Episode 368: Fix It and Do Better Next Time with Rachel Goodwin

Summary

FOREVER35 | Episode 368: Fix It and Do Better Next Time with Rachel Goodwin
Release date: September 8, 2025
Guests: Rachel Goodwin
Hosts: Doree Shafrir & Elise Hu

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Episode Overview

This episode of Forever35 welcomes back celebrity makeup artist Rachel Goodwin for an engaging Q&A focused on practical, approachable beauty and self-care for adults juggling work, family, and fun. Across wide-ranging listener questions, Rachel shares makeup tips for minimal routines, product recommendations at every budget, and a peek backstage at major events like Glastonbury. Doree and Elise combine their signature humor and honesty as they discuss friendship rituals, JLo movie rankings, and the realities of regulating nervous systems in the chaos of daily life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Catching Up: Summer Adventures & Friendship Rituals

[00:43–07:52]

• Elise’s Steakhouse Story: Elise shares a serendipitous friend date with Sam Sanders—after plans fall through, the two enjoy spontaneous bar seating, a playful top-4 JLo movie debate, and a reminder of the importance of nourishing close relationships.
  • “Quick, top four JLo movies. Best JLo movies of all time.” — Sam Sanders ([02:47])
  • Made in Manhattan’s surprising accolades, out-of-sight appreciation for Out of Sight, and affectionate JLo shoegazing.
• Philadelphia’s Starstruck Moment: Doree recalls the Ben & JLo “Gigli” filming run as one of Philadelphia’s “most exciting” events—equated in jest with the signing of the Declaration of Independence ([08:36]).
• Theme: Honor the joy found in small, meaningful rituals and connections.

Guest Spotlight: Rachel Goodwin, Celebrity Makeup Artist

[12:35–49:36]

Glamorous European Summer & Self-Care Abroad

[12:38–15:29]

• Rachel describes a “happy accident” European summer: supporting Alanis Morissette at Glastonbury, tacking on personal artist dates in Paris, and how letting go of maternal guilt enabled new forms of self-care.
  • “I decided to just live the artist’s way for a full week, which just hasn’t happened in my life in a very long time. And I took myself on artist dates every single day. And there’s no better place for that, in my opinion, than Paris.” — Rachel ([14:26])

Q&A: Listener Makeup & Beauty Concerns

Rapid-fire, practical tips with Rachel’s expert yet approachable tone.

1. The 1–2 Minute Face ([17:32])

   • Tinted moisturizer or sunscreen/primer (Rachel recommends St. Jane, “[18:24]”)
   • Lip & cheek combo stick (Iris and Romeo, “[19:09]”)
   • Drugstore mascara (L’Oreal Voluminous or Neutrogena: “I’m a drugstore girl … you have to throw it out so often.” — Rachel, [19:31])
   • Optional: Tinted brow gel, clear lip balm on eyelids

2. What to Splurge On? ([20:53])

   • Prioritize high-quality complexion products/foundations (ingredient quality matters for skin health).
   • Splurge-worthy emotional items: “Anything that makes me feel something… like Lisa Eldridge’s gorgeous aluminum lipstick case.” — Rachel ([21:24])
   • Don’t splurge on mascara; drugstore options suffice.

3. Hydrating Under-Eye Concealer ([22:38])

   • Drugstore gem: L’Oreal ‘Skin Ink’ concealer (“I’m obsessed… so sheer, it goes on so sheer, and it covers.” — Rachel, [24:49])
   • High-end hack: Lisa Eldridge’s corrective pencils (minimalist spot coverage).
   • Key: Less product under the eye for a natural result.

4. Eyelash Curlers ([26:06])

   • Japanese-made curlers (Shiseido, Shu Uemura) have “gentleness of the spring and the softness of the cushion.” — Rachel ([27:02])
   • Keep pads clean and replaced. Dirty pads can damage lashes!

5. Concealing Fresh Scabs/Picking ([28:13])

   • Dermablend (professional, waterproof)
   • Violette_FR “liquid bandage” (if available)
   • For body scars/marks: Rachel is “obsessed” with Tinge, a body makeup for evening tone.

6. Overlining Lips ([31:22])

   • Rachel decides “case by case”—depends on lip shape, drama of look, balancing facial features.
   • Lip liner can “ramp up” natural fullness: “Most of the women I work with haven’t been augmented… so I do my little tricks.” — Rachel ([32:09])

7. Lip Stain Recommendations ([34:33])

   • Wonder Skin lip stain: “Fun and novel, but… not my bag for daily use.” Rachel’s not a fan for work where removability is key.
   • There’s still no perfect all-day, non-drying lip stain—but Rachel is literally working on developing one herself.

8. Bridal Lipstick (Not Barbie Pink) ([37:01])

   • Splurge: Chanel’s Rouge 31 (“the perfect rose”)
   • Budget: Sisley Phyto Lip Twist (rosy, emollient chubby pencil—hydrating, easy reapplication)

9. Application Tools—Fingers, Brushes, Blenders ([39:10])

   • Rachel’s order: apply with fingers, then “go over” with a brush to remove excess for a sheer finish.
   • “I like to put on the makeup, and then remove the makeup—any extra… I almost leave behind a faint trace.” ([39:26])
   • Brushes, fingers, and beauty blenders are all valid tools; use what feels right.

10. Combining Oil & Water Makeup Products ([41:25])

    • Think “like vinaigrette”—oil-based products play well with each other, but mixing oil and water can cause separation/pilling.
    • For heavy-duty events (e.g., Alanis Morissette onstage):
      • Use waterproof foundation, primer (Tatcha, Serge Lutens), Nanoblur to absorb moisture, Kryolan setting spray for extremes ([43:19]).
    • Avoid glossy lips for performers; stains + balm better for durability.

