Podcast
From the Horse's Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht
Hosted by Phil Fersht · EN
As technology rapidly evolves, the world has undergone a significant transformation. Society has shifted from being human-centered to a complex web of digital automation, AI, and human workers who support it. This rapid innovation outpaces regulations and threatens social mobility.
The rise of AI presents a critical challenge: how can businesses and policymakers ensure that AI enhances, rather than hinders, human creativity and innovation? Automating routine tasks could free up people for roles requiring creativity, problem-solving, and emotional intelligence, but it demands a focus on continuous learning and digital literacy.
The first season of From the Horse's Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht explores the intersection of AI, work, and society, aiming to shape the future.
26episodes
Episodes
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Phil pods with Exponential View Founder Azeem Azhar: There is no AI bubble: The enterprise velocity gap & China's efficiency moat
2d ago00:53:35Tap to summarizeIn this episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht sits down with Azeem Azhar, founder of Exponential View, Bloomberg contributor, and author of Exponential, for a candid conversation about where AI really stands inside the enterprise.Azeem explains why he believes there is no imminent AI bubble, pointing to enterprise investment, customer spending, and revenue growth as signs of sustained momentum. Together, Phil and Azeem discuss the growing AI velocity gap between individuals and enterprises, why legacy systems and leadership remain major barriers to adoption, and how AI agents, forward-deployed engineers, and organizational agility are reshaping competitive advantage.They also explore China’s AI progress, enterprise trust in AI, workforce reskilling, and why speed of execution, rather than technology alone, will define tomorrow’s market leaders.This episode is essential viewing for business leaders, technology executives, consultants, investors, and anyone looking to understand the real impact of AI on enterprise transformation and the future of work.Chapters 00:00 – Introduction 01:23 – AI in the enterprise today 04:24 – Is there really an AI bubble? 08:47 – The AI velocity gap 14:13 – Culture, talent, and AI adoption 21:21 – Building competitive advantage with AI 30:30 – Lessons from China’s AI ecosystem 37:15 – Why enterprise trust in AI matters 44:05 – The future of work and productivity 52:55 – Closing thoughtsLearn more & connect HFS Research: https://www.hfsresearch.com The podcast: https://horsesmouthpodcast.com Phil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht Azeem Azhar’s Exponential View: https://www.exponentialview.com About From the Horse’s MouthFrom the Horse’s Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht brings together founders, executives, and contrarian thinkers for unfiltered conversations on the forces reshaping business and technology. Hosted by HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst, Phil Fersht.#AI #ArtificialIntelligence #EnterpriseAI #FutureOfWork #AzeemAzhar #PhilFersht #HFSResearch
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Phil pods with Genpact CEO Balkrishan "BK" Kalra: The $18 trillion reason your AI isn't working
1w ago00:26:32Tap to summarizeIn this episode of From the Horse's Mouth, HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht sits down with Balkrishan “BK” Kalra, President and CEO of Genpact, for a candid conversation on why most enterprises are still chasing AI returns on broken foundations, and what it actually takes to unlock value at scale. BK argues there is no artificial intelligence without process intelligence. Drawing on Genpact’s roots in running mission-critical operations at GE, the birthplace of Lean and Six Sigma, he makes the case that the fundamentals have never changed: until enterprises do the foundational work in data, process, technology, and talent, the ROI on AI simply won't materialize. At the heart of the conversation is the concept of enterprise debt. Technology debt, BK says, is only the tip of the iceberg — the real drag lies in the hidden process, data, and talent debt beneath the surface. Phil and BK unpack the HFS–Genpact research showing aspirations are high while readiness is low, why only 6% of enterprises have meaningfully acted despite widespread awareness, and why the challenge now is less about awareness and more about leadership courage, ownership, and execution speed. They also dig into the staggering $18 trillion in recoverable enterprise value tied to debt remediation, and why AI transformation and enterprise debt remediation are really the same program — a holistic, CEO-level agenda rather than a CIO/CTO technology project. BK explains why the payoff is a factor change, not just incremental improvement, why the gains compound over three to six years of disciplined execution, and why active, high-frequency governance is what separates enterprises that execute from those that remain stalled. Finally, BK shares how this is reshaping Genpact itself: the “five billion dollar startup” mindset, the Yin-and-Yang leadership blend of deep-domain veterans and tech natives, and the bold workforce bet that within three to four years there will be only two kinds of people at Genpact —AI builders and AI practitioners — with nearly 10,000 builders and 20,000 practitioners already earned, with zero whitewashing allowed. Essential viewing for CEOs, CFOs, COOs, heads of supply chain, services, and outsourcing leaders, and anyone serious about turning AI ambition into measurable enterprise value.Learn More & Connect HFS Research: https://www.hfsresearch.com The podcast: https://horsesmouthpodcast.com Phil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht BK Kalra on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/balkrishan-kalraAbout From the Horse’s Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht brings together founders, executives, and contrarian thinkers for unfiltered debate on the forces reshaping business and technology. Hosted by HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht. #AI #EnterpriseAI #FutureOfWork #Genpact #AgenticAI #BKKalra #PhilFersht #HFSResearch
