Episode 389: Strategy, Spirituality, and Space with Hillary Power

Summary

Forever35, Episode 389: Strategy, Spirituality, and Space with Hillary Power

Release Date: February 16, 2026
Hosts: Doree Shafrir & Elise Hu
Guest: Hillary Power, Business Doula and Founder of River Day

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Doree and Elise dive into the intersection of strategy, spirituality, and self-care with guest Hillary Power, a former corporate leader and current "business doula." The conversation explores Hillary’s unique approach to consulting that fuses corporate strategy with holistic, spiritual support—plus the transformative power of intentionally designed environments and women’s circles. The episode also offers candid discussions on embracing career transitions, finding fulfillment, and building authentic connections within one’s community.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Catching Up: Book Events and Personal Stories

Timestamps: 01:06–09:00

• Doree shares her recent experience moderating at a book event for her agent, Aaliyah Hannah Habib, author of Take it From Me: An Agent’s Guide to Building a Nonfiction Writing Career from Scratch.

  • She highlights the book’s demystification of publishing, providing real pitches and behind-the-scenes insight.
  • Quote (03:48) Doree: "Her whole thing is... she wants to sort of demystify it for people, whether they want to get into publishing or being an agent or they want to write a book or whatever."

• Elise recounts attending a “fertility book party” with her husband Rob, where he turned out to be the only male guest and unexpectedly encountered a gathering largely composed of his ex-girlfriends.

  • Adds humor and camaraderie to the podcast’s opening banter.
  • Quote (07:12) Elise: "And there is no other man there. He is the only male guest... basically we were at this party that was a bunch of Rob's exes."

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2. Introducing Hillary Power: From Corporate to "Business Doula"

Timestamps: 09:00–12:05

• Doree formally introduces Hillary Power: Experienced in building and scaling global marketing departments, now blending business mentoring and spirituality.
• Hillary’s business, River Day, was inspired by the middle names of her children.

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3. Self-Care as Mindset and Environment

Timestamps: 12:05–14:35

• Hillary describes her self-care practice:
  • Focus on making every environment feel as good as possible, even when tasks are mundane.
  • It’s not just about external ambiance but engaging with uncomfortable feelings compassionately.
  • Quote (12:24) Hillary: "A self-care practice that’s really kind of like a mindset... how can I make every environment feel as good as possible to me?"

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4. Hillary & Doree: Meeting Through Work and Shared Dating Escapades

Timestamps: 14:36–17:24

• The hosts and Hillary reminisce about meeting at BuzzFeed during the "early Tinder" era.
  • A shared romantic connection led to “walls coming down” in their budding friendship.
  • Quote (15:39) Doree: "'Come to my office...’ because you were like, 'Do you know this person?' And I was like, 'Yes, I know him. I lived with him.'"

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5. Hillary’s Career Shift: From Corporate Tech to Holistic Consulting

Timestamps: 17:55–23:17

• Laid off 10 days after having her second child, Hillary reflects on the relief and fear of career disruption.
  • She leaned into a long-standing spiritual practice, began leading women’s circles, and combined her business expertise with mentorship and coaching.
  • Quote (18:27) Hillary: "I was really scared... but I was also a little bit relieved. I was like, oh, don’t have to go back to this, but I have to make money and I want to do something interesting and meaningful."
• She combines strategy consulting and spiritual support, often transitioning seamlessly between clients' professional and personal challenges.

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6. Demystifying “Business Doula” Work

Timestamps: 23:17–28:14

• Hillary on her holistic approach:
  • Her work isn’t about predetermined deliverables but helping clients feel “more embodied in their lives.”
  • The role involves holding space, uncovering desires and values, and facilitating authentic alignment instead of giving prescriptive advice.
  • Quote (25:11) Hillary: "People want to feel more embodied in their lives... I want you to feel like you in the next chapter."
• Common client themes:
  • Leveling up at work, finding balance, navigating transitions from large companies to small businesses, and battling imposter syndrome.
  • Energy, authenticity, and self-belief are core to successful leadership and decision-making.

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7. Navigating Career Change & Burnout

Timestamps: 31:37–33:03

• Advice for listeners facing crossroads:
  • Instead of making dramatic, binary changes, integrate elements of curiosity into your current life and see what resonates.
  • Quote (31:37) Hillary: "Rather than doing that in abstract, wholesale, how can you begin to integrate that thing you’re curious about in your life as it exists right now..."

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8. Women’s Circles: Sacred Spaces for Connection

Timestamps: 33:04–37:03

• Hillary shares her journey with women's circles:
  • Discovered by accident; became a profound space for vulnerability, honesty, and being seen.
  • The circle is a confidential, sacred space distinct from performative or competitive social dynamics.
  • Quote (33:25) Hillary: "Literally, women sitting in a circle, speaking their truth, speaking openly and honestly, and oftentimes quite vulnerably from their heart space."
• Elise compares women’s circles to AA/NA traditions, highlighting their transformative “equalizing” nature.

