← Gilbert House Fellowship
Loading summary
Transcript458 lines
- [00:00]
A
Foreign.
- [00:14]
B
From the beautiful Missouri Ozarks. Greetings and welcome to the Gilbert House fellowship for Sunday, June 28, 2026. I'm Derek Gilbert.
- [00:22]
A
I am Sharon Gilbert. Welcome to our home, everyone. We are delighted that you've chosen to join us once again for. For this study of first Enoch.
- [00:30]
B
Yeah. As we've been doing for months now. I don't even remember when we started this. It's been more than a year.
- [00:36]
A
Yeah, it has been more than a year.
- [00:38]
B
Last Sunday of the month, we dig into the book of 1 Enoch because of its importance to New Testament theology. And I think there are two extreme reactions we've seen to the Book of Enoch, which when somebody says Book of Enoch they mean the Book of First Enoch.
- [00:58]
A
Second and third are just right out.
- [00:59]
B
Yeah, they're just right out. They were written in the 2nd and 3rd centuries AD. First Enoch, which we've discussed before, written in various sections beginning in the 4th century BC. The section we're in right now, the Book of Parables, completed just about the time Jesus was born. Which is why it's really interesting. One of the reasons it's interesting. But on the one hand you've got people who want to take everything in it and include it in the canon of Scripture. And on the other hand there are those who say it's not in the Bible, we should just ignore it completely. And in the middle is the correct reaction to the Book of Enoch.
- [01:41]
A
I would also just suggest one more time, if you're listening and you've heard me say it before, just take it to heart that I mean it. The late Dr. Michael Heiser's commentary two volume set on the book of First Enoch should be in your library. If you are interested in the Book of First Enoch et al, read his two volume set. You can get it through Skywatch TV store.
- [02:06]
B
We've got a link to the special offer which still is still in effect. And it's been in effect since we first since the publication of Books. His second volume in this set.
- [02:18]
A
If for some reason they're out of product, they'll let you know. But if you call and ask them if it's still available, I'm sure that they'll let you know if it is or not. But it's still on the website.
- [02:27]
B
It's still on the website. Volume 1 In his commentary it's called A Companion to the Book of Enoch. A reader's commentary. Volume one deals with the Book of Watchers which is chapters one through 36. And the section we're in now is covered by Mike's second volume. It's the Book of Parables, chapters 37 to 71. This is the section that is prophetic and is the first time you see in any Jewish writing the title the Son of Man as the title of a, of a character who has a defined role in the end times. He comes, oh, I'm sorry, he comes back to judge, execute God's judgment on rebellious angels, wicked kings, evil landlords and things like that.
- [03:16]
A
And I think it, it speaks to the knowledge base of the Essenes that they not only had a deep understanding of what we consider Old Testament canon, but they also understood that the time was ripe for Messiah to come. And I assume the Holy Spirit gave them that idea that his name, one of the many names of Jesus, would be Son of Man. Because he asks Peter, who do they say the Son of Man is?
- [03:48]
B
Right? And there was a debate going on. Some say Jeremiah, some say Elijah, some say John the Baptist. And then he asked of course, the all important question, but who do you say that I am? And it's telling. I mean, you just sort of, you know, just to kind of take for granted the Son of Man. Well, yeah, sure. Everybody back in the day knew who that was. They didn't, but they didn't. The first time that was applied as a title to anyone was in this section of First Enoch that we're reading right now, which was completed just before Jesus was born. Which means in the 30 years between the time it was written by somebody or some persons among the Essene community living near the Sea of Galilee and the time Jesus marched his followers 30 odd miles from Capernaum to Caesarea Philippi, the base of Mount Hermon, that had circulated widely enough that people knew that there was a character out there who was going to come back. He was the anointed one, the Chosen one, the Son of Man. He was going to put everything right. But who is he? What's he going to do? And that's what we're studying in First Enoch right now. So interesting stuff. Now as we go through, and we've done this already, shown that there were some contradictions in the Book of Enoch that disqualified from being scripture. But it was clearly held in very high regard by the apostles. Jude quotes it directly. Things like Paul's teaching of women covering their heads because of the angels. That's not in the Old Testament. No, but it's in the Book of Watchers.
- [05:28]
A
I love the way Mike Heiser used to put it. You know what, those disciples, they read books.
- [05:35]
B
Yeah, yeah. And this is one that clearly had been read by the disciples. And Jesus was clearly comfortable with the title the Son of Man because he applied it to himself 78 times in the New Testament.
- [05:52]
A
Exactly. Well, we need to pray before we begin.
- [05:56]
B
We will open with a word of prayer. We thank you, Father, for bringing us together over your word today. And Lord, we just pray as we study that you free us from distractions because the enemy will constantly throw things at us to draw our attention elsewhere. Father, we pray for the ability to focus during this time, for clarity of thought and word, for wisdom and discernment. May we understand the lessons that you would have us take away from this reading. And Lord, may it strengthen our faith knowing that we are reading a text that was read 2000 years ago by the men and women who followed Jesus and wanted to know, was he this anointed one, this chosen one? And Peter answered that question. You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. May we draw from this reading the lessons that you would have us learn. And we ask this in Jesus name. Amen.
- [07:15]
A
Amen. I have a question for you.
- [07:17]
B
Yes.
- [07:19]
A
Thank you for praying. By the way, when these were originally written, this was at a time when the disciples who read books would have been reading the scriptures. They would have been hearing them at synagogue, hearing them read aloud and discussed, but they also would have read the Greek version because that was the lingua franca, the language, the common language amongst people in the Levant at the time. So was first Enoch written in Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic?
- [07:55]
B
Good question. I would have to go back and dig into some of the commentaries by Mike, by George W.E. nickelsberg. Who. I've got a commentary of who. Who's written a commentary on first Enoch that we've got as well.
- [08:13]
A
Yeah. The reason I ask that is a. I didn't know, which is why I asked. But I think the language that most of the early translators back in the 19th century were using was the Ethiopic text. Yes, that. I assume it was written in Ethiopian.
- [08:34]
B
Yeah, the. The language of Ethiopia as G, E, apostrophe, E, Z. And there are texts that are available in Greek, Aramaic and Syriac, so might have been Greek. Because the oldest section, which is chapters one to 36, the book of Watchers, was written toward the end of the fourth century B.C. in other words, leading up to about 300 B.C.
- [09:04]
A
when just about everybody was speaking or writing.
- [09:06]
B
Right. Because Alexander the Great had conquered the Levant around 32332 BC if I remember my dates correctly, I could be off by A decade or so. But anyway, toward the end of the 4th century BC the Greeks came in and began to Hellenize their subject peoples. Learn Greek, speak Greek, be Greek. And that caused some.
- [09:30]
A
Make Greek great again.
- [09:32]
B
Yeah. Which. Which eventually led in the 160s BC to the rebellion by the Maccabees when Antiochus Epiphany slaughtered a pig in the, you know, temple.
- [09:43]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Foreshadowing what will one day happen again. And he not only did that, he also set up a statue of Zeus.
- [09:50]
B
Set up a statue. You're correct. Yeah. And that was something that the. Yeah. Religious Jews could not bear. And that big mistake that led to the rebellion and a brief period of independence for Jews in Judea. But it may have been Aramaic, because I know that there are some Aramaic texts of first Enoch that have been found. What's interesting about the section that we're in right now, again, and I know we mentioned this at the beginning, when we got to chapter 37, is that no copy of this section, the Book of Parables, chapters 37 to 71, has been found at Qumran. Most people. I assumed before I started digging into this that all of the Essenes lived at Qumran. Not true. There were Essenes all over Judea. There was an Essene quarter in Jerusalem which was granted to them by Herod the Great. The Essene community actually began in the north around the Sea of Galilee. And there was a split around the year 100 BC as the followers of a character we only know as the Teacher of Righteousness, who may have been the high priest between the years 160 and 152 BC, who said to Jonathan Maccabee, who was a successor to his brother, Judah Maccabee, you cannot be the high priest. Which was an office that was offered to him. I'm getting too deep in the weeds. Anyway, he had to flee for his life and probably went to Damascus.
- [11:27]
A
They disagreed over politics.
- [11:29]
B
Yes. And the political dispute led to the group that split off from the Essenes living by the Sea of Galilee, and they went south to the Dead Sea and created their community there. But this section here, the Book of Parables prophesying the Anointed One, Chosen One, Son of Man. The Son of Man also has in chapter 51, the teaching that John the Baptist brought of a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins, which was brand new. Brand new and heretical.