Philosophy: The Value of Play & Messing Up

[47:03–49:06]

• Rachel’s big message: Don’t let the overload of beauty information or the “severe” judgment on social media scare you away from experimenting.
  • “What I wish… is to help women remember the good stuff is in the playing and the messing up… Make mistakes, come out wiser—makeup is supposed to be fun.” — Rachel ([47:51])

Hosts' Self-Care Intentions & Closing

[50:00–51:53]

• Doree and Elise candidly update each other on their self-care “intentions” from last week:
  • Elise: Nervous system downregulation is a work in progress amidst after-school chaos and new hermit crabs.
  • Doree: Strength routine and decluttering goals—admitting progress isn’t always linear.
• “Just staying present, keeping it cool, keeping it at a chill two like I wanted to last week.” — Elise ([51:24])
• “I do not like that work. I find it very tedious. But I know that it’s something you really want to get done.” — Elise on decluttering ([51:47])

Where to Find Product Recommendations

[09:58, 49:39]

• All of Rachel Goodwin’s product picks are compiled at ShopMy US, on the Forever35 ‘Rachel Goodwin’ shelf.

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Notable Quotes

• “I decided to just live the artist’s way for a full week… in Paris.” — Rachel Goodwin ([14:26])
• “I like to put on the makeup, and then remove the makeup—any extra. I almost leave behind a faint trace of coverage.” — Rachel Goodwin ([39:26])
• “Supposed to be fun. I mean, God, if it stops being fun, I think we’ve lost it.” — Rachel Goodwin ([49:01])
• “What I wish… is to help women remember that that’s where the good stuff is, is in the playing and the messing up.” — Rachel Goodwin ([47:51])
• “Just staying present, keeping it cool, keeping it at a chill two like I wanted to last week.” — Elise Hu ([51:24])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:43] — Hosts’ opening catch-up; friendship, movies, rituals
• [12:35] — Rachel Goodwin joins; summer, self-care, Glastonbury
• [17:32] — Listener Q&A: “1–2 minute face” makeup
• [20:53] — “What should you splurge on?” and product hierarchies
• [22:38] — Under-eye concealer for dryness/dark circles
• [26:06] — Eyelash curlers: what matters, care & recommendations
• [28:13] — Covering scabs & body marks
• [31:22] — Lip liner and overlining
• [34:33] — Lip stains: Wonder Skin and the ongoing quest
• [37:01] — Bridal lipstick: rosy, not Barbie pink
• [39:10] — Application tools: fingers vs. brushes vs. beauty blender
• [41:25] — Layering oil and water-based products
• [47:03] — Rachel’s philosophy on makeup “play” and learning
• [50:00] — Hosts update on self-care intentions, real-life roadblocks

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Tone & Takeaways

This episode blends Forever35’s signature warmth, authenticity, and lived wisdom with Rachel Goodwin’s expert artistry and openness. The vibe is reassuring: don’t over-complicate beauty, experiment freely, and hold onto the rituals that bring you joy. Whether you’re rebuilding a makeup bag, curious about quick fixes, or simply looking to feel a little better in your skin, this episode is full of smart advice and gentle reminders that taking care of yourself is as much about play as it is about products.

Transcript

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[C]

Hello and welcome to Forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Dory Shafrier.

[D]

And I'm Elise Hu. And we are just two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.

[C]

And today we have Rachel Goodwin back on the show.

[D]

So we'll be talking about makeup and a lot of your makeup questions and a little bit on her summer because she has had the most glamorous summer.

[C]

She did have a very glam summer. And you all sent in a lot of great questions. But before we get to that, Elise, how are you?

[D]

I'm good. I went on a little friend date last night with our friend Sam Sanders because I was supposed to be celebrating my friend Lindsay on a new job that might require that she have to move across the country and return to New York. We hope not. But I had wanted to take her out for like a fancy meal, so I booked her a dinner I reserved. I made a dinner reservation for a steakhouse, which I never do like it. It's very common in Texas to be like, let's go meet up at Bob's Land and Cattle or whatever, Bob's Chop House. But. But in la, I almost never go to a steakhouse I like. Just, it's a big splurge, you know, and as we've talked about in other episodes, it's also awful for the environment. And so I, like, made this special reservation for her. And then yesterday morning she was like, I'm really sorry, but I've been so stressed out by the negotiations and I'm just kind of fried. Can we rain check? And I was like, yes, of course. But I got this great reservation. Who would go and eat steaks with me?

[C]

And so I texted and you knew it.

[B]

Not me.

[D]

No, not you. And also I was like my fellow Texan. My fellow Texan, Sam Sanders. So I texted and. And not my partner. I also was not like, oh, Rob, do you want to do a date night? Because no, he wouldn't appreciate this. He wouldn't appreciate one of those, like, dark wood, exposed brick steakhouses. He doesn't even really like red meat, and so he rarely eats it also, so. So I was like, do you want to go out on a date night? And he was like, what time? And when I get to the place, he was already sidled up to the bar. He had made friends with Sean, the bartender, and instead of getting seated, we decided just to eat at the bar with Shawn because we liked Shawn so much. And they were discussing the top four. Their top four JLO movies. So before I even sat down, he was like, quick, top four JLo movies. Best JLO movies of all time. And I made the mistake of excluding Hustlers, because I haven't seen Hustlers, and she's supposed to be really excellent in that because obviously, I ranked out of Sight and Selena, but in the place of Hustlers, I put. And I got totally razzed for this. The Wedding Planner, starring JLo and Matthew McConaughey. I just had to eat shit on that one.

[C]

Did anyone rank Made in Manhattan?

[D]

No.

[B]

No.

[C]

Elise, when was the last time you watched Made in Manhattan?

[D]

Maybe when it came out. Was it like, 2003?

[C]

Actually, it was 2002. It is, actually. Despite the ridiculous premise which would never get made today, it is actually quite a delightful rom com. So you scoff. And Ralph Fiends is in it.

[D]

Oh, love Rafe and.

[C]

And Stanley Tucci.

[D]

Love him too. Love him in anything.

[C]

I actually, really, I do enjoy. I mean, I haven't watched in a very long time, but Made in Manhattan is kind of a delightful movie. Just putting that out there.

