Dory Shafrir (2:32)

That is an existential question that I had not really, like, wrestled with.

Elise Hu (2:38)

I mean, it's small compared to, like, the population of the U.S. which I think is almost 400 million, but it's a good chunk of the population.

Dory Shafrir (2:46)

Well, yeah, because, like, how many journalists are there in the U.S. like, 50,000. Like, there's not that many.

Elise Hu (2:52)

Yeah, but it's. I think it's fewer newspaper reporters than there are coal miners is the stat. Because there were more newspaper jobs lost since the year 2004 than coal mining jobs.

Dory Shafrir (3:07)

That is just something. That is something.

Elise Hu (3:11)

It's a staggering statistic. I talk about it a lot.

Dory Shafrir (3:16)

Oh, boy, oh, boy, oh, boy.

Elise Hu (3:19)

We have a lot of stuff, a lot of your correspondence to get to today. But just for a quick catch up. Door. How was volunteering at the library? Tell us about your morning.

Dory Shafrir (3:31)

Yeah, I volunteer at the library at Henry school every Friday. What is. And I do it during his. When his class has library. Oh, yeah. So he likes to help me shelf books, which is, like, very cute. And he gets really into it. He's like, okay, this has to be alphabetical. But, you know, like, he's. He's very. He's very funny. So. Yeah. So it went well. He was upset, though, because he had forgotten his library book. And he was like, mama, you forgot my library book. And I was like, I didn't forget your library book. I tried to get.

Elise Hu (4:07)

I didn't forget anything.

Dory Shafrir (4:08)

I was like, I tried to get you to put it in your backpack last night, remember? And you said you wanted to wait until the morning. So I did not forget your library book. That is your responsibility. And it reminded me of our executive functioning conversation that we've been having.

Elise Hu (4:22)

It also ties into our conversation for next Monday's show. So definitely check that out. Just a little teaser Y.

Dory Shafrir (4:31)

So it was good. And they allow him, like, if you forget your book, you're allowed to put a book on hold and then just like, swap it out when you come back.

Elise Hu (4:41)

Yeah, that makes sense.

Dory Shafrir (4:42)

With your book.

Elise Hu (4:43)

So kids these days aren't learning the Dewey decimal system, are they? Like, is the Dewey decimal system just over Rip or.

Dory Shafrir (4:51)

Henry's school library uses the Dewey decimal system for nonfiction.

Elise Hu (4:57)

That's great. Yeah, I remember having to learn that, like, in school library, like in elementary school. So I thought it was gone.

Dory Shafrir (5:07)

I worked in the library in college. It was my work study job. I worked in the fine arts library at my school. So, you know, this is just a return to form for me. Right, Shelby checking books out yeah.

Elise Hu (5:22)

You know what, though? It shows a lot about what your passions are because you're willing to do it even for free, you know? So it's like, this is clearly something that I feel connected to at a soul level, you know? So. Yeah, books.

Dory Shafrir (5:35)

It's true.

Elise Hu (5:36)

Very cool.

Dory Shafrir (5:36)

How was your morning?

Elise Hu (5:38)

I have been super productive today. I finally took. I took all of the tapes that I wanted to digitize to the digitization place. So that's a big step. And they said it would only take a week. And I was like, what kind of crazy stuff do you guys see? And he was like, it's pretty unbelievable because, like, it's all these people's old tapes, you know? And like, I gave him two birth videos that he has to deal with, so good luck to him. And then I got a bit. I got off to a bit of a slow start this morning, despite all the productivity later, I got off to a slow start because I don't set an alarm. I generally, like, my body knows to wake up around seven because that's when I have to get out the door to take Ava to zero, period. And even on the weekends, I'll still wake up at seven just because I'm so used to it. Today I woke up, but then if I need to wake up before that, the alarm is Ava. It's Ava around 6:40 or 6:45 going, Mom. And that's how I know to wake up. And this morning I didn't get my alarm. Like nobody called me. And so I Woke up at 6:50 with a start, like nobody. My alarm didn't go off. This is really weird. And I go downstairs and Ava was still dead asleep. She just. I don't know her. Hey, Google didn't wake her up. And so then I. We reversed roles. I had to wake her up this.

