranch, but I'm sure there is one. I'm sure there is one.

[Molly Bloom]

It is time for a quick break. Dip those wings and sauce those tots.

[Caroline]

And we'll be right back for more Smashboom Best.

[Merk Nguyen]

You're watching State of debate. Home to ragin rhetoric and awe inspiring argumentation. Hey, debaterinos. Taylor Lincoln here, and I'm Todd Douglas.

[Randy the Cool Ranch Kid]

And I'm getting very dizzy.

[Merk Nguyen]

Maybe it's because you're riding that merry go round.

[Randy the Cool Ranch Kid]

Oh, 100%. I thought it would be a good way to talk about the circular reasoning fallacy.

[Merk Nguyen]

A fallacy is an argument that's easy to tear down because it's not logical. The circular reasoning fallacy is when someone ends an argument with the same point as the one they started with.

[Randy the Cool Ranch Kid]

Yep, the argument just goes round and round. Like saying merry go rounds are fun. Because sometimes people have fun on merry go rounds.

[Molly Bloom]

Wee.

[Merk Nguyen]

Or cats are mean because they aren't nice.

[Randy the Cool Ranch Kid]

Or I shouldn't have spun so Fast because spinning this fast isn't something you should do.

[Merk Nguyen]

Or chocolate is tasty because it's super yummy.

[Randy the Cool Ranch Kid]

Or my stomach feels queasy because I'm nauseous.

[Merk Nguyen]

Oh, oh. Or how about, you shouldn't wear white after Labor Day because you're not supposed to.

[Randy the Cool Ranch Kid]

Or no barfing on State of Debate is bad, because if I did, that would be terrible.

[Merk Nguyen]

Actually, that would be terrible. For the love of logic, Todd, stop spinning.

[Randy the Cool Ranch Kid]

That's all the logical fallacy I can take today.

[Merk Nguyen]

We'll see you next time on State Debate.

[Randy the Cool Ranch Kid]

Any chance you got a barf bag?

[Molly Bloom]

Brain Zone Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Smash Boom Best, you'll love the other shows in our universe.

[Merk Nguyen]

Come on, let's explore. It's Alien exercise hour.

[Molly Bloom]

Hiya.

[Merk Nguyen]

While I stretch my snoodles and bounce on my trampolini, I'll listen to a new podcast. I'm going to try Brains on the best science podcast ever.

[Caroline]

It's starting. Yay.

[Davon Bland]

Hello and welcome to Pop Planet, the only show that gets you up close.

[Molly Bloom]

And personal with space.

[Davon Bland]

I'm your host, Stary Zorp.

[Merk Nguyen]

Come back here. Podcast Must listen to Brains On Now.

[Molly Bloom]

Listen to Brains on wherever you get your podcasts.

[Davon Bland]

Smash Boom Best.

[Molly Bloom]

You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.

[Caroline]

And I'm your judge, Caroline.

[Molly Bloom]

And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Take a listen to this debate idea from Libby.

[Caroline]

My name is Libby. I'm from Massachusetts. My debate idea is Razors versus Magicians. What a spellbinding debate idea.

[Molly Bloom]

We'll check back in at the end of this episod to see which side Libby thinks should win.

[Caroline]

And now it's back to our debate, Ketchup versus Ranch.

[Molly Bloom]

That's right. And it's time for round two, the micro round. For the micro round challenge, each team has prepared a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. For Devon and Merc, the prompt was to be or not to be. Devon and Merc were asked to write a Shakespearean monologue about their side. Devon went first last time. So, Merc, you're up. Give us your ode to ketchup.

[Merk Nguyen]

Attention. Attention to all citizens of Bland Land. I apologize for how society's been run by former ruler Ranch's ravenous hands. But fear not, mind people, for I, the royal decay, a delicious gift I shall give with great pace to thee in your possession. Tis an international sensation, an essential condiment for every sauce station. This Glistening red treasure packs a powerful punch. Eat with eggs in the morn or spuds at lunch. Tis sweet and tangy and what some call umami can be put in soups or on meats like salami. Don't just take my word for how great it tastes. There are notable folk among you who add it to their waists. The pigskin throwing. Patrick, yes, Mahomes is his name. Eats grilled chicken, fries and ketchup before his games. Jane Austen, the intelligent lady who has written many a book, enjoys hers with walnuts. Tis an old recipe, I presume, of its liquidy looks. The lute playing. Ed Sheeran has loved this since he was a lad. Has a permanent inking of it. An arm tattoo, I believe, is what one calls this fad. The time is nigh for you to slumber and receive a good morrow's rest. With love from your saucy sovereign, I give you my best.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, my goodness. What an ode indeed. All right, Daevon, now it is your turn. Show us how Hamlet would order his.

