Why did it take so long for the U.S. to pick its national anthem?

Summary

Forever Ago Podcast Episode Summary

Episode: “Why did it take so long for the U.S. to pick its national anthem?”

Released: April 29, 2026
Hosted by: Joy Dolo (with co-host Freya, guest historian Billy Coleman)

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Episode Overview

In this lively and interactive episode, host Joy Dolo and co-host Freya explore the surprisingly complicated and drawn-out process behind the selection of the United States’ national anthem. Through playful dialogue, personified anthems, historical storytelling, and expert interviews, the show digs into why it took America over 100 years — and numerous song contests, debates, and rejections — to settle on "The Star-Spangled Banner" in 1931.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The World of Anthems and Their Role (00:00–04:32)

• The episode opens with Joy practicing singing "The Star-Spangled Banner," expressing how challenging its vocal range is.
• They visit a fictional "Anthem Convention," where different anthems like the French national anthem, "Yankee Doodle," and "Hail Columbia" are personified and interact with the hosts.
• Importance of anthems:
  • Anthems are songs that help bring groups together — schools, teams, countries, and social causes all have their own.
• Historical tidbit:
  • The French national anthem ("La Marseillaise") is credited as the world’s first official national anthem, adopted during the French Revolution.

The Maze of National Anthems in the U.S. (04:33–11:24)

• Before 1931, the U.S. had no official national anthem, though several contenders like "Yankee Doodle" and "Hail Columbia" were popular.
• Civil War context:
  • Americans wanted a unifying song during the turbulent Civil War era, but committees repeatedly failed to agree on one.
  • First major attempt: In 1861, a New York committee dismissed "Hail Columbia" as “pretentious,” "Yankee Doodle" as “childish,” and rejected "The Star-Spangled Banner" for being “almost useless” due to its difficulty to sing.
• Public competitions:
  • Open contest resulted in 1,200+ submissions—all were rejected (“hot garbage” per the committee).

Memorable Moment (10:04):

“They eliminated the Star Spangled Banner, saying it was so hard to sing that it was, quote, almost useless.”
— Yankee Doodle (in-character), [09:51]

Why "The Star-Spangled Banner" Became the Anthem (14:35–17:39)

• Historian Billy Coleman joins to provide context:
  • The song became popular due to its association with dramatic military victories (written during the War of 1812) and widespread advocacy by militaristic groups after the Civil War.
  • “The fact is that a lot of the people that were campaigning for it to be a national anthem were militaristic in one way or another.”
    — Billy Coleman, [15:52]

The 1920s: Contests, Conflict, and Cultural Pushback (16:42–21:37)

• After World War I, there was renewed debate:
  • Pacifists, music teachers, and prohibitionists opposed "The Star-Spangled Banner"—pacifists for its war themes, teachers for its musical difficulty, and prohibitionists for its origins as a drinking song.
• "America the Beautiful" emerges as a popular alternative:
  • Written as a poem by Katharine Lee Bates in 1893, inspired by U.S. landscapes.
  • In 1927, another contest was held to find a unifying melody, but no winner was selected yet again.
  • Key quote:

    “The judges were told, don’t pick a winning melody unless it was so good it would sweep people off their feet.”
    — Freya, [18:35]

  • Ultimately, divided opposition allowed organized supporters of "The Star-Spangled Banner" to win out.