Dory Shafrir (7:02)

Morning.

Elise Hu (7:05)

And she freaked out. We got out the door, you know, she got ready kind of in the car. But part of the reason why I was running behind was because I was stuck at a valet waiting for my car to be returned to me for 30 minutes. So Sam and I went to this thing for Patreon creators that Sam Sanders.

Dory Shafrir (7:28)

There's a lot of forever 30 million Sam's. Yes. I feel like we need to clarify. Yeah.

Elise Hu (7:35)

Running the show. Sam Sanders and co host of Vibe Check and the host of the Sam Sanders show, my longtime NPR colleague. Sam and I go to this Patreon event which Dory and I had decided early in the day that we were going to bail on because no offense to our Patreon hosts, by the way, but it's an hour long drive for you.

Dory Shafrir (7:56)

For me, I did not have the drive excuse. It was actually quite close to where I live. I just had. I had the. My social battery feels like very low. And I just. I was like, I cannot wrap my head around having conversations with people I don't really know. I just was like, I don't feel up for it tonight. And. And Elise was like, oh, I don't think I can go either. But then you rallied.

Elise Hu (8:24)

I rallied. And here's why I rallied. I got a text around 4. I had even wrote them and said, hey, you know, I know I confirmed, but I'm sorry, I'm going to have to decline. And they just hadn't written me back. So around 4, Sam texted me and was like, what are you wearing? And then I remembered that Sam was also going to and we hadn't confirmed. And I was just like, oh, yeah, okay, I'm going to have to pull it together. And I told him, I was like, okay, if it's going to take longer than 90 minutes, I'm going to bail. Like, if it's a 90 minute drive, I'm going to bail. But if it's like around 45 to an hour, I will try and make it. I'll just be a little bit late. And so ultimately it was about one hour to get there. And so I made it. Met so many interesting creators. We were seated across from not just three, but four reality TV podcasters. One has a show just about Vanderpump, or started Vanderpump and then kind of continued in that universe. Two of them are Bravo shows and that are kind of Bravo show watch podcasts. And then the fourth is the host, a guy named Matt, who's very lively, who hosts something called Reality Gays. And they specifically don't cover Bravo reality. So their whole interest is we only do reality shows that don't appear on Bravo. Like they do Love is Blind, for example, because that's not a Bravo show. And some other ones that are fascinating that I had never heard of before. There was one about pig farmers in Texas. There was one who does like the presidential cooking TikTok. Like it's called like Cooking with. No, I don't want to get it wrong, but basically what he does is he eats what a president ate for the whole day. This guy has like a million TikTok followers and he'll just like, okay, this is what Woodrow Wilson ate in a single day. And he would just like eat liverwurst or Whatever it is, and just eat it all day and.

Dory Shafrir (10:27)

Oh, that's kind of amazing.

Elise Hu (10:29)

No, it's so cute. He's such a nerd. Cooking with Congress. Yes. The Instagram and the TikTok is called Cooking with Congress. He will eat like America. So he'll eat the same foods that are very popular in a particular district, so like the New York sixth District. And he'll eat that. But then, for example, he has up here he ate beefsteak and kidney pie for a day because that's President John Quincy Adams diet. Then he eats like the Eisenhowers. Sure, it's so hilarious. So I met him and then the other guy who has a great show and I haven't listened to it yet, but I want to is Aita Pod. And he mines Am I the asshole on Reddit? Yeah, that's a good idea for great content. And then he and his co workers or colleagues or co hosts will come and like, discuss them. And the thing about Am I the asshole on Reddit? Is most of the answers are, yes, you're the asshole. So he goes to a separate subreddit, which is like, am I the asshole filter or something. And he's like, those are the thorny questions. Those are the. That's the subreddit for Am I the asshole Questions that actually can generate a lot of debate. Like, people have different takes on it. And so he uses that for his podcast. And he had invited me to go on to consider Am I the asshole Questions until I learned he lived in Echo Park. For those of you who understand Los Angeles, I live in basically Venice. So it's like a bicoastal situation. And I probably won't do it now as a result of our distance. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, lots of funny stories, but I know we have a lot to get to, so we do have a.

