Episode 332: Makeup Is A Visual Language with Rachel Goodwin

Summary

Forever35 Podcast Episode 332: "Makeup Is A Visual Language with Rachel Goodwin"

Release Date: December 9, 2024

Hosts: Doree Shafrir & Elise Hu
Guest: Rachel Goodwin, Celebrity Makeup Artist

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Introduction

In Episode 332 of Forever35, co-hosts Doree Shafrir and Elise Hu delve into the intricate world of makeup and its role as a visual language with the esteemed makeup artist Rachel Goodwin. This episode navigates through clean beauty choices, makeup techniques tailored for mature skin, and fostering healthy conversations about makeup with younger generations.

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Clean Beauty: Navigating Choices and Dupes

The conversation kicks off with a discussion about popular cleansers, specifically Youth to the People's Superfood Cleanser. Elise shares her experiences with various cleansers, highlighting the challenges of transitioning to new formulas:

Elise Hu [02:02]: "I don't own it, but I was at Trader Joe's and I think they created a dupe for it... It's great because I've been a devotee of the Clean and Clear."

Doree responds by exploring the origins of Youth to the People and its relationship with Trader Joe's offerings:

Doree Shafrir [04:01]: "According to this blog post, it's the other way around. One followed the other timing. Yes. Wow, that's kind of interesting."

Rachel Goodwin adds her expertise by recommending brands that balance performance with clean ingredients:

Rachel Goodwin [15:14]: "Brands like Ilia and Monastery have done a really good job of creating a really sweet little niche where it's like performance and natural."

Notably, Rachel emphasizes the importance of choosing clean products without compromising efficacy, especially for lipsticks and body products:

Rachel Goodwin [18:07]: "Lipstick, for sure... I love brands like Kosas, Ilia, and Tata Harper that make it well."

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Skincare Essentials: Moisturizers and Hand Creams

The hosts transition to skincare, discussing moisturizers suitable for different seasons and skin sensitivities. Doree praises Dime Beauty’s moisturizers for their balanced hydration:

Doree Shafrir [04:35]: "I like a day cream that is moisturizing without being too thick or greasy... the Dime one strikes that balance quite well."

Elise and Doree also share their favorite hand creams, emphasizing the importance of fragrance-free options for sensitive skin:

Elise Hu [06:24]: "I really like this Evolve Together stuff. Also, it smells so good."

Rachel recommends specific products for maintaining skin hydration without traditional serums:

Rachel Goodwin [35:38]: "I love the Jouer barrier cream and the brand Chuda for sealing in moisture without adding more products."

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Expert Insights with Rachel Goodwin

Rachel Goodwin, renowned for her work with celebrities like Emma Stone and Priyanka Chopra, shares her extensive knowledge on makeup tailored for mature skin. She offers actionable advice on selecting and applying makeup to enhance natural beauty without overcomplicating routines.

Under-Eye Makeup for Over 40s

A listener's question about under-eye makeup leads Rachel to discuss strategies for minimizing fine lines and dark circles:

Rachel Goodwin [19:41]: "Use products with potent, hydrating formulas that act as both treatment and concealer... Sarah Creel’s under-eye cream with tint is fantastic."

Rachel emphasizes a minimalistic approach to application:

Rachel Goodwin [20:50]: "I dot it right on the actual bone... Keep the bulk of the application on the inside into the middle of the eye."

Conversations About Makeup with Tweens

Addressing parental concerns, Rachel and Elise discuss fostering healthy makeup habits in young girls. They emphasize open communication and education over strict restrictions:

Elise Hu [23:08]: "They're educated about what they are seeing and kind of savvy about that... Keeping the lines of communication open."

Rachel adds her perspective on makeup as a form of self-expression balanced with societal pressures:

Rachel Goodwin [27:46]: "Makeup can be a form of self-expression... but we shouldn't message that there's something wrong with you. Fix it."

Modernizing Your Makeup Look

For listeners looking to refresh their makeup routines, Rachel offers tips on updating looks to stay contemporary while maintaining personal style:

Rachel Goodwin [42:03]: "Trends are up for grabs... strong block brows and hard creases are looking dated. Embrace signature elements that work for you."

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Practical Tips and Product Recommendations

Throughout the episode, Rachel provides specific product recommendations and application techniques tailored to mature skin:

• Concealers: Kevin Aucoin Skin Enhancer and Makeup Forever’s HD Foundation Powder for high coverage without heaviness.
• Skin Tints vs. BB Creams: Rachel explains that skin tints offer lighter coverage compared to BB creams, allowing for more natural looks without heavy layers.

Rachel Goodwin [33:07]: "Skin tints have very little coverage... Foundation is great if you want more coverage."

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Personal Reflections and Intentions

In the closing segment, Doree and Elise share their personal intentions for the upcoming weeks, focusing on reflection and self-care amidst the holiday rush. This segment encourages listeners to balance productivity with mindfulness:

Doree Shafrir [49:43]: "My intention is to reflect and maybe journal and look back on the year in a more holistic way."

Elise adds her experience with adjusting fitness routines and the importance of listening to one’s body:

Elise Hu [50:07]: "My shoulder dislocated again... Now I'm on rest. It’s about reflecting on 2024."

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Conclusion

Episode 332 of Forever35 masterfully intertwines expert makeup advice with personal anecdotes, offering listeners a comprehensive guide to navigating beauty and self-care in their mid-40s and beyond. Rachel Goodwin's insights empower listeners to embrace their unique beauty while making informed, clean beauty choices.

For more detailed product recommendations and to submit questions for future episodes, visit forever35podcast.com or follow them on Instagram @forever35podcast.

