Forever35 Episode 365: “People Like Me Better When I Cry” with Jena Friedman

August 18, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Doree Shafrir and Elise Hu welcome comedian and writer Jena Friedman for a rich conversation weaving together self-care, grief, motherhood, the state of comedy, and the existential climate we find ourselves in. The episode moves from updates on pets and personal health, to Doree's tennis triumphs, and into a deeply candid and often humorous interview with Jena about her career, her latest standup hour, coping with loss, and the role of art and comedy in times of uncertainty.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Hosts’ Check-In: Dogs, Biopsies, and Tennis (03:22–13:00)

• Elise’s Dog Health Scare (03:22)

  • Elise recounts her dog’s dangerous heat stroke during a group hike, emergency vet intervention, and the aftermath.
  • “My dog is alive. I think that's the top line. We are all alive here.” (03:26)
  • Dog’s history of swallowing foreign objects humorously revisited (“They did find the nose of a Care Bear in his poop, but that wasn't the issue.” (04:54))

• Elise’s Biopsy Results (04:58)

  • Elise shares relief over benign results and her unbothered mother’s texts:
    • “My mom was just like. She just sent me a thumbs up, thumbs up emoji because she just. She knew all along.” (05:53)

• Doree’s Dog Health Update (06:00)

  • Doree had her dog, Beau, checked for a lump and weight loss; awaiting biopsy but veterinary staff are unconcerned since it may be a benign lipoma.

• Tennis Triumph & Sectionals (08:38)

  • Doree’s 3.0 tennis team won sectionals, advancing to nationals.
    • “We won. We won the whole freaking thing. And…everyone really, like, rose to the occasion. I think people surprised themselves. I surprised myself.” (08:41)
  • Doree discusses mental strategy:
    • “You just wanted to play loose. You didn’t want to be too anxious about it…Did you feel like you were able to just sort of let things go and play nice and free?” (09:27, Elise)
    • Doree details how a tough early match made later matches easier to play with less pressure.
    • The team is renting a house for nationals: “It’ll be like a giant sorority house.” (12:00)

2. Main Guest Interview: Jena Friedman on Self-Care, Comedy, and Grief

Introduction & Credentials (16:51)

• Doree introduces Jena Friedman: comedian, writer, director, and producer, with credits on Borat 2, The Daily Show, Letterman, and multiple standup specials.

Self-Care Practice: Tennis Revival (17:06)

• Jena’s Newfound Self-Care:
  • “I just got back into tennis…I’ve gotten really into it and that has been my self care.” (17:06)
  • Playing with senior players in Michigan brought unexpected joy after the L.A. fires.

Edinburgh Fringe, Comedy Goals, and Show Themes (17:45–24:09)

• Jena preps for an 18-day run at Edinburgh Fringe with her new (personal-focused) hour, “Mother Effort.”
• On the different motives for Edinburgh: honing material, gaining reviewers, and (sometimes) selling the hour as a special.
  • “This show’s a lot more personal than my past shows…but I know by the end of the run I'll have a really tight show…” (18:54)
• Discusses the unique, competitive nature of the festival (“There are 3,000 shows in the city over the month…It’s crazy.” (21:48))
• Recalls a crucial, positive review from a student journalist that led to a sold-out run.
  • “She got exactly what I was doing…the rest of the run sold out. And it just was so cool…when someone actually sees what you’re trying to do.” (22:58)

From Political to Personal: New Show Focus (22:59)

• Previous hours were deeply political, aimed at “a plea to not vote for Trump.” This new show is about becoming a mother and dealing with deep loss.
  • “If people can come away feeling better than when they went into a show, that’s really a goal of mine, especially for this project.” (24:09)

Motherhood & Industry Realities: The James Corden Incident (24:19–28:14)

• Discusses a widely-misquoted story about auditioning a new-mom set for James Corden’s show while postpartum.
  • “The note to me was…‘This is going to bum our audience out.’ And I was like, this is funny, fuck off.” (25:40)
  • Offers context—she was navigating postpartum exhaustion, industry pressures, and personal grief.

Grief, Crying Onstage, and Authenticity (28:16–32:23)

• Jena’s mother died when Jena was eight months pregnant; working out material around her grief became part of her healing process.
  • “Has it helped? I don’t know. Maybe it has helped me process it…When I am fully connected, it’s like you tap open a well and you can’t stop crying. And then it becomes like this weird performance art. But then I also feel guilty for crying so much. It makes the show—the audience loves it—but I feel like a hack or something.” (28:37)
  • She discusses the conundrum of “people like you better when you just cry,” versus a career built on writing sharp political comedy.
• Elise draws a parallel to public scrutiny of women showing vulnerability, referencing Hillary Clinton in 2008 (30:26).
  • “Like, you can’t win.” (30:26)
• Jena recalls advice from another comic dealing with loss, to “just lean into” the grief when it surfaces.