- [12:07]
A
Probably thought to be heretical at the time.
- [12:09]
B
Exactly. I mean, not only would the Zadokite priesthood in Jerusalem have said oh, no, no, no, no, no. You got to come to the temple. You got to make your sacrifices. That's how you get forgiveness. But the Essenes at Qumran would have found this heretical as well. So this was a new doctrine, and that's why priests and Levites came from Jerusalem to John and said, what is this baptism of forgiveness? Who gives you the right to do this? So anyway, there was some pretty radical stuff that is coming out of First Enoch, but it's in the New Testament.
- [12:46]
A
Well, now, getting to First Enoch, the reading before we begin. You begin reading in what is the chapter? Chapter 61, for those playing the game at home.
- [12:57]
B
Yes.
- [12:58]
A
If you are reading from the Skywatch TV edition, it is on page 41. Chapter 61 is on page 41 of the hardback book that you got from Defender. I just want to. Just really very briefly, Enoch, or the person taken around has. Because this. Enoch did not write this. This is pseudepigraphal.
- [13:25]
B
Right.
- [13:25]
A
So it uses his name, but it's really telling his story. He is led on a journey of seeing the rain and things like that coming out. So we've just seen the spirit of the dew at the ends of heaven, Spirit of rain going forth, the waters going forth for those who dwell upon the earth. And these things in verse 40. And these things I saw towards the garden of the righteous. And the angel of peace who was with me said to me, these two. I'm reading from the Winter version, by the way. These two monsters, Leviathan and Behemoth, prepared conformably to the greatness of God shall feed. And. And then we come in to this week's episode.
- [14:10]
B
Yeah, I'm reading from a more modern translation. Sharon's looking at the J. Winter, Dr. Jay Winter, and also the R.H. charles translation, which was done about. About a century ago, around 1920, 1917, somewhere in there.
- [14:28]
A
He started working on it in the 18, late 1880s, early 90s.
- [14:33]
B
Yeah. And there was an older translation by a fellow named Lawrence. And by the way, we've got. No, not te. This was done in the early 19th century. These are available for free online, and we've got links to those in the study notes. So if you want to check the study notes@gilberthouse.org or wherever you're following this podcast, you can find a link that will take you to the free online versions of R.H. charles, the Lawrence translation, Dr. J. Winter's translation. His translation is a little confusing, even though the language is very similar to Charles. Yeah, it's just he chose to Redo all of the chapter and verse numbers, which I'm not sure why he.
- [15:16]
A
Then he moved a few things around.
- [15:18]
B
Yeah. I'm looking at the Hermenea translation done by George W. E. Nickelsberg and James Vanderkam, two more modern scholars of the Enochian literature. He concluded that phrase, by the way, that you just read these two monsters, prepared according to the greatness of the Lord, will provide food for the chosen and righteous.
- [15:39]
A
That's very different than shall feed.
- [15:42]
B
Yeah. And so the text is. This is their. Their note their footnote on that. The reason they added that little addendum, text is defective. Followed by a section that appears to connect to verse 6 above. Manuscripts have a snarl of duplications and omissions in the next five lines. A snarl?
- [16:08]
A
I say, well, in the RH, Charles, it says, shall feed, dot, dot, dot.
- [16:13]
B
Yeah.
- [16:14]
A
So was there a lacunae, a missing portion there?
- [16:17]
B
Yes. And what Nicholsburg and Vanderkam have done is they basically collated texts, not just the Ethiopic, but Greek, Syriac, Aramaic, and tried to come up with a better original or something closer to the original. Yeah. So chapter 61. And I saw in those days, long cords were given to those angels and they took for themselves wings and flew toward the north.
- [16:44]
A
I know we need to stop and talk about that for a second. Mike Heiser would often say that our depiction of angels with wings isn't necessarily true.
- [16:59]
B
Right.
- [17:00]
A
When we see quote, unquote, angels, denizens who normally live in the heavenly realms here on Earth, they appear as men. They don't have wings. Right. However, when they're in the heavenly realms, some of them do have wings. In fact, some of them have three sets.
- [17:18]
B
Yes.
- [17:19]
A
So took to themselves wings. It almost sounds like they have an option. Yeah, I'm gonna borrow some wings. Oh, Lord, can I use my wings today?
- [17:30]
B
Or strap on my.
- [17:31]
A
Yeah, just go through the armory and grab a set of wings or.
- [17:35]
B
Yeah, took for themselves wings and flew. Reading now from Mike's commentary, as I've written elsewhere, the idea that angels in the Bible had wings is untrue. The misguided idea has its roots in the conflation of angels, malakim, meaning messengers, with cherubim, Cherubim and Seraphim, which do, as you said, have wings. All three of these terms describe roles or functions, essentially job descriptions, not the ontological nature of the heavenly beings that bear these labels.
- [18:13]
A
Right.
- [18:14]
B
So, okay, today I'm going to be one of the Caravim. So I need, you know, two sets of wings, and tomorrow I'm going to be one of the seraphim. So I need three sets.
- [18:23]
A
Goes into the armory.
- [18:25]
B
Yeah. And takes themselves wings.
- [18:29]
A
Could be that it's one of those things where. Because. Oh, gosh, I'm drawing a blank. Oh, gosh. Missler. Chuck Missler. I wanted to call him something else for a minute. Dr. Chuck Missler, who's also with the Lord. Boy, I'll tell you, between Heiser Horn and Mistler, the conversations that must be going on here. But Chuck Missler often talked about how Adam probably had access to nine or ten dimensions originally.
- [19:04]
B
Yeah.
- [19:04]
A
So we would, in our three dimensional construct, things would just appear if they were brought into our 3D space.
- [19:15]
B
Right.
- [19:16]
A
We wouldn't see where they were prior to that. So could this be a spatial thing? Could be that my wings aren't needed. And so I just put them into this other dimension. They go invisible.
- [19:30]
B
That. Who knows?
- [19:32]
A
I don't know.
- [19:33]
B
Who knows?
- [19:34]
A
Who knows? Yes, Dr. Who?
- [19:37]
B
Nicholsburg and Vanderkam have a comment on this as well. Contrary to popular opinion, there's no evidence from the Greco Roman period and earlier that angels were outfitted with wings. In the Bible, these appendages are attributed only to the seraphim in Isaiah 6:2 and the creatures that surround the chariot in Ezekiel 1:6, verses 1. Ezekiel chapter 1. The ophanim, the cherubim.
- [20:05]
A
Oh, cherubim. Yeah. They're also ophanim.
- [20:07]
B
Yeah. Which are the wheels with the eyes all around.
- [20:10]
A
Yeah, exactly.
- [20:10]
B
In neither of these passages are these being said to be angels. Malachim. And in both instances, the wings function mainly to cover the body. When it says with the seraphim in Isaiah that it covers the feet. Feet is a euphemism.
- [20:27]
A
Yep. I think it's possible that because we see the word angel over and over again through these passages that it's called an angel because this was an angel sent to deliver a message. Deliver a message to help as a messenger.
- [20:46]
B
Yeah. So I think only the Seraphim In Isaiah 6, two wings they flew. Two wings covered their eyes and two wings there. You know, their modesty. So interesting. Yeah. They took for themselves wings and flew toward. Went toward the north. And interesting again, the north being a cosmic direction, the north being the direction of the palace of baal.
- [21:13]
A
And that may be why we see a messenger angel, one of the Malachim, because that's what it means, messenger. It's Angelos in Greek, I think.
- [21:25]
B
Yeah.
- [21:26]
A
Which is where we get angel. But he wouldn't have had wings originally. His normal state wouldn't have Been. But when you're given this. Here. Here's some wings because you got to fly.
- [21:39]
B
Yeah. Yeah. It's like borrowing a.
- [21:42]
A
It's like getting in a.
- [21:43]
B
Getting a.
- [21:44]
A
Getting a vehicle from the motor pool. Yeah, exactly. Very much like.
- [21:49]
B
And I asked the angel, why did these take the cords and go? And he said to me, they went so that they may measure. Yeah. And the angel went with me, said to me, these will bring the measurements of the righteous and the ropes of the righteous to the righteous so that they may rely on the name of the Lord of spirits forever and ever.
- [22:11]
A
Now, that's interesting. Read that again, because that's a relic. Rather convoluted English sentence.
- [22:19]
B
And the angel who went with me said to me, these will bring the measurements of the righteous and the ropes of the righteous to the righteous, so that they may rely on the name of the Lord of spirits forever and ever.