[D]

Okay, maybe I need to go back and, A, watch it, but B, amend my list after watching it just to rage, bait Sam some more. Because I left off Hustlers, but so I need to watch Hustlers. Sounds like I have a JLo movie marathon in front of me also.

[C]

Okay. I'm now, like, deep in Made of Manhattan lore. It was directed by a director that I was not familiar with, but who has directed some very interesting. Like, he has an interesting oeuvre. It was directed by Wayne Wang. He also directed Smoke, which is, like, an iconic 90s movie with Harvey Keitel. He directed the adaptation of the Joy Luck Club. Yeah, so he directed Made in Manhattan.

[D]

Yes, He's a legit director.

[C]

Yes. He directed Made in Manhattan, so I just think it's interesting.

[D]

Mm. I did do a rewatch.

[C]

That is what he directed.

[D]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm gonna go back. I have a Big JLO movie marathon in store. And I think you do.

[C]

I think you do.

[D]

I do love out of Sight. Out of Sight is one of my favorites.

[C]

Out of Sight is iconic. Huh? Now I'm like, I don't know how.

[D]

They got onto that, too. Cause this is before I arrived at dinner.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

How did. How did they get onto that?

[D]

Who knows? Who knows? But. But just to close the loop on dinner, it was so much fun, we decided to do a tasting menu in which the tasting menu offers two choices. Like, you can do choice A or choice B. So, you know, for the first. First course, you could choose the marinated heirloom tomatoes or the hamachi crudo. And then for another, you could do the grilled Caesar salad or the iceberg wedge. And so since it was the two of us and we were both doing the tasting menu, I chose one column, and he chose the other column. So we got to eat everything on there, because we just ate. You know, we ate family style for everything, and it was the best. Sam and I left very happy, very full, and we told Sean we would definitely be seeing him again. We had a great time. Yeah. Yeah. And we. And I like those nights where it's totally spontaneous that we wound up together and hanging out, and you get to really catch up. It was like a private dining room, too. Nobody else was there. It's a great Wednesday night hang. We've been friends for 15 years, and then we were enjoying the food and enjoying the company and just having a good time so much that we were like, God, I just thank you for being my friend. You know, like, this. This is.

[B]

Meant so much to me.

[D]

You know, we just spent a lot of time just affirming how awesome it is that we found ourselves in the same place at this point in our lives and got to just go and eat steaks and many other foods. Really only one steak because we. There was steak or duck. And so one of us got the duck, and the other one got the steak. And then we got to, you know, try everybody else's or try each other's. So it was so much fun.

[C]

Just to close the loop on JLo.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

I lived in Philly when she and Ben Affleck were shooting Gigli.

[D]

Oh, my gosh. Which is known as what, like, the worst movie of all time.

[C]

One of the worst movies of all time. But the. The. The frenzy in the city. Around having. So shot in Philly. Around having. Or maybe shot in Jersey, like, close to Philly. Anyway, they were staying in Philly for an extended period of time and it was maybe the most exciting thing that had like ever happened to Philadelphia.

[D]

Besides, I don't know, like the Declaration of Independence.

[C]

I mean it was like the Declaration of Independence and Ben and JLO staying at the Four Seasons. That was like pretty equal, honestly.

[D]

Anyway, funny.

[C]

Elise, we should probably introduce our guest.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

Speaking of celebrities, we have our in house celebrity makeup artist Rachel Goodwin on the show today. As y' all probably know, but if you're a new listener, Rachel comes onto our show, our humble show, our humble podcast like two or three times a year. We try to do it every quarter but she is a very busy lady because she is a leading fashion and celebrity makeup artist and she did her early training at the San Francisco Opera House. She's worked on the Runway backstages in New York City and Paris. Currently lives in Los Angeles. She's a decades long artist ambassador for Chanel Nars and a content creator for brands like Sisley and Japan's Ko Gen Do. Rachel's impressive roster of clients includes Emma Stone, Priyanka Chopra, Awkwafina, Julia Roberts, Brie Larson, Michelle Dockery. This summer she had Alanis Morissette out in Glastonbury, which she talks about. And Leslie Bibb, star of the recent season of the White Lotus. We love having her on the show.

[C]

Love Rachel. Love Leslie Bib. And before we get to Rachel, just a reminder that everything we mention and everything Rachel mentions is on our website forever35podcast.com we also have a shelf of Rachel Goodwin Rex on our shop my, which is Shopmy Us Forever 35. So if you want all of her recommendations in one place, you can head over there. Our Instagram is Forever35podcast. We have a [e-mail] Forever35 we have ad free episodes at the $10 level. So if you don't want to listen to ads which like I get, you can join us at the $10 level and listen to those blissful ad free episodes in addition to getting our casual chats once a week, our pop culture recommendation episodes and so much more. Patreon.com Forever35 you can call or text us at 781-591-0390 and email us at forever35podcastmail.com and we will be right back with Rachel.

[D]

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[C]

Rachel welcome back to Forever35.

[B]

I'm so happy to see you ladies.

[D]

You have been everywhere according to your Instagram. So catch us up. What have you been up to? And then while you have been on the road, how have you been taking care of yourself? Hmm.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, I, unbeknownst to me, had a European summer just happen happen to me, which I feel super grateful for. It was not intentional. You know, it kind of happened in a way that was not foreseen. Although I do work with Alanis Morissette and months back she had said on her bucket list was, you know, Glastonbury Festival and they'd asked her to do it and she was considering it and then she did. And so I said, if you do it, I'm there. And that's how that, that was one of the highlights. And, and that was truly, I have to say, like I hadn't had it on my bucket list.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

But it became a bucket list experience. So I'm really grateful for that. That was like, wow. But I ended up staying in Europe for quite some time.

[D]

And was that just a coincidence too? Like you happened to already be there and you were gonna come back, but then you got booked for other jobs or how did that all go down?

