Heists, Sweat-Wicking PJs, and Traveling Bookstores with Jo Piazza

Summary

Forever35 — Episode Summary

Episode: "Heists, Sweat-Wicking PJs, and Traveling Bookstores with Jo Piazza"

Hosts: Doree Shafrir & Elise Hu
Guest: Jo Piazza
Date: July 13, 2026

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Overview

This episode of Forever35 welcomes prolific author and podcast creator Jo Piazza back to the show. Jo discusses her new novel, The Parisian Heist, delving into the allure of heists, women’s invisible labor, and the feminist retelling of histories. The hosts and Jo also explore practical and philosophical self-care (from sleep routines to perimenopause), entrepreneurship with Jo’s mobile bookstore, and how communal spaces bring people together. The conversation is equal parts funny, insightful, and candid about womanhood, creative work, and the joys and challenges of midlife.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ann Patchett & Technology’s Impact on Book Events

[01:14 - 04:23]

• Elise recaps her recent interview with author Ann Patchett, who lives without a cell phone.
• Ann’s lack of a cell causes practical issues (e.g., parking apps) and annoys her husband.
• Ann laments smartphones’ effect on book tours: now, anecdotes get shared on social media instantly, reducing the novelty of in-person appearances.
  • “Her husband’s super annoyed that she doesn’t have a cell phone.” — Elise [02:14]
• Hosts reflect on the loss of surprise in live events due to pervasive recording and sharing online.

2. Self-Care and Tech Overload

[04:23 - 06:12]

• Hosts discuss various tactics for limiting phone usage (app blockers) but admit it’s difficult.
• Elise and Doree praise Reddit as an oasis of the “old Internet,” valuing its helpfulness and authentic communities.

3. Jo Piazza Introduction & Career Background

[06:14 - 08:45]

• Jo is introduced as a bestselling author, journalist, podcaster, travel writer, and mother of three, celebrated for her wit and prolific output.
  • “Prolific author. Someone I've known for a very long time. We were in college at the same time. At the same college.” — Doree [00:21]

4. Jo’s Writing Practice & Approach

[09:51 - 11:24]

• Jo shares she writes easily and prolifically due to her background as a reporter—she does not believe in “writer’s block.”
  • “It's mostly me and James Patterson, to be honest... I could actually write books all day long.” — Jo [10:04]
  • “The writing is just like pure joy… what gets me, what makes me so tired... is the marketing, publicity and the publicity selling of books.” — Jo [10:58]

5. About ‘The Parisian Heist’ & The Allure of Heists

[11:25 - 18:00]

• Jo explains her new novel: dual timeline—1996 art heist by women in Paris; historic arc about Jo Van Gogh (Vincent’s sister-in-law), who made Vincent famous.
  • “She had to make him famous and create this mythology around him… She’s the reason that we know Vincent Van Gogh’s name today.” — Jo [12:52]
• The “heist” genre’s appeal:
  • Heists as “Robin Hood” work: stealing from the institutionally rich, often seen as victimless, and inherently rebellious and satisfying.
  • Jo defines “heist” versus “burglary,” citing pop culture examples.
  • Real-world events and how real heisters become folk heroes—“And then it turned out that the Louvre heisters were kind of hot and that made it even more fun for all of us.” — Jo [17:50]

6. Jo’s Self-Care Practices in Midlife

[18:11 - 20:25]

• Perimenopause is framed as a superpower: Jo embraces “massive ease” and losing concern for others’ opinions.
  • “I just do not care what other people think anymore... that has really released me from a lot of stress and pressure.” — Jo [18:19]
• Sleep is prioritized above all (9-10 hours a night); strict about bedtime and avoiding interruptions.
  • “I prioritize sleep at like the cost of everything else.” — Jo [19:05]
• Self-care includes nightly rituals: moisturizing, red light mask, fuzzy blanket, and a Bluetooth sleep mask with history podcasts.

7. Work/Life/Creative Balance

[20:25 - 22:00]

• Jo describes building a career with many “spokes”—books, podcasts, consulting—and only working with non-toxic people.
  • “I will only take on clients that are not dickheads... I just have no threshold for, for toxic individuals.” — Jo [20:34]

8. Feminist Retellings and New Book Ideas

[22:00 - 24:41]

• Jo pitches a reverse Sound of Music told from the Baroness’s POV—transforming her into a rich, sexually awakened character who becomes a Broadway producer.
  • “The Baroness is actually loosely based on Pam Harriman, who was Winston Churchill's daughter-in-law… But then she married the man who created the Sound of Music.” — Jo [23:59]
  • Hosts excitedly imagine its potential for adaptation and viral social media attention.

