Episode 346: Rachel Goodwin Returns to Answer Your Makeup Questions

Summary

Forever35 Podcast Episode 346: Rachel Goodwin Returns to Answer Your Makeup Questions

Release Date: March 31, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 346 of Forever35, hosts Doree Shafrir and Elise Hu welcome back their esteemed quarterly guest, celebrity makeup artist Rachel Goodwin. This episode is a deep dive into makeup artistry, addressing listeners' burning questions with Rachel's expert insights. The hosts also share their personal self-care indulgences, setting a relatable and engaging tone for the discussion.

Hosts' Self-Care Indulgences

Before delving into Rachel's makeup expertise, Doree and Elise discuss their favorite self-care treats that help them navigate challenging times.

Doree Shafrir shares her nightly ritual:

"I've been having a bowl of Trader Joe's vanilla ice cream with whipped cream every night." (03:01)

Elise Hu complements with sweet treats and simple joys:

"They also make these brownie sandwiches with the coffee ice cream in between. ... I have balloons from the dollar store that I give to my girls to brighten their day." (05:11)

This segment emphasizes the importance of small, affordable pleasures in maintaining well-being.

Introducing Rachel Goodwin

Rachel Goodwin, a renowned makeup artist to the stars, returns to Forever35 to answer listener questions. With an impressive portfolio that includes clients like Emma Stone, Priyanka Chopra, and Julia Roberts, Rachel brings a wealth of knowledge and experience to the conversation.

Q&A with Rachel Goodwin

1. Emma Stone's Golden Globes Makeup Look

Rachel breaks down Emma Stone’s makeup for the Golden Globes, focusing on achieving a natural yet defined look.

"Natural makeup is actually the hardest thing to do because you have to use rest and pull back. I really focused on the skin. The skin was paramount." (17:03)

She elaborates on enhancing Emma's fair complexion with a subtle tan and painted freckles, aiming for an effortless glow without overpowering her natural beauty.

2. Eczema Care Recommendations

A listener asks for advice on managing eczema as they approach 40.

"I would just say you stay away from fragrance. ... Clinical has a recovery balm cream that I love for calming the skin." (23:11)

Rachel emphasizes fragrance-free products and recommends specific balms to soothe irritated skin.

3. The Necessity of Contouring for Everyday Makeup

Rachel shares her perspective on contouring, balancing between enhancing facial features and maintaining a natural appearance.

"It's about finding the sweet spot for yourself. Controlled lighting on YouTube and TikTok allows for more dramatic contouring, but for daily use, a gentler approach is better." (23:43)

She advocates for subtle contouring to add dimension without looking overdone.

4. Applying Makeup with Fingers vs. Brushes

Rachel discusses the benefits of using fingers for makeup application, drawing from her fashion makeup background.

"Fingers move makeup into your skin in a very different way than a brush. It looks like a part of you versus sitting on top of your skin." (25:57)

She encourages embracing finger application for a more integrated and natural look, while acknowledging the precision that brushes can offer when needed.

5. Blush Placement Across Generations

Addressing differing trends in blush placement, Rachel explains the functional and stylistic aspects influenced by face shape and personal preference.

"Historically, blush makes a woman look more vibrant. High fashion blush drapes up the cheekbone for a sophisticated look, while some modern trends place blush across the nose." (31:20)

She emphasizes adapting blush techniques to suit individual facial structures and desired aesthetics.

6. The Role of Beauty Blenders

Rachel defends the use of beauty blenders, highlighting their purpose in achieving a flawless base without masking natural skin.

"Base is meant to reveal a new version of your skin, not erase it. The beauty blender helps apply and blend product for a seamless finish." (34:44)

She praises the sponge's ability to create an even, natural-looking complexion.

7. Necessity of Lip Liner

Rachel affirms the importance of lip liner in enhancing lipstick longevity and defining lip shape.

"Lip liner can keep your lipstick on longer and help define your lip shape. It's a tool that adds to the overall integrity of your lip color." (37:07)

She encourages its use as a way to refine and maintain lip makeup throughout the day.

8. Long-Lasting Eyelash Glue Recommendations

A listener seeks advice on durable eyelash glue. Rachel addresses common issues and suggests ensuring lashes are applied to clean, oil-free skin.

"Make sure you're applying them to your natural lashes without any product on them. Oils can break down the glue, so start with a clean surface." (40:48)

She underscores the importance of preparation and technique in achieving long-lasting eyelash extensions.

9. Preventing Foundation Clumping and Creasing

Rachel offers strategies to minimize foundation buildup and prevent creasing, especially after sunscreen application.

"Use the least amount of product possible with highly pigmented formulas. Focus on covering specific areas rather than the entire face to avoid excess product in creases." (42:54)

She recommends a minimalist approach to layering products for a fresh, enduring finish.

10. Creating Glowing Skin with Makeup

Rachel outlines her method for achieving a natural glow using layering techniques and selective product application.

"Create dimensionality with sheer layers and focus light on areas like cheekbones and the bridge of the nose. Finish with a balm or face oil for a dewy finish." (46:55)

Her approach balances radiance with a subtle, refined appearance.

Closing Remarks

The episode concludes with heartfelt thanks to Rachel Goodwin for her invaluable insights and to the listeners for their continued support. The hosts also acknowledge their Patreon supporters, highlighting the community aspect of the Forever35 podcast.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Doree Shafrir on Self-Care:

  "I've been having a bowl of Trader Joe's vanilla ice cream with whipped cream every night." (03:01)

• Rachel Goodwin on Natural Makeup:

  "Natural makeup is actually the hardest thing to do because you have to use rest and pull back." (17:03)

• Rachel on Lip Liner:

  "Lip liner can keep your lipstick on longer and help define your lip shape." (37:07)

• Rachel on Beauty Blenders:

  "Base is meant to reveal a new version of your skin, not erase it." (34:44)

• Rachel on Blush Placement:

  "High fashion blush drapes up the cheekbone for a sophisticated look." (31:20)

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Conclusion

Episode 346 of Forever35 offers a rich exploration of contemporary makeup techniques and trends through Rachel Goodwin's expert lens. The thoughtful Q&A session provides listeners with practical advice, enhancing their beauty routines while emphasizing natural elegance. Coupled with the hosts' candid discussions on self-care, this episode serves as both an informative and uplifting addition to the Forever35 series.

