Replay - Ep 309: How to Enjoy Yourself with Glynnis MacNicol

Summary

Forever35 Episode 309: How to Enjoy Yourself with Rachel Goodwin

Release Date: December 23, 2024

Introduction

In this engaging episode of Forever35, co-hosts Doree Shafrir and Elise Hu sit down with Rachel Goodwin, the acclaimed author of No One Tells You This and I Am Mostly Here to Enjoy Myself. Together, they delve into Rachel’s latest memoir, exploring themes of self-care, aging, cultural narratives, and the profound connection between food and sensuality. Throughout the conversation, Rachel shares personal anecdotes, insightful reflections, and humorous observations, offering listeners a nuanced perspective on embracing oneself and defying societal expectations.

Guest Background

Rachel Goodwin returns to Forever35 after six years, bringing fresh insights from her recent move from New York to Paris in 2021. Her memoir, I Am Mostly Here to Enjoy Myself, chronicles her experiences in France, blending humor with deep introspection about self-care and personal fulfillment. Rachel’s unique perspective as a former TV news reporter and podcast host enhances her storytelling, making her a relatable and inspiring guest.

Self-Care Practices

Rachel begins by discussing her current self-care routines, emphasizing simplicity and intentionality. She states, “I have started doing, without fail, 15 minutes of stretching every day” ([12:38]). This daily stretch routine not only addresses her physical needs but also serves as a mental reset amidst her bustling life in Manhattan. Additionally, Rachel shares her approach to alcohol consumption: “I try to be more intentional with alcohol consumption... because I feel it so much the next day” ([13:56]). By starting with club soda and limiting her intake, she prioritizes her sleep quality—a critical aspect of her self-care regimen.

Experiences with Aging and Society

A significant portion of the discussion centers on Rachel’s reflections on aging. She challenges conventional narratives, asserting that “aging feels like an exercise in power” ([35:05]). Rachel contends that societal expectations often diminish women’s self-worth based on external factors like physical appearance or marital status. She poignantly remarks, “We do not understand how to talk about women's lives outside of two sort of very specific choices” ([33:33]). This insight underscores the cultural pressures women face to conform to traditional life milestones, such as marriage and motherhood, and the importance of redefining success on individual terms.

Dating in France vs. New York

Rachel contrasts her dating experiences in France with those in New York, highlighting cultural differences in attitudes toward relationships and sexuality. She observes, “There's not shame attached to sex, which I think is what happens in the States” ([25:58]). In Paris, Rachel found a more relaxed and enjoyment-focused approach to dating, where men prioritize mutual pleasure without the underlying anger or societal pressures often experienced in the U.S. She shares a memorable interaction: “When I say, ‘I’m mostly here to enjoy myself,’ men respond by wanting to help me enjoy myself, which felt empowering” ([27:34]).

Connection Between Food and Sensuality

One of the most vivid discussions revolves around the interplay between food and sensuality in Rachel’s memoir. Doree reads an evocative passage where Rachel describes indulging in French cuisine with sensual pleasure: “I buy salted butter from the Marche Bastille and make my eggs in it... followed by Lind le Praline fruity chocolate on top” ([51:10]). Rachel explains that this connection was a form of reclaiming her body and senses after a period of prolonged isolation during the COVID-19 pandemic. “I was so alone during lockdown... it was a physical sense of just, ‘I’m all parts of it’” ([47:22]). This relationship with food became a meditative and joyous act, symbolizing her newfound freedom and self-acceptance.

Reflections on Media Adaptation Challenges

Rachel also touches on the difficulties of adapting her books into television shows. She expresses frustration with producers who struggled to envision a narrative arc without traditional resolutions like marriage or parenthood. “They're unable to conceive of a world where the story is how to live outside of an established narrative” ([31:37]). This challenge highlights the broader issue of limited storytelling frameworks for women’s experiences, particularly those that defy conventional expectations.

Personal Insights and Conclusions

Throughout the conversation, Rachel emphasizes the importance of self-compassion and challenging societal norms. She advises listeners to question “who benefits from [feeling bad about themselves]” ([35:05]) and to recognize that much of the pressure women face is perpetuated by capitalist structures designed to make them feel inadequate. Rachel’s transformative summer in Paris serves as a testament to the power of embracing one’s desires and redefining personal success. She concludes with a powerful reminder: “Don’t feel bad about yourself for things like enjoying butter or chocolate. It's all about reclaiming joy and self-love” ([37:36]).

Conclusion

Episode 309 of Forever35 offers a thoughtful exploration of self-care, aging, and personal liberation through the lens of Rachel Goodwin’s experiences and writings. Her candid discussions encourage listeners to redefine their own narratives, prioritize their well-being, and embrace the fullness of their lives beyond societal expectations. With Rachel’s blend of humor and wisdom, this episode serves as both an inspiration and a guide for anyone seeking to enjoy themselves authentically and wholeheartedly.

Notable Quotes

• “I have started doing, without fail, 15 minutes of stretching every day.” — Rachel Goodwin ([12:38])

• “Aging feels like an exercise in power.” — Rachel Goodwin ([35:05])

• “There's not shame attached to sex, which I think is what happens in the States.” — Rachel Goodwin ([25:58])

• “Don’t feel bad about yourself for things like enjoying butter or chocolate. It's all about reclaiming joy and self-love.” — Rachel Goodwin ([37:36])

---

Connect with Rachel Goodwin

• Website: glennismcnicoll.com
• Newsletter: Good Decisions
• Podcast: Wilder

Follow Forever35

• Website: forever35podcast.com
• Email: forever35podcastmail.com

Upcoming Episodes

Stay tuned for more insightful conversations and special guests on Forever35 as Doree and Elise continue to navigate the journey of self-care, aging, and personal growth with humor and authenticity.

Transcript

[Glynis McNicoll]

They say opposites attract. That's why the Sleep number smart bed is the best bed for couples. You can each choose what's right for you whenever you like. You like a bed that feels firm but they want soft. Sleep number does that. You want to sleep cooler while they like to feel warm. Sleep number does that too. Why choose a sleep number smart bed so you can choose your ideal comfort on either side. And now it's the lowest price of the season on the top selling i8 smart bed your best savings plus special financing limited time shop a sleep number store near you. See store or sleepnumber.com for details. Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era or yoga era, dive into peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kids game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with peloton. Find your push. Find your power peloton visit 1peloton.com.

