Emma Straub on Boy Bands And the Joy of Middle Age

Summary

Forever35 Podcast: “Emma Straub on Boy Bands and the Joy of Middle Age”

Hosts: Doree Shafrir & Elise Hu
Guest: Emma Straub (Author, Bookstore Owner)
Release Date: July 27, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this lively and insightful episode, Doree and Elise welcome novelist and bookstore owner Emma Straub for a conversation that centers on middle age, revisiting adolescent obsessions (hello, boy bands!), and the surprising pleasures that come with getting older. Blending personal stories with cultural commentary, the discussion covers Emma’s newest novel, American Fantasy, the importance of delight, and the collective power of middle-aged women claiming joy—whether it’s aboard a New Kids on the Block cruise or in the routines of daily self-care.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Elasticity of Time and Parenting Realizations

• Time’s Strange Flow: The trio opens by reflecting on how time seems to compress and accelerate as they age—especially after children (“Did I feel middle when I was 35? … No, I didn’t. I felt, I felt young.” – Emma, 14:40).

• Kids and Independence: Elise and Doree swap stories about their kids going to sleepaway camp, noting both the challenges and surprising resilience kids show when given independence.

  • Quote:
    “I love that about kids. I love the way they level up when presented with something new.”
    – Elise Hu, 07:43

Emma Straub’s Self-Care Evolution

• Shifting Priorities in Self-Care: Emma’s approach to wellbeing has become more “serious” in her forties—prioritizing twice-weekly personal training, facials, and indulging in little pleasures (“Is that self-care? I guess it is. But not as directly maybe.” – Emma, 15:33).

• Perimenopause and Strength Training: The hosts discuss the increasing emphasis on strength training for women in perimenopause.

  • Quote:
    “I want to be strong and I want to be able to sit down and stand up when I’m 85 years old. … I am just in it for the long game.”
    – Emma, 18:15

  • Emma recounts proudly surprising her family with her visible muscles, marveling at the byproducts of prioritizing fitness.

The Joy and Power of Reclaiming Adolescent Pleasures

• Inspiration for American Fantasy: Emma explains that her latest novel had been “in research for thirty-five years”—rooted in her undying love for New Kids on the Block. The process began as a search for joy following her father’s death and the emotional intensity of her previous novel, This Time Tomorrow.

  • Quote:
    “My last novel was all about my father dying ... when I was looking for something that would bring me joy, I saw something about the New Kids’ annual cruise … I could see the pleasure it would give me to write it.”
    – Emma, 20:45

• Boy Band Cruises as a Microcosm: Emma describes her experience on the New Kids cruise as transformational. What she didn’t anticipate: a sea of middle-aged women prioritizing their own pleasure.

  • Memorable Moment:
    “These women have all chosen to prioritize their own pleasure for four days. … This is what the world needs is happy middle-aged women.”
    – Emma, 26:11

• The Novel’s Plot and Themes:

  • American Fantasy follows Annie, a newly divorced and empty-nested woman navigating self-rediscovery on a boy band cruise; her journey mirrors that of Keith, a sensitive boy band member grappling with age and gratitude.
  • Emma and the hosts discuss how the novel explores “what comes next” after checking off life’s conventional boxes.

Embracing Middle Age: Curiosity and Enthusiasm

• Enthusiasm as Anti-Aging Elixir: Emma reflects that remaining curious and excited is essential to thriving in middle age—not just for children.

  • Quote:
    “What keeps people young is learning and curiosity … we’re never too old to have profound interests.” – Emma, 32:23

• Intergenerational Connections: Emma discusses how her passion for boy bands became a family affair, bringing new conversations and connections with her husband and children.

Surreal Research: Meeting Childhood Idols

• Joey McIntyre & Lin-Manuel Miranda: Through a well-placed connection, Emma interviews NKOTB’s Joey McIntyre for research (thanks to Lin-Manuel Miranda), making her “young Emma” dreams come true.

  • Memorable Moment:
    “Befriending your childhood crush is a really entertaining psychological experiment to do on yourself.” – Emma, 38:13

Book Recommendations & Bookseller Life

• Books Emma is Reading / Recommends:

  • Country People by Daniel Mason — “a fun, fun, fun summer book” (40:41).
  • Cool Machine by Colson Whitehead — “He’s always doing something different” (42:44).
  • Whistler by Ann Patchett — “If Anne could write a hundred more books, it wouldn’t be enough for me. She’s my absolute hero.” (43:56)

• Running Books Are Magic: Emma shares the joys and challenges of running her Brooklyn bookstore, including the inspiration for launching a First Edition Club (“It’s just Ann Patchett’s fault … she was like, Why don’t you have one?” – Emma, 39:47).

What’s Next for Emma

• Writing the Next Novel: Emma is hard at work on her next book, writing “little by slow” amidst the patchwork chaos of summer parenting.