9. Mobile Bookstore: Creating Community on Wheels

[25:45 - 34:15]

• Jo shares how her perimenopausal sleeplessness led to buying a vintage camper and founding a traveling bookstore in the Catskills and Philadelphia.
  • “A pop up bookstore is just so cool because you’re not paying rent right. And we have a vintage camping trailer that travels around the Catskills.” — Jo [26:08]
• She curates book selections, focusing on personally loved titles and respectful authors.
• Men, in particular, open up at brewery pop-ups, requesting recommendations and more willing to pick up books by women.
  • “I think books by women are not being sold to men... I got so many guys reading the Correspondent and then Sipsworth…” — Jo [28:36]
• Dreaming bigger: launching a Catskills Book Festival and fantasizing about wine-and-cheese bookstores.
• The concept of "third space"—social spaces beyond work and home—can be mobile, fulfilling community needs.

10. On Philadelphia as a Supportive Village

[34:15 - 35:32]

• Jo moved back to Philly for its sense of community and support networks.
  • “I could not do it without this support system for sure.” — Jo [35:29]

11. Hosts’ Closing Reflections

[35:46 - 37:52]

• Doree and Elise debrief on Jo’s energy, local pride, and how her mobile bookstore embodies new forms of community.
• Personal intentions: summer cleaning, framing kids’ art, and using a haircut to escape a “rut.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Marketing, Not Writing, as the Hard Part:

  • "What gets me, what makes me so tired and cross eyed and crazy is the marketing, publicity and selling of books. Right? Like, I find that very tedious. And so doing that on a book-a-year schedule is a lot for me also as like a secret introvert." — Jo [10:58]

• On Women’s Invisible Labor (re: Jo Van Gogh):

  • "I just don't think that after you hear her story... anyone's ever going to look at a Van Gogh the same way ever again." — Jo [13:14]

• On the “Heist” Genre's Appeal:

  • "A heist is like the perfect true crime gateway drug. Like, we could all imagine ourselves as heisters...it almost feels like Robin Hood stealing from the rich and giving to the poor." — Jo [16:25]

• On Perimenopause as Power:

  • "I also kind of think perimenopause is my superpower because I just do not care what other people think anymore." — Jo [18:19]

• On Building Community through Bookstores:

  • "A third space can be anywhere. We could create a third space." — Jo [34:09]

• On Only Working with Good People:

  • "I will only take on clients that are not dickheads... I have no threshold for toxic individuals." — Jo [20:34]

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Timestamps for Standout Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-------------------------------------------|-------------------------| | Ann Patchett, smartphones, book tours | 01:14 - 04:23 | | Reddit & digital distractions | 05:02 - 06:12 | | Jo’s prolific writing practice | 09:51 - 11:24 | | The Parisian Heist—premise and research | 11:25 - 13:31 | | The allure of heists | 15:37 - 18:00 | | Self-care: perimenopause and sleep | 18:11 - 20:25 | | Mobile bookstore origin & lessons | 25:45 - 34:15 | | On Philly as a “village” | 34:15 - 35:32 |

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Episode Tone

Upbeat, frank, and relatable—mixing humor, self-awareness, feminist analysis, and practical wisdom. The camaraderie between Jo and the hosts shines, making for an engaging blend of insights and laugh-out-loud moments around books, womanhood, and meaningful self-care.

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For more product recommendations and episode info:

• Forever35 podcast website
• Instagram: @forever35podcast

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Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Hello, and welcome to Forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Dory Shafrir.

[B]

And I'm Elise Hu. And we're two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.

[A]

And today we have a return guest on the show, Joe Piazza, One of my favorite people, favorite authors, prolific author. Prolific author. Someone I've known for a very long time. We were in college at the same time. At the same college.

[B]

Oh, I didn't know that. Were you friends in college?

[A]

Oh, yeah, we knew each other.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

She's a couple years younger than me, but yeah, we knew each other, and then we sort of had, like, parallel careers after college. Okay. So I've known her forever. So Jo is on the show today, and she's talking all about her new book, which is so fun. Um, I just love her books, the Parisian Heist, which is out tomorrow, July 14th. Yeah, you can check that out. Uh, but before we get to Jo, Elise, how are you doing?

[B]

I'm good. I don't know how I'm gonna be in the future since so much happened in June. Um, but I got to interview recently, and this is. I feel like this is such a champagne or such a. Like a humble brag or just a brag brag. But I got to interview Ann Patchett again because she's now on tour for her new book, Whistler, which I read. I just inhaled over the weekend.

[A]

So cool.

