Elise Hu (2:57)

You are an expert in some topics, though. You're. You've become an expert in recreational tennis.

Dory Shafrir (3:04)

Yes. It's also funny you mentioned that, because this morning my friend Jody texted me, and she was like, hey, can I put you in touch with this other woman who I sort of know? She needs some, like, sun clothing recommendations? And I was like, sure. So she texts both of us, and I started, like, spamming her with links to the point where I was like, oh, I should stop. She's like, no, this is great. I love it. And I was like, okay, well, here's another thing.

Elise Hu (3:34)

It demonstrates your expertise in that particular niche.

Dory Shafrir (3:38)

And my passion. And my passion.

Elise Hu (3:41)

And your passion, truly.

Dory Shafrir (3:42)

I was like, oh, no, don't forget about driving gloves.

Elise Hu (3:47)

You don't want one arm to look like a trucker's. And then the other arm did not.

Dory Shafrir (3:51)

Yeah, exactly.

Elise Hu (3:53)

So, yeah, this reminds me that I used to play golf in high school. And you only wear a golf glove on one hand.

Dory Shafrir (4:01)

Yes.

Elise Hu (4:01)

And so I had the weirdest farmer's tan.

Dory Shafrir (4:04)

Oh, my gosh.

Elise Hu (4:06)

I had a much lighter hand, like a one darker one and one lighter one because of the golf glove.

Dory Shafrir (4:13)

Oh, my gosh.

Elise Hu (4:14)

Yeah, of course.

Dory Shafrir (4:15)

Yeah. That's so funny. What a time. Well, how are you?

Elise Hu (4:21)

I'm good. I'm recording today from a different spot because I'm starting to work a little bit for a kids podcast in which we're gonna put out episodes to help parents talk about difficult topics with their kids.

Dory Shafrir (4:36)

Cool.

Elise Hu (4:37)

So later today, I'm gonna interview Virginia sol Smith, former Forever 35 guest, who's awesome. Love Virginia. She's the author of Fat Talk, and she's going to come on and talk to us about how to talk to your kids about body image and fat phobia. And I'm excited about that. And we're going to talk about banned books and all those things, but it is weird, like, going into an office. Usually I walk about 10ft in my soft pants to podcast with you, but today I got up in the morning, I showered, I went and got my tea on my way to work. Like, I got in the car and drove here. I had to head a commute. I'm all discombobulated.

Dory Shafrir (5:18)

Wow. Yeah, it's a whole different. It's a Whole different life.

Elise Hu (5:24)

Yeah.

Dory Shafrir (5:24)

Having to leave the house.

Elise Hu (5:26)

Oh boy.

Dory Shafrir (5:27)

Matt has been doing some like freelance work for this company and he has to leave the house. And so I've been alone in the house all day, which I haven't been in years. And I mean, it's nice. It's.

Elise Hu (5:44)

Yeah. I was going to say, do you love just having the house to yourself?

Dory Shafrir (5:47)

Yeah, it's like, oh, I'm by myself. This is kind of cool. Not that like we interacted that much during the day because we both had, you know, stuff going on. But like, I don't know, it's just different.

Elise Hu (5:59)

Yeah, Yeah, I, I, I do like my Monday mornings because the girls are custody. The way that it works with my girls is they, they are at my house every night. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and then on the weekends they go to Maddie's. And so the only school morning where I don't have like the hectic chaos of getting them out the door and to school and taking the dog out and la la la is Monday morning. And so I do really enjoy a quiet Monday morning without anyone in the house and, and with the possibility of sleeping in for once.

Dory Shafrir (6:32)

Totally. Oh my gosh. Yes. Yeah.