  • Quote:
    “Writing fiction is the best job in the world, and I am so happy to do it.”
    – Emma, 45:38

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Notable Quotes by Timestamp

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|:------------|:----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 14:40 | Emma Straub | “Did I feel middle when I was 35? ... No, I didn’t. I felt, I felt young.” | | 15:14 | Emma Straub | “It's not that I think I'm a decrepit crone… I certainly don’t feel young anymore.” | | 18:15 | Emma Straub | "I want to be strong and I want to be able to sit down and stand up when I’m 85..." | | 20:45 | Emma Straub | "My last novel was all about my father dying... [after] I was looking for something..." | | 26:11 | Emma Straub | "These women have all chosen to prioritize their own pleasure for four days..." | | 32:23 | Emma Straub | "What keeps people young is learning and curiosity... we're never too old..." | | 38:13 | Emma Straub | "Befriending your childhood crush is a really entertaining psychological experiment..." | | 45:38 | Emma Straub | “Writing fiction is the best job in the world, and I am so happy to do it.” |

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Episode Structure & Timestamps

• [01:32-10:45] Host catch-up: parenting milestones, kids at camp, legacy of sleepaway camps
• [14:04-20:45] Emma Straub’s return & self-care routines in middle age; perimenopause talk
• [20:45-26:34] American Fantasy: origins, joy, and the symbolism of the boy band cruise
• [26:34-29:23] Emma’s experience on the cruise; power of middle-aged women’s pleasure
• [31:07-34:43] The search for joy in middle age, importance of hobbies and enthusiasm
• [34:53-38:13] Meeting Joey McIntyre; Lin-Manuel Miranda’s cameo; fangirl full circle
• [39:18-44:38] Books Emma recommends, the First Edition Club, running Books Are Magic
• [44:38-45:38] What’s next for Emma: writing, parenting, finding joy in the work
• [45:50-end] Host intentions: closet clean-outs, rest, work-life resets

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Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is witty, warm, and full of solidarity for the ambiguous joys and fears of middle age. Emma’s enthusiasm for both self-improvement and regressive joys (boy bands, summer camp) underscores this episode’s main lesson: it’s always worth it to chase whatever delights you, no matter your age. Emma’s approach to aging rejects decline in favor of curiosity, community, and strength—both literal and metaphorical.

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Useful For

• Listeners approaching or experiencing middle age, especially women reflecting on how pleasures and priorities shift.
• Fans of Emma Straub and contemporary fiction, seeking insight into her creative process and recommendations.
• Anyone interested in self-care, perimenopause, and making time for personal joy.

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For More:

• Find Emma’s books and bookstore at Books Are Magic (Brooklyn, NY).
• Emma’s current children’s book recommendation: Very Good Hats.
• Follow Doree’s depop for a closet clean-out: user “ForeverDory”.
• Submit questions or comments to the show via text/email or Patreon for their “You Ask, We Answer” episodes.

Transcript

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[Dory Shafrir]

Hello and welcome to February, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Dory Shafrir.

[Elise Hu]

And I'm Elise Hu. And we're just two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.

[Dory Shafrir]

And today we have the one and only Emma Straub, author, bookstore owner, just Delightful Human Return Forever 35 guest. Although I was like, oh yeah, we had her on a couple years ago. Cut to oh, that was 2020. Not a couple years ago, not a couple years. What is time, Elise?

[Elise Hu]

I feel like we had a similar experience with Mary HK Choi. Yes. The last time she was on was like 2018.

[Dory Shafrir]

Oh my God, time just has. Has flattened.

[Elise Hu]

Yes. And Emma was the perfect person to talk about that because her previous book is about time travel where there's a time travel storyline this time tomorrow and it's really lovely. And so we talked a little bit about how like in middle age time both moves fast and very slow. So it's like that elasticity, physics. It's weird.

[Dory Shafrir]

Totally. Or time.

[Elise Hu]

It's weird.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yes, yes. I mean I think also when you have kids time moves in a different way because I was like, oh, 2020, like Henry was one.

[Elise Hu]

Right, right. Yeah. That is their experience leaps and bounds in their changes.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah, whereas exactly.

[Elise Hu]

From when I was 20 to when I was like 29, before I had Ava. I don't know. It's all one blur. It all feels like generally the same

[Dory Shafrir]

hundred percent, but then when I was,

[Elise Hu]

like, 30 to 39, it's a really different.

[Dory Shafrir]

Right, right, right. Exactly.

[Elise Hu]

Anyway.

[Dory Shafrir]

Goodness, what else is going on with you?

[Elise Hu]

Well, by the time that this airs, the kids will be back from camp, so. But currently we're getting ready for sleepaway camp. They only go for a week, but it's a great opportunity for them to kind of, like, be together and in a rustic environment. And they were not going to have iPads or the comforts of home. They're sleeping in cabins of 10 kids or 8 kids. Each and every last year, they came back and really liked it.