[B]

And Anne is just. And she actually says this. She's like, I know I get accused of being, like, too Pollyannaish and too hopeful about the world and just, like, believing in its decency. And it comes out in all her books, of course. But she really is so buoyant, and she embodies that kind of goodness and this belief that things are going to be better. And so after the end of my very long June, during a time I am grieving a friend and I'm grieving a cat. It meant so much to get to talk with Ann Patchett. And she shared a few things that I'll just share as part of this catch up, because we're also going to be talking with an author later in the show. One is that she still lives without a cell phone. So she has no cell phone, exists without one. And the way that it really kind of gets in the way of her life not having a cell phone, it's mostly great. But one is it really pisses off her husband. Her husband's super annoyed that she doesn't have a cell phone. And then two, it's for parking.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

So so many of the parking meters these days are, are apps or like a QR code in order to park. And so she ends up having to park a lot farther out than she might want to park because she doesn't own a cell phone. So I wouldn't have thought of that. And then the other thing she shared, which is related, is that smartphones are kind of killing book tours in a lot of ways because now she's on this giant book tour multi state swing for Whistler, and so many of her anecdotes are already shared out in the universe on TikTok or on Instagram reels. Oh, wow. So it's kind of like killing the in real life event that made it worthwhile to go to an in real life event because a lot of the like side stories and peek behind the curtain and explain explanation of the COVID and all of that has already been shared with by other people who have attended different stops on the tour. And this is related to conversations that we have had about live events and how so many live events are like just being inside Instagram now because by the time you attend the concert, you've already seen the concert filmed from every seat in the stadium or you know the set list already. And she says that her tour this for this book. And it hasn't been that long since her previous book, Tom Lake came out, but her tour for this book is, it's making really clear the way that live events have now been mediated so much by our screens.

[A]

That's so true. I mean, yeah, we touched on this a little bit in the live casual chat that we did a couple weeks ago. Yeah, it is, it is really interesting. I have been thinking about how I can like force myself to get away from my phone. It's hard. It's really hard.

[B]

Are you using those apps? Kate has used these, right? Like Freedom and those other apps to like brick your phone.

[A]

I, I don't really use them. I, I have them. I could use them. I have downloaded them. I should, I should, I should go back to using them because I feel like it's gotten like out of hand.

[B]

Well, the, the call of Reddit can be so alluring. Rob just recently discovered Reddit and how great it is and what an awesome community it is for camping stuff. Because he's like, I'm headed into the sequoias and the gear that people have recommended, the trail, the tips, the hacks. He's like, I love this place.

[A]

That's so funny. I could see camping being like real, like Redditors being like very helpful because they're so like, the niche interests are so intense.

[B]

Ugh. And that, that I just appreciate the full range of humanity that's on Reddit, you know.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

So that is one of the things I really love about it. Plus, the Internet or the good old Google has been so inshittified, as they say, that by profit motives and whatnot, that Reddit still feels like it has corners or glimpses and glimmers of the old Internet, like the old www days when we first went online. So yeah, I celebrate that. And yet I'm sure it can be hard to turn away from when you're scrolling on your phone.

[A]

Totally, Totally.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, well, let's introduce our guest. For those of you who don't know her, Jo is the national and international bestselling author of the Sicilian Inheritance. We are not like them. You are always mine. Charlotte Walsh likes to win the Knockoff and How to Be Married. Her latest book, the Parisian Heist, is out, as we said, Tomorrow July 14th. Her work has been published in 10 languages in 12 countries and four of her books have been optioned for film and TV. Jo's podcasts have garnered more than 25 million downloads and regularly top podcast charts. An editor, columnist and travel writer, her work has also appeared in the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, New York Magazine, Marie Claire, Glamour, and many other publications. She lives in Philly with her husband Nick Aster, and three feral children. I should say that is her description of her children, not ours.

[B]

We would never, we would never, we would never.

[A]

I would, I would describe them as her three adorable children. Oh. Which, you know, adorable and feral are not mutually exclusive. Before we get to Joe, just a reminder, you can call or text us at 781-591-0390. Email us at forever35podcastmail.com you can visit our website forever35podcast.com. We have links there to everything we mention on the show. We are also on Instagram. At Forever 35 podcast you can join our [e-mail] Forever 35 we have a free level where you get access to our semi monthly newsletter where we talk about pod highlights, product reviews, exclusive discounts, giveaways and more. But then at $5 a month you get access to our weekly casual chat which is now on video. You get our live casual chats. We just did one a couple weeks ago that was super fun. Access to our community chat and the Patreon app and more for $10 a month. You get ad free episodes and a shout out on the podcast each and every month. So head over to patreon.com/forever35 to check all of that out. And whenever we mention our favorite products on the show, we put them on our Shop My, which is basically just like a place where you can see all of our recommended products. So you can check that out at shop my us/forever35. And we will be right back with Joe.

[B]

We'll be right back.

[A]

Jo Piazza, welcome back.

[B]

You're back.

[A]

I'm at 35. You're back.

[C]

I'm back. I'm back. Babies and I, it's. This is better than ever. All three of us are better than ever right now, to be honest.

[B]

I was telling Dor I had like amazing acupuncture and so I feel changed.

[C]

Oh, oh, that sounds so nice. I'm desperate for some acupuncture. I. You know, my old lady neck right now, it just like really needs some loosey goosey.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. I need acupuncture. I need some massage. I'm also due for my annual Botox. I only do a do Botox right before book tours. So that is something that's on. That's like, it's. I'm looking at my to do list right now and it's starred on my to do list. It's like, do not forget to schedule Botox or you will look like a monster if you have to get it two days before you go on television for book tour.