[B]

Yeah, so I had a few. I had some, some other jobs sort of happen in the meantime. So I wait. I actually had some downtime, which doesn't happen to me very often. But it wasn't enough time for me to go home. So I just decided, you know, I called my husband and you know, our kids are getting into that age bracket where it's like they want me around, but they also are okay. You know, I, for years with my job has always been. Travel has been a big part of my job, but for many, many years I would go get off the plane, work, get back on the plane and rush home. And I'm just now getting to that point in my, in my motherhood, you know, cycle where I can add on tack on days and things like that and actually not feel that insane amount of pressure because the kids are. They're growing independently, they're doing more things on their own. And so I just felt like, wow. Like I talked to him about it and he was like, stay. So I just stuck it out. I pretended that I lived in Paris for a full week and didn't have any work really obligations. So I. The way I took care of myself rather than sort of taking care of myself, I suppose in the more self care way, like massages or vitamins or supplements. I decided to just live the artist's way for a full week, which just hasn't happened in my life in a very long time. And I took myself on artist dates every single day. And there's no better place for that, in my opinion than Paris. And that actually I felt so incredibly full when I left because I felt reignited. Re inspired from a work standpoint.

[D]

I'm so envious. It's just like it sounds like such a dream. And it seemed like you were eating great food. Food, which is what I live for.

[B]

Me too. Same you. We're the same. This way put me in a bad mood for hours. So. Yeah. Yeah.

[D]

And then just on Glastonbury, I know that's such a special and iconic music festival. What makes it so iconic?

[B]

Well, I didn't really understand it, I'll be honest. I've heard about it for years. I've known people who've gone and people who speak about it in this way, almost like religiously about it, and I didn't really fully understand it. It's an energy thing for sure. I mean, first of all, you're like passing Stonehenge on your way out there. So the land is crazy, like, you know, but also what I really was so shocking to me because of course, I'm back behind everything. So I'm seeing it from, like this rarefied point of view. But then I said, I have to go out there. I have to go into this space and, like, really feel is a village, it is a city. It is. People are there. But I went out and I thought, oh, I'm gonna feel so overwhelmed. And I'm gonna be like, I don't. You know, I'm not a big crowds person. And I literally got out there and no one was on a cell phone. There were families, there were young people, old people, like every type of person you can imagine. And everyone was just present and being in the moment and not. And just such a good energy was so beautiful and there for the music, there for the connection. No, but I get it now. I get it.

[C]

Well, it sounds like you had such an amazing and restorative summer, and our listeners are glad that you are back and they had a lot of questions for you. So I guess let's just. Let's just get into it.

[B]

I'm so ready.

[C]

We have gotten a version of this question before, but it seems to be a recurring theme. So this listener says that they are wanting to build back some basic makeup after not wearing much since having a kid. And what would you Recommend For a 1 to 2 minute face? 5 minutes seems like too much of a leap. The bare essentials.

[B]

We're hacking the five minutes. This is new. Yes. Okay. I would definitely say a tinted moisturizer is your friend, like, any kind of tint at all. Right. So I think the first thing that came to mind was, was the. Well, it's actually not even a. It's not actually a tinted moisturizer. It's a sunscreen slash primer, which is one of my favorite products by St. Jane. And it's just such a gorgeous product. But it just gives your skin a slight refinement, covers you for sunscreen, has a beautiful sensorial smell. It's like a jasmine. It's beautiful. And it's like two seconds. So I think that's a really great quick solution. 30 seconds tops. Let's go to the next 30 seconds. I would get. Oh, gosh. Oh, gosh. I love, you know, a lip cheek combo. So Iris and Romeo is one of my favorite brands for this. Iris and Romeo, I think do this so well because it's like this quick, portable little thing. Have it in your bag, boom. Lips, cheeks, you're done. Even eyes if you feel like, right? So like that's like another 30 seconds tops. For me. Mascara is a non negotiable. Not everyone is this person, but for me it's like, you know, a mascara is, is, is your friend. If you want to just kind of like give yourself a quick little awake. I'm awake. And so for me, those formulas for me for mascara, I'm a drugstore girl. And the reason why is because you have to throw it out so fast so often. I love l' Oreal Voluminous, I love Neutrogena. I like the natural sort of leaning mascaras, like the Neutrogena one is really great because it just kind of gives yours, your lashes a little bit of a stain and a boost without looking overly done or clumping or anything like that. And then I would say like, you know, it depends, you know, if you have that 20 more seconds left, you can do a quick little brow judge. And that could just in, you know, that could even be a tinted brow gel. If you don't want to do a pencil. If you don't want to do just kind of get like a tinted brow gel that's your shade or one shade deeper. If you have lighter eyebrows, quick do a quick brush up and, and that and you're good. Like you don't need anything else. I mean, great. I love using like even lip balm, clear lip balm, just on the, on my eyelid, you know, just to give a little like sheen or something. But honestly, there's little things I do and you know, I again, you know, I travel a lot and sometimes you'll land in a place and you're like, oh my God, I look like a walking zombie. So those are my little, that's what I do probably right on the plane before I walk out into a new city is what I just explained.

[D]

Love it, Love it. Okay, what type of makeup product that is, foundation, eyeshadow, etc. Should you splurge on? Not mascara?

[B]

I, I'll go, I'm going to die on that hill. Don't splurge on the mascara. I would say the splurgiest things for me makeup wise are complexion products. I think complexion products are important because formulas are so specific to your skin color type. And you know, quality really does matter in this area because ingredient wise, you're putting it on the surface of your skin on the most amount of surface and so cleaner, more, you know, high, high quality ingredients in my opinion, Matter in, in complexion products. When it comes to slurge though, anything that makes me feel something which is increasingly less, which is sad to me because I don't know if I'm like going numb from all the cosmetics, but I'm like, what's. I want the, like I want the chase, I want the COVID You know, I would say, you know, anything right now that in my world that's covetable, which is like universal bully products. Like the little like lip thing from them, like a beautiful keepsake. Like Lisa Eldridge's gorgeous aluminum lipstick case that you could have engraved as a gift for someone or like for yourself as a gift. I think those types of things, they're worth the splurge because they have an emotional charge and they're going to be with you. They're going to last.

