Episode 361: Bestie At First Sight with Lindy West & Meagan Hatcher-Mays

Summary

Podcast Summary: Forever35 – Episode 361: Bestie At First Sight with Lindy West & Meagan Hatcher-Mays

Release Date: July 21, 2025

In this engaging episode of Forever35, co-hosts Doree Shafrir and Elise Hu welcome best friends and fellow podcasters Lindy West and Meagan Hatcher-Mays. Titled "Bestie At First Sight", the episode delves into personal anecdotes, discussions on self-care, insights into content creation, and contemporary societal issues, all infused with humor and authenticity.

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1. Personal Updates and Dog Chronicles

The episode kicks off with Doree and Elise sharing amusing and harrowing stories about their dogs, particularly focusing on Oscar the Golden Retriever.

Elise recounts Oscar's mischievous antics:

"[Elise Hu, 03:22] Oscar has already undergone major abdominal surgery to remove swallowed objects like a squishmallow and a rubber bouncy ball, illustrating his playful yet problematic behavior."

Doree adds her own tales about her dog, Beau, emphasizing the contrasting personalities and challenges of pet ownership:

"[Dory Shafrir, 10:12] Beau is in a relaxed phase, enjoying his retirement with simple pleasures like sunbathing and watching TV, highlighting the different stages of a pet's life."

These stories set a relatable and light-hearted tone for the episode, showcasing the hosts' ability to blend humor with real-life experiences.

2. Introducing the Guests: Lindy West & Meagan Hatcher-Mays

Doree warmly introduces Lindy West and Meagan Hatcher-Mays, highlighting their collaborative work and individual accomplishments.

"[Elise Hu, 11:45] Lindy West is a renowned author and co-host of the comedic podcast Text Me Back alongside lawyer and democracy expert Meagan Hatcher-Mays. Lindy has penned works like Shrill: Notes from a Loud Woman and co-founded the reproductive rights campaign #ShoutYourAbortion."

Meagan brings her expertise in law and political analysis to the table, complementing Lindy's creative flair. Their partnership exemplifies a blend of humor, intellect, and activism.

3. Self-Care Conversations

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to discussing self-care, with each host sharing their personal practices and philosophies.

Lindy describes her approach as compensating for traditionally poor self-care habits with extravagant gestures:

"[Lindy West, 19:08] I've been buying nostalgic items like new sheets and comforters, regressing into childhood pleasures as a form of self-care."

Meagan emphasizes passive self-care, finding comfort in relaxation and simple pleasures:

"[Megan Hatcher Mays, 17:38] I've been allowing myself to be a 'lazy girl,' enjoying TV shows to escape reality and find mental coziness."

Doree and Elise also share their self-care routines, such as skincare routines and taking breaks from daily responsibilities, underscoring the diverse ways individuals nurture themselves.

4. Mutual Hype: Celebrating Friendship

The hosts facilitate a heartwarming segment where Lindy and Meagan hype each other up, showcasing the strength and admiration within their friendship.

Lindy praises Meagan:

"[Lindy West, 21:36] Megan is the funniest person I've ever met, combining humor with genius-level understanding of government and democracy."

Meagan reciprocates the praise:

"[Megan Hatcher Mays, 25:29] Lindy is an incredible role model with impeccable boundaries and the ability to extend grace to others, traits I deeply admire and strive to emulate."

This exchange highlights the importance of supportive friendships and the positive impact they have on personal and professional lives.

5. Spotlight on "Text Me Back" Podcast

Lindy and Meagan provide an overview of their podcast Text Me Back, explaining its unique format and appeal.

"[Megan Hatcher Mays, 27:00] Our show is like a two-hour conversation between best friends, filled with humor and niche interests, offering listeners a cozy and relatable listening experience."

They emphasize the blend of casual banter with political insights, making their podcast both entertaining and informative. The hosts appreciate how their authentic conversations resonate with a community seeking both laughter and thoughtful discourse.

6. Discussing Contemporary Issues: Youth Sexual Behavior

A pivotal discussion in the episode revolves around a New Yorker article addressing the decline in sexual activity among younger generations. The hosts and guests share their perspectives on the topic, touching upon societal pressures, media influence, and generational differences.

Megan critiques the narrative as a right-wing talking point concerned with birth rates:

"[Megan Hatcher Mays, 35:17] It feels like fear-mongering about birth rates, reminiscent of past admonitions against youth sexuality, which paradoxically suppressed healthy exploration."

Lindy echoes the sentiment, expressing indifference towards the panic over declining birth rates:

"[Lindy West, 35:07] When people worry about dropping birth rates, I don't care. It's rooted in problematic concerns about societal foundations."

Elise and Doree further explore how media portrayal and internet influences, such as pornography, might affect youths' perceptions and behaviors regarding sex.

7. Managing Content Creation and Exhaustion

Addressing an advice question, Lindy and Meagan delve into the challenges of managing content creation while avoiding burnout. They share strategies employed in their own podcasting journey.

Meagan discusses the balance between passion and exhaustion:

"[Meagan Hatcher Mays, 36:04] We love making our podcast, which helps us endure the exhaustion. The supportive community keeps us motivated despite the constant demand."

Lindy emphasizes the importance of maintaining creative integrity over chasing trends or algorithms:

"[Lindy West, 43:06] Staying true to ourselves and making content that brings us joy is more fulfilling than pandering to algorithms, even if it means slower growth."

They advocate for outsourcing tasks like marketing and production to sustain creativity without personal burnout, highlighting the importance of a supportive team and community.

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Notable Quotes

• Elise Hu [03:22]: "Oscar has already undergone major abdominal surgery to remove swallowed objects like a squishmallow and a rubber bouncy ball, illustrating his playful yet problematic behavior."

• Lindy West [19:08]: "I've been buying nostalgic items like new sheets and comforters, regressing into childhood pleasures as a form of self-care."