[Dory Shafrir]

Hey, I'm Dorie.

[Elise Hu]

I'm Elise and we are still on holiday break. We hope you are having a safe.

[Dory Shafrir]

And happy holiday and we know there's a lot of urine reviews coming at us this time of year, but we are not going to do a full wrap up on 2024.

[Elise Hu]

We are sparing you.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah. Instead we picked an episode from the summer that we are replaying today in case you missed it and it is with author Glynis McNicoll. So please enjoy the episode and we hope you are enjoying the holiday season. Hello and welcome to Forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Dory Shafriar.

[Elise Hu]

And I'm Elise Hu and we are two friends who like to talk a lot about serums who like to talk a lot.

[Dory Shafrir]

Period.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Period.

[Elise Hu]

I know, I kind of paused there.

[Dory Shafrir]

You did.

[Elise Hu]

Because we do talk a lot.

[Dory Shafrir]

I think it was an apt pause. Elise, I wanted to tell you about a nice thing that a friend of mine said which is about the podcast. Which is that how you talked about going to see bad comics starting out to support them.

[Elise Hu]

Yes.

[Dory Shafrir]

And also that's my self care this year. Yeah. To give out of town friends an interesting time and she said that felt forever 35. Very forever 35 to me. It's like a kind productive thing to do for others but also an interesting slash fresh activity.

[Elise Hu]

Hmm. Well thanks. It's really fun I keep doing it.

[Dory Shafrir]

I want to go with you sometime. Do you have any desire to do stand up?

[Elise Hu]

No. I remember Kate asking me this when we did our pass off episode.

[Dory Shafrir]

Oh, yes, yes.

[Elise Hu]

I think you have a tight five.

[Dory Shafrir]

Oh, that's right. I forgot about that.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Don't.

[Elise Hu]

You don't.

[Dory Shafrir]

Okay. I mean, look, that's fair.

[Elise Hu]

I mean, I. I am actually quite shy about being in front of live audiences. I'm not shy about speaking into a microphone alone.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Elise Hu]

Or speaking to a camera for a live shot. As a TV news reporter, the idea that it goes out to a lot of people didn't seem to really cross my mind when I was doing it. And so I just felt like I was standing out by a murder scene at 11 for the eyewitness News, just speaking to the photographer and the camera. But I remember there was one time I was in Singapore covering the Kim Jong Un, Donald Trump summit of 2018. I was going on Anderson Cooper's show, and we were in a commercial break, and it's like a long commercial break. Four and four and a half minutes.

[Dory Shafrir]

Oh, that is long.

[Elise Hu]

Before we came back. And I was seated next to Anderson, and I remember the producer saying something like, he's not very chatty. He's not a chatty guy. Like, don't chat him up. But I can't really help it. Like, if you're just standing right there or you're sitting there three inches away from someone, what are you gonna do?

[Dory Shafrir]

Wait, are you just awkward into space? Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

For four and a half minutes?

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah. That's a long time.

[Elise Hu]

So I think I mentioned to him, I was like, I heard that you don't really like chatting. And he said, I'm really shy. He's like, I'm, like, painfully shy, and I feel awkward a lot of the time. And I totally got it. And I. I mentioned to him that Terry Gross of Fresh Air, she doesn't like to do interviews in the same studio as her guests. She only likes to hear them. And so there are some famous interviews of hers where, like, Bill O'Reilly, I think, just got up and walked away. But she didn't really know until after the fact because she couldn't see them. And she did this. And it was for the same reason, just that she kind of feels awkward in person or shy. Just like, shy, really. Probably not awkward. And so there's a lot of broadcasters who are like this.

[Dory Shafrir]

I mean, I relate to that. Like, I also feel like it's easier because you feel like you have a structure when you're doing an interview or even just like, right now, we're just chatting. Like, we don't have. This was not planned or scripted, but there's a format to it.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

You know, and that feels safer to me than just a conversation. Like, I remember. And I've. I've talked about this on the. On the podcast before, about how, like, I feel like, especially post Covid parties that are like, just go to talk to people parties. I'm like, we all had to re.

[Elise Hu]

Acclimate.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yes. Especially if it's like, not if it's like a. Like a casual friend, like a casual acquaintance. I'm always like, ooh, I don't, like. I don't know. I don't know if I can do that. I was invited to a book party the other night, and I was gonna go, and then I, like.

[Elise Hu]

Had you flaked?

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah, I flaked. I had, like, social anxiety because, like, I wasn't. I'm not close with the people whose book party. It was, like, it was very nice that they invited me, but I was like, I'm gonna go alone and have awkward conversations. And I really. I really, like, talked myself out of it. It was interesting. Like, now that I'm thinking about it, I'm like, oh, that was interesting.

[Elise Hu]

Next time you have an invite like this, and it's sort of in the middle of town, just remember your friend Elise is always down to do things at the last minute.

[Dory Shafrir]

I should have just texted you.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, I'm like, I'm the friend where people are like, hey, so and so dropped out of this thing that's in two and a half hours. Can you come? And I'm like, yeah, sure. Are you?

[Dory Shafrir]

So that actually raises a question for me, which is, are your kids old enough to be left alone?

[Elise Hu]

Mm, my oldest is, and so she can watch the younger kids.

[Dory Shafrir]

Oh, what a dream.

[Elise Hu]

And on weeknights, I have help. I have a nanny who works five hours during those crucial hours of dinner, bath, bedtime, routine, getting ready for school the next day. So she works from four to nine. And so that window is nice.

[Dory Shafrir]

This party started at 6. I should have. I should have. I should have texted you.

[Elise Hu]

Oh, yeah, that's when I go to random cocktail parties and don't know how to get out of conversations.

[Dory Shafrir]

Okay, cool. Well, next time. Next time I'll ask you. Before we get to our wonderful guest for today, I just wanted to let everyone know about a special guest that we have coming up in a couple of weeks. Yes. Named Rachel Goodwin, who is a celebrity makeup artist. You may know her as being Emma Stone's go to makeup artist. She broke into Hollywood by working alongside photographer David lachapelle. Why am I telling you this? Because Rachel is going to be answering your questions about makeup. Celebrity makeup. What when should you wear certain makeup, how should you do makeup, what makeup she like? Like anything makeup related.