Elise Hu (6:36)

But I, I was gonna tell you, I'm still recovering from the weekend because this past weekend was my friend, our now mutual friend Meredith's big 40th birthday where she did it completely Taylor Swift themed and it was called the Maras tour. And depending on when you became friends with her, you got to sign a different Taylor Swift era in chronological order. So her family was all in Deb era and Earl, you know, her earliest friends, like high school friends were fearless. Maybe a little speak now. And then her pen friends I think got moved into the red era. Yeah, there were a lot of pen friends in red gear. So like they, they did the T shirts and things like who is Meredith anyway written on it and it was so cute. And she had a party planner so this was done up there. An amazing dj, great catering, the venue was lovely. The decorations were awesome. There was a tarot card reader, there was a tortured typewriter poet that was so cute who was typing poems by request. And then there was this whole swag section where you could get your own Marist or T shirt and love her heart sunglasses and cookies for your various era. There was a friendship bracelet making station. The food was incredible. It was like the best non wedding that I had ever been to that was done up like a wedding, like a tens of thousands of dollars party, you know.

Dory Shafrir (8:15)

That's amazing.

Elise Hu (8:16)

Ava Went because Ava was one of the four kids who was invited. And she gave me so much grief because at first I put on this blue sequin dress and came down to see if we looked kind of like we were in the same theme because we were supposed to be midnights era. And she was like, oh, my God, mom, that blue, that's so 1989. That's 1989 blue. Or maybe speak now like she was. I did not have the right blue, and it was a mini crisis, so I had to switch into a more navy kind of sequiny dress. And we coordinated finally. But, yes, even getting the blues right was important. And it was so fun. It was so fun and joyful. And she talked about how, you know, after her dad got sick, I think her dad had a cancer scare a few years ago. And her dad, Papa Joe was there. Her mom, her aunts and uncles from Michigan, everybody was there. Her, her nephews from D.C. wow. She made remarks. The dad made remarks. And during her remarks, she talked about she really wants to expand not just lifespan, but joy span and joy span within a life. And I was really touched by that and thought, yeah, I felt, felt very lucky to count myself among that friend community, because a lot of we all know that we have come to know the same people, like so many of the same people. And it's great. So Happy birthday. Happy 40th birthday to Meredith. And here's to many more, many more happy returns.

Dory Shafrir (9:55)

How cool. What a, what a testament to, like, who she is that she had so many people come to the party from so many different parts of her life.

Elise Hu (10:05)

Yeah. And she didn't want presence. But I do need to write a very heartfelt card. She loves a heartfelt card. And so now that I have been to the party and am recovering from it, I can sit down with her.

Dory Shafrir (10:17)

And remind me how you know her.

Elise Hu (10:20)

I know her through David Green, who was my co or one of the other hosts at npr. He hosted Morning Edition for many years. You would recognize his voice if you heard him, because he was the one who was hosting from Culver City. And from Culver City, California, I'm David Green. They met randomly in D.C. and when she moved out here to LA for a job, we all got together and became instant friends.

Dory Shafrir (10:44)

Elise, before we take a break, we did get a couple of texts and emails that are related to things that you have been talking about. So I'm going to read the first text.

Elise Hu (10:55)

All right.

Dory Shafrir (10:55)

Oh, my goodness, Elise, I just listened to your bird story. I'm traumatized. Just from hearing it. My family. My family's been asking for a cat. We will never, ever get one. What you experienced is my biggest nightmare. I'm glad you're okay. Somebody needs to invent a cat language app where we can tell them that we do not want dead or half dead animals. They should just cuddle us.

Elise Hu (11:23)

I had memory hold what happened to me with Abe. My cat bringing in an almost dead bird to the bed. I had. I had started blocking this out and this.

Dory Shafrir (11:35)

Sorry, sorry to bring it back to me.

Elise Hu (11:40)

Yeah, my eyes are tearing up.

Dory Shafrir (11:43)

Oh, my God.

Elise Hu (11:45)

I'm having. My nervous system is reacting.

Dory Shafrir (11:47)

Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no.

Elise Hu (11:52)

That was so bad.

Dory Shafrir (11:53)

That was.

Elise Hu (11:54)

I don't know which episode that's in.