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9. The Power of Women’s Connection

Timestamps: 37:03–38:01

• On the importance of gendered spaces:
  • Hillary: “Being a woman is so cool... there is something so potent and powerful about women connecting with themselves and connecting with each other.”
  • She reflects on how these circles counteract social divisions among women.

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10. Practical Advice for Aspiring Consultants

Timestamps: 38:01–39:32

• Hillary’s guidance:
  • Start with your existing network; be honest about your journey’s newness.
  • Hold outcomes lightly—don’t take refusal personally.
  • Quote (38:21) Hillary: "You have a whole vibrant life full of people who are probably the most likely people to hire you... Start exactly where I am—a real theme for me..."

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11. Closing Inspiration: “Start Close In” by David Whyte

Timestamps: 39:32–41:09

• Hillary reads the poem “Start Close In,” emphasizing incremental, personal steps in transformative journeys.
• The poem becomes a metaphor for both career and personal change.
• Quote (40:47) Elise: "That notion that the very first step is the one that you most don’t want to take."

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12. Hillary’s Offerings & How to Connect

Timestamps: 41:24–42:16

• Ways to engage with Hillary:
  • Website: riverdayprojects.com
  • Offers: 1-on-1 sessions, workshops, retreats, and upcoming collaborative events (e.g., a flower essence retreat for spring).

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Memorable Quotes

• Hillary: "A self-care practice that’s really kind of like a mindset... how can I make every environment feel as good as possible to me?" (12:24)
• Doree: "Her whole thing is... she wants to sort of demystify it for people, whether they want to get into publishing or being an agent or they want to write a book or whatever." (03:48)
• Hillary: "I always say no deliverables because it's not like we're going to create a deck and then you're going to be done." (25:11)
• Hillary (on Women’s Circles): "It's a place to see and be seen... at the psyche level." (35:12)
• Elise: "That notion that the very first step is the one that you most don't want to take." (40:47)
• Hillary: "Start exactly where I am, a real theme for me, and turning toward people that I know who like, know me, who love me." (38:21)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:06–09:00: Catch-up stories, including book events and humorous take on a “fertility book party”
• 09:00–12:05: Introducing Hillary, her background, and River Day
• 12:05–14:35: Hillary’s self-care mindset and approach to environment
• 14:36–17:24: Early friendship, shared work, and the role of in-person connection
• 17:55–23:17: Hillary’s career transformation and the origins of her “business doula” role
• 23:17–28:14: The process and themes of Hillary’s work with clients
• 31:37–33:03: Advice for those in career transition or facing burnout
• 33:04–38:01: The structure and impact of women’s circles
• 38:01–39:32: Practical advice for starting a consulting or coaching business
• 39:32–41:09: “Start Close In” poem and its relevance
• 41:24–42:16: How to connect with Hillary and her upcoming offerings

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Tone & Style

• Warm, candid, and supportive, with moments of gentle humor and friendly banter.
• The conversation moves fluidly between practical advice, personal anecdotes, and reflective thought—embodying the nuanced self-awareness Forever35 is known for.

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Perfect For Listeners Who...

• Are contemplating a career change or seeking fulfillment beyond traditional success markers
• Appreciate a blend of strategic business insights with spiritual and emotional intelligence
• Value women’s communities and safe spaces for vulnerability
• Want actionable, authentic advice for launching their own business or consulting

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Episode closing:
The hosts share their personal intentions for the coming week, tying back to self-care routines, with lightheartedness and mutual support—a signature Forever35 touch.

Transcript

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[Elise Hu]

Did I talk too much? Can I just let it go?

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[Dori Shafrier]

Let's talk about what's going on.

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[Dori Shafrier]

Hello and welcome to Forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Dory Shafrier.

[Elise Hu]

And I'm Elise Hu. And we're just two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.

[Dori Shafrier]

And today we have a conversation with one of my, like, oldest LA friends.

[Elise Hu]

Okay.

[Dori Shafrier]

Like, someone who. Who I met pretty soon after moving to la. I, um. And we've been friends ever since. We worked together at BuzzFeed. That was how we met. And we have a very funny story about. Yeah, about a mutual romantic man. Man. Romantic man. So stay tuned for that. It's with my friend Hillary Power, who is a business doula. She's, like, carved out this interesting little niche. It's basically consulting, but it's with a more sort spiritual and like, holistic. Holistic vibe.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Dori Shafrier]

So it's. It's pretty interesting. So. So stay tuned for that.

[Elise Hu]

But we haven't talked for a few days, so there's a lot to catch up on. First thing I want to know is how was the book event?