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Phil pods with Cognizant Co-Founder Frank D'Souza: Why AI is breaking the IT services industry
3w ago00:48:10Tap to summarizeThe man who co-founded Cognizant and scaled it from a startup to 280,000 people, $16B in revenue, and ~$40B in market cap has a blunt message for the IT services industry: the scarcity-era playbook is finished. In this episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht sits down with Frank D’Souza, Co-Founder and Managing Partner of Recognize and author of the new white paper The Great Decoupling, for a candid debate on how AI is rewriting the economics of services.They unpack “the great paradox”: code has never been more valuable, yet the cost of producing it is collapsing toward zero. Frank explains why the industry’s habit of pricing the input (billable hours, utilization, headcount) instead of the output is the real threat — and why the firms that survive will sell certainty and outcomes, not tires and spark plugs. This is a no-nonsense conversation about the AI reckoning facing IT services, consulting, and digital transformation — and a roadmap for the leaders willing to drop revenue before they grow it. Chapters 00:00 – Meet Frank D’Souza: from Cognizant to Recognize01:43 – The 3 things that built Cognizant into a $16B giant 03:27 – The innovator’s dilemma: why incumbents get disrupted 04:41 – The great paradox: code priceless AND worthless 07:45 – Selling the experience, not the inputs 09:46 – Why talent — not tech — is the real bottleneck 12:13 – The J-Curve danger: how to spot a firm on the wrong side 14:19 – Wall Street, Jevons’ paradox & people-heavy businesses 17:08 – The “first mile and last mile” services opportunity 20:15 – OpenAI & Anthropic services deals: threat or gift? 22:46 – Mass retraining, young talent & “artificial wisdom” 25:21 – From the pyramid to the diamond: the new talent geometry 30:26 – A NASSCOM-style industry-wide apprenticeship? 32:10 – Building culture from the bottom up 34:49 – Do we need better leaders in services? 36:03 – Big vs. small: who wins the AI transition? 39:46 – The Syclum story: managing through war and the J-Curve 43:24 – “Outcome density”: what we’ll talk about in 2 years 45:10 – The coming wave of chaotic consolidation & M&A Explore More HFS Research: https://www.hfsresearch.com/ The Podcast: https://horsesmouthpodcast.com/ Phil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht/ Frank’s white paper, The Great Decoupling: https://recognize.com/the-great-decoupling/ Frank D’Souza on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/franciscodsouza About From the Horse’s Mouth: Intrepid Conversations with Phil Fersht brings together founders, executives, and contrarian thinkers for unfiltered debate on the forces reshaping business and technology. Hosted by HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht. #AI #ITServices #GenerativeAI #FutureOfWork #DigitalTransformation #Consulting #leadershiptips
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Phil pods with Accenture's Chief Strategy and Services Officer Manish Sharma: Same movie, bigger budget? Pressure-testing Accenture's reinvention bet
May 2700:27:36Tap to summarizePhil Fersht asked Accenture's Manish Sharma a blunt question: is enterprise reinvention genuinely a different operating model, or is it just transformation 2.0 with a bigger budget Manish's answer is one of the most candid conversations on the subject we've recorded this year. In this episode of From the Horse's Mouth, HFS Research CEO and Chief Analyst Phil Fersht and Accenture's Chief Strategy and Services Officer Manish Sharma cut through the noise on what enterprise reinvention actually requires. They debate the line between transformation programs that end and reinvention capabilities that compound. They name the five things every enterprise has to unblock for AI to deliver any measurable value: process, data, digital core, operating model, and talent. They walk through what the human-and-AI workforce actually looks like inside a services firm at Accenture's scale, including a concrete before-and-after example of how a mid-career Delivery Lead's day has shifted in the last 12 months. And they pressure-test the dominant narrative that AI is a productivity story, arguing the real prize is revenue and growth, but only for the enterprises willing to redeploy the capacity AI frees up. If you're running an AI program, sitting on a board reviewing one, or trying to figure out why your last five pilots stalled, this is the conversation to listen to. Connect with Phil on LinkedIn: Phil Fersht | LinkedIn Learn more about HFS Research: About us - HFS Research
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AI at a crossroads: The state of the industry on trust, leadership, and execution
