Episode 383: The Joy of Adult Hobbies with Anne Helen Petersen | Culture Study Cross-Over Episode

Summary

Forever35 Episode 383 Summary

Title: The Joy of Adult Hobbies with Anne Helen Petersen | Culture Study Cross-Over
Hosts: Doree Shafrir & Elise Hu
Guest: Anne Helen Petersen (Culture Study Podcast)
Date: January 5, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this engaging crossover conversation, Forever35 hosts Doree Shafrir and Elise Hu team up with Anne Helen Petersen of the Culture Study podcast to explore the complex world of adult hobbies. The dialogue delves into the value of hobbies, challenges in finding and nurturing them amid adult responsibilities, the temptation to monetize joy, and the subtle balance between sharing your passion and staying present. Drawing from listener questions and their own experiences—from competitive tennis to gardening and community-building—the group deconstructs what it means to have a hobby in adulthood, how to rediscover play, and why it's perfectly fine if “reading on the couch” is all you want.

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Main Themes and Purposes

• Defining and reclaiming the adult hobby
• Overcoming cultural pressures to optimize or monetize hobbies
• Navigating the logistics and emotions of fitting hobbies into busy, often family-filled lives
• Making peace with seasonal shifts in personal priorities
• Nurturing joy, connection, and exploration through non-transactional pursuits

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Counts as a Hobby? (22:11)

• Listener Question: Is there a universal definition of a hobby? Does it have to be productive or skill-building?
• Hosts’ Views:
  • Elise separates “ego-driven” (transactional/monetized) from “soul-driven” (pure joy, no outcome required) hobbies. Journaling for oneself vs. writing for pay demonstrates this.
  • Doree pushes back against the productivity trap:

    “We’ve become conditioned to feeling like hobbies must be ‘productive.’ And I think that’s really a trap... You don’t always have to be improving.” (23:13)

  • Anne Helen notes how even reading, often undervalued as a hobby, is a legitimate and sustaining pastime (19:20–20:20).

2. Hobbies in the Context of Parenting and Seasons of Life (13:04)

• Listener Eileen shares: When parenting multiple kids with sports and activities, your “hobby” may well be deep involvement in your children’s lives.
• Anne Helen reframes intensive parenting as a legitimate, if temporary, hobby:
  • “Right now her hobby is intensive parenting... and I’m not saying that in a derogatory way.” (14:15)
  • The hosts remind listeners that life stages change; time for other hobbies will come back around:
    • “You’re not always going to be the parent of three kids playing competitive sports... you will probably end up having more time.” – Doree (15:22)
• Reading as a valid hobby during these busy times is celebrated.

3. Monetization, Instagrammability, and Sharing (24:20, 45:20)

• The pressure to share or monetize hobbies is real in the current culture:
  • “Sometimes a hobby has to be something that you could document, that has to be Instagrammable almost.” – Anne Helen (24:20)
  • Doree resists monetization of her tennis newsletter for fear of losing joy:
    • “I’ve had people ask if I’m going to monetize my tennis newsletter...[but] that feels like adding a layer of stress...not worth it.” (46:03)
• Sharing hobbies on social media:
  • “If you want to post about it, post about it. People can...not watch your stories...who cares?” – Anne Helen (47:27)
  • Self-awareness about how social sharing affects personal enjoyment is key.

4. Rediscovering and Exploring New Hobbies (31:05, 32:07)

• Listener Sarah asks: How do you reconnect with hobbies after years of being “off the clock” as a parent?
  • Elise and Anne Helen advocate for low-barrier, local rec-center classes:
    • “They tend to be like six weeks...an opportunity to be introduced to some potential hobbies.” – Elise (32:18)
  • Doree adds the value of social/community-based hobbies for unexpected connections across generations and backgrounds.

5. Financial Realism and Hobby Acquisitiveness (31:29,36:21)

• Rachel asks about free hobbies. The hosts suggest:
  • City tours
  • Library programs and tool check-outs
  • Local historical and craft societies
  • Community centers and park programs
• Doree and Anne Helen warn against “acquisition creep”—the compulsion to buy gear before commitment is established:
  • “For most hobbies, you don’t need to go all in right away and buy all the stuff.” – Doree (36:21)
  • Hobbyists typically love sharing or loaning gear to newcomers.

6. Dabbling, Guilt, and Guardrails (38:05)

• Not settling on one hobby, or moving from one to another, is not a flaw—particularly for those with ADHD or a dabbler’s temperament.
• “See it in yourself and know that you can put up some guardrails around it...hobbyists love to share stuff.” – Anne Helen (38:41)

7. The “Why” of Hobbies—Satisfaction and Delight (52:08)

• Final thoughts centered on what keeps each guest coming back:
  • Elise: “It’s the same thing I want on my tombstone: all her friends became friends.” (52:08)
  • Doree: “Realizing that I’ve gotten better...that’s really satisfying.” (52:20)
  • Anne Helen: The pure present-moment joy and calm her dahlias bring—a visualization she uses to fall back asleep at night.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Part of curing yourself of burnout is having something to turn away to. Right. It’s not just like ‘I can’t work as much’...you have to have something else.”
  — Anne Helen Petersen (11:01)
• “A hobby doesn’t have to be all-consuming. You can do needlepoint once a month and that can be your hobby.”
  — Doree Shafrir (15:54)
• “If you have downtime and all you want to do is read, that is a hobby. You’re doing it.”
  — Melody Rowell (19:24)
• “Our hobbies don’t need to be all-consuming...they should be a return to ourselves. If your pursuits have gotten too ego-driven…hobbies are a way to be really soul-driven.”
  — Elise Hu (17:44)
• “Hobbyists love to share information. They want someone to just talk about it with all the time.”
  — Anne Helen Petersen (38:41)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:30 – 13:00: Introductions & personal hobby journeys
• 13:04 – 20:30: Navigating hobbies in parenting seasons; reading as a hobby
• 22:11 – 26:00: What counts as a hobby? Productivity, monetization, and authenticity
• 31:05 – 41:41: Practical advice for (re)discovering hobbies, low-cost/free ideas, and the downsides of hobby-related consumerism
• 45:20 – 51:26: Sharing hobbies online, the tension between community and presence, pressure to monetize
• 52:08 – 53:57: Favorite moments of delight and lasting satisfaction that keep the hosts coming back to their hobbies