- [22:31]
A
It's a little different in the winter. These shall bring the measures of the righteous and the ropes of the righteous to the righteous. In other words, they're bringing a measuring guide, not bringing measurements, which is like it's 10 inches, but bringing a measure that's ruler. So measures and ropes. Seems more like they work together to me. But so that they may stay. Themselves. Stay fixed on the name of the Lord of spirits forever and ever. It's like, almost like these are the rules. I don't know.
- [23:18]
B
Yeah. It seems to me it's almost like the angel in Ezekiel who is given a measuring line and told to measure out the temple. And then we see that angel again, apparently in the book of Revelation, measuring out the. What is the courts of the. The Gentiles.
- [23:39]
A
Yes, exactly. The difference here is that it's for individual living beings, the righteous. So the ropes of the righteous to the righteous.
- [23:53]
B
Yeah.
- [23:53]
A
So that they may stay. Themselves, stay fixed on or stay true to. It's a very odd sentence.
- [24:04]
B
Yeah.
- [24:05]
A
It's like, okay, they're righteous, so are these righteous on earth? That would be my guess, because when you are in eternity, one wouldn't think that you need to be corrected in course corrections.
- [24:25]
B
Yeah. There is a comparison by Vanderkam and Nickelsberg to Zechariah, chapter two. And I'm skipping over there. Just take a look at it. And I lifted my eyes and saw, and behold a man with a measuring line in his hand. And I said, where are you going? And he said to me, to measure Jerusalem, to see what its width and what is its length. What is its width and what is its length? And yeah, interestingly, Read the next verse
- [25:03]
A
and that may help a little bit.
- [25:07]
B
Verse 4. And the chosen will begin to dwell with the chosen and the chosen. Typically, when you see it in first Enochs, referring to the Essenes.
- [25:17]
A
Yeah.
- [25:17]
B
Well, the righteous ones.
- [25:20]
A
It says the elect here, but it's the same idea.
- [25:23]
B
Yeah. And these are the measurements that will be given to faith, and they will strengthen righteousness. And these measurements will reveal all the secrets of the depths of the earth, and those who were destroyed by the desert and those who were devoured by beasts and those who were devoured by the fish of the sea so that they may return rely on the day of the chosen one. For no one shall be destroyed in the presence of the Lord of spirits, and no one is able to be destroyed.
- [25:56]
A
That same verse in the winter. And these measures shall reveal all the secrets of the depths of the earth and those who have been destroyed by the desert and those who have been devoured by the beasts and those who have been devoured by the fish of the sea, that they may return and stay themselves on the day of the elect one. The day of the elect one.
- [26:21]
B
Yeah. Day of the Lord, basically.
- [26:23]
A
Yeah. That's exactly what that is. That they may stay. Stay themselves. It's like our. Our English word stay has changed. Keep fixed on. And it's. We're supposed to look forward to that day and learn about that day.
- [26:43]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [26:44]
A
For none shall be destroyed before the Lord of Spirits, and none can be destroyed, basically.
- [26:53]
B
Excuse me. These measurements are revealing all the places where the dead would be found.
- [27:03]
A
Mm.
- [27:03]
B
And we're not just talking about, like, you know, six feet under the grave, we're talking about shale.
- [27:08]
A
Right.
- [27:10]
B
And they will be returned on that day, the day of judgment, the day of Yahweh, the day of the Lord, and will no longer be and essentially will live forever at that point.
- [27:22]
A
Yes, I think so. Those who have died in the lord.
- [27:26]
B
Right. Verse 6. And all who are in the heights of heaven received a command and power. And one voice and one light like fire were given to him. And that one before anything, they blessed with their voice, and they exalted and glorified with wisdom. We're talking about the Chosen One here.
- [27:47]
A
The Son of the One is a capital O.
- [27:49]
B
Yes. And they exalted. They exalted and glorified with wisdom, and they were wise in speech and in the spirit of life. And the Lord of Spirits seated the Chosen one upon the throne of glory.
- [28:05]
A
Seated. Just so you know, it's S E A T. Seated.
- [28:08]
B
Yes.
- [28:08]
A
Yeah. Placed is what it says here, and
- [28:11]
B
he will judge all the works of the holy ones in the heights of heaven. The holy ones referring to. Perhaps to righteous humans, but based on what we've seen in Daniel chapter four may be a reference to the faithful watchers. And in the balance, he will weigh their deeds.
- [28:35]
A
I want to talk about what you just said for a minute, because the idea of the angels being judged is not a common idea.
- [28:47]
B
True.
- [28:49]
A
One would think if they've been loyal all this time, then it's a done deal. They've been loyal in the winter, it says, and all who dwell above in the heaven received a command and power and one voice and one light likened to fire, and that one capital O. With their first words, they blessed and extolled and lauded with wisdom, and they were wise in utterance. And the Spirit of life and the Lord of spirits placed the elect one on the throne of glory. And he shall judge all the works of the holy above in the heaven, and in the balance shall their deeds be weighed. This sounds like the judgment seat of Christ.
- [29:43]
B
Yeah, it does. It's. You know, I don't know that this is a huge question one way or the other, but, you know, verses 6, 7, and 8 there, where the ones, all of those who are in the heights of heaven lift up their voice, blessing with their voice, exalting, glorifying. Is this directed at God or is it directed at the Messiah, the Chosen One?
- [30:14]
A
Directed at the one. And I'd say at that point, you have to remember they are one.
- [30:21]
B
Yeah.
- [30:21]
A
They just have different roles.
- [30:26]
B
That's one of those things that we tend to. That's easy to forget. In fact, we had a question that we addressed here a few weeks ago. How could Jesus descend to the abyss and then still, you know, come back three days later and yet still say to the thief on the cross, this day you will be with me in paradise. Well. Oh, yeah. Trinity. Jesus is the Father.
- [30:52]
A
Exactly.
- [30:52]
B
Yeah. Father, Son, Holy Spirit. So, yeah, I don't think that's really that important a question, but it is clear here that this chosen 1 in 1st Enoch is equated with the Father because who gets to sit on that throne except for God himself?
- [31:15]
A
Exactly. What is the. The psalm? My Lord. The Lord said to my Lord.
- [31:24]
B
Psalm 110, verse 1. Yeah. Sit at my right hand until I made your enemies a footstool beneath your feet.
- [31:30]
A
Right.
- [31:31]
B
Yeah. And Jesus used that to confound his critics. Yeah. So if this is. How is it possible that I'd have to go back and look. Look at the Verses now. But the Lord said to my Lord.
- [31:48]
A
Yeah, this isn't David being given a throne. Really nice.
- [31:51]
B
David's dead in the grave. So is it. How's it. You know. And they didn't ask him any more questions after that. Verse 9. And when he will lift up his face to judge their secret ways according to the word of the name of the Lord of Spirits.
- [32:07]
A
I'm sorry, I've lost where you are.
- [32:10]
B
It was after. In the balance. He will weigh their deeds.
- [32:17]
A
Okay.
- [32:19]
B
And when he will lift up his face to judge their secret ways according to the word of the name of the Lord of Spirits. And again. Name theology. Name is just another personification of God himself.
- [32:32]
A
Let me read the next verse to you from Winter, and you're going to understand why I was confused.
- [32:38]
B
Okay.
- [32:38]
A
And thus the Lord commanded the kings and the mighty and the exalted and those who dwell on the earth, and said, open your eyes and lift up your horns in. If you are able to recognize the elect one.
- [32:50]
B
Okay, going back. And I'm looking at Charles and so forth. Nope, Winter. Winter is the one who.
- [33:01]
A
He reordered things.
- [33:02]
B
Reordered things. There. Yeah.
- [33:04]
A
Well, thanks a lot, Jay.
- [33:11]
B
And when he will lift up his face to judge their secret ways according to the word of the name of the Lord of Spirits, and their paths according to the way of the righteous judgment of the Lord of Spirits. They will all speak with one voice and bless and glorify and exalt and sanctify the name of the Lord of Spirits. And all the host of the heavens will cry out. And all the holy ones in the heights and the host of the Lord. Okay, it looks like they.
- [33:40]
A
What verse are you on again?
- [33:41]
B
This is verse 10.
- [33:42]
A
Okay, sorry.
- [33:43]
B
All the hosts of heaven will cry out. And all the holy ones in the heights and the host of the Lord. And here it's spelled the cherubim, in which is the Aramaic. Aramaic plural. Right. Instead of I am the cherubim. The Seraphine and the Ophanim.