[Elise Hu]

And skin care. She does a lot of skin care too. She gets tons of skincare products to test out. She's been doing this for years.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah, services hacks anything. We want your questions so you can leave those for us by voicemail at 781-591-0390. You can text them to us at the same number, 781-591-0390. You can email them forever35podcastmail.com and we'll be taking questions for the next week or so, so send those questions in, please. And also a reminder that on our website forever35podcast.com we links to everything we mentioned on the show. We have our [e-mail] Forever35. If you're a Patreon subscriber, you heard our episode recently with our favorite books, pop culture recs of the moment, which is very fun to do. We'll be doing those monthly. There's also there's tons of bonus content right now on the Patreon.

[Elise Hu]

So our morning and evening routine PDF is there.

[Glynis McNicoll]

Yes.

[Elise Hu]

If you're curious about our morning and evening routines.

[Dory Shafrir]

And our newsletter is @forever35podcast.com newsletter and now I want to introduce Glynis McNichol, who is the author of the memoir no one tells you this and the new book I'm mostly here to enjoy myself. And she also created and hosted the podcast Wilder. And she lives in New York City and her new book is about when she left New York for Paris in the spring of 2021. And it's just a funny, insightful, sexy account of her time in France. And we got to ask her so many, so many great things. So here's Glynis. Glynis, it is so delightful to get to talk to you again on Forever 35. Welcome back to the show.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Thank you guys for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

[Dory Shafrir]

You know, you just reminded us about how your first book came out six, six years ago, which is when we first talked to you. And wow.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

A, wow.

[Elise Hu]

B, it's been a minute.

[Dory Shafrir]

Oh, it's been a minute. But see, like it doesn't feel like it was that long Ago. So, like, yikes.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yeah. What is six years?

[Dory Shafrir]

What is six years?

[Rachel Goodwin]

It feels a really long time ago. On the other hand, I'm like, I can't believe it was six years. And then you think, I don't know, Covid was such a wrench into everything that, like, a week ago now feels like a long time ago, and 10 years feels like a blink. Maybe this is just aging. I think it's hard at this point for me to separate. Is this the normal experience of aging? Is it Covid? Is it social media that flattens all experiences? So you're constantly being like, I feel like my. My algorithm on Instagram was, like, showing me all those. These photos of like, 90s people, like Leonardo DiCaprio and Kate Moss. And when I saw them in like a present day photo, I thought, my God, what happened to them? And I'm like, no, they're the same age as you as what happened to them. You also don't look like 1996. It's like such a weird perversion of our time.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, it's strange because I often still feel like I have so much growing up to do, and yet people look to us as if we're supposed to be the grownups now.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Oh, I know.

[Dory Shafrir]

What.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yeah, that too. Where I'm like, is it. Did my parents feel this young at. Because I turned 50 at the end of the summer, and I'm like, did my parents also feel incredibly young at 49? And then I look at photos of them when they were 49 and I think, nope, they did not. There's no way that they were like, they had a different sense of time and responsibility or. Or any. Everything, I guess. I don't know.

[Dory Shafrir]

Well, this is all great intro fodder for discussing your lovely, delightful, engrossing new book. How many more adjectives can I use?

[Rachel Goodwin]

I'll take it. I'll tell you.

[Dory Shafrir]

But as you know, we do like to start off by asking our guests about a self care practice that they have. I mean, I guess you could argue that you basically wrote a book about a self care practice.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

But I would love to hear if there's something that you're doing at this particular moment in time that you would consider self care.

[Rachel Goodwin]

So two things which are probably going to sound extremely basic, but I have started doing, without fail, 15 minutes of stretching every day. And part of that is because when I get out of bed, I notice I need it more. But part of it is I live on the Upper west side of Manhattan, and so every time I walk Into Zabar's or Citarella or Fairway and it's an older sort of neighborhood. I'm like keep stretching because you. It's like the distance between you and the cane or the walker or the bent over back is sor than you think. So literally now every morning I just do it and if I traveling I notice the difference. The last two weeks I've been booked. Tour is not the best example. But I have tried to, to really not casually have alcohol. I haven't stopped drinking by any metric. But I think that I really. Instead of just casually having a glass of wine or two with dinner when I'm out, I really am like start with a club soda and just see if you're fine with that for the rest of the night. Like I sort of try. Oh, intentional sounds like an Instagram therapy word. But I try to be more intentional with alcohol consumption. Like because it, because I feel it so much the next day. And sleep.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah.

[Rachel Goodwin]

I don't know if you guys are experiencing that. Sleep is such sleep. Yeah. And I have to say the first sign that I'm in perimenopause is my sleep is off. Like so erratic and not reliable that I really am sensitive to. I start becoming a little bit more like, like neurotic about anything that might impact sleep. Like no coffee after 9am, no sugar after 2. Like that.

[Dory Shafrir]

9Am Wait, hold on. 9am I have like five cups of.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Coffee before 9am and then.

[Dory Shafrir]

Oh, okay.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yeah, that's it for the rest of the day.

[Dory Shafrir]

I'm sipping on my, my late morning, early afternoon iced coffee. My cutoff is more like 2. It used to be 3, 3:30. And then that was just like, oh, this is not working for me. But maybe I need to go earlier. This is interesting.

[Rachel Goodwin]

I actually feel it. It's almost like I've trained my body. Like if I every once in a while I'll think, oh, I'm outside, it's hot. I'll just get an iced coffee and I'll take two sips. And if it's like around 11 or noon, it's just, it's almost like having alcohol too early. It's just if I just don't want it anymore.

[Elise Hu]

I like how these self care practices cost nothing or cost less money.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

So that's always excellent.

[Rachel Goodwin]

I will say. Cause I just read. I don't know who wrote it, but that piece about sunblock skeptics.

[Elise Hu]

Yes.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Like that maybe within the time some sunscreen skeptics and I. Yeah, like the Internet is not doing most people any favors. But I have been Sunblock has been like self care for me since I was 10. So like that's not nothing new. But I continue to be just to reinforce people who might be on the fence. Self sunblock devoted. That's more expensive than my I stretch to the daily every morning while I listen to the bad news of the world.