Family, Support, and Her Mother’s Humor (32:23–34:34)

• Jena shares touching and funny stories of her late mother’s wit and support—reading her book aloud to her, her mother’s sardonic feedback:
  • “Are you planning to do a book on tape? ...You should hire someone to help you on the performance.” (33:37, Jena quoting her mom)
• Describes her mother’s generosity and biting humor, even in palliative care.

3. State of Comedy and AI: The TED Talk (35:50–40:29)

• On the End of Late Night TV:
  • “I love Colbert… but after having serious loss... it’s not, like, earth shattering. …everything seems like it’s ending.” (36:03)
• AI and Comedy: Jena’s TED Talk
  • She was relocated to a “family” panel, ironically opening her edgy set after a pediatrician.
  • Main point: “The more specific and maybe niche, unlikable, not profitable your content is, the less likely a machine will write it.” (37:36)
  • “There’s not going to be like, an A.I. Nathan Fielder.” (39:30)
• Irony of AI Summarizing Her Talk:
  • Doree finds an AI-generated “key takeaways” pop-up after Jena’s own TED Talk—missing the nuances of her message.
  • “I saw that. And also, it wasn’t even…there was an AI synopsis and it wasn't even accurate. I almost posted about it, but then I was like, I can’t.” (39:58)
  • Elise points out this ironically proves Jena’s point.

4. Coping Tools for Hard Times (40:32–44:07)

• Jena on art, activity, and meaning in chaos:
  • “My son has really been an antidote to my grief…I think art helped me get through some of my grief…and then talking—acupuncture helped with my heartbreak. …The books make you feel less alone. They help you process your grief. They help you just cry when you need to cry.” (41:30)
  • Recommends reading, talking to those who’ve experienced loss, and engaging in physical activities—tennis brings memories and presence of her mother.
  • On perspective:
    • “I used to be way more doom and gloom…now I’m just like, okay, we could be entering into fascism. Who do I need to take care of?...taking care of people that are more vulnerable than you at the time. At times like this, I think that’s…tangible.” (43:24)

5. Where to Find Jena (44:07)

• “I’m online. If you just type in AI. Type in a chatgpt. No, I mean, I post shows on Instagram, and I have a website..” (44:10)

Notable Quotes

• Jena on artistic risk and grief:
  • “If I could cry on command, I’d have a lot more work in the acting phase. But it is weird. Like, it does feel weird having done this for 15 years and having worked so hard to write these political jokes…No one likes how much people like you when you just cry.” (30:06)
• On making real connections through art:
  • “When someone actually sees what you’re trying to do, so clearly, it’s like, that’s, like, why. That's why I do it. It's so cool.” (22:58)
• On AI-generated content:
  • “There was an AI synopsis [of my TED Talk] and it wasn’t even accurate. …It kind of inadvertently bolsters the point that you're making in the talk though, that AI can't capture what you're doing.” (39:58-40:22, Doree & Elise)
• On contemporary anxiety:
  • “I was a little worried about Late Night, but having been to TED, I’m like, late night is the least of our problems. We’re all going to die thanks to Palmer Lucky’s autonomous nukes.” (36:03)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:22–13:00 – Hosts’ personal updates on dogs, health, and tennis
• 16:51 – Jena Friedman introduction
• 17:06 – Jena’s self-care: rediscovering tennis
• 17:45–21:04 – Prepping for Edinburgh Fringe
• 22:59–24:09 – Transition from political to personal material
• 24:19–28:14 – On motherhood, postpartum comedy, and industry bias (James Corden story)
• 28:16–34:34 – Processing grief, performing vulnerability, and family stories
• 35:50–40:29 – Late night TV’s future, Jena’s TED Talk, AI vs. comedy
• 40:32–44:07 – Coping with chaos; art, books, and human connection in grief
• 44:07 – Where to find Jena online

Tone & Style

Throughout, hosts Doree and Elise maintain their trademark blend of humor, warmth, and candor. Jena’s delivery is dry and witty, punctuating heavy topics with self-awareness and deadpan punchlines. There is an atmosphere of supportive honesty and a genuine curiosity about how we live, make art, and hold ourselves (and each other) together, especially in turbulent times.

For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

This episode blends laughs and real talk, sharing practical and emotional lessons—particularly on resilience, the healing power of art, and why specificity (in comedy, grief, and living) is more vital than ever in a world that increasingly feels both fragile and surreal.