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Notable Quotes:

• Elise Hu [02:02]: "I don't own it, but I was at Trader Joe's and I think they created a dupe for it..."
• Rachel Goodwin [15:14]: "Brands like Ilia and Monastery have done a really good job of creating a really sweet little niche where it's like performance and natural."
• Rachel Goodwin [18:07]: "Lipstick, for sure... I love brands like Kosas, Ilia, and Tata Harper that make it well."
• Rachel Goodwin [33:07]: "Skin tints have very little coverage... Foundation is great if you want more coverage."
• Rachel Goodwin [42:03]: "Trends are up for grabs... strong block brows and hard creases are looking dated."

---

*Stay tuned for more episodes of Forever35 as Doree and Elise continue to explore self-care, beauty, and aging gracefully with wisdom and humor.

Transcript

[Advertiser]

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[Dory Shafrir]

Hello and welcome to Forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Dory Shafriar.

[Elise Hu]

And I'm Elise Hu and we are two friends who like to talk a lot about serums and door. Before we get into any serums, can I talk about a cleanser?

[Dory Shafrir]

Of course. We are also friends who like to talk about cleansers.

[Elise Hu]

Okay, okay. Just making sure I know we don't take it too literally.

[Dory Shafrir]

We don't, it's true.

[Elise Hu]

But there is this very popular cleanser out there. From youth to the people. It's the super food cleanser. It's like kind of light green, green tea and kale or something.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yes.

[Elise Hu]

And I see it everywhere and people have it on their sinks when I'm over at my friends houses and things and my daughter bought one because she got really into it and you know, she's always cooler than me. So I know about this because of that. I don't, I don't own it. But I was at Trader Joe's and I think they created a dupe for it. Oh yeah, it looks a lot like it. And I got one and I brought it home and I'm like, I'm testing it out. I, I mean I don't know what the formulation is because it's not like Trader Joe's really lists everything that they put into their product and the specific formulation, but it looks very Similar. And I don't know where the. Maybe there's like a dupe Reddit. I know you're. You're big on Reddit, so maybe the Redditors already know whether this is a dupe. But it's great. I really like it because, you know, I've been a devotee of the Clean and clear. I've been using since I was like 17. But they changed their formula this year. Not long after I came on Forever 35 and talked about how much I liked it, they changed the formula. And something about the new formula ain't doing it for me.

[Dory Shafrir]

Oh, no.

[Elise Hu]

So I have been trying fancy cleansers. I've been trying like more mid range cleansers and then my daughter's cleanser, the Youth to the People super food. But I think I found a dupe which is not $50 but more like $8 or something at Trader Joe's. So I don't know if it's a dupe. Listeners, please advise. It says like green tea or kale or something. It has like green tea and spinach or something.

[Dory Shafrir]

And then the, the Trader Joe's one is the all in one facial cleanser.

[Elise Hu]

Yes.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yes.

[Elise Hu]

And it's sort of light green. Same thing.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah. I found a blog post that said that the Youth to the people is actually a dupe of the Trader Joe's. That the Youth to the people that the Trader Joe's one predates Youth to the people.

[Elise Hu]

Oh. And then Youth to the people took the same general formula and then slapped fancy things on it.

[Dory Shafrir]

Now, who knows if that is true, but according to this blog post, it's the other way around. One followed the other timing. Yes. Wow, that's kind of interesting.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, that's.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah. Well, I have been using our advertiser Dime Beauty's moisturizers and as I said in our ad, I do really like them.

[Elise Hu]

Oh, okay.

[Dory Shafrir]

This is not an ad. This is just mentioning that I have been using them. I've been using the dewy day cream and the night cream. I think it's the restorative night cream. And I like a day cream that is moisturizing without being too thick or greasy.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yes, agree.

[Dory Shafrir]

But not so light that it doesn't do anything. And I feel like the dime one strikes that balance quite well.

[Elise Hu]

Do you switch in the winter to add like a face oil? Like my Pilates instructor. I remember. And then a lot of the Korean ladies, they would switch and add. Instead of just moisturizer and cream and serum or whatever, they would also add an Oil. Do you add an oil?

[Dory Shafrir]

So I have been adding in. This is from another advertiser, but I, again, I am legitimately using it. I've been adding in the Medicaid liquid peptides serum.

[Elise Hu]

Oh.

[Dory Shafrir]

Which is a very moisturizing serum. And so I find that adding that in addition to my regular moisturizer is a good combo.

[Elise Hu]

I think I should have one of.

[Dory Shafrir]

Those to really turbocharge the moisture, if you will.

[Elise Hu]

Okay. I'm going to check my Medicaid stash and see if I have it.

[Dory Shafrir]

You probably have it. But if not, you know, I would. I would recommend it.

[Elise Hu]

Fantastic. Fantastic.

[Dory Shafrir]

I love a peptide. I gotta say, I love a peptide. So, you know, my. My aging. My aging skin really just like slurps up the peptides.

[Elise Hu]

I also need. As we're talking about winterizing our skin, I also need a lot more hand cream this time of year.

[Dory Shafrir]

Oh, yes.

[Elise Hu]

Because my hands are like. I. They feel like I've been working the fields all day.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yes. But I'm familiar.

[Elise Hu]

I haven't. And so there is a hand cream that I really like and smells so good. I think. I don't want to get it wrong, but I think the brand is called Evolve or Evolution. Huh?

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It smells familiar.

[Elise Hu]

So good.

[Dory Shafrir]

They also. They also used to advertise. I don't. Yeah, we evolved together.

[Elise Hu]

And we have a code for it too. So we will put that in the show notes. Because if you are looking for hand creams as gifts or just for yourself this season because everything is parched and your skin is probably parched too. I really like this Evolve Together stuff. Also. Also not an ad. I actually like it.

[Dory Shafrir]

I am also a big fan of the skin fix Eczema plus hand relief cream.