[D]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

This listener says, I only wear tinted sunscreen. And they wear the Color Science Sun Forgettable Total Protection Face Shield Flex. And they highly recommend it because I don't like anything that feels heavy on my skin. It works great.

[B]

Love it.

[C]

But I recently turned 40 and have noticed the dark circles under my eyes are becoming more pronounced and the sunscreen alone is no longer cutting it. After a couple of hours, that area is starting to look dry and cakey. I've never worn any under eye products because it's never been a problem until now. What products do you recommend to help correct this issue? Would love to try something that is hydrating and light, that doesn't feel like I'm wearing any makeup.

[B]

You know, I just recently got sent this. I'm trying to remember the actual name of it. I'm gonna find it. It's in my. It's in my stash.

[D]

Your stash? Your giant stash of makeup?

[B]

With my sister in law because she helps me in the office sometimes unpacking all this stuff. And I was opened this l' Oreal box and I almost didn't think much of it because there was only two little things in there. And I looked and it was this concealer and it was like all day lasting and I thought, I don't really use that stuff. You can have it. She's like, why? You just try it and see if it's any good, you know, before you give it away. And I tried it on and I'm obsessed with it. It's such good concealer and it feels like nothing. And it lasts. I don't know how it does. I don't. I almost don't want to know. But I honestly, I was, like, blown away by this concealer. I'm not asking too many questions. Let's be real.

[D]

But l' Oreal brand.

[B]

It's l'. Oreal. L' Oreal Skin, Inc. Has anyone heard of this ink?

[D]

No, I haven't seen it. No.

[B]

Okay. Wow. Like, I don't know what the story is with this stuff. You.

[D]

How did they know the right shade for you?

[B]

I, I, they took a guess. I don't know. It was strange. I don't know how, like, wide this range is. I'm assuming, because it's l'. Oreal, it's a very wide rang range of colors. But this one is sort of a warmer undertone than I would have even thought. But I actually like it because it does cut any. Like, if I have sort of, you know, purple, it. Because for me, I get, like, this sort of purplish color when I'm really tired, and I have very thin skin underneath my eyes. And I wore this on my last journey because it was very humid in Venice, like, so humid. I mean, I couldn't. Everything was just sliding off my face. And this stayed on. It was so, so miraculous.

[D]

Without looking cakey.

[B]

Without looking cakey. It's so sheer. It goes on so sheer, and it covers and, like, so it's weightless. I have to. I cannot. This is my new drugstore. Fine. I'm obsessed, absolutely obsessed with skin ink. So that's my newest latest. The other thing I would say, if I'm, like, a person who's never worn it, doesn't like to wear concealer at all. I really love sort of pencils, like, dryer little pencils that are. You literally just cover the spot versus Just, if you, if you don't want it, do a whole thing where you're like, I don't like to wear makeup. It's not my thing. You just want to cover the darker piece and just be done with it. Right. I love Lisa Eldridge's pencils. This is more high end. This is, like, more of a drugstore, I think. Lisa Eldridge is such an incredible makeup artist. She's done a beautiful line. She has these pencils that are thin every shade you can imagine. And you. So you just find your shade, and you just gently sort of color over the dark spot, and then blend with your finger really slightly, and you're done. And you can use it at the edge of your lips. Use it on, you know, under. At the corners of your eyes, anywhere where you have a little discoloration, and you keep the product to a Minimum. Which is the key. Always.

[D]

I like how we're going high, low. Yes, I think option in each lane.

[B]

Exactly.

[D]

Okay. Question for Rachel. How to choose an eyelash curler? They all seem to function the same, but is there something I should look for? Do you have a fav. What is your recommendation? The little pads on mine, minor growth and keep falling out, so I'm probably going to get a new one soon.

[B]

First of all, if you're. If your little cushions are yucky, there should be refills for those. I don't know which one you have, but they either come with refills or you can get your refills. If you have a model that no longer has refills, unfortunately, that means you probably want to check it because it's kind of useless without those pads. Those pads are really your friend. And when they get worn out or they get yucky, they can actually tear. They can do the opposite, which is like, tear out your eyelashes and do the opposite effect. So I would say my favorite is Mo. More or less. I love the Shiseido. The. The. The Japanese made ones are my favorite. So it used to be Shu Yamura Shuimura. And then I. Then I started using the Shiseido. Then I started using Trois Seurat. Then I started using. Because they weren't. But they're all. The. The commonality is that they're all made in pan. And what I like about them and what I think is important is the. The gentleness of the spring and the softness of the cushion. You could just use a makeup wipe or a little bit of makeup remover. And make sure you clean that little. That little pad and get the. Keep the. Don't use it. First of all, when you have mascara on already, that's one of the main, main things. But if you end up getting eye makeup on it and it gunks up, you really want to clean it, because the cleaner it is, the gentler it shapes the eyelash, and the gentler it is on your eyelash and it won't tear them out and leave you with bald. Bald patches and things like that. Because that's what I notice about women. They keep it in their bag. They don't clean it. It has stuff on it, and then it catches and then it pulls and it actually. It's counterintuitive then. So it's like, I'd rather you not do it. I'd rather you use a spoon. Okay.

[C]

A listener says that they skin pick. It's one of my stims. Do any concealers cover fresh scabs or recent picks.

[B]

Oh, gosh, you know, I don't know. I mean, I would maybe think Dermablend, which is a professional brand that's designed for, you know, on set, waterproof type things. I, my instinct is if you, I mean, only if you absolutely have to cover it. But there was a product that Violette France made that was sort of a liquid bandage, she called it. I don't know if she still has it, but I do remember that when I saw it I went, wow, that was, that's really smart for someone who maybe has an, you know, a scab that they've picked or something, or a blemish that's sort of a bit open and they put foundation because you really do maybe want to lean against putting it on an open wound of any kind just because it's going to hinder the healing of it. But yeah, see if Violette France still has her liquid bandage. I think that would be something you put on top of the, of the scab and then you can probably apply almost anything. Honestly, I would maybe go with a waterproof formula like Makeup Forever or Dermablend or something like that. Like a professional brand versus consumer follow.