Notable Quotes:

• “You wouldn’t believe it. Nobody [won the contest].” — America the Beautiful, [21:08]
• “Groups like the Daughters of the American Revolution veterans groups, they were just much more organized in support of, like, one particular song. And that kind of helped it officially get over the line.” — Billy Coleman, [21:37]

Final Reflections & Civic Insights (22:00–24:04)

• The personified Star Spangled Banner triumphantly celebrates its status, noting its vocal “difficulty” as keeping singers “on their toes.”
• Joy points out that while "The Star-Spangled Banner" is official, songs like "America the Beautiful" and "Lift Every Voice and Sing" (the Black National Anthem) are also regularly featured at major events, encouraging listeners to think critically about representation and meaning in songs we call anthems.
• Billy Coleman offers a closing perspective:

  “And that’s a really good way of being a citizen, is to engage with that question over and over again. And I think that’s sort of where the anthem can be at its best.”
  — Billy Coleman, [23:29]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On why the U.S. took so long:
  “Pretty much every country on earth has a unique anthem. But get this, it took over 100 years for the US to pick its anthem. It wasn’t chosen until 1931.”
  — Freya, [03:17]

• The “almost useless” committee verdict:
  “They eliminated the Star Spangled Banner, saying it was so hard to sing that it was, quote, almost useless.”
  — Yankee Doodle, [09:51]

• About America the Beautiful:
  “Many of these groups thought I should be the anthem.”
  — America the Beautiful, [17:19]

• On divided opposition vs. unified support:
  “Groups like the Daughters of the American Revolution veterans groups, they were just much more organized in support of, like, one particular song. And that kind of helped it officially get over the line.”
  — Billy Coleman, [21:37]

• Civic takeaway:
  “That’s a really good way of being a citizen, is to engage with that question over and over again. And I think that’s sort of where the anthem can be at its best.”
  — Billy Coleman, [23:29]

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Timeline of Significant Segments (Timestamps)

• 00:00–04:32 — Introduction; explanation of anthems and fictional Anthem Convention
• 04:33–11:24 — Early U.S. anthems; the struggle to pick a song; Civil War context; failed contest and committee "rubbish" verdict
• 14:35–17:39 — Rise of "The Star-Spangled Banner"; Billy Coleman on military groups’ support
• 16:42–21:37 — 1920s debates; "America the Beautiful" as an alternative; more failed contests; discussion on what made the official anthem “win”
• 22:00–24:04 — The Star-Spangled Banner’s victory; discussion on anthems’ evolving cultural role
• 24:04–27:59 — Recap and “First Things First” game answers (songs at sports games historical order)

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Summary Takeaway

"Why did it take so long for the U.S. to pick its national anthem?" reveals that America's anthem was selected not just for its patriotic lyrics, but due to persistent, organized advocacy and despite numerous competing songs and widespread opposition. The show encourages listeners to view anthems as evolving symbols—tools for uniting, reflecting, and even questioning a nation’s identity—reminding us that the stories behind the songs are as meaningful as the songs themselves.

Transcript

[Yankee Doodle / Hail Columbia]

Lemonade.

[Freya]

Brains on Universe.

[Yankee Doodle / Hail Columbia]

Free. Free.

[Joy Dolo]

Free.

[Freya]

That's a very high note.

[Joy Dolo]

Thank you for noticing. Gleaming, streaming.

[Freya]

And that's a very low note.

[Joy Dolo]

Well, I gotta really make sure my singing range is stretched to its full potential. I'm singing the United States national anthem, AKA the Star Spangled Banner at my pet elephant Hermes kickball game next week.

[Freya]

That's so exciting.

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah, it is. But singing the song is a workout. There's a huge range of notes from high ones to low ones, and it has a pretty complicated melody. Singing this song is like vocal gymnastics.

[Freya]

Have you considered taking lessons from the Star Spangled Banner itself?

[Joy Dolo]

Excuse me, What?

[Freya]

Yeah, there's a big anthem convention that happens every year. You can meet famous anthems and get trained by them.

[Joy Dolo]

Get trained by an actual song. Like, are there weights, laps, rowing machines?

[Freya]

No, even better. Karaoke machines.

[Joy Dolo]

Let's go foreign. You're listening to Forever Ago, part of the Brains on Universe. I'm your host, Joy Dolo, and my co host today is Freya from Minneapolis, Minnesota. Hi, Freya.

[Freya]

Hi, Joy.