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Tone & Style

This episode is candid, warm, and relatable. The hosts balance humor and self-reflection, never shying from the realities and vulnerabilities of adult life—whether that’s craving connection, feeling pressure to be productive, or confronting the ephemeral nature of joy. The tone is inclusive and gives genuine permission for listeners to embrace whatever form their hobby—or lack thereof—takes.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• You do not need to justify or optimize your hobbies; enjoyment is enough.
• There will be seasons where hobbies take a backseat—this is normal and healthy.
• Avoid the pressure to monetize or “Instagrammify” your joy unless it genuinely enriches your experience.
• Community, self-discovery, and small moments of satisfaction are valid and beautiful rewards for hobbyists of any kind.
• It’s perfectly fine if your main hobby right now is reading on the couch. Or saying yes to trying new things in small ways. Or simply surviving a busy season of life.

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Transcript

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[Dory Shafrir]

I am really feeling that the busy season has started. I don't know about you Elise. Yes, but I think what's really important is that we need to remember to put a little bit of ourselves first too. And we can do that with the brand new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus. Powered by Peloton iq. It's Peloton's most elevated equipment with real time guidance and endless ways to move alone or with your favorite instructors. It's cross training reimagined with features designed to help you reach your goals effortlessly and personally. I know that having a plan helps me stay motivated. Knowing that I have a certain class on a certain day, even at a certain time, helps me move forward with my fitness goals. Even if I don't really want to show up on that certain day or certain time.

[Elise Hu]

I get it.

[Unidentified Short Interjections]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

Peloton IQ provides just that with their personalized plans and recommendations. This can include weekly recommended classes led by instructors who match your mood, vibe and personality, not to mention the variety in workouts available. Go on a 40 minute run on the tread plus or a 5 minute stretch off of it with one smooth spin of that swivel screen. It offers endless ways to train for a well rounded routine. No matter how busy you are, let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push and go explore the new peloton cross training tread plus at 1peloton.com. Hello and welcome to Forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Dory Shafrier.

[Elise Hu]

And I'm Elise Hu and we are two friends who like to talk a lot about serums. Happy New Year to y'. All. This is our first episode of 2026. We are here.

[Dory Shafrir]

We are so here and we have a very special episode for you today that I'm so excited about. We did a crossover episode with none other than Anne Helen Peterson, the host of the Culture Study Podcast, the writer of the Culture Study newsletter. I've known Anne Helen from for 10 years maybe she we worked together at Buzzfeed. I edited a lot of her work. Been a longtime fan and friend of hers. She's awesome and it was really nice to get to talk to her about hobbies.

[Elise Hu]

Yes. So we go into hobbies because I think, well, she'll tell you, she'll explain in the episode. You know, a lot of Culture Study podcast listeners have been wanting an episode about hobbies and not just like what we do, you know, in our spare time, the value of hobbies, the way you think about them, nurture them, why hobbies, et cetera, et cetera. So we get into all of that in this podcast episode.

[Dory Shafrir]

Please enjoy it quickly before we jump in. You can Visit our website forever35podcast.com. We have links there to everything we mentioned here on the show. We are on Instagram at february35podcast. Our patreon [e-mail] Forever35 and new for 2026, we are doing our casual chats on video. We will also be doing a quarterly live casual chat because we had so much fun doing the one a couple months ago. So join us at patreon.com/forever35 and get in on all the fun. You can shop our favorite products@shopmy us forever35, our newsletter is also on Patreon. Now, you don't need to be a paying member to get our newsletter. You can just sign up as a free, free member and you will get our newsletter. And just a reminder that you can call or text us with questions, comments, concerns for our mini episodes at 781-591-0390 and email us at forever35podcastmail.com also, I'm just gonna like quickly formally introduce Anne Helen because I don't think like we actually do that as we're talking to her. So for those of you who are not familiar with Anne Helen, although I know that there's a ton of crossover between our audiences, Anne Helen grew up in North Idaho. She received her PhD in media studies from the University of Texas. She was in academia and then she moved over to journalism. After she started she she wrote a freelance piece for Buzzfeed and then she got a job at Buzzfeed in 2014 and her work there in celebrity analysis was what sort of eventually led to culture study. In addition to culture study, she has also written four books and the most recent book is out of Office the Big Problem and Bigger Promise of Working from Home. So we will now segue over to our episode with Anne Helen.

[Elise Hu]

Enjoy.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

This is the Culture Study Podcast, and I'm Anne Helen Peterson.

[Dory Shafrir]

And I'm Dori Shafriar.

[Elise Hu]

And I'm Elise Hu. And we are the co hosts of the Forever 35 podcast, which is all about how we take care of ourselves.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Today's episode is probably the most requested subject in the almost two years that I've been doing the podcast. I write about this subject a lot and the newsletter has a lot of discussion threads about it. But today we're finally going to get into it in podcast form. The thing that we're talking about is adult hobbies, and we have a ton of great questions from listeners and we're going to get into specific advice about hobbies because a lot of people want suggestions on hobbies or about how to handle their hobbies. That's going to be in the last part of the show in the Ask and Anything segment. So if you're not a paid subscriber and you want to be part of that conversation, you definitely want to sign [e-mail] culturestudy but to kick things off, we're recording this a couple days after a big hobby related event in Dori's life. So, Dori, tell us all about it. I can't wait.

