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Elise Hu
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Elise Hu
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Dory Shafrier
Hello and welcome to Forever 35, a podcast about the things we we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Dory Shafrier.
Elise Hu
And I'm Elise Hu. And we're just two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.
Dory Shafrier
And today is a very special episode.
Elise Hu
It's officially the 400th full length episode of Forever 35.
Dory Shafrier
Wow.
Elise Hu
There are more than 400 in total. It's probably like more like 700 something in total because there are many apps.
Dory Shafrier
There are many apps.
Elise Hu
But as for the Monday full length episodes, this is episode number 400 and we are also going to stop numbering them from here on out because we have gotten advice that it is sort of gatekeepy to have the Numbers on here because it makes. It could make.
Dory Shafrier
It seems overwhelming.
Elise Hu
New listeners feel overwhelmed. So welcome in if you are new. We are going to have fresh episodes on the main feed every Monday going forward. And we're collapsing the episodes formerly known as mini apps that were on Wednesday. We're collapsing those into Monday apps that are going to appear every other Monday. So we're going to be with you weekly now on Mondays and then additionally on our Patreon on Fridays with a casual chat for those of you who want to join the patreon, but. Happy 400th door.
Dory Shafrier
Happy 400th I have been here. I have been here for the whole time. The whole time.
Elise Hu
Are you feeling wistful? Are there any, like, standouts, memories from this journey?
Dory Shafrier
Well, it's just. It's like really hard for me to wrap my head around.
Elise Hu
Yeah.
Kate Spencer
Yeah.
Dory Shafrier
How many episodes. Which I guess is why we're not numbering them anymore. It's even hard for me to wrap my head around it. Yeah. I mean, you know, in a way, it's like, oh, I've just, you know, I've been doing this. This podcast has been part of my life for the past, you know, eight years. It just feels like this is like my life now. But I sort of look back on where things were when we started, and it's like so much has changed.
Elise Hu
Because you started in person, right?
Dory Shafrier
We started in person. We would record at either Kate's house or my house. We would bring all. Sammy would come. Sammy lived in LA still. Sammy would come and, like, you know, engineer the recording.
Elise Hu
Oh, my gosh.
Dory Shafrier
We had all this equipment.
Elise Hu
How did you find Sammy? Both Sammies. What is the story?
Dory Shafrier
Sammy Junio we found through a woman that used to work with Matt.
Kate Spencer
Okay.
Dory Shafrier
But she referred us to Sammy. And I remember we. I was still working at Buzzfeed and our office at the time was in like a. At a sound stage essentially on Sunset. And there was a coffee shop in, like, on the street level. And I had Kate and Sammy meet me there because I was working. So I just, like, went downstairs and met them for coffee. And I remember Sammy came in on their scooter. They're like Vespa or something. And was in, like, a leather jacket. We were like, sammy's so cool.
Kate Spencer
Yeah.
Dory Shafrier
I don't know. Sammy might be too cool for us. They still are. They still are. Still are.
Elise Hu
Yes.
Dory Shafrier
The rest is history. And then during COVID we started recording remotely. I mean, we used to have. Do our guests in person, too.
Elise Hu
So it was like totally different era.
Dory Shafrier
It was different. People had to be in la. Sometimes we would coordinate with people when they were like, making a stop on their tour. But, like, it was. I feel like it really skewed heavily towards people who, who lived in la. So doing it remotely, like, really opened up our guest capabilities. Right, right. And then when lockdown sort of ended, we were like, well, it's so much easier to just do it remotely. And it's sort of funny now, now that people are doing video podcasts, the in person recording has kind of come back.
Elise Hu
Yeah.
Dory Shafrier
Because people are doing it in studios.
Elise Hu
Right.
Dory Shafrier
But yeah, that's just like a different. A different thing.
Elise Hu
Everything old is new again.
Dory Shafrier
Everything old is new again. I mean, those of us who have been in like the digital media space for a long time, such as myself, I mean, this is now like the, like the 4th 15th. Pivot to video. Pivot to video.
Elise Hu
Every time there was a pivot to video, it. Well, now looking back, it seems like it was driven by some platform. Right. Like there was a pivot to video driven by Facebook. Now there's a pivot to video for another monetary reason. It's because, like, YouTube wants it or Spotify wants it. And so, I don't know. I mean, I started in video, I started in television, so it's. I like it anyway, but I find all of these platforms to be money grubbing and not worthy of my trust. So we will see. We will see what happens.
Dory Shafrier
Yeah.
Elise Hu
Either way, every time there's a pivot to video, because I spend this time being skeptical about it and then I probably miss out on those early rush, you know, that flood of money that comes in at the very beginning before things bottom out.
Dory Shafrier
No, for sure. I mean, me too. I'm always like, well, this won't last. Yeah. So anyway, yeah, it's been a wild journey, but for the 400th episode, we decided it'd be fun to bring back the one and only Kate Horse Spencer.
Elise Hu
Kate Horse Spencer.
Dory Shafrier
That's what we said. Is that her middle name?
Elise Hu
No, I like it. I mean, I have a living middle daughter whose middle name is Rock, so, you know, it's cool.
Dory Shafrier
There you go. Yeah. Because we had, we had Kate on when her last book was coming out, but we hadn't really had her back on for just like a chit chat. So it was really fun to get to catch up with her and get her in front of a microphone again.
Elise Hu
She figured it out. She was like, oh, I speak here. Yeah, she's got it.
Dory Shafrier
I think, you know, people have Been listening to the POD for a while. Will enjoy the conversation. If you haven't listened to the POD for a while, I think you will also enjoy the conversation. So, yeah, it was a good time. But what. What's new with you, Elise?
Elise Hu
Well, on the topic of Kate Spencer, actually, we went to Independent Bookstore Day, which was last Saturday.
Dory Shafrier
Cool.
Elise Hu
As of this recording. So it would be a week from this past Saturday for those of you all hearing this episode. And on Indie Bookstore Day, I went to a new indie bookstore in my neighborhood on the west side of LA called Good Girl Books.
Dory Shafrier
And I saw their. Their Tick Tock was, like, served to me. And so I. I followed a bit of their, like, journeying out of their store. Yeah. So it's exciting to hear that they're open.