Transcript

[Rachel Goodwin]

Race the rudders.

[Dory Shafrier]

Race the sails. Race the sails.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching. Over. Roger, wait.

[Dory Shafrier]

Is that an enterprise sales solution?

[Elise Hu]

Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title and more. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started today at LinkedIn.com results, terms and conditions apply.

[Dory Shafrier]

You know, before I lived in la, I traveled to la and those trips back and forth showed me that they don't call it the City of Angels for nothing. The sky is blue, the weather is gorgeous, and the food is amazing. Los Angeles chefs and mixologists draw inspiration from their varied cultural backgrounds and the city's diverse neighborhoods, making for a really exciting food scene. From game changing taco trucks to Michelin stars. If you're not a foodie, LA also has diverse cultures and communities that collaborate and mingle, elevating new voices in art, music, film and comedy. Did you know that Los Angeles has more museums and theaters than New York? From trailblazing street art to world class museums, art is everywhere in la. Plus, LA knows how to put on a show. The worlds of sports and entertainment collide to create the kinds of events that could only happen here. Wherever you are in the city, you're never far from the Next only in LA Moment. Find more ways to love [e-mail] hello and welcome to Forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Dory Shafrier.

[Sam Hunio]

And I'm Elise Hu. And we are two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.

[Dory Shafrier]

It's true. Welcome to the show.

[Sam Hunio]

Welcome back everybody. And today we are very excited because we have one of our quarterly recurring. Our one quarterly recurring guest, the makeup artist to the stars, Rachel Goodwin is back on with us today. And we also had some feedback from one of our longtime listeners and Patreon supporters about how, you know, during these very whack, tumultuous dark times, she kind of wanted like an escape and to think about just indulgences. And so we thought that, you know, we always do a check in before we get into the guest. We thought that maybe during this check in that we could talk about some of our favorite things right now that are helping us get through the tough times. Um, and they don't have to be products, they don't have to be things that cost a lot of money, but they can be. So I'm just curious. Door. What are you doing? Like, what are some of your favorite treats or Indulgences that you're taking advantage of to just kind of help get through.

[Dory Shafrier]

I've been having a bowl of Trader Joe's vanilla ice cream with whipped cream every night.

[Sam Hunio]

Ooh, with whipped cream.

[Dory Shafrier]

With whipped cream. The whipped cream is crucial, I think, I feel.

[Sam Hunio]

Yes. That makes it a treat. Yes. You know, the extra.

[Dory Shafrier]

Exactly. Sometimes I cut up some strawberries if I'm feeling, like, ambitious and. And put them in. And I have occasionally been like, I should get some hot fudge. Like really turn this into a sundae.

[Sam Hunio]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrier]

But I haven't done that yet. But, yeah, every night I have like a. Like a small bowl of Trader Joe's vanilla ice cream, which is delicious. And I have your favorite. I'm a bit of a vanilla ice cream snob.

[Sam Hunio]

Mm.

[Dory Shafrier]

And I do find the Trader Joe's one to be quite good. And I get the big tub of it. So. Yeah, it's. Yeah. So that's one of my current indulgences. How about you?

[Sam Hunio]

So just to build on the Trader Joe's confection category here of our indulgences, they also make. I think I might have spoken about this in a Patreon episode. They also make these brownie sandwiches with the coffee ice cream in between. Have you seen those? They are ice cream sandwiches with brownies on the outside, and then the inside is coffee ice cream. And it's pretty intense and I think very caffeinated. But since you had me thinking about sweet treats, quite literally, then that's mine. But I discovered recently in my period of austerity that you can go to like a dollar tree or in my neighborhood, it's a dollar tree. But I'm guessing this is at other dollar stores. Our balloons, like heart balloons I've gotten. Or you can get birthday ones for the birthday people in your life and just bring them home. And so. And for. For a dollar or two dollars. And so every once in a while for the last couple of weeks, I'll just like, on a Friday or a random Tuesday, go and just get balloons and then give my girls a balloon. Or I have one in my room right now that's just like this giant balloon to try and, like, cheer me up.

[Dory Shafrier]

That's so fun.

[Sam Hunio]

And it's like a dollar, so that feels good. And then something that I learned from or a product that I learned about from Ava Hugh Styles, the 12 year old is the elf lip oil. I love my elf lip oil. I'm putting that on top of everything now. Sometimes I'll skip lipstick. I'll just do, like, lip liner and then an ELF lip oil. It's really, like, nice, shiny coverage that lasts, probably because of the lip liner. So the E, L, F lip oil is also a nice little treat.

[Dory Shafrier]

I love that.

[Sam Hunio]

The other thing is, I talked about coffee ice cream sandwiches, but I usually don't like to. I'm not a big coffee drinker, as you know, unless I'm drinking it socially. Like, you and I are meeting up for a coffee and then I'll have a latte.

[Dory Shafrier]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Sam Hunio]

And then also buying an ice latte these days, I think is seven or eight dollars. And so it's very expensive. But now because of these dark times and the failing and flailing economy, I'm just sort of like it. I'm just having. I'm just treating myself to more purchased coffee at a coffee shop because it's a little break. I can walk my dog over to a local coffee shop. I have to shell out $8. But yes, it just. It's a treat, you know? And so I'm just like, you know what? I'm doing it.

[Dory Shafrier]

Totally.

[Sam Hunio]

My dollar is probably worth more now than it will be six months from now, so I might as well just. Just spend it. So I'm just doing it. I'm doing it, folks.

[Dory Shafrier]

I'm happy for you. I actually do want to mention something that was sent to me. They're not an advertiser, but this was gifted to me, so I just wanted to mention that. But do you remember, I don't know if you ever watched the show My Unorthodox Life?

[Sam Hunio]

No. What was.

[Dory Shafrier]

Was a. It was a reality show about this woman who had grown up, like, super Orthodox Jewish and gotten married young and had four kids. And then she left the sect and had married this Italian guy who was, like, a multi millionaire and then lived in this, like, huge, fancy Tribeca penthouse.

[Sam Hunio]

Wow.

