Episode 374: So Our Parents Are Old with Vanessa Grigoriadis

Summary

Forever35, Episode 374: “So Our Parents Are Old” with Vanessa Grigoriadis

Hosts: Doree Shafrir & Elise Hu
Guest: Vanessa Grigoriadis
Date: October 20, 2025

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Overview

This episode of Forever35 centers on the often-unspoken challenges of caring for aging parents—a topic at the heart of journalist Vanessa Grigoriadis’s new podcast, “So Your Parents Are Old.” Doree, Elise, and Vanessa candidly unpack the emotional, logistical, and financial hurdles of the “third shift” so many Gen Xers and older millennials face: raising children, working, and now managing a parent’s decline. The conversation offers equal doses of humor, insight, and practical advice while also acknowledging how isolating, taboo, and systemically unsupported this experience can be.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Sandwich Generation Reality

• 00:02:18 – 00:03:24: Doree and Elise set the stage: Many listeners are actively juggling children and parents showing signs of aging—from repeated questions to leaving the stove on.
• Elise: “It’s like you have children at home and your parents are kind of getting into that age where they’re asking the same question over and over again... Or potentially leaving the stove on. Or maybe not being able to live on their own anymore.” (02:19)

2. Vanessa’s Story and Podcast Inspiration

• 00:14:41 – 00:19:33:
  • Vanessa shares her personal situation (only child, father deceased, mother with severe health challenges and memory loss).
  • Describes her sense of duty as her mother’s “producer”—navigating medical, financial, and daily logistics.
  • She describes this as a “third shift” on top of kids and work—another full-time job.
  • Vanessa: “In your feeling of what’s most important... The third is taking care of your parents. It’s just another eight-hour day.” (19:21)

3. The Isolation and Taboo of Caregiving

• 00:22:45 – 00:25:00:
  • Vanessa laments the lack of open discussion about parental decline.
    • “There’s really nobody who’s talking about this. Like, it’s almost a taboo subject in some ways.” (22:45)
  • She compares it to infertility—intensely all-consuming, but hard to relate to (or talk about) unless you’re in it.

4. Emotional Realities & Impact on Relationships

• 00:25:00 – 00:27:48:
  • Talking—and laughing—with others in this position is a comfort, especially with guests who use humor (like Lewis Black).
  • She notes friendships may drift as some friends aren’t emotionally equipped to face decline.
    • “Family takes care of family. That’s just the truth.” (27:38)

5. The Logistics and Costs of Elder Care

• 00:31:49 – 00:36:43:
  • Vanessa details the prohibitive cost of assisted living and memory care, and the lack of Medicare coverage for these services.
    • “Medicare does not pay for any sort of assisted living... [Medicaid] only for nursing homes… In NY, 40 patients to one aide is what’s legally allowed in a Medicaid nursing home.” (31:49, 33:35)
  • Many middle-class families are forced to “bankrupt” a parent to access Medicaid facilities.
    • “You’re spending all the money that she has to move into one of these places… It’s demographically the problem of our age.” (35:13, 36:43)

6. Tips, Warnings, and Emotional Navigation

• 00:37:59 – 00:40:48:
  • Early warning signs: leaving the stove on, getting lost, spoiled food in the fridge.
  • Vanessa urges listeners: “If you think it might be your problem, it’s your problem.” (38:12)
  • Suggests trying for regular check-ins, even if scheduled.
  • Acknowledges the pain for those who don’t get along with their parents or are estranged.

7. Vanessa’s Journalism & Aging Out of “The Cut”

• 00:41:55 – 00:47:04:
  • She's interested in building media (like The Cut) for women in their 40s–50s and in covering the foibles of the “new” 1%.
  • On the shift in media and wealthy circles:
    • “You really need $20 million to be considered...high net worth, to really roll with that group.” (43:28)
    • Observes that the wealthy’s objects/homes/art have only become more expensive and morality more blurred.

8. Insights on Podcasting vs. Magazine Journalism

• 00:47:45 – 00:49:33:
  • Reflects that in podcasting, narrators must be “questing, curious, likable”—unlike the sharper narrators of classic magazine journalism.
  • “The problem in podcasting...everybody has to like you...in the audio-visual medium, you can’t be a writer who is really angry and really vituperative.” (49:20)

9. Book Recommendations and What’s Inspiring Vanessa

• 00:50:14 – 00:51:05:
  • Vanessa is immersed in memoirs and books about complicated parent relationships:
    • Jill Belofsky’s memoir (mother dying during COVID)
    • Amanda Uhl’s Destroy this House (about hoarder parents)
    • Prefers narratives about complicated mother-daughter relationships.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On caregiving as “the third shift”:
  “The first shift is maybe your kids, the second is work...and then the third is like taking care of your parents. It’s just another eight hour a day.”
  — Vanessa Grigoriadis (19:21)

• On the cultural taboo:
  “It’s almost a taboo subject in some ways...I do now occasionally go to dinner with my friends and it’s like, whose parent is dying, my knees hurt, 401K...we’ve turned into such squares.”
  — Vanessa Grigoriadis (22:45)

• On the financial reality:
  “Medicare does not pay for any sort of assisted living. So retirement home, memory care…basically, you’re looking at bankrupting yourself.”
  — Vanessa Grigoriadis (31:49)

• On friendships and support:
  “Family takes care of family. That’s just the truth. When people get sick, that’s who actually calls and sticks around.”
  — Vanessa Grigoriadis (27:38)