Apr 2700:25:11Tap to summarizeIn this episode, Phil Fersht is joined by members of the HFS Global Advisory Board to explore why AI has reached a critical inflection point for enterprises. The panel features Malcolm Frank, Steven Hill, Mark Hodges, Cliff Justice, Mary Lacity, and Jesus Mantas, bringing together decades of leadership experience across consulting, academia, and global enterprises.Together, they discuss the growing gap between AI experimentation and real execution, and why trust, leadership conviction, and organizational design are now the biggest barriers to scaling AI. While individuals are rapidly adopting AI in their daily work, enterprises remain slowed by process debt, siloed structures, and fear-driven decision-making.The discussion also examines how AI is reshaping services, workforce models, and business outcomes, and why success will depend less on technology and more on culture, accountability, and the willingness to redesign how work gets done.To watch the full webinar, visit here: https://www.hfsresearch.com/webinar/ai-at-a-crossroads-the-state-of-the-industry-on-trust-leadership-and-execution/What you’ll hear• Why enterprises are struggling to move from AI experimentation to execution• The AI velocity gap between individuals and organizations• How trust, fear, and leadership behavior are slowing adoption• Why process debt is a bigger barrier than data or technology• The shift from effort-based services to outcome-driven models• How AI is reshaping workforce structures and middle managementKey takeaways• AI challenges are more about people, culture, and leadership than technology• Trust in AI remains a major barrier, especially at senior leadership levels• Process ownership and accountability are critical to unlocking value• Enterprises must redesign workflows, not just layer AI onto existing systems• Services firms must move toward outcome-based models to remain relevant• Organizations that act with speed and conviction will outpace competitorsChapters00:00 Introduction and panel overview00:20 Meet the HFS Global Advisory Board02:20 The AI velocity gap in enterprises04:17 Why adoption is slowing inside organizations05:02 Trust vs capability in AI adoption06:41 Lack of strategy and enterprise readiness07:59 Building trust and securing AI systems09:07 Process debt as the biggest barrier10:40 Leadership, culture, and change management12:46 Overcoming fear and driving adoption14:42 The shift to services as software16:48 Industry disruption and business model change18:28 The future of services and global impact21:09 Key takeaways from the panel24:50 Closing remarks
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Beyond LLMs into the physical world: Phil Fersht with Cathy Hackl
Apr 700:37:26Tap to summarizeIn the latest episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, Phil Fersht is joined by Cathy Hackl, the tech futurist widely known as the “Godmother of the Metaverse”. Together, they explore the failings of the metaverse, the wider emerging tech space, and what comes next for AI.Cathy makes clear that the future of AI isn’t defined by language alone. Looking beyond LLMs, it will have a much bigger impact in the physical world. That’s why Phil and Cathy discussed world models, spatial intelligence, and even why Claude can’t come to your house and change your lightbulb… Yet!They delve into the shifts we’re seeing as a result of AI, including the reality of AI-driven layoffs and how societies will have to shift when AI is embedded in everything we do.What you’ll hear in 30 minutes: What really happened to the metaverse, and which parts survived Why the future of AI extends beyond language models into the physical world How world models and spatial intelligence are reshaping the next wave of innovation Why enterprises are struggling to scale AI despite widespread adoption The growing tension between AI-driven efficiency and workforce stabilityGuest SnapshotCathy Hackl is a tech futurist, investor, and gaming executive, and a leading voice on spatial computing and the future of the internet. She has worked with global brands including Nike, Ralph Lauren, and Louis Vuitton, currently holding a role with Nokia, and is an active member of the World Economic Forum.Explore MorePhil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht/HFS Research Website: https://www.hfsresearch.com/Cathy Hackl on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cathyhackl/
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You can't cut yourself to growth: Phil Fersht with Julie Sweet
Mar 200:29:09Tap to summarizeIn the latest episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, Phil Fersht is joined by Julie Sweet, Chair and CEO of Accenture, to discuss what leadership looks like when macro volatility collides with technology advancement. In particular, they explored why cost cutting alone won’t drive enterprise growth.As organizations race to scale AI, Julie made one thing very clear: ‘You do not cut your way to growth”. The conversation pushes beyond experimentation into accountability, how enterprises scale adoption across the enterprise, and the importance of nurturing the next generation of talent.This episode tackles the real questions facing enterprise leaders: How do you drive growth, protect talent pipelines, and reinvent yourself at scale? And how do they do it all at once?What you’ll hear in 30 minutes: Why “you do not cut your way to growth” in the AI era What it means to commit AI initiatives to the P&L The core differences between proof-of-concepts and enterprise scale Why volatility is forcing significant reinvention How AI is reshaping entry level jobs, and why preserving them mattersGuest SnapshotJulie Sweet is the Chair and CEO of Accenture, responsible for 800,000 employees across approximately 120 different countries. After 15 years at the firm, she became the CEO in 2019 and has guided them through a global pandemic and the rapid advancement of AI.Explore MorePhil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht/HFS Research Website: https://www.hfsresearch.com/Julie Sweet on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julie-sweet/