[Dory Shafrir]

Oh, my gosh. Okay, so. Hi, everyone. My. One of my tennis teams recently went to the USTA League National Championship, where 17 teams at your level from the different sections throughout the country compete for the national championship. And we went representing SoCal. And this is a hobby of mine. This is like my main hobby. This is something that I started doing very casually during COVID because I was going stir crazy and decided to take tennis lessons. I'd played, I'd taken some lessons as a kid, but I never played competitively. It was not like my sport that I was getting back into. I was just.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yes, that's what I, I think people assume that you were like, maybe a tennis star in high school or.

[Dory Shafrir]

No, I swam in high school. I, I was a swimmer. I, I didn't play tennis. I couldn't even serve. Like, I, I never, I'd never played a match in my life. So. Yeah, so this was, like, very spontaneous and more just like, I need to get outside. Oh, there's a. There's a public court near my house. Cool. And then, you know, fast forward three years later, and here I am at the league national championships with my team. So.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

So we're going to get so much more into that as we go through this episode. But When I first reached out, like, I knew that I wanted to talk to you specifically Doria, about adult hobbies. And you're like, elise has a great hobby, but it's not what people might imagine or what people might even. And this we're gonna talk about, like what makes a hobby later in the show. But, Elise, what would you say your hobby is?

[Elise Hu]

Well, it's so funny because if you were to ask me on a date or something, I would be like, I don't have any hobbies. And so I either have a lot of them or I have like one consistent one, you know, So I make sure that I have in each week of my life units for reading, which is a hobby, and units, for example, exercise, and all these things that I consider outside of capitalistic exchange, you know, and stuff. And that's what I consider a hobby. But I think what I have come to really spend a lot of my energy on over the last couple of years, because it gives me meaning and purpose and joy, is just sort of kin building or community building. And so I spend a lot of energy just like, okay, what's the next party I'm going to throw for everybody? Or what can I do at my house to get more dogs to stop by? So like now I'm doing like a treat station at my house. I already have the little free library, like, which neighbors can I get to know better?

[Anne Helen Peterson]

And so that's actually Dory phrased it to me as. You like meeting people.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah, I love meeting people.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

I do.

[Elise Hu]

And I think that there's something like really rich about it too, because you're colliding with people of completely different backgrounds or extremely experiences and who knows what it can lead to later on. But it also, like, mainly it makes me feel like alive and human. And I think that we need that in these times.

[Dory Shafrir]

Elise hosted my birthday party.

[Elise Hu]

Oh, yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

Like, mostly with a guy she'd never met before. She was like, just invite your friends. It's like, okay, that's great.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

I was just gonna say, Elise, one thing that you can add to your repertoire of getting people to stop by more. Someone that I interviewed for my book, whose story I just love so much. They're in New York, but I think you can do this anywhere. He put a xylophone on a string on. Not like a big one, like one like, you know, a couple feet on a string on his stoop. And so every kid in the neighborhood is like, that's the xylophone stoop. And they all stop by and like sit, you know, What? I mean, so he's made it not just a beacon for dogs, but also for children.

[Elise Hu]

Oh, I like that. I wonder if my own kids would find that so annoying.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Don't let your kids interfere with your adult hobbies.

[Dory Shafrir]

Maybe there's a reason to do it.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, like, they hate it when I play piano. Playing piano is one of my hobbies, but I have to do it alone in the middle of the day.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

So I feel like people who listen to this podcast know what my hobbies are, but I should put them out there because there's going to be other listeners to this podcast other than people who've heard me talk about how I spend a lot of time growing dahlias. That has been my major new post pandemic hobby. But I was into gardening. I've been a gardener for a really long time, and I actually was a gardener even while I was in grad school. And I can actually trace, like, the times of the most burnout in my life are the times when I didn't have a garden. And I've written about this before, but I only realized in hindsight that, like, part of curing yourself of burnout is having something to turn away to. Right. It's not just like, I can't work as much like, you have to have something else that can become that other access in your life. And so gardening. I also long distance run. I don't even know if I think about that as a hobby. There's always this fine line for me with exercise. Right. Like, is it regimenting my body? Is weightlifting? Is doing like a peloton workout my hobby?

[Elise Hu]

You know, the difference for me is if it's social, then I consider it my hobby. Right. So, like, I run with running buddies. And so that I guess falls under the general umbrella of just being with others, you know, and it makes it less. It makes it feel less like a chore.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yes.

[Elise Hu]

Which exercise can be.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

And I think for everyone, it's totally different. Like, and even day to day, for me, how I think about exercise is like, is this hobby exercise or is this, like, trying to be strong to combat osteoporosis in my future? You know, that sort of thing.

[Elise Hu]

Do you consider yourself a baker, too?

[Anne Helen Peterson]

No, no. God, no.

[Unidentified Short Interjections]

I used to.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Like, I can make one thing. Do you bake?

[Elise Hu]

Okay. No, not really. I was just curious because I know a lot of people. I feel like the older we get, the more people get into plants. Like, suddenly I care a lot about my plants. And I'm like, why? What happened? What was the Shift, but then also take up baking. So I was just curious.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Okay, let's hear our first question which comes from Eileen. And Melody's gonna read it.

[Melody Rowell]

I'd love to hear about parents with multiple school age kids who are involved in competitive activities, high level sports or building strong college applications. Most evenings are spent shuttling to practices or clubs, rarely home before 9pm and weekends are filled with tournaments or prepping for the week ahead. And this is often with only one or two activities per kid. At these levels, parents have to be involved to learning the process, showing up and helping their kids reach the next stage. Especially with sports and college prep. Add in homework, laundry and cooking and there is barely a minute left. I'm not complaining. I love being part of the stage for my kids, but there's also pressure to find hobbies and do things for myself. And it is not that straightforward. We already rely on our networks just to make it all work. And honestly, when downtime comes, I just want to read a book on the couch. The, the kids activities can start to feel like our hobbies because the friendships, time with other parents and all the involvement is such a big part of life. Honestly, is it so wrong? If that is really my hobby right now, I would love to hear how other parents in this stage think about it and what balance looks like for them.