[A]

Except wait, can we just talk about the fact that you get Botox once a year when you go on book tour? Because you go on book tour once a year.

[B]

That's how prolific you are. That's how prolific Jo is when it comes to writing books. It's wild.

[C]

It's wild.

[B]

How do you do it? Like, what is your practice? We want to get into your self care practice, obviously. But let's talk about your writing practice too, because I feel like you are. You're turning out more books than anyone else we know in real life.

[C]

It's mostly me and James Patterson, to be honest. James Patterson wants to collab with me. He should just call me. My or my DMs are open to him. Yeah. You know, here's my honest answer. I could actually write books all day long like it is. I'm very good at it because. And Dory knows this because she was with me when I used to do this. I was a newspaper reporter and a digital news reporter for so long. Like I just had to write. Like I don't get writer's block. I sit down and I churn it out. And also if I get a great idea and I know that it's a good idea, then I will sit down and just write it. Guys, I got the most bananas idea the other day and I'm gonna share it with you here first so that my publishers let me do it because I love it so much and if I say it out loud, they won't have a choice. But. And so if I have a great idea, I just sit down and I write it so I could, I can very easily write the books. That is like not stressful to me. I know it is for a lot of people, but it's how my juices work. What gets me, what makes me so tired and cross eyed and crazy is the marketing, publicity and the publicity selling of books. Right. Like, I find that very tedious. And so doing that on a, on a book a year schedule is a lot for me also as like a secret introvert. But the writing is just like pure joy. Like I actually, I love sitting down and making these characters that are secretly trying to take down the patriarchy while having spicy sex in unusual places.

[A]

Love.

[B]

Love. Tell us about Parisian heist or tell the listeners about it.

[C]

Oh, I'll tell the listeners about it. Yeah. So Parisian heist is so much fun. And it's a dual timeline. Kind of like Sicilian inheritance was and in the modern day. Although I keep saying I'm like in the modern day. And I'm like, actually our modern timeline is 1996, which is apparently historical fiction at this point because it was 30 years ago. But in our modern timeline, which feels like yesterday, we have an all female art heist. Like I don't think that we see enough women pulling off heists. Probably because women get away with it because we're better at doing this than men. So it's an all women art heist trying to take down the largest art dealing family in the world. They are just like awful billionaires behaving badly. A subject close to dory and I's heart. It truly is. And it's, it's, it's a lot of fun. So they're pulling off a heist in the Musee d' Arce in Paris. But the past timeline is so awesome. It's the untold story of Jo Van Go. And she was Vincent's sister in law who inherited hundreds of his paintings that were totally worthless when her husband died just a year after Vincent did. And she had to make him famous like no one was buying these. The art critics didn't like them, buyers didn't want them. And she had to make him famous and create this mythology around him, this brand around him, in order to support herself and her one year old, pretty sick baby boy. She was, you know, a widow in her 20s. And what she did is incredible. She's the reason that we know Vincent Van Gogh's name today. She's the reason that so many of us lost our virginity underneath a poster of the Starry Night in a dorm room. And I just don't think that after you hear her story and all of the labor and the work that she put in to elevate this man who was barely even thought about at the time, I don't think anyone's ever going to look at a Van Gogh the same way ever again. So this one is delightful. And like I said, we have a very spicy scene in the Louvre. Oh, hot, hot.

[B]

You had to do some research in order to paint these scenes and paint these pictures. Was it hard having to go to like Amsterdam in the Van Gogh Museum?

[C]

Oh my God, guys, I, I only said to the Musee d'.

[B]

Orsay.

[A]

Uh huh.

[C]

I only set books in places that I want to go to. Okay. And yeah, it was really hard.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I had to go to Paris not once but twice for research without the kids. And also Amsterdam and also, you know, Auvers outside of Paris where Vincent painted his last, his last batch of paintings. And yeah, really, it's just a, it's a tough life. It's funny though, because I went, I went to kick off the writing of the book, which ended up being my best friend, Glynis McNichol, also friend of the show, who knows Paris very well. Who knows? I mean, she's mostly there to enjoy herself in Paris part of the year. I went for her 50th birthday to kick off the book writing and that was fantastic. And then I went, when I was mostly finished, to nail down everything to be like, did I get all this right? And I just mentioned it in passing to a bunch of the school moms from my kids school and they're like, great, we're going to come. And I'm like, what? And all of a sudden I had these gaggle of women coming with me on my research trip to Paris, which actually made it so much, so much more fun. And. But I did, I did get crazy access, like in the Van Gogh Museum. I got to go through the library and got to read Jo Van Go's original diaries and, you know, see her handwriting and really see, like, all this crazy work that she put in to make this man famous. I mean, it really is. It just makes you question everything about, like, who we elevate, who we culturally care about, and all of the labor that goes into that that we just never see. And, you know, I love talking about the invisible labor of women, but it's packaged in a delicious art heist. Just like glittering art world. Bag of fun is what it is. It's a big old bag of fun.