[Dory Shafrier]

Yeah. So. And like. And then they got divorced. Whatever. So she had this, like, very glamorous life, but had come from this, like, completely different background. And she recently launched a. Like, a shapewear company. And they sent me their bra, their wireless bra. And I'm, like, actually kind of obsessed with it. It's called. It's called the Perfect Bra. And here's what I like about a lot. I feel like a lot of brands that have wireless bras or, like, Bralettes.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yes.

[Dory Shafrier]

They don't. The sizes are just, like, small, medium, large. Like, you could be an A cup or a G cup. And you just have to, like, get like, an xl if you are a bigger cup. But that might like, you might have a small band size and that does. So she has like extra small up to 3x but then in cup sizes also. So there's like extra small, a b extra small cd. So I was able to get like a cup size that fit my cup size and a band that like the appropriate size band. And it's a wireless bra and it's so comfortable, so I'm really into it.

[Sam Hunio]

What is the brand?

[Dory Shafrier]

Oh, sorry. It's called Bodi by Julia.

[Sam Hunio]

Okay. Because my daughter Ava has been looking for more wireless bras because she doesn't like, she's not down with the, with the underwire.

[Dory Shafrier]

So yeah, she's got it. She's got to try this.

[Sam Hunio]

Okay.

[Dory Shafrier]

So this is her new venture. I was admittedly sort of like, okay, whatever. I'm sure this will be like not that great. And then I was like, oh, I actually like love this bra, so.

[Sam Hunio]

Oh, good.

[Dory Shafrier]

That's my wreck.

[Sam Hunio]

Love it when that happens.

[Dory Shafrier]

I love it when that happens too. All right, well, we want to hear from you about any like, treats or like other ways of caring for yourself that you are doing right now. Helping each other. Like what is getting you through? Is it a bowl of ice cream? I don't know.

[Sam Hunio]

Balloon?

[Dory Shafrier]

Is it a balloon? Is it a wireless bra? Just let us know what is like bringing you like even the tiniest bit of joy right now. Is it a long walk through the woods? I don't know. I wish I had woods that I could take a long walk through. And then before we get to Rachel, just a reminder, everything we mention is always on our website. Forever35podcast.com. We are on Instagram @forever35podcast. We have our [e-mail] Forever35. Our latest pop culture episode is going up this week so you can check that out. Shop our favorite products@shopmy us forever35. We have our newsletter at forever35podcast.com newsletter and please call or text us 781-591-0390. Email us at forever35podcastmail.com and thank you.

[Sam Hunio]

All so much for your questions for Rachel which really make up the bulk of this show. Rachel Goodwin is a leading fashion and celebrity makeup artist whose unique perspective on beauty has made her one of the most well known artists of her time. She trained early on at the San Francisco Opera House. She also worked with the Runway backstages of New York City and Paris. Now she lives in Los Angeles and she's been a decades long artist ambassador for Chanel, director of pro artistry at nars, content creator for lots of brands and she has a hugely impressive roster of clients of names. You know, Emma Stone, Priyanka Chopra, Awkwafina, Julia Roberts, Brie Larson, Michelle Dockery, and on and on. And she is also, perhaps most importantly, a quarterly guest on Forever 35 because she answers your questions at a regular clip.

[Dory Shafrier]

All right, we're going to take a little break and we'll be right back with Rachel.

[Sam Hunio]

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[Rachel Goodwin]

Sauce.

[Dory Shafrier]

Oh yeah, I see what you did there.

[Sam Hunio]

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[Elise Hu]

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[Dory Shafrier]

Conditions appreciate Rachel welcome back to Forever35. We are so excited to have you back on the show.

[Rachel Goodwin]

I'm thrilled to be back.

[Sam Hunio]

Hi ladies and congratulations. You just. I guess the deal just closed on a memoir that is going to be forthcoming by Rachel Goodwin.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yes. It's so exciting. Oh my gosh. I've been really like just for years working on this, this project and kind of quietly just working away and it finally found the Right home. And it feels amazing to be like, actually have that support from a publishing house that's. And that are so excited about it. So. Yeah, it took a long time, but, like, it was worth waiting for. Yeah.

[Sam Hunio]

Yeah.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Thank you.

[Dory Shafrier]

So cool. Hurry up and write it so we can better deliver. Yeah.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Better deliver. Yeah.

[Dory Shafrier]

Well, Rachel, we got a ton of questions for you, so. So we're gonna just kind of get right into it because. Yeah, we wanna get to as many of these as we can.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Let's do it.

[Dory Shafrier]

All right, well, first of all, you know, you have done Emma Stone's makeup for a while, and we actually got a bunch of questions about specifically her Golden Globes look. We got a couple specific questions about her lip combo and then also just about her, like, overall makeup. So we'd love to hear just, like, what the kind of vision for that look was. And then if you could talk some specifics, that would also be great.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yeah. So her makeup look for the Golden Globes, you know, that was the first big pixie reveal. She. Right.

[Sam Hunio]

Yes.

[Rachel Goodwin]

So it was really exciting. And, you know, I have been doing her. Her makeup since she was, you know, 17, so I feel like I have a really good grasp of her face at this point in her life. But this was interesting because, you know, we've done a lot of things that her very. Like, when she first told me that her hair was going to be shaved, I was like, wow, that's brave. Because that, you know, most women are like, ah, this is a big deal, you know, to have no hair whatsoever and. But she looked amazing. She looked like Sinead O'Connor. I was like, get out of here with this. So. But, you know, it was a different approach to her makeup, I think, you know, from other. Other periods of time that when it came to the short hair, my approach was definitely slightly more defined, but it wasn't about really kind of, you know, it was like, keeping everything sort of, like, as naturalistic as possible and also amplify her beauty. And it's a tricky. It's a tricky tall order. I know it sounds. It's like natural makeup always gets this. This, like, people think it's nothing. They're like, oh, you. You know, it's like. But natural makeup is actually the hardest thing to do because it's like your instinct is to go to. To. To do things that are going to sort of give a trick of the eye or you're not. You're just like. But you have to pull back. You have to use. Rest can be really hard. I really focused on the skin. The skin was, like, paramount. The. It was all about getting the skin right. And that usually takes up a lot of my time because I like for her to have this, like, really effortless looking skin. And so I actually deepened it, like more like two or three shades. She's incredibly fair, like, translucent fair. And she was like. I didn't want her to be that thin. That contrast between the red and her skin, it could be really jarring if it was, you know, because she's. It's. She still looks pale, but she's actually. Her entire body. I've covered in body makeup and a color that was about two and a half shades deeper than her regular skin.