[Dory Shafrir]

Have they gone? I was just gonna ask, have they gone before? It sounds like they have.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. So this is the second time for everybody. Luna went when she was a second grader going into third, and this year she has a friend going who's going for the first time, so she's gonna be kind of the veteran.

[Dory Shafrir]

Nice.

[Elise Hu]

And Issa has some friends going this time, too. Ava does not. And so she is not happy about it and has been grumbling. So I hope that by the time we record this, she will actually have gone, because, as I have mentioned, she's 510 now, so I'm not gonna be able to drag her body into any situations that she doesn't want to.

[Ad Host]

Right.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah. She has her own agency now. I mean, she always did, but now

[Elise Hu]

even more so now I can't be like, we're going.

[Dory Shafrir]

Right, Exactly.

[Elise Hu]

So we'll see how that goes. I'm excited for them. Two out of the three girls are very psyched. It's such a summer thing to be at camp, I think, and sing campfire songs and do the whole rite of passage that is camp.

[Dory Shafrir]

Well, and also, like, in our day and age that we live in now, for them to be off screens is a big deal.

[Emma Straub]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

Like, even if you're not a screen heavy household, there's just screens around all the time, you know, and so to get them away from that for even just a week is amazing.

[Elise Hu]

Absolutely.

[Dory Shafrir]

You know, speaking of camp, I don't think I mentioned this on any of our previous episodes, but Henry did, like, a rookie day, a trial. Like, a trial day at my old sleepaway camp, which is so cool. Which is so cool and so fun. And I was so impressed and surprised that he actually stayed the night and was, like, cool with it.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

And, you know, Henry, like, Henry watches YouTube, like, on a TV. He doesn't have his own iPad. But you know, he, like, he consumes quite a bit of screen time. I would say, like, more than I would like, but just for various reasons, he ends up. He ends up watching stuff. And I was like, how's he going to do? Like there's no screens. And he didn't even mention it.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. That's amazing.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah, it was so interesting. Like he, I guess wake up was at. Official wake up was at 8am, which is late for him. Like he's, you know, he's up at like the crack of dawn.

[Elise Hu]

Oh my gosh.

[Dory Shafrir]

He said, he just. He said he woke up at 6 and he just sort of laid in his bed.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

And I was like, well, look at that. You know what I mean?

[Elise Hu]

You don't have to get out of

[Dory Shafrir]

bed when you wake up. And. But just the fact that he didn't even mention it, I was like, oh, this is really interesting.

[Emma Straub]

Like he.

[Dory Shafrir]

I don't know, it's like he's. He, he was in an environment where it just wasn't available.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. And he's really capable, it sounds like. Yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah. So that was, that was very eye opening in a lot of ways.

[Elise Hu]

Oh, I'm so glad that he got to do that. And I'm so glad that you got the night off too, because he was staying at overnight, right?

[Dory Shafrir]

Yes, he was staying overnight. We got to hang out with Matt's friends and it was. Yeah, it was really nice. I was. But I was like, literally like waiting by the phone for them to be like, you need to come get him. Or like, you know, he's really homesick, he won't stop crying or like just, I don't know. You think of like a million scenarios.

[Elise Hu]

Right, right.

[Dory Shafrir]

And I was also like, he's never spent a night away from home without us. Like, he stayed at his grandparents.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

You know, a couple times. But like, he's never stayed at a friend's by himself or anything like that. So this felt like a big leap and he just totally rose to the occasion.

[Elise Hu]

I love that about kids. I love the way they level up when presented with something new. So it's great that Henry got to do that both for him and for you all. So.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah, totally.

[Elise Hu]

And then next year, do you think that he's gonna go to camp the same camp as you, like, as a legacy, I guess.

[Dory Shafrir]

At the sleepaway camp, when we picked him up and we were like walking to the parking lot, I mean, like the first thing he said was, can I come next year? I was like, wow, wow. And they have like a, they have a two week program for beginner, like for first time campers. Or you can stay the full session or. Which is like three and a half weeks or stay the whole summer. I mean, kids his age typically do not stay the whole summer.

[Elise Hu]

And it feels long to be away.

[Dory Shafrir]

It's long. It's long.

[Elise Hu]

I don't want to be away for the full summer. I don't think, you know, so.

[Dory Shafrir]

But I was like, oh, do you think you would want to go for two weeks or for, you know, the month? And he was like, well, what do you think? And I was like, I don't know. Like, I don't, I don't know.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, it sounds like he's interested, though. The bottom line is no matter what the length of time he's away, it's the most important thing is that he is eager and interested and yes.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yes.

[Elise Hu]

Wants to do it.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yes. So that was, that was a real, like, I don't know. It was, it was one of those things where sometimes I feel like I'm always looking for the line between like pushing him to do new things and like, see what he's capable of, but then also like meeting him where he is and you know, if he had, but if he, if he had expressed like any true reservations or whatever, you know, said he didn't want to go, of course we would have been like, no, you don't have to go. But he was interested. So I don't know, it was a, it was like an interesting parenting moment for me.