Dory Shafrir (12:13)

Lot to get to. So we are going to take a little break and come back with some comments, questions, concerns, et cetera from our listeners. But just a reminder that you can email us at forever35podcastmail.com you can call or text us at 781-591-0390. Our website is forever35podcast.com there's links to all the things we mentioned on the show. We are on Instagram @forever35 podcast. We post clips from our interviews on Instagram. They're often very funny, so you should check those out. Our newsletter, recently taken over by Elise, is forever35podcast.com newsletter. And our favorite products are at shopmy.us/forever35 and I also just want to put in a quick plug for our Patreon because on our Patreon you get our weekly casual chats, you get ad free episodes at the $10 level. You get our monthly pop culture episodes. You also get a shout out on the podcast every month as a thank you. Yes. And there's a seven day free trial so you can just check that out if you are interested. And that is@patreon.com forever35 all right. Now we will take a break and we'll be right back.

Elise Hu (13:33)

We'll be right back. Mattresses are one of those things growing up that you don't think too much about and then you become an adult who has to buy your own and suddenly your bones hurt more. And then you realize that good mattresses can cost a lot of money. So when it came time to get my daughter a new mattress and I knew I wanted to get her something that would be good for her now and as she grows. It's specifically made to support growing bodies with multiple layers of memory foam and it's Greenguard certified so I know that Ava can rest her face on there without worrying about what chemicals she's breathing in. Ava loves this new mattress. She's been sleeping better. She reports sleeping really deeply and she gets to luxuriate in there. Leesa mattresses are meticulously designed and assembled in the US for exceptional quality. Plus they back it all up with free shipping, easy returns and a 100 night sleep trial. They're also about positively impacting the earth. They donate thousands of mattresses each year to those in need while also partnering with organizations like Clean Hub to help remove harmful plastic waste from our Oceans, go to leesa.com for 25% off a mattress plus get an extra $50 off with promo code 5forever exclusive for our listeners. That's le.com promo code forever for 25% off a mattress plus an extra $50 off. Be sure to enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you Lisa.com promo code forever. The thing I love about fall weather is how easy it feels to look polished and stay warm with a nice sweater and with quints you can do both those things and save big without compromising on quality. If you're not ready to say goodbye to summer though, and it's still pretty hot out here where I am, got the high waisted European linen shorts from Quince that have been treating me really well. It's a great lightweight fabric that still feels like quality and didn't cost more than $30 if you're ready for fall. I've been eyeing wool coats. They look designer level but just a fraction of the price. And the quality is just as good, if not better. By partnering directly with ethical top tier factories and cutting out the middleman, Quint delivers luxury quality pieces at half the price of similar brands. It's the kind of wardrobe upgrade that feel smart, stylish and effortless. Keep it classic and cozy this fall with long lasting staples from Quint. Just go to quint.comfore35 for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U I N C E.comfore35 to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quinn.comfore35.

Dory Shafrir (16:16)

All right, we are back. We got this text that said hello Dori and Elise. I just listened to the latest mini episode and want to comment on Dory's quote saltiness. I absolutely loved it. Dory, I would say you sounded confident in your beliefs, like someone who cares about integrity, not salty or self righteous. You saying that you didn't want it to sound self righteous makes you sound self aware. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I want more of it. It was very enjoyable to listen to. Also, Dory, I think at some point you mentioned that you're somewhat hesitant to reach out to folks in your network regarding your job search. I've worked in the learning and development field, corporate training for about 15 years and love sharing my expertise and experience. I always tell people they do me a favor when they reach out for my opinion or advice. I'm convinced I'm not alone in this. Of course I don't know everything advice is just that some of it may resonate with you and some of it may not.

Elise Hu (17:08)

That's a sweet note.

Dory Shafrir (17:10)

Very sweet note. Very wise words. Thank you listener. I so appreciate this. I'm happy to go on more rants at any time. I have a lot of thoughts and now you have given me permission.

Elise Hu (17:24)

Right?

Dory Shafrir (17:25)

Watch out.

Elise Hu (17:26)

Encouragement even. Yes.

Dory Shafrir (17:30)

So one of the things that I was ranting about was.

Elise Hu (17:35)

Like packaging and.