• On advice:
  “If you think it might be your problem, it’s your problem…don’t just be annoyed…this could actually be signs of something worse.”
  — Vanessa Grigoriadis (38:12)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:02:18 — Setting up the theme: Caring for aging parents
• 00:14:41 — Vanessa introduction and background
• 00:17:02 — Self-care: “I do yoga...but I’m not a serum lover.”
• 00:18:23 — Inspiration for “So Your Parents Are Old” and discussion of her mother’s illness
• 00:22:45 — The “taboo” of caregiving conversations
• 00:25:00 — How caregiving reshapes friendships and loneliness
• 00:27:38 — “Family takes care of family”
• 00:31:49 — The costs and logistics of care facilities; Medicaid nuances
• 00:37:59 — Early warning signs and advice for listeners
• 00:41:55 — Vanessa’s media curiosity: “older women’s The Cut,” 1% coverage
• 00:47:45 — Differences between magazine writing and podcasting
• 00:50:14 — Vanessa’s recommended reading on family and aging

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Further References

• Vanessa’s podcasts: “So Your Parents Are Old” and “Infamous”
• Book recs: Destroy this House by Amanda Uhl, Jill Belofsky’s memoir
• Vanessa’s articles: “Power Girls” (New York Magazine), Britney Spears (Rolling Stone)

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Tone

Supportive, self-aware, honest, with a blend of humor and genuine emotional candor. Conversation is frank and occasionally dark, but never without hope or connection.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode peels back the curtain on what it means to become the caretaker for parents—navigating bureaucracy, sibling dynamics, friendships, and finances, often with little societal guidance. Vanessa Grigoriadis brings her journalistic eye and personal experience, making space for those walking a similar path or about to embark on it—affirming, “You think things can’t get worse. Of course, they always can. And things can always get more chaotic.” (19:01)

A must-listen for anyone grappling with the sandwich generation squeeze, or simply craving honest conversation about aging, family, and how the real “self-care” sometimes means just getting through the day.

Transcript

[Elise Hu]

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[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

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[Elise Hu]

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[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

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[Dori Shafrir]

Selfies.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

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[Elise Hu]

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[Dori Shafrir]

Hello and welcome to Forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Dori Shafreer.

[Elise Hu]

And I'm Elise Hu. And we're just two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.

[Dori Shafrir]

And today we have a very special guest, Vanessa Gregoriadis, who I have known for a very long time. She is a. She was a longtime journalist, magazine writer. She started writing for New York magazine in like her early 20s. She wrote some iconic magazine pieces that if you read New York magazine in the late 90s and 2000s, you undoubtedly have read. She also wrote for Vanity Fair and Rolling Stone and like all the, all the blue chip big magazines. And then a few years ago she started a podcast company and she's done some amazing narrative podcasts and now she has a brand new podcast. So we will get to her a little later in the show. But we had a really interesting conversation with her. Not so like a little bit about magazine journalism, but mostly about taking care of aging parents, which is also the topic of her new show.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, and it's a topic on a lot of our minds right now, just by din of our age group. Right. Like this is the generation, like women between 35 and 45 or up are trying to balance so much. It's like you have, you often have children still at home and your parents are kind of getting into that age where they're like asking the same question over and over again.

[Dori Shafrir]

Totally.

[Elise Hu]

Or potentially leaving the stove on.

[Dori Shafrir]

Yep.

[Elise Hu]

Or maybe not being able to live on their own anymore. And, yeah, we get into all of that and how difficult it can be and also how isolating it can make a lot of us feel who are going through it. And Vanessa is sort of speaking to that. And that whole experience with her new show, it was cool, though, for me, just as an observer, because I didn't know Vanessa back in, like, the New York days, which is how Dory. You knew her, Right. As New York media people. But I didn't know her back then, but I know that I have read her work because she. Her beat was essentially like, fame, rich people, celebrity presenters.

[Dori Shafrir]

Yeah, yeah. She wrote a lot of celebrity profiles.

[Elise Hu]

And I think that there's always that voyeuristic element about that stratosphere that. That both magazine editors like to assign, but then people also like to read or hate read. You know, it's like the same reason why people loved succession. And I loved succession, too. It was just sort of, like, comical that at a certain stratosphere of wealth, like, the rules don't apply anymore. There are no consequences, or you don't believe there to be consequences. And everybody is friends. They all, like, know each other. Right? Right. And go to the same Yellowstone club to go skiing or whatever.

[Dori Shafrir]

Totally, totally. But before we get to Vanessa, what's going on with you?

[Elise Hu]

I am not in that stratosphere of wealth. So we're getting into that time of year where as a freelancer, and I know all the freelancers out there in the world will know this, like, I don't do the same thing as I did back when I worked for, like, one single institution where they do all your tax withholding for you. You know, it's like you get your check every two weeks or every 15 days or whatever it is, and then the taxes that you're going to owe and your Social Security and FICA and Medicare, they're all like, they're already yeeted out of your check. Now, as more of a freelancer or a contractor, I just get a full check. Like, I host a podcast or, you know, I. I write an article. They just give me the money, and I'm supposed to remember to, like, take out a certain. I think they recommend, like, 30% just to be safe. Like, if you get a thousand dollars to hold back 300 and put that away so that you can pay your taxes and. But inevitably, I get into around October, and I'm like, oh, crap. I was Supposed to do that now I'm just kind of. I'm doing that, like, tedious stuff at this time of year is the answer. That's what's going on with me. We did get some of our Halloween decorations up.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

We have.

[Elise Hu]

Yes. I don't have any, like, giant skeleton that's on my roof or anything. Even though that is the dream. That's the dream.

[Dori Shafrir]

Right.

[Elise Hu]

I've. I've been long wanting that and to be able to dress it. But it's the storage is the problem. The storage.

[Dori Shafrir]

Right.