- [34:01]
A
Told you.
- [34:02]
B
Yeah. And all the angels of power and all the angels of the dominions, and the chosen one.
- [34:09]
A
What verse are you on again? Sorry, I'm reading in this one here. It's not quite the same as what you're reading.
- [34:17]
B
Verse 10. And all the host of the heavens will cry out. And all the holy ones in the heights, and the host of the Lord, the cherubim, the seraphim and the ophanim, and all the angels of power, and all the angels of the dominions, and the Chosen One, and The other host who are on the dry land and over the water on that day. And they will raise one voice. And they will bless and glorify and exalt with the spirit of faithfulness and with the spirit of wisdom, and with the spirit of long suffering, and with the spirit of mercy, and with the spirit of judgment and peace, and with the spirit of goodness. And they will all say with one voice, blessed is he, and blessed be the name of the Lord of spirits forever and ever. And all who sleep not in the heights of heaven will bless him.
- [35:07]
A
Can you stop for a minute? Should we get seven spirits in there?
- [35:12]
B
See? Spirit of faithfulness, spirit of wisdom, spirit of long suffering, Spirit of mercy, Spirit of judgment and peace. Spirit of goodness. Well, spirit of judgment, if you count peace, that would be seven. Yes. Faithfulness, wisdom, long suffering, mercy, judgment, peace, goodness. That's seven. Seven spirits. We see that in Isaiah 11 and also in Revelation, the seven spirits before the throne of God. Yeah. All who sleep not in the heights of heaven will bless him. Likely a reference to the watchers. They're not sleeping, they're watching. And all the holy ones who are in heaven will bless him. And all the chosen who dwell in the garden of life, these are those
- [36:01]
A
who have gone from an earthly form to an eternal form.
- [36:06]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [36:07]
A
Now get to live in the. Essentially, Eden, the garden of the king.
- [36:13]
B
That's right.
- [36:18]
A
Yeah.
- [36:18]
B
Mike's got some longer comments here on the. The breakdown of the difference between the cherubim, the seraphim, and the ophanim.
- [36:26]
A
Yeah. In the. The Rh. Charles. It's the Aramaic ending on seraphine and ophanine.
- [36:35]
B
Yeah.
- [36:35]
A
And it says caravik.
- [36:38]
B
Oh, interesting.
- [36:39]
A
Yeah.
- [36:40]
B
I see the Hebrew term translated cherub or carav, derives from Akkadian. It's an Acadian word.
- [36:49]
A
Makes sense.
- [36:50]
B
It's from the Akkadian word caribou, which means to pray.
- [36:55]
A
That's really interesting, considering a caribou is an animal. That looks a bit bovine.
- [37:02]
B
Yeah. The idea there, as the caravim, as those who pray being the ones who separate the divine, they're the ones who basically separate the throne of God from everybody else.
- [37:23]
A
It's the big warning that says, holy space, don't go over here because you'll die.
- [37:29]
B
Right. They mark the division between the divine and the profane. The seraphim are also guardians of sacred space and likely drawn from Egyptian. Most common interpretation of the etymology. From the Hebrew verb meaning to burn. So the burning ones. But as Mike wrote in his book the Unseen Realm, it's More likely that seraphim derives from the Hebrew noun seraph, which means serpent, which is in turn drawn from the Egyptian throne guardian, like the Uraeus serpent that was always seen on the headdress worn by the pharaoh. And Ophanim, of course, means wheels, as we see in Ezekiel, chapter one. And yes, I was right. All who sleep not above in heaven. The watchers. Always nice to know when you find myself on the same. Same page as Mike Heiser, but also
- [38:31]
A
our Lord the creator, Yahweh. He never sleeps.
- [38:35]
B
That is true.
- [38:36]
A
He never slumbers, nor sleeps, unlike the rising and dying gods that do sleep.
- [38:42]
B
And unlike Derek Gilbert, who spends half his life asleep.
- [38:47]
A
But that means you spend half your life awake, honey. So that's pretty good.
- [38:50]
B
Yeah, 50% or better. Yeah. And every spirit of light that is able to bless and glorify and exalt and sanctify your blessed name and all flesh that in excess of its power.
- [39:03]
A
What verse are you on again?
- [39:04]
B
That's the second half of verse 12. I'll start at the beginning of verse 12 again. And all who sleep not in the heights of heaven will bless him. And all the holy ones who are in heaven will bless him. And all the chosen who dwell in the garden of life. And every spirit of light that is able to bless and glorify and exalt and sanctify your blessed name. And all flesh that in excess of its power glorifies and blesses your name forever and ever. For great is the mercy of the Lord of spirits. And he is slow to anger in all his deeds and all his mighty acts, as many as he has done, he is revealed to the righteous and the chosen. In the name of the Lord of spirits.
- [39:48]
A
Hallelujah. A lot of that language is very familiar because there are verses in the Old Testament that sound very much like these. Okay. Chapter 62 in the RH Charles. And if I can figure out where it is in the winter.
- [40:12]
B
And again, I beg your forgiveness for the hacking and coughing. This is just one of the consequences, One of the effects of this autoimmune issue. I've constantly got stuff on my vocal cords.
- [40:22]
A
Yeah, it's just the way it is. The RH Charles beginning. I mean it. Seriously, it is so different. He clearly moved things around because you get into a woman in travail. I mean, there's a lot of stuff in here. For instance, verse 60 in this section where I am. It's a section you just read for from the beginning. The Son of Man was hidden, and the Most High Preserved him in the presence of his might and revealed him to the elect. I know.
- [41:02]
B
She just noticed my look of confusion. That doesn't sound like anything we just read.
- [41:06]
A
Yeah, but where? Yeah, that's why occasionally, if I was looking over at the Winter and trying to figure out, okay, he's just completely reordered. I'm betting that we've already either covered this previously in the more traditional translations. Jay Winter, why didn't you just follow the normal format? Dude, because getting creative is really good. I have no doubt that his actual translation, verse for verse, is reliable. It's just he moved things around.
- [41:45]
B
Yeah, and Nickelsberg and Vanderkamp did as well, but not quite as confusingly.
- [41:48]
A
Oh, he's. He's terrible. Well, I'm going to be reading from the RH Charles then. Chapter 62. Have no idea where it is in the winter. I'll try to figure out another day. So, beginning in verse one of chapter 62. And thus the Lord commanded the kings and the mighty and the exalted, and those who dwell on the earth, and said, open your eyes and lift up your horns if you're able to recognize the electron. In fact, I think that may be where. Yes, I know where we are. In the Nicholsburg. In the winter.
- [42:22]
B
Dr. Winter translation.
- [42:24]
A
Yeah, it's verse 52 in that section now. I know. And the Lord of spirits seated him on the throne of his glory, and the spirit of righteousness was poured out upon him. And the word of his mouth slays all the sinners. The word of his mouth. The sword of his mouth, you might say. Because when Jesus returns, he only has to speak a word and people die.
- [42:59]
B
Yeah. This is God putting the Messiah on the throne of judgment.
- [43:05]
A
Exactly. And all the unrighteous are destroyed from before his face. And there shall stand up in that day all the kings and the mighty and the exalted, and those who hold the earth. And they shall see and recognize how he sits on the throne of his glory, and righteousness is judged before him, and no lying word is spoken before him. Then shall. This is. See, I told you we're getting to a woman in Travail. What did I tell you? Yeah, so I had caught up. And then they shall see and recognize how he sits on the throne of his glory, and righteousness is judged before him, and no lying word is spoken before him. Verse 4. Then shall pain come upon them as on a woman in travail. And she has pain in bringing forth when her child enters the mouth of the womb, and she has pain in bringing forth. And one portion of them shall look on the other and they shall be terrified. Any of you ladies. I've never given birth, so I can't speak to this. I've only read the descriptions. But any of you ladies out there who has given birth, I. I'm guessing you know exactly what this feels like. And they shall be terrified, it says, and they shall be downcast of countenance. And pain shall seize them when they see that Son of Man sitting on the throne of his glory. And the kings and the mighty and all who possess the earth shall bless and glorify and extol him who rules over all. Who was hidden. Who was hidden. For from the beginning, the Son of Man was hidden. And the Most High preserved him in the presence of his might and revealed him to the elect.
- [45:25]
B
This is interesting. He was hidden from the beginning. This is. Reminds me of Paradise Lost.
- [45:41]
A
Oh, yes.
- [45:42]
B
Where John Milton described the surprise of Satan and his minions at God being more powerful than he let on.