• Lindy West [21:36]: "Megan is the funniest person I've ever met, combining humor with genius-level understanding of government and democracy."

• Megan Hatcher Mays [35:17]: "It feels like fear-mongering about birth rates, reminiscent of past admonitions against youth sexuality, which paradoxically suppressed healthy exploration."

• Lindy West [43:06]: "Staying true to ourselves and making content that brings us joy is more fulfilling than pandering to algorithms, even if it means slower growth."

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Conclusion

Episode 361 of Forever35 offers a blend of personal stories, insightful discussions, and genuine camaraderie between the hosts and their guests. By intertwining humor with meaningful conversations on self-care, creative challenges, and societal issues, Doree Shafrir and Elise Hu deliver a relatable and enriching experience for their listeners. Lindy West and Meagan Hatcher-Mays add depth with their own experiences and perspectives, making this episode a testament to the power of friendship and authentic dialogue.

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For more episodes and information, visit forever35podcast.com.

Transcript

[Elise Hu]

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[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah, every working, every like waking minute is spent on a screen.

[Elise Hu]

I. Yeah, it seems like it's a full time job. Just scrolling. There's no right answer for managing screens and your kids, but the numbers don't lie. 45% of girls and 32% of boys say they feel overwhelming stress from being on social media. And together, a quarter of them both feel worse about their own lives. I think it's a real attention stealer. It's a thief of attention. And so I'm often, I'm often like with my screen teen, I'm like, hello, Ava, you still there? You still there?

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

So we definitely have to be very thoughtful about the way that she engages with screens because it does require so much of her attention. But so here's the good news. Gab has solved some of the screen teen problem by doing something no one else is doing. Their approach is tech in steps. Tech in steps works by providing kids safe phones and watches tailored to every age, offering the right device at the right time. From GPS tracking enabled watches for younger kids to increased features in parent enabled apps on the phones for tweens and teens, each device grows with your child. Bottom line, you don't have to give your kid a device that was made for an adult. Get them Gab, which keeps them socially connected safely. I can't recommend Gab enough. Use our code to get the best deal on something that will make parenting easier and give you peace of mind. Visit gab.com forever35 and use code forever35 for a special offer.

[Dory Shafrir]

This episode is brought to you by Earth Animal. Have you ever been overwhelmed at the pet store looking at dog treats and you're faced with a wall of ears, hooves, mystery meat, and then rawhide. It looks har, but if you know people with dogs, then you probably know someone whose dog had a bad experience with rawhide. But now there's earth animals. No hide chews, no rawhide, no nasties. Just simple sustainable ingredients and an extra plus no awful smell. Plus no hide chews actually last get 25% off no hide with code [e-mail] give them a try. But remember to always supervise chewing. So subject to availability terms and conditions apply. See earthanimal.com for details. Hello and welcome to Forever35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Dory Shafrier.

[Elise Hu]

And I'm Elise Hu, and we're two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.

[Dory Shafrir]

Indeed we are. How's it going, Elise?

[Elise Hu]

It's going well. This is a Monday episode where we're going to have a very cool conversation coming up with some guests, but I feel like we haven't caught up that much over the course of the last weeks or last week or so because I'm coming back from some time away. So I need to update you and update the listeners on the latest misadventures of Oscar the Golden Retriever.

[Dory Shafrir]

My God, Elise, I'm not laughing at you. I'm more laughing, like, ruefully. Yes, it's a rueful laugh.

[Elise Hu]

For any listeners who are new to the show and have missed the various chapters in Oscars. He's not even a year old yet. He'll be a year in about three weeks from now. And he has already had open abdominal surgery, like a major abdominal surgery to remove a squishmallow that he swallowed on New Year's Eve, 2024, and then had to had a subsequent hospitalization in April after swallowing some other, like, bouncy ball, some rubber thing that his intestines couldn't pass. Surprise, surprise. His intestines couldn't pass. A giant rubber bouncy ball. And that had to be, like, they had to give him lots of fluids so that it eventually passed. We think, like, don't know. And then this week, after he jumped up on the table while we were eating dinner and stole a corn cob off of Ava's plate. What?

[Dory Shafrir]

The corn cob.

[Elise Hu]

He has not learned. Yes, he has not learned place. So we are. We have a trainer who comes over and has us work on things. And, like, one of the key things for puppies to learn is place. So he has a place to go to, and we can tell him to go there. Just say he left his said place and stole a corn cob off the table, blatantly, like, he was out in the yard not a second later, just chomping down on this corn cob and, like, getting it into his belly as fast as possible. So that had already happened. But as we were, like, cleaning up the table from dinner, he breaks into the younger. Two girls, Luna and Issa, share a bedroom that's, like, right off the kitchen. And so that's the bedroom that he can, like, get access to because he's sort of, like, gated off from the other part of the house. And so he promptly, like, takes the opportunity while we're all busy, like, Clearing the table to ram his full body into the girl's room because the door wasn't shut completely and he could just like Kool Aid man his way in. Because he's 80 pounds, he Kool Aid mans his way into the girls room and takes the first thing that he sees into his mouth. And it's of course some like golf ball sized squishmallow object which I knew was going to take us down a bad road, a road in which I couldn't stomach again, if you will. And so I, I once we saw it, like the girls freaked out and we sat him down, they held him by his collar and I like reach my hand in there and I can feel the object.

[Dory Shafrir]

No.

[Elise Hu]

And I'm trying to grab it and we're in this like tug of war while this object is in the back of his mouth, like in his back teeth.

[Dory Shafrir]

Oh my God.

[Elise Hu]

And then I'm like, this isn't working. He's holding on so tight. So then I remember that like he sometimes drops it and learns how to drop, or has learned how to drop it, like with the specter of a treat. So I turn around to go to the fridge to grab like some chicken to lure him to drop it. And in that second he's like, bye. And he swallows the object down.

[Dory Shafrir]

Oh my God.