[Elise Hu]

Comes up every. Like, Rob really wants one too. He's like, what if we had a skeleton? But also the skeleton had a skeleton dog. You could dress the skeleton and the dog. We get really excited. He's a big, you know, he is such a. Such a expanse of imagination. I love that about him. But we have no storage. So I put up our scary scientist. We have kind of a life size scary scientist that's hanging out there. And then I have a bat. And usually I hang the bat separately. It's kind of a scary bat. But Luna was very creative and she hung the bat from the skeleton hands of the crazy scientist, the mad scientist. And so it kind of looks. It looks even more menacing and scary. So that's fun. Yeah. Are y' all gonna do any Halloween decor or have you already?

[Dori Shafrir]

We have some Halloween decor. Henry loves Halloween. He loves anything spooky. So. Yeah, we have some Halloween lights that go up in his room and his playroom and we actually need to put those up. So.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, it's about.

[Dori Shafrir]

We don't really do. Yeah, we don't really do that many outside decorations because we have like a gate and a hedge, so you can't really see our yard. So it's sort of like pointless. Yeah, yeah, but.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, but that's good for privacy.

[Dori Shafrir]

It is good for privacy. It is good for. And. And that was also, you know, with Beau. He can. He can roam free in the. In the yard and like front and backyards because we have a gate. So that is nice.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, that is very nice. He has to get his afternoon sun.

[Dori Shafrir]

He does. I mean, not today, but generally. It is raining in Los Angeles today, so Beau will have to do without.

[Elise Hu]

Yes. And for those of you who are not subscribed to the Patreon yet, we go long on the topic of rain and just precipitation in general and Los Angeles.

[Dori Shafrir]

We do.

[Elise Hu]

We do in our latest casual chat, that's posts every Friday. So last Friday's has it. You can check that out. Join us there yeah, the precipitation is warm.

[Dori Shafrir]

Oh my gosh. I'm reading Ione Sky's memoir.

[Elise Hu]

Oh, the Ione sky, the actor. She was in say Anything. Say Anything.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Yes.

[Elise Hu]

What made you decide to read that one? There's so many memoirs.

[Dori Shafrir]

There are so many memoirs. I always really liked her. She was such a, like, iconic actress of my specific, like micro generation. Like say Anything came out, I think, when I was in middle school. And so it was a very like cultural touchstone. Cultural touchstone. Important movie for me. And she was such a, like Gen X icon and was sort of like in the mix in so many ways in LA and Hollywood. And I was. And I had heard that there was like she writes about her relationship with Anthony Kiedis when she was like a teenager. And I was just sort of curious, like, what, what the deal was. And yeah, I started reading it and I'm really enjoying it so far. And it's a real portrait of like LA in the 80s.

[Elise Hu]

Ooh.

[Dori Shafrir]

And like what it was like to.

[Elise Hu]

Be like a teen, like in the industry.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Yeah.

[Dori Shafrir]

And like I know every place that she's talk about, she lived not far from me. Like, it's, it's just, it's, it's fun. She went to Hollywood high. Like, wow. It's. Yeah. So I'm enjoying it. It's a good, it's a good read.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. Okay, cool. I, I, there's one thing I remember from say Anything and it's not the boombox thing. It's the party at the beginning of the movie where like everybody puts their keys in a fishbowl. That's the first time I've seen that idea. Like, I didn't know that you could do that or that people did that. So he collects a bunch of keys right in the fishbowl so that nobody drives home drunk. I saw that movie. I must have been so young. And so I just didn't know that, like drunk driving or I don't know. But I liked that idea and it still sticks with me. And I guess now we just have Uber and Waymo and whatever else to prevent drunk driving.

[Dori Shafrir]

And yet people still drive drunk. It's very strange.

[Elise Hu]

No excuses. No excuses.

[Dori Shafrir]

No excuses. Well, should we introduce our guest?

[Elise Hu]

Yes.

[Dori Shafrir]

Vanessa writes long form articles on pop culture, youth movements and investigatory topics. Some of her articles are weighty and some not at all. She's also the author of Blurred Lines, Rethinking Sex, Power and Consent on Campus, a book that answers many of the questions about sexual consent in national debate. She's a contributing writer at the New York Times Magazine and Vanity Fair. And she also co founded Campside Media, a podcast company devoted to narrative non fiction storytelling. And we talked about her new podcast. So your parents are old and it's a really interesting show that I think, like we said at the beginning, is really relevant for a lot of people around our age who are kind of dealing with their parents getting older and a lot of them have kids and you know, it's the sandwich generation. And so she talks a lot about what it's been like now taking care of her mom. Yeah, yeah, it's a, it's a really interesting conversation. Before we get to Vanessa, just a reminder that you can Visit our website forever35podcast.com. We have links there to everything we mentioned on the show. We are on Instagram @forever35podcast. Our patreon is at patreon.com forever35. You can shop our favorite products at Shopmy Us forever35. Sign up for our newsletter at forever35podcast.com Newsletter and call or text us at 781-591-0390. Email us at forever35podcastmail.com and we will be right back with Vanessa.

[Elise Hu]

We'll be right back.

[Dori Shafrir]

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[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Thank you so much for having me on. Although I am nowhere near that age anymore.

[Dori Shafrir]

I mean, I'm getting farther and farther away from that age every single day.

[Elise Hu]

So we all are.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

That's the point. Now that we can get the perfect plastic surgery that's $300,000 to make our face look perpetually 35. Nobody will know.

[Dori Shafrir]

Several people sent us that. New York that recent New York magazine article on Staying Forever 35, which we had nothing to do with.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

For the record, I know you guys could bring a trademark case or something and be like, that. Plastic surgery is our invention.

[Dori Shafrir]

Yes, exactly.

[Elise Hu]

So how do you two know each other? Y' all like go way back or.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

We're like media world. New York City Media world before she moved out to la.

[Elise Hu]

Got it, Got it.

[Dori Shafrir]

I have a very like, distinct memory of a night on the Lower east side, I think, when I was working at Gawker. I mean, so this was like almost 20 years ago.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Yeah.

[Dori Shafrir]

And you were there. It was just like a bunch of people there. It was a time and a second floor bar maybe. Yes. Does that sound right? Yeah, it does sound right.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Yeah.

[Dori Shafrir]

It's like vaguely a blur but I'm like Vanessa was definitely there. Yeah.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

I don't have great timing in general, which is why I'm like now in my 50s with a 8 year old son. But I do have to say that I got into journalism and magazines like right before the door closed, you know, like late 90s. And then you guys all showed up and it was like, oh no, now if I want to do this, I have to be in a sweatshop and blog all day. Little did we know that it was going to turn into 150 tweets a day, plus a podcast, plus a video thing, plus a tick tock, blah blah blah. That was just like the beginning of the sweatshop. It was all very genteel.

[Dori Shafrir]

Oh totally. Like yeah. Now the thought of just writing like three posts a day.

[Elise Hu]

And I'm sure.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

You quaint complained about it so much back then and little did you know.

[Dori Shafrir]

But anyway we, on a totally different note, we do like to start off by asking our guests about any self care practice that they have. So is there something that you personally do that you would consider self care?

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

I know I was thinking about coming on this show and how my life is so incredibly chaotic and I take like no time quote unquote for myself. So what exactly would I proffer? I mean I do yoga. That is the one thing where I'm like, I will do this like hour every, you know, three or four times a week. That is the thing I do. But I feel that the skin products and all of that, it just never really worked for me. Like I am blessed with having, you know, genetically relatively good skin and just being very dark skinned, which frankly just is a good thing to be. And not a lot of wrinkles are coming. So I'm not like a serum lover, I have to be honest.

[Elise Hu]

That's okay. I have a very limited routine myself if I, if I have one at all. Yesterday I showed up at soccer and my hair was down at my. Not, not soccer for me, soccer for a kid. And this dad was like, did you get your hair done or get your hair cut? And I'm like, no man, I just washed it. Well, from one end of the age spectrum to the other. Let's talk a little bit about your new show that's coming out. It's called so your parents are old.

[Dori Shafrir]

That's Right.

[Elise Hu]

And it's about a different kind of chaos. It's about the chaos of dealing with aging parents. What was the inspiration for this show? How are your parents doing?

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

I mean, my life. Yeah, no, my parents are not well. My dad passed away, so he's definitely not well. And my mom is very ill and in her apartment in New York City. And as her dutiful only daughter, I am with no family closer than Chicago. I am the producer of her life in addition to the podcast. So, yeah, it's, it's a, it's an interesting experience when you thought things could, you know, that's like that phrase of like, you think things can't get worse. Of course, they always can. And things can always get more chaotic. Like almost calling it the third shift, where the first shift is maybe your kids, the second is work, or maybe it's even reversed. And then in, in your, like, you know, your feeling of what, what's most important. And then the third is like taking care of your parents. It's just another eight hour a day.

[Elise Hu]

What are the kind of vagaries of it, like the tedium of it that made you want to highlight this experience and have conversations with other people about it?

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Do you guys have experience with this?

[Elise Hu]

Not yet. My parents are far away. First of all, they went to Taipei in the middle of COVID And then my mom is 69 and my dad is 81, so they are 12 years apart. So my dad is starting to get dementia and asking a lot of the same questions over and over. And my mom is like exhausted having to deal with it. So I guess it's my mom who's experiencing what it's like to kind of have somebody who's forgetting.

[Dori Shafrir]

Right.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

I mean, being that far away is both a blessing and a curse in some ways. Like as it, you know, as it evolves, you're going to want to be closer, but you're not going to be closer, which means that you can't take on a lot of the day to day responsibilities. And in some ways that's sort of awesome. You know, I mean, obviously there's lots of siblings out there where one is, you know, burdened with a lot of the care. And it's usually the person who's closer and it's usually the, the girl. Right. And then the other one is like living their best life someplace across the country. I mean, the great thing about having siblings is usually one person does the care and the other person does the finances. Right, right. And when you're an only child, there's really nobody, like, nobody else who you can bring into this situation, because, you know, there's nobody unless I hired. And even if you're hiring, I'm not sure how this goes down. There are women who, who are geriatric care managers. They're mostly women in New York city. They're like 250 an hour. And they'll basically, they. They work mostly for people whose families are really far away for, like, rich biddies on the Upper east side and their kids are far away. And, you know, they'll stock your refrigerator, they'll get your medications, they'll go with you to the doctor's appointment, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But that seems like sort of an extraordinary situation, and that's very, very, very rare. One of the greatest tips somebody gave to me is when my mom started having memory loss was she probably never opened online banking, which she had indeed never done because of the man and the man stealing your identity and whatever else that old people are always afraid of. But she, you know, I just opened online banking for her and how to go to my phone. So a lot of the authentication and stuff like that goes to my phone now.

[Elise Hu]

Okay.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

But there's still more complicated stuff where you need to call, right? You need the person to be present. Yeah, yeah. It's fully like, suddenly I work at the dmv. And then in addition to that, it's the very intense emotional care of parenting your parent.

[Elise Hu]

And you've had a lot of conversations with other folks who are going through this in this stage of their life, I imagine. Has anything struck you? Yeah. From all of these conversations?

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Yeah. I mean, my. The reason I created the podcast is because there's really nobody who's talking about this. Like, it's almost a taboo subject in some ways. I mean, you'll find as you guys get a little bit older that like, I do now occasionally go to dinner with my friends and it's like, whose parent is dying? My knees hurt. You know, 401k. And you're like, wow, we have turned into such squares because we never would have had this, like, be the dinner time conversation before. But I mean, I'm interviewing a lot of celebrities. So the concept is that it's, you know, a show for people who are going through this, but people who are not like, Hallmark card style folks where they want, like, content that's a bit edgier. So we have like, Lewis Black and a bunch of like, young comedians and people who are just like, you know, can you believe it? Like these. Everybody's living to, like, 104 years old, demented out of their minds. We figured out how to, you know, make people's bodies last longer, for sure. But then there's like, 10 years of them not knowing what their name is.

[Elise Hu]

I. I have. I have seen the u. S. Senate.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Yeah. I mean, for sure there should be an upper age limit. Like, there's no question. And the idea that, like, the framers wouldn't want that. They didn't even know anybody was gonna live, like, beyond 50. Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

People died at 45 or something, right.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Biden, I think, having now spent a lot of time around a lot of old people, including my parents, had Parkinson's. Like, it's just so clear when you look at the way he shuffles and you look at the way his voice was receding, Just the way his, like, you know, mask of his face, like, masking, you know, is sort of what.

[Elise Hu]

They call with his mouth agape when it was hanging kind of open during the debate.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Exactly. And that doesn't mean that he was, like, fully demented. He might have had, like, a little bit of a brain problem, but his body was giving out and it was only going one way. The idea they thought this guy could go for four more years was the tragedy.

[Dori Shafrir]

Has the podcast kind of brought you any sort of comfort in talking to other people going through this, or has it just sort of, like, reaffirmed how difficult this all is?

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

I think it's fun to talk to people who are going through it because I'm so alone in it, because, again, I have no siblings and, like, nobody wants to talk to you about it unless they're in, you know, the middle of it. It's almost like infertility or something where it's like you're so obsessed with it when it's happening, and then when it's over, you're like, whatever, like, what was that bad? I don't even know. Like. Like, I have this kid now and, like, I'm moving on, you know, or I don't have this kid. I adopted a kid, or whatever it is, you're not like, let me jam out with you about, like, early, you know, blood tests. The interesting thing is that when it's a comedian and we're just sort of riffing on all the ridiculousness of old people who are, like, toddlers in a different form. I love that the few people I've had on who are more inspirational style folks, it's almost like makes me want to cry because I feel, like, very seen by them. But it's really done a number, I would say, on my, the way that I perceive my friendships, you know, I mean, a lot of things that I've thought about for my own life. Well, because when you're, you know, like a creative class, professional women, as we all are, our friendships are kind of the most important thing. Right. And there's, there's ones, there's people you lose. There's people where you're like, okay, we talk all the time now. We talk a couple times a year now. We've decided we're just gonna only see each other, maybe at our funerals, I guess, but like, it's over. We're fine. Life happening and never seeing each other again. But, you know, the core group of people that you are friends with for 20, 30 years, you just assume that they are gonna be with you no matter how sick and old you get. And then you realize they're not either because they're not emotionally equipped because they think. I mean, I've had people say to me, I saw your mom. It wasn't her. It wasn't her there. It's, she's not, she's not there anymore.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

And I was like, okay, first of all, like, do you know who you're saying that to? Like, I'm her daughter, you know?

[Elise Hu]

Right.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

But also, like, they're going, they're old and have weird, horrible things happening too. They have like, health problems. They have some spouses who are sick. Like, they. There people just over 80 years old are mired in all sorts of issues. And you just, I think, realize that family takes care of family. That's just the truth. Like when people get sick, that's who actually calls and sticks around. And you just realize that though those like, bonds are the bonds that matter in sickness, you know.

[Dori Shafrir]

So we're just going to take a short break and we will be right back.

[Elise Hu]

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[Dori Shafrir]

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[Elise Hu]

Yep, this happens a lot in my house.

[Dori Shafrir]

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[Elise Hu]

Yay.

[Dori Shafrir]

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[Elise Hu]

How are you thinking about the decision of where your mom lives next? Because right now she's living on her own right in an apartment and on the 26th floor or something. Okay, but she is suffering from Alzheimer's.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Okay, but she's not living on her own. She has an A there, but. Yes, right, right.

[Elise Hu]

But not with you.

[Dori Shafrir]

Right.

[Elise Hu]

She's not living with family, thank God.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Yeah, no, she cannot live with me. Like, I mean.

[Elise Hu]

That'S not gonna happen. Okay, so then what's next? Do you feel that she can stay there as her condition progresses or what? How are you thinking about all this?

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Okay, that's, you know, that is the, you know, $25 million question. Like, how. What do you do? So I think you guys probably know this, but for anybody who's listening to this, who doesn't know this, Medicare does not pay for any sort of assisted living. So retirement home, memory care, you know, basically, if you've never, like, gone to one of these places, essentially, there's, you know, nice places, not nice places, but a lot of them are staged. So you move in, you're all right. You may be, like, a little weird, but you're fine. And you can live in an apartment. And then, oh, my God, there's another building on this property, and that's where you go where you're more messed up. Right. And then eventually, when you really, like, have to be locked in and you can't do anything for yourself, they put you in a memory care or they put you in a nursing home, right? Which is, like, when you really need help. Medicaid, which is for people who are like a poverty level, you know, Basically, you have $30,000 to your name. Medicaid does pay only for nursing homes. And I mean, different. I think it goes state by state. But in New York State, I believe it's 40 patients to one. Aid is what's legally allowed in a Medicaid nursing home. So basically, what you're looking at is, like, bankrupting yourself. Like, you're. If you're middle class, which my mom is, you know, you're looking at her spending all the money that she has to move into one of these places, because the crazy thing about having dementia is you also might need some to hire another aide to be your personal aid within the facility. So not only are you spending, you know, whatever, 15 to 30 thousand dollars a month, month on the facility, I'm making up 30. I don't actually know. I haven't been to any of these places. To be clear. I will explain why. But, like, the, you know, let's call it 15. I mean, I think 15 is a very normal number in a lot of the country, sure. But then you also need to spend, let's call it, you know, seven, eight, something like that, for a personal aid also. So basically, I think it might be more expensive than having my mom at home. I think I'm still caught in the fact that my mom said to me, never take me out of this apartment.

[Elise Hu]

Okay.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Which, you know, I've moved past that emotionally in some ways because I understand from talking to people that a lot of people's parents say that. And you can't like let that rule your life. You can't. You know, I'm a highly functioning person. So for me to produce my mom's life, I'm just like, I produce a podcast, I produce two weekly podcasts. I, you know, do I write, I do this. I have two kids. Like, I can produce her life, right? Like, I have AIDS that I really like and I really, really trust and they do all the heavy lifting and then I'm there just like sort of running the household. But there's a lot of other people who aren't like that. And it's for sure running me into the ground, like, yeah.

[Elise Hu]

Cause I was gonna say, what if you are a family that doesn't have the $15,000 a month or whatever it is that we're estimating for memory care?

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

And well, you do what a lot of people do, which is you bankrupt your loved one loved parent and give these lawyers who are getting insanely rich off of this, the money to basically move everything out of your parents name. And you move it maybe into a trust or whatever. And then, you know, what a lot of people are doing is you keep some money. Let's say you keep a hundred thousand dollars or whatever, you move your parent into a facility and then you say, you know, after six months, no more money. You got to, we got to go to Medicaid for this. And in what I understand to be quite a few cases, the facility's like, fine, whatever. So then you've gotten your person in. But again, that has to be nursing care. It can't be like, it's a fun apartment on a golf course. Like there. Nobody's paying for that. Zero people are paying for that. So no, this is like, it's demographically the problem of our age. And it's just a matter of people waking up and learning about it and then experiencing it. And it sucks so hard that I, I feel like a little bit like the canary in the coal mine where I'm just like, does everybody else not realize what's happening?

[Elise Hu]

The boomers were a giant generation. That's why they're called boomers.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Exactly. They're a giant generation. And we're a smaller, you know, Gen X is a smaller generation and we're like basically taking care of them or the millennials are taking care of them. And you know, the other interesting thing is a lot of those people are actually really wealthy and they have really big houses. Right. The boomers have like something like over half the house.

[Dori Shafrir]

Crazy.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Right? You know, and they just don't want to move out of them because they don't want to pay the taxes. They're like, I want to die in here so my kid can inherit it without paying these inheritance tax. Just like whatever. So that's the other part of it, which is like, there's people who are going to be very motivated to figure this out because you don't want your parent to spend what you thought was going to be your money when they died. It's not like uplifting. I'm sorry. No, of course it is true.

[Dori Shafrir]

What do you, I mean, besides the sort of Medicaid issue and the cost of long term care, I guess. What, what do you think people should know who are kind of embarking on this generational journey age of life, right?

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Yeah. I mean, I think what they should know is just like you are sort of on your own and you have to just figure it out. And if you think it might be your problem, it's your problem. Like if your parent is starting to act weird and you know, leaving the stove on or getting lost, like driving someplace and getting lost is like a real red flag. Right. Someplace I've always gone before. You know, if there's the, the thing people always say is if you look in the refrigerator and there's some food in there that's going bad and this person was like really meticulous or like there's sort of.

[Dori Shafrir]

I couldn't do that with my parents because they have like Costco syrup in their fridge from like 2015. So that would not be a good test for them.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Very true. Are the boomers. I are crazy hoarders. You know, that's just the truth. I don't know why. What are they so afraid of? But they have all the money, all the houses and all the syrup. Like what? You know, Anyway, the most important thing to know is if your parents acting weird, don't just be annoyed and do what I did, which is just be like, I'm so annoyed by this, I'm going to ignore it and sort of ignore you and Be like, okay, this could actually be signs of something worse. And it's like the disease talking and not the person. And the best thing for old people, particularly if they're, like, widowed, is just companionship. And, you know, there's. I think maybe Jancy Dunn or somebody in the Times talked about the eight minute phone call versus, like, the three and a half minute phone call, which is just like, hi. Hi, how are you? I'm good. Blah, blah, blah. What are your kids doing? The weather. Bye. Like, the eight minute phone call, you have to say a few things, like, try to just do that. I mean, I sometimes schedule calling my mom. Like, as insane as that is. I just, like, put it on my Google calendar. I'm just like, I have to do it at this moment. A lot of people don't get along with their parents. That's the other part is like, you, right?

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Yeah. What if you're. I really don't know what you do because they need your help. And there's so many old people out there without anybody to help them at all. And it's really heartbreaking. Like, if they don't have family, it's really heartbreaking. So you're gonna have to, like, I don't know, maybe you're just gonna have to suck it up in some ways. I mean, if it's. If it's obviously, if it's like an estrangement over sexual abuse or things that are so traumatic, no way, you know?

[Dori Shafrir]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Maybe there's another family member you can reach out to and be like, you know, I don't talk to my mom, but this is what I've been hearing is happening from cousin whoever, and, like, what is, can you help me make a plan or. I don't know. I don't know what you do, because that's messed up, you know?

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. Okay. We have spent a lot of this conversation on the new podcast and the chaos of taking care of aging parents, but you have been a decorated magazine journalist, whatever that is, podcaster turned now production company co founder. So in the time that you are not working this third shift of taking care of your aging parent, we were just kind of curious what you have found fascinating lately. Like, who are you curious about what's interesting to you these days? What are kind of the questions that are constantly swirling at the back of your mind? Besides, what happens when AI overtakes us?

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Oh, my God. Yeah. Well, I think, you know, I'm interested in the idea of how you would make something that looks like the Cut but could be for women in their, like, 40s and 50s, the idea of, like, what is the next. How can you get in touch with people that. Not through memoir. How can you get in touch with older women through, like, stories they really want to hear? I'm interested in that. I'm interested in, like, the. How do you cover. How do you create a magazine that has glamour in it at a time when, you know, I'm very anti maga at a time when there's not a lot of glamour going on, except for in this group of people that, you know, I find somewhat immoral. So, like, how would you cover those people? You know, do you do that? As I've made my career really covering a lot of sort of the 1% and they're like, foibles. That's generally been my beat. And what do you do when you can't really meet these people where they are? But I don't really love de platforming either. So how can you write things about them that feel really true? They can't just all be vicious, you.

[Elise Hu]

Know, Is there anything that's particularly notable or different about this era's 1% versus the 1% of the 90s or the 1% of the 80s?

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Is there something much richer? Right. They've got much more. I mean, I think there's the idea that now, like, you really need $20 million to be considered, like, really high net worth, to really be able to roll, like, with those. With that group. I mean, it's, you know, the. Everybody is sort of wanting a private jet or the people who have a private jet. I mean, so why the Epstein story works so well, right? This idea, like, in terms of like, just. Just grabs people's consciousness, is this idea that there's this, you know, band at the top of society where morality is askew and everybody sort of knows each other. It doesn't really matter if you're Democrat or Republican because all you love is sex and money. And I do think that the pursuit of, like, the.

[Elise Hu]

The.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

The objects are more expensive, the art's more expensive, you know, the homes are more expensive.

[Dori Shafrir]

Vanessa, when we were scheduled to talk to you, I was rereading some of your old pieces that were so iconic and, like, influential to me as a journalist. Like, your Power Girls piece was like. I mean, if you haven't. And tell folks what that's about. Yeah, we will link to it. It was about a group of young publicists in New York City in the late 90s. And I don't know. Vanessa, do you want to say Anything else about it?

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Yeah, it was. You know, when I got out of college, I got a job at New York Magazine because that's the thing you could just do. You could just show up. I never had. I didn't do any journalism, never worked in a newspaper, really didn't write much. And they were just like, boom, here's a job that's so different than even.

[Elise Hu]

When my graduating year in 2004. Because in 2004, it was like, like the whole.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

No, you really had to be in there in the 90s for sure. And this was about. So one of the things I did in my job as an assistant is I covered parties. Like, fancy, fancy parties. And at that point, they would just let you in. There was no velvet rope, like, stand behind it, take a photo, whatever. No, you were just inside the party with your notebook. And I was like, oh, my God, who are these people at the door? Oh, they're publicists. I mean, these are the things you think when you're really young. Like, who are the people who are in control? And I started to report it on them. And they had done, like, a very clueless style thing of making a random, like, woman that they knew into an IT girl and getting Vogue to write about her highlights and blah, blah, blah, blah. And then she ended up having an affair with an heiress, an heiress's husband.

[Dori Shafrir]

Husband.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

And heiress still was a better story.

[Elise Hu]

If it was an heiress, I would.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Have been like, yes, exactly. And heiress, husband. And then they did not like that. So then things, like, sort of devolved from there. So that was like the through line of that story. But they said a lot of things they probably shouldn't have said. And the great thing about that story is just like, the day it came out, they all sent me, like, cookies and flowers. And then as they realized that they were sort of being made fun of, they were like, what? I was like, you guys like this when you first read it, you know, because that's really. To me, that's the standard of, like, a great piece of writing. If the readers can be in on it and the subjects are just like, what? It was just what I said. Like, that is who I am. Then you really, like, you know.

[Elise Hu]

Yes.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Got into the truth.

[Elise Hu]

Yes. Anyway, we're so glad that you had those opportunities. Yeah.

[Dori Shafrir]

And it was. I mean, it was very fun for me to, like, revisit that piece and your Britney Spears Rolling Stone piece.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

But thank you.

[Dori Shafrir]

Did make me kind of sad. Right. Like, those pieces aren't being written anymore, but they're sort of being done in podcasting. Question mark. So, yeah, Wondering if you could talk a little bit about your shift to starting Campside Media. Are there similarities to how you go about finding stories for Campside as in terms of.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Yeah, I mean, we, you know, I started Campside with three guys. Don't start a company with three guys. That is a very weird thing that I did. But two of whom were also mid career magazine writers and we basically pitched a bunch of magazine stories that we couldn't get, you know, funding from at that point. And I did like the downfall of Victoria's secretary. You know, they one guy did a thing about a bank robber. There's a lot of like wrongful conviction stories that we do. So we do like narrative podcasts, like serial investigative podcasts, which are also now sort of on the way out, which is very sad.

[Elise Hu]

Too expensive.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Too expensive. I gotta get back in magazines. I mean, that's crazy. But I think that, you know, for me as a writer, I really emulated like the style of like a Tom Wolf. Even like, like sort of Charles Bukowski ask. Like really visceral, you know, really present style and that you can't do in, in podcasting. Because the problem. Right. Casting to be totally frank, is like, everybody has to like you. You know, in the audio visual medium, you can't be a writer who is really angry and really like vituperative. You just can't. Who would listen to that? I mean, other than like an Alex Jones or something.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. The economics don't reward that.

[Dori Shafrir]

The incentives are interesting.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Yeah. It's an I voice and it's a subject voice, but it has to be a questing, curious, likable narrator.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

You know.

[Dori Shafrir]

Right.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

And so in that way, I think it's quite different. And the subject, like, you know, I wrote as, as you said, like this big piece about Britney Spears, which in which I said a bunch of things I probably like really shouldn't have said about Britney Spears because then we found out that she was, you know, very mentally decayed. And I felt like such an asshole. But, you know, part of the point of that back then was like, look at how, you know, crazy our culture is that we are running after this woman who's shaving her head and doing all of these things.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. Yeah. Before we let you go, who are you enjoying reading? Who's doing it?

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Well, these days? I mean, I. I'm reading a lot of books for. For my, you know, podcast, basically. So I read a book by Jill Belofsky. I want to say her Name is about her mom who died during COVID I read a book, actually, by the publisher, McSweeney's Amanda Uhl. Oh, my God. Ulay.

[Elise Hu]

Okay.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

U h, L e called Destroy this House about her parents who were crazy hoarders.

[Elise Hu]

It is on my Kindle. I've heard so much great stuff about it.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

We read it already, Sting. I have read it. Yeah.

[Dori Shafrir]

Okay.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

And so, you know, I love. I feel like the Wild is a great book, but the memoirs that are a bit more about complicated relationships with people's moms really speak to me.

[Elise Hu]

Okay. All right, Vanessa, thank you so much for being so open with us, and I really enjoyed. I think we both really enjoyed just getting to talk to catch up with you.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

So nice to talk to you, too. I have to hear about all your traumatic experiences. Some other time.

[Elise Hu]

Yes.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Your family trauma.

[Dori Shafrir]

Where can our listeners find you and.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Find the show so you can go to. So your parents are old. On any podcast player, you could just put parents are old in and look for a yellow icon. I also make a weekly show called Infamous, if you're interested in pop culture, which goes through in a sort of narrative way, like Justin Bieber or what really happened on the Rust set with Alec Bald, when a lot of more recent sort of pop culture scandals.

[Dori Shafrir]

Okay, amazing. Thank you so much. This is you. Like I said, that was a really, I think, a really important conversation that we had with Vanessa. So last week, I kind of got ahead of myself because I know that our episode was airing kind of the week of my parent visit, but we're recording this and it hasn't actually happened yet.

[Elise Hu]

So you can't reflect on your intention?

[Dori Shafrir]

I can't. I can't really reflect on my intention. So I'm just going to keep my intention from last week. Okay. Okay.

[Elise Hu]

And then we will wish that it all goes smoothly, just as we did last week.

[Dori Shafrir]

What about you?

[Elise Hu]

So my intention last week was movement and strength to go along with Cadence Debuss, our guest on the show. And if you haven't heard that episode, please go back and listen to it. She's fantastic. And I have been doing pretty well. Like, I made myself go and run and. Which I usually don't do. I. I like to run socially. And my running buddy has been out of town, actually, for a race. She went to go run a half marathon, but I actually went and exercised by myself. I also took a few Pilates classes inspired by Cadence. I went and took some Pilates classes, and it felt really good. Especially like. Like on mornings where I just didn't want to do anything at all. Like, I really just wanted to sort of laze around. I made myself do it and then I felt so much better after. And I know that it's like obvious but, but in the moment that you don't want to do something, you really just don't. And so there is, there was something just to like having this intention out there and doing it. So anyway, my intention this week, I guess just to go in line with some of the stuff that we talked about with on our casual chat, just about like the kids being very programmed in because they're playing sports is just to have some like unplanned, unstructured time as a family. Just like that, not doing anything or not having to be somewhere. So unstructured family time is going to be mine.

[Dori Shafrir]

Love that. All right, well, everybody, thank you so much for listening. Forever 35 is hosted and produced by me, Dory Shafrier and Elise Hu and produced and edited by Sam Hunio. Sammy Reed is our project manager and our network partners, acast. Thanks everyone for listening.

[Elise Hu]

Talk to you next time.

[Dori Shafrir]

Bye.

[Elise Hu]

Sometimes the best reminder that things will be all right is hearing a fresh perspective from experts who've seen it all and have the wisdom to prove it. Like I learned about extreme anchors in negotiation from the FBI negotiator Chris Voss's class on Masterclass and it really changed my life. I think about it all the time. And if you're not into that, you can also learn how to eat more ethically and sustainably. With Michael Pollan, you can build habits that stick with atomic habits, author James Clear and take care of your gut, brain, skin and more with science based tips from leading experts. The classes really make a difference. Three out of four surveyed members feel inspired every time they watch Masterclass. I'm definitely in that majority. And with Masterclass you can learn from the best to become your best. With plans starting at $10 a month billed annually, you get unlimited access to more than 200 classes taught by the world's best leaders, writers, chefs and more. With Masterclass, you get thousands of bite sized lessons across 13 categories that can fit into even the busiest of schedules. Right now, our listeners get an additional 15 off any annual [e-mail] forever35. That's 15% [e-mail] forever35 masterclass.com forever35.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Morning Zoe. Got donuts. Jeff Bridges why are you still living above our garage? Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you teach me so Dana oh no I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system. Wow impression. Impressive. Let me try T mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network. Nice Jeffrey, you heard them. T mobile is the best place to.

[Elise Hu]

Get the new iPhone 17 Pro on.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Us with eligible traded in any condition. So what are we having for lunch? Dude my work here is done.

[Elise Hu]

The 24 month credit is on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

And 35 device connection charge credit sending.

[Elise Hu]

Balance due if you pay off for.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Earlier cancel Finance Agreement I iPhone 17.

[Elise Hu]

Pro 256 gigs $1,099.99 and new line minimum 100 plus a month plan with.

[Vanessa Grigoriadis]

Auto pay plus taxes and fees required Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Oaklove Speed Test Intelligence Data 1x2025 Visit T mobile.com.