[Joy Dolo]

So today we're going to learn all about how America got its national anthem, the Star Spangled Banner. So, Freya, do you know that song pretty well?

[Freya]

Yeah, I would say so.

[Joy Dolo]

Have you ever tried singing yet?

[Freya]

No, I don't think I have.

[Joy Dolo]

Oh, should we try?

[Freya]

Sure.

[Joy Dolo]

Oh say can you see why the dawn's early? Okay, Freya, maybe we shouldn't sing it because I think I don't know the words all the way through. I know the beginning.

[Yankee Doodle / Hail Columbia]

Yeah.

[Joy Dolo]

But so proudly something. So what do you picture when you hear that song?

[Freya]

Probably like a twins game, because when we go to those, they always sing it.

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah. I feel like at a lot of sports events, the twin games or even sometimes at school.

[Freya]

Yeah.

[Joy Dolo]

Like you'll still start with the Star Spangled Banner and do it. If you had a personal anthem, what song would it be?

[Freya]

I think Don't Stop Me Now.

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah.

[Freya]

By Queen.

[Joy Dolo]

That's a great song. That's one of my favorite songs. Don't Stop Me Now.

[Freya]

If you want to have a good

[Joy Dolo]

time, scare me a call. That's a great song. I think if I had a personal anthem, it would change every day, but I think mine today would be that. Do you remember that song? Cause I'm happy Clap along. I. I think that'd be my anthem today. Because I've had so much coffee and Because I've had so much coffee, I'm so excited to go to the annual anthem convention. The timing is remarkably perfect.

[Freya]

Yes, it is. And here we are. AnthemCon.

[Star Spangled Banner]

Wow.

[Joy Dolo]

This place is huge.

[Freya]

Gotta have room for all the anthems.

[Joy Dolo]

All the anthems? I thought there was just one national anthem.

[Freya]

No way. Pretty much every country on earth has a unique anthem. But get this, it took over 100 years for the US to pick its anthem. It wasn't chosen until 1931.

[Yankee Doodle / Hail Columbia]

Wait, what?

[Joy Dolo]

Why did it take so long?

[Freya]

Great question. It's a wild story with lots of song contests and lots of songs that were good, but not good enough.

[Joy Dolo]

Gotcha. Makes sense. It took a while. Anthems are important. There are songs that help bring groups together, and they're not just for countries. My school had one. This is the fastest version of my school song.

[Freya]

Okay.

[Joy Dolo]

Fridley High will shine tonight. Our team will win this game. Ever true and ever loyal and I don't know all the words. So bold T I g e r s05 that's when I graduated. Did you like my school song?

[Freya]

Yeah. There are also anthems for sports teams, Queer anthems, feminist anthems, and patriotic ones, just to name a few.

[Joy Dolo]

So how did the Star Spangled Banner become the national anthem for the US

[Freya]

let's talk to the anthems themselves to find out. Oh, over there is the French national anthem. They were the first official national anthem adopted by any country.

[Joy Dolo]

Bonjour.

[Yankee Doodle / Hail Columbia]

I'm number one.

[French National Anthem]

I'm number one. I mean, before me, there were royal anthems for kings and queens.

[Freya]

There still are, but maybe you've heard

[French National Anthem]

of a little thing called the French Revolution.

[Joy Dolo]

Indeed I have. The French Revolution was a time in the late 1700s where the people of France were fed up with how unfair fair French society was. They blamed it on their corrupt royal rulers. Oui.

[French National Anthem]

Well, the French national anthem, which is moi, started as a rallying cry that eventually became the official national anthem.

[Joy Dolo]

Alonso Font de le patrie, le jour de Cloiret arrive.

[Yankee Doodle / Hail Columbia]

Catchy.

[French National Anthem]

I'll say. Look around now almost all the countries have them. I started that. How do you say trendsetter in English?

[Freya]

Trendsetter is English.

[French National Anthem]

Oh, well, call me trendsetter.