[Elise Hu]

I waited 30 minutes and watched half of an episode of the Emmy award nominated series Dying for Sex starring Michelle Williams with Rob before telling him of this episode because he didn't know. He was like in a different part of the house when this all went down. And then I was like, I just want to watch this show. It's really funny. Jenny Slate is in it. It's awesome. We're. I just didn't say anything for half of the episode. And then like halfway into the episode I'm like, oscar swallowed a squishmallow and he promptly like jumps out of bed. He's like, no, not again. Very emotional reaction. And he's like, we're gonna have to go to the emergency room because if we get it early enough then it won't like get stuck lower down. And he was right. The vet said, good thing you got here within the hour of it happening because we can make him vomit.

[Dory Shafrir]

Oh, okay.

[Elise Hu]

And so they give him some drug that makes him like empty all the contents of his stomach before it makes it down to an intestine. And you will not believe how much came out. So first there was the organic material, which was parts of a corn cob which I have thrown away. So I cannot show you that.

[Dory Shafrir]

Okay.

[Elise Hu]

Okay. Then there are pieces of, like the slow feeding bowl. You know how you can get those slow feeders.

[Dory Shafrir]

Oh, my God. He. So there were pieces of the bowl.

[Elise Hu]

Okay, so that's. All right. And then here is the object in question. I think it's like my melody from hello Kitty.

[Dory Shafrir]

Oh, my God.

[Elise Hu]

Okay, so that's like bigger than a golf ball. Actually.

[Dory Shafrir]

It is quite. It's quite large.

[Elise Hu]

So we were like, great. All right. He got that out. He vomited that out.

[Dory Shafrir]

Great.

[Elise Hu]

We got it. But then there was more. Then we found. This is going to be shocking. And we don't know how long this was in his stomach. This is an emotional support french fry. It is larger than a banana.

[Dory Shafrir]

It is huge. It looks like a worm.

[Elise Hu]

And. And who knows how long this was in his stomach because they were like.

[Dory Shafrir]

Well, so the doctor said it was good that you got here within the hour so we can make him throw up. But then you're saying that you don't know how long the french fryer was in there.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, because that could have been just stuck in there for a week or more. And it couldn't go because of the shape of it, because it's shaped like a stuffed tube sock.

[Dory Shafrir]

Oh, my God.

[Elise Hu]

It couldn't make it down the intestine or.

[Dory Shafrir]

Right. And you had no idea that it was.

[Elise Hu]

Oh, I'm just. God for listeners out there. I'm just shaking my head very slowly. I just. Wow. Anyway, so that's the latest in the Oscar chronicles.

[Dory Shafrir]

I mean, this dog is.

[Elise Hu]

I texted Dory last night when all of this was going down, and she was like, do you think he's just dumb?

[Lindy West]

And I do.

[Elise Hu]

I did say that.

[Dory Shafrir]

I was like, is he maybe not that bright?

[Elise Hu]

He's such a himbo. Like, he's so handsome. Walking around with Oscar is like, how I know pretty privilege exists. Like, people are all trying to pet him. Like, he brings a smile to everyone's face. But then, like, he gets compliments non stop. Like, people from across the street will be like, that is a good looking dog. But then he has some real deficits. Yeah, Otherwise. So anyway, what's going on with you?

[Dory Shafrir]

Nothing that dramatic.

[Elise Hu]

Boy, oh, boy.

[Dory Shafrir]

It's just funny because Beau is in a very different phase of life right now. Beau was, like, enjoying his retirement. His dog walker came today to take him out. And when they got back, I was just like, ah. And like, trotted back to my office so he could get on the couch. And then I said to her, I Was like in about 10 minutes he's going to ask me to go outside so he can like sunbathe and. And indeed, 10 minutes later he was like, okay, I'm ready to go. And he just like went outside, laid down. He was out there for a little while, then he came back in. He was. Then he was in the exact same pose inside.

[Elise Hu]

Just watching Wheel of Fortune.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah, exactly. He's like in his recliner.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, I'm just kidding.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah, he, I mean, you know, he still has energy and he still loves going on walks and very sniffy and. But he is definitely like, I like my creature comforts.

[Elise Hu]

So good. That's my dream situation. I mean, retirement for me is a dream, but like retirement age for my dog is also a dream. I, I hope he can live. May he live that long. May Oscar even make it that long. You know what I'm saying?

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

I do, I do.

[Elise Hu]

He's already used up like three of his lives.

[Dory Shafrir]

I know. I was gonna say he doesn't seem to have like great survival instincts.

[Lindy West]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

Oh, Oscar. Well, should we introduce our guests?

[Elise Hu]

I am delighted to. And you all will like them so much. They are best friends who podcast together. They are Lindy west and Megan Hatcher Mays. Lindy west is the co host with Megan of a comedy podcast called Text Me Back and Lindy is the author of the email newsletter, but News widely agreed to be the best and most important email newsletter of all time. This is according to her. It's a really good bio.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