[Dori Shafrier]

So my literary agent, who I'm obsessed with, is named Aaliyah Hannah Habib. She is an agent at the Gurner Company, and she wrote a book called Take it from Me, An Agent's Guide to Building a Nonfiction Writing Career from Scratch. I would describe it as a sort of a combo memoir because she, you know, she talks a lot about her own career, but then also, like, a is a real how to guide. Like, that's great. She has real pitches that some of her clients sent to, like, the New York Times Magazine to get assignments because there's a big part of the first couple chapters are really devoted to, like, how to pitch magazines and newspapers and other outlets to, like, build your portfolio. If you've never published anything. Her point is, like, if you've never published anything, it is probably unrealistic. Unless you are, like, a Celebrity to just query an agent with your nonfiction book and get a book deal. She's saying, like, you have to. If your book is about, let's say, you know, the Korean beauty industry.

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[Elise Hu]

It behooves you hypothetically.

[Dori Shafrier]

Let's just say hypothetically, it like, behooves you to become known as someone who writes about the Korean beauty industry. So she has a real step by step guide about how to do that. Then she has guides to how to query an agent. She also talks a lot about what happens when your book goes out on submission to publishers. Like, really gets into the nitty gritty.

[Elise Hu]

I wish I knew what happened. Yeah. Because it's like a black box to me.

[Dori Shafrier]

Yes, I know. I also was like, ooh, oh, this is good information for me to have. And, you know, I've sold a couple books. Like, she, she shows, like, sample shows, emails that she sends to publishers when a book is going to go to auction. Like, there's so much behind the scenes stuff. And her whole thing is like, you know, she came from, like a small. She came from Pennsylvania. Her parents were not in publishing. She knew nothing about this world. And she wants to sort of like demystify it for people, whether they want to get into publishing or being an agent or they want to write a book or whatever.

[Elise Hu]

So don't you wish this existed before we submitted nonfiction book proposals? Yes, Yes, I wish this was around, you know, 10 years ago.

[Dori Shafrier]

It is. It is such a great book. So I got to talk with her. I was the person, like, in conversation with her, and it was super fun. I got the sweetest note from one of her fellow agents who we had gone out to dinner with beforehand. She texted me and she said, you were so great last night. It's hard to strike that balance between making it feel like an intimate conversation and also consistently bringing it back to the book. But you nailed it. It was an incredibly warm, generous talk that also managed to sell the shit out of the book. Bravo. Even though even the bookseller at Skylight Books, which is where did it, she was like, she said to me after, she was like, I wasn't gonna read this book. Like, it sounded kind of like not relevant to me. But you really made it sound interesting. I was like, it is interesting. It's really interesting.

[Elise Hu]

I'm gonna smash that buy button on bookshop.org button.

[Dori Shafrier]

Yes, exactly. So if you're at all curious about. Even if you're like, not going to sell a book, but you're like, curious about how publishing works, it's a really interesting. Yeah, yeah, it's a really interesting, like, again, like, behind the scenes look. So, yes, take it from me, an agent's guide to building a nonfiction writing career from scratch. And I should also mention that Aaliyah has a really great substack called delivery and acceptance, where she interviews people from all over publishing. And it's, like, related to her book, but it's not the same material as her book. So.

[Elise Hu]

Okay.

[Dori Shafrier]

Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

Fantastic.

[Dori Shafrier]

Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

As you were at that book event. I was at a competing book event. Not really. I know. I was gonna say it wasn't at a bookstore and it was more of a book party, but it was really funny. I have to tell you the backstory because we got invited by Rob's friend Rebecca, who I think was at Penn with him at the same time, and I knew nothing about it. He's like, do you want to go to this book event? And then he sent me the flyer, and the book is own your own fertility, and it's about freezing your eggs, which a little late for me. Late for me. And so anyway, I thought it was sort of, like, curious that Rob was invited to an own your own fertility book event.

[Dori Shafrier]

Yes.

[Elise Hu]

But he was like, you want to come to this? I'm like, okay, whatever. He's like, it's my old friend Rebecca. And he's like, also, I dated Rebecca. Just a heads up. And I'm like, okay, that's cool. Because, you know, he. He had a long time before he got married, so he's dated a lot of people. And then as we're walking up to the house, he's like, I think Jamie's coming too. Just a heads up. I dated her too. And I was like, okay.

[Hillary Power]

Oh, my God.

[Elise Hu]

And then we walk in, and there is no other man there. He is the only male guest. Yes, it was all women at this book party, and except for the host. You know, the host was her brother in law, and so her brother in law and his wife were hosting it at his home. So he was there, you know, because he lived there. But among the 50 women gathered, Rob was the only male guest. And Rebecca, the author, comes up and she's, like, really excited to see him, and la, la, la. And we end up having a great time. The third guy there besides the host, Rob. And Rob was the bartender who I really liked. And so I am now gonna hire him for events. I got his card. I'm like, so that was a great takeaway. Loved the bartender, Dominic. I texted him today. In fact, I was like, hey, It's Elise from last week. And he was like, elise, Tito's in tonic. And I'm like, yes, that's right. That is my dream.