[Joy Dolo]

Okay, bye. Trendsetter. So where's the Star Spangled Banner? I can't wait to meet them.

[Star Spangled Banner]

I'm sorry, did you say you're looking for me, Yankee Doodle?

[Joy Dolo]

No, I'm sorry.

[Yankee Doodle / Hail Columbia]

Or me. The song known wide and far as Hail Columbia.

[Joy Dolo]

Who? No, I'm.

[Star Spangled Banner]

No one even knows who you are. Columbia.

[Yankee Doodle / Hail Columbia]

Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, much better to be like you. Known as a children's song that originated as a way for British people to make fun of people from the US

[Star Spangled Banner]

I can't hear you. I'm not listening. Yankee Doodle went to town riding on a pony Stuck a feather in his cap and called it Macaroni.

[Joy Dolo]

Yes. I love that song. Is that you?

[Star Spangled Banner]

Guilty as charged, ma'. Am.

[Joy Dolo]

Why are you here at the anthem camp? And sorry to you, Hail Columbia. But I have no idea who you are.

[Yankee Doodle / Hail Columbia]

Well, I never. I go like this.

[Joy Dolo]

Hail Columbia. Happy land.

[Freya]

I'm so sorry. Hail Columbia. She meant no offense, Joy. This is a song called Hail Columbia, Joy.

[Yankee Doodle / Hail Columbia]

It is a joy to make your acquaintance.

[Joy Dolo]

Enchantee.

[Star Spangled Banner]

Is that French you're speaking? Aw, man, did that French anthem get to you first.

[Freya]

And this song is Yankee Doodle.

[Star Spangled Banner]

Up top, Joy.

[Freya]

Yankee and Columbia here were two of the biggest anthems in the early days of the United States.

[Yankee Doodle / Hail Columbia]

Thank you, Freya.

[Joy Dolo]

Oh, you mean before the Star Spangled Banner became the official anthem?

[Star Spangled Banner]

Hi, I'm the Star Spangled Banner. And I'm zoo important and everyone knows me.

[Joy Dolo]

Oops, sorry. Sore subject.

[Star Spangled Banner]

Very.

[Yankee Doodle / Hail Columbia]

Yes, we were anthems, but never the official anthems.

[Star Spangled Banner]

Although some people thought we should have been the anthem. Let us tell the tale.

[Yankee Doodle / Hail Columbia]

The year was 1861. People traveled by horse or train. There were no telephones or computers.

[Joy Dolo]

Telegrams were the fastest way to send messages. That's where messages were sent using Morse code. It sounded like this.

[Freya]

Oh, yeah. And then the telegram office would decode those dots into a message, write it out and deliver it.

[Joy Dolo]

So much faster than carrying a handwritten letter across many miles. Though people still sent those, too.

[Star Spangled Banner]

And of course, the Civil War had just begun.

[Joy Dolo]

Oh, yes, that was a war here in America between the northern states and Southern states over whether slavery should be legal.

[Yankee Doodle / Hail Columbia]

You are quite the scholar, Ms. Dolo. And at that time, the United States had no official national anthem.

[Star Spangled Banner]

The Civil War was a scary time. Almost everyone knew someone fighting as a soldier.

[Yankee Doodle / Hail Columbia]

People wanted to unite and they wanted a song. To help them do that, a group

[Star Spangled Banner]

of fancy men in New York City formed a committee to pick an official national anthem.

[Yankee Doodle / Hail Columbia]

I thought to myself, this is my moment. Hail Columbia. You shall rally the people.

[Star Spangled Banner]

But nope.

[Yankee Doodle / Hail Columbia]

The committee immediately dismissed me. An already very popular Anthony. Them as pretentious.

[Star Spangled Banner]

Pretentious is another word for stuck up. And they said no to me, too. Said I was childish. Well, joke's on them. Could a child stick a feather in his cap like this?

[Yankee Doodle / Hail Columbia]

Doink.