[Elise Hu]

Maybe I'll start foam rolling to the daily every morning and see how that goes. For me, the daily is a great.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Time period to do it with because you're just like, you know, unit of.

[Elise Hu]

Time, it's gonna run.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yeah. And sometimes you need to do something self carry while you're listening to that news. You're like, oh God. Oof. Yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

So we're just gonna take a short break and we will be right back.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Foreign.

[Elise Hu]

This episode is brought to you by Better Help.

[Unknown]

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[Elise Hu]

Just fill out a brief questionnaire to.

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[Dory Shafrir]

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[Glynis McNicoll]

They say opposites attract. That's why the Sleep Number Smart Bed is the best bed for couples. You can each choose what's right for you whenever you like. You like a bed that feels firm, but they want soft. Sleep Number does that. You want to sleep cooler while they like to feel warm. Sleep Number does that too. Why choose a Sleep Number Smart bed so you can choose your ideal comfort on either side. And now it's the lowest price of the season on the top selling i8 smart bed your best savings plus special financing limited time shop a sleep Number store near you. See store or sleep number.com for details. Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era or yoga era, dive into peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kids game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not, just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your power peloton visit1peloton.com.

[Elise Hu]

All right, well, let's talk about something far more exuberant, which is your time in France. Your book, which is called I am Mostly Here to Enjoy Myself is also the line you used on a dating app. The dating app of the moment there during 2021 when you were in France called Fruits Fruits with a Z. I love this so much. Please dish about fruits and how you sort yourself on that app by various fruits and whether these fruits actually correspond to anything meaningful.

[Rachel Goodwin]

So it's funny because I Fruits has now suddenly made a reappearance in Paris. People have been I don't know if it's Olympic related, but I hadn't seen it since 2021 and I don't know what it has to do with it. People keep sending me posters of their advertising in the subway. So there's always a different. It feels like. And maybe it's the same here. There's always sort of like a different dating app that's in vogue. And one year, I mean, one year was hinge and one year more people were on Bumble. Then one year it was happen with like H, A P, P, N, where you just connect with people who. Or geographically close to you, which I always thought was questionable. So when I landed in Paris In August of 2021, after more than a year of being extremely by myself in my very small studio apartment on the Upper west side, Friends, I said, I asked friends. I'm like, oh, so you know, what's. What's the. What is everyone using now? Like, what's on the COVID app? And they said, fruits. And I said, is that a real thing? And they said, yes. So I downloaded it. And you're supposed to. The premise of the app is you categorize yourself based on one of four fruits. Peach, cherry, watermelon, and grape. And each is supposed to be. I might get them wrong, but peach was like, watermelon was no seeds attached. So you just, like, you were into, like, you wanted to hook up, but you weren't necessarily looking for a long term relationship.

[Elise Hu]

Oh, okay, okay.

[Dory Shafrir]

And that's what you. That's what you decided. You were right. You were a watermelon.

[Rachel Goodwin]

I decided I was a watermelon. Grapes was supposed to be. I mean, I was a watermelon is really how a mature person starts off there. I could not. I could not have created a better storytelling device. But like, grapes was like, you just want a glass of wine. One of them was you were only there for conversation. And one of them was you were only there to have sex, essentially. But to be clear, no matter what you picked on that app, everybody was just there to have sex. And it was just like, there was no. There was no pretense. There was no, like, oh, I just want to get to know you and how are you? It was literally, they were as. They had had a very strict lockdown in Paris also. And I think that summer everyone was in a frenzy. It was just like, everybody was, you know, could not get out of their clothes quickly enough, including me. But. So everybody on the app was. There was no sort of like, formality to it. And it quickly became apparent that you might have chosen the fruit that you wanted to eat. Like, it was just. It was sort of.

[Elise Hu]

That's what I didn't understand at all. It was like, how do these fru really correspond to the idea or the classical piece?

[Rachel Goodwin]

There was a whole different series of them.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, okay.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Oh, yeah. There was no thinking happening. At least there was very little thinking happening.

[Elise Hu]

Just be horny. Choose a fruit.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yeah, okay.

[Dory Shafrir]

Glynis, one thing that I loved. There are so many things I loved about your book, but one of the things that was so interesting to me, as someone who has done her fair share of online dating, was the differences you noted in how French men kind of approached this whole situation versus your experiences with American and specifically New York men. And I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about that. Like, what was refreshing about that? What was maybe, I don't want to say scary, but, like, felt overwhelming or how did that feel to you in the moment and how do you think about it now?

[Rachel Goodwin]

I would say nothing was scary to me that summer. And I actually added a few details to one revision because some friends in New York had read it, and certain things, they were like, but what did you do? And I thought, oh, I need to put this in there. Or people, like. Because that's how people's brains work. Whereas that summer, I was very. Nothing felt scary. And I think that was partly the mindset of that summer after everyone having been so alone. I think not just Frenchmen, because Paris, you know, is an international city, and I would say has become increasingly international. Like, having spent so much time there over the years, it's become a much more. It's not as French as it used to be, if that makes sense. There's a lot more diversity there. So some of the men I was interacting with were European and not just Parisian or not just French. But I will say there's much more comfort with sex in Europe, just in general. And the French have, like. There's not shame attached to sex, which I think is what happens in the States. There's. There's much more. I think they prioritize enjoyment. Much more so. And they. I think. I mean, it's a bit of a cliche, but it proves out sometimes where there's this sort of. To be a good lover is considered, like, part of manliness. You know, like, there's this, I want to prove your enjoyment proves my manliness, as opposed to, you know, like, sort of that you're an accessory, which I find is the. I mean, it's hard to tell. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it's like, there's a lot less anger there. That's what I found, actually. What I find is the major difference. And I think this speaks. Speaks to the not moment because it's been longer than a moment. But the. The sort of mentality of America right now, particularly directed to women, is there's so much anger when I get on apps here. And even if it's the anger of being like, I'm not like, this person, like, it's political, it's charged.