Elise Hu
Yeah, they were open. And I took Ava, my eldest daughter, in order to find some books. And we get in there and along the back side of the cash wrap, they had local authors. They did featured books from local authors. And so they had some of our favorites here at forever 35. They had Alyssa Sussman, they had Lisa. See, they had Stuart Gibbs, who writes all those YA and children's books. He's like, in Marina. And at the very end, Ava picks up a book and she was like, oh, this is clearly Enemies to Lovers. And then she reads the back of it and it's like, oh. And then one steamy night turns into two, turns into more, and she's like, super into it. And it turns out it was one last summer by the one and only Kate Spencer.
Dory Shafrier
Kate Horse Spencer.
Elise Hu
Kate Horace Spencer. And Ava didn't know that we were connected and that we were friends or any of this, but she wanted the book. And then she also got hand sold to other Enemies to Lovers books by the booksellers there who really knew their stuff. Because Ava has a very specific subgenre she's into. It's enemies to lovers with murder.
Dory Shafrier
Okay, okay, Ava.
Elise Hu
So she was. So she was sold. She was sold an Enemies to Lovers ghost tale because the booksellers were like, there was a murder. That's how one of them wound up as a ghost.
Dory Shafrier
Oh, my God.
Elise Hu
She's like, okay, that's so funny. Okay, so I'm getting. I'm getting some bits and bobs of the one last summer story told to me in the car on the way to school in the mornings.
Dory Shafrier
Oh, my gosh. I love that. Okay. So fun. I'll have to go check out that store. I'm excited.
Elise Hu
Yes. When you're out on this side of town perhaps before the Lena Dunham event coming up.
Dory Shafrier
Oh yes, yes.
Elise Hu
You could stop and pick up some books.
Dory Shafrier
Very excited about that. If you too are going to the LA Lena Dunham event, let us know. All right. Well, we are going to get to our dear friend Kate. I mean Kate really needs no introduction.
Elise Hu
Nope.
Dory Shafrier
She used to host this podcast. She's written so many great books.
Elise Hu
Enemies to Lovers Books.
Dory Shafrier
Yes, great. Some great Enemies to Lovers books. Before we get to her, just a reminder that our voicemail number is 781-591-0390. You can email us at forever35podcastmail.com. We are still going to be doing what used to be called mini episodes. We haven't landed on a great name for those yet, but we will. But we will be doing these sort of like mailbag episodes. So keep the questions coming. 781-591-0390 forever35podcast Gmail com. Our website is forever35podcast.com. We have links there to everything we and our guests mention on the show. Our Instagram is @forever35podcast and our Patreon is patreon.com forever35 at the free level you get our semi monthly newsletter which is super fun. And then for $5 a month you also get our casual chat which is now on video. Those are weekly. We do live casual chats every quarter. You have access to our little community chat in the Patreon app. And then at $10 a month, you also get ad free episodes and a shout out on the podcast each and every month. So we will be right back with Kate.
Elise Hu
We'll be right back.
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Elise Hu
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Kate Spencer
See verizon.com for details.
Dory Shafrier
Well, well, well. Look who we have here.
Kate Spencer
Look what the cat dragged in. I'm literally the cat. I'm the cat.
Dory Shafrier
You're the cat.
Kate Spencer
I dragged myself in.
Dory Shafrier
You dragged yourself in.
Kate Spencer
Hello, Dory. Hello, Elise. Hi. Hello.
Dory Shafrier
So nice to see you.
Elise Hu
And to be clear, we invited you because it is a huge anniversary. Do you know this, Kate?
Kate Spencer
I do, because Sammy Reed, project manager extraordinaire of the pod, in the headline to the email that Sammy sent to me, it said 400th episode. And I was like, how and what? And then I thought back in time to 2018. That's a long time.
Dory Shafrier
A lot has changed.
Kate Spencer
The whole world.
Dory Shafrier
The whole world has changed.
Kate Spencer
It's wild. Yes.
Elise Hu
The president is the same as it was though, you know?
Kate Spencer
Yeah. And for that, I want to crawl into my bed and never come out. But I'm happy to be here.
Dory Shafrier
Yes. So we were like, who would be a more fitting guest for our 400th episode than one and only Kate Spencer?
Kate Spencer
Yeah. Oprah or me? And I appreciate the. Oprah couldn't do it.
Elise Hu
Yeah. She had a conflict.
Dory Shafrier
So, I mean, here you are between us. We turned her down.
Kate Spencer
You did? I knew it.
Dory Shafrier
She really wanted to come on. And we were like, sorry, Oprah, we've had. We have Kate Spencer available.
Kate Spencer
So she was like offering.
Dory Shafrier
Yeah, you're gonna have to wait for the 401st episode.
Kate Spencer
Well, I'm very happy to be here.
Dory Shafrier
So, Kate, you know, we always ask our guests about a self care practice that they have. You might have even come up with this.
Kate Spencer
No idea.
Dory Shafrier
But I feel like you have had a lot of self care practices over the years and I'm wondering if there is something that you are doing right now that maybe you know is new since you were last on.
Kate Spencer
I actually have a new practice that I have been doing for about a month. Okay. And the name I have given it is my pep talk journal. And it's kind of a combination of a few things, but it is a small notebook that I keep on my bedside table. And every night I write kind of the. A checklist of what I want to do in the morning so that when I wake up, I have a plan. And right now it's like, get up, get your coffee, take your meds, get dressed, like, eat some protein and then go write. I've been waking up and writing at 6 in the morning. Or I wake up at 5:30 and I write at 6. But so this gives me. If, if I don't see exactly what I'm supposed to be doing, it all goes out the window. So this is kind of like my roadmap for the morning. But then I also include some positive self talk because I my, I just really struggle with negative self talk talk and negative self thought. And if you have listened to me on this podcast in the past, you probably that might sound familiar. Fun fact, it hasn't changed and but this has been like a nice. I kind of write myself like a positive message. I just kind of, I don't know, something cheerful or like you've got this. Or I find a quote and then oftentimes when I've completed the thing, I'll just write a little note after and about how it went. Or I just, I bought so many journals and I was looking for a use for this little tiny one and I had never seen. I know people keep like note, you know, notepads on their side of their bed or write like a morning to do list. But I've never seen a journal where you just like talk positively to yourself.
Elise Hu
Yeah.