[Star Spangled Banner]

I don't think so.

[Joy Dolo]

So did they pick the Star Spangled Banner then?

[Freya]

Well, the Star Spangled Banner was already a popular song back in those days. But they didn't pick that either.

[Yankee Doodle / Hail Columbia]

What?

[Joy Dolo]

Plot twist?

[Yankee Doodle / Hail Columbia]

Yes. They eliminated the Star Spangled Banner, saying it was so hard to sing that it was, quote, almost useless. End quote.

[Star Spangled Banner]

Almost useless. Cracks me up every time.

[Yankee Doodle / Hail Columbia]

It is rather amusing. So the committee asked the public for help, holding a new contest to find a song that would be both patriotic and. And pull at the heartstrings.

[Star Spangled Banner]

Within six weeks of announcing the contest, the committee received over 1,200 submissions.

[Joy Dolo]

That's a lot of anthems to listen to.

[Yankee Doodle / Hail Columbia]

Indeed. It took about a month and a half for the committee to listen to all of the entries. And after all that listening, they finally selected a winner.

[Star Spangled Banner]

Actually, they selected zip. Nothing.

[Billy Coleman]

What?

[Joy Dolo]

You mean to tell me out of 1,200 submissions, the committee couldn't find a single national anthem?

[Star Spangled Banner]

Pretty much. In fact, the committee barely thought any of the submissions were good, let alone good enough to be the official song of the country.

[Yankee Doodle / Hail Columbia]

Some members of the committee even called the submissions quote, rubbish. End quote.

[Star Spangled Banner]

That means they thought these songs were hot garbage.

[Joy Dolo]

Yikes. Well, sorry to both of you. I guess that's just how the cookie crumbles. Mmm, cookies. Hmm.

[Star Spangled Banner]

Let's go. I'm starving.

[Freya]

It was nice chatting with you. Hail Columbia and Yankee Doodle Catch you

[Joy Dolo]

on the flip side, Freya. Let's also take a break and play a round of

[Star Spangled Banner]

First Things First.

[Joy Dolo]

So this is the game where we take three things from history and try to put them in order of which came first, second, and most recent in time. And today's three things are songs sung at sports games. We have We Will Rock youk, Take Me out to the Ball Game and Get Ready for this. So do you know these songs? I know you know Queen.

[Freya]

Um, I Know We Will Rock youk and Take Me out to the Ball Game.

[Joy Dolo]

Have you ever heard the. Think get ready for this?

[Freya]

No.

[Joy Dolo]

Well, we'll just do our best guesses then. Okay, so which do you think came first, which came second, and which came most recently in history?

[Freya]

I think since I've never heard Get Ready for this, I think that one came first. Take Me out to the Ball Game came second, and We Will Rock youk came last.

[Joy Dolo]

And Rock youk came last. Okay, so get Ready for this first. And that's because you're not really quite sure about that one. So it's probably from like, 82 BC. And then the Ball Game and then Rock youk is the most recent. Is this your final answer?

[Freya]

Uh, yeah.

[Star Spangled Banner]

Yeah.

[Joy Dolo]

All right, well, let's lock it in. And we'll hear the answers at the end of the episode right after the

[Freya]

credits, so stick around.

[Joy Dolo]

Want to send us something? We love hearing from our listeners. If you were inspired by an episode or learned something cool about history, share it with us. Maybe you've been inspired to make up your own personal anthem, or want to share the latest slang word you've heard at school. Or maybe you've drawn a picture of Billy Possum. Whatever you think up, tell us about it by going to brainzone.org contact. We might feature it in our mailbag. Thanks. At Great Wolf Lodge, there's adventure for the whole family. You and your pack can splash away in the indoor water park where it's always 84 degrees. There's a massive wave pool, a lazy river, and tons of water slides for your pack to enjoy together. And the fun doesn't stop there. Get ready to explore and play at Adventure Packed attractions from Magiquest, a live action game that takes place throughout the lodge, to the Northern Lights Arcade. There's also a bunch of great dining options and complimentary daily events like nightly dance parties, all under one roof. And the best part? With 22 lodges across the country, you're always only a short drive away from adventure. So bring your pack together at a lodge near you. Book your stay [e-mail] and strengthen the pack.