- [45:51]
A
They were angry.
- [45:52]
B
Yeah.
- [45:53]
A
Hey. He dared to hide some of his powers.
- [45:56]
B
And here it would seem that He. This seems to speak to that actually that God had a plan from the beginning, knowing the end from the beginning, that not only would some of the angelic realm fall and choose to rebel against him, but here, I mean, the kings and the mighty and the exalted and those who own the land, humans would also rebel. And the Son of Man was his plan to redeem humanity from the punishment that would befall all of us because of the sin of Adam and Eve in the garden. Their rebellion in the garden.
- [46:44]
A
I really want to quickly get into this idea of the elect because we're seeing this word again and again and again throughout here. There's a major misunderstanding that this means that the Lord chooses you. Okay. I'm going to pick you, but not you. No, he foreknew your choice.
- [47:06]
B
Yeah.
- [47:07]
A
He didn't make it for you. He didn't program you. He simply knew ahead of time. He looked forward into time because everything is now to the Lord. He knew how you would receive him. He would accept him. And so that's. It's this archaic term. Archaic to us in many ways. This is an Elizabethan word. We are set apart because the Lord knew always that you would accept him. Think that. Oh, gosh, I don't. If you're listening and you haven't accepted Christ as your savior, don't think that you don't have a chance because you haven't done it. Don't think that it Isn't in your power to make that choice until your last breath, you have the power to make that choice.
- [48:03]
B
Yeah, hardcore Calvinists would argue against that idea.
- [48:07]
A
They would call it works based, right? Oh, it's a work.
- [48:10]
B
Yeah. You're making a choice that's a work. Like, no free will. God gives us a choice. And he didn't create billions of humans specifically and say, okay, you're all condemned. You're all going to, you know, the Lake of Fire and the second death. That would be evil. God is not evil. No, he does not abrogate our ability to make free will decisions, nor did he do it with the spirit realm. But yeah, this is really an intriguing section here. For from the beginning, the Son of Man was hidden and the Most High preserved him in the presence of his might. And then he revealed them to the chosen, like. Oh, yeah.
- [48:53]
A
Yes. So verse eight. And the congregation of the elect and holy shall be sown S o W N as in sowing seeds. And all the elect shall stand before him on that day. And all the kings and the mighty and the exalted and those who rule the earth shall fall down before him on their faces and worship and set their hope upon the Son of Man and petition him and supplicate for mercy at his hands. Nevertheless, the Lord of Spirits will so press them that they shall hastily go forth from his presence. And their faces shall be filled with shame and the darkness grow deeper on their faces. And he will deliver them to the angels for punishment, to execute vengeance on them because they have oppressed his children and his elect. And they shall be a spectacle for the righteous and for his elect. They shall rejoice over them because the wrath of the Lord of Spirits resteth upon them and his sword is drunk with their blood. Now this will happen physically when the
- [50:36]
B
Lord comes back, right, the day of Yahweh.
- [50:39]
A
His sword will be drunk with their blood. He will be. With the sword of his mouth. He will speak. And they will fall down dead, I think. But there is a judgment after that. And I think that this is such a tragedy that anyone would pass from this life to the next and then realize, I wasted my entire existence.
- [51:13]
B
Yeah. Chasing after things that didn't really matter.
- [51:15]
A
Chasing after things. Exactly. And now I realize what does. And so we see them begging, please.
- [51:23]
B
Yeah.
- [51:27]
A
Give mercy.
- [51:28]
B
Yeah.
- [51:29]
A
But they gave no mercy to his children.
- [51:32]
B
Exactly. And so it's too late. Sorry.
- [51:35]
A
Yeah. Verse 12 again. And they shall be a spectacle for the righteous and for his elect. They shall rejoice over them because the Wrath of the Lord of spirits resteth upon them. And his sword is drunk with their blood. And the righteous and the elect shall be saved on that day. And they shall never thenceforward see the face of the sinners and the unrighteous. And the Lord of spirits will abide with them. Sorry. Will abide over them. And with them that Son of man shall they eat and lie down and rise up forever and ever. Marriage. Supper of the Lamb.
- [52:23]
B
Yeah. Uhhuh.
- [52:25]
A
And the righteous and elect shall have risen from the earth and ceased to be of downcast countenance. And they shall have been clothed with garments of glory. And these shall. Shall be the garments of life from the Lord of Spirits. And your garments shall not grow old. Now your glory pass away, nor your glory pass away before the Lord of spirits. I think your garments won't grow old. I think it's more than just, hey, my clothes aren't going to wear out. I think it's. We don't age.
- [52:59]
B
I think you're right. Yeah. The garment of life.
- [53:02]
A
Yeah. Yeah. This reminds me a lot of. This section. Reminds me so much of the book of Revelation where you see the. The spirits under the altar that are asking, you know, those who have been slain, how long before you avenge us? How long, O Lord, before we get to see, you know, our oppressors have to kneel before you and realize they're going to be judged. Yeah.
- [53:32]
B
Yeah. This is definitely a. The Lord's Supper, the marriage supper of the lamb. I mean, the ultimate Lord's supper that we'll see in the end times. And, you know, scholars. Mike cites the work of several scholars here as I'm looking at his reader's commentary, comparing it to, well, what we see in Ezekiel 39 and Revelation 19, but also just, you know, the fact that resurrection is pointed to in chapters like verses, like Isaiah 26, 19. They are dead, they will not live. They are Rephaim, they will not rise.
- [54:18]
A
They will not rise.
- [54:19]
B
And then in verse 19 of Isaiah 26, talking about the. Those in the grave rejoice for the. The dew of the Lord. And I'm paraphrasing because I don't have it open in front of me is a dew of light. So, you know, Job talking.
- [54:38]
A
Job, where he says, I'm going to see it with my own eyes.
- [54:41]
B
Right, Right. So that's. That's kind of what's being described here in 1st Enoch 62, toward the end of that chapter, this. Yeah. With the Son of Man, they will eat and they will lie down and rise up forever and ever. In other words, resurrection. And we will, as Jesus said in the Resurrection, we will be like the angels in heaven, neither marrying nor giving in marriage, because we're not going to die. We don't need to procreate.
- [55:12]
A
Exactly.
- [55:12]
B
Yeah. So. Well, that kind of what I thought. I thought we'd get through these two chapters today. That. But again, giving some definition to the role of the Son of Man, the chosen one, the anointed one, and what he will do. He will be the one who is passing judgment. And the. We see here the condemnation of the kings and the mighty. And we will get into next month's. Well, next month we're going to be in Ohio, so we won't have a study in First Enoch in July. So when we get into August, we will see some of the punishment that is meted out to the rebellious fallen angels, the watchers who've rebelled against his authority, God's authority. So, yeah, this was all new stuff. And this section of First Enoch was written probably in the last decade or so of the first century bc Just before the death of Herod the Great and the birth of Jesus and John the Baptist and Corporation. Clearly it spread out in that area up in the Galilee where that community of Essenes was located. And it's not coincidental that Jesus based his ministry there. I write about this in my forthcoming book, War of the Watchers. Book one.
- [56:48]
A
That'll be out in August, right?
- [56:49]
B
September.
- [56:50]
A
Oh, September. Okay.
- [56:51]
B
Yeah. Yeah. It was thought at first it was going to be August, but now it's September 21st is the date.
- [56:56]
A
Oh, well, that's a wonderful date. The autumnal equinox. Oh, easy to remember.
- [57:03]
B
Okay.
- [57:03]
A
Plus, it's just one day before my sister's birthday.
- [57:05]
B
Wasn't. Wasn't thinking about either of those things. Had to be honest.
- [57:09]
A
You were thinking about Faye's birthday.
- [57:11]
B
I wasn't. Sorry, Faye, but. Well, make sure to get her a copy. Faye, God bless her, has been telling us that she's been following our stuff and she's been learning, learning about the Nephilim and wondering why more pastors aren't there out there teaching about it.
- [57:28]
A
I know it. She's great.
- [57:29]
B
God bless her.
- [57:29]
A
I love her so much.
- [57:30]
B
Faye is awesome. All of your sisters are awesome. I was very blessed.
- [57:36]
A
Oh, I know. If you follow my niece, Liz Broadus. Faye is her mother.
- [57:40]
B
Yeah. Yeah. And so.
- [57:43]
A
So that's why Liz is such a firecracker, because of Faye.