She has published three books. Shit. Actually the definitive 100% objective guide to Modern Cinema as well as the New York Times best selling memoir Shrill Notes from a Loud Woman and the essay collection the Witches Are Coming. Her next book, Adult Braces will be available for pre order soon. Lindy is a former contributing opinion writer for the New York Times Times and her work has appeared in this American Life, the Guardian, Tons of other Places and she's the co founder of the reproductive rights destigmatization campaign. Hashtag shout your abortion. Megan Hatcher Maze is a lawyer and expert on the courts and democracy. Somebody who we really need right now who has appeared on MSNBC and Peacock. Her work has appeared in the New York Times, Washington Post, tons of other places. She lives in Washington D.C. mainly they're like best friends and this show is called Text Me Back and it's like they're text to each other out loud in a podcast and we kind of got to experience this ourselves when we sat down with them.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yes, they're very fun. And before we get to them, just a reminder that you can Visit our website forever35podcast.com for links to everything we mention on the show. We are on Instagram at 2-32-35 podcast. Our Patreon is at patreon.com forever35. Our favorite products are at Shopmy US Forever35. You can sign up for our newsletter at forever35podcast.com newsletter and you can call or text us at 781-591-0390 and email us at forever35podcastmail.com and we will take a short break and we will be right back with Lindy and Megan. With summer now in full swing, I feel that familiar urge to refresh my closet. But I'm trying not to waste money on pieces I'll only wear once or just for one season. Thanks to Quint, that's not really an issue anymore. Their clothes are timeless, feel luxurious, look elevated, and the quality is way beyond what you'd expect for the price. It's the kind of wardrobe upgrade that just clicks. I recently got their 100% organic cotton poplin pintuck maxi skirt in navy blue and when I tell you it felt a lot like a skirt I had tried on that cost about five times the price. I'm not joking. I am really pleased with this purchase. I've already worn it a couple times and I plan on wearing it all summer. But everything with Quints is at least half the cost of similar brands. Think 100% European linen tops starting at $30, washable silk dresses and skirts and soft cotton sweaters. These are versatile warm weather pieces you'll reach for again and again by working directly with top artisans and cutting up the middlemen. Quints give you luxury without the markup and Quints only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices. Premium fabrics and finishes give your summer closet an upgrade with quince. Go to quince.com forever35 for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com forever35 to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com forever35 just because you own a small business does not mean it's a small undertaking for us here at Forever 35, everything felt big, monumental, even down to the branding, the website, and especially when we decided to sell merch. The thing that helped me the most when all of these decisions began to feel daunting was knowing I had the right platform with all the Tools I would need to be successful. Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started. Tackle all the important tasks in one place. From inventory to payments to analytics and more. Shopify makes the marketing minefield easy with built in tools for running social media and email campaigns so you can find new customers and keep them. And if you're looking to grow your business internationally, Shopify has global selling tools to help you in over 150 countries. If in person is more your thing, Shopify's award winning point of sale connects your online and offline sales all in one place. With 99.99% uptime and the best converting checkout on the planet, you'll never miss a sale again. Only with Shopify. Get all the big stuff for your small business right with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com forever35 Go to shopify.com forever35 shopify.com forever35 welcome to Forever35. Lindy and Megan, we are so excited to have you on the show.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Thanks for having us.

[Lindy West]

So excited.

[Dory Shafrir]

We don't do like a stereo. Yeah, we don't do a lot of two guest episodes. So this is, this is exciting for us.

[Lindy West]

Unfortunately, even on our own two person podcast, we are not good.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

No.

[Lindy West]

At very not talking over each other. That's okay. Today we're gonna figure it out.

[Dory Shafrir]

Today's the day.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Today's the day.

[Dory Shafrir]

Well, we start all of our conversations with our guests by asking them if they are doing anything right now that they would consider self care. And that is a very broad definition of self care.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Gosh, I feel very cared for when I just don't have to do anything, you know, like that's caring for myself. It's just like I'm not doing the dishes.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

I'm not responsible for the dogs today or whatever. So I've been just doing a lot of. I've just been allowing myself to be a little bit of a lazy girl and just like watch a lot of TV because it's just a little bit easier to exit reality when you're like, oh, what are these British detectives getting up to? Let's find out. And it's very cozy for the mind.

[Elise Hu]

You know, Dory loves a cozy mystery. But Lindy will let you go. What are you doing to take care of yourself these days?

[Lindy West]

I feel like I have Been. I'm traditionally so terrible at taking care of myself that I also am always compensating by doing extravagant gestures of self care. So lately I've been doing all kinds of things. Mainly I've been buying things, which I love, but I got a new bed and then I was like, well, I gotta get new bedding, even though it's the same size as my old bed. So I did buy like a full set of like, new sheets. I bought a new comforter thing, new pillows. I bought a kit to make a latch hook throw pillow that would match. And like, and like, I'm not buying like, classy sheets. I'm buying like, things that would have delighted me as a, a child or a teenager.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Important.

[Lindy West]

And. Yeah, and I've been doing that in like, lots of areas of my life, buying things that I, that I wanted when I was younger that I didn't have. I have a star machine. I have this, I, my office is in this weird attic, like, full of stuffed animals. I guess maybe that's regressing, but it feels like self care.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

No, it's caring for your inner child. Child.

[Lindy West]

I think that's, I've like, made my inner child like a little nest. I've been eating otter pops right and left.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Oh, I love that.

[Lindy West]

And I got a haircut and I, and I had the stylist leave. I, I pinned them up right now, but I have two little rat tails, a ridiculous haircut that I never, that I thought for sure I was not cool enough to have. And I look at you correctly, but now look at me. I, I, I can just have it if I want, you know.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Can I say one more that I, I am becoming one of those TikTok water women. This was like a big trend for a while where, like, the TikTok water women were getting big Stanleys and making little tinctures out of electrolyte powder. So unfortunately, I'm doing, I do that now. I was like, God, yeah, they got you. People are cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. And I was like. And I just, I recently went to the doctor and she's like, well, how are you feeling? And I was like, deb, I feel great. I've been drinking water with electrolytes in it. And I was like, you guys weren't joking about the hydration. She's like, we weren't. I was like, the medical profession was right. You should drink more water. She's like, yeah, we're not like, taken in by big Aquafina. And I was like, well, I know that Now, Deb, I just thought of.

[Lindy West]

Something else, which is that I've also been doing the dark side of self care, which is called go for a walk every day and listen to my body. Like, I. Like, I realized, God forbid, I know having cream in my coffee was giving me a tummy ache. So I stopped. I stopped eating dairy, and I feel way better, and I'm so mad, I hate it. But if you're not having ice cream anymore, great excuse to eat more Otter Pop, which is what I've been doing.