Dory Shafrir (11:56)

But that was such an insane story. Well, you made an impact on our listeners. And now on a totally different note, we got some Zion Rex from a listener who has kids about the same age as yours. And this listener said, we loved staying at Zion Ponderosa Ranch in East Zion. All kinds of lodging options from glamping to cabins. Kids loved coming home after a day of hiking to a great pool slash hot tub and mini golf through East Zion Adventures. We did the Elkhart Canyon rappelling. Amazing. And the best slot canyon views we got. Of course, hike the narrows on your way to Zion. Stop at Coral Pink Sand Dunes State park so the kids can sled board the sand dunes. This was a huge highlight for our kids. It was one of our favorite trips.

Elise Hu (12:54)

I gotta say, this makes me feel so great because I have been truly daunted about taking my kids to a national park this summer. After the stories about Doge and how they fired the locksmith at Yellowstone or something, and there was an hour long wait for the bathroom and I just. But I also love the national parks and I have great memories of going to them, especially in the American Southwest. Um, when I was growing up, like around Issa's age, maybe fourth or fifth grade, so I've been wanting to do it. We did Yosemite one year, one summer, and then we did Grand Teton in Yellowstone last summer. And so I want to do it again. And actually because of this email, I just went ahead and booked it. I was like, we're gonna do it.

Dory Shafrir (13:35)

Wow.

Elise Hu (13:36)

So we have our tickets to Las Vegas and then Rob has rented the car and we're gonna drive up to Zion and do the things. And on the way we will stop at this Coral Pink Sand Dune State park on this listener recommendation because it does sound super rad. And I can imagine the backdrop being just so majestic and vast. And I, I love, I love that about America and how much diversity there is in the geography.

Dory Shafrir (14:02)

So cool.

Elise Hu (14:02)

So thank you. Yeah.

Dory Shafrir (14:04)

Yeah. All right. We are gonna take a break but before that our voicemail is 781-591-0390. Y' all have been sending us the best voicemails so keep them coming. You can also text us at and email us@forever35podcastmail.com we have links to everything we mentioned on the show at our website forever35podcast.com and our Instagram is forever35podcast. You can sign up for our newsletter at forever35podcast.com newsletter and our favorite products are @shopmy us forever35. And after the break we have a real smorgasbord of listener comments, questions, feedback. So voicemails, texts, we I'm excited to to get into it. We'll be right back.

Elise Hu (14:53)

Okay, we'll get into it. I love a picnic in the spring and the summer, but I always kind of feel like I have to pick up all that pre made stuff from the grocery store which gets really expensive because I don't have leftovers around. Or should I say I don't have leftovers I want to eat. But since I've been using HelloFresh that is no longer the case. Hellofresh makes it easier to fit quick home cooked meals in into your schedule every week by curating delicious recipes like Pasta Primavera, chicken Dijon Pecan crusted trout, plus tons of seasonal snacks, sides and treats. I recently just made the Chicken and Bacon Ranch Pasta Bake from Hellofresh and the whole family loved it. Yeah, my parents were over and I couldn't believe how much it yielded. Like there were suddenly what, seven of us to feed and it comfortably felt fed all of us. Plus there were leftovers.

Dory Shafrir (15:53)

Wow.

Elise Hu (15:53)

So really delicious recipe, excellent deal all around and without compromising on taste, health or homemade quality. HelloFresh has new ready made meals that offer chef crafted flavorful dishes that are ready in just three minutes so you can dig in and get outside to that picnic. Every HelloFresh meal uses high quality ingredients including seasonal fresh produce and proteins that travel from the farm to your doorstep. Feel great with meals that fit your spring schedule and make the season even more delicious. Go to hellofresh.com forever35 10fm now to get 10 free meals with a free item for life, one per box with active subscription free meals applied as discount on first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan.