[Sam Hunio]

Okay. Okay.

[Rachel Goodwin]

So I warmed her. I gave her a glowing sort of look that give her, you know, her version of a vacation tan for someone of that. That shade or non shade, whatever she is. And so we warmed everything up, and then I really focused on, you know, giving her sort of a. I painted freckles. I wanted to look like she was just like. That was just how she, you know, woke up. And then with the lip, it's actually interesting because I've been working really hard on a product that. Because I. I again, I've been working with her for so many years, and she. She eats her lipstick. And so I have been working on creating something that looks completely transparent and is like a stain, but also stays. And so that's actually, you know, my product, which I don't have ready for, you know, to launch or anything yet, but it's in process. So it's something that I've been testing out and working out.

[Sam Hunio]

That lip product is most akin to a stain rather than a lipstick.

[Rachel Goodwin]

It's a stain balm that stays. This is in my life's work right now. This is my.

[Sam Hunio]

You're inventing a new category.

[Rachel Goodwin]

I am trying, okay. Because it's what I like to wear and what I like to use, but it's. So far I haven't had any. Found anything that I, like, can really count on to stay on and also be sheer. So this is what I'm working on. Okay. So that. And then as far as cheeks and eyes, I really actually kind of pulled back a little bit on the eyelash thing. I was. I normally, on big days like this, will use even a subtle false eyelash. And this one, I actually stayed very. I was kind of like, really inspired kind of by like this, like a mean idea, you know, Like, I didn't want. I wanted her to seem like a French girl. Like, effortless feeling with this gown that, you know. So I pulled back on some of the tropes, red carpet tropes on that look. I kind of stuck to more of a fashion approach to her makeup, like a Runway approach where it was just soft lines, little bit of definition, but nothing that was really going to grab away or take from the rest of her look. And I wanted it to almost seem like she just like, was like, oh, I'm just going to pop on this dress, you know. And then cheeks and, and eyes, I used, I used a lot of sheer kind of formulas. I used. I used addiction. There's a very warm sort of soft eyeshadow palette that I used for her eyes. And on her cheeks. I used a The. It was like a the. It's a product by 1999. It's a stick. It's a tanning stick, like a contour stick that I love their Canadian brand that I'm obsessed with. And then for the cheek, I used another addiction Blush which is a Japanese company that I'm obsessed with. I love their textures because they're like watercolor. They're. They're very. Again, it's like the see through way of, of getting that soft watercolor look on the skin without like, but it lasts. It actually has staying power. And these are, these are tricky things to do because it's like when you usually do sheer natural makeup, it's like it like wipes off and then you look like you don't have makeup on. Right. So getting that performance with the really supernatural look is, you know, the kinds of products that I like, I layer a lot, you know.

[Sam Hunio]

Fantastic. Thank you for that breakdown. It's really fascinating to learn. All right, the next question from our listener is on eczema. I had eczema as a child, but it disappeared for decades. And now as I near 40, it seems to be coming back. I'd love any and all recs for creams daytime or overnight. My skin is itchy, very sensitive to the sun and wind.

[Rachel Goodwin]

I would just say you stay away from fragrance. Products with fragrance I really love. And again, I don't know, I would imagine it's safe for eczema. But is it is clinical or is clinical has a recovery balm cream that is just to me like when my sons have any kind of like rashy, burny anything, I use that. And on myself I tend to get quite red. I have rosacea type skin. I use that anytime I need to calm my skin down. I love that.

[Sam Hunio]

Got it, Got it. Okay.

[Dory Shafrier]

One of our listeners wants to know, Rachel, is contouring really necessary for us regular beings?

[Rachel Goodwin]

You know, I kind of go back and forth on it, to be honest. I think in our daily life in daylight can be quite jarring if it's not done with a little bit of care. So I think that it can be wonderful. I mean, I think most women have gotten very comfortable kind of using a layer of contour almost as like, for dimensionality of their skin. And I think that it can be beautiful in a. In a regular. On a. On a, you know, regular day at the office. But I also think that, you know, if not kind of, if you're not careful, it can do the opposite. So I think it's about more finding that sweet spot for yourself. Like, you know, I like to use, you know, the. There's. Now I actually will use sometimes, like, a foundation that's a little bit deeper than my skin just to give myself a little bit of, like, dimension. And it's still wearable. When I go outside, people aren't like, whoa, that would happen to her. You know what I mean? So I think there's this, like, really nice sweet spot that we found. And I think that we all just watch a lot of YouTube and we watch a lot of TikToks where we see these crazy transformations, but those are controlled lighting. Controlled lighting gives you a lot more freedom when it comes to contour, because it's only from here what happens when you turn to the side, what happens when you are in, you know, raw daylight and everyone can see everything? It's great to know the fundamentals of. Of contour, because, yeah, every now and then you can use those tricks and pull them out of your bag. But I think for a daily basis, a gentler approach is. Is just to use, like, bit of two. You know, if you have a lighter foundation, maybe your winter foundation, your summer foundation, and sort of like, you can use that for that same kind of feeling, but you're not going to look like you've gone mad.

[Sam Hunio]

I've never tried to contour myself, and with good reason. So, Rachel, on the topic of daily makeup, one question from a listener is, what are your recommendations for makeup? You can apply with fingers, so no brush, no sponge required.