Dory Shafrir (17:37)

What we do about empties. Yes, empties and wastefulness and samples. And we did get, we did get a few messages about this. The first one I I was thrilled to receive this text. Hi there. I'm an actual expert in packaging. I have a PhD in the field.

Elise Hu (17:59)

I love our listeners.

Dory Shafrir (18:00)

Did you know you could get a PhD in packaging? Because I did not. That is amazing.

Elise Hu (18:05)

I'm sure that I'm not what it says called specifically.

Dory Shafrir (18:08)

Maybe it is. What if this has, like, on their wall? Ph.D. in packaging.

Elise Hu (18:14)

Yes.

Dory Shafrir (18:15)

We don't know. They wrote a thesis on. They wrote a dissertation on packaging. I'd like to read it. I have a lot of thoughts based on your short conversations about empties programs, recycling and reuse. The most useful thing for the environment is to only buy things you use completely. There are lots of refillable beauty packages, but sanitation and shelf life is a huge reason why you don't see them in bulk bins. Okay, that makes sense. Sanitation. Yeah. If you want to understand how recycling actually works, Adam Minter is a great expert to follow.

Elise Hu (18:50)

Okay, fantastic.

Dory Shafrir (18:52)

All right.

Elise Hu (18:53)

I have a friend who went and got like a certification at mit, so you can do online school at MIT in the circular economy. So I guess it's sort of similar.

Dory Shafrir (19:01)

Ooh, should I get that?

Elise Hu (19:04)

Well, I mean, it's not to. She has another job, you know, and so I, I don't, I don't think it's too taxing on your time. And now I can always circular economy and be like, I need to get a new compost bin. Which one should I get? And how do I participate in this circular economy? Better. So, yes, shout out to my friend Skyler in Texas.

Dory Shafrir (19:27)

It's part of their sustainability course. Color me intrigued. I will be delving into this more.

Elise Hu (19:37)

All right, our next one is about color analysis, which is very popular these days. It's been a whole thing in Korea. People, when they go to Korea to do their various skin procedures and cosmetic surgeries, they're also getting color analysis because the color analysis is so detailed and now it's like a real global thing. I'm going to write read about this in our email. Hi Dory and Elise. I literally just paused the mini app to send you this email first after years of having one of my college friends bug us all to do color and style analysis. After she had it done, we got together for a girls weekend and a group session with a house of color. This is C O L O U R Stylist. It was expensive, but worth it and a really fun thing to do. As a small group, I already had a pretty good sense that I was a winter, but my other friend was an autumn and it blew her mind. She's already been getting tons of compliments because her skin tone is popping now that she was wearing better colors for her. For me, the style part was the most helpful as I've gained weight in fun new places as I've gotten older and kind of gave up with the whole style thing during COVID this was the kick in the ass I needed. I got a style archetype that feels like me, which has given me a framework for shopping rather than just buying what's trendy. During my session, I told my stylist that I always felt schlubby dressing down like everyone else does here in la. And she looked me dead in the eyes and said, but you don't have to dress like that. It was therapy. Now I'm getting compliments too. Not only because I look more put together, but I have more confidence in how I look. Some days it's as simple as adding lipstick. Highly recommend. Second, I've done both at home and in office laser hair removal and liked both. I got the smooth skin one after my sister had success with it and it did a pretty good job on my legs, armpits and bikini line. Though hormonal shifts caused some regrowth. A couple years later, there's a new one from the nude. I think that also doubles as a red light therapy device, and if I were buying now, I'd probably give that one a try. I did an in office removal for my forearms recently because that hair was a little finer and those results have also been great. It didn't hurt very much at all. I should note that my dark hair and lighter skin tone do make me a good candidate. You two are the best. Thank you. Thank you, listener Chelsea.

Dory Shafrir (21:53)

Wow. Okay.

Elise Hu (21:55)

Laser hair removal. Still getting. Still getting lots of advice and recommendations on that front. I have seen nude N o o D that is home laser hair removal device definitely on my Instagram.

Dory Shafrir (22:08)

I feel like that has been advertised to me. For sure. For sure. I also love that the stylist said, but you don't have to dress like that. That's very funny. Okay. We also got a voicemail about laser hair removal that I will show you. Share.

