Forever35 Podcast Episode 366: "Have No Shame with E. Jean Carroll"

Hosts: Doree Shafrir & Elise Hu
Guest: E. Jean Carroll
Release Date: August 25, 2025

Episode Overview

In this engaging and candid episode, Doree Shafrir and Elise Hu welcome the legendary journalist and advice columnist E. Jean Carroll. The conversation effortlessly weaves together the practicalities of self-care, the absurdity and gravity of Carroll’s high-profile legal battles against Donald Trump, and what it means—especially for women and as we age—to live without shame.

The episode is as much about resilience and humor as it is about politics and personal care. Carroll shares stories from her recent legal fights, her self-care routines, insights on aging and beauty, and her approach to giving advice. The hosts and guest discuss the current state of American political life, the power of refusing shame, and the joys and realities of getting older.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. E. Jean Carroll's Self-Care Rituals & Aging Joyfully

• Bouncing Through Life (09:48 – 11:19)
  • Carroll demonstrates her favorite daily self-care practice: sitting and moving on a giant exercise ball all day. She credits constant movement and her dogs’ love for keeping her energized.
  • Posture & Core Strength: Carroll has worn a makeshift weighted strap pack for 20+ years (“Get that thing on now!” – 11:57) to support posture and prevent slouching as she ages. Her advice: don’t wait—start now!
  • Memorable Quote:
    “Do it now, girl. Yeah, get that thing on now… I’ve been talking about this thing for 25 years.” — E. Jean Carroll (11:57)

2. Behind the Scenes of Holding Trump Accountable

• Surprise Book Launch & High Absurdity (14:19 – 16:49)

  • Carroll explains the secrecy behind her book, Not My Type, written after her court victories against Trump. The book balances the tragic with comedic relief. She describes sitting in court as “high comedy” amidst the seriousness.
  • Memorable Quote:
    “I keep saying the word funny and I keep saying comedy and it sounds weird, but that’s what it was.” – E. Jean Carroll (16:02)

• The Importance of Appearance in Court (17:49 – 20:59)

  • Carroll recounts how a “mock jury” taught her that appearance shapes perception—even of her sexual assault testimony. She underwent a dramatic makeover to look more like her 1996 self, wearing a wig and vintage clothes to bridge the jury’s imagination gap.
  • Wig Names: Trixie, Trudy, Tallulah, Thomasita. (“This is $8.88!” – 20:52)

• Psychiatric Evaluations & Legal Drama (21:21 – 23:46)

  • Trump’s legal team struggled to find an expert to counter Carroll’s; ended up hiring a psychiatrist specializing in alcoholism, who gave questionable conclusions.
  • Memorable Quote:
    “His conclusion was that he didn’t know what happened…but if it did happen, I was lying. That was his conclusion.” — E. Jean Carroll (23:38)

• Trump’s Courtroom Behavior & Jury’s Verdict (24:08 – 27:19)

  • Carroll describes Trump’s disruptive, childish courtroom behavior, climaxing with him storming out during closing arguments.
  • Jury awarded Carroll $83 million in damages. She intends to donate it “to everything he hates”—women’s rights causes, if and when it arrives.
  • Memorable Moment:
    “He lost the case right there by walking out. Didn’t have enough control to even sit…And that’s the man who’s running our lives right now. No control whatsoever.” — E. Jean Carroll (26:27)

3. The Transformation from Advice Columnist to Symbol of Resistance

• Shifting Identities (30:57 – 31:40)

  • Carroll reflects on moving from her longstanding role as Elle columnist to her current identity as a public figure fighting Trump in court.
  • She highlights the need for everyone to “get off our lazy asses…instead of talk about changing the world, we should change ourselves first.” (31:40)

• The Nature of Trump’s Power (32:23 – 36:25)