[A]

Why are we just fascinated by heists, like, as a, as a culture? What is it? And also, can you delineate the difference between a heist and just like a burglary?

[C]

A heist is a large scale robbery, typically of an institution. Right. So it's not like burglaring like someone's home unless that person, you know, were, say, like Elon Musk. That would probably be a heist.

[B]

Right?

[C]

Like when a person is elevated to the level of institution and there has to be a lot, a lot of, like a huge monetary value at stake. So, you know, heists are typically art museums, jewelry heists. That. That is a heist or just massive amounts of money, such as, like a casino heist.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Which we saw in all the oceans movies. But you're not wrong. I think that a heist is like the perfect true crime gateway drug. Like, we could all imagine ourselves as heisters. People have thought, like, how they would pull off a he. And they don't feel guilty about it because it almost feels like Robin Hood stealing from the rich and giving to the poor. And it feels like a victimless crime. It's like, oh, whatever. Like, you know, these museums are so rich anyway. It's not, it's not a place for me. And the bummer about it, because I spent a lot of time with art heist experts, is that museums are the place where the public gets to see these things, where the public gets to experience these things. Most of the time they're. They're nonprofits. You know, they're not actually making money. But there is this sense of, you know, eating the rich when it comes to big heists. And I think that we're often, always rooting for the heisters as well. It was crazy because the. You guys remember the Louvre heist, obviously, which I. I didn't do it. I didn't orchestrate it, but it came out. It ha. Well, it happened the day that my book cover was supposed to be announced after I had already Written the whole book.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

And I called my publisher and I was like, we have to like we. We have to release this cover like immediately. And they're like, well, it's not totally ready. I'm like, no, immediately right now. And I think we were all just kind of rooting for these Lou heists, right? Because we're like, all right, these royal jewels, like why should one family even have this much wealth? And like isn't it kind of ridiculous and ostentatious anyway? And then it turned out that the Louvre heisters were kind of hot and that made it even more fun for all of us.

[A]

Let's just go back and ask you, do you have a self care practice? You seem to be doing a million things all the time. So what do you do to kind of like chill out?

[C]

Yeah, I. And it changes, right? Like I think that my self care, I'm firmly in perimenopause right now.

[B]

I.

[C]

But I also, I hate it. And I also kind of think perimenopause is my superpower because I just do not care what other people think anymore. And so like part of my self care practice is just massive ease, right? Like if I'm gonna go to cool drop off in my pajamas carrying a mug of coffee and not like a to go coffee with no makeup on. I just like I do not give give any Fs anymore. And like I think like leaning into that has really released me from. From a lot of stress and a lot of pressure. I also sleep so much. Like I'm a sleep maxer. I need between 9 and 10 hours of sleep and people ask all the time because I like, you know, write a lot of books and they're like, you must never sleep. And I'm like, no. I prioritize sleep at like the cost of everything else. It is my biggest self care practice. I'm in bed as soon as I get those kids. We've. I've got three kids so putting them to bed is like an opera at night. I have to do so many things and it's different with all of them. It's so annoying. But I'm in bed right after them and then and I'm in my pajamas and I'm like no one is going to touch me. I'm not having night sex. Like that is going to really disrupt my sleep. There are times during the day for that kind of thing, friend. But like not now, not, not when I need to get my. Get my rest. And then I'm also, I'm a freak. About, about moisturizing and my red light mask. I love my red light mask. So I do that right before bed. And I also to put me to sleep because I'm a bad sleeper. I have this manta sleep mask which has built in Bluetooth headphones so I can listen to very esoteric history podcasts spoken by old British men. So the rest is history is my go to. And I fall asleep to the rest is history every night. And Nick doesn't have to listen to it. After I just lather on all of my Sarah V moisturizer over my French A313 retinol and, and crawl into my cocoon of my fuzzy Lola blanket. I have a, I have a favorite fuzzy fuzzy blanket brand. I use the Lola's. Yeah. Um, and I put myself in a cocoon every night and then sleep for nine to 10 hours.

[B]

What are you doing for work when you're not writing the book? Like, is that a good balance for you? Do you want to do more of it? Do you want to do less of it? Where are you at?

[C]

You know, it's an interesting balance right now. And I think that we're all kind of in a world of an interesting balance, teeter tottering on the seesaw of precarity. You know, writing books is my full time job. I'm lucky enough to be able to do it as a full time job. I mean, that said, I've also kind of created, created this entire media ecosystem that includes podcasts, newsletters, and some levels of consulting in terms of digital storytelling, narrative, things like that. But I'm also at a place where I will only take on clients that are not dickheads. And so like, I genuinely will not work with assholes these days. I just, I don't have the time for it. Um, I don't. I have no threshold for, for toxic individuals. I'm very lucky that I get to choose that. But I do like kind of having all of these different spokes of the wheel of what I call a media storytelling company because we just don't know what the world is going to look like five minutes from now or five years from now. And I mean, I'm, I'm hedging all of my bets. In a perfect world, I don't want to do that. I would love to just write books and also to be able to just write books and then not be the person, you know, 75% responsible for those books selling. But that's not the world that we live in right now.