[Rachel Goodwin]

I'm a finger paint girl, so, I mean, I will just tell you that right. Right now, I do love a beautiful brush, and brushes have their place for precision, and they. Obviously, I use them as well. But inherently, my training as a makeup artist, which was. I have a fashion background, and most fashion makeup artists That I know use their fingers. And the reason why that is the case is because they move makeup into your skin in a very different way than say, a brush. A brush is beautiful for like getting those precision moments to happen. And fingers are used to like, give that integrated look to your makeup. Like, it looks like you, it part of you versus sitting on top of your skin. We're after the result. We're not really, we don't really care about the pretense. You know, we're like, we're not showing you how to use product. We have to get this done and we have to get it done in a particular manner and it has to look a particular way. And so hands, I think as far as like using your, your fingers, don't be afraid to do that. I've heard it from a lot of people. They're afraid to do that because they feel like it's, you know, it's, it's unsanitary. It's like, wash your hands first. Like, that's the simple solution to that. I put my blush on with my fingers. I have a little, you know, cream blush and I use it on my lips, my fingers. I love balms that I can use with my fingers. And I also love when you kind of take like a cream and you press it onto your eyelid and you kind of just. Because it also removes any excess as you're doing it almost in the same way as a sponge. A sponge kind of is applying and removing at the same time. So as far as products that I think are great for that, I would say this blush I'm loving right now by Lys L Y s. It's a cream blush in a little triangular palette. I love that. And I've been using that a lot. I've been obsessed with these kindred black balms. They're kind of expensive, but they're made with all natural products. And they're in this little glass blown beautiful containers. And they're so gorgeous. And they're like, I, they're definitely. You could use a brush, but I often use my finger. And then as far as, you know, you can literally take a lipstick or any kind of contour stick. Even like if you have a say, you have a burnished, bronzy, contoury stick. You could use it on your cheek. You dab it in, you kind of like press it. It's more of a pressing. It's less of a swipe and more of a press. So just kind of reorient yourself to like the way you use Your fingers, because most people think they should be like, swiping. It's. It's pressing. It's just a friendlier look. It's a less obvious makeup kind of approach. And I think it's always like, what. I think all women should be using their fingers more and, and being a little bit less stressed about which brush to use. Although brushes have their place.

[Dory Shafrier]

Okay, so along those lines, we have. We have a couple. We have a brush question. Yeah, that might be. This might be a little too detailed, but. But let me know what you think. Okay, so here's our. Here's our question about brushes. Please do a rundown of which brushes to use for blush, skin tint, bronzer, etc. Thank you.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Blush, skin tint, bronzer, etc. So I'm a little bit weird with that. So I have. My technique is sort of multi. It's like fingers. And then I have what I call my, like my magic brush. My magic brush is almost like it doesn't really have much on it. It's like a. It's a synthetic brush, and I wish I could remember the number, but I'll get it to you afterwards. But it's like, it looks like a. It's a tapered brush, what we call a tapered brush. It's synthetic, so it's not a natural fiber. And again, what it does is, it's like, if I was Bob Ross, I'd be probably putting like, remover on it or something. And like, like, kind of like, you know what I mean? Like, if I'm removing, it's like writing. It's like you blah. And then you edit. Right. So it's like, you know, you're thinking about it as like, you know, you're putting everything out there and then you're sort of taking away. And so what this brush does is it's sort of like if I put it on there, it allows me to sort of dilute it and haze it out. And I just sort of go over everything. So it creates more of a halo effect on the skin. And that's. That's sort of my approach to the way I do, whether skin tint or blush or. Or possibly even bronzer, depending.

[Sam Hunio]

So this is your, like, eraser brush.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yeah, it's like an eraser brush. Yeah.

[Sam Hunio]

And with everything else that she mentioned, like blush or skin tints or bronzer, you're down with just applying with fingers or specific brushes.

[Rachel Goodwin]

And then you can go over with the. With that brush and sort of. So if it's. If you feel like, oh, it's Too much. I'm seeing my eyes being drawn here. Too much or this line looks, you know, too heavy. This brush sort of allows you to give. You go over it without disturbing it. It's still there, but you kind of soften the whole thing. So there's just no harshness. There's no lines. If it's too bright, it kind of takes it down slightly, and you have a bit more control over it. So it's like. It gives you. It's less stressful. If you have a brush like that, what it allows you to do is just be like, if I put too much, it's okay, because I can kind of.

[Sam Hunio]

I can smooth it out.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrier]

So we're just going to take a short break, and we will be right back.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Okay.

[Sam Hunio]

Speaking of blush, the next question is, where should we be placing our blush? Because it seems like there's a generational divide on this. When you watch Get Ready With Me by tweens and teens, they seem to be putting blush in a place that's different than their mom. So talk us through.

[Rachel Goodwin]

I find it so fascinating, blush placement, because, like, everything, like eyebrows and lip shapes and I mean, your book is so fascinating about that, Elise. Like, these are, you know, how do you make a trend from a. From a. You know what I mean? Like a. You're born, however you're born. Like, you know, if you want to have something augmented or you want to make it look. But styles of makeup are, like, you know, they used to go. They used to last a decade. I mean, now they last, like a week. A week. Very stressful to me.

[Sam Hunio]

No, but there is. I feel like there are some classic rules, right, about what looks appealing. So when it comes to blush, what do you recommend? And blush placement?

[Rachel Goodwin]

So there's two schools of thought. I mean, there's trend, and then there's your face shape, and then there's personal style and preference. I mean, there's a few. Few ways to approach this. I think blush is. Is historically a way to make a woman look, you know, like a childbearing possibility from an evolutionary standpoint. So if we're talking about a flush, a natural flush, and that's going to be on your apples of your cheeks, and often it can even go down into, like, this ruddy area where, like, if you're running or you're, you know, exerting yourself in any way, you're gonna get sort of in this little area. So it kind of apple ready, down, running down into the cheeks here. Then there's the other, like, High fashion blush. It's kind of a draping effect, which is more up the cheekbone and up into possibly the hairline. And that's a more, you know, it's a. It's a more feline sort of openly artificial, aggressively, you know what I mean? Like, it's like, yeah, it's a bit more high fashion and like, it has a little bit more of a feeling of sort of sophistication, and it gives you that. So it's like, that's another look. Right. So if you're going out at night, maybe you're wearing. Going to a nightclub or you're going to, like, somewhere where you're kind of leaning into this more high stylistically. You know, you're like, maybe you're going out to a party and you want to be really chic and like high fashion. I would do that. But then there's the new kind of thing where they're taking it across the nose and they're sort of doing it like that. And I. I almost feel like it's like it, It's. I don't hate it, but I'm like, no one really blushes on their nose. Like, your blood is not rushing there naturally. So I'm not as attracted to it. But I see on TikTok, and I'm like, that's fun.