[Dory Shafrir]

Except that one guy.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Oh, the one. But that was a kink. It was so interesting. Here it feels like people are just angry, and there it feels like he wasn't. Is. When I met him in person, I was like, oh, you're very into spanking. And, like, that is not unusual. The amount of men there who are like, I'd like to thank you. Like, oh, this feels very French. But, like, he was just. I realized that he had, like, that was sort of. But he was a different kind of anger. Like, it wasn't like, I'm angry at the world with him. It was an entire way of being in the world. So it's just two different things.

[Elise Hu]

Okay.

[Rachel Goodwin]

I mean, it was fun. I didn't actually feel nervous with him either. I did not. Nothing made me feel scared. The fact this. All that. This is, like, signaled scary to some people here, never. There is a reflection of sort of. I think it's an indictment of the manner in which we still narratively talk about women alone, as opposed to the reality that most women. How most women are experiencing life, because that just seems like a normal thing that most women I know do. Men there, which literally never happens in New York, would say. They say, what are you looking for here, Glynis? And I'd say, I sort of thought about it. I'm like, I'm mostly here to enjoy myself. And then they would go, well, I would like to help you enjoy yourself. And I'd say, hey, okay, explain to me how exactly? Because pretty quickly, I was so overwhelmed with responses. I was like, completely. Immediately. And then I could tell. I was like, oh, you put some thought into this. Okay, well, this sounds. It was like I was taking applications. And that in itself makes you feel very powerful.

[Elise Hu]

Let's build on this, because you have been on forever 35 before to talk about how you have veered off the conventional route of quote, unquote, success laid out for women. And you've been doing just great. And in your book. In this one, you write that it of course, irks men, but it also somehow irks a certain type of white woman. And so I'd love for you to talk A little bit about what you think is so irksome or scary for people about women who are free and are enjoying their lives and not following the whole find romance, get married, have kids narrative.

[Rachel Goodwin]

So I think it's interesting because with men, I think men have an issue with the idea of women sort of doing what they want outside of centralizing men in the narrative. But I rarely encounter men. I mean, this has shifted a little since the book, but I rarely encounter men who have an issue with me personally. I think men on a. Whereas women might have. Like, the idea of you is fine, but it's on the face to face where suddenly their backs get up. When I start talking about myself, I have, like, extraordinary empathy because I think it's very difficult to exist in a world where there are rituals around certain life decisions. Like we. The rituals we have for women are weddings and baby showers, essentially. Right. Like, it's. And those are huge, universal ones. And when you don't participate in either, you sort of fall off the cultural map, which is what lot of the last book was about. And I think when you call into question when you say, oh, I don't need these rituals, or I'm actually happy without this, then you're saying to someone who's. Who's measured some part of their success in life by external factors that may not be making them happy, but you can sort of lean on the fact that you're following the scripts that women have been rewarded for. And it sort of says, oh, well, maybe you could have made different choices and didn't. And I think that's hard. And also that happens to me in different scenarios. Right? Like, I've had younger people have different ideas of ambition than I do. And it's like when you're so proud of yourself for accomplishing something, and they're like, I don't really see the value in that. You're like, so it's just always telling to me that older women who are 65 and on are very celebratory, but there's this sort of strata of women who had more access to more choices and sort of stuck to a conventional narrative that maybe did not satisfy them, but they could at least hold on to the rewards of that narrative. I think it gets their back up a little bit. There's so many other ways to live. But are we. Is there, like a cultural narrative? And the truth is, right now, I think what's happening is all those diverse ways to live are making their way into the cultural narrative. And this violent pushback we're living through right now is the response to that. Right. That you are questioning those power structures in ways that feel threatening. And, you know, a lot of what's fueling where we may or may not be headed in the next few months comes from that. Like, oh, I can be happy as a different. In a different way.

[Dory Shafrir]

You write in this book about how you had a lot of interest in your first book. No one tells you this in turning it into a TV show. And those conversations kind of ultimately went nowhere. And that's something that it seemed like a lot of the producers and maybe executives who you met with had sort of had trouble with was this idea of, like, well, what's the narrative arc? What does the protagonist want? And it seemed like they were unable to conceive of a world where, like, what you wrote kind of was the story and that there wasn't this, like. Like that there wasn't this satisfying, quote, unquote, third act where, oh, she gets married or like, she has a baby on her own and, like, that's the conclusion. So I was hoping you could talk.

[Rachel Goodwin]

A little bit, which is hard to think of. Like. Yeah, and I think that's still true. I've encountered some very well meaning people just in the last 10 days that the book has come out. And they're like, I really love this. I mean, are you sure that you didn't have, like, an emotional connection with some of these men? Like, like, it would make me feel better if knew that you were still in touch or you had a relationship with some of them. And I'm like, not the point and. But like, it makes us feel. It makes people feel uncomfortable, this idea, because I think we are. So. We do not understand success. And I'm not just talking about financial or career success, but we don't understand a resolution around a woman's story if it's not like, oh, she's looking to be made whole and like, we can have some, you know, assurance. Yes. I'm like, I'm 50. Like, this is not. And I think again, sort of to that point, part of what's making some people uneasy about this is we don't know how to talk about sexually viable women in midlife. Right. We sort of tend to skip that over. We sort of go from up until 40, sort of sex in the City. We have Samantha, who was always a bit of, I love Samantha, but she always. There was something like they relied on her for comedy in a way, in a sort of strange way. And then we sort of skip ahead to Golden Girls where you've got Blanche, but these middle years where you're so attractive still and so sexually powerful. I don't know that we're quite. We have a little unease around them in America. And so with. No one tells you this. There were so many people that were like, oh, this story resonated so much with me. Or I love it. And then when it came to pitch the series, it was like, what is she looking for if she's not looking for a spouse? Or what is she looking for if she's not looking to be a parent? And like, how do we know that she's successful if she doesn't acquire one or both of these things?

[Elise Hu]

Wow.

[Rachel Goodwin]

And yeah, and you're just. I'm like, the story.

[Elise Hu]

You're like, this is undermining the entire point.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Exactly. It's like the story is how to live outside of an established narrative. And the fact that you like that is the challenge. And it was so interesting. We really struggle. We really just don't know how to talk about women's lives outside of two sort of very specific choices, which are amazing choices, but it's like they're not the only choices.

[Elise Hu]

Right, Right. I would love to talk a little bit more about fruits. Just kidding.

[Dory Shafrir]

No, Elise is getting on fruits.

