Dory Shafrier (2:45)

Oh, man. I'm sorry. Yeah.

Elise Hu (2:50)

How are you doing?

Dory Shafrier (2:51)

You know, I'm. I'm pretty good. Just, you know, getting. Getting stuff done and. Yeah. Cleaning out. Cleaning. Starting to clean out my office. I sent you a before and after.

Elise Hu (3:05)

Yes. You're making progress with your office.

Dory Shafrier (3:09)

So Matt had an idea which was to divide the office into six zones.

Elise Hu (3:19)

That's so cute.

Dory Shafrier (3:20)

That's so fun. Every day we would tackle a zone. Oh, so we started yesterday. And it was so funny. He goes, wow, that only took us, like. That took us less than 45 minutes. And I was like, yep. And it was there for, like, four years. But I mean, I think that is the thing with all these things that, like, just we put off. Yes. Sometimes it's physical things that you're looking at, like a messy office, and sometimes it's like some admin.

Elise Hu (3:57)

Calling a friend.

Dory Shafrier (3:58)

Calling someone. Yeah, exactly. That you've just been putting off and putting off, and then you actually finally do it and it's like, no big deal.

Elise Hu (4:05)

Yeah.

Dory Shafrier (4:06)

And like, I know that on a. On an intellectual, rational level.

Elise Hu (4:10)

Yeah.

Dory Shafrier (4:11)

But on, like a lizard brain level, it's not there.

Elise Hu (4:14)

That's what gets us.

Dory Shafrier (4:15)

That's what gets us. Yeah, exactly. So I'm like, God damn.

Elise Hu (4:21)

Would have only taken 45 minutes all along.

Dory Shafrier (4:24)

Yeah, exactly. It just seemed like, oh, my God, it seems so daunting. I think also his idea of breaking it into pieces was smart because it was like I would look around and be like, oh, where do I start? Dart. Like.

Elise Hu (4:37)

Yeah.

Dory Shafrier (4:38)

The whole thing just felt so overwhelming. And we've managed to keep the front of the house, like, pretty clean.

Elise Hu (4:46)

Great.

Dory Shafrier (4:47)

So that is. Yeah.

Elise Hu (4:49)

You're ready for your. You're ready to host your next monthly play date.

Dory Shafrier (4:52)

Yeah, exactly.

Elise Hu (4:53)

If you want.

Dory Shafrier (4:54)

If we want.

Elise Hu (4:54)

If you want.

Dory Shafrier (4:55)

Yeah. What else is going on with you?

Elise Hu (4:59)

I'm getting ready to travel a bit. I'm going to St. Louis, the city of my birth. What up, STL? What up, 3, 1, 4 area code. I'm going there end of next week for one of Ava's travel volleyball tournaments.

Dory Shafrier (5:13)

Nice. I was.

Elise Hu (5:14)

I was sitting at a scrimmage last night with some other moms, and they were talking about St. Louis and what food we were going to order. And I was like, why are we talking about St. Louis? That's like, way off in the future. And they were like, elise, it's next Thursday.

Dory Shafrier (5:28)

Oh, my God.

Elise Hu (5:29)

I just like, I. I don't know. Everything's so abstract. To me, I just try and get through each day. And yeah, apparently it's next, so hopefully I'm ready for that. It'll be fun. I don't really like Ava missing school, because a lot happens in the school day now.

Dory Shafrier (5:47)

Yes.

Elise Hu (5:47)

You know, there's, like, a lot of assignments, and I'm not sure that she's gonna be all on top of it, though. I'm trying to, like, be a trusting teen parent and just be like, you know, best. You know, like, you got this, I believe. Because that's what they need. Like, they need the independence. And so I'm just gonna be like, I trust you've got it. Yeah. And. And so I'm trying to do that and hope that she is on top of it. I do notice that she writes on her hands a lot, like, little reminders.

Dory Shafrier (6:14)

Oh, that's interesting.