Kate Spencer
As well. So that's what I've been doing and it's like actually really been successful. Like I really like it. I look forward to like writing it at night. I look forward to seeing it in the morning. And it does remind me to go do those things because if I don't have a visual reminder right in front of me, the notebook has to stay open. If the notebook was closed on my bedside table, all of it, even if I had written all this, it would be useless. So that is my current. That's a current self care practice that I have really enjoyed.
Elise Hu
This reminds me, have you ever sung along to the Snoop Dogg affirmation song?
Kate Spencer
I'd never even heard of such a thing.
Elise Hu
Oh girl, it's so good. It's so good. It's for kids, but it applies well to adults. And I will do it every once in a while, especially if I'm like in a mid afternoon slump and I feel completely unmotivated to continue on with the day. Snoop Dogg has a song called I think it's called the Affirmation Song. Yeah, and it came out in a few years ago, but he essentially says like my feelings matter and then you repeat it. My feelings matter. And then it's like I get better every single day and then you repeat him, you follow along with the song and it's like I choose to feel happy. My family loves me so much. And it's so fun. It's Snoop Dogg. And then you just like sing along to them. It's so much fun.
Kate Spencer
I love that. That kind of, that kind of practice of just like reminding yourself of, you know, of your self worth is valuable at any age. Right. Like, I love that. That is intended for kids, but also it's so great. I wish I had had that when I was five.
Elise Hu
Yeah.
Kate Spencer
Maybe I wouldn't be here today, but I think that sounds delightful.
Elise Hu
You just fake it till you make it. And so I'm just like, great. My feelings matter.
Dory Shafrier
They do.
Kate Spencer
And they do matter.
Elise Hu
It's great. So anyway, we'll put it in our show notes.
Kate Spencer
Send me the link.
Elise Hu
Will do. Will do. What is it, like, raising teens right now? Are both your kids teens now?
Kate Spencer
They are, yeah.
Elise Hu
I wanted to hear all about this and how those years are going.
Kate Spencer
It is actually very fulfilling. I mean, you're raising teens.
Elise Hu
Yeah, I like it at all.
Kate Spencer
It's really hard. It's really hard. But I also find it really, like, really rewarding in a way that like, feels like a first for me as a parent. I don't know. Like, I really do enjoy it and I, I, I like their friends and I try to, like, stress that I'm there to support them, but, like, not also not get in their way. We listen to it's like non Stop Tame Impala and ASAP Rocky. And I just like. And I like both those artists, but it's like, I get like, I'll be in the car, like, bopping to the Grateful Dead, and then one of them gets in the front seat and it's just like, we are, we're back in the Tame Impala cycle.
Dory Shafrier
Can I just sidebar about Tame Impala for a moment?
Kate Spencer
This is. Yes, I, I want to go here.
Dory Shafrier
Okay. Because they were popular like 15 years ago.
Elise Hu
Yeah, it's all coming around.
Kate Spencer
It's all coming back.
Dory Shafrier
And all of a sudden they're like, super popular. And I'm like, what, what is, what is happening?
Elise Hu
Do you remember when Stranger Things premiered? And all of a sudden, like, all these 80s songs were back too. It was wild.
Dory Shafrier
What happened? Like, was it tick tock? Like, what happened? Why did.
Kate Spencer
I'm assuming tick tock.
Elise Hu
Yeah, okay. It was a tick tock all.
Dory Shafrier
Thank you for clearing that up.
Kate Spencer
What's so interesting is that my kids don't still don't have TikTok, but it doesn't matter, right?
Elise Hu
It doesn't matter. They're influenced by it because it's in
Kate Spencer
the culture yeah, yeah. The culture, it gets the, like online culture disseminates very quickly. So yeah, they are, they are tame. Impala Ing.
Dory Shafrier
Wow.
Kate Spencer
And asaping. That's like, those are the main. Don Toliver is a new person I keep hearing about. I don't know, another.
Dory Shafrier
Another person who's been around for Don.
Kate Spencer
I've never heard of Don To.
Elise Hu
Don Tol. You don't?
Kate Spencer
The British comedian?
Dory Shafrier
No, Don to has been around for a minute. Like, who the hell?
Kate Spencer
I. I've never heard of this person. Again, I listen to mostly Jam Ban still, but.
Dory Shafrier
Yeah, well, I mean, he's been. I guess I'm looking him up now. He's been around for says years. Active 2015 to present. Like, he's. It's not like he got famous, you know, six months ago. Like, which 30 and 40 year olds are like breaking through to the youth. I'm curious and I have a very
Kate Spencer
vivid memory of when I saw Wayne's World in the movie theaters and heard Bohemian Rhapsody for the first time in my life and thought I had discovered it was like life changing. Learning about Queen and then suddenly I was like blasting that song over, you know, like there's always that moment where somehow you have missed something until the moment you haven't and you're like 10 years, 15, 20 years late, but it's still so good.
Dory Shafrier
Yeah.
Elise Hu
And how beautiful to get to witness them discovering something even if it's super old. It's like, oh, look at you enjoying this.
Kate Spencer
Yes. And I try to keep my mouth shut because it's not that I don't enjoy their music, but I just like remember my parents commenting like, man, what is this like, man, you know, like kind of.
Elise Hu
Yeah.
Kate Spencer
And I'm so. I just try to. Yeah, I just try to like bop along and find the songs I enjoy and, you know.
Elise Hu
Yeah, but you don't want to enjoy it too much because then you seem cringe because, like, I really like a
Kate Spencer
lot of teen culture, you know, but
Elise Hu
then I don't want to be like Amy Poehler in Mean Girls, which I think I always run the risk of anyway because they all think that I'm like too youthful, like into youth culture. So anyway, there's really. It's hard. It's hard. But Kate, will you want to update us on you and update the listeners on what you've been doing, what you're excited about?
Kate Spencer
Well, I've taken two watercolor painting classes through my local parks and recreation department and I love it. That has been really satisfying.
Elise Hu
Have you made New friends, like cross generational friends in these classes?
Kate Spencer
A little bit. Yeah, kind of. It's a. It's so delightful. There are people, mostly everybody is older than me.
Dory Shafrier
Love that.