[Elise Hu]

So all makes sense. It all makes sense. Well, since the two of you are besties, something that we wanted to give y' all the floor for is to hype each other up. So Lindy, hype up Megan. And Megan hype up Lindy.

[Lindy West]

Oh, my God. That's. I am just.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

I want.

[Lindy West]

I'll go first. I am so in awe of Megan every single day. Because here's the thing about Megan. She's the funniest person I've ever met in my life. So funny. Makes I. I have not stopped screaming since the day we met in senior year of high school. I am amazed every time she opens her mouth. She says the funniest thing I've ever heard. But then also, she's a genius who works in Washington, D.C. and she knows how the. All the parts of the government work, and she, like, does press conferences and writes memos, and she. And I know that if I, like, forget what time the podcast taping is, Megan will text me and be like, don't forget the podcast taping.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

We're not. Not that she's saying that that happen.

[Lindy West]

But it's like. It's like, here's the thing. Here's the thing that. That, like, blows my mind. I feel like Megan has all of the strengths that make me special, like being funny and creative, but then she also has the regular people skills of being. Of being competent and, like, effective.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

So nice.

[Elise Hu]

Such good hype.

[Lindy West]

She puts on makeup. She does her hair curls. She. Her hair's clean, unlike these guys. To top it all off, I don't know. I don't know where. I don't know how many hours she has in her day, but it's like, she does all that. And then she's also, like, seen every season of every television show, and I'm like. When I find Megan, very aspirational. She also has a great. She's very. She has great boundaries. She's not afraid to, like, stand up for herself. Another thing with which I struggle so. Sure, Great role model. For me, that's a mentor, really, but also, like.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

But I was born, like, a fail son. You know what I mean? Like, I was born, like. Like, I. I didn't get diagnosed with ADHD until I was in my 30s. And up to that point, I just. That was a very dark time. I never remembered anything that ever happened. I never remembered where I was supposed to be. Like, I really had to spend 10 years teaching myself how to function, basically. And so it's actually very validating to have someone be like, you're competent. Because I was like, I think from, like. Not that I was incompetent. That's unkind to say about me. I just had this undiagnosed thing that was preventing me from, like, functioning like. Like using my calendar and, like, showing up to things that I promised people I would go to. So it's very nice to be like, oh, yes, I do. That's right. It's true. I did it. Okay, but I'll hype up. Lindy, first of all, you're so unkind to yourself. You're, like, the best person I've ever met. You're like, I. We. We met senior year of high school, and I don't remember a time before that. You know what I mean? You ever just meet somebody and you're just like, oh, yeah, dude, this friendship is gonna rock, or whatever, or this relationship. I think people talk a lot about love at first sight with, like, romantic partners, but I don't think we spend enough time talking about, like, bestie at first sight. When you meet someone and you're like, oh, yeah, we're. We're freaking gelling, dude. Like, this rocks. And I don't remember exactly what she said, but she said something that she just made this joke that I understood completely. And I was like, I've been waiting to find someone to have stupid jokes that I don't have to explain. This is going to be beautiful. And she's just like, she truly is. Not to plagiarize her, but she truly is, like, the funniest person I've ever met. It was so satisfying to just like. And, like, heartwarming to meet someone who shared a lot of my same interests that are very niche, incredibly niche. And I don't have to spend 30 minutes explaining why the joke is funny. I can't tell you how free I felt like the first time we just, like, drove around in her car just screaming for, like, five hours or whatever. So making this. Making this podcast together has been, like, a real treat because it's like, everything I love about our friendship, and now we get to share it with everybody else. And it's so special because Lindy is so special. Like, the reason people listen to our podcast is because Lindy has had this massive effect on how people see themselves, how people see their bodies. And she really does, like, write and joke in a way that I actually cannot do. Like, she's very. She always calls herself very soft, but I say soft parenthesis, complimentary, because you are very sensitive in a good way to like other people's feelings and in a way that I'm not. I just really don't have a lot of patience for people who are being annoying. And so I really look up to Lindy in that regard because she is able to be like, well, maybe we could extend some grace to this person. And I'll be like, well, why would we do that? So it's like she has everything that I like about myself except the stuff that I don't have, which is like, being patient and kind of. I don't have any of that. So I'm like, jealous, I guess, in a sense, of. Of those. That skill set.

[Lindy West]

That's why we're a perfect team.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

That's right. Up top.

[Dory Shafrir]

You guys just talked about how you met senior year, and the premise of your podcast is kind of what you guys text each other about every week. So can you tell our listeners about the show, about what you text each other every week?

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

God. Well, the show's so hard to explain because it really is just everything you've heard over the last five minutes is our show.

[Elise Hu]

It's really just like you're getting a sample right here, folks.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah, it really is just the coziness of. Of talking to your best friend. I think that people like our show because I think that we are a particular type of 40 something year old woman who have inner child issues. Their inner children need fancy sheets, you know? Yeah, yeah, Star machines, stuffed animals, things of this nature. And every week is just stuff that we think is funny. And it turns out other people think that's really funny too. And that's everything from like a snake that Lindy learned about or like science discovered a new worm or what's my dog doing? Or what's Lindy's dog doing? We do talk about TikTok trends. We just recently were talking about the budget decorating videos that have overtaken my algorithm, and I never want it to end.

[Dory Shafrir]

Are you talking about the ones from, like, from the 80s and 90s or.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah, like 90s with. With Joan Yes.

[Dory Shafrir]

I just reposted one of those. The. The children's overalls above the bed. Did you see that one?

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

I have not seen that one yet. Oh, I'm so excited. We just.

[Dory Shafrir]

We just recently lost.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

We just recently lost our mind over the one where they were like, surprise. We have a surprise re remodel that we did in the closet. And they opened the closet, and the lady's kid is in there sitting on a bean bag chair in the dark.

[Lindy West]

And her name's Kelsey, and she's like.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

And Joan's like, kelsey, I love what you've done with this. Was this your idea? And then Kelsey bursts into tears, and she's, like, so overwhelmed with what's going on. And I was like, this show rock.