- [57:47]
B
And Faye is very proud of Liz, and rightly so. But yeah, that section of One Enoch coming out just as it. As it did just before the birth of Jesus, I think is just so remarkable and points to the fact that there really wasn't. There weren't any silent centuries between the end of the Book of Malachi and the beginning of the Gospel of Matthew.
- [58:13]
A
No, not really. Not at all.
- [58:16]
B
So. Because in that section you had the Book of the Watchers written, which really helped understand better what happened in Genesis 6, why the world's in such a mess, but how God was going to fix it in this section here, the Book of Parables. So, yeah, fascinating stuff, and that's why we look at it. But again, as we get to these sections, there are verses here and there in First Enoch that. Well, that kind of contradicts there. And so we have to disqualify it from being in Scripture. But it doesn't mean we throw the whole book out.
- [58:52]
A
No, I think it helps for me, it helps me to get into the heads of the disciples. What were they raised with? What books did they read, so to speak, but also what were they learning from their teachers in the area? I assume most of. Not all of the disciples could read, but at the very least, most people learned by hearing, Right?
- [59:20]
B
Yeah. And it's so telling that when Jesus was at Caesarea Philippi, the people didn't say, what are you talking about? Son of Man? Wasn't that the guy mentioned in Daniel who just sort of sitting up there with the Ancient of Days? No, it's clear here that he's got more to do. It's almost certain that the Essenes who wrote First Enoch, this section of First Enoch drew the idea of the Son of man from Daniel 7 and 1, like a son of man sitting next to the Ancient of Days, who was given an everlasting kingdom. But he doesn't do anything in Daniel. He's just there. And here in First Enoch, he's got a role. He existed before all things. He was hidden by the Lord of Spirits, God the Father, but revealed to the chosen. And then he's coming back. He sits on the throne of righteousness, and he's going to judge not just the humans, as we saw this time. But when we get into August, we'll see the angels, the rebellious angels who send. Yes.
- [60:38]
A
It's just fascinating, isn't it?
- [60:40]
B
It is.
- [60:41]
A
I love reading all of this stuff and trying to understand. You and I, we learned this from Tom Horn and Mike Heiser and many others. Chuck Missler, try to understand in context. Yeah. What do the verses in the Bible say that Support it. That help you understand it. Always, always exegete from all of it. But you know, it's like almost getting a commentary from people who lived at the same time.
- [61:12]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [61:13]
A
That's how I see the Book of Enoch and some.
- [61:14]
B
That's a good way of looking at it. Gives us a window into the understanding of it. Helps us to understand the way Jewish religious leaders and scholars in that intertestamental period, the second Temple period, thought about the scriptures of the Old Testament.
- [61:35]
A
It's why I love the Septuagint so much, because those translators with the Hebrew text that we call the Bible, the Old Testament, they chose certain Greek words and phrases for a reason.
- [61:50]
B
Yeah. And again, just giving us a better understanding and helping to broaden our understanding of the word of God, which is a good thing.
- [62:00]
A
Always a good thing to understand the word of God a little bit better.
- [62:03]
B
Yeah. Couple of questions here. We need to get some more questions here. If you want Sharon and I to answer questions. Sharon and me answer questions.
- [62:16]
A
If you want. Yes, it is Sharon and me.
- [62:18]
B
Yes.
- [62:18]
A
Because it was. If you want us, always take out the one of them and just put the pronoun in there. And if it's.
- [62:26]
B
Yeah, if you want I to answer this question. That doesn't make any sense. Sharon and me to answer questions, you can address those to us either@infoilberthouse.org infoilberthouse.org or you can address those to us through our app. We've got sections in there. Questions for Sharon, questions for Derek. Got one from Melissa who asked, addressed to me. Do any of your books cover the people Jesus said call themselves Jews, but are not? And the answer to that would be no, not yet.
- [63:00]
A
Well, the one coming out in September, Yes.
- [63:02]
B
I don't really address it in that one.
- [63:04]
A
Oh, you don't?
- [63:05]
B
No, no. I'm going to address that along with book two. Book two, yeah. Which will be out in 2027. Because in that book I will endeavor to address many of the, shall we say, issues or.
- [63:26]
A
Misunderstandings.
- [63:27]
B
Misunderstandings. That's a good way of putting it. I'm still looking for a diplomatic word regarding the modern nation of Israel and Jews because there are a couple of verses in the book of Revelation, Revelation 2, verse 9, Revelation 3:9, which are addressed to the churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia. Those are first century churches in what is now Western Turkey. And Jesus identified those churches as saying those who say they are Jews and are not, but lie. There have been some who would, for some reason, which I don't fully Understand? Well, no, I guess I do. They apply those verses to Jews today and say that Jews are not Jews, they are the synagogue of Satan. That is what. That's how those churches were described. They're the synagogue of Satan. Those who say they are Jews and are not, I don't see any reason that those would apply to Jews today.
- [64:45]
A
I'm going to say something that's going to probably caused people's hair stand on end. What if. I think applying it to today is based on the idea that historically we look at the seven churches and those are seven phases of church history. And Church of Philadelphia is considered to be today's
- [65:11]
B
remnant Christian church. The remnant.
- [65:13]
A
Yeah, the remnant. What if that indeed is true and that phrase can be applied to the church today? What if it's referring to those who believe in replacement theology?
- [65:31]
B
Well, I think that. I think that's actually a more accurate application of that. That phrase than Jews.
- [65:45]
A
Because when you say you're a Jew and you're not.
- [65:48]
B
Yeah.
- [65:49]
A
You're saying you replace the Jews right now, I don't know that that's what the Lord means by that. But take that to heart, those of you who believe in replacement theology, because. Slippery slope.
- [66:08]
B
Yeah, I agree. And I think a synagogue of Satan would be a good way to describe that. Because those who believe that Israel is not the real Israel and that Jews are not the real Jews, if we are still here on earth when the Antichrist reveals himself and leads an army to war against Israel, those Christians who believe that Israel is a fake Israel and the Jews are not real Jews will be cheering on the Antichrist.
- [66:41]
A
Absolutely. Absolutely. It is a very dangerous position to take.
- [66:50]
B
Yeah, I agree. And I will deal with that in book two of War of the Watchers, along with a number of other things that we need to deal with. Like, you know, the Khazarian theory, the idea that Jews are. That Ashkenazi Jews are actually Turkic.
- [67:07]
A
Yeah, that. That's also.
- [67:09]
B
It's been debunked by DNA.
- [67:11]
A
Exactly. That's.
- [67:12]
B
There's no serious historian who believes that theory.
- [67:14]
A
No, not at all. And yet it has taken a life of its own.
- [67:18]
B
Yeah. Khazarian mafia. Well, no, I'm sorry, that's just. That's fake history. It's not fake news, it's fake history. So anyway, that. That'll all be in book two. So thank you for your question. But yeah, I will deal with that in some detail in a chapter or two in the forthcoming book for 2027.
- [67:41]
A
Yeah. Mike Spalding has a wonderful Book on replacement theology.
- [67:44]
B
Yeah.
- [67:46]
A
Also called Supersessionism. It's got a whole lot of different.
- [67:51]
B
But the title of the book is Replacement Theology and you can find that it's available at Amazon or wherever books are sold. You can also find the interview that I did with Mike at A View from the Bunker. So if you've got our app, you just do a search for Spalding, which is S, P, A U, L, D, I N G. And that'll bring up all the interviews that I've done with Mike or. Or that we've done with Mike over the years. So you can give that a listen. Also had a recent interview with a young man about his book, Is God a Zionist?
- [68:27]
A
Oh, yes, great book.
- [68:28]
B
That was another discussion of the same subject, basically. And you can tell by the way we're addressing this that we do not believe that God has done with Jews or with Israel.
- [68:44]
A
Not at all.
- [68:45]
B
It's clear if you have a futurist view of prophecy, regardless of whether you're, you know, pre trib, mid trib, pre wrath, whatever. If you've got a futurist view of prophecy, God, the Messiah has not yet returned. And when he does, according to Zechariah, Zechariah 12 and Zechariah 14, the Jews and the house of David are still in the land, which means he can't be done with them. And I don't know how you argue around that unless you're going to argue that Gentiles are actually the true house of David and house of Judah, which doesn't. I just don't see how you get the logic. Ain't logican.
- [69:33]
A
British Israelism goes right there.
- [69:38]
B
Although they argue it's the ten northern tribes are Israel and Zechariah. Specific House of Judah.
- [69:43]
A
I know. Yeah, I know.
- [69:45]
B
So you got to get around that.