Dory Shafrir (16:41)

You know I love linen in the summer. But I don't always love linen prices except when I'm shopping at Quince. They have a hundred percent European linen shorts and dresses from just $30 and they also have amazing summery organic cotton items. I got my hands on their 100 organic cotton poplin pintuck maxi skirt. That is amazing. I'm going to be living in this skirt all summer. It is super high quality. It feels just like some much more expensive, very similar skirts. But in general, their clothes are just timeless, lightweight and far more elevated than anything else at this price. And it finally feels like my wardrobe matches my standards. Speaking of standards, Quince doesn't sacrifice safety or ethics for price. They only work with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. By working directly with top artisans and cutting out the middlemen, Quince gives you luxury without the markup. Give your summer closet an upgrade with quints. Go to Quince.com Forever35 for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com Forever35 to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com Forever35 Elise have you ever sat down with your dad or like someone you've known and loved a long time and you say something like do you want to sip on my root beer? And to your shock and surprise they say no thank you, I don't like root beer. And you're like, huh?

Elise Hu (18:17)

You didn't know that? Yeah.

Dory Shafrir (18:19)

Yeah. How did I not know that? Well, it turns out there's a lot about our lives that doesn't always just come up in conversations. Which is why I recommend Storyworth Memoirs to help you collect those little stories that make up your dad, mom, aunt, whoever. Each week Storyworth emails one memory provoking question that you get to help pick. These are questions like did you ever get in trouble in school? Or what were your favorite toys as a child? Then your loved one responds to that email with a story, either written over email or recorded over the phone for Storyworth to transcribe. After a year, Storyworth puts all your loved ones, stories and photos into a beautiful keepsake hardcover book. Photos are printed in vibrant color. The books are truly gorgeous. These are going to be treasures you'll be able to share and revisit for generations. Give the dads, broadly defined in your life, a unique, heartfelt gift you'll all cherish for years. Storyworth right now save $15 during their Father's Day sale when you go to storyworth.comforever35. That's storyworth.comforever35 to save $15 on your order.

Dr. Patrick McGrath (19:30)

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Dory Shafrir (20:38)

Okay, we are back and we are going to start with a voicemail with some feedback about Money month. So here we go.

Listener (20:48)

Hey, Dori and Elise. I just wanted to provide feedback that the financial planner was such a breath of fresh air. I didn't realize how fucking sick I am of rich white people telling me what to do with the money that I don't have. Not understanding systematic issues at play. Just this prescribed if you don't have six months savings you're and a lot where I work, work for the federal government. You can put 5 tsp is like the match, like a, the savings account thrift savings program and they match at 5%. So you're basically losing money if you don't do 5%, which I do. But everybody's like, you're leaving money at.

Listener (21:30)

The table if you don't do 6.

Listener (21:31)

7, 8, 9, 10%. And if I, I've got two kids, I'm living in Washington D.C. daycare, I mean everything's expensive. If I were to put that money into my TSP, which I'll get when I'm 70, I go into debt today because I got to pay for daycare, which is $25,000 a year for two kids. So anyway, it was just like so refreshing and Validating for somebody. I felt like I was really, I do do intuitive spending and I'm, if I must say so myself, I've been doing it for a long time and I'm doing quite well. And I just love that she made me feel valid for going with my gut.

Dory Shafrir (22:10)

Love this.

Elise Hu (22:11)

Yeah, this is the Dana Miranda episode that we have out right now. It's from Monday, June 9th. And she did such a good job of just like having us challenge this matrix that we live in about, hey, you need to have this much saved in retirement and you need to. And if you rent a house, it needs to be only, you know, 25% of your take home pay. And all these rules that we've learned from all these gurus over the years. And she was sort of like, take a step back. I found it super validating too because as I said in the interview, I also haven't been operating with a budget. And I think that we do learn all of these rules from various gurus. And like, I remember you're not supposed to, you're supposed to have the three to six months and then you're not supposed to ever rent a place that's more than 25% of your monthly take home. And all these various rules. And Dana Miranda, which is the Monday episode our caller is talking about, she really challenges us or encourages us to challenge that entire matrix because as she pointed out, like, none of these various hacks and financial tips work if you're not making enough money to live, which is the case for so many of us. So it was really helpful and eye opening. Eye opening, to say the least.