[Dori Shafrier]

He's a good bartender.

[Elise Hu]

I can see him. Yeah, I could tell. And so he was the third dude. And book talk happens. Then there's a bunch of mingling and food. La, la, la, la. We were there for a while and we were walking out the code of the story. He's like, oh, he's. Rob goes, oh, and also this other woman, I dated her too. And a fourth woman dated her too.

[Dori Shafrier]

Who didn't? Rob dating.

[Elise Hu]

So basically we were at this party that was a bunch of Rob's exes.

[Dori Shafrier]

Rob's exes. Oh, my gosh.

[Elise Hu]

All my exes live in not Texas.

[Dori Shafrier]

Yeah.

[Hillary Power]

Wow.

[Dori Shafrier]

Wow, wow, wow.

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All right.

[Dori Shafrier]

Hey. Well, Elise, let us formally introduce Hillary. Hillary Power is a business doula and the founder of her company, River Day. She combines deep human connection and passion for supporting authentic personal growth with more than a decade of experience building and scaling global social marketing departments at some of the biggest brands in the world and launching first of their kind digital creative ventures. She lives in Los Angeles with her husband and two children whose middle names are river and Day.

[Elise Hu]

Ah, it all makes sense.

[Hillary Power]

Yes.

[Dori Shafrier]

And before we get to Hillary, just a reminder that you can Visit our website, forever35podcast.com. We have links there to everything we mention on the show. We are on Instagram @forever35 podcast. Our Patreon is at patreon.com forever35. We do our weekly casual chats, our monthly pop culture episodes. We have a chat going on in the Patreon app. We have forever 35 questionnaires. We have ad free episodes. We have it all. So check that [e-mail] forever35. Our favorite products are at Shopmy US Forever 35. And you can call or text us at 781-591-0390 and email [e-mail] and we will be right back with Hillary.

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[Dori Shafrier]

Hillary welcome to Forever 35. So nice. Thank you so much. We start off by asking all of our guests about a self care practice that they have, which I feel like for you especially is like, like I feel like you must have a million of them. So I don't know, choose your favorite.

[Hillary Power]

I do have a million. I think that a self care practice that's really kind of like a mindset for me is kind of this question of how can I make every environment feel as good as possible to me. So that's not to say that everything's like really enjoyable all of the time, but if I'm cooking dinner, like how can I make the light in the kitchen beautiful and turn on songs that make me feel a certain way and just like really support the moment that I'm in. And I feel like that requires like an element of slowing down and really being like, what is this moment? What do I want in this moment? But that's a framework that I've been working with for like the past year and a half.

[Elise Hu]

So do you think that's like just for your physical spaces or does it expand beyond a physical space?

[Hillary Power]

Right.

[Elise Hu]

And lighting and the mood of a place. Are you able to bring that sense of trying to make an environment pleasant in other ways?

[Hillary Power]

What a cool question. I think that yes, it requires a level of physical presence and also the capacity to be with what is. Whether that is a sensation that's difficult or unpleasant. But rather than to say like this is not allowed to turn towards it and say like, oh, how do I tend to this feeling that's uncomfortable or how Do I make space in my experience and kind of locate things moving through me instead of just. Yeah, like, the lighting has to be really good or the tea has to be amazing. Right.

[Dori Shafrier]

I love to hear you say that, because I do feel like anytime I've been in an environment that is, like, your environment, it is a really, like, welcoming and lovely environment. And I should say here that Hillary and I met when we both worked at buzzfeed.

[Elise Hu]

Okay.

[Dori Shafrier]

We were on different teams, but Hillary just, like, has a magnetic personality, and we became friends.

[Hillary Power]

Well, should we say how we actually.

[Elise Hu]

Because this is a podcast, so, yes.

[Hillary Power]

Dori and I were both single when we met, and this was the era of early Tinder, where it was really just like, Tinder and OkCupid were the only online dating options available. And I'll just speak for myself and say that I was having a lot of fun with that newly open channel and doing a lot of dating. And I dated a series of men who were all like, oh, you work at BuzzFeed. Do you know Dory? And so the first time that I met Dory, I was like, hey, do you know this person? Or this person or this person? And Dory saying this in a very casual way, like, Hillary is magnetic. Dory was like, the boss. And I said, dory, do you know this person? And she was like, come to my office. Do you remember that?

[Dori Shafrier]

And she's like, having the conversation with you in my office because you were.

[Hillary Power]

Like, get in my office.

[Elise Hu]

Whoa.