Listener Voicemail (22:30)

Hi, I'm just responding to the person who was asking about at home laser hair removal. I do have one by Braun that I've had for a couple of years. I really love it. I was like, why did I wait so long to do this? They're not cheap, but I do think they're probably significantly cheaper than doing it at a facility. You know, if you're doing most of your body. I did legs, armpits, bikini area. It was awesome. Except for like if you get lower in the bikini area, my skin does get darker there and I think it just struggled a bit. So that may Be something to do in office if you really want it all gone. But for like, armpits super fast and legs too. I've been really happy. I should say. I'm in my late 40s. I think my hair is getting thinner overall, but it was. It was great. Love it.

Elise Hu (23:20)

Okay.

Dory Shafrir (23:21)

Okay. I feel like our listeners are definitely on board with at home laser hair removal. So this is. This is great info. All right, just one more email before we take a quick break. This listener named Shalaka wrote in to say just pause the pod on the latest mini app and the person who called in about having sensitive skin and not liking samples. It made me think about something I've been doing for years. I have specific skin and makeup products that I use and like and don't feel the need to deviate unless they get discontinued. When I'm offered the wee samples at the store, I just. Drum roll. Turn them down. I realize this sounds self evident, but it took me years to realize that I could do that. Instead of just taking them and throwing or giving them away to people who don't really want them, I have no one to give them to who would want them. Unlike the collar, if enough people do this, then they'll slow down the useless production of samples. How many times have we all mindlessly just accepted the sample that comes with a purchase just because. Why not? Well, this is why. Love you both, Shilaka. Wow.

Elise Hu (24:24)

Yeah, we can just say no to stuff. I know. It's really. It's actually like, speaks to a whole, you know, social problem with women. We're socialized to, like, be pleasing, you know, Take your sample.

Dory Shafrir (24:36)

Thousand percent. Yes. All right, well, we are going to take a short break and when we come back from the break, we have a sort of like, grab bag. Yeah, we have a grab bag. Something about JLo movies, jeans, a lot happening.

Elise Hu (24:56)

Burnout.

Dory Shafrir (24:57)

All right.

Elise Hu (24:57)

Yeah.

Dory Shafrir (24:58)

Okay. We'll be right back.

Verizon Advertiser (25:05)

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Dory Shafrir (25:16)

You haven't changed your hair in 15 years. Selfies, check, please.

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Elise Hu (25:34)

When you're a forward Thinker.

Verizon Advertiser (25:36)

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Elise Hu (25:38)

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Dory Shafrir (25:56)

Okay, we are back and we got an interesting question from a listener about burnout. So I'm going to read this. Hi, Elise and Dory, longtime listener and huge fan here with a question for the Forever 35 community on burnout. TLDR. Has anyone successfully recovered from severe work burnout without quitting the job causing it? Context. I'm a mom of a 4 year old and a 2 year old who has worked in advertising for almost 15 years. I'm good at what I do and enjoy the team I lead and the work itself. But recently my physical and mental health has taken a rough turn and I'm just now realizing it's the result of severe burnout. RTO return to office mandates a deluge of 24.7slacks and colleagues without boundaries. I'm sure others in the community can relate. What suggestions do folks have for setting a new tone in an environment where everyone is struggling with burnout? Is it even possible? I have the privilege of an extremely supportive boss and peers who want to do better but are stuck in a rut of bad habits. Thanks for all you do, Dorian. Elise, this podcast has helped me through two pregnancies and postpartum periods, plus much more, and I'm so grateful for the wisdom of this community.

Listener Voicemail (27:10)

Hmm.

Elise Hu (27:11)

I also would go to the community on this too, because this is a big question about how do you. How do you kind of like, go through the stress or. Or like process the burnout without stopping the thing that causes you the stress? And it sounds like. It sounds like there are a lot of positive qualities to the job. Is this a matter of setting some boundaries around your time or around your scope of work? I don't know, Dora, what would you say?