- [69:46]
A
Yeah, well, I think that they would say the other two tribes are just somewhere in there anyway.
- [69:51]
B
Yeah.
- [69:52]
A
But bottom line is that's what I think it is. So there you go.
- [69:58]
B
I think you are correct. So anyway, again, thank you for your questions. If you want to address those to us again through the app or infoilberthouse, good news this week on the OG front.
- [70:11]
A
Did you say there were two questions?
- [70:14]
B
The. The. Well, the. The other one is actually rather lengthy and will involve having to read Psalms 94 and 98.
- [70:19]
A
Oh, sorry. Well, I wasn't prepped on that, so I can't.
- [70:23]
B
And that's why I didn't want to throw those.
- [70:24]
A
I appreciate that very much.
- [70:26]
B
And we actually, actually will take Some time to unpack. So we will do that next week.
- [70:30]
A
Yeah. Thank you.
- [70:30]
B
So, Dana, your question, we're holding until next week. Week, but a very good one. Asking about whether certain psalms actually foreshadow prophecies in the book of Revelation.
- [70:44]
A
Yes. So short answer is yes.
- [70:47]
B
Well, yeah, but we need to get in this specific series.
- [70:49]
A
I realize that, but the short answer for now is yes.
- [70:54]
B
Well, the OG's report, the old geezers got a call early this week from the infusion center for the health system that we are part of here in southwest Missouri. And they've got me on the schedule for the first set of intravenous immunoglobulin or IVIG treatments, which, as we told you last week, had been approved by the insurance company. Or rather approved over the objection of the insurance company.
- [71:29]
A
Yes.
- [71:31]
B
So in July, third week of July, I will be going to the infusion center for two days.
- [71:41]
A
July 20th.
- [71:42]
B
Yep. We'll spend a couple of days up in Springfield, four hours each day, getting these donated antibodies dripped into my veins. And going forward, it'll be two days every three weeks thereafter. So again in mid August and then again in early September, and then again, you know, this should reset my immune system so that it stops attacking the nerves and muscles in my extremities, which should result in a reversal of the symptoms. Symptoms that you've seen. I mean, I know when I do video, I get, you know, emails from people saying, well, you look great. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. And I can see, compared especially to the way I looked a year ago in the spring, March and April of a year ago. I've looked at some of the video from back then for Skywatch TV and for my podcast, and I didn't realize at the time how gaunt I was beginning to look. So I have put on some weight from where I was back then, and I've certainly put on some muscle because I've been consistent in working muscles, you know, arms and legs. Just trying to make it so that I can get around a little better, just, you know, arms mainly, so I can hang on to my cane. And now the walker in the middle of the night so that if I start to lose my balance, I can, you know. Correct.
- [73:14]
A
Right.
- [73:15]
B
Which a year ago I wouldn't have been able to do.
- [73:17]
A
No, that's true. But you are continuing, and this is what I'm praying that the. You'll see results very quickly in your hands. Because you're losing muscle in your hands.
- [73:28]
B
Yeah.
- [73:28]
A
And no amount of work in your hands is going to stop this autoimmune disorder from continuing to chew through your muscles.
- [73:37]
B
No.
- [73:38]
A
And the nerves in your hands. So you're getting to where it's difficult for you to hang on to your cane as firmly, even with the upper arm.
- [73:46]
B
Yeah.
- [73:48]
A
Strength.
- [73:48]
B
My neurologist was kind of surprised when he, you know, like, oh, you've got muscle up there. Yeah. But thanks. It's great having the, you know, biceps, triceps, even forearms. But if you can't hang on to stuff that that other muscle doesn't really.
- [74:02]
A
Which is why you decided to use a walker at night.
- [74:05]
B
Yeah. Because balance in the middle of the night, you don't want to fall in the bathroom. There's a lot of sharp corners there.
- [74:11]
A
You don't.
- [74:11]
B
Yeah. Anyway, so that is the good news. It's an answer to prayer, really, because the insurance company's been fighting this since last December, when my neurologist first put in the order for the ivig and he's been advocating for me. It was his appeal that led to the overturn to the ruling by a third party adjudicator.
- [74:34]
A
His appeal and your prayers, all of you out there, you've been praying for this, knowing that it had been turned down twice. And we believe the Lord heard your prayers, heard our prayers, heard all of us praying. And the Lord said in his timing, he's allowing all this. He's allowed all of this for his reasons. We may not see those reasons this side of eternity, but one day we will understand.
- [75:01]
B
Yeah. Yeah. So that's what's going on there. And so we will keep you posted as we get to that treatment. The first set of treatment may not result in any immediate effect, but usually by the second or third treatment, good results are showing. This is the first line treatment for this particular, very rare condition. I think it's like 0.1% of the world manifests with CIDP.
- [75:28]
A
Oh, you're so special.
- [75:32]
B
Can I get something normal, please?
- [75:36]
A
No, you're just not. You're not normal. Sorry, honey. You're just not.
- [75:40]
B
That is a fact.
- [75:42]
A
But thank you for your prayers, everybody. I'm continuing to do my work. I. I end up doing a lot of things outside because I am still able to do a lot of things. I'm maybe almost 74, but I can still do stuff.
- [75:57]
B
The. I will say the yard looks so much better. Last year, as we were really struggling through this and really adjusting to still
- [76:06]
A
with the dogs, it was very difficult for me to get out and do a whole lot of stuff outside. I couldn't Leave the dogs in here alone with you.
- [76:12]
B
Right.
- [76:12]
A
So they had to go out with
- [76:13]
B
me and we had, we've got, around the fence lines, we've got these areas with, you know, decorative rock and, you know, and of course, what they say is the, you know, lifetime guarantee weed block, which lasts about two years.
- [76:27]
A
Yeah, no, you get a lot of various winds and things and eventually you get a nice little layer of soil building up in there.
- [76:35]
B
And so the, yeah, the, the areas around the fence line had gotten very weedy and not very attractive. But with the dogs last year, first of all, you don't want to go out there and start. It's difficult to do anything because when you pulled something out, Glory thought it was a toy.
- [76:52]
A
Oh, she did run with it like it was a flag. And if it happened to be a bush of Spanish needles, which we had a bunch of those, I now know what they look like when they're small. I've been pulling those up.
- [77:05]
B
But Grace would, Grace would have them over.
- [77:09]
A
Yes, she did. And when I would, I would come in looking like a pin cushion.
- [77:13]
B
Yeah.
- [77:14]
A
So anyway, yeah, they're forked on one end so they grab onto anything.
- [77:17]
B
Yeah. Brilliant design.
- [77:19]
A
Yeah.
- [77:19]
B
Brilliant designs on the other end.
- [77:22]
A
Yeah.
- [77:23]
B
But this year the fence line's looking much, much better and it's all Sharon's work because I, I just can't be of any help. So that's one of the reasons we are looking to downsize and so we will, you know, keep you posted on that, that score as well. But all in all, though, I mean, what I've been going through is, is more of a nuisance than anything else. I mean, as long as I keep my balance, it's not a, you know, a life threatening issue. But we do want to remind you that if you go to Gilberthouse.org, there's a banner at the top of the page for Sharon's niece, Sarah Sackleben, who has been fighting stage four cancer and fighting an insurance company that is even more difficult to deal with than ours has been.
- [78:12]
A
Oh, my gosh, I can't believe the things that they deny her on.
- [78:15]
B
Yeah.
- [78:16]
A
And every time she turns around, it's yet another denial that she's having to her doctors and she, she have to go to bat. She works, she's a nurse, but she works at cvs. Yes, cvs. I knew it was one of those big chains. So she's one of the gals that is consulted over various things and she also will give shots, stuff like that. But she hasn't been able to work consistently, which makes it difficult to keep her insurance if she cannot work enough hours and come up with the premium. So everything you can do to pray for her, I know she appreciates it. She is an amazing woman. She and her husband, her husband is a long over the road truck driver. Her son now has gotten his license
- [79:07]
B
just this past week. Lane just got it. Congratulations, Lane.
- [79:10]
A
I know, I'm so proud of him. So proud of him. But Jeremy, Sarah's husband, has been going through stuff too. And, and they farm. So they've got all these animals they take care of. So Sarah is extremely busy.
- [79:24]
B
Yeah. And dealing again with stage four cancer, bowel cancer, as this goes on. So if you click that banner, by the way, if you've got a few extra dollars that you can spare.
- [79:33]
A
Yep.