Elise Hu (6:15)

That reminds me of myself when I was a kid, because I'd be like, oh, yeah, I gotta, like, go return that to my. The library or put that in my locker. So it was funny because when she does slates for auditions, you have to say like, hey, I'm Ava Blythe. I'm from Los Angeles. I'm five nine. And then you show the fronts and backs of your hands. And so when I was like, why. Waiting for her to hold up her. The fronts and backs of her hands. I. I looked at the back of her hands, and it had, like, phone numbers on it, and it had like,

Dory Shafrier (6:46)

oh, that's so funny.

Elise Hu (6:47)

Go wash your hand.

Dory Shafrier (6:49)

Wait, why do they have to hold up their hands often?

Elise Hu (6:52)

Because, like, if, say it's a Lunchables commercial and they have to, like, pick up their. Oh, pick up.

Dory Shafrier (6:57)

Oh, I see. I see.

Elise Hu (6:58)

You know, pick up a piece of cheese out of it. So they need closer up shots of their hands. So they just want to make sure they don't have any. Get any surprises.

Dory Shafrier (7:05)

Oh, that's so funny.

Elise Hu (7:06)

Yeah. It's not because of hand modeling or anything.

Dory Shafrier (7:08)

Yeah. Or I was like, is there some sort of, like, we want to make sure you're, like, not A.I.

Elise Hu (7:14)

right.

Dory Shafrier (7:15)

And, like, looking at your hands will tell us.

Elise Hu (7:17)

Right, right, right. Yeah, that will tell. That will be the tell.

Dory Shafrier (7:20)

That makes sense. That's. Yeah, yeah. All these little details that you would never know.

Elise Hu (7:24)

That's how I know she's written on them. And anyway, so we are gonna go. We're gonna go to St. Louis and probably not spend any time getting to see St. Louis. I'll probably spend three days in a volleyball gym. But that's all right, this is my lot in life. This is what we have elected for this year. And then my ex husband, we're like, let's have a very reasoned discussion as a family before we do this next year. Like, do we want to do this right? Is this how we want to spend our time and money? How much does Ava want to do this? So anyway, St. Louis is coming up, and then after St. Louis, I think it's Vancouver. I get to go to the very last TED conference in Vancouver. We are moving out of Canada, which I actually think is poorly timed because it's difficult for a lot of the speakers to get visas into the United States in this environment. So it might be better to keep it.

Dory Shafrier (8:19)

Oh, that's interesting.

Elise Hu (8:20)

In Canada, actually. But that decision is way, way, way, way, way above my pay grade.

Dory Shafrier (8:26)

Right, Interesting, interesting. Well, Elise, we actually got a couple of messages that I want to read before we.

Elise Hu (8:35)

Okay, great.

Dory Shafrier (8:36)

Last mini episode, I think, was the last one someone was asking about shampoo bars.

Elise Hu (8:41)

Yeah, yeah, I remember.

Dory Shafrier (8:43)

And a listener texted us and said, shampoo bar user here. I use the Ethyk curly bar. I'm also trying to use less plastic. And my rule of thumb is something that is supposed to be sudsy is good as a bar, but if it's supposed to be a lotion, slash creamy, I don't like a bar. Oh, that's interesting. Maybe I haven't found the right one, but I went back to regular conditioner. I get a big bottle, so I don't buy it as often and also use it as shaving cream, per Dory's suggestion. I also use more conditioner than I used to and I think that helps too. Maybe we were all just under conditioning.

Elise Hu (9:23)

Under conditioning.

Dory Shafrier (9:24)

I don't know. But it's interesting that, like, a lot maybe. And also, like, hair texture does change. So, like, maybe as we, like go into our 40s and perimenopause, it's like, oh, we need more conditioner now. Just a thought. I don't know.

Elise Hu (9:39)

Maybe.