[Elise Hu]

Oh. Is it in a small tube or is it giant or tell me how.

[Dory Shafrir]

It'S a small tube. It's. It's 3 fluid ounces, so you can bring it on a plane, which I like. They also make a like a tiny travel size. And I just. I really like this cream. And I do have eczema, so I don't really get it on my hands. But, you know, I do feel like I have, like, somewhat sensitive skin and it's really nice. I hate scented hand cream, like with a burning passion. And so this is okay.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. Evolve Together does have a light scent, a subtle scent, but it smells.

[Dory Shafrir]

Subtle is okay. It's when it's like a, like overpowering that I'm just like, no, nobody asked for this. I mean, at least I did not Ask for this. Right.

[Elise Hu]

Well, we're going to be coming hot and fast with lots of products in today's episode because today's one of our special quarterly episodes featuring our resident makeup expert to the stars, Rachel Goodwin. Yes.

[Dory Shafrir]

She's such a delight. Everyone who sent in questions, thank you so much. I think she, she got to a lot of them and she's just so wise and has such great wrecks and has such great experience. So we're really excited that she came back on the show. Just as a reminder, she. Her clients include Emma Stone, Priyanka Chopra, Awkwafina, Julia Roberts, Brie Larson, Michelle Dockery, Cindy Crawford, Renee Zellweger, Penelope Cruz. I mean, it's like the list goes on. Her work has been on the covers of Vogue, Vanity Fair, w. Glamour, you know, any. Anyone. She's good at what she does and she is. She's just. She's a wonderful human. Um, before we get to Rachel, just a reminder, you can visit our website, which is forever35podcast.com. We have links there to everything we mentioned on the show, including all of Rachel's recommendations. We're also on Instagram @forever35 podcast. Our Patreon is at patreon.com Forever35, where we do weekly casual chats, monthly pop culture roundups. We have chats on the Patreon app. It's a good time over there. You can shop our favorite products@shopmy us.forever35, I think we have a shelf with Rachel's Rex.

[Elise Hu]

We have a shelf with Rachel's Rex. And I should also mention we have our new shelf up for our 2024 holiday gift guide. So if you haven't checked out our 2024 holiday gift guide, which we just put out a week, a week and a half ago, please check that out. That's on our site, forever35podcast.com but also on our Shop My page so that you can just shop everything on one place.

[Dory Shafrir]

And we have our [e-mail] newsletter and you can call or text us at 781-591-0390 and email us at forever35podcastmail.com and we're going to take a little break and we will be right back with Rachel.

[Elise Hu]

We'll be right back.

[Dory Shafrir]

Let's make a resolution to save more money in 2025. I gotta say, every year we make resolutions. Some we stick to, some we don't. I've tried to keep my desk clean and, yeah, never quite make it through the year. Never quite make it through the month, but when you can make things automatic, that's how you make resolutions stick. Acorns makes it easy to start automatically saving and investing so your money has a chance to grow for you, your kids and your retirement. With just five minutes, you can set up a healthy money habit that takes others years to learn. You don't need to be an expert. Acorns will recommend a diversified portfolio that fits you and your money goals. You don't need to be rich. Acorns lets you invest with the spare money you've got right now. You can start with $5 or even just your spare change. You don't need to feel like financial wellness is impossible. Acorns gives you small, simple steps to get you and your money on track. Head to acorns.comforever35 or download the Acorns app to start saving and investing for your future today. Paid client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns tier one compensation provided investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. View important [e-mail] Forever35 this episode is.

[Elise Hu]

Brought to you by Better Help December is all about getting cozy. I already feel cozy, whether it means warm beverages, soft blankets or time with your loved ones. And I think you should consider adding therapy to your list too, if you're not already seeing a therapist. Knowing I can talk to somebody about anything has always been a comfort to me when I'm in therapy. Learning coping skills, boundary setting, or even just a little bit more about myself brings me comfort. It's also helped me grow over the years to better know myself. It's strengthened my relationships. It is comfort that never goes away, even when the season changes. So if you're thinking of starting therapy, you can give better help a try. It's entirely online. It's designed to be convenient and flexible. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Find comfort this December with better help. Visit betterhelp.com forever35 today to get 10% off your first month. That's better. H E L p.com forever35.

[Advertiser]

They say opposites attract. That's why the Sleep number Smart Bed is the best bed for couples. You can each choose what's right for you whenever you like. You like a bed that feels firm, but they want soft. Sleep number does that. You want to sleep cooler while they like to feel warm. Sleep number does that too. Why choose a Sleep number Smart bed so you can choose your ideal comfort on either side. And now it's the lowest price of the season on the top selling i8 smart your best savings plus special financing limited time shop a sleep number store near you See store or sleepnumber.com for details. Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era or yoga era, dive into peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kids game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with peloton. Find your push, find your power peloton visit1peloton.com.

[Elise Hu]

Rachel Goodwin, welcome back to Forever 35.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Thank you. So happy to be here.

[Elise Hu]

We're so privileged to have you here as kind of our quarterly our makeup artist in residence.

[Rachel Goodwin]

I love that. I love that.

[Elise Hu]

And it's been about a quarter since the last time you were on and so a lot of questions have piled up for you.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Okay, okay, I'm ready. I'm feeling, I'm feeling very ready.

[Dory Shafrir]

I will ask this first one. This listener writes, I don't know if this is something Rachel would necessarily have the expertise on, but I've often wondered if you were only going to buy one or two quote unquote clean products, which should you grab, similar to the dirty dozen of produce. Like many clean versions I've tried underperform for my needs. So which would be best to try and find a winner. Thanks.