[A]

What do you want to work on Next, like you said, you have an idea.

[C]

Oh, my God. Guys.

[A]

That you want your publisher to.

[C]

I need to greenlight this 100%. Yeah.

[B]

All right.

[C]

Are they listening now? Okay, so the one that I need to get greenlit is a retelling of the Sound of Music from the Baroness's perspective, where. Because she's the best character in the Sound of Music. Okay. Like, she truly is, but we don't have her backstory. So in my conception of this, the Baroness has, you know, she's just. She's a young, ambitious woman. She marries an older man, a baron, you know, just to try to pull herself up from her bootstraps and make something of her life. And then he ends up dead, and she has to figure out who killed him because everyone in Austria suspects her. And so there's this whole murder plot. And then, as she becomes the doyen of high society, she meets a sad widower who has never enjoyed passion in his life. And she has this massive sexual awakening with the captain all over Europe. And then. And then, you know, they get engaged and she realizes she doesn't want to be trapped by seven children, even if they're in boarding school some of the time. So she orchestrates his love affair with a sweet young nun who just wants to wear clothing made out of curtains.

[B]

And then.

[C]

And then she has a final affair with a young, young Nazi sympathizer named Ralph and pulls him back from the edge and brings him to the side of the Resistance, and then retires happily with her best friend Max in New York City and produces Broadway plays.

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

This retelling could. Then. And this could be meta. And I will just. Yes. And you. And say that this retelling after it becomes a book, could become a musical.

[C]

A hundred percent. Like, I love that you're on my wavelength, because I'm like, no, this girl. This is the Sound of Music.

[B]

Think of the ip, Right? Oh, my goodness.

[C]

Think of the ip. Think of the ip. And the coolest part about it is that in my mind, the Baroness is actually loosely based on Pam Harriman, who was Winston Churchill's daughter in law, who was also kind of a courtesan and secret spy for Churchill. Like, she slept with all of these, like, really, really well connected men and brought all of this information to Winston during the war. But then. But then. But then she married the man who created the Sound of Music.

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[C]

I know. Like, mind blown. Okay. I, like, I'm. This has to. I mean, I want to write it right now, but there's just not enough time in the book release schedule

[B]

for

[C]

me to do it. But I'm. I'm now obsessed.

[B]

If anyone can and just, like, churn it out, it would be you. And this is very exciting.

[C]

Thank you. From your lips to the book people's ears.

[B]

Yeah. I wonder if we can just make a social clip of your pitch here. And then it'll already be out there. And then it's sort of like. Well, it's already out there.

[C]

Yeah, that's. It's already out there in terms of. Joe has already, like, you know, just, you know, drawn the line in the sand.

[B]

Yeah, she beat it out. Like, all the beats are there. So, like, you know, and it's. And it's on Instagram, you know, if

[C]

we make on Instagram and it's gonna go viral, you know, as the Parisian heist comes out and then all the press happens and everyone listens to this episod. And everybody wins. All the women win. See, I just. I don't want rage. I just want all tides to rise, all ships. Exactly.

[B]

And to celebrate all women uplifting all of us.

[C]

That's my goal.

[B]

By uplifting the baroness and her narrative. So.

[C]

And imagine the dresses, guys. She's gonna look like, oh, the fashion.

[B]

Okay, let's take a break, and we will be right back.

[A]

Joe, one of the other things that you do that I wanted to talk to you about is your mobile bookstore.

[C]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Tell us how that came about, how it's going. And I'm also curious, like, you've been an author and a writer for so long, but what have you learned from being a bookseller?

[C]

So, honestly, so much like, I've learned more about being an author from being a bookseller. Like, I think it's a really, really cool and informative to be on the other side. This. This is yet another one of my, like, perimenopausal super superpowers. I wake up at 2 in the morning. I'm so sweaty. I'm just wet. I'm drenched in sweat. And, you know, I would love, love, love to ask your audience for recommendations on moisture. Moisture wicking jammies that aren't ugly. Because I have not found any yet. And I think there's a business opportunity there for us to make moisture wicking jammies that are still cute. Because I'm just sweaty at 2 in the morning. And I wake up and I change my jammies and, you know, pee. And then I have these ideas. But unlike, I think, what I would have done in my 20s where I just go back to sleep. I now execute on them at 2 in the morning. So you know, I'm like on Facebook, Marketplace, buying a vintage book trailer, getting an Ingram account. And you know, my husband who runs our media company with me, also helps me helm up the bookstore. But a pop up bookstore is just so cool because you're not paying rent right. And we have a vintage camping trailer that travels around the Catskills. We haven't taken it out of the Catskills yet because Nick is really scared about taking it on the highway as well. He probably should be like, I'll do anything, so I'm not scared. But we pop up in Philly anywhere. We go to breweries, we go to wineries, we sit outside my house. We took over our kids lemonade stand a couple of days ago and that was awesome because we met so many of our neighbors just selling books. But I've learned a ton about like first how readers buy books, how they discover books. People are really desperate to get book recommendations, not necessarily from these celebrity book clubs which have become super political these days and also controlled by the publishers who decide which books get pushed towards them.