[Davon Bland]

Ranch a salad dressed a tang for thine own tongue. Verily, I seek the ranch, my search begun. What doth this flavor best not dress? Not much, not much. This flavor is best not dressed yet such. I seek the tang that sprang for all here now. I seek the ranch that makes the worst best somehow. Portions and morsels from all realms made bold, A flavor to savor for all times told verily, merrily, hysterically. I seek the ranch, for ketchup is not good. I seek at the ranch as most have and should. What say you, who doth destruct thine own taste? What say you who uses ketchup such waste fairly? I seek the ranch, not it me ranch is and shall be best for all to see.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, very well said there, Da'von. Caroline, what did you like about Davon and Merk's odes?

[Caroline]

My theater kid self is eating so well today. The medieval music in both of them was peak. I thought it was really funny in Mirk's one where she would randomly remember that it's like Shakespearean, so she would shoehorn in thine, and I'm like, that was funny. And then Daevon's had more actual Shakespearean in it, which was funny as well.

[Molly Bloom]

Very excellent work, both of you. But, Caroline, only one of our poets here can receive a point. The criteria are totally subjective and totally up to you. Have you made your decision?

[Caroline]

Yep.

[Molly Bloom]

Fantastic. Then it's time for our third round, the super stealthy sneak attack. This is our improvised round where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot. Today's sneak attack is called Style Sense. Merc and Avon. If your side had a fashion line, what would it be called? What would it look like? Tell us about some of the pieces in the collection. You'll have 60 seconds max to tell us about it. Debaters, does this make sense? Are you ready for this sneak attack?

[Davon Bland]

I think I'm ready.

[Merk Nguyen]

Oh. Oh, snap. Sorry. You know, when in the bottle, like, the sauce is stuck? That's my brain right now. It's okay. It'll all come out.

[Molly Bloom]

It will.

[Davon Bland]

That happens with keto.

[Caroline]

Oh, it happens with ranch, too.

[Merk Nguyen]

Thank you, Caroline.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, we're gonna start with da'von. Tell us what outfits are on the COVID of Ranch magazine.

[Davon Bland]

Yes. So Ranch magazine, Great publication. It's been here for about 50 years. We're talking cowboy outfits, like, but chic. We're talking leather cowboy hats. We're talking cowboy fits that you could wear to grandma's house, but also to the club. We're talking little lassos that you could grab your ranch with, but they're all bedazzled with diamonds and things like that. We're talking Barbie core. We're talking lots of bright colors, but also little reds and whites to sort of symbol buffalo wing style. That's a thing? No, like buffalo ranch dressing.

[Merk Nguyen]

Buffalo's kind of orange, though, don't you think?

[Davon Bland]

Yeah, but that's cause of the sugar content.

[Merk Nguyen]

Always the sugar with you, huh?

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, Mark, it is your turn. What looks is ketchup putting on the Runway? You have at most 60 seconds. Go ahead.

[Merk Nguyen]

Two words. Ketchup chromatica. Okay, you know I mentioned ketchup is like a ruby red, Glistening sweet. Yes, Da'Von Wonder. You've got your. Your ketchup tops. You know, you can go with a crop top. You can go with a crew neck. You can go with a long sleeve. You can go with these pants. Ketchup comes in these chromatic sweatpants that, you know, easily wash off if you get the ketchup. Or ranch if, you know, you're into that on you. There's also, like, ketchup crocs. Oh, my gosh. Just dropped. Let me tell you. It is so comforting. Just like ketchup. It's a classic. I can't wait for you to try out these designs. Ketchup by ketchup. Ketchup Chromatica. Everything you could possibly want for any occasion, any time of day. There's even, you know, those ketchup night guards, the Eye masks, you know, that look like ketchup packets. It's so cool. I can't wait for you to invest in this piece of fashion for your own coolness.

[Molly Bloom]

Two amazing fashion lines described there. Caroline, it's time to award a point to one of these amazing descriptions.

[Caroline]

I have to pick between Chapel, Roan, Pink Pony Club, and what I wear on a daily basis. Tough, hard choices.

[Molly Bloom]

Tough choice.

[Merk Nguyen]

I envy your position.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, Caroline, think about which side impressed you the most and award your fourth point, but don't tell us who it's going to have. You awarded your point.

[Caroline]

Yep.

[Molly Bloom]

Wonderful. It's time for our final round.

[Merk Nguyen]

The final six.

[Molly Bloom]

In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. Mercury, let's hear your six words for ketchup.

[Merk Nguyen]

Ketchup. The ultimate Pokemon of sauces. Got a ketchup?

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, Devon, it is your turn. Give us six words for Ranch.

[Davon Bland]

Ranch Helps food taste better.

[Molly Bloom]

Yay. The enthusiasm. All right, Caroline, it is time to award a final point for this final six. Have you made your decision?