[Elise Hu]

I have the same questions.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Well, my first comment to Eileen is that right now her hobby is intensive parenting. And I'm not saying that in a derogatory way just to be clear from the top. But like there are a couple things in the question that really point to the fact that like this is a of involvement in kids hobbies that didn't used to be standard. My mom certainly was not involved in any of my high school hobbies or really in my college prep. Like that was not something that she was intimately involved in or she did not facilitate it. She did not come and watch every time that I cheerleaded for example. But that's okay, right? Like I think that's the thing is she's, she feels like there's a pressure to be involved in intensive parenting, but also like cultivate a rich life of the personal mind and all of these other, these other components of her life. Um, and I don't think you have to feel pressure about that, but it's okay to acknowledge that maybe this is your hobby for this season of life. What do you guys think?

[Dory Shafrir]

I was gonna say, I feel like we, we have to acknowledge that there's going to be seasons of life like I would not have been able to take up tennis when I was doing ivf.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

Or had a newborn. Just my life was not in a place where that was going to be able to happen. And for this listener, too, like, I, you know, you're not always going to be the parent of three kids playing competitive sports. Like, your kids will not always be in that phase, and you will probably end up having more time. I also think, like, you know, my hobby has become sort of all consuming, but a hobby doesn't have to be all consuming.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Really good point.

[Dory Shafrir]

Like, if you're. You can. You can do needlepoint once a month, and that can be your hobby. I mean, you know, I don't think it has to be something that you're doing all the time.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yeah. Elise, what do you think?

[Elise Hu]

I like that. I have a lot of thoughts about being a sport parent, because I have recently, I have two kids who are now playing club sports or like, travel ball. And the youngest.

[Dory Shafrir]

And you have three kids.

[Elise Hu]

And I have three kids total. The middle one is a dancer and does a bunch of company dance. And there's. I feel as though there's kind of this arms race with the parents, too. Like, not only do you need to show up at the game, there's also, I would say, a comfortable majority of the parents that sit through entire practices. So they will practice volleyball two hours for three times a week for two hours. And they have parents that just sit there on the sidelines and give over their time to volleyball practice. So not even the games or scrimmages. And so I. So I guess two things. One is totally echoing what the two of y' all are saying, and that, you know, our hobbies don't need to be all consuming. They should be a return to ourselves in a way, obviously. Like, if you're feeling like your pursuits have gotten too ego driven or competitive, that hobbies are a way to be really soul driven. And I. I like that as a heuristic. And then secondly, you can also evaluate how much you are spending on the sidelines of things, too. So I'm not saying that this caller is necessarily sitting through every single practice, but there are many parents that I have observed that are doing that, and I choose not to, but it just does seem like there's a social pressure to be involved at a level, like, at the maximal level, Right?

[Anne Helen Peterson]

No, And I will say that, like, there were a lot of other cheerleaders whose parents would come and watch every single game. And there was part of me that was like, why isn't my mom coming to watch. And then I like, in hindsight, I'm like, first of all, I wouldn't have wanted her there. It was embarrassing to have my mom like surveilling me. Right. For me personally. But then also, she had a lot of other things to do. And that's okay. She showed up and anytime that I said it was important, you know, she was always there. And I think that's like, that's an important gauge. Yeah, but yeah, it. I do think sometimes we get like so wrapped up in the feeling that like there is no other option.

[Elise Hu]

Right. Everyone else is doing it.

[Dory Shafrir]

Right.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

This is the only way to be a sports parent. And sometimes there are slightly different options.

[Dory Shafrir]

But Dory, I also just want to point out that there are things you can do whilst sitting on the sidelines.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yeah, totally.

[Elise Hu]

Especially.

[Dory Shafrir]

Especially if you are going to practices which do not require constant engagement, in my personal opinion. You know, we all. As I mentioned before, I was a swimmer as a kid and in high school and my brother and sister also swam and swim meets are very long and very boring. And my mom was knitting the whole time. Yes, she was just sitting there knitting.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Okay, so our comments are. There are ways to fit in hobbies if you want. But I think Eileen is looking for permission structure to not have hobbies right now. And we are on board.

[Dory Shafrir]

Oh yeah, that's fine too.

[Melody Rowell]

Wait, can I point something out?

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yeah.

[Melody Rowell]

Eileen mentions a hobby in this question.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

What?

[Melody Rowell]

Reading is a hobby.

[Elise Hu]

She reads every day.

[Melody Rowell]

Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

That's more than a lot of people do.

[Melody Rowell]

If you have downtime and quote unquote, all you want to do is read. That is a hobby.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yeah.

[Melody Rowell]

You're doing it.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

No, and I. I actually have encountered this a lot in the culture study comments, talking about hobbies. One person will always pipe up and be like, reading is my hobby. And then many other people be like, I never thought about how reading could be a hobby. And I think that's because it's become so. I don't like, there's just lots of different balances of why you read, who reads that sort of thing. And it's like if only. You're only. It can only be your hobby if you like, only read it like in genre. Right. Like, if you're like a sci Fi reader, that can be a hobby. But if you're just reading, then that's not hobby coded. I don't know. This is just how people think of themselves. Like they need to have a framework that understands that reading is a hobby.

[Elise Hu]

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[Anne Helen Peterson]

Okay, next question. This comes from Kelsey.

[Dory Shafrir]

What counts as a hobby? I always struggle to answer the question when somebody asks what my hobbies are. Is there a universal definition? And does a hobby have to be working towards improving a skill? Or can it truly just be something you like?

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Wow, good job me already answering the question, but I want to hear. What do you guys think?

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, I talked a little bit about this earlier. Like usually I consider my hobbies things that aren't transactional. Like I'm not doing it to make money or to monetize it. Like I journal regularly and which is different than writing because I write for pay, but then I journal for myself and I think that can happen with books too. We have to read a lot for our work, but I read for pleasure, which makes that more of a hobby. So that's one delineation. And then the other I touched on as well, which is like, is it ego driven or is it soul driven? And if it's a more soul driven activity, then I classify it as a hobby.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Dory, what do you think?