[Elise Hu]

Oh, good. Yeah, well, it's, I mean, it sounds like the kind you want, so there's lots of interesting parenting moments, but that one is one that you want.

[Dory Shafrir]

That's so true. Anyway, I hope your girls have so much fun.

[Elise Hu]

Yes, me too.

[Dory Shafrir]

And you get a nice little break too.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah. Well, let's introduce Emma. She is the New York Times best selling author of seven books for adults and her novels, including her new one, American Fantasy, which we talk about, which is such a fun book. This time tomorrow, all adults here, the Vacationers, Modern Lovers, Laura Lamont's Life in Pictures, and her short story collection, Other People We Married. She's also the author of three picture books, Gaga Mistake Day, which she cohort with her mother, Mama Hug and Very Good Hats. She's a Guggenheim foundation fellow and her work has been published in more than 20 languages. Emma and her husband own books are Magic, an independent bookstore in Brooklyn, New York. We have Very Good Hats. It's a, It's a very delightful children's book, so I can. I can recommend it.

[Elise Hu]

Oh, I love that. Okay.

[Dory Shafrir]

It's very cute.

[Elise Hu]

I like her novels so much. I didn't even think of her as a children's book author as well. But she is that prolific.

[Dory Shafrir]

Totally. I haven't read the other two, but Very Good Hats is very charming. And just a reminder, you can call or text us at 781-591-0390 or email us at forever35podcastmail.com we are doing our you ask we answer episodes every other week. So please call or text or email us with your questions, your comments, your concerns, your feedback. We want it all. Our website is forever35podcast.com we have links to everything we mention on the show. Our Instagram is Forever35podcast if you want more of us. Which why would you? Yeah, why not? You can get more of [e-mail] Forever35 we have a free level where you get our semi monthly newsletter which is super fun. We have some pod highlights, bonus content, some sometimes you do some giveaways, some discounts. It's a good time. And then at $5 a month you get access to our casual chat which is our weekly gab fest which is now on video. We do live casual chats every quarter. You get access to our like community chat on the Patreon app and there's a lot more as well. And at $10 a month you get ad free episodes and a shout out on the podcast to three thank you each and every month. And you can shop our favorite products@shopmy us.forever35 we are going to take a short break and we will be right back with Emma.

[Elise Hu]

We'll be right back.

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[Emma Straub]

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[Emma Straub]

And honestly that hundred dollars back, I'm putting it towards the zipline now.

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[Emma Straub]

Exactly. Best switch I ever made.

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[Elise Hu]

Thanks.

[Dory Shafrir]

Emma. Welcome back to Forever35. So nice to see you again.

[Emma Straub]

It's always a pleasure. It's always a pleasure. Very happy to be here.

[Dory Shafrir]

I couldn't believe when we were like going back through our notes. I couldn't believe we last talked to you six years ago. It really doesn't seem like it was that long ago, but it, it was quite some time.

[Emma Straub]

The older I get, like six years. Like does six years feel like a long time? In some ways, yes. But in other ways, no. Like I'm like, oh right. Oh right. All right, we're here. We are marching through time.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yes.

[Emma Straub]

I was thinking today, like, did I feel middle when I was 35? I'm now 46. Like when I was 35, did I feel middle aged? No, I didn't. I felt, I felt young. Even though When I was 35 I had my second child and was a geriatric pregnancy, I still felt like, ha ha ha, geriatric pregnancy. I'm so young and now I'm like, oh no, no, no. I actually, I was young and now I'm not.

[Elise Hu]

Now I'm not.

[Emma Straub]

I don't. It's not that I think I'm like a decrepit crone, it's just that I certainly don't feel young anymore.

[Elise Hu]

Well, tell us since it's been several years now and it was during the COVID vortex when you were last on forever 35, what are you doing that you would consider self care?

[Emma Straub]

So I do facials. I have a personal trainer. I go to the gym twice a week and I pump iron. Those are, those are the big things. Those are the big things I would say. I mean, and other things like indulging myself in like pounds of cashews from Tahadis, like that's. Is that self care? I guess it is. I guess it is. But. But, but not as directly maybe.

[Dory Shafrir]

Emma, you brought up strength training which made Me think about perimenopause, because I feel like the conversation right now is about how all of us women who are in perimenopause need to be doing strength training. And so first of all, I'm wondering if that was at all a motivation for you. And then also, like, what do you make of this conversation around perimenopause right now?

[Emma Straub]

Yeah, I love it. I love it. Like, I. I am all for women sharing their experiences. I think that TikTok is. Is a glorious place. Maybe it's because I'm not. I'm not fluent, you know, Like, I don't know how to do it. All I know how to do is like, open it up and absorb what it has prepared for me, but what it prepares for me are, like, women lifting weights and. Or wearing weighted vests and. Or making themselves like, amazing looking, like, complicated salads with a lot of protein. And I'm like, I want a complicated salad with. With edamame beans in it, you know, or whatever. So I am all for it. And yeah, I just like this, you know, lifting weights. I would say I have, like, quote unquote, gotten in shape or like, been in shape at a few different points in my life.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah.