Kate Spencer
I love it. It's been really rewarding also. Just like, I enjoy of. I've never done a visual art before, and I find it. I find it very soothing. And I like doing a class because it is structured. I've never once, like, painted at my house by myself, but I like going to the class and like being told what to do. And I do like meeting members of my community who aren't, you know, in the 30 to 50 range with children at the same schools as mine.
Dory Shafrier
Right.
Kate Spencer
I have been writing. I've been working on some writing projects. I'm working on three things I'm excited about kind of simultaneously, but they're all very, like, rough draft, early morning messes. But that's also been really rewarding, I'm sure.
Elise Hu
Yeah.
Dory Shafrier
Are you.
Elise Hu
Is your older one gonna be looking at colleges already soon or.
Dory Shafrier
No?
Kate Spencer
I would say my oldest is a freshman finishing freshman year.
Elise Hu
Okay.
Kate Spencer
Okay, we have time. But it's definitely, like, something she thinks about, especially because, like, she's. She's on the track team, and so she's friendly with a lot of these seniors and they're going to school. And so that's been kind of cool just for her to, like, know these older kids who have been very, like, kind to her and her freshman friends and, you know, so I feel like the teens get a bad rap, but, like, I do feel like the teens are also great.
Elise Hu
Yeah.
Kate Spencer
You know, like, the teens are. Are also doing okay. How is pickleball okay, girl, I need major structure again. Like, I don't have it in me to just go to the pickleball open, play at my, like, local courts and put.
Dory Shafrier
I mean, that's also intimidating. Like, I've seen those pickleball open play situations as I bop over to the tennis court and I'm like, I. I don't think I would.
Kate Spencer
I don't know.
Dory Shafrier
It does feel intimidating.
Kate Spencer
It does. It doesn't. It feels like a lot for me. And so I haven't done that, but I did play in a ladies ladder league.
Dory Shafrier
Oh, cool.
Kate Spencer
Singles or doubles? Well, doubles. Most pickleball, like, recreational pickleball is doubles. That was very intimidating for me. So I'm trying to kind of, you know, like, push myself out of my comfort zone here as I. As I head towards 47 years old.
Dory Shafrier
Okay. Kate, you're wearing a lovely red lip.
Kate Spencer
I Thought I would spice it up today.
Dory Shafrier
I love that for you and for us. Could you tell us about this? Lippy?
Kate Spencer
Lippy.
Dory Shafrier
Yeah, lippy.
Kate Spencer
Oh, boy. Lippy.
Elise Hu
Okay.
Kate Spencer
It's by merit and it is called vermilion signature lip. I cannot see. My eyes are. There we go. Signature lip Vermilion. It's kind of an orangey red and I quite like it. A matte orangey red.
Dory Shafrier
I like it too.
Kate Spencer
Yeah, it's really nice. I would not like. I wouldn't. Am going to go get my kids after this. I wouldn't normally bust this out for a pickup, but for like a going out lip or like a pod or a zoom lip or a podcast recording lip. I like this. It's a very nice color. Shout out to Merit. I use a lot of their products and I quite like them.
Dory Shafrier
So we're just going to take a short break and we will be right back. You know, I feel like we put so much effort into our skin care with all the serums, the treatments, facials routines, et cetera, et cetera, but do we think about the thing touching our skin for eight hours every single night?
Elise Hu
Our sheets?
Dory Shafrier
Yes. Let's spend some time considering our bedding.
Elise Hu
Good point. Good point.
Dory Shafrier
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Kate Spencer
Yeah.
Dory Shafrier
And I'm kind of obsessed with them.
Elise Hu
Oh, I'm so excited.
Dory Shafrier
Super soft, but they also. They feel, like, substantial. Yeah.
Elise Hu
Yeah.
Dory Shafrier
Like, I feel like I've gotten sheets in the past that just feel kind of flimsy and these feel, like, really nice. Do you know what I mean?
Elise Hu
They're lux.
Dory Shafrier
Yes, they are lux. And they were soft when I, like, picked them up out of the box. But, you know, you washed your sheets before you put them on the bed and they got even softer, like even just after the first. So great wash. So I'm obsessed.
Elise Hu
I love.
Dory Shafrier
It was so nice to come back from vacation and just, like, get into my cozy, comfy bowl and branch sheets. Oh, so nice. A lot of people start with the bowl and branch signature sheets, and then they add the matching pillowcases and a waffle blanket, because that combination makes the whole bed feel softer and cooler. It's one of those upgrades where you notice the difference the very first night. So upgrade your sleep with bowl and Branch. Get 15% off your first order plus free shipping at bowl and branch.com/forever35 with code Forever35. That's Bowen, Branch B, O, L, L, A, N D branch.com Forever35. Code Forever35. To unlock 15% off exclusions apply. Elise, I want you to picture this.
Elise Hu
Okay?
Dory Shafrier
It's the middle of the week. You want a home cooked meal, but you can't think of anything to cook except the same thing you cook every week.
Elise Hu
True story.
Dory Shafrier
Yeah, it's like that's comfort food, but you want some adventure.
Kate Spencer
Mm.
Dory Shafrier
But with HelloFresh, you can cook up bold flavors from around the world without ever leaving home. Which I think you actually did do recently.
Elise Hu
I sure did. I made the HelloFresh classic beef tacos which everyone loves. It comes with restaurant style salsa and a little chipotle lime crema. So we kind of, yeah, we made it a little more authentic for taco night. And it's classic yet sure to satisfy. It was great for the whole family.
Dory Shafrier
I love that. Hellofresh really makes savoring new flavors from around the world. Delicious, simple and wholesome. With HelloFresh, no two meals will be the same. You can choose from over 80 recipes from all over the world every month, including Vietnamese, Moroccan, Caribbean and more. If you've been interested in trying ingredients like lemongrass, gochujang and curry paste, but don't want to buy a whole like thing of it, this is the perfect opportunity. They send those ingredients pre portioned for you. Hellofresh makes cooking effortless. You can always look forward to a homemade meal because nothing hits like home cooking.
Elise Hu
Go to hellofresh.com forever35 10fm now to get 10 free meals plus a free breakfast for life. One per box with active subscription free meals applied as discount on first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan. That's hellofresh.com forever35 10fm to get 10 free meals plus free breakfast for life. Kate, I wanted to ask you because recently you were in New York magazine's the Strategist.