[Freya]

You're listening to foreverigo. I'm Freya.

[Joy Dolo]

And I'm Joy, and today we're talking about anthems. These are songs that have special importance for any group of people, which is

[Freya]

really perfect because we're the annual anthem convention where us humans can learn from actual anthems.

[Joy Dolo]

Before the break, we learned that the United States didn't have an official national anthem before 1931. There were many contenders like Hail Columbia and Yankee Doodle, who we met earlier.

[Freya]

But these anthems didn't make the cut. In fact, nobody could settle on one anthem at all.

[Joy Dolo]

But during the Civil War, the Star Spangled Banner got pretty popular. It was written about 50 years before the Civil War, during another war, The

[Billy Coleman]

War of 1812, in this case, because it kind of was associated with this dramatic military victory that people could take pride in.

[Freya]

Oh, it's Billy Coleman. I'm so glad you're here. Joy, this is Billy.

[Billy Coleman]

I'm the associate director of the Kinder Institute on Constitutional Democracy at the University of Missouri, and I research early American music and politics.

[Freya]

In the years after the Civil War. Some people really wanted the Star Spangled Banner to be the official national anthem.

[Billy Coleman]

The fact is that a lot of the people that were campaigning for it to be a national anthem were militaristic in one way or another. So we're talking about groups like the Daughters of the American Revolution, or we're talking about veterans groups like the American Legion.

[Joy Dolo]

So people who had been involved in wars wanted the Star Spangled Banner. Makes sense. The song is about fighting a war, after all.

[Freya]

But the song still wasn't chosen as the official anthem in the 1920s.

[Billy Coleman]

There is a big debate about this. It's very difficult for people to, like, come to some kind of agreement about what kind of song should be the national anthem.

[Joy Dolo]

The 1920s is right after World War I ended. That was a big war that involved a lot of countries around the world, including the U.S. yeah.

[Freya]

And after this war, some groups really didn't want the Star Spangled Banner to represent our country. One group that didn't like the song was pacifists, people who didn't want war.

[Billy Coleman]

So you have, like, pacifists who don't like it following the First World War because they want peace.

[Freya]

And then there were music teachers because

[Billy Coleman]

they don't think that it's particularly amazing music, and it's, like, incredibly hard to sing, so they push back against it in that way.

[Joy Dolo]

The Star Spangled Banner's melody started as a song that people would sing when they were drinking alcohol. For this reason, people who were against drinking alcohol didn't like the song either.

[America the Beautiful]

Many of these groups thought I should be the anthem.

[Joy Dolo]

Whoa. Another song. Pleased to meet you. Um, who are you?

[America the Beautiful]

Why, I'm America the Beautiful. You know, Ho. Beautiful. Four spacious skies.

[Joy Dolo]

Four.

[America the Beautiful]

Four amber waves of grade four purple

[Joy Dolo]

mountain majesties Herber of the fruity blooms.

[Freya]

It really paints a lovely picture.

[America the Beautiful]

Right. I started as a poem by Katherine Lee Bates way back in 1893. Catherine was inspired by the stunning landscapes she encountered as she traveled across the United States, from the Great Plains in Kansas to gleaming cityscapes like Chicago.

[Freya]

So you were a contender for the national anthem, too?

[America the Beautiful]

Indeed. In 1927, there was yet another contest with a new committee of folks.

[Freya]

And this committee did agree on one thing. They didn't want the anthem to be the Star Spangled Banner.

[America the Beautiful]

And they agreed that Catherine's poem should be the words of the anthem. They just needed to figure out what melody to use. You see, at the time, that poem was set to a lot of different melodies, not just the melody we know and love today.