[Lindy West]

I think a good way to explain our show is that an ideal episode for us would be to track down Kelsey.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yes.

[Lindy West]

And talk to her and find out what the deal was.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

She's okay. Yeah. So I think our show is basically, I guess we. Our elevator pitch is do you ever just call up your best friend, you don't have anything in particular you want to talk to him about, and then you just have a two hour conversation and at the end your stomach hurts from laughing. That's the text me back podcast guarantee. I think what.

[Elise Hu]

I think, what an awesome pitch. That was a great pitch.

[Dory Shafrir]

Love that.

[Elise Hu]

Thank you.

[Lindy West]

And I think they're also just by necessity in these times, there is this kind of political angle to it, which is that we talk about politics that much, except Megan works in politics, and we're very sort of politically passionate.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

And yes, we're all bravely affected by politics, whether you're talking about it or not. Yeah.

[Lindy West]

So. So part of the show is finding a balance where, you know, sometimes we address things, especially with Megan's professional expertise, which we call Day Job LLC on the show. You know, sometimes we'll do a whole segment for that that is very grounding and, you know, helps people feel a little bit less terrified or more or more terrified. But, you know, sometimes it'll just be an explainer of, like, why is. Why is this happening? What does this mean? How is the media getting this wrong? So sometimes every once in a while, we'll do something like that, but we actually try more because you can get news and analysis lots of places. We try more to be kind of a place where people can go to have a moment of escape and lightness and joy in their regular life without being one of those people who keeps their head in the sand and pretends like politics. Isn't happening.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah, I think our show's very influenced by politics, whether or not we're providing analysis. So I used to. My background's in, you know, democracy work, and I used to work for Indivisible. So there's obviously a lot of, like, people organizing involved in that job. So I never want to say something about politics and not give people something to do. I don't want to. But sometimes it's really important, really, to just vent. There might not be a call to action. There might not be anything we can do in that moment, but it's like, do you guys want to talk about how Elon Musk and Donald Trump got into a fight over the big, beautiful bill, and then Elon Musk dropped a bomb that he's in the Epstein files, because I'm all over the place. And then our listeners kind of get to go on that journey with us, even though there's nothing to do about that. There's nothing I or any of us can do about this. But it's important to talk it through.

[Lindy West]

Totally.

[Elise Hu]

I mean, my version of that was the Ted Cruz Tucker Carlson interview. I did that all day long last week just because there were so many clips and memes that came out of it.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah, there's nothing to do about that. But it's. I think it's important to know that you're not alone in seeing how crazy this all is, because I think a lot of what happens in politics these days is that something very objectively insane happens, and then the. The media reporting of it will be, like, controversial businessman Elon Musk, Donald Trump. And it's like. Well, I don't really think that explains exactly what happened.

[Dory Shafrir]

Oh, my God.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

It sounds like they were trading favors. The world's richest man was, like, leveraging money over the President of the United States for political favors. That's what. Maybe the headline could say that. So I think our show, to the extent that we, like, very explicitly get into news and analysis, it's to just be like, I want you to know this is crazy. You're not wrong. Like, this is whatever the New York Times is maybe saying about it is not. You're right. Not a good headline. Just want you to know that we see it, too, you know?

[Dory Shafrir]

So we're just going to take a short break and we will be right back. This episode is sponsored by EF Ultimate Break. If you love traveling but hate all the planning that goes into it, like juggling hotels, transportation, not to mention the actual fun planning part of your trip, then check out EF Ultimate Break. EF Ultimate Break makes traveling easy for 18 to 35 year olds because everything is handled. Do you hear me, Elise? Everything.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

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[Elise Hu]

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[Dory Shafrir]

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[Elise Hu]

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[Dory Shafrir]

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[Elise Hu]

Okay, so in the spirit of test texting our besties, Dory and I looked at our phones to see what our besties have been texting us lately. Like as of this morning and over the past 24 hours, two separate friends have sent me the article in the New Yorker about how kids aren't having sex anymore. Have you all seen this?

[Lindy West]

I saw that. I saw the headline.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

But I did. I heard that we have a crisis of prudishness among the younger generation, but among the zoomers.

[Elise Hu]

Zoomers in particular. So I wanted to get yalls take. Do we think it's. Do you think? Are you concerned?

[Lindy West]

I know this is a right wing talking point, so maybe it's good that I don't understand or care, but when people get all worried about like, like dropping birth rate, I don't care.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

I was just, I was just gonna say that same thing. It feels like a lot of this is rooted in sort of a right wing concern about birth rates. So it's like people in their 20s, early 20s aren't exploring their bodies and having a good time at college. We'll never have more kids to. To, you know, become this foundation of our capitalist society. So it feels a little bit like that, like fear mongering about whether or not kids want to. Because when we were growing up, they kept being like, don't have sex. It's evil and so bad. It's so bad. And then all the kids were like, okay, we won't. And they're like, well, but what about the birth rate?

[Elise Hu]

It's that because they're so exposed to porn and all these, like, all the variety that is presented, they're like, a little paralyzed when they're actually dealing with carnal relations in real life.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

I see.

[Lindy West]

Interesting.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

No way the real life version is gonna match up with what they saw on pornhub. Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Well, that makes sense. I feel like older people. I mean, by older people, I mean people our age, people in their 40s, like elder millennials to millennials, are really preoccupied with what zoomers and Gen Z kids are getting up to in a way that I never gave a singular about when I was and like, kind of vice versa. Where Gen Z is like, oh, millennials are cringe. And millennials are like, I took that personally, you know, And I think there's. It's just because we co. We coexist on social media platforms in a way that are like, you know, the town square, I guess, in a way that I never. I never saw someone 10 years older than me in my life when I was in middle school. Whatever it is that kids are or not doing for some reason, like, that's our business now. Like, I don't care. Go play soccer.