[Sam Hunio]

There's a lot of, like, tip of the nose stuff.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yeah. I did have Diane Lane teach me something, like, many, many years ago about putting, like, a peachy blush on her. On her decolletage. I have to say, I love that trick. It does. It's lively, it's fun, but I don't know that it's necessary. I think it's like embellishment for the sake of embellishment and personalization, and that's about it. I don't get behind it totally. Okay.

[Dory Shafrier]

Okay. This is sort of related to brushes. I am curious to hear what you think about this, your take on beauty blenders. Recently, some makeup artists have argued they break down base.

[Rachel Goodwin]

That's what I love about them. That's exactly right. Okay. That's exactly what they're supposed to do.

[Dory Shafrier]

You sort of elaborate on that. Like, what does that mean? Mean? And why do you love it? And why do some people not love it?

[Rachel Goodwin]

I. I don't know why you wouldn't love it. That's the intention of it. So base is not meant to erase you. It's meant to sort of hopefully reveal like, a. A new version of skin that's like. It's like, better than the one you have, but like, still looks like yours. I mean, in my opinion, that's what an artist is there to do, is make you look like you don't have makeup on your skin. And so Rayanne was a makeup artist or is a makeup artist. And so she created that. That sponge from that place as an artist, you know, because she was always after that approach to the skin. And so when I use that, what it does is it's putting in this. The product. It's putting this product on and removing it at the same time. Kind of like what I was just telling you about with the fingers. Fingers can do the same thing as well, but that's the hope. You don't want to keep layering product on the skin and create, you know, a full barrier. And unless you're doing opera makeup or unless you're doing a very theatrical makeup and then maybe you would. I might not use it. If I was working with Chapel Rowan or if I was working on a person who wanted to almost create a complete mask, then I would probably use, you know, maybe a brush and then another of sponge or, you know, a powder on top to create, like this dense application of product that I didn't want to budge or move. But I don't do makeup that would ever require me to create a mask. And I normally on. On the women I work with, I'm trying to basically look. Create a look that allows them to shine through and not look like they actually have makeup on. And so the beauty blender to me is like, I think it's a masterpiece of. Of beauty ephemera. Okay.

[Sam Hunio]

Okay, great.

[Dory Shafrier]

I love my beauty blender. So I was sort of like, I wonder what her take on this is going to be.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Big fan, like, from the guest. I was a big fan. So.

[Sam Hunio]

Okay, next question. Do I really need lip liner?

[Rachel Goodwin]

I do. I mean, need. Okay, let's be. Let's be real. None of us need any of this stuff. But what we. But I think there's a. I love lip liner. I'm such a. I'm like, I frickin love it. I've always loved it. And people. And it went out for a while and then it came back thankfully. But I think lip liner can be useful for a few things. I think first of all, you can use it as lipstick. People totally don't give it enough credit. I get a lot of questions over the. I mean, over my whole career, I've gotten so many people, women have asked me, how do I keep my lipstick on? How can I keep My lipstick on. It's a big, big point of contention, I think. You know, lip liner is one of the ways that you can keep your lipstick on, because if you use it underneath your lipstick, it creates another barrier and it creates a longer, you know, now there's a lot of incredible formulas that won't budge. But I used it in the early days as a way to sort of create another barrier that kept the lipstick from fading. For it would add hours to lipsticks. Especially back when we didn't have, you know, those long wear formulas and things like that. Or those long wear formulas felt like you're literally your lips were in prison. This is horrible, Horrible, like plastic feeling on your lips. So I would do an entire. So if I say, for instance, I was doing a. A red lip on someone for a red carpet where I knew I wasn't going to see them for hours, and then I would do the red lip pencil underneath, blot it, or use a little Q tip, sort of almost like take off any excess, blot it with powder, and then apply lipstick. And that stuff wasn't going anywhere. So that's one. The second thing I would say is, like, I personally love a little bit of sort of a refining of my lip shape. And I tend to use lip liner and lip balm on top of it, almost like a lipstick. And I think, like, I find certain colors really are great for that natural, like, especially when it comes to, like, your natural colors. Like, if you want to do. I love Morocco by Nars. You know, certain nudes that the. The Sicily lip pencils are like, one of my favorite things in the world. They just have a little brush on the end and you can kind of fuzz them out. And I mean, you don't even. I don't even need lipstick if I have a lip pencil. Sometimes I'll send a client with those to the red carpet because they're so tiny versus a whole lipstick and they can keep their lips fresh all night versus having to constantly replay reapply lipstick. I put, like, if it comes off in the middle, you can just kind of just color in the center.

[Sam Hunio]

Color it in.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yeah, you're fine. So lip. Lip pencils are. I think they're fabulous, and I think they've come a long way. They used to be really waxy, really heavy. They're so beautifully done. Now, the formulas that we have available, I think lip pencils are having their heyday right now, honestly. Okay.

[Sam Hunio]

And Dora, we have a voicemail, right?

[Rachel Goodwin]

Ooh, yeah.

[Sam Hunio]

You can speak to the listener directly.

[Dory Shafrier]

Wow.

[Sam Hunio]

I did some trial and error with eyelash glue, but I really struggled to.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Find one that, that makes it from morning to night. And maybe that's application error.

[Sam Hunio]

Maybe there's something to do with like the oils on your eyes or something. But it feels like there has to be a good eyelash glue out there that is like long lasting and strongholding and would not require me reapplying before the evening. So that's my question for Rachel.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Wow. I'm like, I'm kind of, I'm amazed actually by this question because I've never had an eyelash glue. Beautiful. Sort of. I mean, I've always kind of. I've used a bunch of different glues over the years. I've tried a bunch of different things. They often work too well, I was.

[Sam Hunio]

Going to say, and then rip out my actual eyelashes.

[Rachel Goodwin]

This is, I'm kind of like, wow, what's going on here? Because that's like I duo to me is like it doesn't budge. I mean, I've used it for adhesives and other, for other things as well. I mean, it's a, it's actually surgical. It's actually meant for. It's like, I feel like it's actually like a medical product. Oh.