[Rachel Goodwin]

I think what the good news is is that in the last five years specifically I have noticed that, you know, there used to be this really hefty choice we had to make between like performance and whether it was something was going to be harmful to us. And I think that bridge has been really kind of, you know, there's been a bridge built that's pretty sturdy at this point. Like there's performance products that actually made with minimal ingredients or at least the ingredients that we have known to become harmful have been eliminated from them. You know, back in the day we would just use whatever worked because we needed it to work and we kind of went, well, we'll suffer the consequences later if we, you know, it's like. And it was a really terrible choice to have to make. But nowadays I love brands like There's a Stick by Ilya that is, I think, as good as any other hardcore concealer out there that you can use and push and pull, meaning like you can make it very, very sheer. You can make it really cover a full coverage stick. And it's made with all natural ingredients that I think it's like that brand has done a really good job of creating a really sweet little niche where it's like performance and natural. I love, I love a skincare brand called Monastery, which uses mostly florals and botanicals. I'm a big fan. Again, it isn't someone. It's not a brand for someone who can't use any, any kind of fragrance because it does have natural fragrance. But I have never reacted to any of it and I'm very, very sensitive to those things. She's. She is a esthetician who created the line herself for her, for her clients. So she's incredibly. And she had very sensitive skin. So she created it really for herself and then for her clients. And now I feel like they're really special as far as the brand that's natural and performs well. And then I also love. I'm really, I have to say, for the most sensitive skin, the Outset, which is a brand that came out a few years ago that's founded by Scarlett Johansson and her partner Kate, who is a skin who had been in the skin care space and beauty space for a long time previously. And they, I mean, she created it really scarlet because she was on set all the time and had to use. All the people were using all these products on her and her skin was breaking out. And so those products are no fragrance. They're very, very clean and they really work too. So those are some just like one off the top of my head that I would say like 100% those are effective and very, very, very simplistic as well, ingredient wise.

[Dory Shafrir]

Can I ask a follow up to that? I think, I think one of the things she was asking is like, if I'm only going to use two clean products, should it be like my lipstick or my eyeshadow or my body cream? Like, is there a specific type of product that is better to get clean?

[Rachel Goodwin]

Lipstick, for sure. I feel like I'm going to just go on the record and say anything you eat that goes not only just on top of your skin, but into your mouth and into your digestive system, I would say was like the absolute number one that I would say should be clean. And there's Kosas, there's Ilia, there are, there's brands like Tata Harper that makes incredible. I mean, there's a lot of brands that do it well and we don't have to compromise at all anymore. And Then the second one, what I would say is probably, yes, body, anything body where you're like large swaths of skin are being. Yes. And I think, you know, because you got to think that everything you put on your skin in. On your skin's going in your bloodstream. So I love, I, you know, one of the. It's been around. She's one of the pioneers of the clean beauty movement really was Josie Moran. Her Argan oil. She has a body butter that is just like, you could eat it. You can literally eat it. So I use that. And yeah, I'm pretty diligent about the body products and the lip products that I use.

[Elise Hu]

Okay, great. And listeners, just a reminder, we will have everything that Rachel recommends on our show notes so that you can click on them. But also we have a special page on our shop my that has the Rachel Goodwin recommendations also. So everything is getting filed away as Rachel lists things out. All right, next question. Kind of broad, Rach. You can take it however you'd like. Under eye makeup, what are all the things we 40 somethings should know?

[Rachel Goodwin]

Ooh. Well, I think I still am a very much less is more person. I like to use really potent formulas that are very, very hydra. Hydrating I. That almost act as dual. Like they're, they're products that you can use as like, effectively treatment and, you know, hiding or concealing, whatever you want to say. My favorite over 40 product that's come out in the last year has been by Sarah Creel. She has a under eye cream that kind of has a little tint in it and it is. Oh, my God. It has a really funny name that I'm spacing on right now. It looks like almost like a sport. It's like very sporty looking. God, what's the name? I'm going to find it, don't worry. But her eye cream and concealer duo situation is epic. Really, really, really gorgeous. And made specifically for women 40 and up. And yet, you know, you can, anyone can use it. But I feel like it's just such a beautiful formula. Like, I can't. I can't say enough about it. I'm a giant fan.

[Elise Hu]

Is there anything we should know about application?

[Rachel Goodwin]

I think when it comes to application, you know, it's. It.

[Elise Hu]

I.

[Rachel Goodwin]

When I apply makeup either on myself or on someone else, I use it really strategically. And I think that we tend to sort of think we're going to swipe concealer on. I usually do dots. Three dots right on the actual circle itself. Not out here by my crow's feet or anything like that. I usually just do it. I dot it right on the actual. You can feel the bone where your eye is, where your socket begins, and it's like dot, dot, dot, you know, right out to the iris of the eye. And that's where I end it. So that the amount of makeup that you're using on the outside outer third of the eye is actually minimized, because the more makeup you have on the outer third of your eye, toward where your eye does crease from smiling and so on, I would never want to, you know, we're not trading and smiling for concealer. I hate to tell you guys, I'm like, laughter matters more. But if we want to be looking cute while we smile, we want not to be getting all this extra product into areas that it's just products naturally have to migrate. If there was any crease, it's going to migrate there. It's just a natural way of anything that sits on top of the skin is eventually going to move. So it's just a way to sort of safeguard that just to create a little, you know, stop gap from that happening. And I just focus the amount of product on the inner, you know, inside of the eye, all the way up out to the iris, and then just gently blend it out on the rest.