[Emma Straub]

You know, like, in my 20s, I. I did a lot of yoga. I was all in on yoga. And then I had children and I stopped all that, you know, and then. Okay, so maybe there have only been two times in my life. Just thinking about it now, Just thinking about it now. It really, it was just then and now, but. But it's so different. I mean, I, you know, now I just, I. My goals are different than they were then.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yes.

[Emma Straub]

And I just, like, I want to be strong and I want to be able to sit down and stand up when I'm 85 years old.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Emma Straub]

Yes. Like, I am just in it for the long. The long game. And the other day I was walking down the street with my husband and my two children, who. Two boys who are 10 and 12. And one of them was sort of like, flexing his muscle a little bit. And I flexed my muscle. And when I tell you that the three boys in my family gasped, they gasped at my. I have never been so proud because I'm not. I'm not doing that. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not flexing in front of the mirror at the gym.

[Elise Hu]

Right.

[Emma Straub]

I'm just picking up what my trainer, Michelle tells me to pick up. You know, like, I'm just doing whatever Michelle tells me to do and trying to make Michelle Laugh as much as possible and like, just trying to be her favorite, that's. That's all I'm doing. It's the same thing I've done in every, like, class setting I've ever had. You know, I just want to be the best one she's got. And like, having visible muscles has been a shocking byproduct.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. That's awesome.

[Dory Shafrir]

That's amazing. Well, I think that's also a good segue to talk about your new book, which is so delightful, American Fantasy, because one of the main characters in the book is a 50 year old woman named Annie. So tell us about the new book and what inspired it and all the, you know, delicious things about it.

[Emma Straub]

Sure, sure. So, I mean, what inspired it? I mean, you know, you could say, one could say that I researched this novel for like, about 35 years. And you wouldn't be wrong. You wouldn't be wrong.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah, okay. Right.

[Emma Straub]

Like, I loved the New Kids on the Block.

[Dory Shafrir]

Did I?

[Emma Straub]

When I was a child, I loved them more than anything. You know, like more than Paula Abdul, more than Madonna, more than Janet Jackson.

[Elise Hu]

And.

[Emma Straub]

And that, that love never went away. And it stayed inside me like a little. Like a little seed. And then after. So my last novel, this Time Tomorrow, was all about my father dying. And I mean, I loved writing that book. I loved it so much. My father lived to read it. He read it like 20 times and he loved it. And it gave us this amazing, like, final few months. Yeah, it was, it was beautiful and I loved it. And it'll probably always be like, you know, the most meaningful writing experience of my life. And I cried all the time. I cried all the time, every day. And when I. After the book came out, I. I was, I was looking for something that would bring me joy. And I was on Facebook, which is always a cool place to say you're hanging out. And I saw something about the new kids then annual cruise. So this was in 2022. And I got so excited because I just, I could see it all. And I mean, I've written a lot of novels at this point and this has never happened to me before, but I just, I could see the whole thing. Like, I could see, number one, I could see that it was a novel. You know what I mean? Like a, like a boy band, an aging boy band cruise. Like, perfect. I could just see it. And I also could see that. I could see the pleasure that it would give me to write.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Emma Straub]

And the pleasure that it would give me to spend my days in that deranged world. And I couldn't go on the cruise that year because it was like weeks away. But I did go the following year and in that time in between, I did all the work, you know, Like I, I actually figured out who, who the characters were and, you know, what the story was and all that. And so, um, that's really where it came from.

[Elise Hu]

So you have to say more. What was it like being on a cruise ship with a bunch of middle aged women?

[Emma Straub]

Okay, so I had been as an adult, I have been to many New Kids on the Block concerts at that point. I mean, at that, at that point I had probably been to like, I don't know, two or three, like enough, enough to know the scene, you know.

[Elise Hu]

Okay.

[Emma Straub]

And, and so I sort of, I thought I knew who I was dealing with. I'd also joined. In that year I had joined several fan Facebook groups.

[Elise Hu]

Okay.

[Emma Straub]

Which were intense, which were and are remain kind of intense spaces. And so I, I thought I knew who I was dealing with. But when I got on the boat,

[Elise Hu]

I had,

[Emma Straub]

I had just truly revelation after revelation.

[Ad Host]

Just.