[Freya]

The judges were told, don't pick a winning melody unless it was so good it would sweep people off their feet.

[Joy Dolo]

That's a high bar. So who won the contest?

[Freya]

We'll find out right after the mailbag.

[Joy Dolo]

I love checking the mail. Ooh, let's see what we got here.

[Freya]

Hi.

[Nate]

Joy Dolo. I'm Nate. I'm from England. London in the uk And I think that what we hear before we hear the listener mail is Morse code. And I think it spells forever ago. If it actually spells that, I think that's really, really cool. Also, I really love the show, and I am really excited for your new episodes.

[Joy Dolo]

Well, Nate, you got me. It is Morse code, and it does spell forever ago. Y' all ready for this great detective work, Nate? Virtual high five. Hold your hand up. Is it up? Okay, let's high five the air together on three. One, two, three. Great. Virtual high five. You're very strong. You've been working out. If you have an idea, thought, or question for me, send it to the mailbag. Go to brainzon.org contact. Thanks. You want this show with zero ad breaks? You can get it that way. Just join Smarty Pass. It supports me and all the work the team and I do. Plus, you get ad free versions of Brains on smashboom Best. And your favorite, obviously, forever ago. Sign [e-mail]. Okay, we're back. I'm Joy.

[Freya]

And I'm Freya.

[Joy Dolo]

And we're learning about anthems. We just heard how in the 1920s, a group of people held yet another contest to pick a national song.

[Freya]

They wanted these lyrics to be from the poem America the Beautiful, but they wanted a new melody.

[Joy Dolo]

And we are here with the song America the Beautiful right now. Hello. So, America the Beautiful, tell us who won?

[America the Beautiful]

You wouldn't believe it. Nobody.

[Joy Dolo]

Again.

[America the Beautiful]

It was an absolute flop.

[Joy Dolo]

I thought I had trouble making decisions. Geez.

[Freya]

For real? The people who didn't want the anthem to be the Star Spangled Banner couldn't agree. But meanwhile, the people who did want the Star Spangled Banner, they were very organized, right? Historian Billy Coleman.

[Billy Coleman]

Groups like the Daughters of the American Revolution veterans groups, they were just much more organized in support of, like, one particular song. And that kind of helped it officially get over the line.

[Star Spangled Banner]

That's right. Unified support for one heck of a song.

[America the Beautiful]

Oh, here comes the big hotshot. Star Spangled.

[Joy Dolo]

The Star Spangled Banner.

[Star Spangled Banner]

That's right.

It's me.

The Star Spangled Banner. The official United States national anthem.

[Freya]

We've been looking all over for you.

[Star Spangled Banner]

Of course you were.

[Joy Dolo]

Some people think you're really hard to sing. I am. Some people.

[Star Spangled Banner]

I like to think it takes Someone with range singing so high and then so low. Isn't it fun?

[Freya]

That's one way to put it.

[Star Spangled Banner]

What can I say? I'm a glass half full kind of anthem. Some might say I'm hard to sing. I like to think I keep people on their toes. And who cares anyway?

I won.

[Joy Dolo]

Well, you may be the official national anthem, but every year at the super bowl, they also sing America the Beautiful. Oh, beautiful for spacious skies for amber

[Freya]

waves of grace they also sang lift every voice and sing. That song comes from the early 1900s, and it is known as the Black National Anthem. Ring. So when you hear these different songs, you can think of which one resonates with me, which one represents the country as I hope it can be.

[Billy Coleman]

And that's a really good way of being a citizen, is to engage with that question over and over again. And I think that's sort of where the anthem can be at its best.

[Joy Dolo]

Thanks, Billy, and thanks, Freya, for bringing me to AnthemCon.

[Yankee Doodle / Hail Columbia]

Joy. Freya, I'm so glad I found you. Yankee Doodle went to the Mac and cheese food truck, and now his hat is covered in macaroni. I need some help cleaning him up.