Dory Shafrir (23:28)

Yeah, I mean, I think, like, the problem is that we exist in this system where like, sometimes you can't rent an apartment if you don't make more than, you know, 3x the rent or whatever. And it's like we, we butt up against some of these, you know, rules. So. But I thought it was really valuable to kind of challenge our thinking about our whole capitalist system. Okay. So we also recently heard from a listener who I think was like about to get laid off or like thought they were going to get laid off. And another listener had some advice.

Listener (24:11)

Hello, this is Courtney calling from Denver. I was just listening to the mini app where a listener wrote in about facing down another layoff. I loved all the advice that Elise had. I just had two additional thoughts. So actually on my way to work, where I work as a career counselor at a collegiate career center, this is actually part of my, like, internship as I finish the clinical phase of My master's in counseling. But I find that oftentimes people forget that most universities and colleges have career centers, and most of them do support undergrads, graduates and alumni. It kind of differs by each institution. So my institution actually offers, like, unlimited sessions to alumni. If you're at a phase in your life where you're. You've been laid off, you're thinking about a career change, you're just feeling unmotivated or like unhappy in the work that you're doing, if you're really burnt out, like, you can meet with a career counselor. And most of us come from this background in mental health. But that could be a really great resource if you want to talk to someone about where you're at in your career and what's next. The other, like, workbook and book that I really love is called Designing youg Life. It's two Stanford professors and it offers a bunch of really great exercises around, like, what work means to you, what's important in your life, what type of work energizes you. And that is a book that I found a couple years ago when I was really burnt out in my job and found it to be really impactful. And I always recommend it to friends and folks who are in a similar phase. So the listener might find that interesting too. Thanks so much for everything you do and hope that listener kind of finds an insight as she navigates a layoff.

Listener (26:03)

Thanks.

Listener (26:04)

Bye.

Elise Hu (26:05)

Designing your life.

Dory Shafrir (26:06)

Some good advice in here.

Elise Hu (26:08)

Yeah, that was very helpful. Thank you.

Dory Shafrir (26:10)

Yeah, we got an email from a listener who said, heard you guys talking about tennis mantras when you're in a bad spot, mentally in a game. And I wanted to share mine. Someone once told me, and then I checked it, that Federer only won 54% of the points he played. I always remember this and remind myself that I only have to win the next point or that losing half the points isn't terrible. Yes, I feel like this has been going around or something, but it's, it's true. I mean, and you know, Elise and I were talking about the French Open men's final, Alcaraz versus Sinner, and it was like so close. So, yeah, I think this is, this is really good, really good advice. Maybe, maybe Alcaraz was saying that he.

Elise Hu (26:55)

Actually gave a post game press conference where he said even though he was down, he. He saved three match points in the fourth set.

Dory Shafrir (27:03)

So, I mean, he was about to.

Elise Hu (27:05)

Lose the championship three different times and just played the next point and won the next point and was able to save himself and continue on. And he actually talked about how he was like, I only focus on the next point. Like, I don't. I don't give up. I never, ever give up. And it was just like, great. Because if I were in that situation, I'd be like, okay, I'm not gonna try. But no. He pushed it to five sets and a fifth set tiebreak. It was crazy. And this Federer stat. Federer himself brought it up in his really excellent 2024 commencement speech. I don't remember which university he gave it at, but maybe.

Dory Shafrir (27:48)

You know what? I think that's why it started circulating now that you mention it, his commencement.

Elise Hu (27:54)

Speech from last year's graduation. So we're back in graduation time. But from 2024. Graduation season is so good. I found it deeply inspiring. And listeners, I recommend it if that's a commencement speech that you haven't gotten to see or hear yet.

Dory Shafrir (28:09)

Yeah, I think, you know, saying telling yourself, like, one point at a time, one point at a time can be helpful. Just our. At a recreational match this past weekend, one of our players was playing a singles match, and she had lost the first set and she was down.05 in the second. And then she came back to tie it 5, 5. And then they ran out of time and like this sort of complicated USTA timed match procedure went into effect, but she ended up winning the match.