[Dori Shafrier]

And.

[Hillary Power]

I was like, well, this guy, like, I went out with him a few times. I don't really think it's for me. And Dory was like, oh, that he.

[Dori Shafrier]

No, And. And the way you said it was like, he said he knew you.

[Hillary Power]

Yeah. Dory was like, I lived with him. He was my partner for many years.

[Elise Hu]

Who?

[Dori Shafrier]

Oh. And I was like, yeah, I know him. Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

The word no is doing a lot of work there.

[Hillary Power]

Yeah. And so I feel like the walls really came down between us in that moment.

[Dori Shafrier]

And we went to an event. We went to an event, like, I don't know, not long after that, and saw him.

[Hillary Power]

Oh, my gosh.

[Elise Hu]

Both of you.

[Hillary Power]

I don't remember that, but I believe it.

[Dori Shafrier]

And I just remember we were both like, hey.

[Hillary Power]

That'S so funny. It must have been a bigger deal for you, because I was like, I was just, like, a random guy.

[Dori Shafrier]

Well, I was also like, you know, there's no need to go into, like, great and gory detail. But, like, you could at least be like, yes, she's my Ex girlfriend. But to be like, yeah, I know her. It's like, oh, we, like, met one time. Yeah. I was like, wow, right?

[Hillary Power]

I'm so sorry.

[Elise Hu]

Goodbye.

[Dori Shafrier]

No, don't be sorry. Yeah. And then we kind of shared our dating escapades.

[Hillary Power]

Oh. In great detail.

[Dori Shafrier]

In great detail with each other. It was. Yes, it was. It was really bonding with, like, the whole shift to remote work. I feel like people aren't making work friends in the same way that they used to. Like, I don't know that we would have bonded, like, over slack. You know what I mean?

[Hillary Power]

You wouldn't be like, get into my. Yeah, exactly. Get into my DMs and we'll have this, like, recorded history of this man.

[Dori Shafrier]

Or.

[Elise Hu]

It's really hard to be able to hang out because some of the people I've become close with on slack from Remote Work are in New York or San Francisco or Detroit, you know, so the fact that you were both in a physical space together, too, I think makes a difference.

[Hillary Power]

And then, like, the heyday of that physical space, like fresh pressed juice every morning, like, it was so funny. Yeah.

[Dori Shafrier]

Let's talk about how you got to where you are today, because right now you are a business doula. And I remember standing in your kitchen when you had just had a baby and you had been laid off, and you were kind of like, I. I don't really know what I'm doing. Cut to now you fully know what you're doing and you have this, like, thriving career and business. So walk all of us through just like, what that process was to get there.

[Hillary Power]

So I was laid off 10 days after having my second child, which was not ideal, but also something I don't think I would have ever had the courage to leave. I was working at a big tech company with a lot of theoretical stability and a huge paycheck and a certain kind of power or confidence that came with that role. And I didn't love the work, but I love some of the things that the work provided. And I was really scared when I got laid off, but I was also a little bit relieved. I was like, oh, don't have to go back to this, but I have to make money and I want to do something interesting and fulfilling and meaningful. And for a while, I had been walking a pretty spiritual path and trying to do a lot of healing work within myself and, you know, engage with life as the best version of me that I could. And I had done a bunch of facilitator trainings and been, you know, studying in this capacity As a hobby for probably about seven years at that point. Point. So I was like, okay, I hear you, universe. If there's ever a time to try this, I guess it's now. So in one part of my life, I was really trying a lot of hosting women's circles for the first time and kind of cultivating those spaces within my life. And then on the other hand, I had to make money. And I was like, I can't charge Google level salary fees for these women's circles. I'm just kind of figuring out. So I started doing a lot of consulting work for my friends and leaders in the space that I knew the systems they were working in. I had a lot of compassion for the pace and demands of their jobs. And I kind of became this ghostwriter, strategies for people that I knew and loved. And so I started doing that to kind of pay the bills. And then one of my closest friends said, I have somebody who needs mentorship. You actually know more about what she does than I do. She runs a department. She's amazing, and we want to gift her some coaching so that she can have what she needs to level up. And also she's having a lot going on personally. So can you bring in some of your spiritual stuff and support her through all of this? And it worked so well for her. It worked so well for me. It worked so well for their business. So I ended up doing several women at that business. And that's how this work began.

[Elise Hu]

That's awesome. And when you say that you were writing strategy at the beginning, what does that mean? Like, can you maybe.

[Hillary Power]

Oh yeah.

[Elise Hu]

Because I. I've never really worked in a formal business setting, so I'm sort of like, what does it mean to write strategy?