[B]

Oh, interesting.

[C]

Like I, and I hear like the different ways that people want to read too. And like, so one of the things that I do is I sit down and I'm like, tell me the last book that you freaking loved. And then I'm like, oh, okay, I've got one for you. And I usually do because I only, I also only stock the store with books that I truly loved and also with authors that I think are genuinely good people. Again, I don't work with, I work with D heads anymore. And so, and then people also, I'm like, let me know what you thought of it. And so everyone like slides in my DMs and tells me what they thought of it. And it, I mean, you could say like, it helps you figure out like trends, like what do readers want to read? But it also helps you figure out how people want to talk about books and how word of mouth happens and how they. And the most important thing I think is people are just desperate to gather in community again. And so by having a place that someone can talk to an author and talk to a bookseller. And I see this a lot for men because we go to breweries. And I think that a lot of bookstores do not often feel like a safe, cozy place for a man to just mess around and brewery. It's true. They're like, I haven't been in a bookstore in years. And that's not the. It's not bookstore's fault. I think it's just like our culture, but like at a brewery, they will sit down and chew my ear off for hours and also pick up books by women. Like, I think it is. It is true that men do not often read books by women, but I also think books by women are not being sold to men. And so, like, I got so many guys reading the Correspondent and then Sipsworth and also remarkably bright creatures. So many men into, you know, my book the Sicilian Inheritance. And it's just because they want to be told what to read and they want to have a conversation about it. They're like, all right, what am I going to like about this book? And there's not enough places for them to get that. And so that's been super, super cool. We just bought the Domain too. This is another middle of the night thing for Catskills Book Festival. So we're going to launch a Catskills Book Festival in August.

[B]

Oh, how fun. And talk about bringing people together.

[A]

I know, right?

[C]

I just want to be in real life.

[B]

Yeah. And I'm going to share my acupuncturist offline with you. But also I want to find out kind of the bar, like to like the threshold that you would have to cross to rent a.

[C]

Or not rent.

[B]

Buy a camper and start a mobile bookstore. Because this is so necessary. I know they're. They exist all over the place. But like, I had wanted. I had this idea to. And ever since I was a little girl, I wanted to own a bookstore or work in one.

[C]

Yes, yes.

[B]

But then as I got older, I was like, I want a bar bookstore. Like, if I were to be a shop owner, I want a bar bookstore. Because it's like bookstore by day, but a bar by night. And like, we have live music and all these sorts of things. We could do our book events but also have a full liquor license. So that was then my idea. And then over the last couple of years, I started looking at places where I like, near me where I could open up a bookstore and make it a bar bookstore. Right. And I was looking at commercial real estate and all these things. And then, I kid you not, like, about six months ago, on the very street where I wanted to have a bookshop, a new bookstore opened called Good Girl Books, which I'm very excited about. I actually made a little TikTok about it because I am very excited about it.

[C]

I haven't been there yet. Like, I. That sounds Wonderful. I need to look it up.

[B]

Yeah, it's, it's new one and it's not too far from me. And I was like, you know what that was? That would have been too much. Like a whole storefront. I can't handle, you know, much. But this is kind of like, oh wait, this is another way to live out this particular dream. Maybe not, maybe not actually be the bar, but just pull up to bars.

[C]

You pull up to the bar. You pull. Because that's my dream too. I mean like we, we are constantly kind of like you. Like we look for a brick and mortar in Philadelphia. But I'm super lazy, right? So like it has to be within like a four block radius of my house. On the way to my kids. On the way to my kids school.

[B]

Exactly. It was by my kids school, which is where I was looking for my bar bookstore concept.

[C]

100%. 100%. And I think that our neighborhood does still need one. But like it has to be a very particular building and like, you know, the investment has to be right and all the things. Because I'm also like an old Sicilian grandma when it comes to money. Like I hoard it under my mattress. So like, I'm not like, I am, I am very risk averse. Okay. When it comes to spending, spending money on anything and but our, our idea is obviously why not a full bar? But because liquor licenses, as Dory knows, are tricky in Philadelphia. But a wine and cheese bookstore, that is a wine. It's a wine bar, really. Wine and beer. Wine and beer licenses are a lot are easier, but then also cheese. To fulfill my dream of also becoming a cheesemonger.

[B]

Oh, hey. Oh, yes, yes, yes.