[Elise Hu]

Okay, Very helpful.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

Okay. This question is for Rachel, but also sort of for Elise, so you can both answer it. Okay, this. This listener writes, I'm a minimalist when it comes to makeup. Concealer, mascara, blush, and boy brow does it for me. But my daughter, who just turned 11, is very into makeup. I'm wondering what kinds of conversations I should be having with her at this age about makeup and if there are any cautions or boundaries you think about in terms of young girls wearing makeup. I know people make their kids wait until certain ages to wear makeup in many families, but I'm struggling to articulate an ethic around it that makes any sense to me. At the same time, I worry that if I'm too permissive, I might be overlooking something that could cause her harm, and maybe I should be more restrictive about it. Elise, what is your approach with your kids? Since I think they are approaching tweendom as well. Thanks in advance. So grateful for Forever35.

[Elise Hu]

I have one sort of built in safeguard, which is they don't get a whole lot of money, and so they can't buy all of the things that they want to buy. Like right now, among the TikTok tweens, the drunk elephant products are very popular. Or they've been popular for a while, but there's no way any of my daughters could afford those. They're like $78. But I can't really say that I have a clear ethic around it, except to be educated around kind of what is being promoted to the kids. For them to be kind of socially social media literate is really key. One of the reasons why we're seeing skin care tweens rise up is because of TikTok and the promotion of skin or skin care products. In the same way that fashion trends come and go. Like, what used to be happening on our clothes is now happening on our faces. And so that's really hard to avoid their exposure of all of this stuff unless they're staying off social media. There's limits around what they're seeing there. But then also they're educated about what they are seeing and, like, kind of savvy about that. So that's a lot of conversations. That's a lot of getting curious with your kids and seeing what they're up to and making sure that that trust between you and your. I assume it's daughters, that line of trust, that line of communication is open. I am finding that even though there are a lot of things that are kind of in the ether for skincare girlies out there, they have really limited. It seems to be the case that they're really limited into, like, scents. They're into the Sol de Janeiro scents, and they're into, like, lip oils and things. And so it's not concealer. It's not foundation. It's not all the stuff. It's not caked on stuff. It's not eyeshadows or anything like that. It's the Elf lip oil, which is affordable. It's a lot of. It's like wearing Cerave sunscreen in the morning. It's making sure they brush their teeth and wash their face. So all of that is, like, still in the realm of healthy grooming, which I am not that concerned about. But, yeah, I mean, I am just as eager and curious as everybody else who, as a parent, as. Who has tweens and is thinking about, okay, what. How do we articulate something around this? So I joined this listener in the conversation, and so far, it's just about sort of keeping the lines of communication open. Modeling not being too appearance focused. I think modeling, like, what I do is so much more important than what I say. And that's kind of like where I'm at currently. But again, work in progress. This is evolving. Rachel, what about you?

[Rachel Goodwin]

I have two boys, one that is 12 going on 13. So I am seeing, you know, that not only him, but his friends. Friends and all of the girls in his, you know, that he knows in his class and so on and out there, sort of, you know, what their influences are. For me, makeup was vital to, you know, it was sort of a survival tool that became a career because I was, you know, I was immersed in a world that was sort of music and. And all of the MTV stuff. When I was about 11, I think I remember that's when it clicked for me that makeup had a. It had a way, a form. It was a form of self expression. It related to music that I liked and celebrities that I was, you know, in awe of. And I. So I think that that's a tale as old as time. I think when it goes back even further, you know, if we're out of, like, modern history, we go into, you know, we're not talking about pop culture, but we're talking about prior to that, where makeup was used mainly as a form of ritual or a form of connection or a form of sort of, you know, we had like, rites of passage and things like that. We don't have those anymore. And I think from a cultural standpoint, I find it really interesting to see how trans trends manifest because we need those rites of passage and we need those types of touchstones, right. For our own stories and our own expressions and our own way of how we're forming, our ability, our relationships with ourselves, how we see ourselves. And so I'm fascinated by it, but I.

[Elise Hu]

And I.

[Rachel Goodwin]

But I don't. I'm not dealing with it directly, but I will say that when I was a little girl, makeup and experimentation with makeup was way for me to figure out where I fit and how I fit. Yeah, yeah. There's got to be a way to.

[Elise Hu]

Delicately say, you can't come down too hard on that. Right. Like that artistic expression part of it. And that's kind of the. That's the. The duality in beauty culture. Right. So much of it can be a form of self expression. It can be a. A path towards finding yourself or a deeper version of yourself. But then so much of it can be very consumerist, and it can be driven by wanting to conform or compete, and we don't want our adolescents to be stuck in that or get caught on the treadmill of that. And so.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Which is why your book was so fascinating to me. I loved your book because that's exactly what you talk about. You talk about all the ways in which it manifests culturally and societally and from a female perspective. It's a dance. I don't know that anybody gets it perfectly right, but I will say I had a gateway cosmetic. And imagining that the drunk elephant is today's Bonnie Bell Lip Smacker. Whatever. It's just a lot more expensive. You know what I mean? I'm like, oh, God, they. They've really grown it up. But I don't like messaging that says, there's something wrong with you. Fix it. But what I do like is a girl experimenting with her own likes and her own dislikes and finding out for herself what makes her feel connected and good and her best self. So I dance between the two, and I would just say, you know, ask a lot of questions, ask what their intentions are. You know, we have to find a way to give our kids, like, the room to play and to be experimental, but also to let them know, hey, these things have ramifications in the world.

[Dory Shafrir]

So we're just going to take a short break and we will be right back.

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[Elise Hu]

All right, Rach, back to a product question for you. All right, a bit of background from this listener. I'm six months postpartum and with number two. And in my mid-40s. My skin was always super sensitive and red, but even more so with the extra hormones and aging. My maternity leave ends next week, so I splurged on a fancy facial. The esthetician used a bio. Biologique.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yes.

[Elise Hu]

Oh, there it is. Yes, she loved the result. But it's $250. Anyone know of a similar product at a better price point?