  • Carroll and the hosts discuss the alarming speed of Trump’s political resurgence, his mastery of branding, and his ability to tap into American victimhood and grievance.
  • No Sense of Shame: Carroll observes that Trump’s utter lack of shame has been central to his success, inspiring the episode’s title.
  • Memorable Quote:
    “If I can do it, anybody can do it. Just think, there’s nobody lower or weaker than an old lady. And this old lady took him on and beat the shit out of him.” – E. Jean Carroll (33:22)
  • On Shame:
    "When you have no sense of shame, it turns out it can take you really far.” – Elise Hu (37:15)

4. On Writing the Book

• The Urge to Capture Absurdity (38:41 – 39:43)
  • Carroll knew immediately upon entering the courtroom that she wanted to write a book. She obsessively documented every detail, including nightly video diaries.
  • Memorable Quote:
    “I was overloaded with every small detail every day…I had characters that nobody in the world could have dreamed of…” – E. Jean Carroll (39:17)

5. On Giving Advice

• How to Be a Great Advice-Giver (40:22 – 41:09)
  • Carroll’s secret: the real answer is usually found within the question; people mostly need encouragement to act on what they already know they want.
  • Memorable Quote:
    "No matter what you tell them, they're going to do it anyway. So at least give them a shove in the proper way…” – E. Jean Carroll (41:09)

6. Closing Wisdom and Joy

• Grabbing Joy Above All (41:23 – 42:06)
  • Carroll gently discourages self-promotion, instead advising listeners to “grab the joy when it comes along,” reinforcing the show’s ethos of finding delight in the everyday.

Standout Quotes & Timestamps

• “Get that thing on now. I’ve been talking about this thing for 25 years.” — E. Jean Carroll, on wearing posture straps (11:57)
• “The whole thing was tragic, but surrounding it was the high humor.” — E. Jean Carroll, on her Trump trial (16:49)
• “I gotta look fuckable.” — E. Jean Carroll, on preparing for the mock jury and courtroom prejudice (19:39)
• “His conclusion was…if it did happen, I was lying. That was his conclusion.” — E. Jean Carroll, on Trump’s court psychiatrist (23:38)
• “That’s the man who’s running our lives right now. No control whatsoever.” — E. Jean Carroll, on Trump storming out of court (26:27)
• “There’s nobody lower or weaker than an old lady. And this old lady took him on and beat the shit out of him.” — E. Jean Carroll (33:22)
• “We should have no shame and just go out and do what we want to do.” — E. Jean Carroll (37:23)
• “No matter what you tell them, they’re going to do it anyway. So at least give them a shove in the proper way…” — E. Jean Carroll (41:09)
• “You don’t need to look for E. Jean Carroll anywhere. I want you to grab the joy.” — E. Jean Carroll (41:23)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 09:32–11:29: E. Jean describes her unique self-care and posture tips
• 14:19–16:49: Writing Not My Type; the absurdity and humor of court
• 17:49–20:59: Court appearance, the bob haircut, and mock juries
• 21:21–23:46: The farcical psychiatric evaluation story
• 24:08–27:19: Trump’s tantrum in court and the impact on the jury
• 32:23–37:23: Analysis of Trump’s success, shame, and political climate
• 38:41–39:43: Writing the book as catharsis and journalism
• 40:22–41:09: E. Jean's approach to giving advice
• 41:23–42:06: Carroll’s closing message on seeking joy

Summary & Tone

The episode balances poignant reflection with irrepressible humor, perfectly capturing E. Jean Carroll’s “tragicomic” experience. The tone is warm, self-deprecating, and empowering. Carroll’s resilience and authenticity shine—not only in her recounting of courtroom absurdities but in her insistence that "anybody can do it" and her steady refusal to be cowed by shame, age, or the powerful.

Whether you came for practical advice, political insight, or simply a dose of encouragement for living fully at any age, this episode delivers.

For more resources and highlights from this episode, visit forever35podcast.com.
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E. Jean Carroll’s Substack: ejeancarroll.substack.com