[D]

Up question is what Dermablend. Does Dermablend make the body makeup too? Because I like have little. I've just been bitten up around my ankles, you know, and if I'm wearing like a short skirt or something and I want to cover up all my little bug bite scars, where do I use?

[B]

Yeah, Dermablend is perfect for that because once it's on, it just, it sticks. There's a, there's a brand. I'm obsessed, obsessed with a body, a body makeup brand called Tinge and Tinge T I N G E. It's an awesome, awesome product. I've used it, I've used it in my kit for a while now for. I use it for red carpet. I use it for exactly what you just said. If like a girl's going to an event and she's wearing a, you know, skirt and she wants her legs to look even, there's little bites.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's either like if it's something really, really dark, I'll have to go in and use something really much heavier coverage. But Tinge is a body makeup that you can blend out and then it's water resistant, waterproof. So once it sets, it's kind of there and you can swim, you can do anything and it's really awesome. And it's, I think it's a brilliant product. Because it kind of like, crosses that really delicate bridge between professional and, you know, consumer. I think a lot of women want something like that, but they think it's just for makeup artists. So I think it's a really smart, really smart brand. And they have every shade. Like, there's. They've got an incredible color range.

[C]

Someone asks, when do you use lipstick above your upper lip line? And they say that they have noticed that you have done this several times, and they wonder when. When you are supposed to, like, in.

[D]

What cases do you decide to do that?

[B]

I do that. You know, so when I'm looking at a face, every face to me is sort of unique and different, and I sort of decide were sort of based on the shape of the lip, the sort of the drama of the makeup, the whether or not the person sort of has how big the space between the nose and the lip are. And sometimes it's. It's. It's just to kind of make the lips look larger. Sometimes it's to balance out, you know, proportions slightly. And I love lip liner. We talked about this last time. I'm such a fan of lip liner in general because I do think what it does for the lips, you know, it's like some women are. Most of the women I work with haven't been augmented in any way. They're pretty. Pretty much just going au natural, which is, you know, it can be, I think, in the public eye, slightly scary. So I do my little tricks and things that I think can maybe ramp up their lip size or give them a fuller, you know, fuller lip without needing to do augmentation of any kind. So it's, like, a little tricky.

[D]

So I guess the answer is case by case, because it depends on the face and it depends on the face.

[B]

Depends on the moment. Yeah.

[D]

That you're look. The makeup look that you're going for.

[B]

It's not like I do that on. On every makeup I do. It's just I do it when I feel like it calls for it, and it's hard to know when that's going to be. But, yeah, I'm so curious which ones they're, like, talking about specific.

[C]

I know.

[B]

I'm like, tell me which one. I'll tell you. But I.

[D]

Your work is studied closely.

[B]

I know.

[C]

So we're just going to take a short break, and we will be right back.

[D]

The kids are off to school, and I'm left feeling that nostalgia of a fresh start to the school year, the urge to learn something new. Thankfully, I don't have to do anything more than just open up my Masterclass app and hop into a lesson about my skin from the original series skin Health with Dr. Sherene Idris. It's 10 minutes. I learned something new about how to care for the largest organ on our bodies and satisfy that urge to learn without the nuisance of actually going back to school. With Masterclass, you can learn from the best to become your best. With plans starting at $10 a month build annually, you'll get unlimited access to over 200 plus classes taught by the world's best business leaders, writers, chefs and more. With Masterclass, you get thousands of bite sized lessons across 13 categories that can fit into even the busiest of schedules. Right now our listeners get an additional 15% off any annual [e-mail] forever35 plus every new membership comes with a 30 day money back guarantee so there's no risk. That's 15% [e-mail] forever35 masterclass.com forever35.

[B]

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But I'm your hype man. When you purchase an eligible device, you get $25 off every month for 12 months with credits totaling one year of free service. Taxes extra for the device and service plan online only.

[D]

Well, now that we're on the topic of lips, we have received a series of questions on lips. One is have you tried the Wonder Skin lip stain? The kind that kind of like goes on blue? And then the corollary is I'm looking for a true lip stain that lasts all day without drying out my lips. Is this impossible? So Wonder skin and then a true lip stain that's not drying.

[B]

Okay, first and foremost, I did try the Wonder Skin. I thought it was fun and novel and, you know, had its place. But I don't know that I'm the daily customer for that. I think I don't use it in my work and it would probably be if it's something, because anything that's too permanent always freaks me out because I have to be nimble in my job. Like if something is not, say, I do a look and we decide last minute, oh, that's not the look. I have to be able to shift it, change it. I have to remain really, really nimble. So I would not use that in my profession per se, but I would say that like. So I would look at it as more of a personal product. And in that case I did think it was fun, but I'M not necessarily using it daily either. So I think it was, like, a fun, trendy thing to try from a practical standpoint. It's not really my bag. And then the other question was a lip stain. This is a question that has haunted me my whole life, so I'm so with you. I relate to this, and I'm actually in the process of trying to create this, so I will keep you posted. Yeah. I have been wanting this for so many years, and I'm a lip balm fanatic. I'm a lip stain fanatic, and so I have been trying to create a hybrid that will actually last, and it's counterintuitive, and it's been a really tricky thing to do. So I am working on that at the moment with a incredible chemist, and I'll keep you posted if I find anything in the meantime. I haven't found one, no. But I hope I can create it for you.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

All right. That's exciting.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And now this is a very specific question. This listener is looking for a bridal lipstick that isn't too Barbie pink, maybe a little bit deeper and rosier.