Kate Spencer
Oh yeah.
Elise Hu
With a big picture of you and your CPAP machine. So tell us about your sleep journey.
Kate Spencer
Okay, well may I first just say I posted a photo of myself in bed with my full like accoutrement on and just made some like snippy comment about like what is it like to not go to bed like this? I can't remember exactly what I said and I posted it to my Instagram Stories and then someone at the strategist reached out and was like, hey, we saw this. Would you want to like break down your, you know, your sleep practices? And I didn't realize it would essentially be like a verbatim. I thought they would maybe just like make a list. I don't know. I. So they really like posted verbatim our 30 minute conversation. And as you know, I like hyper fixate and get really passionate about like I feel very passionate about my sleep stuff. So I am just like rambling in that conversation. So it was very. It was fun. It was like I was like excited to do it. But also I was a little bit like mortified that I had no sensor. But yes, I will tell you, I was diagnosed with sleep apnea like a year and a half ago and I have a CPAP machine that I love. As I explained in that interview, this is all covered by my insurance, which is very fortunate because those CPAP machines are expensive. So I just want to add that caveat that this shit is expensive. So I. Yeah, so I wear a CPAP on my nose I don't use. I had a one that covered my mouth that was too much for me. First I put a sleep bonnet on from kitsch. Then I put my head strap on to hold my chin up so that my mouth doesn't fall open while I sleep. Also I've put my retainer in then.
Elise Hu
This is so sweet.
Kate Spencer
It's so hot. My husband.
Elise Hu
You're really painting a picture.
Kate Spencer
He's next to me like can't wait to pounce. You know what I'm saying? It's so attractive. I put my CPAP mask on. Then I put my eye mask over it. And then sometimes I'll put my sleep headphones on, which I feel like I found about from Dory because Matt was wearing them at some point. Like those like the headband.
Dory Shafrier
Headband. Yeah. He doesn't. He doesn't wear. They didn't really take for him, but I'm glad they work for you.
Kate Spencer
I bought those to go on a three day backpacking trip in the Sierra Nevadas because I knew I couldn't sleep without white noise. This is what a like a monster I've become. So I would like charge my phone. I had downloaded white noise and then I would. Or brown noise, my preference. And then I would blast that on this camping trip. And those headphones. But anyway, sometimes I wear those and listen to a meditation. Then I put on brown noise on my lofty sleep clock. I do my gratitude journal and my one line a day journal, and then I snuggle on in. And I also have a leg pillow, my baby blanket. I have a warmie, which is like a heating stuffed animal. I mean, it's just a lot. It's so much. It's a lot.
Elise Hu
Yeah.
Kate Spencer
This is a lot of gear.
Elise Hu
This is a lot of gear.
Kate Spencer
Yeah. You know how some people are gearheads for, like, cycling?
Elise Hu
Yes, yes.
Kate Spencer
I'm like a sleep gearhead.
Dory Shafrier
But, you know, I. I feel like for a long time you had some sleep struggles.
Kate Spencer
The sleep apnea diagnosis and the CPAP machine has changed. Has, like, has changed my life. And because I sleep, I mean, I'm. Because I'm breathing and my brain not stopping breathing at night and I'm sleeping, I feel more rested. I'm sleeping better. I'm also on a variety of hormones, which is helping the perimenopause sleep issues that I have. But ye. Yes. No, that was. I was waking up tired and with a headache every morning, and I would sleep. Even if I slept for like eight hours, I would feel exhausted.
Dory Shafrier
You weren't getting good sleep.
Kate Spencer
No. So that has been.
Dory Shafrier
That's amazing.
Kate Spencer
That has been really exciting.
Elise Hu
I'm glad you brought up an alarm clock too, because in a recent listener question, somebody actually asked, do you have any alarm clock recommendations? And it sounds like your brown noise clock from Lofty also serves an alarm as an alarm clock. If you want.
Kate Spencer
It's an alarm. It is an alarm clock.
Elise Hu
Okay.
Kate Spencer
I have tried so many of these smart clocks. I've tried Hatch, which I liked, but it felt like almost too many bells and whistles, and I couldn't quite figure out how to use it. And I think this Lofty clock is a similar thing where you could put a meditation on your clock. I'm just. I'm not doing that. I'm more just. It's just a. It works. The alarms are calming. It's not my phone. And it plays brown noise, which is what I like to listen to when I sleep. And it plays other. Other things as well. I got. You could do white noise or pink noise or whatever, but, yeah, it gets the job done.
Elise Hu
Yeah.
Kate Spencer
Great.
Elise Hu
And you mentioned, at least in this strategist piece, as you were like, recording a stream of consciousness. Recording stream of consciousness for the reporter. You mentioned that you actually had sleep troubles. Way younger. Right. Like, when did they first start for you?
Kate Spencer
Well, I have an anxiety disorder, and that would. When I was having what, I didn't really understand what was happening, but I Was having either like, anxiety attacks or panic attacks. And I. I would be up within kind of this, like, panicked insomnia all night. I'd have to sleep on the floor. Like, I couldn't. I couldn't sleep in my bed. So I would make a bed on the floor and something about that would help me settle my nervous system. And I do still from time to time have insomnia. And I just wake up and go sit on the couch and like, you know, look at my phone. To be honest, sometimes I will read, but, like, you know, let's be real. But yeah, I've. I've always. I have struggled with sleep. Like, falling asleep just. It's a lot of it, I think is just like calming the. My brain in many ways, which, again, is probably going to be just like a lifelong journey.
Elise Hu
Well, it sounds like all of these, all of the gear has helped, so. Good.
Kate Spencer
It's helped. You know what I also hate to say has helped is meditation does help. When I meditate, I feel better. And I. That annoys me, but it's true.
Elise Hu
Dan Harris, thanks you. Because you're 10% happier.
Kate Spencer
I don't know if I'm happier, but it does get crazy.
Dory Shafrier
Yeah.
Kate Spencer
Okay. But I do feel slightly better.
Elise Hu
Better.
Kate Spencer
And that, like, enough that I notice. And that's also interesting to me.
Dory Shafrier
Great.
Elise Hu
Yeah.
Dory Shafrier
Kate, one thing that you were really into kind of right before you stopped doing the pod was the Ice Planet Barbarian series of books.
Kate Spencer
I loved them.