[Emma Straub]

I, I realized, I mean it started like right away. And this is straight in the book. This went straight into the book. But like at the, at the, the first thing that happens on this cruise is what they call the sail away party. They have this on every cruise. I've gone on other cruises because my in laws are very big cruisers. And so I've gone on other kinds of cruises too. But for the new kids cruise, you know, everyone, 3,000 women are standing on the Lido deck. That's the top of the boat where the pools are, you know, whatever. And they all are like weeping and cheering and screaming and dancing. It's what happens at like a crowded public beach or like in like a Korean spa or something, you know, like, like it's, it's one of my favorite things in the world when you look around and you realize, oh, everyone's body is hilarious and perfect, you know, like, some are bigger, some are smaller, some are taller, some are shorter, some are wider, some are dimplier, uh, whatever. We're all so beautiful, you know, So I was already having that sort of experience, but I just. We're all middle aged too. We're all middle aged. And what I realized was just how profound it is for there to be thousands of middle aged women, women who are in dead space center of their lives, taking care of children, taking care of school, whatever, or your aging parents or your work environment. Like women, middle aged women take care of everything. You know this is not a revelation to other middle aged women, but like I just looked around and I was

[Dory Shafrir]

like, oh my God.

[Emma Straub]

These women have all chosen to prioritize their own pleasure for four days.

[Ad Disclaimer Voice]

Four days.

[Emma Straub]

It's a long time. This is what the world needs is happy middle aged women. And I after that I was like, well damn, like this book is going to be different than I thought it was going to be.

[Elise Hu]

Okay, let's take a break and we will be right back.

[Dory Shafrir]

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[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

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[Dory Shafrir]

So tell our listeners kind of like what the book is about. It's four days on this cruise. Give us, give us like the quick synopsis of.

[Emma Straub]

Sure, sure. Yes. So basically it's about this woman, annie, who is 50 years old, newly divorced and newly empty nested and having sort of trouble at work. And she doesn't really mean to go on this tour. She's supposed to go with her sister, but her sister then breaks her leg and can't go. And so she's there by herself. And it's really. Annie gets her groove back. You know, it's like Annie learns to be who she is now and learns to embrace who she is now. And then we also have Keith, who's one of the members of the aging boy band, and he's doing that too. You know, like, Keith is a melancholic, sensitive man in his 50s, and I just love him so much. Like, he would really rather be like in a bathrobe on the floor of his hotel room. You know, like, he is not happy to be there and he is so appreciative of these women who have given him his career for the last 40 years and he doesn't want them to touch him. You know, it's just. It's complicated. It's complicated. And, And I just loved living in this. Living in this world. So really it's. It's Keith and Annie making their way through this experience.

[Elise Hu]

And Emma, I remember listening to an interview of yours when the book came out earlier this year, and you mentioned wrestling with this period in middle age when a lot of us have already checked the boxes that we were supposed to have checked. Right. Of professional life and personal life. And then what, you know, and ask kind of the question of, okay, well, I still have another half of my life to live. What kind of insight did you gain about this particular period just by exploring it not just with yourself, but also on the page in fiction?

[Emma Straub]

Yeah, I mean, I guess, like what, you know, what I have learned. And I mean, I think I knew this already, but I mean, whenever I start novels, it's. It's never because I think I. It's never that I think I know Things it's always, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. Let's explore. You know, but what I have really come away from this novel, from writing this novel thinking is that like enthusiasm is vital and excitement is vital and discovery is important. Like it's, it's not only important when you're six years old.

[Elise Hu]

Right.

[Emma Straub]

You know, and you love dinosaurs or whatever. Like to learn everything about dinosaurs, like what keeps people young is learning and curiosity. And so I think for me, like, you know, my, like sort of homework from, from this is to get a hobby, you know, or, or, or a few, or just like to have that, like we're never too old to have profound interests.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Emma Straub]

You know, and, and like. Yes, the new kids on the block, like when I tell you my family is tired of the new kids on the block, like they are, they are so tired of the new kids on the block. But, but it, it has become, it has become this interesting thing in my family where that like, I don't, I don't really think had happened before this book where I like brought something to my husband and children and said like, this is a, this is a thing that I'm interested in or this is a thing that I care about. Here's why, here's what I'm thinking about it. Here's who are, you know, like here are the players.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yes.

[Emma Straub]

And, and to have them fully engage with it, like it's, it's been wonderful. It's been wonderful. And, and they, you know, they know a lot of boy band songs now. Like not just the New Kids on the Block. They really, they know the oldies is pretty good. Yeah, they definitely know the oldies. I mean I would say like BTS is like where my knowledge truly falls off a cliff in terms of boy bands. But, but I do have some other middle aged friends who know everything about BTS and so I can talk to them about that too, you know, like it's, it's, it's been really fun to, to sort of bring something to the group. Awesome.

[Elise Hu]

Awesome. And then you got to, you got to meet or speak with Joey McIntyre from what I understand, for research too. So.

[Emma Straub]

Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

Did you, what was that like for you? What was that like for young Emma?

[Emma Straub]

So what I will say is that like, thank God it started okay. So the name Droppy, the name Droppy part of this story is that Lin Manuel Miranda is my friend and he is the one who, he is the one who put us in touch. And every day I thank Lin Manuel Miranda.