Elise Hu (28:42)

So show you.

Dory Shafrir (28:44)

Just goes to show you. I mean, that's crazy. And just, you know, similarly, when you're up 5 0, you can't take it for granted.

Elise Hu (28:53)

Absolutely either.

Dory Shafrir (28:54)

So. All right, we got one more text about curly hair. We've actually gotten a lot more. I'm being like, a little bit selective because some of them have been repetitive. But this person says, I have wavy curly hair. I'm also white, and I use a cream and gel combination. Hair foam is also sometimes part of a combo for curly hair and can help with frizz. Both foam and gel can create a cast around the curls that you break once it's dry. And this can help a lot. With frizz. I wouldn't necessarily go for a hair oil, but my hair is also fine and it def. Can weigh it down. Technique in applying product and drying also matters a lot for controlling frizz. I have found at Wavy Curly on Instagram really helpful for technique for gel. I like not your mother's gel, which doesn't have alcohol. That can also increase frizz.

Elise Hu (29:50)

I didn't know about this at Wavy Curly. Well, I don't have at Wavy Curly Hair, so Right. But, but my middle daughter does, so I'm gonna give them a follow. Great.

Dory Shafrir (29:59)

There's also a curly hair subreddit that has a couple of things pinned, like beginner curly hair processes. And a lot of people, they're sharing their, like, curly hair journeys. So you could also check that out. And that's just R slash curly hair on Reddit.

Elise Hu (30:21)

Cool.

Dory Shafrir (30:22)

All right, we are gonna take another break and when we come back, we have a voicemail about childcare. And Elise, we're not done with feedback about Oscar, so you know what?

Elise Hu (30:34)

I need it.

Dory Shafrir (30:35)

Oscar needs another email, so thank you.

Elise Hu (30:38)

We'll talk about that when we come back.

Dory Shafrir (30:41)

All right, we'll be right back. Okay. We are back and we have, as promised, a voicemail with a question about child care.

Listener (30:58)

Hello.

Listener (30:59)

I have a question about your child care situation. I have a two year old and my partner and I work full time and it's really hard to do anything, period, because we always need childcare. It sounds like you go out and do things so much of the time and you definitely have older kids than I do, but you also have more kids collectively than I do. So I'm just so curious, like, how do you go out at night? Can the kids babysit each other? How many hours are the nannies with you? Do you have random other babysitters? I am just so curious and jealous. And you're my inspiration. Thank you so much. And hello to my sister.

Elise Hu (31:50)

Really good question. And part of the answer is I had my small children when I lived in Asia. So I had a two year old and then both my newborns in Asia. And all those toddler years, we lived in Seoul, South Korea, where having child care, affordable child care 24, 7 live in situation is so much more affordable. It's true for my brother who lives in Hong Kong as well. And so Yanni, who was a, who's an Indonesian caretaker and helper in all sorts of ways, she actually took care of my grandfather. So two generations removed.

Dory Shafrir (32:33)

Wow.

Elise Hu (32:34)

Back when she was in her 20s and lived with my grandfather and my grandmother in Taiwan, and after Issa was born in South Korea and I didn't have any help, my mom was like, we need to apply for a visa to try and get Yani to Seoul to take care, to help take care of your family and your kids. And so like, I had to go to the immigration office in Seoul and get her residency and everything. But we got it for her. And Yani was with our family for seven years and seven really crucial years in which they My children were the smallest and it's absolutely clutch. I write in the acknowledgments of my book that she was the nucleus of our family and everyone. And this is like why I'm very. I just think care is so important and then the infrastructures for care and like the social policies that support care and caregiving and caretaking is so vital because I don't think I that our family would have like made it through such a crazy busy period and I wouldn't have survived and thrived without Yani being such a crucial part of our household. Now that my kids are older, I have Ling Ling, who's who works like 20 hours a week. She works like 4pm to 9pm and gets us through all of the really chaotic hours of dinner, homework, bath time, getting ready for this for school the next day, lunches as needed. You know, I'm driving the kids around the schlepping hours. She's like, she's a real partner in that because I am single momming. And so having Ling Ling there is a. Is a great, almost kind of a co parent situation where I can kind of pass off. I always think like, it's. It's helpful to be able to tag out as a parent. And then Maddie, my, my actual co parent, my ex husband, he does a lot of the schlepping and driving. We have three kids, so there's always responsibilities, there's always a lot of kids. There's always somebody needed to do something. But with Ling Ling, Maddie and myself, then we at least have like man on man. So. Yeah, thanks for the question.