Dory Shafrier (9:40)

Okay, next text we got, we will put all of these links on the website because this listener sent a few links with recommendations, but they said, in terms of sweatsuits, pilling, why not get a sweater shaver? I love mine and it makes everything look great. And they link to the one that they use. They also have a shampoo bar. Bar recommendation. I love when a listener has multiple recommendations. And their shampoo bar is from a company called Kitsch and it is rosemary. It is a rosemary and biotin shampoo bar. It Looks pretty cool actually. It's like in the shape of a S. This is interesting. It says the one that they use, it says it's for fine, limp and delicate hair. Okay, I might try that. Or try a variety pack from Ethik, which is the brand the previous listener recommended.

Elise Hu (10:34)

Yes.

Dory Shafrier (10:35)

And it looks like they have shampoo bars in different varieties. So like, one is for dry hair, one is for all hair types, one is for curly hair, one is for oily hair. So. Wow. Shampoo bars have come a long way. I've not like looked into shampoo bars in a very long time. And they also say I don't love a bar conditioner.

Elise Hu (10:57)

Okay, the people have spoken. I'm sensing a trend here.

Dory Shafrier (11:03)

Wow. Okay, that is very interesting. All right, we are going to take a short break. Before we do that, just a reminder that you can call or text us with your shampoo bar recommendations, your sweatsuit pilling suggestions, or really anything else at 781-591-0390. You can also email us at forever35podcastmail.com. You can also email us a voice memo. We love getting those. Visit our website forever35podcast.com for links to everything we mentioned on the show. We are also on Instagram @forever35 podcast. Our favorite products are also at Shopmy US Forever 35. And just a reminder that our Patreon is at patreon.com Forever35. We have a free tier where you just get our newsletter which comes out every couple of weeks that also has recommendations and other fun stuff. And then we have a five dollar tier and a $10 tier. At the $5 tier you get our casual chats, our monthly pop culture rec foundation episodes plus the newsletter and the chat on the Patreon app about pop culture. And then for $10 a month you also get ad free episodes and a shout out on the podcast each and every month. Oh, and I should also mention our casual chats are now on video. So if you are someone who enjoys watching video podcasts, you can do that through our Patreon. All right, after the break we have a listener voicemail with who also addresses several recent mini EP topics including plants. Okay. And skincare routines. And they also give your book a shout out. Just a little oh thanks. Little preview. And then we have a big existential question from a listener. So we will be okay.

Elise Hu (12:45)

We'll be right back.

Dory Shafrier (12:49)

The gift of a framed photograph is really perfect for every occasion. If it's someone's birthday, a photo of someone or something they love graduation that pic you snapped from their very first day. Photos show you're paying attention and you care. An aura frame does too. We have an aura frame. My parents have an aura frame. Matt's parents have an aura frame and it's amazing because we can just keep them all updated at the same time. With pictures of Henry. He loves adding pictures to the frame. He loves looking at his own frame. And then I love getting text from the grandparents, like talking about the cute pictures that we put on. It's really special because Aura has made it effortless to share your photos and videos through the free Aura app, and now you can even just text photos straight to your frame. And best of all, Aura has free unlimited storage. That means you can send Grandma, dad, or whoever as many photos and videos as you want. Aura Frames Perfect Gift Every time Name number one by Wirecutter you can save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com for a limited time. Listeners can get 35 doll off their bestselling Carver Mat frame with code Forever35. That's a R A frames.com promo code Forever35. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply.

Elise Hu (14:06)

This episode is brought to you by Pura. After winter's stillness and closed up windows, Spring invites you to open things up. With pur's Spring collection, you can explore scents inspired by place places like a sunlit terrace or blooming gardens. Places that bring to mind open air drifting through familiar room rooms. Spring isn't about starting over, it's about layering in something new. And Pura's Spring collection is about small sensory shifts that refresh your space and how it feels to be in it. Open the door to Spring with Pura.

Dory Shafrier (14:41)

Okay, we are back and I will play this voice memo.