[Dory Shafrir]

For that.

[Emma Straub]

Because I think that, like, if it had come. I don't know, it's just like, who. How do you say no to him?

[Elise Hu]

No, you don't.

[Emma Straub]

If he writes you an email and is like, oh, will you talk to my friend, this genius novelist? He wrote the nicest email I have ever read about myself.

[Dory Shafrir]

I love that.

[Emma Straub]

And so that really, like, just made it a slam dunk that Joe would at least talk to me. Um, but, yeah, I mean, we talked.

[Dory Shafrir]

We started talking.

[Emma Straub]

I mean, so I guess it was like the spring of 2024, and he was terrific. Like, he. I had so many questions, so many questions just, like, about, I don't know, like, what does it feel like, what does it feel like to be in your 50s and to still be working with these same guys who you have been yoked with since you were, like, 12, you know, and, you know, starting there.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Emma Straub]

And he just. He was so open with me and willing to have honest, unvarnished conversations. And. And it was wonderful. Like, it was.

[Dory Shafrir]

He.

[Emma Straub]

He exceeded all my expectations, for sure. And. And he continues to be very nice to me. Like, I. I wrote to him today because my German. My German publisher. My German publisher wrote to me this morning, or, you know, through my agent or whatever, and said that they wanted to. They want to change the title. And I mean, this happens, right? Not infrequently.

[Elise Hu]

Translations, huh?

[Emma Straub]

Yeah, but they wanted to change my title for American Fantasy to Back for Good, which is a. Take that song. And so I told him that, and he thought that was very funny. But, you know, I. It's great. It's great. I mean, now he's just my friend. And I dragged my entire family to Las Vegas to see the New Kids on the Block, and we. After, you know, we got to hang out with him a little after, and when we left, my 12 year old said, wow, that's like the first famous person I've ever met. And I was like, that's so not true. Like, he. He doesn't realize he knows so many famous people. But what I think he meant was, like, this. I got to meet someone who's really important to you.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Emma Straub]

You know what I mean? Like, and I was like, oh, okay. Well, that's very sweet. Yeah. An unexpected pleasure. I. I really do recommend it to everyone, though. Like, befriending your, like, childhood crush is. Is. Is a really. It's a really entertaining psychological experiment to do on yourself. Ooh.

[Dory Shafrir]

All right.

[Elise Hu]

Call. Call me Hugh Grant.

[Emma Straub]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

Kate Spencer and I went to a New Kids on the Block concert a few years ago with En Vogue and Rick Astley. And it was, it was amazing. And it was, yeah, very, very similar vibes to what you're describing. And I felt very like at home among all of these women. Yes. So I really, I really enjoyed that aspect, but I'd love to switch gears a little bit. You know, you. You mentioned your bookstore books are magic, which, you know, iconic at this point. So let's talk a little bit about books right now. What are you reading right now?

[Emma Straub]

So right now I'm reading fall. Like, I'm, you know, I try to read. I started this, this past year I started a first edition club at the bookstore, which. Which has been so wonderful and like, mo many things in my life. It's just Ann Patchett's fault. Like, she just. I was at her house and she was like, why don't you have one?

[Elise Hu]

You should have one. Parnassus books has one, right?

[Emma Straub]

Yeah, A lot of my friends has one. Yes. And so I was like, of course you are right. Yes, I will get right on that. And, and so really, like, much of my year, I mean, it's been a funny year for me for reading because I have been reading for the first edition club. So really trying to pick like, just like my. My favorite for every month. Like, not. Yeah, there's no other rubric, you know, but. And then like, I'm always reading for blurbs and things like that, but I have really fallen off the blurb train this year. Like, I just, I being on book tour, like, and like with the ramp up to my publication, like, I just found that I just could not read. I just couldn't read for months, really. But I will tell you what I'm reading now for. For like summer and fall. That is really fun. So for July, my pick is Daniel Mason's Country People. So he wrote a book called north woods that came. I mean, he's written a bunch of books, but north woods was like a big hit. And Country People is so fun. It's like two sort of academic types and their family moved to Vermont from California. And basically the. The wife in the couple is like gainfully employed and busy and the man is just like, I don't know, like, he's like in theory writing a dissertation but not really doing anything except like falling deep into like, local lore and sort of like going off the deep end a little bit. But it's really fun. It's like a fun, fun, fun summer book.

[Elise Hu]

Great.

[Emma Straub]

Colson Whitehead, Cool machine out in August coulson is like, oh, my God. I mean, he's just. I just. Like, there are a few writers, like Anne and like, Colson, where I'm just like, this is so cool. Like, it's so cool to be aging alongside them and to just watch their careers happen and to watch them, like, experiment and play. Like Colson. What I love about Coulson's work is that you never know what he's gonna do. Like, he's. He's always doing something different, you know, like, he's just. I mean, he's got, you know, themes right, broadly speaking, but. But, like, sometimes it's like a coming of age summer book, and sometimes it's zombies, and sometimes it's like slavery, and sometimes it's crime in New York City. I don't know.