[Dory Shafrir]

I think, and I think that this is touched on a little bit in another question as well, where someone was asking about why she always feels the need to monetize her hobbies, that we've become conditioned to feeling like hobbies must be quote, unquote productive. And I think that's really, that's a trap. You don't always have to be improving. I mean, when I first started playing tennis, I was like, I'm not going to play matches. Like, I'm just doing this for fun. Like, this is. And then I kind of realized that it becomes more fun the better you get at tennis. And so the way to get better at tennis was to start playing matches. And so that just sort of. And then I was like, oh, I actually really enjoy this. But you know, my husband plays guitar. That's his hobby. He's not in a band, he doesn't perform. He just plays for his own enjoyment. And to me, that sort of feels like the definition of a hobby is just doing something that you're not making money from that you get pleasure out of.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yeah, no, and I think, like, we're going to talk more about this monetization move later. Like the idea too that sometimes a hobby has to be something that you could like, document that has to be Instagrammable almost. Right. And I think that's part of what we were talking about earlier about people saying, like, it's hard to conceive of reading as a hobby because besides like Instagramming, your like meson scene of, of your book and like your coffee or whatever, like, there's not a lot of like, or even just like putting the books that you've read on Instagram, which, you know, Melody does this and I love it. And to me, that, like, emphasizes to me. Oh, Melody's hobby. One of Melody's hobbies is reading. But you don't have to put it on Instagram for it to be your hobby.

[Elise Hu]

Right.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

I was thinking, Elise, while you were talking about someone earlier this month writing out their morning routine. And what it included is writing her morning pages, which is her journaling, and she throws them away when she's done with it.

[Elise Hu]

Oh, I love the ephemera. Of that. Yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

That's cool.

[Elise Hu]

I love the notion that every moment is a cherry blossom. You know, it's gone. Yeah.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yeah. And you don't. Because other people, I think sometimes if they're journaling, they're like, oh, I don't want to. I don't want to ever look at this again. Or I do want to look at it, but, like, where do I keep these? Like, just all of that weight of collection, and sometimes you can just do it and throw it away.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Dory, when you started getting more, like, in the competitive aspect, was there any part of you that was like, be careful. Like, don't get too sucked into this, or, like, make sure you still have fun? That part.

[Dory Shafrir]

No.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Good. No, I'm fine. Because for me, I'm so scared of, like, trying to optimize my hobby that I sometimes I think put the brakes on too hard, if that makes sense.

[Dory Shafrir]

So it's funny because I drove to nationals and back with three of my teammates. Like, we carpooled. And on the way back, we were like. We were reflecting, oh, our team this season, we're probably going to make it to sectionals, and, like, we're really good. And one of my teammates was like, I'm tired of all the winning. And I was like. I was like, you know what? I feel that, too, sometimes. Like, it is.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

It.

[Dory Shafrir]

It does create this sort of pressure. And to be like, now we're sort of known as a team that, like, wins a lot and, you know, what happens when we lose. And I want. And I. And I'm the captain of the team, which is something that I also get a lot of enjoyment out of. It, like, really suits my personality, but there's also pressure to it. And I'm captain of multiple teams this season, and I was like, okay, I need to. Next season, I'm just going to captain one team. Like, this is. The logistics of. It became too much, and I was starting to lose some of the enjoyment I was getting out of it. And I think that was me sort of pumping the brakes and realizing, okay, I do really love this, but I've kind of, like, taken it to a level that it did not need to be taken to, and I need to sort of, like, dial it back. And, you know, I love all the aspects of being a captain and, like, thinking about the lineups and analyzing other teams and, like, that really, you know, that, like, scratches a real itch for me. But I also love playing, and I want to be able to play and not always have to be thinking about, like, the strategy, the team strategy aspect of it. So I think that's. That's sort of how that has manifested for me.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

To your question.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yeah. Gosh, that's so real. I mean, for me, with the dahlias, I love, like, the collection part of it, which is how people get addicted to it, is there's just so many that you feel like you can always get more. And there's so. There is so many beautiful, different varietals. And so, like, when a new one is bred, which, like, this is kind of nerdy, but the way that the jeans and dahlias are, they can create basically infinite combinations when you breed them. So, like, they can be giant. They can be bigger than the size of my face. They can be, like, the size of a thumbnail. They can be every color except for blue and green. They can be open and closed and big petals and messy mops and all sorts of things. And so there's that, like, the categorization component of, like, being a kid and wanting to sort things. Right. Like, that is incredibly pleasurable to me. And then I just love also, like, the anticipation of you plant them and then they sprout, and then you, like, you just have to check on them all the time.

[Elise Hu]

Yes. That's like my hermit crab.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yes.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

There's always something to see. And that thing that I'm seeing is never a judgment of, like, my worth. Right. Like, I'm never. It's not the way that my work, like, travels on the Internet or how well a podcast episode is doing or whether I've sold a book. It's like, is the flower a about to bloom or not? So I love that part. And then the components of it, you know, I do it with two of my. My best friends here on the island, and there are components. Sometimes when we're like, we gotta cut down all these flowers to make these bouquets for tomorrow. Like, oh, kind of a slog. And I. Sometimes when I find myself in that moment, I try to really, like, pause. Like, I actually do this. I pause and I take a deep breath, and I'm like, you really like this? Find the thing that you remember that you really like about doing this. Because sometimes you gotta do the thing that's, like, sucky. Like, right now we're digging all the tubers, and it fucking sucks. But it's part of the seasonality of it.

[Elise Hu]

My parents are both gardeners and have green thumbs. And my mom was reflecting last time she was over because she helps take care of my lawn, because I love it I'm not good at it. So she'll come over and be like, oh, my God, when was the last time you watered this? What about fertilizer? And so I'm just like, I don't know. I do if I feel. And she was like, you know, the beautiful thing about nature is that it speaks to you, you know, and it works in its own time and you can't rush it. And just spending time outside is so valuable for that. Just that we cannot impose our will on those flowers.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

No, for sure. And stuff dies all the time, and you just have to get okay with that. Which is a great lesson for me personally. Like, there's no perfectionism in gardening. Okay, we're going to hear three questions back to back. They all are kind of in the same line, but we'll be able to take them in many different directions. This first one is from Sarah.