[C]

And I mean, so the, the number one cheesemonger in the world, Emilia Delbero, is actually from Philly. And I so creepily slid into her DMs, and I was like, hey. Because I read a story that she was like, oh, if I weren't a cheesemonger, I wanted to be a butcher. And I'm like, I wrote a book about a lady butcher in Philadelphia called Sicilian Inheritance. I would like to give it to you. So creepy. And she wrote back. She's like, hi, Jo. I already have it on my nightstand, so thank you. And so now I've, I'm. I'm trying to hang out with her so that she can teach me all of her. Her cheesemonger magic. Because yeah, she's.

[B]

Well, and now I, I will be your Padawan because I need to learn your mobile bookmonger magic because I really like this. I feel like.

[C]

I think you'll love it. Like, I really. I want everyone to do it.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I want everyone to do it. Like, our trailer, it was all, like, super affordable. We got it from my friend Rose, who's a designer, and she was sell. She had a mobile florist, and now it has good juju because that has turned into a brick and mortar florist. But it was so. It was already cute. And we're, like, putting up new shelves when we get to the Catskills this weekend. And we're just gonna. We're just gonna drive it around, like, all day Sunday and park it in weird places and sell books to people and. But. Yeah, but even sitting at the table outside our house when we took over the kids lemonade stand, it just. It really was so cool. I mean, we probably sold, like, 50 books in, like, a couple hours just to people walking by. I mean, and that's. Those are good margins for a bookstore. And we. And we had such great talks, like, just such cool talks about, like, it was election day when we did it. So we were all talking about, like, local politics and stuff, and I'm like, this is what a bookstore is like. This is a community hub.

[B]

This is so third space. Yeah, it's a third space.

[C]

It's third space. Yeah. But a third space can be anywhere. Like, we could create a third space.

[B]

It could be a traveling third space.

[C]

Yeah, we're traveling third space. Oh, my God. I'm going to put that on our website. I'm stealing that right now. Yeah.

[A]

Joe, you. Just before we let you go, you. You mentioned Philly, a city that is near and dear to my heart.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

How is Philly these days?

[C]

Philly's good. Philly's good these days. I mean, I think that all cities are having a rough time right now, just in the political dumpster fire of our world. But, you know, I truly believe Philadelphia is the best city in America. I grew up in the burbs here, and, you know, we went to college there. And I like our. I came back here because I needed a village. Like, I knew that when I was having children, I could not do this on my own. And so many of my friends that I grew up with and also who went college with me had moved back. And, you know, we have this great village. Our kids all go to school together. And I just. I feel really supported. I do not think that women can do all of the things that we are expected to do in this world. That Offers us no safety net without the help of other women. And so I moved to Philadelphia. I had been in New York and San Francisco specifically for that. And I got it. And like I built my village, I was very purposeful in it. And I credit this village with my ability to do all these things that I love and to be able to write these books and make podcasts and do all the things. I could not do it without this support system for sure.

[B]

Jo, you were a delight as usual as always. I love all the workshopping and brainstorming we did today.

[C]

Thank you guys. This was so wonderful. I love seeing your faces. All right.

[A]

It's always so fun to get to talk to Jo. I want to go to Philly to see her. I haven't been to Philly in so long. She's such a big.

[B]

I want to check out her mobile bookstore.

[A]

I know she's such an ambassador for Philly. It's really cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So thank you, Jo, for coming on the show. Elise, did you do some cardio?

[B]

I did, I did. And all thanks to my friend Amanda, who is back from her various summer travels, who I go running with and keeps a schedule. So but for I would not run as much as I do so. Which is not much at all. And then this week, because we are in the swing of summer in the middle of July now, I still haven't framed all those kid art pieces that I've wanted to frame last summer. So I'm going to call my intention summer cleaning because not only do I want to slim down my wardrobe, I also want to do some of the sort of various projects that I wanted to take care of a while ago to preserve the kids work. So I'm gonna do that as my intention this week and hopefully get to it. Now that the kids are in a real swing of camps. What about you? Toss it over to you.

[A]

Well, I am happy to say I did not go crazy at my parents. So yes. Thanks everyone so much for your concerns. Your thoughts.

[B]

The thoughts and prayers reached.

[A]

Your thoughts and prayers. This week I'm getting my hair cut and my intention is to kind of use that as like a jump start. Yeah. To like get a little bit out of my rut of blah. So that is my intention for this week.

[B]

Kind of the blah, blah, blah. Get out of the bloss.

[A]

I'm hoping. I'm hoping the haircut will help get me out of the blouse.

[B]

Yeah. It feels so nice, that scalp massage.

[C]

Such a dream.

[A]

Totally. All right, everybody. Thank you so much. Forever 35 is hosted and produced by me, Dori Shafriar and Elise Hu, and produced and edited by Sam Houston. Sammy Reed is our project manager and our network partner is acast. Thanks, everybody.

[B]

Talk to you next time.

[A]

Bye.