[Sam Hunio]

Like when you get, when you, when they glue you together instead of stitches.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yeah. It's like it's meant to come off and not be harmful, but it's. I think it's actually surgical glue. So it's like, I hope it doesn't go anywhere. It should be waterproof. It, you know, it shouldn't budge. So maybe it is about the products she's using alongside them. Or maybe it's when she applies it. If you are putting it on after a product possibly and it's repelling. Those are the only things I could think of. Or if you're, if you, if you have a lot of oils, like she said, maybe oils do break down. Some people do produce more oil than others in their eyelashes. If that's the case, or she's using an oil to condition her eyelashes or something, it might be less adhesive. But I would say there's no budging duo. If you use it correctly on, on lashes that are not already, don't already have a product on them or any oil based product on them, it should work.

[Sam Hunio]

Okay. So make sure you're applying them to your natural lash without anything on it yet. No mascara or any other products. Okay, great.

[Dory Shafrier]

Okay, Rachel, just a couple more questions. We did get a few versions of this question, which is about how to make concealer slash foundation, not crease under your eyes and on eyelids.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Again, this is like the age old question, and I, I don't want to be like the, the, you know, the bearer of bad news. But like any emollient product you put on top of your skin is eventually going to gather somewhere. It has to, it heats up and it moves and it has to find somewhere to go. There's no way around it. My approach to makeup in general is always use the least amount of product possible in the most potent form. So when I use a beauty blender and I'm using it, I'm using it with a high coverage foundation because I'm leaving literally a trace behind. That trace, though, is quite effective and gives you the illusion that you're not wearing anything that faint. Trace. But what it also does is it allows me to not leave a lot of makeup on top of the skin to do that. So, so I'm using a highly, highly pigmented performance product in a minimal way. And that's what I would suggest doing if you're trying to keep, if you know, things out of creases. Because the more product on the skin, that's where you get into trouble. It has to go somewhere. It's not just gonna sit there perfectly. You know, we're moving. We're humans, we're, we're, we're in the heat, we're in the, you know, or, you know, even, you know, you smile. And if it's like it's gonna go in there because you're, it's like it's looking for someplace to go. You know, if you have creases around the lips, I, I tend to use waterproof pencils, lip pencils instead, because what that does is it keeps the, any kind of emollient product from moving into the creases. And you can create another barrier with like, say, a silicone based product that sort of, kind of creates more smoothness. But often, eventually the dam is going to break. It's just, it's just how it works. So just the, you know, the least amount you can use.

[Dory Shafrier]

Okay.

[Sam Hunio]

This is sort of along the lines, which is how do I prevent my foundation from clumping and flaking when applying after sunscreen? So sunscreen and then foundation, but then there are some consequences.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yeah, that's the thing. It's like, because we pile a lot of things on now, we have our skincare routine, we have our sun care routine, and then we have our makeup. So.

[Sam Hunio]

Right.

[Rachel Goodwin]

You know, it feels like a tall order. To say, how do you keep that all from going? You know what I mean? Like, mostly you got to remember all this stuff's kind of being going into your bloodstream too because it's going into your skin. Eventually if it's not gathering, it's going in. So I often am just sort of like I try to use the least amount because it is, it is. You know, first of all, I don't like seeing that barrier too heavy. But I think that yeah, eventually it just on everyone. We either have, you know, if you have a very, very dry skin, you can do more. But most people don't have extremely dry skin. They have more oily to, you know, combination, you know, skin like where that's kind of like a little oily here. Like. But I think that ultimately I would also say if you are covering, what I do is I'll use like, if I'm, if I'm someone to say, for instance, has a lot, you know, things to cover, I'll do like a very sheer application of a tinted moisturizer or something that just kind of gives a little bit of an evenness. And then I'll just go in and cover specific things with a more, more like say a concealer type thing where I can go, okay, and, and do it spot by spot.

[Sam Hunio]

Yeah.

[Rachel Goodwin]

That way the rest of the skin is totally as bare as possible. And only we're only kind of focusing on the things we need to cover. And that way you kind of avoid having to use a lot of product as well. If that's, that works as especially well in the hot months, I find.

[Sam Hunio]

Yeah. Okay, Dory, I'll give the last one to you. We have such a grab bag. We're going to save more for next time your quarterly visits, but we've got to choose one. Okay.

[Dory Shafrier]

Okay. So someone asked what is the secret behind glowing skin? And I feel like instead of answering this from like a skin care product perspective, if you could answer it from like a makeup perspective, like how, how do you use makeup to create the look of glowing skin?

[Sam Hunio]

That would be great.

[Rachel Goodwin]

It's a lay. I think it's a layering effect. It's like you create, you want to create dimensionality but without being, without being too heavy, heavy handed. So I think what I like to do is I usually like I said I'll do like my, my first sort of round where I'll do like kind of covering anything. I don't, you know, want to see whether it's a, you know, a patch of darker skin or if it's a little blemish or something. Get all that covered. And then I look at the face, and I'm sort of like, well, where does the light. Where do I want the light to hit the face? And that's usually on the cheekbones, the brow bone. I like to usually get the bridge of the nose, and, like, I often will do, like, you know, right above the cupid's bow. I like to kind of see the light kind of hit there as well. I don't normally go for the chin just because usually that doesn't. I'm like. I really want. It's like this kind of almost like, alien ish vortex in the triangular upper two thirds. Yeah, yeah. Forehead I avoid, you know, because that typically is a place where most people can get shiny. So it's not necessarily as. As beautiful, I guess, and if, you know, traditionally beautiful. But I often don't use powder, so I like skin to glow. If I do use powder, it's incredibly minimal, and it's only really ever around the nose, under the eyes, possibly, and the forehead and the chin. Those are like. And I use a very sheer, almost imperceptible amount of powder, but it's like a mattifying quality that I'll do just on those areas, and I leave the rest of the skin completely unpowdered. Never use powder on those places. And I think that that creates this. Again, it's an easy glow. It's not of, like, a really artificial looking glow or, like an alien glow. It's more, like, natural. And you can always take, like, a beautiful balm. I'll often, once the makeup is completely finished, I'll go in and I'll take, like, a balm. I love monasteries Attar, which is, like. It's a little pricey, you know, but you can use anything. You could use eight hour cream. You could even use Vaseline for this. It's not, you know, prohibitive based on price. I think it's like whatever you like. Any kind of, like, balmy. Like, even a face oil can do this. And just put it in the palm of your hand and just sort of press it over the makeup and it does this beautiful thing. It again, it's breaking it down in a way that makes it look integral to the skin, and it's giving you that, like, dewy glow versus a shimmer glow, which shimmer can be beautiful, and I use it a lot in my work, but it's also not as natural looking as far as, like, glowing. You can kind of. Or you can combine the two you can even put that balm on top of a slight shimmer and it's gorgeous. It's like. So I think, I think it's about finding that little, that little, like, it's a. But it definitely. There's a breaking down of the, of the, of the product again, that I think is inherently my style of makeup and that is something I do a lot. And that's what I think. All my clients, I like giving them that, like, natural looking, glowy skin.