[Hillary Power]

Oh, great question. In my case, what it meant was creating. So the systems that I worked in, the tech companies that I worked in, giant multinational tech companies, they have very particular systems of conveying ideas and getting buy in for those ideas. So a big part of the work is not only deciding what to do, creating that strategy, but also formatting that strategy in a very particular way that allows for buy in from other department heads, finance, and all the people required to kind of internally sign off on a strategy. So having been in those systems, I really understood not just like how the work needs to go for those teams, but how to get the appropriate buy in from stakeholders within the company. And that's what I mean when I talk about writing strategy.

[Elise Hu]

Got it. And now that you are in this sort of business doula space and just to Be clear. So you kind of call yourself a business doula and not specifically like a more common term like executive coach or therapist or something, because it really combines various disciplines. Is that, is that okay? I just want to make sure that I'm capturing that correctly. Tell us, like, what you have learned in working with so many people at this time, this frenzied and chaotic time that our listeners might be able to take with them or get out of sort of your lessons, even if they're not working with you directly.

[Hillary Power]

Well, something that I've learned is that a lot of people feel really tender about exploring questions that are big and important that they don't know the answer to. So even if they're in a really beautiful partnership that's supportive or have incredible mentors or wonderful friends, there's still something about understanding your desires and naming them out loud that can be really overwhelming.

[Elise Hu]

Are there certain questions that you have people start with to better understand their desires or where they want to go directionally?

[Hillary Power]

Yeah. So I always say that I meet people exactly where they are, which I think sounds to some people condescending, but to me is like quite the opposite. It's like, let's take all that you're dealing with and find out exactly where you are. Because naming and being in the space you're occupying now requires a level of honesty and vulnerability and accountability that I think a lot of people maybe are like always rushing towards where they want to go or what's not working. But to just like really say, this is where I am is where I begin. And then I think a lot of values, work can be important to say, okay, let's sit down and think about what you value at this moment in your life and how do we shape a future where those values are not just on a piece of paper, but they're live and they're reflected back to you in real time every day.

[Dori Shafrier]

Can I ask, what do people go into working with you? Like, what do they want to get out of it, I guess is what I'm asking. Like, do they set goals? Is it sort of open ended? Like, what is kind of the desired outcome?

[Hillary Power]

I always say no deliverables because it's not like we're going to create a deck and then you're going to be done. I think that people want to feel more embodied in their lives and in their own experience of work or their relationship. A lot of things begin in one place. Like somebody's like, oh, I have all these issues with my job, and then all of a sudden we're talking about their childhood and their sex life and, you know, their body and their relationships and their children. And I think why the term doula is so important and resonant with me is because I. I really try and say, like, this is your life, this is your career, this is your journey. I want you to feel like you in the next chapter of it. And so it's not about me saying this is what it should look like. It's about me holding space and creating conditions for somebody to arrive into their life in a way that feels truly authentic and aligned with them.

[Dori Shafrier]

So what are some of the things that people want to get out of it? Like, can you. Can you think without obviously, like, getting too specific, but someone who came to you for business, Doula Services, why did they start a company?

[Elise Hu]

Are they trying to decide whether to change jobs?

[Hillary Power]

Like, why would. Yeah, all of those things. Okay, so there have been people who are like, I want to level up at work, or I am running a business and I love this business. And the rest of my life has completely fallen off the rails because I'm so laser focused on this business. And that's not why I started my own business, things like that or, you know, I've had people who have shifted their careers from working with a big company into, you know, managing and building a smaller business that's their own and feeling really constricted in kind of like, oh, well, I'm used to everybody coming to me, and I'm used to having the big budget and how do I Show up after 30 years of a career where I was the one holding all the money and the resources and the talent? And how do I go externally in a way that feels really good to me and creates business? How do I go out and be in a role I've never been in and not feel like I'm an imposter? And I think so much of business and deal making is energy, and a lot of people want to read a book and close a deal and figure out a negotiation tactic. But I think there is a really important element of how do you show up and do you believe yourself? And I think that that's magnetic and really changes the trajectory of how leaders are able to create impact and influence.

[Dori Shafrier]

So we're just going to take a short break and we will be right back.

[Elise Hu]

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[Hillary Power]

Yeah, I love David White and his poem Start Close, in which I think offers a real invitation to not have to make such a binary decision overnight. But if you're considering something like a career shift or going back to school, I would say, rather than doing that in abstract, wholesale, how can you begin to integrate that thing that you're curious about in your life as it exists right now and respond to those feelings in real time? Because I think a lot of people have a fantasy about, oh, if I just quit my job and I moved to the woods, then things will be really simple and all my problems will be solved. But everywhere you go, there you are. Right. So it's a matter of how do you take the life that you're dreaming about and bring elements of that into your existing life and play with it and see, like, does this subject that I think I might want to go back to school for, like, what happens if I start reading books about it or listening to podcasts about it or engaging with those people? And then I think that's where real opportunities arise. And I think the more that you tend to those places, the more clear those decisions become inside yourself. Great.