[Rachel Goodwin]

If it's still there in September when I'm kidding.

[Elise Hu]

Really?

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yeah. I mean, I feel like if they have an influx of users this fall, I should get a cut of that. But I'm curious when I go back in September, because I don't think it exists in the States. Like, I think you could probably open it, but I don't actually think there's any users on it here, which is quite amusing, actually.

[Elise Hu]

It's a shame. It's a shame is what it is.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Maybe it'll find its way over here.

[Elise Hu]

No, but what I wanted to ask you about was just really being in your body because you were 46 at the time. You got to fuck around France and eat all the cheese and take all the lovers and just be in your body. And you emerge from this experience observing that everything that we are told about aging is a lie. Say more.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Aging feels to me like an exercise in power. And I'm not using men as a metric for, like, being attractive to men is not certainly like the end all to be all. But I do think to suddenly realize that, oh, if I want to go and have a 27 year old come over to my apartment, who's gor. Like that is available to me as much as the 47 year old is available to me. And also I. My brain works better. And also my comfort with my own body is so appealing in the world and that I feel in my body. And this, this idea of, I think for me anyway, and this is probably a result of the election in 2016 to some degree, this sense of, why am I restricting myself? For who? For the people running this. Like, for the people running this country. Like, it seems once you start questioning all of it, I think it starts to become like, why do I feel bad about these photos of myself where I thought I looked so ugly? Like, why? Who benefits from me feeling bad? I'm like, why would it? Because especially being so alone during lockdown. And I would look at photos of me at parties and think, I was horrified at this photo at the time. I'm like, why? You're just so, like, alive and with people and happy. And I think once that questioning starts happening and so many of the things you've been warned against prove untrue, it's now shifted into, I assume it's all a lie until proven otherwise. Like, I've just switched. Instead of assuming that all of this is going to happen, I flipped it. And I'm like, I'm sure there'll be not great things about aging. Like, there are not great things about being in perimenopause. But when people talk about perimenopause or menopause is like this great change. And I'm like, wasn't that like puberty? And like, wasn't that like, my body has always been unruly to some degree and this is just a new state of unruliness that is not particularly enjoyable. But neither were the cramps I had every month from the age of 14. Like, it just, it's sort of. Of feels like the problem is not that my body is less unruly, it's that we have less information about its unruly than I did when I was 14. But I just feel like so much of these narratives, my first question is, you're feeling bad about your life or yourself? Like, ask yourself, who benefits from that feeling? Because it's rarely you. And then you look around, you're like, most of capitalism runs on making women feel terrible. Like, they need to buy something to feel better. And I'm a little bit like, just to be clear, there's at least seven products on my face right now. Like, I have. Not anemic. I have.

[Elise Hu]

You're preaching to the choir. I wrote a whole book about this.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yes, exactly. I'm like, I've got. I'm. I'm not suggesting, like, we all, like, go live in the woods, but I just feel a little bit like I just. I'm not gonna. I'm gonna not feel bad until I'm really given a reason not to feel bad. There's so much to not feel good about right now. Mostly having to do with elected officials and the environment. Like, I'm not feeling bad about myself because one part of my body points in one direction and one part of my body points in the other direction. I mean, I say that. And then I saw a photo of myself at a book event the other night taken from, like, like, a bad angle at the back. Like, I was like, oh, you no longer have a jawline, and you look like the hunchback of Notre Dame.

[Elise Hu]

Don't go there. Don't go there.

[Rachel Goodwin]

And then I was like, that's Kendall's 90. Exactly. And I was like, just know when you're 90, you're gonna love this photo.

[Dory Shafrir]

I. That was so funny you brought that up because that was something I was gonna mention, slash, ask you about, because I. So related to your calculation about the five year gap. Because I feel like historically, for me, it's been like a ten year gap. And, like, it's just. It's just not like a healthy way to live. And I. You know, I. I feel like over the last few years, I've been sort of, like, working through this, but it. It's like a very debilitating way to feel. So I. I was. I really appreciated you kind of, like, articulating this.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Oh, I. Thank you. And also, it's not like I don't do it. It's not like I don't see photos that I'm not like, oh, God, this is horrible.

[Dory Shafrir]

Sure.

[Rachel Goodwin]

I just really consciously say to myself, like, you're gonna love this photo at some point. My whole goal is to, like, diminish the space of time from seeing a photo of myself and enjoying it. From, like, that's the thing. Five years to six months. Right. Like, I'm just trying to shorten it.

[Dory Shafrir]

It is that whole thing of, like, oh, like, why was I so hard on myself then? And then having that same empathy for yourself now, you know, that's the challenge that I'm still kind of working on. Yeah, exactly.

[Elise Hu]

Okay, let's take a break, and we.

[Unknown]

Will be right back.

[Glynis McNicoll]

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[Dory Shafrir]

The other thing that I just wanted to ask talk to you about is something that Elise alluded to in her question, which was about eating all the cheese because there's so much like evocative food writing in your book that I just really enjoyed and like made me so hungry. And you know, I think it also seemed to like run counter to the ways in which 46 year old women are like supposed to think about food. And I really appreciated that. So I just want to like read one of the passages that I was highlighting. I read this on Kindle and I like highlighted so many passages. So I'm just going to read this because I was like oh yes, you wrote I buy salted butter from the Marche Bastille and make my eggs in it with eggs with it in the morning, dropping huge squares into the frying pan so that the eggs turn crisp and brown on the outside, almost as if I'm deep frying them. I slather it on my daily baguette in thick squares and then add equally thick squares of Lind le Praline fruity chocolate on top. I start to gauge the schedule of the boulangerie and make a point to stop by 1500 hours in of increasing my chances of getting a warm pan au chocolate. When I do, the pastry is still gooey with butter, soft and melting instead of crisp and flaky, and the bars of chocolate baked inside ooze out across my fingers, sometimes leaving streaks of chocolate around my Mouth. And then you go right into. You say, every morning I take a shower, pruning myself the way I imagine gardeners attend to their gardens, and then slather cream over every inch of my body, followed by oils and then more oils. My body feels like a velvet glove. And you talk about enjoying your body anew, and I just was like, oh, this connection between food and the body and pleasure, enjoyment. I mean, this is everything. So good.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Oh, thank you.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah. So I was hoping you could just talk a little bit more about this connection between food and sensuality and how it kind of felt for you and what you were kind of thinking in the moment about these connections.