Listener Caller (14:47)

Hi Dori and Elise, I'm calling in response to the most recent mini episode and I have a couple of reactions and comments and questions, so do with this what you will. First, in response to the listener asking about container plants in Connecticut, two resources I wanted to share. One is an organization called Wild Ones and they promote native landscapes. I am not in Connecticut, but it looks like they have a chapter in Connecticut so I'm familiar with my local chapter and they have a lot of resources so that could be a really great place to start and they would likely have some ideas for native plants and flowers that would be fun for the kids and pretty and work well in your climate. So that's Wild Ones. The second is Seed Savers. Exchange might not be exactly what you're looking for for the flowers but just wanted to shout them out. That's they they promote heirloom seeds. So another neat organization. And then I was so excited to hear from the caller with Burnout who was balancing a busy career and motherhood. And I'm actually just really heartened by the response. I just wanted to say good job to to her and I think it's quite inspiring to have those conversations at work. And then finally, in response to the skincare question from a caller first just wanted to say that if folks haven't yet read Elise's book Flawless, I just finished it and I know Elise, you've kind of referenced some of the ideas from that book in your time on the podcast, but I got a ton out of your book and think it's just incredible the perspective, the context that you share, kind of how you set it all up and where Korean beauty fits into kind of larger socio political context and sort of what it means for where the beauty industry is heading. I found it really eye opening. And the 10 step routine that you mentioned on the podcast, you know you talk about in your book. So just shouting that out and plugging your book, Elise. And I thought I would share my skincare routine. So I have been doing morning and night cleansing with Biossance Squalane Plus Amino Aloe Gentle Cleanser and then doing Vitamin C CeraVe Skin Renewing Vitamin C serum. And in the morning I will put on a tinted moisturizer with SPF. It's Bare Minimals Complexion Rescue Broad Spectrum SPF 30. It's a mineral sunscreen moisturizer. And in the night instead of doing that I will put on either CeraVe Moisturizing Cream or Cosrx Advanced Snail 92 all in one cream. So that's mine. Trying to do this kind of simple cleanse treat, protect that you said Elise. So I really like that framing. Okay, but here's my question. My CeraVe vitamin C is old, I don't know how old and it is brown and it smells like soy sauce. So on the packaging it says formula may still experience a change in color over time but will remain effective. But the Internet thinks it's no good anymore. So I'm asking you what do you think? Is this still use it or is it time to replace it? And then my second question is the Bareminerals Complexion Rescue Tinted Moisturizer, do you think SPF 30 is enough?

Elise Hu (18:35)

Well first of all, thank you so much. Thank you for reading the book and seeing it and experiencing it how I intended. So that's awesome. Um, I also like Cosrx products. I like their snail mucin stuff, too. I think we've talked about it, as in the past, so. Yeah. Curious how the moisturizer is going to go. I use the snail mucin essence, I think, or the serum. And if the vitamin C has changed so much that it smells like soy sauce. Yeah, that doesn't sound like it's still. I would toss it active in the same way.

Dory Shafrier (19:14)

Yeah, I would just. I would just toss it

Elise Hu (19:18)

also. You don't want to put that smell on your face, do you?

BetterHelp Ad Voice (19:21)

So.

Dory Shafrier (19:22)

No, no, no.

Elise Hu (19:24)

Smells so salty.

Dory Shafrier (19:27)

If you, you know, if you're. If you're worried about, like, wasting product or wasting money, I totally get that. But I. I think it's time to toss that vitamin C. And if you want to get a replacement, I think Timeless makes a great vitamin C serum. And their prices are really reasonable. And they're also constantly having sales, so, like, even their regular prices are reasonable. And then there's almost always some sort of sale going on. So just FYI. So her other question was about her sunscreen and whether the BareMinerals 30 SPF tinted sunscreen was enough. Oh, that's right. I use 30 SPF. I think the thing with sunscreen is that you do have to reapply it. Like, whether it's 30 SPF or 100 SPF, if you're not reapplying it and you're out in the sun or you're exposed to the sun, then, like, it's not going to be effective 10 hours later. So.

Elise Hu (20:23)

Right.

Dory Shafrier (20:24)

I think 30 SPF, I think is fine. But are you a. Are you using enough of it? People often don't use enough sunscreen. And then also, are you reapplying it? Those would be my two big questions for you. Thank you.