[Elise Hu]

With my kids now in high school.

[Dory Shafrir]

I'm ever closer to having time to.

[Elise Hu]

Be able to resume and perhaps even find new hobbies.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

And I'm so excited.

[Elise Hu]

And yet in these mothering years, I think I've forgotten how to do this. Any recommendations on how to reconnect to a sense of exploration and discovery, not just attitudinally, but operationally?

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Great question. Next question comes from Rachel.

[Elise Hu]

I'm looking for hobbies that don't involve money.

[Dory Shafrir]

I'm already the captain of team walking.

[Elise Hu]

Around and exploring random neighborhoods, which I.

[Dory Shafrir]

Think is fun, but so many other things end up having a financial commitment.

[Melody Rowell]

Any thoughts?

[Anne Helen Peterson]

And then this is from Sarima and Melody's gonna read it.

[Melody Rowell]

I've been trying to find hobbies and I'm especially into crafts and gardening, but I find it hard to find something that really hooks me and I don't want to turn into a business. Any advice on how to find a good hobby and stay on track?

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Okay, let's start with the finding hobbies question. What recommendations do you have for someone who's trying to just figure out what they like operationally?

[Elise Hu]

Okay, so this is practical. So in our neighborhoods, I know that there are rec centers and, you know, like community centers that put out those booklets, you know?

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yes.

[Elise Hu]

And they're still in print. They're like in newsprint, and they have classes of all kinds. And it can be self defense. It can be pottery, it can be Korean, you know, or Spanish.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

It comes in the mail. Yeah, yeah.

[Elise Hu]

Pickleball. I feel like that's a first place to peruse. And those are very affordable. They tend to be like six weeks or eight weeks. Long and they're an opportunity to like be introduced to some potential hobbies that you wouldn't have otherwise thought of. That's one thing. That's one place my mind goes in terms of just like searching for things.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Also a great way to like make some intergenerational connections, which I think is like one of the best things about hobbies personally. Dory, what are your thoughts?

[Dory Shafrir]

Well, just quickly to the intergenerational point. My tennis teams have people in their 20s and people in their 60s. Like, we have grandmothers, we have, you know, single people without kids. Like, it's a really, it's racially diverse, ethnically diverse. We have queer players, we have straight. Like it's, it's a real cross section of people that even in Los Angeles, which is a very diverse place, I would not have met these people. Like, because I have a six year old. Most of the new people I meet now are moms and there are moms on the team, but there's also a lot of people who are not moms. So I think that's one of the really cool things about doing social hobbies. Along the lines of like what Elise was saying before. And then in terms of finding hobbies, I think just be open minded. Like if someone invites you to do something that you've never done before, say yes to it. If, if you see something that seems interesting, check it out. You know, just try a bunch of things. I will say though, and I think someone sort of asked about this as well. I do see some of my friends who are trying out hobbies and before, like, before they even really get into them, they're buying a ton of. Yeah, and I think there's, there's like real sort of like acquisition creep when it comes to hobbies. I don't have that personality, but my husband does. And so one of his other hobbies is golf. And back when he was working and had more money, like he was buying so much golf stuff all the time, like clubs and towels and head covers and like just so much stuff. And listen, it's endless. And meanwhile, I've been using the same tennis racket for like three years. Like, I just don't care, you know, I'm not outfit story.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

What about outfits?

[Dory Shafrir]

I, you know, I found like some very specific types of clothing that I like to wear and I have those. And that's, that's like kind of it. I did an interview with the Strategist a few months ago where I described my tennis style as beekeeper because I like to be like fully covered up.

[Elise Hu]

I can attest to this.

[Dory Shafrir]

I don't, unfortunately, there's just not that much cute tennis wear that is also very sun protective. So that aspect is also not really a thing for me. I am someone who would rather spend money on a couple clinic or a lesson than buying more stuff. But I have seen this happen with friends who are like, I'm getting into X and like, they turn around and they've spent like hundreds of dollars on equipment or, you know, whatever, and then, you know, a month later they're like, oh, yeah, I'm not that into that anymore. So I would say if you know you have these tendencies, just like, try to be mindful of it. And for most hobbies, you don't need to go all in right away and buy like all the stuff.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

No, I, I see this all the time actually in the dahlia groups where someone like grows one dahlia and then the next year they grow 80. And to be fair, I went, I went from like 12 to like 300, but I was working with another person. But I feel like this is like a complete, this is a really younger Gen X millennial habit of like, here's the thing I want to do. I don't have the time to learn how to do it or to like, you know, like, they can't. It's really hard to carve out the space to like go to the class and rent the stuff and like return the stuff.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

And so the easiest thing, even though it costs money, the easiest thing is to press a button and to buy the stuff.

[Dory Shafrir]

I think that's such a good point.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yeah. And then you feel bad. It makes you feel shame.

[Dory Shafrir]

It's really, it's really hard. And I think it's really hard to like realize that it's happening because you're kind of buying like one thing at a time. And then you turn around and you're like, oh, like my whole living room is now filled with like, my garage.

[Elise Hu]

Is full of hockey gear.