[Rachel Goodwin]

I think. Thank you. That actually made me hungry.

[Elise Hu]

Me, too.

[Rachel Goodwin]

I can barely cook. I think part of what that summer was, was like, what I hope, anyway, because you don't know what would have happened if there wasn't Covid. But, like, an accelerated version of realizations I would have come to anyway, even if it might have taken longer. Which is. Is the sense of, why am I restricting myself? Why am I not enjoying what's available to me? But in that summer, because, excuse me. I had been so deprived of, like, literal touch for a year and a half that I sort of boomeranged into it out of. I mean, I joke that when I think of that summer, I think of, like, the videos that you see of animals in captivity who've been allowed back into their natural environment. Like, I literally. I don't know how much thinking was happening. I just. I like. It's like, I got a little taste. And I was like, oh, that's not enough. I want all of it. Like, I had a makeout session and I was like, how quickly can I take off my clothes? I had, like, a little bit of butter, and I was like, I want seven types of butter. And it just. I think in that moment, after having so much deprivation, it was this, like, oh, I just. I can't. The rationale for not enjoying this feels so flimsy after having so much restriction enforced on us for such a long period of time. And I do think, like, I was very alone. I think we all got the most extreme version of our life choices during lockdown, which is. I got the most extreme solitary. But I. Many friends, I would say, were, like, happily married, but they were not. Like, I don't want to be this married to this person. Or, like, I, like, love my children, but I don't love them 24 hours a day, seven days a week, forever. Like, it was so, so extreme. But for Me, it was just like, how could I not avail myself of this when it was available? Because for so long it had not been available. And then secondary to that is so much of the food in the book is connected to community that I had reconnected with a group of friends that I had there. And it was the sense of sitting around a table together and being able to enjoy all of this together and the conversation and the camaraderie that all comes with it. It was so tied together. But there was this physical sen. Sense of just like, I'm, like, stroking my own shoulders right now. There was, like, this physical sense of touch where I was like, oh, my. Like, my whole body feels very alive and like. Like I'm all parts of it. And, like, how can I, like, butter myself up literally internally and externally as much as possible? And it didn't seem like a challenge. It didn't seem like I had to talk myself out of it. It was sort of the reverse. That sense of, like. Like, oh, I can't believe that I ever thought this was a problem. Like, I can't believe that this ever was a consideration for me. And, like, since then, I have dialed it. I do not look like this all the time, but I've dialed it down because that's just real life, but not that much. Like, I really do think, like, it seems absurd to me that we restrict ourselves to the degree we do for the things that we restrict ourselves from. And I often. I think I might have had this in the last book, but when my mother was dying, she lost a lot of weight from her illness. And I remember coming home and being shocked by how thin she was. And she said, isn't it wonderful how thin I am? Finally, Finally, I'm as thin as I want to be. And I thought, oh, my God, you're dying. Like, you are enjoying this. Your body wasting away because your whole life, you felt terrible about not being thin. That's. For some reason, death is like a victory for you and not in a good way. And I've never forgotten that. And I thought, I can't. I do not want, in the same way, looking at photos where I think, why didn't you enjoy yourself at that moment? I really don't want to spend any more time feeling bad about myself for things like that. Right.

[Elise Hu]

Me neither.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yeah. Like, there's things that I do or have done that I probably should feel bad about, but, like, not stuff like that that's externally placed on me where you're like, yeah, I should feel bad about having this. This. Four types of butter. Like, no. Or, like, I'm not. Or this. This chocolate. Also, food is, as everyone says, better in France, so it's easier to feel good about eating it.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, it's not a Baja Fresh Taco.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yeah, exactly. It's not like I'm going to Starbucks and getting, like, the processed thing. It's much easier to feel good about it when it literally, like, you see them pull it out of the oven and it's all made from. From. From fresh ingredients.

[Elise Hu]

God. Oh, so evocative.

[Dory Shafrir]

Well, Glynis, I feel like we could talk to you for another, like, three hours, but we will be somewhat respectful of your time. So thank you so much for coming on again. I mean, we'll see you in another six years.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Exactly. I hope we'll see each other in another six years.

[Dory Shafrir]

Exactly. Glynis, where can our listeners find you if they. If they want to, like, follow you on social media, get your books, etc.

[Rachel Goodwin]

I'm. No one tells you this on Instagram, and The website is glennismcnicoll.com and I have a newsletter called Good Decisions, because I like to make a decisions.

[Dory Shafrir]

But, guys, this was a delight.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Thank you for having me on. I feel like crack open like, a martini shaker in for a song. A drink.

[Elise Hu]

But I'm gonna write you separately to get all your Paris tips, too, because.

[Rachel Goodwin]

So many of the email that I have in the cafe. Yeah, okay.

[Dory Shafrir]

Elise, you have to tell her what you did after reading this book.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Oh, yeah.

[Elise Hu]

See, I'm a bit of a spontaneous person. The listeners know I'm an enneagram7 because our listeners are familiar with Enneagram, and it's kind of the impulsive, adventurous type. And so I was just reading your book and. And booked a trip to Paris in October.

[Dory Shafrir]

Oh.

[Rachel Goodwin]

But what I'll be. I might be there in October too, so maybe I will show you it in person.

[Elise Hu]

Oh, my gosh.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yeah. Oh, I love hearing that. That's a good month.

[Elise Hu]

What else could go right? What else could go right?

[Rachel Goodwin]

I love hearing that. Delightful and good. This summer's gonna be a nightmare there with the Olympics. So October decision. Yes. Oh, good. This is so fun. I will send it to you.

[Dory Shafrir]

Absolutely.

[Elise Hu]

So thank you for inspiring, guys.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Thank you so much.

[Dory Shafrir]

Elise. I just. I just love that Glynis's book inspired A transatlantic journey for you.

[Elise Hu]

I haven't been to France in a while. I really haven't been on a European continent since before COVID But I'm a big traveler, you know, foreign, former Foreign correspondent. And I just spent so much of my foreign correspondent years on the Asian continent.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yes.