Dory Shafrir (27:46)

I mean, one thing I would say is I think that you can set the boundary with the 247 slacks. Like, I would set a, you know, an automated message to respond to people that you don't respond outside of work hours. I know it sounds crazy, but I think you can do it. I think the change starts with you. Like, you work in advertising. With all due respect, this is not something where you need to be working at 1 in the morning. Like, it's just. It's just not like, you know, it's not a life or death situation. I understand. I understand people have deadlines. I understand people have projects. But even so, I don't care. You should not be. It should not be a one in the morning situation. It should not be a 247 slack situation. And if people are, are consistently working overnight, then there's like a bigger cultural problem. Like, I just don't think it's appropriate to expect to have to work around the clock. It's just not. Again, with all due respect to advertising, I don't think it requires that level of commitment. I just don't. Like, we're not curing cancer here, and even if we were, I wouldn't want you to do it at 1 in the morning. So this is a hill I will die on.

Elise Hu (29:10)

Right. This is one of those work norms, you know, like the advertising industry can be so insane. It's very sort of like youthful centric. And the. I totally get it that, you know, Rob works in advertising or has. And then my bestie Liz is a big advertising, you know, C suite person and they just like grind you down. Yeah, but like such a work norm for that industry. And so if you're going to stay in it and not leave your job, then a, take good care of yourself. Like make sure you're engaging in the kinds of activities that help you kind of metabolize stress. Whatever it is, whether it's exercise, whether it's, you know, connection and maintaining a good strong connection with your loved ones and your colleagues, whatever it is, take good care of yourself. But then also work within the system to try and set some boundaries for yourself.

Dory Shafrir (30:05)

And I think that one of the boundaries starts with not responding to slacks that come in at one in the morning. It can wait. It can wait. I don't care what it is, it can wait. The other thing that I would say is, I don't know, maybe there is a way to like rethink your role. Maybe there's another position at the company that you could take on. Maybe it's this particular role that is really draining. I don't know. I'm just like riffing here because you do say that you don't want to quit your job and you say you.

Elise Hu (30:49)

Have a really supportive boss. So I feel like this is something that you could actually work with the boss on, on changing some norms around the office.

Dory Shafrir (30:57)

I agree.

Elise Hu (30:58)

Essentially just say so that it's not just you saying, I'm not going to respond in the middle of the night. You and the boss could together say, all right, we're going to have some boundaries around slack, where after a certain time, you know, we will not respect or expect a response correct. Or between the hours of, you know, 9pm and the next morning or whatever. Don't expect your colleagues to respond. Like set the norm from the top or get your boss to. Especially if they are a supportive boss.

Dory Shafrir (31:25)

Mm. And maybe take a vacation. Like maybe just take a vacation. Maybe you need a reset. But I'd love to hear what other things people do. Like maybe day to day to have more balance in their work lives. Like do you take a walk every day? Do you make sure not to eat lunch at your desk? Do you, you know, like those kinds of things. Like what are some things that you do to combat these feelings? I would love to know. Okay, we are just gonna read one more text, very important one, which says I'm listening to the mini app 461 and the conversation about JLO movies came up again. I meant to send this in previously because I feel so strongly about it. The best JLO movie is enough. A lot of suspense and she kicks some serious well deserved ass in the end. That's all. Have a great day. I have not seen this movie, have you? Me neither.

Elise Hu (32:32)

No.

Dory Shafrir (32:34)

So I'm gonna have to take your word for it. But you know, color me intrigued. All right, listeners, thank you so much. And yes, keep those emails and texts and voicemails coming.

Elise Hu (32:48)

We want to hear about burnout.

Dory Shafrir (32:50)

Yeah, definitely call or write in if you have any thoughts on anything we talked about this week. All right, we will talk to you soon.

Elise Hu (32:55)

Bye. Okay, bye.

Verizon Advertiser (33:04)

Dude, did you order the new iPhone 17 Pro? Got it from Verizon. The best 5G network in America. I've never looked so good. You look the same. But with this camera, everything looks better. Especially me.

Dory Shafrir (33:15)

You haven't changed your hair in 15 years. Selfies check please.

Verizon Commercial Voice (33:20)

New and existing customers can get the new iPhone 17 Pro. Designed to be the most powerful iPhone ever. With eligible phone, trade in and unlimited ultimate any condition guaranteed. Best 5G root metrics data United States 1H 2025 All Rights Reserve trade and additional terms apply for all offers. See verizon.com for details.

Verizon Advertiser (33:33)

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