Dory Shafrier
What are you into now? What are you reading? Has anything come close to the glory that was the Ice Planet Barbarian?
Kate Spencer
No.
Elise Hu
I mean.
Kate Spencer
Well, because that author has. Ruby Dixon is prolific and has written so many and so many iterations of this amazing world. So I've read like 50 books adjacent to the Ice Planet Barbarian world. I really did enjoy the entire Rachel Reed Game Changers series. And then I also read her two standalone hockey romances, and I loved those two. In fact, one of those takes was my favorite, I think, of all of her books. So I blasted through those and I mostly listened to them on audiobook, and that was wonderful.
Elise Hu
I just started on audiobook, Lena Dunham's new.
Kate Spencer
That's what I'm listening to.
Elise Hu
It's great because she reads it, you know, it's great. And, you know, she comes from such. She has such an interesting perspective over the last 10 years, like only it. Only Lena Dunham was in Lena Dunham's shoes and in Lena Dunham's body. And so to hear her articulate, that has been very enjoyable, actually, to Listen to.
Kate Spencer
I have been on kind of an audiobook memoir, Terror.
Elise Hu
What else do you like?
Kate Spencer
Well, I listen to Strangers by Bell Burden.
Elise Hu
I listened to that as well. I thought it was very well done.
Kate Spencer
I also thought it was really well done. I tend to kind of just see what is available that I think I bought. But I just go to Libby and I look up like celebrity memoirs and just to have somebody chatting in my ear. That's not like a political podcast or like there's, it's. There's just something soothing about like a famous person talking about stuff that isn't too high stakes that I find to just kind of like settle me a little bit.
Dory Shafrier
Well, it's high stakes for her. For.
Kate Spencer
Yes. And I should say like both of those, you know, Lena Dunham is dealing with like her. There's a lot of stuff.
Elise Hu
Yeah.
Kate Spencer
Health assault. I mean they're not like light and fluffy, but I do. That is kind of my, like, I tend to kind of like I'll try to listen to like a, you know, a historical like non fiction book about like how did the Vietnam War start? And I just get. It gets. It's too hard. I haven't, I haven't done that. So what else am I reading right now? I've been posting. You know what, I've been like putting book links up on a bookshop page that I throw up in my newsletter because I'm reading. I'm kind of just trying to read. I've been on a little bit of a, like in a dip this last month, but I have been reading a lot more and listening to a lot more audiobooks. So I've been trying to share that in my newsletter because I'm trying to just keep it.
Elise Hu
Well, I need to hit you up for some suggestions too because I am guest editing Downtime, which is a substat newsletter.
Kate Spencer
Yes.
Dory Shafrier
Okay.
Elise Hu
And I'm putting together. I guess we're just gonna share now. I'm putting together a list of beach read recommendations that aren't necessarily beach reads. So I'll follow up after this conversation because would love for you to pitch into.
Kate Spencer
You know what also I have been doing is reading what my daughter is reading in school.
Elise Hu
Oh, what are they reading? What do they have going on?
Kate Spencer
She read this year. She read the Outsiders and Animal Farm. I hadn't read either of those books. And they were so good.
Dory Shafrier
They're so good.
Elise Hu
Yeah.
Kate Spencer
So good. And then you know what book I read that I thought was so good? It's a debut. It's called Swift River. And the author is Essie Chambers. And it's a heavy book. Like, it deals with a lot of, like, hard stuff, but it was so beautifully written. Like, the, the prose was just, like. I just loved it. Like, I, I. I felt, like, swept up into it immediately. I really enjoyed that book. So that might be a good. A good beach read. It's not light and fluffy, but it's so. It was engrossing and, like, just beautifully written. It was really moving.
Elise Hu
I think you've captured the prompt.
Kate Spencer
There we go. Okay. I love it.
Elise Hu
Not necessarily light and fluffy, but. No, engrossing and enjoyable.
Kate Spencer
I loved that book, too. So those are some of my recent. Rex.
Dory Shafrier
Okay, Kate, what about Costco? Rex? Is there anything at Costco right now?
Kate Spencer
Y'?
Dory Shafrier
All?
Kate Spencer
Can I tell you something? I got invited to, like, an influencer event at a Costco.
Dory Shafrier
What?
Kate Spencer
I. I was like, have. I don't get any influencer stuff anymore since I don't, you know, podcast anymore. So I get no, like, I rarely get any sort of, like, here's, you know, do you want to try this thing out? Or whatever. But, But I think these. This company has maybe familiar that with the fact that I love Costco and amazing. Like, a Costco of an event with a.
Dory Shafrier
What?
Kate Spencer
I know. I'm so. I'm going to that, I think, in May. What am I loving at Costco right now?
Elise Hu
This is the time of year when they have a lot of outdoor stuff, too, like patio furniture and Forget it all.
Kate Spencer
Stuff I don't need. Should it buy plants? Giant plants. Yep. Oh, man. I was like.
Elise Hu
I was like, yes. I need some more lavender, and then I'm gonna kill it.
Kate Spencer
No, I did the same thing. I can't buy that stuff. But I will say I have recently switched my coffee beans.
Dory Shafrier
Oh, yeah.
Kate Spencer
Oh, to what? Pete's. Pete's.
Dory Shafrier
Oh, like Pete's Coffee.
Kate Spencer
Yeah, Costco. It's the. I think it's like, Major Dickinson. I don't know. Major. Hold on. Yep. Major Dickinson. Whole Dickinson's whole beans.
Elise Hu
Great.
Kate Spencer
That's my coffee choice. My current bean choice at Costco. I'm trying to think of what else you mean. They have those chocolate covered mushrooms, forgetting the name of. I believe they're Japanese.
Dory Shafrier
Yes. They're not actual Japanese. They're sort of like.
Kate Spencer
Yeah, yeah.
Dory Shafrier
Cookie, cracker kind of mushroom.
Kate Spencer
Yeah. Oh, my God. Hold on. I just have to find the correct name because Choco Shrimp or something.
Dory Shafrier
Choco Rooms. Yeah. Matt likes those.
Kate Spencer
Oh, my gosh. Magi Choco Rooms. You can buy those At Costco. And that's like my favorite. Yes. And you buy them in bulk, but they're the little snack pack size. And that is my favorite. Like, sweet treat.