[Lindy West]

I don't care.

[Elise Hu]

Megan Hatcher Maze, everybody. I don't care.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Do whatever.

[Dory Shafrir]

Go play soccer.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

That's a euphemism for birth rates.

[Lindy West]

Look, abolish the Internet. Yes. Get rid of it. Yes. Good. If I. I'm not surprised that the Internet is messing up young people's libidos and. And relationships. The Internet is bad, and I don't have anything more nuanced to say it's bad. If we're talking about, like, Internet pornography having a warping effect on the minds of its consumers. And look, I understand that women have robust libidos and horniness levels as well, but are we mainly talking about boys becoming crazy from watching too much porn? I don't. I mean, right?

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, probably.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah, probably.

[Lindy West]

In which case, if the girls are like, I can't. If the. If that's not. I don't want the girls to be with the boys with the warped brains.

[Dory Shafrir]

Right?

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

There's this take that men are entitled to relationships. They're entitled to affection, and they're entitled to sex. And all these girls are like, well, could you try being a normal human person to me? And then maybe we could go on a date? But instead they're just like, get into it. And there was this vibe of that kind of permeating this at least this one student's high school after the election, too.

[Lindy West]

Also, with Roe overturned, it's. I'm sorry, it's dangerous to have sex for. For women. I don't know.

[Elise Hu]

That's part of the landscape. That's part of the reality now. Yeah. We have an advice question for y'. All. Your content creating machines now, because there's also a newsletter and the podcast. Instagram and a YouTube because you're putting all your podcasts on video. And then, Lindy, you've always been a big writer, so how do you keep up with all of the content churn and managing exhaustion? Because we're tired. Like, we're constantly doing this too. And like, is there a way to find a certain balance with it?

[Lindy West]

We're tired, too. We're so tired.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

We. We don't do a good job keeping up with the flow, I would say. I guess I think if I was going to be extremely kind to us and to our production schedule, if I may, one thing is we both love doing this. And I think the reason that we're willing to deal with some exhaustion is because I think we both really just want to do this all the time. Like, this is the most fun I've ever had making something. Like, you know, I went to law school, but it's not like I derive joy from being like, hey, guys, the Supreme Court sucks. Just letting you know. Well, sometimes I do. It depends on the day. But. But this is like, really. It's tiring. But it's also like, very life affirming to make this very funny podcast with my best friend that we've. We've actually been. We used to joke about having a radio show when we were in high school, and now we do, even though the radio of doesn't really exist. But I don't know. So it isn't. It is a churn and we're not great at staying on top of it, but we do okay because we really love it and the community around our podcast is so beautiful and lovely that it's very encouraging. You know what I mean, to like have the people who listen to it be like, this was so funny, or I really liked this part of it and just like, have that like, sort of cycle of affirmation, I guess, about the show. It makes it kind of easy to keep doing. And I guess as far as advice is like, so our podcast is not solvent, I would say, but we do make enough money to make the podcast. And I think what Lindy and I have decided is like, could we take a bigger cut of the money that we get if we did everything ourselves? Yes. Would that kill us both also? Yes. So instead we, we take money that we make from like our Patreon or for our ads or whatever and we, we pay other people to help us. We pay a producer to help us make the show. That same producer also makes the YouTube videos for us. She makes the clips for our social media and like, you know, so it's not like we're rolling in cash with the podcast, but we probably take about 50 of what we make on our Patreon and pay someone else to help us continue to make it because, yeah, we could take that money, but we'd be, we'd be dead. Yeah.

[Lindy West]

And I think, I want to say also if you're a person who wants to have a creative career, a thing that we decided pretty early on was that we wanted to make the podcast that we wanted to make. And there were all kinds of, I think, savvier moves we could have made in terms of positioning ourselves in the landscape, and we didn't do that. And we don't spend our time chasing.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah.

[Lindy West]

Sort of avenues that don't come naturally to us or don't bring us joy.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Lindy West]

So we don't, you know, we don't. I, I see what really successful podcasts do and there's a lot of that, A lot of that stuff is obviously not all of it is accessible to us. We can't like, have Obama on or whatever.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

You don't know that. You don't know that.

[Lindy West]

But, you know, I'm happy, I am so much happier with the size of podcast that we have and the creative freedom that we have. And I think that there's no greater asset to any creative project than staying close to yourself and, and working from instinct and from what actually makes you happy and what you enjoy making, because all of this is like fake and, and, and fleeting and you could do all of the, of the social media strategy that you want and burn yourself out doing that and still not have a, a million dollar podcast. You Know what I mean?

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah. And then you're just, like, putting out slop that the algorithm rewards, which is almost never.

[Elise Hu]

Right.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

I mean, it'll. It might go viral, but it's not good.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

You know, sometimes good stuff does go viral, but not always, you know, so we.

[Lindy West]

We don't spend time chasing our audience, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. Like, we. We make the thing that we want to make and trust that that's going to make it something better than, you know, if we were just pandering.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lindy West]

Life isn't livable if you're pandering, is all I'm trying to say, you know?

[Dory Shafrir]

Well, and it's nice to be able to do that, like, without losing money.

[Elise Hu]

Right.

[Dory Shafrir]

Like, maybe you're not, you know, making millions of dollars, but at least you're not, like, losing money, getting to do this.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yes. I think that's been. It's so exciting when we hit, like, a little milestone where it's like, okay, we have enough podcast money to, like, fly to New York to go to this. To, like, be a part of this podcast festival and, like, be on the show or whatever. And just recently, I mean, like, one of the. I don't know if I could just be transparent, but one of the reasons we're on the show with you is because we paid someone to help us with the marketing for the show. It's like. And we can't do that because unless without this, like, kind of really incredible group of people who listen to our show and subscribe to our Patreon, like, literally, the. This community is helping us, like, further this podcast. And I think in a lot of ways that's a lot easier to continue to do than. It's like, oh, I guess we gotta go make our podcast for Podcasts Corp. Like, you know, hope for the best. I don't know. So it's. It's tiring, but in a good way, too. And it's. And also it feels. Feels good to be, like, bring it more people in, like experts and people who really actually know how to make a podcast.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

And have them be a part of this with us, too.