[Caroline]

Yes, I have.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, my goodness. Tally up those points. Are you ready to crown one team the smashboom best?

[Caroline]

I think I am.

[Molly Bloom]

Drumroll, please. And the winner is.

[Caroline]

Ranch.

[Merk Nguyen]

Yes.

[Davon Bland]

Oh, that is awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you. This is an honor.

[Merk Nguyen]

I'm bleeding blood red ketchup over here.

[Davon Bland]

Oh, it's okay. I hope that the dyes in that don't stain the pants that you own.

[Merk Nguyen]

No, they don't, because this line of pants just. It comes right off.

[Caroline]

That's what she just said. She literally said, they're made so that you can clean them.

[Molly Bloom]

Caroline, was there a favorite moment of the debate or a moment that really sealed the deal for Ranch?

[Caroline]

I think Ranch is fun because it was, like, funnier. I don't know. It was just funnier. But I will say ketchup won the rebuttal and the final six. Yeah, Pikachu does love ketchup, so. I do.

[Davon Bland]

It's canon.

[Caroline]

It is. There's an entire episode about him just being in love with a bottle of ketchup. It's really weird.

[Molly Bloom]

So it was 3, 2. It was very close. As close as a debate can be.

[Davon Bland]

I think Merk did a great job. I did not know about the deep history of ketchup. I didn't know how personal it would get. And I applaud you for doing what you did and giving us the knowledge that you gave us.

[Merk Nguyen]

Aww, Daevon. I just want to say, you know, you are a legend. When I heard you on the Escalators and Elevators episode, I went, he is so flippin cool and you are so creative. That saucy Shakespearean soliloquy man bars. And also just I will say, you know, like, one of my favorite sauces is a dill ranch and it's delicious. I can't complain about it. So thank you.

[Davon Bland]

Say delicious.

[Merk Nguyen]

Of course you did.

[Molly Bloom]

That's it for today's debate Battle. Caroline crowned Ranch the Smashboom Best. But what about you?

[Caroline]

Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won Smash Boom.

[Molly Bloom]

Best is brought to you by Brains on and APM Studios. It's produced by me, Molly Bloom, Anna Wegel and Aron Walda Selassie. We had engineering health from Jess and Dueler and Derek Ramirez with sound design by Aron Woldesilassi. Our editors are Shayla Farzan and Sandon Totten with fact checking by Rebecca Rand. And we had production help from the rest of the Brains on universe team. Rosie Dupont, Rachel Breese, Anna Goldfield, Nico Gonzalez Whistler, Ruby Guthrie, Lauren Humpert, Joshua Ray, Mark Sanchez and Charlotte Traver. Our executive producer is Beth Pearlman and APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Kavati and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Foyer worker Otto. And we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross, Taylor Kaufman and MC Scat Cat, AKA Derrick Stevens. Davon, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout out to today?

[Davon Bland]

I would like to give a big shout out to the Schilling family and my girlfriend, whom I love, and also Stephen Henson, the guy who created ranch dressing because he liked having friends over for dinner.

[Molly Bloom]

Wonderful. How about you, Merk? Any special shout outs?

[Merk Nguyen]

My top ketchup connoisseurs, my sister and my husband. They're ketchup freaks, I tell ya. 19th century food scientists from Philly, like Henry J. Heinz, my mom, of course, for the ketchup noodles. Davon, seriously, I'm so stoked, I don't even care that I lost. I'm here debating with you, Caroline, of course. And tomatoes.

[Molly Bloom]

Aw. And how about you, Caroline? Any special thanks or shout outs?

[Caroline]

I would like to thank both of my cats, Esco and Milo. I would like to thank all of my friends. And I would like to thank my dog Wellington and my little brother Gabriel, and my mom and my dad.

[Molly Bloom]

Wonderful. Before we go, let's check in and see who Libby thinks should win the Wizards vs. Magicians debate.

[Caroline]

I think that wizards would win because they do real magic and magicians only do tricks. Smashboom Best is a non profit public radio program.

[Molly Bloom]

If you're between the ages of 13 and 18 and you'd like to be a judge, or if you're any age and you have an idea for a knockdown, drag out debate, head to smashboom.org contact and drop us a line. And while you're at it, join Smartypass for bonus episodes and ad free versions of all four shows in the Brain Zahn universe. We'll be back with a new smashboom Best debate battle next week. Eclipses versus Aurora Borealis. Ta ta.

[Davon Bland]

Goodbye and good luck.

[Caroline]

Rfr.

[Merk Nguyen]

Catch up with you later.

[Molly Bloom]

Than the rest.

[Merk Nguyen]

It's a smash.

[Molly Bloom]

The West.

[Caroline]

I do I do appreciate the Hamilton puns, but they might be running out of time.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh.