Episode 376: Women, Texting, Talking with Kate Baer

Summary

Podcast Summary: Forever35, Episode 376

Title: Women, Texting, Talking with Kate Baer
Date: November 3, 2025
Hosts: Doree Shafrir & Elise Hu
Guest: Kate Baer (Author & Poet)

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Episode Overview

In this engaging and heartfelt episode, Doree and Elise welcome poet and bestselling author Kate Baer back to the podcast to discuss her new poetry collection, How About Now. The conversation weaves together personal anecdotes on sportsmanship, self-care practices, the sustaining power of female friendships, the evolving landscape of social media, and Kate's creative process. The hosts and guest share a genuine, often humorous, and always self-aware look at adulthood, change, and what it means to support one another.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Doree’s Tennis Team Adventure (02:17–16:37)

• Tournament Recap: Doree shares a detailed play-by-play of her rec tennis team's journey to the national championships in Scottsdale, including strategy, team dynamics, and high-stakes drama.
• Sportsmanship & Strategy:
  • Doree prioritized fairness and rest for her team, promising each player at least one match (03:14).
  • She meticulously researched opponents, using a spreadsheet to track players and "stacking" strategies (03:57).
• Dramatic Match & Unexpected Victory:
  • Doree recalls a pivotal, suspenseful match involving a competitor's injury, leading to her own win by default and her team advancing (07:00–11:24).
  • “I was down 1:5 in the second set... I started to feel a little bit better. I was like, okay, I can rally…” – Doree (07:00)
• Aftermath & Reflections:
  • Describes awkward interactions with the other team post-match and muses on the randomness and emotional complexity of winning that way (13:07–14:44).
  • Elise draws a parallel to a recent Wimbledon outcome, highlighting the unpredictability of sports (13:30).

2. Introducing Kate Baer (19:33–20:14)

• Kate’s Return: The hosts express excitement about reconnecting with Kate and introduce her latest poetry collection, How About Now.
• Life Updates: Kate reflects on a period of huge personal and world change, joking, “Every time I’ve ever put out a book... it’s been unprecedented times. At a certain point we can stop saying that.” (19:57)
• Midlife Crisis: Kate candidly shares experiencing health issues and existential anxiety at 38, which inspired her book (21:06).

3. Self-Care in Practice (22:12–24:38)

• Kate’s Routine:
  • Daily long walks—“My self-care is just leaving my family and going for a walk.” (22:56)
  • Prefers walking alone: “I want to be completely alone by myself so I can like, feel my… body, like feel myself away from everything.” (23:17)
  • Mixes upbeat music, silence, and voice messages from friends.
• Friendship Voice Notes:
  • Evangelizes for the Marco Polo app; frequent, casual voice memos nurture deeper, more intimate relationships (25:02).
  • “It creates an intimacy that’s like a marriage. And I need those kind of relationships in my life.” – Kate (25:22)

4. Poetry Reading: "Women Texting, Talking" (27:08–27:43)

• Kate reads her poem "Women Talking," which exemplifies the day-to-day support and humor shared with friends via group texts.
• “We all write back, man do I love frogs, and go about our days.” – Kate (27:43)
• Elise celebrates the poem’s nod to real friends: “And you get to name check some of your friends too.” (27:46)

5. Friendship as Lifeline (29:59–32:08)

• Meaning of Close Friendships:
  • “I could never stay married, I could never raise my children without friends.” – Kate (30:25)
  • Historicizes and normalizes women’s communal support structures, from Amish porches to modern group chats.
• On Marriages and Expectations:
  • “To put so much pressure on this one other person to fulfill all your emotional needs is nuts.” – Kate (31:44)

6. Instagram, Social Media, & Creative Work (32:08–35:20)

• Social Media Evolution:
  • Discusses how platforms, especially Instagram, have become more commercial and algorithm-driven, complicating authentic engagement and book promotion.
  • “Now I’m pushing my book cart down a kind of empty street…” – Kate (33:01)
• Concerns:
  • Expresses unease about the future of online spaces: “Our literacy rates are dropping... It’s such the wild west of the Internet.” (34:22–35:20)

7. The Creative Process and Theming in How About Now (36:02–37:23)

• Personal Growth: This book differs from earlier collections due to changes in age and perspective.
• Process: Relies on ongoing notetaking, structured work blocks, and drawing deeply from real life.
• Inspiration: Finds solace and material in stories by and about women, in both literature and friendships.

8. Poetry Reading: "A Self Help Guru on Instagram Tries to Save My Life" (39:59–40:42)

• Kate shares a poem skewering online wellness trends and shallow advice.
• “I will not be baptized in a Bogo wellness workshop free to podcast subscribers...” – Kate (40:00)
• Doree: “I love that so much. And so fancy shade.” (40:43)

9. The Country Life (41:42–43:18)

• Kate discusses pros and cons of moving to the country: loving the privacy and landscape, challenged by some local politics and missing urban conveniences.

10. Favorite Lines and Poems (43:31–44:47)

• Kate’s favorite piece: “You used to text me for nudes but now it’s just for information. For our taxes.” (43:47)
• On writing: “I write so much by ear… when all the chord notes come together, that feels really good.” (44:12)

11. Remaking the World & Taking Action (44:56–48:58)

• Excerpt from “Watershed” prompts Elise’s question: “What are we waiting for? What can we do to remake the world in a softer, kinder image?” (44:56)
• Kate answers:
  • The danger of waiting for others to change things—politically or personally.
  • “I’m the one that can make the change... If you feel bad about something, taking one action step to help somebody else will immediately make you feel better about everything.” – Kate (47:01)
  • Advocates focusing on real-world engagement over online solutions.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On friendship and emotional labor (30:25):
  “I could never stay married, I could never raise my children without friends. I don’t think you could go to many corners of the world and not find groups of women gathered talking together. …This is how we’ve always survived.”
• On self-care clichés (22:12):
  "I feel like people have been telling me my whole life that if I just went for a walk... But I started to go on these daily walks, and I was like, oh, this does help." – Kate
• On Instagram burnout (33:01):
  “Now I’m pushing my book cart down a kind of empty street because everyone’s over on reels…”
• On waiting for someone else to act (47:01):
  “If you feel bad about something, taking one action step to help somebody else will immediately make you feel better about everything.” – Kate (attributed to Nora McInerny)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Doree’s Tennis Team Saga: 02:17–16:37
• Kate Baer Introduction/Updates: 19:33–20:14
• Self-Care Practices: 22:12–24:38
• On Friendship via Voice Notes: 25:02–27:08
• Poetry Reading—Women Texting: 27:08–27:43
• Meaning of Friendships: 29:59–32:08
• Instagram/Social Media Overview: 32:08–35:20
• Creative Process: 36:02–37:23
• Poetry Reading—Self Help Guru: 39:59–40:42
• Rural Life Reflection: 41:42–43:18
• Favorite Works Discussion: 43:31–44:47
• Remaking the World/Political Reflection: 44:56–48:58

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Episode Tone & Style

Throughout, the conversation is candid, funny, and alive with mutual support and gentle ribbing. The tone blends vulnerability with humor, always circling back to the importance of community, self-reflection, and showing up in the real (not just virtual) world.

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Recommended for listeners interested in:

• Poetry and writing
• Female friendship
• Navigating adult life and midlife
• Sports and teamwork as metaphor
• Social media’s impact on creativity and connection
• Resilience, humor, and self-awareness in modern life

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Closing:
Kate’s book How About Now is out now. Find her on most platforms @katejbaer. This episode is a love letter to the ways women support each other, survive change, and still make time for the healing magic of a long walk and a good group text.

Transcript

[Marc Maron]

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[Elise Hu]

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[Dory Shafrier]

Hello and welcome to Forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Dory Shafrier.

[Elise Hu]

And I'm Elise Hu. And we're just two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.

[Dory Shafrier]

Welcome to the show. Today we have a guest who has been on before, but not for a.

[Elise Hu]

Few years and not while I have been host.

[Dory Shafrier]

Correct. One of my favorite writers and poets, Kate Bear. Oh, so good to get to talk to her again.

[Elise Hu]

Yes, and her new collection, which is out tomorrow. You can't miss it, y'. All. Um, it's called how about now? And we'll get into it and she'll do some readings from it. And we're all really excited about that. But first, we promised that you would hear more about Dory's recreational tennis team's big trip to the national tournament in Scottsdale, Arizona. So, Dor, take us back to Scottsdale.

[Dory Shafrier]

Oh, my goodness. So this was the national championship. The way it works is that the USTA divides the country into 17 sections. So. So we were representing SoCal. There's also a Nor Cal section, but most, I would say most of the sections except for California, Florida and Texas are multi state.

[Kate Baer]

Okay.

[Elise Hu]

We're just so giant that.

[Dory Shafrier]

We're just so giant that they have to split us into two sections. So we were there representing SoCal. We played four matches in the main flight and and everyone plays four matches randomly selected. So you could get a really tough draw or you could get an easy draw. We had kind of a. A middling draw. Like, we had one, I would say easy match, two tough matches, and then one sort of middle ish match.

[Elise Hu]

How do you decide who plays those matches from your team?

[Dory Shafrier]

Well, Elise, I'm glad you asked. Um, I promised everyone on the team who was coming that if they came to nationals, they would play at least one match. I didn't want anyone to come and not play. So that was sort of baseline. And that also gave me some flexibility. You know, if I was like, oh, this person will only play one match. But I also told people, you'll have at least one match off, like, as a rest, you know, because at sectionals, a few people played every match, and by the end they were, like, so exhausted.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrier]

So I did some, like, extensive research on each of the teams before we went. I had a whole spreadsheet.

[Elise Hu]

Wow.

[Dory Shafrier]

So I, like, knew all the players. I knew their lineups. I knew whether sometimes they, like, switched their lines. Because you play three doubles matches and two singles matches. So sometimes what teams will do is they'll put their weaker team at the top, like line one, which is supposed to be, like, your strongest team, and then they'll put line one at either line two or line three. Because you only have to win three of the lines to win the match. So sometimes people, you know, kind of, like, switch things around. So I. I looked at, like, do they do that? Do they stack? It's called stacking. Um, so I'd really, like, analyzed all of the. All of the teams.

[Elise Hu]

Wow.

[Dory Shafrier]

And based on that, that was, like, how I did my lineups. I also told everyone, like, I'm going to get the lineup for the first day out, like, a couple days in advance, and I'm probably not going to do the lineup for the second day until we're done with the first day. And I, like, know how we've done because, like, you know, I was thinking, well, if we lose both of our matches on the first day, then we're, like, out of contention and it doesn't really matter, and I can just play people completely equally. But if we win both matches, then it's like, okay, well, we might have a shot at going to the semifinals because the top four teams would advance to the semifinals. So strategic. Well, then I have to be more strategic. Yes, exactly. So we did end up winning the matches on the first day. We won the first match three to two. We won three Matches and lost two matches. The second match was against one of the toughest teams in the tournament, a team from Pennsylvania. We had won two of the lines. One of the lines was still playing. We had lost a line, and I was playing singles. Oh, wow.

[Elise Hu]

So it was up to you to win the third.

[Dory Shafrier]

Me or the other doubles line? Correct. Yes.

[Kate Baer]

Yes.

[Dory Shafrier]

So one of the singles lines had won. A doubles line had won, and then a double Zion had lost. And then another doubles line was still playing, and I was still playing.

[Elise Hu]

Right.

[Dory Shafrier]

And I. The first set had been close, but I had lost the first set. And then in the second set, I started feeling like I got a cramp in my stomach. We had eaten at this, like, organic restaurant for lunch.

[Elise Hu]

Too organic.

[Dory Shafrier]

And I think it was, like, too organic. I was like, oh, I should not have had the forbidden rice bowl. That was a mistake.

[Elise Hu]

It's probably forbidden for a reason.

[Dory Shafrier]

I mean, I should have forbidden myself from eating it in retrospect. And, you know, you're not supposed to use your phone during the match, but I was, like, trying to text my teammate, like, can you bring me a banana? You're also not supposed to talk to. To your teammates, like, outside the court. But I was like, I need something. So I took a couple electrolyte pills, and it turned out my text hadn't gone through. Then harrowing. Like, yeah. And then I'm. I was down 1:5 in the second set.

[Elise Hu]

Hmm.

[Dory Shafrier]

So very close to losing. And then I started to feel, like, a little bit better. I was like, okay, I can rally. Like, at least let's not make this one five. Maybe just make this, like, two five. You know what I mean? Like, a little less embarrassing. So I won the next game. So it was 2:5. Then I won another game. So it was 3:5. And I was like, okay, this is, like, this is looking up. You know, Sounds like a comeback. Kind of still kind of precarious, but, like, it's looking up. So we're playing the next game, which, you know, again, she just needed to win one more game, and she was going to win the match because she had won the first match point. Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrier]

Okay. Correct. So we're playing this game, and I can't remember who was serving, but I was down 30, 40. So she was on match point, and I hit the ball. You know, we're in a rally. I hit the ball to her, and she hits it back, and she immediately falls to the ground and screams, and I hit the ball back. I get the point. Then I'm like, are you okay? And she was like, no, I think I broke my ankle. Oh, my gosh. And I'm like, what? Oh, my God. And I'm like, medic. Medic. Traitor. I'm, like, yelling, oh, no. An official comes on the court. The medic comes on the court. She's, like, lying on the ground. Oh. And I'm like, oh, my God. And she's like, the medic comes on. She's like, I think it's broken. So I. First I go over to my teammates watching. I'm like, can someone bring me a banana now that I can talk.

[Elise Hu]

I need.

[Dory Shafrier]

Now that I can talk somehow. Exactly. And then the official came over, and she was like, you can't talk to anyone. And I was like, okay. Sorry. The official was. I actually. I loved the official. She was this, like, older Chinese woman named May, and she was awesome. I. I kept seeing her repeatedly throughout the tournament. She was just like, no nonsense. Like, she was just like, this is what's happening.

[Elise Hu]

Yes. Dory appreciates those people.

[Dory Shafrier]

I really appreciate a rule follower.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrier]

So she came over to me, and she was like, look, here's the deal. After the medic, like, diagnoses her, she has three minutes for a medical timeout, but the whole thing can't take more than 15 minutes, so. And she had, like, started a timer. Like, the second she got on the court, she like, yes.

[Elise Hu]

She is all over it.

[Dory Shafrier]

Y. And then she was like. And then we're gonna see if she can walk over here. I was sitting, like, on the bench. She's like, we're gonna see if she can walk over here. And she has to decide if she can continue the match. I was like, okay. And she was like, but I'm pretty sure her ankle's broken. And I was like, okay. Oh. So the medic is, like, dealing with her. I'm just sitting there, like, kind of staring into space because can't really do anything. And then the woman who had fallen, they kind of, like, lift her up and, like, bring her over, and she couldn't put any weight on it. Like, no weight whatsoever. And then we saw, like, it was starting to swell up. I was like, oh, God. It was like she was in a ton of pain. And the medic was like. And then. Then they said to her, like, can you. Can you continue?

[Elise Hu]

Wow.

[Dory Shafrier]

And she was, like, crying at this point, and she was like, I can't. Like, I can't. I can't even. I can't stand.

[Kate Baer]

Mm.

[Dory Shafrier]

So they got her a wheelchair, and they, like, wheeled her off the court. But when you retire from a match, medical retirement, doesn't matter what the score was, the other person wins.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dory Shafrier]

So I won the match, which meant my team won the match, which carries.

[Elise Hu]

You to the next because then the.

[Dory Shafrier]

Other doubles line, I think they'd been in a tie break and they lost.

[Elise Hu]

So it came down to that match.

[Dory Shafrier]

It did come down to that match. And the other team, understandably, I think was just like, what the fuck just happened? Like, they were all like shell shocked. They weren't like mad at their teammate, but they were just like, what? How? We were one point away, like. And then a part of me was kind of like, I was down 1 5. Like she could have won the next game and just like ended it.

[Elise Hu]

Right.

[Dory Shafrier]

I did come back. Right. You know what I mean?

[Elise Hu]

And also, had she ended it, she could have maybe. I mean, this is sort of like butterfly flaps its wings theory, but maybe her ankle wouldn't have gone too.

[Dory Shafrier]

No, I know, that's what I mean. Like, if she had ended the. If she had been able to end the match when I like at 15 right then, yeah, she wouldn't have broken her ankle. She was also going back that night. She was taking a red eye back to Philly cuz she had to go to a wedding. Like the whole thing was just like, that was why she was playing, because she had to leave. So it was just like, so. It was so crazy. So then this poor team sort of like followed us around for the rest of the weekend. Like they, they were like watching our matches because in our. We won the third match, 5 0. And then our final match was against Texas and Texas needed to sweep us for another team to advance, a different team to advance. But if we just won two lines against Texas, we were going to advance, most likely. So that team is like watching the whole match.

[Elise Hu]

Do you feel like they were rooting against you?

[Dory Shafrier]

Yes. Because then on the, on Sunday, on the semifinal day, they all showed up and one of them told one of my teammates, we did not like, imagine a world where we were not going to advance.

[Elise Hu]

Like, even when I was doing my.

[Dory Shafrier]

Research, I was like, wow, they're a really strong team. Like, they're really strong.

[Elise Hu]

So they didn't have flights home. They were all planning on being there all the way Tuesday night.

[Dory Shafrier]

They were all planning on being there all day Sunday. They had one of their players, she flew in Saturday because they were expecting that they would all play on Sunday.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Kate Baer]

So.

[Dory Shafrier]

And they were like cheering when the other team score. I mean, it Was like, it was so awkward. They were all sort of standing in a line and I felt like they were just like glaring at us and. Oh, geez, I don't know, maybe that was in my head, but it did. It felt very uncomfortable and I was just like, sorry.

[Elise Hu]

Like, yeah, I mean, but like, this happens. Yeah, this happens.

[Dory Shafrier]

I mean, this. That's sports, right?

[Elise Hu]

The reason Jannik Sinner won Wimbledon was because Grigor Dimitrov, who was. Who was beating him in an earlier round, had to retire for a sprained back or something.

[Dory Shafrier]

Yes, that's right.

[Elise Hu]

Dimitrov, if you carried that through, he would have beaten now the world number two and Wimbledon champion Yannick Sinner during this year's Wimbledon. And then the entire path would have been different, but like, he sprained his back the happens and had to withdraw.

[Dory Shafrier]

It's like.

[Elise Hu]

And then Janik Sinner, of course, he was like, I don't want to win this way. But, like, you know, the game has to go on. What are you going to do?

[Dory Shafrier]

Exactly. And, you know, the other thing is too, like, they also could have, like, won another doubles line in our match. They could have won another singles line. They. In a different match, actually, if they had won, if they had won, like, one or two more lines, they would have advanced, but they didn't. So, you know, it sort of like, looks like it all came down to my line, but it, like, kind of didn't. You know what I mean?

[Elise Hu]

Because it's team play. Exactly. Because it's team play. Like Wimbledon, where it's only on your back to continue. You have five other opportunities. Yes.

[Kate Baer]

At the exact same time.

[Dory Shafrier]

Exactly. Now, it's true that she was one point away.

[Elise Hu]

Such drama.

[Dory Shafrier]

But that was so dramatic and so intense and so insane and, like, I didn't feel good about what happened. You know what I mean? Like, when you, like, win like that, it's just like, what the hell? And then one of their players said to. Said to us on Sunday that, you know, maybe this was like God's plan. There was a reason why, like. And I was like, are you saying we're all going to, like, die in a car accident going home on Sunday? Like, what the hell? It's also just like in any sport, but especially in tennis, it's like, it's not over till it's over. Like, truly.

[Elise Hu]

That's right.

[Dory Shafrier]

That's right.

[Elise Hu]

Shout out to Luna's soccer team that came back from being down two to nothing and won three to two last weekend.

[Dory Shafrier]

Oh, my gosh, yes.

[Elise Hu]

Those girls Showed incredible drive.

[Dory Shafrier]

That's amazing. That's amazing. That's mental toughness. Yeah, that's mental toughness. That is really cool. So anyway, lots more to say. I'm working on an essay about it. Maybe that'll be out by the time this airs, but if not, you can read that on court date.substack.com and yeah, it was an amazing experience. The team, like, really bonded and it was just, it was a, you know, they say, oh, it's a once in a lifetime experience. I hope it's not once. But you never know. Getting to nationals is really hard. So it could be once in a lifetime experience. I don't know.

[Elise Hu]

Hopefully not. Now you have. Now you have nationals experience under your belts. So so long as the team stays together, you can rise again.

[Dory Shafrier]

Well, actually, the. The team cannot stay together. The USTA has a rule that if you go to nationals, your team, you can't have more than three people from the old team at the same level because they don't want that to happen. They don't want like you don't want.

[Elise Hu]

You have, like, dominance in recreational tennis.

[Dory Shafrier]

Exactly. Yeah. Got it.

[Elise Hu]

It's like it's more fun for everybody to have a turn.

[Dory Shafrier]

Exactly. Exactly. So anyway, let's introduce our guest.

[Elise Hu]

Okay.

[Dory Shafrier]

Kate Bear is an author and a poet based on the East Coast. Her first book, what Kind of Woman? Was a number one New York Times instant bestseller. And she was on Forever 35 to discuss her book, I hope this finds you well. And she's back to discuss her latest book, How About Now? Which is out tomorrow. Her work has also been published in the New Yorker, Literary Hub and the New York Times. And before we get to Kate, just a reminder, you can Visit our website, Forever 30. We have links there to everything we mentioned on the show. We are on Instagram @forever35podcast. Our patreon is at patreon.com forever35. You can shop our favorite products at Shopmy Us. Forever35. Sign up for our newsletter at forever35podcast.com newsletter and I just want to note also, our newsletter is moving over to Patreon.

[Elise Hu]

Yes.

[Dory Shafrier]

So we will be publishing the newsletter on the free tier on Patreon so you don't have to pay anything for it. It is free as it was before, but we're just trying to sort of centralize everything extra on Patreon. So you can sign up for our [e-mail] forever35 and you can just sign up for the free tier and get our newsletter. Or if you want to pay, you can pay $5 a month and get our casual chats and our monthly pop culture recommendations. And then at 10amonth you also get ad free episodes and your name read on the podcast each month as a than which we will be doing later in this episode. So check that [e-mail] forever35 and you can call or text us at 781-591-0390 and email us at forever35podcastmail.com and we're going to take a short break and we'll be right back with Kate.

[Elise Hu]

We'll be right back.

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[Dory Shafrier]

Kate, welcome back to Forever35. We're so glad to have you.

[Kate Baer]

Thank you for having me. I love this podcast. I'm so honored to be here.

[Dory Shafrier]

Yeah. We last talked to you in November 2021. So it's been. It's been four years.

[Kate Baer]

All right.

[Dory Shafrier]

A lot has happened.

[Elise Hu]

Oh boy.

[Dory Shafrier]

In the world, in your life.

[Kate Baer]

Every time. And I mean every time I've ever put out a book. So this is my fourth time. It's been unprecedented times. It's always in my, like a thing about me. It's like she's putting out this book during unprecedented times. I'm like, at a certain point we can stop saying that.

[Dory Shafrier]

Like right. Right now the times are just the times.

[Kate Baer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Elise Hu]

They are just precedented times.

[Kate Baer]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrier]

We, we typically start off by asking guests about a self care practice that they have, which we will get to. But I feel like. Let's just kind of catch everyone up on what you've been up to these last four years since the last time you were on this. This podcast.

[Kate Baer]

So much has happened. I've moved. I've gotten older. I went through a midlife crisis. I wrote another. A few. Few more books, two more books. And there's been a lot of unprecedented times, a lot of really wonderful times as well. So I'm trying to focus on that.

[Elise Hu]

I'm curious how your midlife crisis presented itself to you. Like, how did it manifest? How did you realize, like, okay, I'm in this vortex now?

[Kate Baer]

Well, I've always been such a late bloomer, so it was a really a shock to me that I would go through it so early. I was, like, the very green age of, like, 38, almost 39 when that happened. And it was so. It. Like, it came out of nowhere. I started to have all these health problems. Just a whole array of things started to happen to my body, which really made me face my own mortality in a way that I had never done before. At the same time, my kids are getting older and time is just moving faster in general. And all of a sudden, I started to panic. Like, my brain was just constantly telling me, one, I'm going to die, and two, I'm going to miss everything because time is moving so fast. And so either way, I'm just, like, missing my life. So I had to delay this book for a year in order to kind of address a few things. But, yeah, so that's kind of where this book came from and also what's been happening with me.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is a perfect seg, then, to ask our perennial question, which is, what are you doing to take care of yourself?

[Kate Baer]

I don't want to tell you. Do you know why? Because it's such an annoying, boring answer. I feel like people have been telling me my whole life that if I just went for a walk, it's like, you know when you are feeling kind of sick and someone tells you to drink water?

[Dory Shafrier]

You're like, shut.

[Kate Baer]

Shut the fuck up. I'm not going to drink water. But I started to go on these daily walks, and I was like, oh, this. This does help. This really helps me. And I wish I had a, like, exciting poet, poetic answer, or like, I drank some sort of green juice. But really, it's just like, putting my hocus on it, going for a walk. And then all of a sudden, like, 75% of the things that I Was worried about are actually fine. So that is. My self care is just leaving my family and going for a walk.

[Dory Shafrier]

How long of a walk do you take?

[Kate Baer]

It's like a 5K. Oh, wow.

[Dory Shafrier]

Okay.

[Kate Baer]

It takes me forever. I'm so slow. I've never ran a mile. So this is also. I'm going, so. So it's like an hour and 45 minutes later. And my husband's like, where are you?

[Dory Shafrier]

I'm still walking.

[Kate Baer]

Still walk, My man. There's a lot of hills.

[Dory Shafrier]

Do you just like walk out your door and just start walking around the neighborhood?

[Kate Baer]

I just walk out my door. Well, I don't live in a neighborhood. I live in the country. So I'm like walking past cows. I'm talking past sheep. Walking past. Yeah, I carry mace because it's like the country. Like God knows who's out here. But it's very peaceful. I see a lot of dogs. I say hi to them. Sometimes I take my own dog. But honestly, for the most part, I want to be completely alone. It's like I don't even want the dumb dog with me. I just want to be completely alone by myself so I can like, feel my. It sounds crazy, but I like, need to feel my body, like feel myself away from everything so I can like, recalibrate and just walk down the driveway.

[Dory Shafrier]

Great. You listen to anything as you walk or are you just in silence?

[Kate Baer]

Yeah, I rock the fuck out. That's like really a huge part of it is listening to music and listening to like upbeat music and just sometimes silence. If I really need to process something or cry, I will listen to nothing. I also do a lot of like, Marco Polo voxer voice note situation with friends or listen to their podcast. I do listen to podcasts, but the number one podcast I listen to are my own friends, you know, talking about their day, which is. Is such a nice way to end a day is listening to somebody else talk about their problems and just what they're they're doing. So I do a lot of that. Or music. Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

Do you have any sort of like, routine to that? Because I have had some friends say, like, we should send videos to each other every Wednesday to just update where we are in life on Wednesdays, you know, like, not because it's our birthday or because we just came back from a trip or anything. When you all send voice notes to each other, is it just at any random time or have you created some sort of structure around it?

[Kate Baer]

Well, first I want to say that Marco Polo, the app, should really be sending Any cash, like every week. Because I am an evangelist for their app. I pay for the service. It's the. It's the most life changing app I've ever had. It's the number one app I open. If I look at my screen time, it's the number one app I spend the most time on. Because here's the thing. I don't know if this happens to you, but when I catch up with a friend after not seeing them for two weeks, three weeks, six months, two years, the conversation is so boring. And I'm like, yeah, my kids are in youth soccer and volleyball and yes, it's hard, and my husband, whatever. But when I'm sending my friend Heather in California, or my friend Mo who lives, you know, two miles down the road, or my friend Liza who lives in Philly, you know, all this funny thing that just happened this morning and, oh, I just ran into this guy at the post office who was really creepy or, oh, my God, like I just tripped over my dog and hit my head. Like, all this stuff that's just happening throughout the day at all random times, and she's doing the same thing. It creates an intimacy that's like a marriage. And I need those kind of relationships in my life. I'm not interested in catching up over coffee. I find it such a waste of time. I don't. I want to go for a walk with someone, even if it's just virtually and just like talk about the day. And with an app like Marco Polo, there's no. There's no pressure to listen to it right then. I'm just listening. I'm listening to Liza tell me on Monday what she did. And then maybe if I didn't get to it till Wednesday, Tuesday, I'm just catching up with my friends as they're moving about their day. If I have to run my kids, it's like the best. You know, it's what I listen to in the car. I just prefer that way of communication.

[Elise Hu]

It actually reminds me of one of your poems. Do you have how about now in front of you? So how about now, listeners? Is the title of Kate's latest poetry collection, which is out tomorrow. Very exciting. We get to have Kate on the day before her book birthday, the poem I'd love for you to read. So this is like a surprise sample or a sneak peek, folks, because it's not out until tomorrow. Is women texting talking.

[Kate Baer]

Great. This is called women talking. The dog gets sick all over the carpet, makes us late to school. My daughter wailing in the backseat that this is my fault, even though I got this dog to help her manage all her problems. In the parking lot, I send a message that sounds like I hate my life even though I don't. And this is just another morning in the casino hall. Carrie says, I know the feeling. Bethany says, you're almost there. Mo sends a photo of two toads making love in her small koi pond. Milf. We all write back, man do I love frogs and go about our days.

[Elise Hu]

I love that. And you get to name check some of your friends too.

[Kate Baer]

I know. Thank you for noticing that. I hope I get some like flowers.

[Dory Shafrier]

For that because you're welcome. So we're just going to take a short break and we will be right back.

[Elise Hu]

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[Elise Hu]

Tell me what your friend squad has meant to you. Obviously, you've been married for a long time, but this kind of relationship, you know, with deep, intimate relationship with friends, is so vital, obviously, to our mental health, our wellness. This book is kind of a tribute in a lot of ways to that this stage of life. You've talked about how you keep up your relationships, but what have they meant to you?

[Kate Baer]

Oh, my goodness. I could never stay married. I could never raise my children without friends. I think this is kind of a. Maybe not for everyone, but kind of a universal thing for women throughout all of time. I don't think you could go to many corners of the world and not find groups of women gathered talking together. A few years ago, I drove through this little Amish village I happened to drive through, and I was driving by these front porches, and I saw all these groups, they're all dressed in black, just kind of sitting in circles, kind of hunched down together, talking. And I thought, oh, I do that. This is. This is how women survive. This is how we've always survived, was by sitting around bitching to each other and being like, can you believe my husband? Or can you believe my kids? Or, this is so difficult, or just like, this is so funny, or this is so sexy, or whatever. And I found that to be true since the second grade when I met my best friend Jess on the playground and I said, I'm so lonely, basically, and so did she. And we kind of grew up together in that way. I can't imagine existing in the world without deep friendships, especially in a marriage. You know, to put so much pressure on this one other person to fulfill all of your emotional needs is nuts. And so that has been just such a huge part of my life are my female friendships.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, yeah, I feel the same. I just wanted to hear a poet reflect on it.

[Kate Baer]

A poet is just another word for, like, a really annoying person who, like, can't let go of anything and constantly nostalgic. But thank you. I'm so glad.

[Elise Hu]

I want to ask about Instagram in particular, because it's been generative for you in a lot of ways, too. It's led to a collection of poetry for you, and you have a massive following. I'm wondering how you're thinking about and handling the platform and how social media has all kind of been inshitified over the past few years. And so commercial, like Instagram feels like a mall in the way that TikTok feels like a mall. And so previously, maybe when I say previously, I mean like 10 years ago, obviously it wasn't. So. So how are you thinking about your engagement with these platforms now?

[Kate Baer]

I'm asked about social media with every book coming out. I was just asked about it in the podcast I recorded this morning as well. And I. Every year I don't think you can just talk about social media in a blanket way anymore because it changes so fast.

[Elise Hu]

Sure.

[Kate Baer]

I mean, social media is different than it was a year ago, two years ago, certainly different than it was five years ago. Putting out what kind of woman in 2020 is a completely different experience than putting out this book. Instagram is a lot of AI slap slop and a lot of like it's just now the algorithm prioritizes 10 second videos over static posts. And so, you know, the engagement is so different. So I think, yeah, I think anyone who's trying to sell anything on any platform has kind of realized that. Yeah, I've been kind of using the analogy of like pushing. I feel like I was pushing my book cart down this virtual street for a long time and organically just meeting a bunch of people and having them see me. And now I'm pushing my book cart down a kind of an empty street because everyone's over on reels on that street. And yeah, I don't know what the future is. I think maybe I'll just go out on the streets of New York and sell my book from an actual book cart. I think that might be more effective than what's happening now. It's really a really tough place to be, especially if you're starting out to even have an audience because you have to kind of have a viral video moment to get engagement. And even that is so fleeting. Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

Does that translate into somebody going to a bookstore and buying a book? I'm not sure.

[Kate Baer]

I'm not sure. I have no idea. I don't know. Our literacy rates are dropping. Sorry. This is going to get really depressing. I feel very. I've had some real existential moments over the last year. Not about my book. I know it's going to be much harder to sell this book than other books because of the online space, but just in general, just kind of feeling nervous about where we're headed. When every platform, even platforms like Etsy or even websites like that that are being taken over by garbage, you can just resell Amazon slop on Etsy or make AI images. I see it's just wild and I Don't have any answers here. It's such the wild west of the Internet. And I think we're kind of reaching a point where either we're going to have to turn it off and go back into the real world or make some real changes or else it's going to get hairy, don't you think?

[Elise Hu]

Lots of unprecedented times.

[Kate Baer]

It's kind of an unprecedented time. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dory Shafrier]

I was hoping you could talk just a little bit about kind of what you feel like the theme of this book is, or is there sort of something you went into this collection kind of wanting to talk about or get across that's different from your previous books? And I guess this is also sort of a question just about, like, process in general. I mean, I don't think I've ever written a poem in my life. And so it's very, very mysterious to me and feels very opaque. So I was hoping you could talk just a little bit about your process.

[Kate Baer]

Yeah, sure. I think because all my books are personal, so personal that this one is just different because I'm older and because I'm experiencing different things. So I think that's how I would set it apart from the others. My process is the same as all the other times, which is, you know, a lot of, like, taking notes, like writing in my notes app or emailing myself sentences and images or ideas and then using like, dedicated office time to construct the pieces. And I'm certainly not just like, sitting down and writing a poem every Thursday at 9am but there's definitely has to be some, like, dedicated work time and then, you know, pulling from real life when I'm in my real life and just making sure to, like, write things down to be able to put them together later.

[Elise Hu]

I'm thinking about Sarah Kay, the poet who was contributing to this column for many years called Poetry Rx, where somebody would write in and then ask for a poem to kind of. Or just say, like, hey, this is my situation. Like, I've just gone through a miscarriage or something like that. And then she would offer a poem as the prescription. What kind of work do you turn to? Not just for inspiration, but as you're going through things and processing your experience, whether it's a midlife crisis or anything.

[Kate Baer]

Else, I really just turn to other women, both in my real life and in work. Even in novels or fiction. I find a lot of solace there because I think, yeah, even in stories. Like, I don't know if you recently read Hart the Lover by Lily King or that just came out, Road To Tender Hearts also came out this year by Annie Hartnett.

[Dory Shafrier]

Yes.

[Elise Hu]

We had Annie on.

[Kate Baer]

Okay. Oh, she's great. I'm gonna see her next week. Yeah, she. Yeah, she's. She's. She's like a baby doll. I. I find so much comfort even in fictional books like that because there's so much truth in there about the human experience. And I just. I find so much comfort there because it's both an escape, of course, when you're lost in a book, but also especially with the female voice. I find so much comfort and inspiration there, for sure.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. Dory read Road to Tender Hearts in preparation for the interview. I remember there was like a psychic cat or something in it. Was that right?

[Kate Baer]

Yeah, Pumpkin.

[Dory Shafrier]

He knew when people were going to die.

[Kate Baer]

I'm like a huge cat person, so this book was, like, extra amazing for me. Yeah.

[Dory Shafrier]

Oh, I love. I love Annie. She's. I loved. Oh, my God, I'm blanking. What a rabbit cake.

[Kate Baer]

Rabbit cake. That one's. That one's such a sad story. And yet it's also so funny and lovely and.

[Dory Shafrier]

I mean, same with Road to Tender Hearts. Like the sort of precipitating event is very sad, but she's. She's. Yeah, she's just so wonderful. Annie, for listening. We love you.

[Kate Baer]

We love you. I'll see you. And if you. I'll be fangirling next week. She's moderating my Boston event. She's incredible. Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

Oh, that's so fantastic.

[Dory Shafrier]

Yeah. We talked a little bit about Instagram, and one of my favorite poems in the book was A self help guru on Instagram tries to save my life. It just like. I don't know if you read Gia Tolentino's profile of Elizabeth Gilbert in the New Yorker or wasn't a profile. I guess it was more like a book review. And she had this line in there. I couldn't find it again because it was like paywalled. But it was kind of about how I got you all of Elizabeth Gilbert's books. She's trying to become a better person. She's always on her way to becoming a better person. And I just loved this poem because. Well, I don't know. Could you. Could you read it?

[Elise Hu]

Actually?

[Dory Shafrier]

Would you mind?

[Kate Baer]

Yeah, sure. This is called A self help guru on Instagram tries to save my life. I am not your beloved. Don't ask me to come down to the water. I will not be baptized in a Bogo wellness workshop. Free to podcast subscribers. I won't slip into your caftan. Write a Hundred pages. Take the barrel of my body and back up to a sunset Call off your dogs your long newsletters Instead let me walk my stone heart out to the turtle shell we found turned in the backyard down to the river clogged with cans and plastic rings Let me see life's ruin among the living Let me see the grass grow between her knees.

[Elise Hu]

So evocative.

[Dory Shafrier]

I love that so much. And so fancy shade.

[Elise Hu]

Right? Plus sassy, you know.

[Kate Baer]

You know, sometimes that just pops in there and, you know, this Paul almost got cut, and I fought for it, so thank you for defending her. I appreciate that.

[Dory Shafrier]

Oh, wow. I'm glad you didn't cut it. I mean, maybe it just, to me, speaks to me personally.

[Kate Baer]

Yeah, good, good. That's what I hope.

[Dory Shafrier]

That's the point.

[Kate Baer]

I hope that these poems are mirrors, and I'm sure everyone pictures someone different for this poem, but. Yeah, or. Or just that general feeling that Instagram is always trying to sell you something that will fix your life when actually just being off Instagram will fix your life. So, yeah, I. I do think that. I hope that that point comes across.

[Elise Hu]

Your more sort of country or exurban life comes through in this collection. How are you liking living out in a More or in the country as you described?

[Kate Baer]

Yeah, I've been here for four years. 20, 21. Yeah, for four years. Pros and cons. Pros and cons. I can go out in my backyard and nobody sees me, and that's really fun. Yeah. I can take my walks in a beautiful landscape. I'm not far from Philly or New York. It's a train ride away. I have a little city 15 minutes from me. There's a lot of great parts. The hard parts are like the school boards, and some of the culture around me has been diffic and really worn on me. I have some great community here. Some of my best friends live here. My family's not far away, but that's been difficult while also. Also being helpful. Helpful to see how different people live and why they might think the way they do. So. Yeah, it's kind of a mixed bag.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. Did you grow up. Did you grow up in, like, a more city?

[Kate Baer]

I grew up outside of Philadelphia, so I actually kind of grew up in a similar environment. We actually did live in the country. I could get, you know, the Eagle Stadium in 20 minutes. So to give you some perspective, I wasn't that much in the country, but I was in the Philly suburbs enough that I also had a nice backyard, so I kind of lived In a similar vibe. We lived in town before when I had my little, little kids, and it was so fun to be able to walk everywhere. I don't have that luxury here, but, yeah, pros and cons, right?

[Elise Hu]

And now they have kind of the space to grow up there, too. Like, lots. Lots more space.

[Kate Baer]

Yeah. We could get a dog. I don't know. We gotta, like. It's been nice. Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

Well, Dori and I have both had. You share a little bit of our favorite stuff in the collection. Our favorite pieces from the collection. But what's yours? Or are you supposed to even have one?

[Kate Baer]

Oh, sure. I usually have a little favorite. I don't know. I haven't been asked that yet. There's a line at the end of a piece called, you used to text me for nudes, but now it's just for information. For our taxes.

[Elise Hu]

Yes.

[Dory Shafrier]

Yeah.

[Kate Baer]

And. Yeah, that one. That one is a favorite of mine. Just because of the last two lines. I really felt like the angels sing when I. When I. That doesn't happen very often. It's happened maybe five times in my life where I write something, and it. I write so much by ear, and so when all the chord notes come together, that feels really good. So I would say that's my favorite.

[Elise Hu]

When you say you write by ear, do you mean you actually recite the poem out loud as you're writing it? Okay.

[Kate Baer]

Well, yeah, as I'm writing it, as I'm reading it back to myself, I write so much by ear. Yeah. That I really have to sacrifice a lot of sentences or words because it doesn't sound right. And so. Yeah, that's a tough part of it, but also, like, just part of the process.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. And you learn selection and economy. I learned to write that way, too, because I came up in two writing broadcast scripts for television and then later for radio. But it's the same thing. Like, you have to say it. Right.

[Kate Baer]

Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

And people aren't even gonna see it. In lots of cases. They're only hearing it. So it's like. There's something melodic and rhythmic about it, which is nice.

[Kate Baer]

Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

Nice for poetry. Okay, so there's one more line that I was really struck by that I think is a good note to kind of project forward to. It is a passage from your poem Watershed. And I'll just read the passage really quick. Somewhere a voice says, why not remake the world? Why not embrace it with the softest forms of love? What I think she's trying to say is, what are we waiting for? So my question to you, especially in this year of our Lord 2025. What are we waiting for? What can we do to remake the world in a softer, kinder image?

[Kate Baer]

I wrote that piece during our last election cycle when I think a lot of us were kind of waiting for somebody else to do something and save us from ourselves. And I think that is a real problem in our country, in maybe our shared political party, where we think, well, someone else will come save us, when really that is maybe one of the most dangerous concepts we can have, both politically and in our own lives. Like, I find myself doing this like I'm unhappy about something, but I'm just waiting for something to change when I'm the only one that can change it. And it's kind of the same for everything. I have felt so much, kind of a sickness about so many of the things that I've seen play out after the last election. And it really took some inward reflection. And I'm not saying I have all the answers here, but to kind of see, oh, I'm the one that can make the change. I'm the one that can go out into my community and get involved. And even in just the tiniest, smallest ways, my friend Nora McInerney, she says this, she kind of preaches this where she's like, if you feel bad about. If you feel bad about something, taking one action step to help somebody else will immediately make you feel better about everything. And I found that so much to be true. If I can get into my kids classroom and volunteer for an hour, my entire perspective on everything changes. Because I'm seeing real. I'm seeing those real teachers help these real kids who are having these real struggles instead of just looking at an Instagram infographic telling me about teachers and kids and school. And we live so much in a virtual place that is covered in fallacy and so much rot. And if we just get out into the real world with real people, I think that is the anecdote to this, which is something I'm constantly telling myself.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, that point about waiting for somebody else to solve our problems, I feel like can really lead down authoritarian paths because you're looking for a parent, you know, you have an entire political party that has radically changed itself in the image of, or like essentially a cult leader in a lot of ways. And. But yeah, he is a strong man. And I think there is that sense of like, looking for somebody else.

[Kate Baer]

Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

To solve things.

[Kate Baer]

Because people are tired. People are. Especially people who are struggling financially or just struggling with so many things that we can't even wrap our heads around, they're looking for someone to save them, and it's such a false construct, and it's really hard to see. And it's also hard to see in myself because I can do the same thing. Not that I'm waiting for, necessarily for a political figure to save me, but maybe just something else to happen in my life when it's me that has the control. And. Yeah, it's kind of the human experience, I guess, that I'm also struggling with. Yeah.

[Dory Shafrier]

Well, Kate, it's been so great to get to talk to you again, and congratulations again on your new collection. I know you're going on tour for it, and I'm sure you're stopping in a lot of places where our listeners live. Where can they find all that info?

[Kate Baer]

You can find me on most social medias at katejbear. My last name is spelled B A E R. I also have a website. Honestly, if you just type my name into Google, everything should come up. I'm on substack. I'm on Instagram. I'm in all the places you can find people like me. And, yeah, I'd love to see you on tour. Oh, my gosh. It's my favorite part. I'll be in New York. I'll be in California, into three different spots, and in the middle of the country, Canada.

[Dory Shafrier]

Wow.

[Elise Hu]

Okay. They're still letting us Americans in for now.

[Kate Baer]

They're letting me in for now. Yeah, they're letting me in for now. So, yeah, let's hope I make it there.

[Elise Hu]

Kate Bear's new collection is called how about now? You can get it starting tomorrow. Kate, thanks again.

[Kate Baer]

Thank you for having me.

[Dory Shafrier]

Kate is so cool.

[Elise Hu]

There were so many questions that I asked her that were just, like, kind of because I wanted her to explain something to me, you know, like, I just need your insight on this because you are so articulate.

[Dory Shafrier]

Totally, totally, totally.

[Elise Hu]

Like, oh, yes. I feel that. Thank you for putting it into words.

[Dory Shafrier]

Exactly, exactly.

[Elise Hu]

All right, Intentions, intentions. What was yours last week?

[Dory Shafrier]

Well, mine was just to sort of, like, enjoy Nationals, like, just be happy I was there live in the moment. Um, and I was texting with our league coordinator when it was, like, clear that we were going to advance to the semis. And she was like, this is amazing. Congratulations. But from the semifinals on, it's just icing on the cake, like, just making it to Sunday. Oh, I also forgot to mention that we qualified for semis by one set. So we were three and one. And if a bunch of teams have the Same record. Then they start looking like really granularly. So then it goes to, like individual set losses, individual lines won, and then individual sets lost.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrier]

Like over the course of four matches with five lines each, sets lost. Wow. And we had lost one fewer set than the next team. It's just crazy. So anyway, sports. I would say I fulfilled my. My intention from last week. You know, Elise, you were talking about stretching last week, and I feel like that is something that I've been woefully deficient on. So, you know, even if it's just like a 10 minute, like gentle yoga or something, I need to just like do something like that. Um, so I'm.

[Elise Hu]

Put it down.

[Dory Shafrier]

I'm gonna make. Yeah, I'm gonna make that my intention this week. How did your stretching go?

[Elise Hu]

It was helpful to have set the intention. I could have done more, but just setting the intention to stretch. Last week I made myself when I got up in the morning, and I never stretch in the morning. When I got up in the morning and got out of bed, I would do a few stretches. Like I would do plank to pike, you know, downward facing dog. Just a few things. Try to touch my toes. Gentle stretches. Before I went to brush my teeth or before I went to go like downstairs to feed the dog, I just did a little thing. And I feel like that one week was better than the week before. So that helped.

[Dory Shafrier]

That's very cool.

[Elise Hu]

This week my sleep hygiene has been terrible, which I talked about on last week's casual chat. And so this week I really gotta get my sleep in order. It's gonna be very difficult over the weekend because I'm going to the Las Vegas of the Midwest. Do you know where that is?

[Dory Shafrier]

Branson, Missouri.

[Elise Hu]

That's a good contender. And I do love Branson. Apparently it's Deadwood, South Dakota. So I'm going to Deadwood.

[Dory Shafrier]

Never would have guessed.

[Elise Hu]

No, I'm staying at a Rock Sceno. So I'm just going to be there for one night for a friend's 50th. One of my best friends, Justin, who I've talked about on the show, he'll fly out from Texas to take care of my kids for me sometimes. And so I have to show up for him for his birthday and he wanted to do it in the Las Vegas of the Midwest. So one night I will not fulfill my intention. But the rest, I'm ready. Really going to get serious about an earlier bedtime.

[Dory Shafrier]

Amazing. All right, everybody. Thank you so much. As I mentioned earlier in the episode, this is the episode where we thank all of our Patreon supporters. And again, these are our supporters at the $10 level or above. So if you would like to hear your name read as a thank you, you can Support us at Patreon.com Forever35 so thank you to the following listeners. Justice Bureau Jasmine DeJesus, Christy Heather Whaley, Caitlin H. Katie Ashley Taylor, Teresa Anderson, Michelle Maya, Barbara C. Amy Amy Schnitzer, Megan Shelley Lee, Kim Begler, Sarah Boozy, Allison Cohen, Susan Berseth, Fran Kelsey Wolf, Donay Laura Eddy Jettle Apte, Valerie Bruno, Julie Daniel E. Jackson, Catherine Burke, Amy Maseko, Liz Rain JDK Hannah M, Julia P Maddie o' Day Marissa Sarah Bell, Maria Diana, Coco Bean, Laura Haddon, Josie H. Nikki Bossert, Juliana Duff, Chelsea Torres, Tiffany G, Emily McIntyre, Stephanie Germana, Olivia Fahey, Elizabeth A, Christine Bassis, Jessica Gale, Zulima Lundy, Carolyn Rodriguez, Carrie Golds, Ann T. Katherine Ellingson, Kara Brugman, Sarah H, Sarah Egan, Jess Combin, Jennifer Olson, Jennifer hs, Eliza Gibson, Jillian Bowman, Brianne Macy, Elizabeth Holland, Karen Perelman, Katie Jordan, Sarah M. Kate M. Josie Elquist, Tara Todd, Elizabeth Cleary and Monica thank you all so much. We are so grateful for you. You really keep the show going. So thank you so much. And just a reminder that Forever 35 is hosted and produced by me, Dory Shafriar, Annalise Hugh and produced and edited by Sam Hunio. Sammy Reed is our project manager and our network partner is Acast. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks.

[Elise Hu]

Talk to you on Wednesday.

[Dory Shafrier]

Bye bye.

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