[Freya]

Let's go.

[Joy Dolo]

I'll be back for some vocal training soon.

[Star Spangled Banner]

Starry brb.

[Freya]

An anthem is a song that helps bring a group of people together. It is supposed to represent them.

[Joy Dolo]

Many countries have an official national anthem, and for the US it's the Star Spangled Banner.

[Freya]

It took over a hundred years for the country to pick that song, and lots of people were against it at the time.

[Joy Dolo]

But eventually, the Star Spangled Banner was made the official anthem, beating out other popular songs like Hail Columbia, Yankee Doodle and America the Beautiful. This episode was written by Molly Bloom and it was produced and fact checked by Ruby Guthrie. It was edited by Sandon Totten, engineering help from Matt Caster, with sound design by Rachel Breeze, original theme music by Mark Sanchez, and if you want access

[Freya]

to ad free episodes and a special bonus content, subscribe to our Smarty Pass.

[Joy Dolo]

Okay, Freya, it's time. Are you ready to hear the answers for First Things first?

[Freya]

Okay.

[Joy Dolo]

Okay. Well, just as a reminder, let's see. Your first one was get ready for this and then Take me out to the ball game. And then we will rock you.

[Freya]

Yes.

[Joy Dolo]

Yes. Okay, let's see. Drum roll. Okay, well, I'll tell you what. This was not an easy one. It was not easy. So the first one was actually Take Me out to the Ball Game.

[Freya]

Oh, really?

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah. And so that was written in 1908. So that's right around when I was born. That's a joke. I'm only in my early 20s. The original lyrics were not the ones we sing today. They actually focused on a baseball fan named Katie Case. And this is interesting because at the time, women were fighting for the right to vote. And this was a very popular song celebrating an opinionated woman who loves baseball. Do you like baseball?

[Freya]

Yeah.

[Joy Dolo]

Cool. Do you play at all?

[Freya]

I play softball.

[Joy Dolo]

Oh, cool. Cool. I used to play when I was your age, too. Well, copies of the sheet music even featured a photograph of a suffragette, a famous woman who was leading the fight for women's right to vote. That is cool. I didn't know the history behind that song, but I've heard it before. Yeah, at ball games while I'm eating a hot dog.

[Freya]

That's true.

[Joy Dolo]

It all goes together. And then second was from the band that you know very well, Queen was We Will Rock youk. And so that debuted in 1977 and was designed as a song to have audience participation, which is what motivated the famous stomp, stomp, clap rhythm that. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they were inspired to have more audience participation when the crowd at one of their shows spontaneously started singing you'll Never Walk Alone, which is the anthem of the Liverpool soccer team. Do you. Do you play soccer at all?

[Freya]

No.

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah, I don't either. You know what it is? It's lots of running and my knees hurt because I am old. So soccer is in my. In my past. So get ready for this. Came out in 1991, and it's by Belgian and Dutch group 2 Unlimited. I don't think I've actually heard of them before, but I do remember this song. Did you ever see the movie Space Jamie?

[Freya]

No, I don't think I have.

[Joy Dolo]

Oh, that's from when I was younger, too. But the song became a part of Jock Jams, which is a collection of exciting songs meant to pump you up, put together and released by the sports TV channel espn. And before you could easily make playlists on a music streamer, people needed to buy CDs in order to hear a bunch of different artists in one place. Have you seen a CD before?

[Freya]

Yeah.

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah. Do you have a cd?

[Freya]

Um, I don't think we do.

[Joy Dolo]

It's very similar to, like, a dvd. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Were you surprised by any of these answers?

[Freya]

Yeah. I didn't know that Take Me out to the Ball Game was that old.

[Joy Dolo]

Yeah, I didn't either. And it's also cool that I was involved with, like, women's rights and suffragettes and stuff. I think that was pretty cool. Join us next week for an episode all about skincare.

[Freya]

Thanks for listening.