Listener Caller (20:40)

Good answer.

Dory Shafrier (20:40)

Good answer. Thank you. Thank you so much. Okay, another gardening question. I guess it is gardening season.

Elise Hu (20:46)

Yeah, it is.

Dory Shafrier (20:48)

All right. This listener texted us. Hi, I'm looking for first time gardening advice. I recently bought my first home in Seattle. Congratulations. And there are already a couple garden beds. I'm so overwhelmed by how to even start. Do I need to take out all the soil that's in there and start fresh? What grows well together? What grows best in Seattle, et cetera. Are there any good resources for very beginner gardeners? Of course, I could ask AI, but hoping to avoid that.

Elise Hu (21:15)

Okay. I would say if you already have garden beds, one of the easiest things to grow are herbs.

Dory Shafrier (21:21)

Oh.

Elise Hu (21:21)

So you could always just start with some herbs. You could do that in your window even. But. And like lettuces. Lettuces are very easy. My dad knows what a beginner I am. I'm like a perpetual beginner in a few things. Gardening and tennis and both. My dad is very aware of and he's, he's always like, why don't you just keep it to herbs and some lettuces? Oh, that's so funny because you'll get to see the results very quickly. So yeah, like we have scallions and basil and rosemary and all those things kind of stay alive. I can't screw those up. But then beyond herbs, I'm curious, like what sort of plants do really well, I don't, you know, we have roses, but that doesn't, you don't need a box for that. So I'm curious what the Forever 35 hive mind has to say.

Dory Shafrier (22:14)

Me too.

Elise Hu (22:15)

Oh, and then she also asks about the resources too. So if there's great resources that are not AI, please send your love to.

Dory Shafrier (22:22)

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Elise Hu (23:50)

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Dory Shafrier (25:11)

Okay, next this is the big existential question I was referring to.

Elise Hu (25:17)

Okay, here we go.

Dory Shafrier (25:19)

My family has the opportunity to move to another country. My spouse and I have two kids, ages 10 and 11. On paper, it makes sense. Better health care, excellent schools, a chance for our kids to grow up learning another language with a broader world view. Our family has always traveled a lot and this kind of adventure is something I've kind of daydreamed about for a while now. And I'll admit the idea of idea of affordable health care and not worrying about things like school violence is incredibly appealing. But I feel guilty. Our country feels like an increasingly unsafe place, but I feel like I'd be abandoning ship when things get hard. So many people don't have the option to leave and I recognize our privilege, but so many others are choosing to stay and fight for the country they believe in. I'm not even sure if I believe in this country anymore, or if there'd be anything left for my kids to inherit. Which also makes me incredibly sad. So guilty and grieving. It's a lot. I go back and forth between feeling very sure this is the right move for us and feeling like we'd be making a huge mistake. Uprooting our lives, selling our house, switching schools, leaving friends, changing jobs would be a long, difficult process, but ultimately worth it if it meant we could have the kind of life we want for our family. I guess I'm Wondering whether other listeners have made a similar international move with kids. Did you struggle with the guilt? How did your kids handle it? Do you regret it or was it the best decision you ever made? I think I just need to hear from people who have stood at the same crossroads and can tell me, I don't know, that it's okay to want something different for your family. Thanks for creating such a thoughtful community where I feel safe asking this.

Elise Hu (26:41)

Oh, I did it. I did it 10 years ago. I don't regret it at all. I think it's the best decision I ever made. I had never even set foot in Seoul, South Korea before. I hadn't had a layover there and just moved my family at that point. A toddler, a 16 year old beagle and two elderly cats to a place I'd never been or visited and didn't speak the language. And I was five months pregnant. So I.

Dory Shafrier (27:09)

But I completely.

Elise Hu (27:11)

Other than that it was chill.

Dory Shafrier (27:13)

It was a no brainer.

Elise Hu (27:13)

It was very chill. But the reason why is we can't know. It's like one of those things where you can't know this experience in the absence of it. You have to actually do it to find out how expansive it can be.

Dory Shafrier (27:28)

Yeah.

Elise Hu (27:29)

And it is true that leaving friends, switching schools, selling your house, changing jobs is difficult and a lot of bureaucracy and tedious. And it was very difficult for us to adjust to a country that was so culturally different and where we did not speak the language. So I couldn't even read street signs. I didn't even know that a sandwich shop was a sandwich shop, you know, or a coffee place was a coffee place until I learned to kind of read. And so. But I have to say it was so worthwhile for the kids just to normalize so many different kinds of perspectives and different ways to live and to be, I guess what they call third culture kids, which is it's not a place where you. Not the place where you were born and are a citizen, but also you're not of the place where you're living really. So yeah, I think it's completely worthwhile to your question about how so many others are choosing to stay and fight for the country they believe in. You can still fight for the country that you believe in from abroad. Like I wasn't any less American when I was abroad. And in fact I feel like I became more patriotic and I say that as different from nationalistic. Like I believe in my country and I love it. And because I love it, I reserve the right to criticize and Critique it, I mean, because that's, to me, a show of love, because I believe it can be better. And I felt like getting that perspective abroad and seeing how the rest of the world views America, it helped me see my home country much more clearly. T.S. eliot has this great quote, and I remember learning about it in geography class, like in 11th grade or 12th grade, about how, like, it's only the people who leave home and return to home who can really see the home very clearly. And I feel that way. And I feel like there's a great way to sort of be an American and believe in its values and befriend and make community with other migrant workers abroad. We say expatriates, and then it's like, wait, what? In the US we call them migrant workers, like other expats abroad.

Dory Shafrier (29:46)

Yeah.

Elise Hu (29:47)

And kind of think about how to solve for so many of the policy challenges or, like, social problems in the US by getting a different perspective. So it is richer in some ways to be able to fight for the country you believe in after seeing a different perspective. So I think that could be really enriching for you.

Dory Shafrier (30:08)

I agree.

Elise Hu (30:08)

How did the kids handle it? My kids were younger. You know, my kids were 2 and then in the womb, and then 1 was born abroad. I think 10 and 11 are great ages to be. They're not. So they're not in those, like, early teen years where their friendships and getting independence from you are so important to them. So I feel like in elementary school that might be a really cool time. And then you get to make new friends from across the globe that can be your friends for life, which is certainly how I feel about so many of my friends from Korea. So I'm interested in hearing what other Americans who have gone abroad have to say or Canadians who have gone to Australia or, you know, if you've left your home country with your family. How you all thought about it. But just answering from our perspective that it is a long, difficult process, but ultimately worth it.

Dory Shafrier (31:02)

I also just want to note that it doesn't necessarily have to be permanent.

Elise Hu (31:07)

Right.

Dory Shafrier (31:07)

Like, you might come back in five years and that's okay.

Elise Hu (31:11)

Yeah.

Dory Shafrier (31:11)

So just want to offer that. All right, well, thank you so much, everyone. Thank you for your questions and we will talk to you soon.

Elise Hu (31:21)

Okay, Talk next time.

Dory Shafrier (31:22)

Bye.

Elise Hu (31:29)

Dreaming of getting the all new iPhone 17 Pro designed to be the most powerful iPhone ever.

Listener Caller (31:34)

Then stay in bed and let a boost mobile expert deliver and set it up up for you.

Elise Hu (31:37)

Oh, actually they will have to get up and open the door. Oh, right. Delivery available for select devices purchased@boostmobile.com terms apply.

Hayden (31:44)

Howdy, howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.

Stephen (31:52)

And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball. But you can call me the Smash Daddy.

Hayden (31:56)

And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Stephen here has not read Mistborn before.

Stephen (32:05)

That's right. Hei hei. So each week, you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chapter.

Hayden (32:10)

And along the way, we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next. Spoiler alert. He'll be wrong.

Stephen (32:17)

News flash. I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday, and you can find Fantasy fanfellas wherever you get your podcasts.