[Elise Hu]

I like that.

[Dori Shafrier]

Can you talk a little bit more about the circles? I went to at least one, maybe. Maybe a couple. And I found them really moving. And I'd love to hear just. Or, like, have you tell our listeners what those look like and what they. And, like, how they've evolved as well.

[Hillary Power]

Yeah. So women's circles are a practice I found completely by accident. One time I went to Esalen on what I thought was going to be a yoga retreat, but ended up being a intensive workshop about connecting with the divine feminine, which I was there for, but surprised by. And a large part of that week was spent in women's circles. So literally, women sitting in a circle, speaking their truth, speaking openly and honestly, and oftentimes quite vulnerably from their heart space. And I was like, this is cool. This is magical. There's something happening in these spaces that's palpable and meaningful and that I was just really attracted to. So sort of, like, we were just speaking about. I was, like, working at a tech job in marketing at the time. I was not doing this, but I was like, I'm I'm curious, like, I want to be in more spaces like this. I want to see how other people kind of lead a space like this. And so I kind of started doing this as my hobby, which is the funny thing to, like, say as a hobby. But it really changed my perspective in, you know, what it meant to, like, show up. So I think when I talk about women's circles to people who are like, I don't get it. What is it? My answer is always like, it's a place to see and be seen. But not in the, like, CNBC world that we think of. When you usually hear that term club.

[Elise Hu]

Or a hot restaurant.

[Dori Shafrier]

Right.

[Hillary Power]

It's the opposite, I think. Right. Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

At the psyche level.

[Hillary Power]

And be seen, like, as a human being in this lifetime having difficult, beautiful, challenging, heart wrenching experiences. And I feel like I've sat in hundreds of circles at this point. There is something so cool about being in a space that's held as sacred, where everything is confidential and where people can just show up fully as they are. I think that especially in this time, like, there's so much thought and attention given into presentation and personal brand and all of those elements of how people can move through the world. And this is almost the opposite. It's like you don't know who anyone is. It doesn't matter who they are. And you see them as a human being having a human experience. And what I take always is just like the magic of how much we're all holding at any single time. And it really creates for me a sense of connection to each other, to ourselves. It is quite profound sometimes how much I can feel shifts happening internally in circles where I don't say a single word.

[Elise Hu]

Yep, yep. And what you're describing is very reminiscent of like the AA tradition, the NA tradition for those of us who have had addiction in our lives. You know, this is very similar to like just coming into a room and it could be a church basement or whatever, and everybody's sort of on the same level. You don't really know any. Who anybody is. In your case, this is gendered. You know, you're saying it's specifically women identifying. What do you feel like is powerful about that element of it?

[Hillary Power]

I think that women crave this connection. And in our society at least, there's so much that's sowing division among women and like, oh, this kind of parenting or this kind of exercise or whatever. Like, so many ways that women are pitted against each other. And for me, it's just like, oh my God, being a Woman is so cool. I'm sure there are many men that can sit around and have these kinds of experiences as well. And I do sometimes have co ed offering, but I think there is something so potent and powerful about women connecting with themselves and connecting with each other. That, that is really like a special part of being a woman. I don't know, it really taps me into like, oh, thank God. Thank God we get to do that. Yeah, very cool.

[Dori Shafrier]

What advice would you give someone who wants to kind of not do exactly what you do, but wants to like, be a consultant or, you know, kind of start their own because you started your own business, essentially. And so I'm curious from that perspective, what advice would you give people?

[Hillary Power]

Yeah, well, there's this idea out there, I think it's a Steve Chandler idea, that, that there are mythical clients, right. That like you think clients are. Are out there and they're not for you. And that you have a whole vibrant life full of people who are probably the most likely people to hire you. And I think that some people can feel really embarrassed or tentative about talking about the work that they do with the people that are. Are already in their lives and love them. But I found that starting with people I know and people who know me and just being really honest about, like, I'm starting this business, you're going to be one of my first clients, like, not pretending that I've been doing this for 20 years, but starting exactly where I am, a real theme for me, and turning towards people that I know who like, know me, who, who love me, who are like, I want to be around you. It's like, cool. Do you want do this work together? And then holding it really non personally if they say no.

[Elise Hu]

You mentioned that poem earlier. I'm wondering if you have it or you want to read it to us before we let you go.

[Hillary Power]

Okay, so this is. Start Close in by David White. Start close in. Don't take the second step or the third. Start with the first thing. Close in the step you don't want to take. Start with the ground, you know, the pale ground beneath your feet. Your own way to begin the conversation. Start with your own question. Give up on other people's question. Don't let them smother something to hear another's voice. Follow your own voice. Wait until that voice becomes an intimate, private ear that can really listen to another. Start right now. Take a small step you can call your own. Don't follow someone else's heroic. Be humble and focused. Start close in. Don't mistake that Other for your own start close in. Don't take the second step or the third. Start with the first thing. Close in the step you don't want to take.