[Sam Hunio]

Love it. And we can tell too, the, the work really shines.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Thanks, ladies.

[Sam Hunio]

Well, Rachel Goodwin, thank you so much for coming back and joining us again and being so game to answer so many of our listener questions. They are piling up, so we will have more in about three months.

[Dory Shafrier]

Great.

[Sam Hunio]

And congratulations on all your successes and your travels as great to check in.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Thank you, Elise. Thank you, Doris.

[Dory Shafrier]

Thanks, Rachel.

[Rachel Goodwin]

I know. So much fun. Thank you, ladies.

[Dory Shafrier]

Rachel always has such good advice.

[Sam Hunio]

Also, I'm always taking notes. I'm like, oh, that I know. And that thing. Oh, oh. And I can't wait to. I can't wait for her to release this lip stain that she has invented.

[Dory Shafrier]

Totally, Totally. Oh, my gosh. Well, let's talk about the intention zone. Elise, have you been doing any longer jogs?

[Sam Hunio]

I have done jogs, but they're not longer. I. I have gone jogging way more often than I was previously. I have extended my walks, but I think I'm gonna re up this intention for next week.

[Dory Shafrier]

Oh, nice.

[Sam Hunio]

Because. Yeah, because I'm feeling good about it. It's spring, it's not as cold in the mornings, and I really want to make this more of a habit and get back into the running habit. So I'm going to just write this down as. As a re. Upped intention for running and running longer distances. What about you? How was your in law visit?

[Dory Shafrier]

You know, it was good. We all survived. I think it ended on a high note. Henry was like, I think really happy to have his grandparents here. We played a lot of Uno with them.

[Sam Hunio]

Oh, nice.

[Dory Shafrier]

Henry, like, killed us all last night. He won like four games in a row. Like, all right. There was one night where someone, I think it was Matt said, okay, whoever wins has to go to bed. Like, gets to go to bed first or something. Something like that. And like, I really tried to let Henry win that game, but I ended up winning. And then I was like, okay, I guess I'm going to bed.

[Sam Hunio]

I'm going to bed.

[Dory Shafrier]

And then Henry was like, yeah, mama, you have to stay in your Bedroom. And I was like, okay.

[Sam Hunio]

Twist my arm.

[Dory Shafrier]

Yeah, exactly. So this week I cannot repeat my intention because my in laws are not staying, but we are going to. We're going up to. A friend of Henry's has a cabin in Big Bear, and we're going up there for a night. And. And it's kind of Henry's first time, like, doing anything like this, so I'm hoping all will be well.

[Sam Hunio]

Yeah. Okay. Is the intention sort of like. Yeah, all right. New intent. New adventures for Henry.

[Dory Shafrier]

New adventures for Henry. And, like, just. Yeah. I just hope he is able to kind of, like, enjoy himself and not get, like, freaked out by being in a different house. And, like, I think he's excited to travel, but. But I, you know, I don't know, maybe I'm making a problem where there isn't a problem. All right. And this is also the episode where we thank our Patreon supporters at these sweet and spa levels. That is an old Dory's hotel inside joke. I can't remember who read the names last time. I think it was me.

[Sam Hunio]

I think you did, though. You are smoother at it. Because I feel like I'm butchering people's names as I'm going along. So you can.

[Dory Shafrier]

Is that take out the old? Is that the old? Oh, you're so good at this. You should do it. You know what?

[Sam Hunio]

No good deed goes unpunished.

[Dory Shafrier]

All right, thank you to the following Patreon supporters. We truly are so grateful for your support and you keep this podcast going. So thank you. Thank you to Caitlin H, Katie, Ashley Taylor, Teresa Anderson, Michelle Maya, Barbara Chiakalos, Amy Sarah Fitz, Amy Schnitzer, Heather Hale, Megan Donald Brew Jr, Helen De Moy, Shelly Lee, Kim Begler, Sarah Sarah Boozy, Allison Cohen, Susan Burseth, Melissa McLean, Fran Kelsey Wolf, Donnay Laura Eddy Jettle, Apti, Valerie Bruno, Julie Daniel E. Jackson, Alicia, Amy Maseko, Liz Rain, JDK, Jennifer Smith, Hannah M, Julia Putt, Maddie O'Day, Marissa, Lauren Gitlin, Sarah Bell, Maria Diana, Cocoa Bean, Laura Hadden, Josie H, Nikki Bossert, Juliana Duff, Chelsea Torres, Tiffany G, Emily McIntyre, Stephanie Germana, Elizabeth A, Kelly Dearborn, Christine Bassis, Allison Marklaine, Jessica Gale, Zulima Lundy, Carolyn Rodriguez, Carrie Golds, A and T, Nikki, Katherine Ellingson, Kara Brugman, Sarah H, Sarah Egan, Jess Combin, Jennifer Olson, Jennifer hs, Eliza Gibson, Jillian Bowman, Brianne Macy, Karen Perelman, Katie Jordan, Sarah M, Lisa Travis, Kate M, Emily Bruyer, Josie Alquist, Tara Todd, Elizabeth Cleary, and Monica. Thank you so much. And just a reminder that Forever 35 is hosted and produced by me, Dori Shafrier and Elise Hugh and produced and edited by Sam Hunio. Sammy Reed is our Project Manager and our network partners, acast. Thanks everyone.

[Sam Hunio]

Talk to you next time.

[Dory Shafrier]

Bye.

[Rachel Goodwin]

This tax season at Boost Mobile when you buy six months on our Best.

[Sam Hunio]

Unlimited plans, we will give you the.

[Elise Hu]

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[Sam Hunio]

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[Elise Hu]

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