[Dory Shafrir]

What am I gonna do with these? Yeah. And my husband also has ADHD and is, you know, gets hyper fixated on stuff. And so I think that that is also just like, it's just again, it's just like something to be aware of if you're like, I'm gonna get into knitting and you turn around and you're ordering, you know, hundred dollar skeins of yarn and it's just like, what is happening? So when I say like, try out a bunch of things, I think just like you, you can dabble without going dabble right away.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Well, and I'm glad that you, you brought up the ADHD component, because this is something I see a lot from readers is either people who have come to terms with it and been like, I'm a dabbler and I love it and I feel no shame about it. And I go from thing to thing. I try not to buy as much, but, like, I like being really into something for one month and then not being into that thing anymore. But just, like, see it in yourself and know that, like, you can put up some guardrails around it. Like, I should take that class and borrow some stuff. And the other thing is that hobbyists love to share stuff.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah. Yes, they do.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Like, they want to share information. They want someone to just, like, talk about it with all the time. And they like, oh, yeah, I have an extra tennis racket. Or like, I have an extra hori hori. If you want to garden with me, like, come over, let's do it. You know, if you want to get into something and you see someone in your life who does it, chances are so high that they want to talk to you about it and show you how to do it, but have been like, have. Have tried to, like, dampen their. Their light so that they're not annoying other people about talking about that thing all the time. So we talked about dabbling. What about free hobbies?

[Elise Hu]

A lot of free hobbies you can kind of just pick up and do for yourselves. Right. Like, if cooking is a hobby, I mean, I guess you have to get. This is not completely free of shopping a little bit, but there's things that, you know, you don't have to take a class for or attend a group for. Where does your mind go on this one?

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Well, I was just thinking this person who said, like, they love exploring new neighborhoods. That sounds like someone who is, like, super curious about, like, finding new things. Like, there are probably, like, city tours or if you go to the Historical Society, they're constantly doing walking tours of different places. Like, and you're going to meet weirdos there who are your same strain of weirdo, like, and are going to like, that sort of thing. Yeah, The Historical Society just generally is a trove of amazing hobbyists.

[Elise Hu]

The Audubon, they. They do free tours or free hikes, you know, especially for birders. But, like, not necessarily. You don't have to be a birder to go on any of the Free Audubon walk.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yeah, exactly. Like, anything that's observational, I think is a great way to. To get started and, and then you can get like further down that route in terms of like, oh, I want to learn a lot more about it. I'm gonna check out this book from the library. Or like, if you have like a quilter's guild or a crafter's guild, they often have stuff that you can rent.

[Unidentified Short Interjections]

Right.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Or you can come into them and use it. Like, Melody, didn't you just go in and use like the big arm quilting thing? Tell me about that.

[Melody Rowell]

Yeah, I did operator training for the longarm quilting machine at this place in Kansas City. And so now I can finish my own quilts and. But I, I mean I still have to pay money to rent the machine.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Right.

[Melody Rowell]

But also, don't ask me how much money I've spent on this new quilting hobby.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

But it's sustainable. You're gonna quilt for the rest of your life, Melody. Yeah, yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

I also, I also just want to encourage people to look into what their city, recreation department, parks and rec departments offer. I know, you know, in la there's a ton of classes that are really inexpensive that you can take and try things out, whether it's like sports or knitting or, you know, various other things.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

And if you're, if you're a senior, there's even more stuff and a lot of it is free. But yeah, I think that, that, that is one avenue to explore the other. You were talking about craft guilds, but I know at least in la, the public library has a lot of like tools and other things you can check out that are often very expensive. I saw someone post on TikTok that they let you at the LA Public Library you can print out on their like very high quality printer. They, they allow you to print out a poster size print one a week. You can do that for free.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Wow.

[Dory Shafrir]

So like there's all this sort of weird stuff that you can just kind of look into and a lot of it is very low cost or free.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yeah. Also if again bringing up if they someone in your life is really into a hobby, like they have gear, they have stuff that they would love, like light you also use.

[Elise Hu]

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[Unidentified Short Interjections]

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[Anne Helen Peterson]

Next question We've touched on this a little bit with like making something Instagrammable, but I want to talk more about the larger scheme. So this comes from Kristen how do you balance participating in your hobby and.

[Dory Shafrir]

Wanting to share it without being too online about it? I wish my Instagram was purely friends, joys and hobbies along with accounts related to my own that I found because I love seeing other folks hobby. It never annoys me or is too much and I want to share my own. And also staying present to do the hobby requires not being on my phone.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Ugh so much here. What's your first thought?

[Dory Shafrir]

Thoughts My first thought is don't feel inhibited about posting constantly about your hobby.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Dory started a newsletter about it.

[Dory Shafrir]

I mean I just sort of feel like, if, if you are enjoying it and it feels like something you want to share, not everyone wants to share it. If you want to share it, go ahead. I think it's a really good way to find community. I've had so many people message me and be like, oh, my God, I'm also on this journey, like, people I never have known. And that just felt really cool. And I will also say I've had people ask if I'm going to monetize my tennis newsletter. And I have just been like, I know, like, you know, I just, I, I can't. That sort of feels like taking it to a place that I, I don't know. And maybe I, A few years down the road I will be like, yes, I will do this. But right now that just feels like adding a layer of stress to it that will ultimately not be worth it.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

And really, I think intersects with a lot of the conversations we're having about that need to monetize. I mean, before, like, buzzfeed, where Dory and I used to work together, before buzzfeed started falling apart, I really resisted monetizing my newsletter because it was a place where I felt like I could write if I felt like it and I didn't have to write. It was a place where I could write without obligation. And I eventually had to find like a different place where I could find, have a full time job and had to monetize it. But for years I resisted that poll precisely because it changed the character of my relationship to it, if that makes sense. I love the point about being a beacon. Like, if you want to post about it, post about it. People cannot watch your stories as much and then like, they won't show up for them. Whatever, who cares?