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Inventing the agentic enterprise playbook at IBM: Phil Fersht with Mohamad Ali
Feb 2400:21:54Tap to summarizeIn the latest episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, Phil Fersht is joined by Mohamad Ali, Head of IBM Consulting. They delved into what happens when one of the largest services organizations begins operating more like a software firm in the AI era.The conversation covered everything from how digital workers are reshaping delivery models, to the reimagination of margin structures and how value is defined. As enterprises demand more for less, Phil and Mohamad dig into IBM Consulting’s big bets and what the next phase of technology means for the industry.What you’ll hear in 30 minutes: Why the consulting and software worlds are colliding How enterprise expectations are changing The growth of human and digital offerings. Whether AI driven efficiency shrinks margins or grows them What “trillions of agents” means for the modern enterprise Why leaders who stutter will fall behind in the AI era.Guest SnapshotMohamad Ali leads IBM Consulting, overseeing the entire global services organization that generates over $20 billion in annual revenue. He spent almost 14 years at IBM between 1996 and 2009, before embarking on an career that saw him serve as the CEO at two different companies, before ultimately returning to help lead IBM’s enterprise AI play in 2023.Explore MorePhil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht/HFS Research Website: https://www.hfsresearch.com/Mohamad Ali on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alimohamad/
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The new enterprise stack and Google's AI play: Phil Fersht with Richard Seroter
Feb 400:33:20Tap to summarizeIn the latest episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, Phil Fersht is joined by Richard Seroter, Chief Evangelist at Google Cloud. They discuss the latest developments with enterprise AI and why its impact feels different to every technology wave before it.The conversation looks deeper than flashy press releases and hype to explore how AI is reshaping behaviours, decision-making and enterprise risk. It covers everything from the shift in how people search and interact with technology to the growing tension between speed, trust, and scale.Phil and Richard delve into whether advantage comes from moving first with AI, what separates experimentation from transformation, and why AI adoption will be defined by outcomes.What you’ll hear in 30 minutes Why Google’s move into the enterprise collided with the AI explosion How ChatGPT changed consumer expectations, and what it revealed about how humans want to interact First movers versus fast followers, and why second mover advantage matters more Why Services-as-Software is growing, and what it signals about the industry’s futureGuest SnapshotRichard Seroter is the Chief Evangelist at Google Cloud, where he works across enterprises, developers, and leaders to drive outcomes with emerging technologies. Richard previously held roles at firms like VMWare, Microsoft, and Accenture.Explore More Phil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht/ HFS Research Website: https://www.hfsresearch.com/ Richard Seroter on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/seroter/
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Fast AI and fragile enterprises: Phil Fersht with Gary Hoberman
Jan 2700:36:31Tap to summarizeIn the latest episode of From the Horse’s Mouth, Phil Fersht sits down with Gary Hoberman, Founder and CEO of Unqork, to break down what’s really happening below the AI hype, and why the race to scale AI might just be deepening enterprises’ technical debt.Enterprises are discovering that speed alone isn’t the advantage they thought it was. Security, reliability, repeatability, and explainability are becoming the real bottlenecks for AI adoption. It’s exposing a divide between what can be built quickly, and what can be trusted at scale.What you’ll hear in 30 minutes Why AI is accelerating code creation, but enhancing complexity The hidden risks of low-code, AI-assisted development, and code replication Why security, reliability, repeatability, and explainability matter more than speed Why control, not velocity, will define the next phase of enterprise transformationGuest SnapshotGary Hoberman is the Founder and CEO of Unqork, a no-code enterprise application platform used across key industries like financial services, insurance, healthcare, and the public sector. He is a former CIO and technology leader at firms like Citi and MetLife, and has spent more than three decades building and scaling mission-critical systems in highly regulated environments.Explore MoreGary Hoberman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-hoberman/Phil Fersht on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pfersht/More from HFS: https://www.hfsresearch.comMore from From the Horse's Mouth: https://horsesmouthpodcast.com/
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