[Rachel Goodwin]

Oh, okay, hold on, hold up. Well, here's the thing. Yes and no. Like, those particular products are hard to mimic only because they use a. They use their ingredients that they use, and those things cost a lot, and so therefore, they cost a lot. Down the trick. It trickles down to the customer. So it's ingredient based and all of that. They're not. They're. They're a French luxury brand that actually are a performance brand. And I think that they do stand behind what they actually put in there. Has real quantifiable results for sure. I would say if you want to get something that has that sort of feel to it that isn't as expensive. Who. There are some French, like what are they called? Like pharmacy lines that are. The drugstore line. So I want to say aven. It's a V E N E has a lot of really great products that are very performance based. They are drugstore products in France and they now sell them here and they. They are quite effective and can. There are some very good sensitive skin products there. There is as far as the. There's a couple products that they make that I'm like, is there an equivalent? I know that the one that I love and everyone does is this is like feto sort of. It's a. It's like almost like a. Not a primer, but like it's a toner and everybody loves it and it's very. It helps your. It helps your skin to exfoliate and it sort of creates like a beautiful base for the rest of your products. And I think the closest thing I. There are really, really great products out there now. There's one by April Skin. It's a sake toner. And I don't know how much it is, but I will say that it does a similar softening and. And exfoliation process.

[Elise Hu]

Okay.

[Rachel Goodwin]

It doesn't smell the same. It actually smells really nice though. And. And I love it. So there's other things you can use that are not exactly that. That will be half. At least half the price for sure.

[Elise Hu]

Okay. And we'll link them in the show.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Not.

[Dory Shafrir]

Okay, question. What is skin tint and do I need it? Is it serum foundation? Is it BB cream? If I have a BB cream that I love, would a skin tint give me anything different? Same, different name. Thanks.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Same, different name. I mean, listen, I want to say like it's. It's some radical. You know, it's like I know how the marketing piece of our. Of our business works and you know, there's different BB cream I believe has more maybe skin benefits possibly than a skin tint because they're adding in other things. But I kind of tend to think that at the end of the day it really comes into type of skin you have time of year what you're looking for. Some women are like, I am not putting on sunscreen and foundation and concealer. That's not happening. So they pick the one thing and simply simplify. If you want your sunscreen in your skin tint, you know, you can find a formula that will do that. I think that it really comes down to what kind of person are you? And. And. And again, you know, skin tints tend to have very little coverage. That's really what they're saying. They're saying they're not covering up particularly. They're. They're giving your skin a bit of a hue. They're going to warm it up. They're going to maybe give you, like, if you're talking from a. Coverage from, say we're doing like zero to ten, they're going to give you a three or a four times. Got it. So if you're someone who really wants to cover up redness or wants a really more polished look, skin tints aren't for you. But I think that, you know, formulas are. Can be. They can trick you with just the name because they want to get you to be interested. And so I think if you're looking to warm your skin or just have a really casual, easy, not a lot of coverage, you know, foundation, great. Use your skin tone. I use it a lot in the. In the warmer months because I like to little add a little bit more. I go like a shade deeper than my actual skin to give it a little glow. They're great. They're great for that.

[Elise Hu]

Awesome.

[Rachel Goodwin]

No difference, though.

[Dory Shafrir]

Okay. I love this. I feel like you just blew the lid off this conspiracy.

[Rachel Goodwin]

So didn't you talk about at least like, CC cream, BB cream? Like, it's like, you know, out.

[Elise Hu]

They're up to DD and ee. Oh, my God. All right, next question. The listener says, I am 55, and I'm looking for a good hydrating serum that does not contain hyaluronic acid. My skin does not love it. For some reason, it makes me drier. Even when I use a face mist before I apply, every hydrating serum seems to contain this ingredient. Please help. It's getting cold here in the northeast, and my skin is getting drier by the moment. Rachel.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Gosh. You know, I never really thought about this, but I would imagine almost every serum I know of contains hyaluronic acid. Because essentially what it's doing is it's trying to pump water back into the skin. You know, that's. It goes on underneath, and it's. It's a. It's A, you know, a barrier creates this like. Well, you know, and then you seal things on top. But here's what I will say. There's two things I love when the weather gets really cold. And there's two creams that I tend to go to that are not serums per se, but they are very, very, very useful in my. In my routine. And one is the Jouer barrier cream. Cannot say enough about this cream. You will be. You will not have dry skin this winter, I promise you.

[Dory Shafrir]

It's.

[Rachel Goodwin]

It. It completely is just. It's nourishing, hydrating. It gives your skin like a really, like, just dewy feel without feeling sticky. And it. It keeps your skin barrier from breaking down. It's really amazing. I. I can't say enough about it. I was sent it year, like two years ago now. I think it's been out and ever since then. I have one in my bag. I have one, you know, I never go anywhere without it. And then the second one would be a brand called Chuda, and that is a. Some people use it for slugging. It's more of a. It's not necessarily a serum because serums are again, like, you know, you stated they're going to have hyaluronic. Almost everyone I know of does. But I think the Tudor one is more of like a. It has a denser feel, but it is also one of those things where it's like, it will. It will seal in the moisture of your natural skin without you having to add more in. And it will keep what you have protected. So those would. That's what I would suggest.

[Elise Hu]

Very cool. Yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

Hot tips. Okay. Hi. I'm in my mid-40s and have pretty dark under eye circles. They are likely genetic. When I apply concealer now, it inevitably gets caked into the fine lines around my eyes. I do moisturize and apply sunscreen before putting on makeup. And the concealer I use is pretty creamy. I alternate between tarte shape tape and sometimes clay depot concealer stick. Any suggestions?