[Dory Shafrir]

Totally, totally. And if a few people decide to mute you because of that, then like, okay, yeah, like that aspect of the question. I just sort of feel like, post as much as you want about it. The aspect of, like feeling like you're not present because you're always on your phone. I get that too. You know, it's interesting. There's. There's like a few women in LA who aren't on my team, but I know them just through like the league here. And they're very active on social media, especially Instagram, about tennis. They post, you know, every time they play, they post their outfits. And I think they do it because that brings them joy, you know, they really do enjoy posting about it constantly. And to me, I, like, I don't know, I just, I'm not like, always Taking pictures of our practices or our matches. Like, I posted a little bit from Nationals, but not like a ton. It's just like, for me that's. That's just not why I'm like, playing tennis. Yeah. But for other. And I post about it sometimes, obviously, but like, it's not all the time, but for some people it is and that's okay. And I actually enjoy looking at their content. Like, yeah, I like looking at their tennis content. I'm like, oh, this is like, this is cool. Oh, I'm glad you won your match. Like, you know, I'm just like, okay, this is fun. But like, not what I'm doing. And I do think they are a little bit more on their phones. Like, I've played matches against them and I've noticed immediately after they're like gathering the team for the team photo and like one of them has a tripod and like, it's very like, okay, this is what we're doing. And that's just not my vibe. But it can be other people's.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

I feel like it offers us some, some time for self reflection too, on how we want our relationship to presentation, self presentation, like all those things. It's just like an interesting reflection. The same way that posting your kids on. On Instagram is right. Or posting pictures of you and your partner, Whatever. I feel like I've reached an age where, like, as you said, Doris, I can see someone living their life and posting in a way that makes them happy. And it doesn't make me feel like I need to do that too.

[Dory Shafrir]

100%.

[Elise Hu]

Everyone has their own sweet spot on this. But I think the fact that the questioner is asking the question is great because you're reflecting on what your own values are, what your comfort level is, how performative you want to be, how present you want to be. Those are all valuable questions to ask.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yeah. I will say I created a second account on Instagram for the Dahlias because first of all, it's like a company now. We're self incorporated that is involves two other people. So like it needed to also involve these other people. And it's also like a business. Our goal is to make enough money so that we can go on vacation together.

[Dory Shafrir]

I love that.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

But I know it's not like none of us are. We all have other jobs. Like, it's not, you know, this is not our money making scheme. But sometimes people say to me, I wish that you had post the dahlias more in the main field. I don't like it when people bifurcate that part of, like, their lives into, like, another. I don't want to have to, like, follow five different accounts. Just like, I don't want. You know what I mean? And that made me think for a little bit, I was like, like, I will post more Dalia content to the main feed. I thought I was annoying people, but like you said, they can just now watch that. That's fine.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. You're an integrated human.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Live your life great. So we're gonna keep this conversation going for asking anything with some questions. Seeking specific advice about hobbies. This part of the show is just for paid subscribers, so if you want our thoughts on sticking with a new hobby, how to deal with all the stuff you accumulate during hobbies, or how to stop feeling guilty about taking time away from a hobby. Head over to patreon.com culturestudy and sign up today for us to wrap up. What is something? Like, what is your favorite kind of delight? Like, little moment of one of your hobbies that, like, keeps you coming back to it.

[Elise Hu]

It's the same thing that I want on my tombstone, which is all her friends became friends.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yeah, that's really good.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Dory, what about you?

[Dory Shafrir]

I think. I think it is, like, realizing that I've gotten better, you know, like, there's no real goal, but my original thought of, like, oh, this would actually be more fun if I were just like, a little bit better. And then being like, oh, I got a little better.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

That'S really satisfying.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Yeah, totally.

[Dory Shafrir]

I.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

That's me and running for sure. And like, I've written about this a little bit, but also having that feeling around, something to do with, like, athleticism and your body when you're in your 40s. Like, that feels awesome.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, it's really good for staving off dementia too.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

No, Like, I just. I was never an athlete. Like, I never thought of myself as an athlete. And like, to. To have something that, like that component in your life is really awesome.

[Dory Shafrir]

Totally.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Sometimes when I wake up in the middle of the night and I can't fall asleep, like, the way that I self soothe myself back as I think about, like, my favorite dahlia, just like a row of them. Like, I just think about the bloom and that's so cheesy. But, like, there's something. I'm like, okay, I'm. My mind is fixating on something that feels, like, purely calming to me, that is very away from my work and that allows me to escape from those intrusive thoughts, which are usually about work stuff, for a moment. So that's one of my favorite things. Falling asleep to the image of my favorite.

[Elise Hu]

You have a visualization.

[Unidentified Short Interjections]

Yeah.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Thank you so much for joining me. If people want to find more from Forever35, where can they find you on the Internet?

[Elise Hu]

You can find us everywhere. You listen to podcasts and on our [e-mail] and wait, Dory, I would be.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Remiss if we didn't also mention your tennis sub stack, because that's an opportunity.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah, my tennis sub stack is courtdate.substack.com it is published, you know, intermittently when the. When the mood strikes me.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

But a great hobby newsletter, right?

[Dory Shafrir]

A great hobby newsletter. Exactly.

[Elise Hu]

You're gonna get it when you get it.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah, you'll get it when you get it. Okay.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Thanks for listening to the Culture Study Podcast. Be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast podcast because we have so many great episodes in the works and I promise you don't want to miss any of them. If you want to suggest a topic, ask a question about the culture that surrounds you or submit a question for our subscriber only advice time segment, go to our google [e-mail] culturecitypod or check the show notes for a link. And if you want to support the show and get bonus content, head to patreon.com culturestudy it's 5 bucks a month or $50 a year and you'll get ad free episodes, an exclusive advice time segment, and weekly discussion threads for each episode. The Culture Study Podcast is produced by me, Anne Helen Peterson and Melody Rowell. Our music is by Poddington Bear. You can find me on Instagram at Anne Helen Peterson, melodylodius47 and the show at Culture Study Pod. Foreign.

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[Dory Shafrir]

Say hello to Mia.

[Unidentified Short Interjections]

Hey there.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

Mia runs a pet grooming service in Chicago.

[Dory Shafrir]

But getting new clients was rough until.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

I started using Acast. I recorded my ad, targeted pet owners in the area and let ACAST do the rest. Now people all over the city know about my grooming services. Mia's business is looking sharp.

[Dory Shafrir]

What's your secret for happy pets and happy clients? A fresh cut, a friendly vibe and.

[Anne Helen Peterson]

A well placed podcast ad. Get the word out about your business through Acast. Visit go acast.com advertise to get started.