Elise Hu
That's a good one, Matt.
Dory Shafrier
Kate just recommended the Choco rooms. I like the chocolate pandas more.
Elise Hu
Oh, yeah, Chocolate pandas. It's also like a Korean or Japanese snack. I can't remember, but yeah, you.
Kate Spencer
There's.
Elise Hu
They're pandas on the outside. The cookie is on the outside, and then the chocolate or the strawberry filling is on the inside.
Kate Spencer
Ooh, that sounds good.
Elise Hu
Yeah, that's a big hit in the husband.
Kate Spencer
Have either of you tried the Kirkland brand tonkotsu ramen broth?
Elise Hu
Yes. Very good.
Kate Spencer
Is it good? Okay. I saw, I was like watching a video about this the other day, and I was like.
Elise Hu
And the shrimp tempura, the frozen shrimp tempura is very good. You can put it in your air fryer.
Dory Shafrier
I love the shrimp tempura.
Elise Hu
Really? Okay.
Kate Spencer
Yes.
Dory Shafrier
And I'll tell you what else. You know, it's great to eat as tempura, but it is also great to eat as a shrimp taco.
Kate Spencer
Oh, that's a great idea.
Dory Shafrier
It's so good in a shrimp taco.
Elise Hu
Put a little slaw in there.
Dory Shafrier
Put a little slaw, a little tortilla. It's really a great idea.
Elise Hu
That's a good hack.
Dory Shafrier
Yeah.
Kate Spencer
Because.
Dory Shafrier
Okay, so they used to have. In the prepared food section, they had shrimp tempura tacos.
Kate Spencer
Like really?
Dory Shafrier
The big. Yes, the big. You know, now they just have chicken, but they used to have shrimp tempura. And I would get those all the time because they were so good. And then they just stopped offering them. But then I started getting the big box of shrimp tempura. Great. And making them myself.
Kate Spencer
Yep. That sounds really good. I might try that. That sounds delish.
Elise Hu
I wish I didn't get a counter depth fridge because I have, you know, there's regular depth fridges and then counter depth so it doesn't jut out into your kitchen so much. And I don't, I don't have a large kitchen. And so I got a counter depth fridge, but that means I have almost no, no space in my freezer.
Kate Spencer
I'm in the same boat as a ongoing struggle with a freezer.
Elise Hu
Either problem.
Kate Spencer
Yep. Wouldn't you let. Like sometimes I watch videos of these people who have these, like, massive ass fridge situations.
Elise Hu
Everyone I grew up in, grew up with. In Texas, we all had two fridges. Because you had your garage fridge.
Kate Spencer
Yes.
Elise Hu
Or your garage fridge. And garage freezer.
Kate Spencer
Oh, oh. Like a deep. My mother in law has a deep freezer.
Dory Shafrier
I am desperate for. For a chest freezer.
Kate Spencer
Yes. That I thought about getting. I don't know where it would go. But I did have this thought of like if I got that and then I could just meal prep a bunch of things and freeze my little heart out.
Elise Hu
You could start broughing even I'd be like an Erewhon,
Kate Spencer
you know? Yeah. Like that is a place I've been to, I think two to three times in my life.
Elise Hu
Same, same. But lots of broth.
Kate Spencer
Yes. It's so expensive. But you know what? The times I've gotten food at Erewhon, it's all been really good.
Elise Hu
I know their prepared foods are excellent. It was annoying except like, do you want to pay your mortgage or do you want to.
Kate Spencer
Unreal how much that costs.
Elise Hu
Well, Kate, this is a really great note to end on because I feel like you have offered us so many wrecks across so many categories.
Kate Spencer
It's fun to get to talk, you know, it's fun to get to yap about this stuff because I. I haven't.
Elise Hu
You're welcome to come yet.
Dory Shafrier
You haven't talked about it.
Kate Spencer
It doesn't have a while. It does not have to be an anniversary. Okay. Okay, great. Well, I did leave a voicemail because I got the newsletter for the. And I was very excited. And then I did listen to the episode in which you played it and I had a good chuckle at Dory. Whatever Dory suggested.
Dory Shafrier
Oh, I said, long time host, first time college.
Kate Spencer
That was so smart. And I was like, God damn it, Dory. Of course, you know, like a good play on words. Well, this is a. This is a pleasure.
Dory Shafrier
This was a delight. Thank you, Kate. Now I always have to ask, where can our listeners find you?
Kate Spencer
My general hub, katespencerwrites.com you can find all my like basic info there. And then I am updating my newsletter regularly. About once a month I'm going to be talking about. I'm going to be talking more about my journaling and a morning ritual that I have which is also new. I'll save that for my newsletter. So I kind of try to send it out once a month. Book recs, rambling, the usual. And then I am in my Instagram stories. My Instagram grid is just a nine photo grid now. I've kind of.
Elise Hu
Yeah, you cleaned it up.
Kate Spencer
I cleaned it up. I had. I hired someone who was lovely and just helped me make a grid so that I don't feel stressed about posting to the grid, but I'm in those stories, so you can always find me on Instagram and my DMs. You can always send me a DM.
Elise Hu
Kate. Thank you. Thank you.
Kate Spencer
Thank you, Kate.
Dory Shafrier
This was so fun.
Kate Spencer
Thank you guys. Love you both.
Dory Shafrier
Well, that was fun to get to talk to Kate.
Elise Hu
Standing invitation too. She can join us anytime.
Dory Shafrier
Come back anytime. All right, here we are in the intention zone.
Elise Hu
What was your intention?
Dory Shafrier
My intention last week was a kind of like post trip reset.
Elise Hu
Oh, yes.
Dory Shafrier
And I feel like I'm still like, in the midst of it.
Elise Hu
Yeah.
Dory Shafrier
But I'm definitely like, resetting for sure. Taking care of some, like, stuff for all of a sudden, like the summer is upon us.
Elise Hu
Yeah.
Dory Shafrier
Like I'm trying to figure out what we're doing, what Henry's doing, like all that. And just I'm suddenly like, oh, the year is over.
Kate Spencer
Yeah.