[Dory Shafrir]

Well, if our listeners want to listen to your podcast, follow your podcasts on Instagram, subscribe to your newsletter, or see a live show, how can they do that?

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Okay, we're an independent podcast, as I've just mentioned, so we do it all ourselves. So if you like what you're hearing and you want to support independent art, and that's what our podcast is at the end of the day, it's a beautiful masterpiece, a beautiful piece of artwork. Patreon.com text me back pod and we're on Instagram @textmebackpod. I know people have a lot of fraught feelings about Instagram. We do, too. But, you know, if you want to see, like, what we look like and what we're getting up to, it's a good place to go. By the way, if you like New York Times bestselling author Lindy west, you're going to love the newsletter. She writes it.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

And it's free. It's called Newsletter me back. And you can find it at newslettermeack. Substack. Com and sorry, it's on substack, but we do just. There's only so much two women can do in the system that we exist in. So I'm sorry.

[Elise Hu]

Don't hate the players. Hate the game.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yes, please hate the game. I'm begging you to hate the game.

[Dory Shafrir]

Lindy and Megan, thank you so much for coming on the show. This was truly a delight to get to talk to you both. So thank you.

[Elise Hu]

Thank you both.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Thanks for having us.

[Lindy West]

Having us. Yeah, it was so fun.

[Elise Hu]

Thank you so much to Lindy and Megan. Y' all are a hoot. And remember, their show is text me back. You can find it wherever you listen.

[Dory Shafrir]

Elise, how did skin hydration go?

[Elise Hu]

I went and splurged for, like, the $60 gift set of Sulwhasoo products at Sephora because I had been really into their really popular serum, like, the first care or whatever serum that I had a little tester of from my birthday gift. Like, you know how Sephora you get your birthday pack? And so I started using that on a trip recently. And then because of my skin hydration intention, I was like, I'm gonna, like, just get the bigger bottle. And I got the bigger bottle of that and then their moisturizing lotion. And I've been working that into my skincare routine, and I feel pretty good. I feel pretty good.

[Dory Shafrir]

Love that.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. And then I'm also, like, trying to hydrate just generally just to drink more water because I drink so much tea, like, flavored teas. I'm really into, like, I Dr. Black tea with strawberry acai. You see me drinking my Starbucks all the time on our interviews, but I'm trying to just, like, drink water, so. So I'm doing my best. You know, I probably still don't drink enough water according to whatever the expert advice is, but doing my best. What about you, Dora? You wanted to do another life test. Like tackle something. Yes.

[Dory Shafrir]

So Matt and I went to Costco and got eye exams.

[Elise Hu]

Oh. First the dmv, then eye exams.

[Dory Shafrir]

Eye exams. I know.

[Elise Hu]

What a romantic time.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah, truly. And it turns out, like, my. I, you know, I did think my prescription needed to be tweaked a little bit. Like, not drastically, but I was starting to notice, especially when I was playing tennis at night, I was like, things are looking a little fuzzier. And she confirmed, like, I need, you know, just like a little tweak. So I got two new pairs of glasses. One like, for regular activities and then one for tennis.

[Elise Hu]

Oh, cool.

[Dory Shafrir]

And I will. And I will get some prescription sunglasses probably from, like, I buy direct or something soon. So that was exciting.

[Elise Hu]

Can I ask, are frames at Costco more affordable than, like, Orby Parker?

[Dory Shafrir]

I. I think so. I mean, they. I think it sort of depends on, like, what you get. They were having a, like, they, they seemed a little cheaper than, like, the msrp. And then they also had. They were running a sale where if you bought two pairs of glasses, you got $50 off. So that made it cheaper. I checked the price like that. That definitely made it cheaper than. Than not. And I needed them anyway. So I was like, let me just, Let me just get them.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

And be done with it.

[Elise Hu]

Okay.

[Dory Shafrir]

So. Yes. So that is what we did. And this week I am just focusing on tennis, preparing for sectionals.

[Elise Hu]

Yay.

[Dory Shafrir]

And also just like, trying to remind myself that, yes, it'd be great to win, it'd be great to go to nationals, but, like, I just want to have fun and play some tennis and like, like, have a good time.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. Well, you mentioned at the start of our casual chat that I had actually, like, put on makeup. And so this actually ties to my intention, which is to, like, get ready in the mornings. I feel like I'm getting made fun of by my kids a lot. This shouldn't be the reason why, but my kids, like, make fun of me a lot about, like, how embarrassing I look at drop offs in the morning.

[Dory Shafrir]

Wow.

[Megan Hatcher Mays]

Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

Because they're like, oh, you're wearing the same shorts as yesterday and the day before and the day before change. So I am going to, like, try and, like, get dressed in the morning as if I have a place to go.

[Dory Shafrir]

Okay.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

All right.

[Elise Hu]

So I like this for you. It's kind of an embarrassing intention, but I think that it kind of helps set your day.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

So I'm going to do that this week. It might only last for a week. Ladies and gents.

[Dory Shafrir]

Well, you know what? Please report. Please report back. Let us know how it goes.

[Elise Hu]

Okay?

[Dory Shafrir]

All right. Well, thanks everybody. Forever 35 is hosted and produced by me, Dori Shafriar and Elise Hu and produced and edited by Sam Hunio. Sammy Reed is our Project Manager and our network partners, acast. Thanks everyone.

[Elise Hu]

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[Dory Shafrir]

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[Elise Hu]

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[Dory Shafrir]

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[Dory Shafrir]

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[Elise Hu]

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[Elise Hu]

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