Podcast Title: Forever35
Episode: Episode 338: The Case For Gossip with Kelsey McKinney
Release Date: February 3, 2025
Hosts: Doree Shafrir & Elise Hu
Guest: Kelsey McKinney

Introduction to Friendship Month

Doree Shafrir and Elise Hu kick off the episode by announcing the upcoming Friendship Month, which will focus on various aspects of friendships, such as making new friends, maintaining existing ones, and even ending unhealthy relationships. They encourage listeners to submit their friendship-related questions via call, text, or email, promising expert advice from their guests throughout the month.

Introducing Kelsey McKinney

The primary guest for this episode is Kelsey McKinney, a renowned reporter and writer based in Philadelphia. Kelsey is a co-owner and features writer at Defector.com and the recently retired co-host of the highly acclaimed podcast Normal Gossip. She is also the author of her first novel, Godspare the Girls (2018), and is set to release her nonfiction book, You Didn't Hear This for Me: Mostly True Notes on Gossip, the following week.

Doree:
“At [09:00] Dory Shafrier: Kelsey McKinney, who is our guest, is a reporter and writer who lives in Philadelphia. She is a co-owner and features writer@defector.com and is the newly retired co-host of the wildly popular podcast Normal Gossip.”

Kelsey's Transition from Normal Gossip

Kelsey discusses her decision to step away from Normal Gossip after four years, highlighting the challenges of maintaining a creative project in the volatile landscape of journalism and new media. She expresses confidence in her successor, Rachel Hampton, praising her as a "genius" and "a very upcoming bright star."

Kelsey McKinney:
“At [17:30] Kelsey McKinney: [...] I have been, you know, having an opportunity to have creative thoughts again. Like, when you're so deep in a project that's as big as Normal Gossip, you can't really come up for air.”

The Concept and Evolution of Gossip

Elise Hu steers the conversation toward Kelsey’s upcoming book, asking her to elaborate on the case for gossip—a central theme in the book. Kelsey explains that gossip, often maligned as merely malicious talk, serves a foundational role in human communication and societal functioning.

Kelsey McKinney:
“At [23:36] Kelsey McKinney: [...] gossip is a tool. And you can't. A hammer isn't a moral good or a moral evil. [...] gossip is supposed to be just conversation between two people about someone who's not present. It's not intentionally malicious.”

She delves into the anthropological perspective, citing theories that suggest language evolved primarily as a means to share information about others, which is essential for social cohesion and survival.

Gossip in Pop Culture: Analyzing 'Mean Girls'

Kelsey offers a critical analysis of both the original Mean Girls movie and its recent musical adaptation. She highlights how the removal of serious themes, such as the unethical behavior of a coach, alters the narrative's complexity and moral weight.

Kelsey McKinney:
“At [27:42] Kelsey McKinney: [...] what I was actually trying to do when I was gossiping was try to figure out what I believed. [...] the Burn Book has this kind of deep, ugly truth in it.”

She contends that the original film’s inclusion of serious issues like abuse adds depth, making the story resonate more profoundly compared to the sanitized version in the musical, which lacks these darker elements.

The Weaponization of Gossip in the Digital Age

The conversation shifts to the modern misuse of gossip, especially on social media platforms. Kelsey addresses how the rapid dissemination of rumors and misinformation can lead to harmful conspiracy theories and the spread of false narratives.

Kelsey McKinney:
“At [31:10] Kelsey McKinney: [...] right now, right. [...] it's like, I can go on TikTok and at the most innocuous level, lay out a bunch of Instagram Easter eggs that Taylor Swift has posted and say, reputation Taylor's version is coming next week. Right. And there's actually no basis for that.”

She emphasizes the importance of skepticism, especially when gossip originates from unreliable or distant sources, urging listeners to critically evaluate the validity of the information before accepting or acting upon it.

Behind the Scenes of 'Normal Gossip'

Elise inquires about the process Kelsey and her team followed in verifying and presenting gossip on their podcast. Kelsey clarifies that Normal Gossip was never intended to be a journalistic endeavor but rather a platform to explore emotional truths within stories.

Kelsey McKinney:
“At [38:53] Kelsey McKinney: [...] we would be making all these little adjustments. And those are because we didn't want to hurt anyone. We didn't want the purpose of the podcast was never to hurt anyone or, like, put their shit on display.”

She elaborates on how they transformed real stories by changing names, locations, and details to protect identities while retaining the core emotional essence of each tale.

Personal Impact of Working with Gossip

Kelsey reflects on how her deep engagement with gossip, both professionally and personally, has influenced her perception and approach to it. She admits becoming more skeptical and analytical, often assessing how she would retell stories differently, which adds a layer of introspection to her interactions.

Kelsey McKinney:
“At [42:30] Kelsey McKinney: [...] it's made me a lot more skeptical because I realized, you know, like, everybody believes that they're. The story they heard came from a friend of a friend.”

This critical stance helps her navigate the complexities of modern gossip, ensuring she remains objective and thoughtful in her discussions.

Upcoming Book Tour and Closing Remarks

Kelsey announces her forthcoming book tour, sharing details about the cities she'll be visiting and encouraging listeners to attend her events.

Kelsey McKinney:
“At [43:47] Kelsey McKinney: [...] all of the Tickets are at KelseyandBikkenneybook.com which will show you the huge list of cities.”

Doree and Elise express their enthusiasm for Kelsey’s book and encourage listeners to support her endeavors. The episode concludes with brief personal updates from the hosts about their own self-care practices and intentions for the week.

Notable Quotes

• Kelsey McKinney at [16:00]:
  “I go to a weightlifting gym, which is like strength training. So I've been going to pick up very heavy things and put them back, which has been making me feel better.”

• Kelsey McKinney at [23:36]:
  “I think it's a tool. And you can't. A hammer isn't a moral good or a moral evil. [...] gossip is supposed to be just conversation between two people about someone who's not present.”

• Kelsey McKinney at [31:10]:
  “It's like, I can go on TikTok and at the most innocuous level, lay out a bunch of Instagram Easter eggs that Taylor Swift has posted and say, reputation Taylor's version is coming next week. Right. And there's actually no basis for that.”

• Kelsey McKinney at [38:53]:
  “We were never doing it. Which means that. Okay, what is truth? Right. That's the, like, big question here.”

Conclusion

Episode 338 of Forever35 delves deep into the multifaceted nature of gossip with Kelsey McKinney, exploring its historical significance, cultural impact, and modern-day challenges. Through insightful discussions and personal reflections, Kelsey presents a nuanced perspective on why gossip matters and how it shapes our understanding of truth and relationships. Whether you're fascinated by the mechanics of human communication or interested in the ethical implications of sharing information, this episode offers a comprehensive exploration of gossip's role in our lives.

For More Information:

• Kelsey McKinney's Book Tour: KelseyandBikkenneybook.com
• Forever35 Podcast: Forever35Podcast.com
• Submit Questions: Call or text 781-591-0390 or email forever35podcastmail.com