[B]

Okay. It's a splurge, but it's your. It's your wedding day, so I'm gonna say Chanel's Rouge 31. The one in the. There's a. It's the one that's sort of the refill for that beautiful glass case. Now, I know that is such a splurge and absolutely ridiculous price point, but there's a color that I thought. I think is just so incredible. I think it's number 31. I don't think they have names, but it's a rosy. It's a delicate English rosy. Beautiful. Like, you just can use that and, like, blend it out almost like a. It's a more of a matte texture. It's not glossy, but I think you can almost, like, smudge it with a brush and let it sort of be a stain. Maybe use a very neutral lip liner so that it doesn't bleed or go anywhere. If you want to just place a clear balm on top. The color, I just think lights up the face. It's so beautiful. It's so feminine. And it's like the perfect rose, in my opinion. So that. That would be one if you want to be on the splurgy wedding day splurge. If you want to keep it a little bit more in the. In a. In a more, you know, realistic budget, I would say Sicily makes a really gorgeous. It's a. It's a. It looks like a chubby pencil. And it's a. It is an emollient. So it is sort of like a lip balm with color. But I find the hydration factor and the, and the color density to be absolutely exquisite. So I would look at their range of those pencils, those feto, I think they're called feto pencils or phyto pens. And the rosy shade, like a. It's a. Because it's pink, but it's sheer, so it looks friendly. It doesn't look Barbie, it doesn't look tacky. It's great. And you can just do it. Reply reapply without looking on your wedding day, which in my opinion is worth its weight in gold.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Again, not drugstore cheap, but worth the splurge on a date like that.

[D]

Okay, so the next question, based on our visits with you, I think I already know the answer to this, but the question is for foundation or concealer, apply with fingers. Beauty blender or foundation brush.

[B]

So it, it's interesting because it's kind of a combination. I use fingers and then I use a brush to sort of go over and so in my, in my opinion, and is that I like to put on the makeup and then remove the makeup. Any extra. I don't like to leave anything on top of the skin that feels like it's going to move around or it's going to, you know, so it's like, I almost leave behind like a, like a faint trace of coverage and that allows the person's skin to really shine through. So I'll play it with, you know, dot, dot on the face, and then I'll take a brush and I will go over it and almost sort of like, until it almost disappears. Like, it's, it's just the faintest trace left and it still gives you the coverage. It, it gives you everything that you need. But it's not gonna, you know, if it, if you, your. When your skin heats up, when the sun shines, when you know you're halfway through your day, it's not melting off, it's not going anywhere. It's. It's still just going to, you know, it's going to last hours longer. You can touch it up easily. So it's really, I think a combination of. Of spun or, I'm sorry, brush and fingers. For me, I do love a beauty blender, though, on occasion. So I don't want to, like, I'm all about the beauty blender. It's just, I think I use it less for some reason. Now I went through years where I only used it, but now I feel like I'm more on a brush kick.

[D]

It's. I only thought that I knew the answer to this because we've spent time on our previous episodes talking about how it's totally okay to just use your fingers for eyeshadow and just like blend it out. And I really took that advice to heart because I never know. There's just like too many brushes in the world and I never know which one I'm supposed to use where, and, like, how to use them properly. And I'm just like, yeah, and hope for the best.

[B]

You know what? I just, I feel like, like we said last time, or I said, you know, when we were chatting last time, I just feel like women have been so bogged down and, and I. And I want to lighten the load. Like, I really want to do that.

[D]

Appreciate that.

[C]

Amazing. Okay, Rachel, last question. A listener is wondering how to best combine oil and water products. And they're specifically asking about moisturizers, skin tint, settings. Like they're. Wait, I think, I think what they're asking is, do you use a moisturizer, skin tint or setting spray to combine them?

[B]

This is good. So this is, this is a question that I think is really important that I think a lot of people don't talk about, which is, as a makeup artist, you know, it's kind of my job to know how to layer products and which products are going to be, you know, that work well with others, play well with others.

[D]

Against the previous thing.

[B]

Exactly. And it's. And it's something that usually has to be sort of, you know, there's really no other way around it than to experiment a lot of times and, you know, mess up and find out. Oh, you know, it's just like. But, you know, if you think about it as a vinaigrette, which is how you want to think about it.

[C]

I'm listening.

[B]

Okay. You know. Yeah. Can oil and water be combined eventually? Sure. But it takes a lot of finessing and often it does repel before it goes together. Right. It separates before it comes together. I tend to use oil based products with other oil based products only because I know a hundred percent I am not going to have a fight on my hands. There's not gonna be any pilling, there's not gonna be any, you know, separation, and I don't have time for nonsense like that on big days. So I am very careful about what I combine. But in that sense, I'm sure every woman has Tried something and put it on top and gone like, what's happening? You know, like, why is it doing that? You know, and that's, it's part of the journey. Oh yes. So different. I, I, I, when I do Alanis, I, you know, I've been lucky enough to work with her for many years and I, she's one of the most beings and she's a consummate. Oh my God. It was, yeah. So with that particular one, it was quite, it was quite hot that day actually and it was a daytime like as the sun was setting show. And so we were, you know, it was it's height of summer and I was worried right about the sliding around. So I, in those cases I absolutely use a primer, I use a setting spray, I use waterproof products. And there's been occasions, not particularly this one, but where you can actually use deodorant antiperspirant, which I don't advise outside of being absolutely necessary, you know, above the lip or around the hairline and things like that to keep sweat from just like completely destroying a makeup. But I use waterproof formula mascara that on days like that I use and these are things I normally don't use when I'm just with her and she's going to an event or I'm with her and you know, we're doing a photo shoot or something like that. It's really was saved for performance and I think because she moves around a lot, she, her hair is swinging, she's, she's so dynamic on stage. Of course she's going to sweat a lot. That's just like, I mean, I don't know how she even does that. So I use the primer that I really, really love is, I often will use either the Tatcha one or really, really expensive one. I love is by Serge Luten. It's white, which is strange for most people because it literally looks white in the thing. But then when you put it on it kind of blends into the skin and it just creates like a barrier. And then I will place like a really, really great like waterproof or water resistant formula of foundation on top of that. And then I use something around the nose and, and forehead called Nanoblur. And Nanoblur is literally like, and it like it absorbs the moisture and mat and it doesn't have any color, nothing. And it just sort of holds on to the makeup in a way that allows her to sweat and also not shine. So it's a, it's a silicone based product. Again, professional Product that I love for those kinds of moments. And then if I do a setting spray, you know, I will. I use a cry. I use the Cryolon, which is, like, probably. I don't know what is in it. Probably, like, but it's lacquer, essentially. It's for, like. I'm sure they're using it in Cirque du Soleil. I'm sure they're using it and things like that, where you, like, have to keep the makeup perfectly placed, but for short periods of time and just. You gotta pull out the big guns. So the Kryolan spray is my friend in those moments. And that's usually where, you know. And then I don't use glossy textures. I don't use gloss on lips. You know, she's playing the micro. She's playing the harmonica. And so you don't want that. I use, like, a ball over the stain. Yeah, it's a matte stain for that. And I. And I like to keep everything, again, as minimal as. As possible so that she gets to shine through. But, like, the skin is looking almost like it doesn't have makeup on, you know, so it's like a lot of prep. I always think it's like painting a house. Like, measure twice, cut once. It's like you do all the prep and then a little bit of makeup on the skin, and then the rest sort of. And it just looks like she has barely anything on.