[Rachel Goodwin]

So, you know, there's two things at odds right there. So if you have pretty dark circles, you need to use a product that's, you know, got a pigment, you know, pretty rich pigment, dense pigment in it to cancel it out. But then how do you use that and not put on a lot? You know, how do you, you know, so it's more about like trying to figure out how you use the least amount possible to get that desired effect and. And not have it migrate around whatever you, you know, you wanted to stay. And so There's. There's two things there. There's one thing I would say that I really love. Kevin Aucoin Skin Enhancer. It's. It's almost like I want. I know that we've. I don't know if you. If they've ever. If anyone here has ever used Dermablend to care. Cover something really serious. I use Dermablender in my kit when I'm on set. I mean, I can cover tattoos with it. I can cover. I could literally do. There's nothing. Bruises, you know, tattoos that.

[Elise Hu]

Like scars. Right. They use that. Makeup artists tend to use that stuff.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Exactly. And so it's a. It's a product that we use that's totally performance based. I have no idea what's in it, so I won't recommend. It's a professional product. But that said, this Cabinet Quan Skin Enhancer has the level of coverage that a Dermablend has. It's a much finer product, though. It is. It's almost like it's a cream. So when you use it, you put it on the back of your hand, you use the. You have to use the littlest, tiniest amount to get the coverage. And then again, I would do that technique we spoke about earlier, which is keeping it on the inner. You know. Third, don't really go past the iris with application. Keep the bulk of your. Of the. Of the application on the inside into the middle of the eye and then just blend a little on the outside. So you're really just getting the coverage absolutely where you need it. The other trick I use specifically for. And I used to use it for photographs, but I don't need to anymore because we've got filters galore for red carpets is when someone has something that really needs to not show up in a photograph or. I use Makeup Forever's hd. It's like HD foundation powder. And it comes in a tin. You could. It's refillable, which is great. It is high coverage. It is very finely milled, so it just. It goes on very smooth and you can dab it on over your concealer so that it stays and it photographs beautifully. And sometimes I'll even just use that as concealer and nothing else. Honestly, if I'm just in a rush, I'll just pat it on underneath my eyes and it just kind of like cancels things out. It's a matte finish, though, not a. It doesn't have any reflection, but it's great for having your photo taken.

[Elise Hu]

Pictures. Yeah. So it's actually kind of like a powder that you're using as a concealer?

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yes. It's excellent. It's excellent. There's also a wonderful product that a friend of mine who's a makeup artist named Quinn Murphy invented called Spatch. And Spatch is a powder concealer as well. And you can use it just very, very, very strategically under your eyes, so you. You press it on, and it's like it just creates. My whole thing as a makeup artist is I want to use the least amount of product that's the most effective, and so I'm always looking for products that will do that. And as a makeup artist, Quinn created something very wonderful because that's exactly what it is. You just take a little brush, and you put it right on where the darkness is, and you kind of are done. And so things like that, I would say, would be my 2. That would be my. My recommendations for that.

[Dory Shafrir]

Okay, Great tips, excellent hacks.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yay.

[Elise Hu]

Okay, Rach, we're getting near the end of our time together, and. And I will end with a question that I did not send in, but could have been from me, because I relate to this question. As an elder millennial who first learned to do makeup in the late 1900s, what are some specific ways in which I can refresh my makeup look for the current century? Even though my makeup look is pretty natural, I sometimes wonder if I'm accidentally dating myself, because I haven't really change things up very much in the last two decades or so.

[Rachel Goodwin]

If we're. If we're looking at it through the, like, a long lens, we're like, okay, well, our mom, you know, maybe our. Our moms would wear the same lipstick for, like, decades or something like that. It's a frosted finish. And now we've moved on to mattes or something like that. But, you know, in this. In this world we're in, everything is kind of open. It's up for grabs. I feel like the only thing I see that looks particularly dated right now are very strong block brows and hard, hard creases and things like that. Very Instagram early Instagram adaptation of, like, the makeup influencer look. I think that even Kim Kardashian is, like, moved on from all of the, like, that really overly bronze thing, too. And I think as women, we do find signature things we know work for us, and I think that's okay. You should have, like, a couple signature things you can pull out quick that, you know are just great for you, specifically, whether it's your signature red shade that you always wear to dinner parties or whatever. Or you. Or, you know, like, I'm always better with an eye because I don't want to think about my lips. It's like, I think we should have our own things that just serve us and our lifestyle. I think trends become really glaring as we get older, because it doesn't really. I'm. I'm talking recently my assistant's coming over because she's like, you need to get on TikTok because everybody's talking about the, you know, the Olsen twins and the early aughts, and you did all that, so you should be talking about it.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, the early aughts and like, 2000s. Fashion is very hot right now among all the tweens and teens. And so I guess you were doing the makeup for the Olsen twins at that time when they was that when they were in the films, like the TV rappers.

[Rachel Goodwin]

I did all of them. The Hillary Dust and the Avril Lavigne's and the Olsen twins. And like, that whole time period, I was just like, at the peak of, you know, LA celebrity stuff. And so, I mean, I don't even know how I ended up doing it because I was like, a God off. So it's hilarious that I created the looks for all of the, like, wholesome girlies.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Well, makes no sense at all, but I was giving them my little, My. My little sensibility, I guess. But no, so the girls, like, I was. So they want me to create this, like, eye that I used to do on them a lot, which was like kind of a messy, bronzy eye. I did it a lot for Hillary Duff then, too. I remember. You know, those kinds of. Those kinds of looks were really in. And I think what I did was like, at the time, I was translating my own background passion from the runways into, like, these teeny bopper, you know, girls in la, because I moved out here right in the beginning of it. All trends are fun, but I think as we evolve as women, we become more cognizant of what really is our personal style and how to, you know, how to lean into the things that we know, work for our face, our type of the way we present ourselves. And, like, and I think we get more comfortable with that and not needing to. To follow as many trends. You know, like, I don't look at your face and think, oh, she looks like she's not moved on from, you know.