[Elise Hu]

That's lovely.

[Dori Shafrier]

I love that.

[Elise Hu]

And I think a lot of folks can relate to that too, because especially that notion that the very first step is the one that you most don't want to take.

[Hillary Power]

Yeah, yeah. And that like, and in life. Yeah. And I feel like sometimes so much of the world can feel like it's like happening out there and around us and like to us and our feeds are crazy and full. And to me, this poem is really an invitation to be like, well, what is mine and what's not mine? And how do I engage with that?

[Elise Hu]

That's lovely. Thank you for sharing it with us. And, and thank you for just sharing your general insights about where you're at right now and how you're helping so many folks who need a business doula. Hillary, how can folks find you?

[Hillary Power]

They can email me, they can go to my website, which is River Day projects with an s.com I lead retreats, I work with people one on one. I work with businesses and I lead kind of one off workshops and things like that. There's one coming up on Friday, March 13, that I am partnering with an incredible herbalist to do flower essence making kind of around the spring equinox and explore that medicine, which is so fun and so like just truly being a green witch. So I'm doing all kinds of fun things and I would love to have anyone who's curious hear more.

[Elise Hu]

Hillary Power. Thank you so much.

[Hillary Power]

Thank you guys so much.

[Dori Shafrier]

I thought having someone like Hilary on would be interesting because she has this like very corporate background, but she also does this like more like we were saying the beginning.

[Elise Hu]

Women's circles.

[Dori Shafrier]

Women's circles. Yeah. And all this stuff.

[Elise Hu]

So somatic healing.

[Dori Shafrier]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Elise Hu]

That's great. Yeah. Thank you, Hillary.

[Dori Shafrier]

Yeah, thank you, Hillary. So intentions. Last week I was going to not get overwhelmed by my social life. And so far so good. I. I was glad that I had postponed one of the events that I was supposed to do. I was supposed to have a dinner on Tuesday and I pushed it a couple weeks and I was like, you know what? That was the right choice. So that was good. This week I need to. We really need to start declutter, like fully decluttering our house because Henry is having a playdate here at our house in a couple of weeks.

[Elise Hu]

We know that.

[Dori Shafrier]

Yeah. He's having three friends over.

[Elise Hu]

Okay. Okay.

[Dori Shafrier]

And it's a lot, so don't know how that's gonna go.

[Hillary Power]

We don't have a lot.

[Elise Hu]

You're just gonna be like trashing things.

[BetterHelp Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Dori Shafrier]

Put things in trash bags next, I guess. I don't know. There's like so much that needs to be cleared out, but we at least need to, like, we need to get going on this because it's going to take a while. It's not something that we can just do in like a day. So Godspeed.

[Elise Hu]

Thank you so much.

[Dori Shafrier]

Thank you so much. What about you?

[Elise Hu]

Last week, my intention was to spend more time outside. I ended up with more time inside than I wanted because of Oscar developing a post surgical complication. And then I had to spend so much time in waiting rooms of vets. So I'm going to try that again because the weather is beautiful. It rained a little bit, but now it's cleared up. And we are just so, so fortunate to be in LA and have it not be freezing. So it's also coinciding with my birthday week, which is one of my favorite times of the year. My birthday is tomorrow, February 17th, and it's also Lunar New Year. Lunar New Year and my birthday almost always happen on the same weekend, but very rarely on the same actual day. It is the beginning of the year of the fire Horse, which is really auspicious. According to my mother, the horse is an auspicious sign. The fire is, you know, fire is so generative in a lot of ways as an element. And so Fire Horse year only comes around every 48 years. So we're very excited about that. And it's me and Michael Jordan and Paris Hilton's birthday. So my intention is just to really.

[Dori Shafrier]

Celebrate to all of you. Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

Thank you. Thank you. I'll pass on word to Paris. Yeah, but it's to. Yeah, I just really want to celebrate life and all its abundance. And it's an awesome time because I get to see a lot of friends. We usually get together. And one of my friends whose baby I haven't met yet, she's going to bring the baby to birthday drinks. She's going to wear her. So I finally get to meet a new baby and squeeze her and smell newborn head. And I love the smell of newborns. There's just something so compelling about it. So anyway, I love it and I'm really excited and hoping that this new Fire Horse year brings goodness, a little goodness and peace.

[Dori Shafrier]

Yes. Amen. All right, everybody. Forever 35 is hosted and produced by me, Dori Shafrier and Elise Skew. And produced and edited by Sam Hunio. Sammy Reed is our Project Manager and our network partners, Acast. Thanks everyone.

[Elise Hu]

Bye bye.

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