[D]

Fantastic. Such an interesting. Behind the curtain.

[C]

It seems like so much of your job is sort of like trial and error. Like you're trying things out to see what works, and it's. It's. It just sounds so fun and like it's a new challenge all the time.

[B]

Well, and that's the thing. I understand, like, the time constraints that we all have, and I understand women feeling intimidated and overwhelmed, because I think that is the world of cosmetics that we're in right now and the business of beauty that we have, we've never experienced it this. This immense, you know, level. Right. Culturally. And I think that even with YouTube and TikTok and, you know, the information that's coming at us on a daily basis is so, so overwhelming. But what I. What I wish and wish I could imbue and. Or inform or without, you know, whatever, I'm. I just. I think my job here at this point in my career is to. Is help women remember that that's where the good stuff is, is in the playing and the. And the messing up and then. And then coming out on the other end with the knowledge, right? So I think that there are. There's this fear because social media is so critical and severe, the severe amount of judgment we. That we. That we experience in the real world and then we internalize. We now have created an environment, even in our own minds, in which we can't experiment and mess up without feeling like failures somehow. And I just want. If I could do anything, it would be to give that voice, like, a little bit of a shush and say, play around, mess up, come out wiser, because that's how we do it. Makeup artists and. And. And are. That's. That is all that we have done differently, as we have done that for years. And. And. And we've messed up, and then we fixed the thing that we messed up, and then we've learned from that, and we've gotten better. And I think any woman in her own. In her own beauty routine can just do the same approach, like, you know, let herself off the hook and blow it a few times and then come out. Come out greater.

[D]

And it's the fun stuff. It's fun.

[B]

Supposed to be fun. I mean, God, if it stops being fun, I think we've lost it.

[D]

What are we doing here?

[B]

What are we doing here?

[D]

Rachel Goodwin, it's always such a delight to have you on the show. Thank you for answering so many of our listener questions. And we will save more for next time because we are overflowing with questions for you, so.

[B]

Oh, my God, this is like. I get so excited when you guys reach out.

[D]

It's time for the Rachel segment.

[B]

Thank you, ladies, so much.

[C]

Well, she was great, as always.

[D]

Yes. And as Dory mentioned, you can see all the products that she recommended on her own. Shop My shelf.

[C]

Yes.

[D]

Which is at Shopmy US./forever35. Just look for the Rachel Goodwin shelf.

[C]

Just look for it. All right, Elise, last week you said you were going to keep your nervous system regulated. How's that going?

[D]

Nope. That's a no. I. I've been, like, every afternoon after school has been chaotic in this house. Like, the kids are going all over the place. They have so many different activities every night or assignments due the next day. And it was picture day today. And, like, I feel like my nervous system has been upregulated. It has not been down regulated. So I've just been, like, very stressed out, especially in the afternoons, dealing with all of their things and just getting them to the places they need to be. And then we added another creature in the house because Rob got very sad that Cece the hermit crab didn't have a friend in his crabitat and so I decided to get another hermit crab. Welcome Pepper to the Houston family. But now, now there's more stuff to take care of so I'm just like what? So this week I am going to probably just re up this intention. Mindfulness will be the intentioned so that I don't like just start yelling at my kids or getting super just short views with them.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

So that is the intention. Just staying present, keeping it cool, keeping it at a chill too like I wanted to last week.

[C]

Love that.

[D]

Dory, what about you?

[C]

Well, last week I said I was going to start a strength routine and I have not done that. So I'm adding that to my intentions this week and I think I'm going to start decluttering, which is something that I talk about a little bit more on Wednesday's mini ep. So tune in for that.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And yeah, that's it.

[D]

Okay. Good luck. Godspeed.

[B]

Thank you.

[D]

I do not like that work. I find it very tedious. But I know that it's something you really want to get done.

[C]

So yes and Forever 35 is hosted and produced by me, Dori Shafriar, Annalise Hu and produced and edited by Sam Junio. Sammy Reed is our Project Manager and our network partner is acast. Thanks everyone for listening.

[D]

Talk to you next time.

[C]

Bye. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts.

[B]

Here's a show that we recommend.

[D]

I'm Eden Share.

[A]

And I'm Brock Ciarle.

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We played best friends on the Middle.

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And became best friends in real life.

[D]

We're here to rewatch the Middle with all of you.

[A]

Each week we'll recap an episode with behind the scenes stories, guest interviews and what we think now, many years later.

[D]

There'S a lot to dive into.

[B]

So let's get to middling. ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.