Dory Shafrier
So I don't know. That's kind of like my this week thing. Figure out the summer. We'll go to Boston at some point and I have our tickets there, but I don't have our tickets home because I haven't figured out exactly when we're going to come back. And like, Henry likes to know the plan. So he keeps asking me, like, when are we coming back? And I'm like, I don't know. And he's like, that's, you know, that's like very stressful for him. So I'm like, okay, I gotta figure that out.
Elise Hu
He won't be stuck in Boston interminably. He will not indefinitely or anything like that.
Dory Shafrier
He definitely. He will not be. He will not be. What about you?
Elise Hu
I committed to re upping the strength training. I have gotten in one class, like one reformer class. So better than the week before. But a lot's been going on here. And then I finally had my appointment, which I forgot to update you on.
Dory Shafrier
Yeah.
Elise Hu
How did you look at my lump? Well, it turns out she thinks on sonogram. This is with a different breast surgeon. She's like, I think your two lumps are actually connected because there was one that's a cyst and the other is a papilloma. And they're all in the same milk duct that goes up to, you know, that would have fed my kids. So right behind my nip.
Dory Shafrier
Interesting.
Elise Hu
And so she's like, if I went in there, I'd just cut them both out because why not? If I'm going to open you up, I just get them both out. And she's like, they're tiny. They're the size of a pencil. One's the size of a pencil eraser. One's the size of the tip of a pen. You know, they're small, but, like, she's like, let's just munch them out there. And there's two methods to do it. There's one that insurance covers, and there's one that insurance doesn't. And obviously, the one that insurance doesn't is the one that's, like, fancier. Less invasive, is just local. They just numb it locally. You don't have to go under general anesthesia. But then my parents were like. I called my mom to consult, and she was like, wait, but you'd have to pay out of pocket. She's like, don't do the one that's out of pocket.
Dory Shafrier
She's like, absolutely not.
Elise Hu
Absolutely not. And I was like, well, Oscar has cost way more than this. But I didn't bring that up. I did not actually bring that. That up because I feel like that would be even more upsetting to my frugal mother. So I. My intention is going to be just to line up more appointments because now I have to get an mri. MRI to see, like, a fuller picture. I haven't gotten one, and people recommend that. And then I have to get my annual eye exam. So I'm kind of like you after a trip, like, just having to get some logistical things out of the way. So I guess my intention is going to be to adult, you know, sure. Book those appointments. Be an adult.
Dory Shafrier
Be an adult.
Elise Hu
Pay my parking ticket.
Dory Shafrier
Be an adult. Okay.
Elise Hu
Putting it out there.
Dory Shafrier
Great. I love that. So this is when we thank our Patreon supporters at the $10 level and above. If you would also like a personal thank you once a month, subscribe to our patreon@patreon.com Forever35. And in the meantime, thank you so much to the following supporters. Eileen Downing, LM Alvin Ariel C. Laura Ciccone, Sarah Liska, Felicia Justice Biro, Jasmine De Jesus, Christy Caitlin H. Katie Ashley Taylor Teresa Anderson, Nicole Gass, Maya Barbara C. Amy Amy Schnitzer, Megan Shelly Lee, Sarah Boozy, Allison Cohen, Melissa McLean, Jackie Leventhal, Fran Kelsey Wolf Donne Laura Eddy Jettle Apti Valerie Bruno Julie Daniel E. Jackson, Alicia Catherine Burke, Amy Maseko, Liz Rain JDK Hannah M. Julia P. Maddie o', Day Marissa Sarah Bell, Maria Diana St. Coco Bean, Laura Haddon, Josie H. Nikki Bossert, Juliana Duffy, Chelsea Torres, Tiffany G. Stephanie Germana, Olivia Fahey, Elizabeth A. Christine Bassis, Jessica Gale, Zulima Lundy, Carolyn Rodriguez, Carrie Gold and T. Katherine Ellingson, Kara Brugman, Sarah H, Sarah Egan, Jess Combin, Jennifer Olson, Jennifer hs, Eliza Gibson, Jillian Bowman, Brianne Macy, Elizabeth Holland, Karen Perelman, Katie Jordan, Sarah M, Kate M. Josie Alquist, Tara Todd, Elizabeth Cleary and Monica. Thank you so much. We are so grateful.
Elise Hu
Thank you. Thank you. Yay.
Dory Shafrier
Forever 35 is hosted and produced by me, Doris Shafreer and Elise Hu and produced and edited by Sam Hunio. Sami Reed is our Project Manager and our network partners, Acast. Thanks everyone.
Elise Hu
See you later.
Dory Shafrier
Bye. We're lost.
Kate Spencer
It feels like we're going round in circles. I'm gonna ask that man for directions. Hi there. We're trying to get to the state fairgrounds.
T-Mobile Advertiser
Well, you're going to take a left at the old oak tree at this here road.
Kate Spencer
Nah, I'm just kidding.
T-Mobile Advertiser
Let me get my phone out.
Kate Spencer
How is there signal out here?
T-Mobile Advertiser
T Mobile and US Cellular are coming together. So the network out here is huge. We get the same great signal as the city, saving a boatload with benefits. And there's a five year price guarantee too. Okay, here's the turn.
Kate Spencer
Actually, can you pull up the way to a T Mobile store?
T-Mobile Advertiser
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Hosts: Doree Shafrir & Elise Hu
Guest: Kate Spencer
Date: May 4, 2026
Celebrating the landmark 400th full-length episode, Doree and Elise reunite with original co-host Kate Spencer for a joyful, wide-ranging conversation infused with humor and candid self-care talk. The trio reflects on the evolution of the Forever35 podcast, the value of self-care practices, parenting teens, sleep hacks, Costco finds, and updates from Kate’s creative life. The episode strikes a balance between nostalgia, practical life tips, and lively banter, making it accessible both to long-time listeners and newcomers.
[02:12–08:07]
[13:41–15:22]
[15:30–18:05]
[19:31–23:25]
[23:32–24:43]
[31:04–35:12]
[38:07–42:28]
[42:31–46:56]
[48:08–49:02]
[49:15–52:37]
This episode is warm, funny, and brimming with practical wisdom and real-life self-care strategies. Kate’s presence brings a nostalgic yet forward-looking vibe to the milestone celebration, and listeners get actionable tips on everything from morning motivation and sleep hygiene to Costco shopping and intentional parenting.
Standing invitation: Kate is welcome back anytime, much to the delight of both hosts and listeners.