[Elise Hu]

It's just.

[Emma Straub]

He goes all over the place and he really lets himself explore. And this book, Cool Machine, is the third of his Harlem trilogy, he's calling it, I Believe. And they're just. They're like fun New York City crime novels.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Emma Straub]

And it's just a delight. It's a delight.

[Elise Hu]

Those are books for summer. But what about the first half of the year? Have there been release?

[Emma Straub]

Oh, yeah.

[Elise Hu]

Have there been standouts for you from the first half of 2026 that you just want to shout out real quick while you have the chance?

[Emma Straub]

I mean, you know, I will say, like, Ann. Ann's book, Whistler. Yeah, Whistler. Ann, to me, is just perfect. She's just perfect. Like, she's perfect. Like, I. I don't. I. I'm not even able to be articulate, really. It's just like. I mean, what I said to her about Whistler, is that it? Her books, Whistler. But. But her books in general feel to me like. Like they are built like mystery novels in which there is no horrible crime, like there's no body. But they're.

[Dory Shafrir]

But they're.

[Emma Straub]

They're. They're intricately built and so solid and so satisfying. Like, I just. If Anne could write, like, just a hundred more books, it wouldn't be enough for me. Like, I just. She's my. She's my absolute hero. She's like. She's. She's the only star in my sky, you know?

[Elise Hu]

Well, join the club, the giant club, because this is the fourth time, I think, this summer that Whistler has come up on this podcast because I have been going on Ann Patchett and Whistler reveries nonstop. So it's so funny that you have just gone on life. Emma, what's next for you before we let you go.

[Emma Straub]

I'm writing a new book. I'm writing a new novel. Okay. And little by slow, I'm keeping track of all my little words that I write. And I'm trying to do it while my children are, you know, at their various patchwork day camp.

[Elise Hu]

And, you know, we know that. Well,

[Emma Straub]

God, it's not easy, but it's fine. Yeah, I mean, I just, I love my job. I love my jobs. Like, I just, I love my jobs and I love writing fiction. And I just, I don't know, I. You know, I often have conversations with other writers where they're like, don't you just feel like writing fiction is torture? And I'm like, no, no, never. Actually, I really, to me, writing fiction is the best job in the world. And I am so happy to do it.

[Elise Hu]

And, well, we're so happy to be the beneficiaries. So. Emma Straub, thank you again for coming on the show.

[Emma Straub]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yay. Emma was so great. Thank you, Emma, for coming back on the show. And we are in the intention zone now. Last week I said I was going to start the playroom clean out, and I'm happy to say that I did start it.

[Elise Hu]

Yay.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yay. This week I'm going to, I'm going to continue the clean out theme and get into my closet a little bit more because I had to go to something recently and get like a little bit dressed up. Not, not. It wasn't like formal or anything like that, but I do look like a little bit nice. And I was like going through all my sort of nice clothes and I was like, no, don't like that. That doesn't fit this. Like, just everything was like, oh. And so I was like, I. I've been like, way too selective about what I'm getting rid of. I need to do like a full. Like it all needs to go.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, but you have a depop account. You can just depop everything.

[Dory Shafrir]

Totally.

[Elise Hu]

Maybe make some money.

[Dory Shafrir]

Everything. I hope so. So stay tuned for that, everybody. Oh, also, I should say if. If you want to follow me on depop, my user is Forever Dory, so my shop is Forever Dory, so you can follow me there.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. It sounds like you're about to be posting a lot of stuff too.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yes, I will be posting a lot of stuff.

[Elise Hu]

So, yeah, for me, I wanted to just have ease, A week of ease. And I'll tell you more about it in the next episode and during our casual chats. But it is so restorative. I think to get away and it's so necessary. And we got away just the two of us too. So instead of having a big family trip like we often do, it's just Rob and me and so that's, it's like, that's awesome. It's incredibly. It's so much cheaper, first of all, it's so much more affordable and then too very nice and like it feels indulgent even. So that's lovely. And this week the intention is to lock in. I gotta lock in. I gotta go back heads down because a lot of July, because I was kind of recovering from June which was so topsy turvy. I've been just trying to emphasize just pleasure and ease but I actually am getting close to having a rough assembly of the documentary and so the editor has been working non stop and so I really just need to lock in and make some editorial choices and work with her and make sure our budget's on track and all those things. So that's what this week is going to be about.

[Dory Shafrir]

That's awesome. All right everybody, thank you so much for listening. Forever 35 is hosted and produced by me, Dory Shafreer and Elise Hu and produced and edited by Sam Junio. Sammy Reed is our project manager and our network partners Acast. Thanks everybody.

[Elise Hu]

Thanks. We'll talk to you next time.

[Dory Shafrir]

Bye.

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[Emma Straub]

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