[Elise Hu]

And so I'm really excited to go back. And. And you remember a few weeks ago, one of my intentions was to spend more one on one time with my daughters. And so it's going to be a one on one mother daughter trip.

[Dory Shafrir]

With this one of your daughters.

[Elise Hu]

Yes, with my middle daughter Isabel, who was actually wanting more one on one time.

[Dory Shafrir]

And she.

[Elise Hu]

I asked her where she wanted to go and she said she wanted to go to Paris to eat all the baguettes.

[Dory Shafrir]

Stop.

[Elise Hu]

Yes. And the crepes. And so she really just wants to go. To go eat baguettes. Oh, my God.

[Dory Shafrir]

This is like the sweetest thing I've ever heard.

[Elise Hu]

Rob was so funny because Rob was like, you know they have French bread here in California.

[Rachel Goodwin]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

But is it government regulated, Rob? Is it price controlled? No. I love.

[Elise Hu]

Thank you to Glyce. It was just a delightful conversation. I love the way her brain works and the way her life has really expanded outward.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

And into herself in boats. Right.

[Dory Shafrir]

So, Elise, last week I talked about how I was going to be kind of like, channeling a lot of my anxiety into my new tennis team.

[Elise Hu]

Tennis. Yeah. How is that?

[Dory Shafrir]

I'm going please to report that the channeling has, like, fully begun.

[Elise Hu]

Oh, great.

[Dory Shafrir]

I think I'm driving everyone crazy. I mean, but you're not dropping the.

[Elise Hu]

Ball with work either. You're all over it on the podcast too, so. Well, I don't know how you're so efficient.

[Dory Shafrir]

So one of the players who was on our team in the spring, who I. Who I like and is a good tennis player, I wanted her to be on the team in the summer. And she was like, look, like we never practiced. I was. And I was not the captain of this team that she was, like, kind of not complaining about, but just being like, this is why I don't want to rejoin. Like, we never practice. It's really hard when people just like, show up. Like, she's pretty competitive. And I was like, look, I hear you. Like, I fully agree. And I was like, I'm gonna set up practices and clinics for our team. And, you know, it'll be more of like a thing. And I think she was like, okay. But then I did, like, I surveyed people, I found out, like, when is the best time for people? And got in touch with an old coach and like, set up a clinic. And then this other coach is gonna do another clinic weekly. And so I message her.

[Elise Hu]

I was like, following up on Your intention?

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah, I was like, here are the practice times for next week. And she's like, oh, wow. Like, you really followed through. Like, thank you for following through on this. So I think I'm winning her over slowly. But also, you know, I like. I do think people. I mean, I like to have practices. I think it's helpful. Also, when you're playing doubles with someone, it's like, not fun to just, like, show up and be like, oh, nice to meet you, you, doubles partner. You know what I mean? Like, it's nice to play with them. So I've gone a little ham, as they say.

[Elise Hu]

Good. Because you're having fun with it.

[Dory Shafrir]

I am having fun with it.

[Elise Hu]

And so at the expense of anything else, either. It's not like. It certainly is spending time with your family or anything.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah, no, no, no, it's not. It's been. It's been very fun.

[Elise Hu]

What about this week?

[Dory Shafrir]

So this week, I am on a new kick. Who was. Who were we talking? Was it Shima or Casey? Someone recommended. I think it was one of our guests who recommended the Caroline Chambers newsletter.

[Elise Hu]

Oh, it was a mini app. It was a mini app about weeknight dinners. Right, Right.

[Dory Shafrir]

Oh, no, it was a listener. A listener. Recommended listener.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah, it was a listener. So she writes a newsletter called what to cook when you don't feel like cooking. I subscribe to I'm now obsessed, and I'm making one of her recipes tonight. We'll see how it goes. And my intention is to make another thing that is new to me, either from, like, I. I bring her up because I was, like, inspired by her newsletter and her recipes, but it doesn't necessarily have to be from her newsletter, but I will probably use that as a guide. So I just want to make something else new.

[Elise Hu]

I'm gonna try the butternut squash ravioli that Henry likes, because you mentioned that to me, and I'm gonna go get a bag of that and give it a try. I could do that today for lunch, even in.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah. Great. There you go. What about you, Elise?

[Elise Hu]

Well, just checking in on my last one. It was to read a lot, both fiction and nonfiction, and I have done it. I have fared much better with my reading intention than I did with my prenatal vitamins. I wasn't taking prenatal vitamins for any reason. Like, I'm not pregnant or anything. I just got them in bulk.

[Dory Shafrir]

Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

So. And, yeah, it has all the good stuff. Folic acid, et cetera. Right. So I have been reading every day. I've been intentional about getting up and spending at least 20 minutes reading before checking any of my devices, because that is also one of the summer rules at the Hum. I've made a checklist on the fridge that says, like, before you pick up a device or, like, turn on a television, have you. And one of them is, like, read quietly for 20 minutes. Played outside. So much helped your sister, and so they have to, like, do their things. We're only doing it during the summer because I think that we can actually maintain it. But it's been fun. And so it means that I also get my 20 minutes of reading, which has helped me follow through on my intention.

[Dory Shafrir]

Oh, that's so. That's so lovely. I cannot wait until my child can read.

[Unknown]

It is a superpower.

[Elise Hu]

It is a superpower.

[Dory Shafrir]

I'm just, like, counting the days. Okay, what is going on this week?

[Elise Hu]

For this week, I think I'm going to take the inspiration of Glynis and try and improve my sleep. She talks about how her sleep gets all over the place because of if she casually drinks too much. Right. And so maybe I need to cut down on casually drinking and increase my quality sleep. So that's my intention. Hold me to this. I'm gonna try. And I have a Fitbit, which I really only wear to monitor my sleep, so I'm gonna try and get my sleep scores up.

[Dory Shafrir]

Amazing. Never a bad idea to try to get better sleep, so I'm all for that. All right, well, this has been a delight. Thank you, Elise. Thank you, listeners. And just a reminder, Forever 35 is hosted and produced by me, Dory Shafrier and Elise Hu, and produced and edited by Sam Hunio. Sammy Reed is our project manager and our network partners, acast. Thanks, everyone.

[Elise Hu]

Thanks, y'all.

[Glynis McNicoll]

Bye.