Dory Shafrir (34:44)

Yeah, good question.

Elise Hu (34:46)

Yeah.

Dory Shafrir (34:46)

Okay, Elise, we continue to get advice for you about Oscar and I need.

Elise Hu (34:52)

It, so bring it on. Bring it on.

Dory Shafrir (34:54)

Okay. This is from our listener Barb, who says, elise, we have a golden retriever puppy that is close in age to Oscar. Maisie is a female. She just turned 11 months old and is about £50. We haven't gone through anything quite as intense as you have, although we have many behaviors that we're working on. She is a counter surfer and will take things off our counters, even if it's not food. She also likes to rip up blankets, so in her crate right now, we don't even have one. Basically, what I wanted to tell you was that we have now hired an independent dog trainer who is fantastic. I live in Connecticut, so that obviously won't help you. But not only are we relearning some tricks to address the issues, but we are also learning why these issues are occurring. I Think basically a sniff walk daily is good, where you kind of let them walk and sniff and you can go slowly so there's no rush. Walks in general don't really take away the energy the puppies have. One of the activities we do with our dog is we take a flirt with pole, which has a toy at the end of it. The flirt pole kind of looks like a fishing rod. And you take the flirt pole and move it back and forth, and they chase and try to get the toy at the end. That's one activity that our trainer said uses their brain and also gets them tired out. You might want to Google flirt pole activity to see what it actually looks like, because you have to keep the rope and the toy close to the ground. But her firm belief is that dogs need to have their brain challenged, and that makes them more tired out than physical activity. Maisie loves chasing a ball, but now we make sure we have her sit, we have her weight, we throw the ball, she brings it back. We've taught her how to drop all of these things, take a little bit of brain work and tire her out. Supposedly, we invested in an obstacle course and the flirt pole was part of it. But we will then bring out the jumps, tunnel, etc, one at a time until she learns the activity. All of these work their brain. If you have the means, I would suggest looking for a trainer who could work with you one on one. This got very long. I hope it's helpful in some way.

Elise Hu (36:41)

I hadn't heard of a flirt poll before. I did buy all the puzzles that people have recommended, and Oscar just destroys the puzzle itself. Like, instead of there's puzzles with little drawers, you know, where you have to open the drawers to get a treat. Yeah, you just chews the crap out of the entire puzzle.

Dory Shafrir (36:57)

Oh, my God. Bo. We got puzzles for Beau and he just. He just did them really fast. And then we were like, okay, this is sort of pointless.

Elise Hu (37:07)

That did not occupy them for 20 minutes. Yeah, they promise that that pupsicle that they're supposed to lick is supposed to occupy them for 20 minutes. It does occupy the Popsicle, does occupy Oscar, but for minutes. So I'm not sure the $40 was worth it.

Dory Shafrir (37:23)

Yeah, probably not.

Elise Hu (37:25)

Yeah, we need to just have somebody come regularly, like a trainer come regularly and. And work with him on various things and really work with the family and work with Rob and me and the girls on a bunch of different things. So thank you. Thank you.

Dory Shafrir (37:36)

All right, everyone, thanks so much for listening. Elise, great to see you. And we will talk to you soon.

Elise Hu (37:42)

Talk to you soon.

Dory Shafrir (37:43)

Bye.

Elise Hu (37:47)

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Dory Shafrir (38:48)

Yeah.

Elise Hu (38:49)

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