[Dory Shafrir]

Well, those were all the questions from our listeners. Elise, do you have any other pressing questions that are on your mind that you want to ask Rachel?

[Elise Hu]

Just that I'm so grateful for you, Rachel. I'm so glad that we have you at a regular cadence now so that we can save up questions from our listeners. I know they really appreciate you, too. And we will be talking to you again in the new year in just a few months. So there's going to be more for you. Thanks for being so game. Also, Rach, just for. Because I know we're throwing a lot at you across a wide range of topics.

[Rachel Goodwin]

I really love it. This is so much fun and I love getting to help anybody who is. I know that it's hard for me sometimes to step outside of myself and remember that what is innate to me is something that other women don't understand and don't know about. And I take for granted sometimes the knowledge that I carry about these really, these things that sound so normal to me. And so I'm just happy to be able to share it and be supportive to women who are curious about these things or who need answers to these things because their lives. I mean, I do think we interact with beauty products every single day. And, like, we want to be. We have come a long way from my time when, you know, their ingredients were not as transparent and things were not as transparent. I think consumers are savvier, but we are still kept in the dark about a lot of things and we go through this kind of alone. So. And you don't know who to trust. So I'm just thrilled and honored to be able to be that for your. Your listeners. So thank you for asking.

[Elise Hu]

Fantastic. And we will look for spatch.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yes, check out spatch. It's freaking awesome.

[Elise Hu]

Okay, thanks, Rachel.

[Dory Shafrir]

Thanks, Rachel.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Ladies.

[Dory Shafrir]

All right.

[Elise Hu]

Thank you again to Rachel.

[Dory Shafrir]

Thank you, Rachel. And if you have questions for Rachel's next episode, you can email us at Forever35podcastmail. Call or text us at 781-591-0390. We keep a running document of those questions, so just send them in whenever.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

And if you didn't get your question covered this time, it will be on deck for next time.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yes.

[Elise Hu]

Door. It's time for the intention zone.

[Dory Shafrir]

It is time to. To enter the intention zone. Last week I was talking about ungratitude, which, you know, is kind of the concept that looking for gratitude can sometimes veer into toxic positivity. And it's okay to acknowledge things that are, like, going badly or things that you. You are not grateful for and reflect on those.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

And I can't say that I am, like, making a practice of this, but, you know, I'm Trying to just, like, acknowledge the things that are. That are not great while also being aware of the things that, like, I am grateful for in my life. So I think it's actually a good way to sort of, like, keep that balance.

[Elise Hu]

No, I think darkness gives light its meaning. Right. So we can't. We shouldn't avoid pain because it. It. Without it, you're only really living half of the human experience.

[Dory Shafrir]

Ooh. Yes. Elise.

[Elise Hu]

I'm very Jungian in this way. You know, Carl Jung is, like, all about the dual and things. So.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah, yeah, I'm.

[Elise Hu]

Delve into the darkness. Yeah, delve into the darkness as needed.

[Dory Shafrir]

Delve into the darkness. So this week, you know, we're heading into, like, the holiday season, and we are going to have a pretty long break, you and I. Yeah. And I'm just. I'm trying to figure out, like, what do I want to do during that break? Like, I've been neglected. There's, like, certain work things that I've been neglecting. And I don't want to, like, look back on these three weeks and be like, I really, like, wasted that time. You know what I mean?

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

So what I'm just thinking. I'm thinking about that. I don't have, like, a grand plan yet, but I'm. I'm just trying to, like, think about that. And my. My intention is to figure out how to spend the next few weeks. Yeah, that's it.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Good.

[Elise Hu]

I like it.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

Thanks. My. We. My intention last week was to improve my shoulder and back strength. I think because of my posture issues, I'm always, like, slow forward. As a result, I decided to take a few extra strength training and Pilates classes. And what happened? My shoulder dislocated again.

[Dory Shafrir]

Oh, that's right.

[Elise Hu]

Which our listeners from probably the mini app will know what will recall. So I did try to live out my intention. Only my body resisted it. So now I'm on rest. I am resting. Um, I am not in a sling or anything, but I am kind of resting the shoulder that I was trying to work out to improve my posture. And then it is getting close to the end of the year already, and it is that, like, holiday rush. And so I feel like, as an antidote to rushing around too much and maybe getting injured as a result, I want to set an intention to just, like, pause for reflection on this year. It's been a very full year. I've been all over the place, done a lot of things, and then sometimes when I run into somebody who I haven't seen for a while. They're like, how are you doing? What's up? And I'm just like, where do I even go with this question? And it's because I think I haven't been reflective enough. I've just been kind of moving. And so my intention is just to, like, reflect and maybe journal and. And look back on the year in a more holistic way. So. So I don't forget it because otherwise we're just like, rush, rush, rushing. And then totally. It's like, what do I have to even. How do I even sum this up? We don't do a holiday card that says, like, this year, Ava's in sixth grade. And, you know. And, you know, some people do, like, a family review. And I was actually telling my ex husband, I was like, you know, it's kind of a shame that I don't do that, because I don't. It is a good exercise to be like, this is what everybody's doing. So I'm gonna try and do that without it, without any external purpose, but just to sort of reflect on 2024 for.

[Dory Shafrir]

I love that. That sounds great. Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

We'll check back in next week to see.

[Dory Shafrir]

We will check in for sure. All right, well, thanks, everyone, for listening. Reminder that Forever 35 is hosted and produced by me, Dori Shafrier and Elise Hu, and produced and edited by Sam Hunio. Sammy Reed is our project manager and our network partner is Acast. Thanks, everybody.

[Elise Hu]

Talk to you next time.

[Advertiser]

Bye.