- [79:34]
B
I mean we appreciate your support, but yeah, Sarah, Jeremy, they can really, really
- [79:41]
A
use, they really, really could use it. So if you've got a few. Yeah, they would appreciate that.
- [79:48]
B
Coming up on the calendar this coming Thursday. Well, actually this afternoon there'll be a dry run of the live stream for the Christian symposium on UFOs and alien abductions. Bruce Collins, hosts of the Bruce Collins show and I will be doing a live test this afternoon, 3:30pm Central Time on Sunday. That's just to make sure we understand which things we need to click and which buttons we need to push to make that all happen. But this is in preparation for this coming Thursday, July 2nd. Guy Malone, Joe Jordan authors, researchers who have really specialized in the spiritual nature of the UFO and especially the alien abduction, an alien contactee phenomenon. That will be 3 to 8pm Central Time on Thursday, July 2. They will be doing a live symposium from Roswell. Jackie Elnor will be joining them. Her husband Bill Aller wrote a book on the UFO phenomenon and it's spiritual aspects. Gosh, more than almost 30 years ago now.
- [80:59]
A
Wow.
- [81:00]
B
Yeah, so, so he was early on like, you know, Chuck Missler and La Marzulli. So they will be hosting this live. Bruce will be streaming it to his YouTube channel. We will be streaming it to our YouTube channel, which is YouTube.comilberthouse YouTube.com Gilbert House and you can participate in the live chat. If you've got questions that you want Joe, Jackie and Guy to address, you can send those through the chat. You, you can email those to us in advance, infoilberthouse.org but again, that is coming up this coming Thursday. And if you're not in Roswell and can't be there in person, then subscribe to our YouTube channel YouTube.comilberthouse click the bell for notifications. You'll get a notification via email or on your mobile device letting you know that, hey, it's getting ready to go in 30 minutes.
- [81:52]
A
If you are listening to this right now on YouTube, just click that bell. Yeah, right this minute.
- [81:56]
B
Absolutely. So again, that's coming up Thursday. And if you got some spare time this afternoon and just want to watch Bruce and I gab for a while as we try to figure out what we're doing.
- [82:06]
A
What am I doing here?
- [82:06]
B
Exactly. That'll be at 3:30pm Central Time today. Then the end of July, we'll be in Ohio for the go there for conference. That is at the Harvest Revival center in Brookville, Ohio, July 24th and 25th.
- [82:24]
A
All the information@gothereforconference.com.
- [82:28]
B
right. Information for in person registration and for streaming video. And then in a couple of weeks, we will be here in our backyard. Well, not virtually speaking. If you're looking at a great big map, you know, it might appear to be close enough.
- [82:48]
A
It's closer than Ohio.
- [82:49]
B
Yeah. Springfield, Ohio. The remnant rising 2.0 conference.
- [82:53]
A
Springfield, Missouri.
- [82:56]
B
Correct. Springfield, Missouri. Not Springfield, Ohio.
- [82:59]
A
There probably is one because I think there's a Springfield every state. No, Springfield, Missouri.
- [83:04]
B
Yeah.
- [83:05]
A
Missouri.
- [83:06]
B
Yeah. The Oasis Hotel and Conference center. And information and registration there@hearthewatchmen.com. but wait, there's more. Save $20 on your in person registration with the promo code Gilbert20.
- [83:20]
A
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [83:21]
B
Gilbert20.
- [83:23]
A
Yeah. On every in person ticket you buy, you can save $20.
- [83:29]
B
Correct.
- [83:29]
A
So if you and several other people are going, save the 20 bucks per ticket. Get enough to tank up your car.
- [83:37]
B
Yeah, yeah. There you go. Or, you know, make a road trip up the UP I44 to the new BUC EE's. Oh, it's only 10 minutes away.
- [83:44]
A
We'll never see Kenny C. If you tell him there's a Buc ee's there.
- [83:47]
B
Kenny's gonna stop at every Buc ee's.
- [83:50]
A
That's his plan.
- [83:50]
B
Yep.
- [83:51]
A
That's why he likes to travel.
- [83:54]
B
So that is. Those are the two conferences we'll be speaking at this year.
- [83:58]
A
I have to say, speaking of that, you know how the FIFA football finals are taking place?
- [84:03]
B
Place? Oh, yeah. Europeans are discovering America is not so awful after all.
- [84:06]
A
They're looking at BUC EE's there. There are videos of them in BUC EE's.
- [84:11]
B
Yeah.
- [84:11]
A
Oh, my gosh. There's some of the best videos.
- [84:14]
B
I think between discovering Things like Buc Ees and Waffle Hut and Waffle House.
- [84:21]
A
Yeah, we Waffle House.
- [84:22]
B
Yeah, Waffle Hut was from the movie.
- [84:25]
A
Yeah, Waffle House.
- [84:28]
B
Yeah. I think they're discovering the Americas pretty great. And hey, they've got air conditioning which with the, the heat wave that's hitting Europe right now and they're not.
- [84:40]
A
They're being told you cannot use your air conditioning.
- [84:43]
B
Yeah, yeah. In fact, in the UK there are people being told that they've got to take their, their mini splits down. Yeah. You cannot have this here. You have to take. Because global warming is a greater threat to your health than the fact that it's 105 degrees Fahrenheit in your apartment. That's nuts.
- [85:03]
A
That really is nuts.
- [85:04]
B
Yeah.
- [85:05]
A
The government's going to get sued over that.
- [85:07]
B
Yeah.
- [85:08]
A
When individuals start dropping like flies telling
- [85:11]
B
people in London, no, you just, just leave your windows open. Like, wait a minute, we've got these Somali immigrants who are. We've got to climb through the window.
- [85:21]
A
They're bringing a machete now. No, we'll bring, be over there soon.
- [85:24]
B
Yeah, that's next year. That's, that's diversity. Isn't that great? Diversity is our strength. Yeah. So anyway, Europeans are learning that hey, America's not so awful and that Americans are not so rude and crude as they thought. As the media perhaps portrays us, we're actually pretty friendly people. And so, yeah, FIFA has been a good thing for the United, the image of the United States around the world. So.
- [85:53]
A
And I think we've all learned from the Japanese fans. Yes, they clean up their area before they leave. And so I've seen other countries fans go, yes, well, well, let's do that too.
- [86:05]
B
Yeah, I mean cleaning up the stadium on the way out now maybe we Americans should start doing that. Yeah, no, no, I'll just kick the cup under the chair of the guy in front of me. Yeah, blame it on him. And oh yeah, the Norwegian fans. Oh, the rowing, when they're doing the rowing. That is so awesome.
- [86:22]
A
That is epic. If you haven't seen the rowing from the Norwegian club, you have to watch it.
- [86:30]
B
The fans of the Norwegians with that chant, that cheer, that is the Viking Row epic. I predict we will see that this winter at Minnesota Vikings football games.
- [86:41]
A
Oh, we'd better.
- [86:42]
B
If the Vikings fans don't do that at this winter, then you guys have totally missed a trick.
- [86:46]
A
You really have.
- [86:47]
B
Yeah. Tonight, guests and of you from the Bunkers, one of the featured speakers at the Go there for conference, Dr. Greg Reed. And boy, I'll tell you, we got into Some stuff we talked about aliens, we talked about artificial intelligence and how that is being used as a portal to contact the spirit realm, which we've discussed. In fact, we wrote about that in the Gates of Hell. But also how special needs children, like kids with down syndrome are being used by occultists for necromancy rituals because it's believed that they've got special connections to the spirit realm.
- [87:28]
A
That is. I just have no words when you first told me about that.
- [87:34]
B
Yeah. So I really encourage you to listen or watch. The program will be released tonight at 7:00pm Central Time. That's UTC minus 5.
- [87:43]
A
And download the app right now because that sort of topic tends not to be very popular with certain algorithms. Yeah, we'll just put it that way.
- [87:54]
B
Yeah. In fact, his is the last program
- [87:56]
A
I got yanked off the interwebs Gilbert House.org app. Yeah, it's free. Yep, free download.
- [88:04]
B
And in case you've been missing it, we've been releasing Throwback Thursday episodes of PID Radio way back Wednesday episodes of A View from the Bunker. And so those are going back and drawing from our archives from the last 21 years. Things that you may have missed the first time around. Or maybe you didn't know who we were 20 years ago.
- [88:26]
A
We've been doing this for a long time, 21 plus years. Derek and I also, we both have sub stacks. So mine is Sharon K. Gilbert.substack.com Sharon Letter K. Gilbert.
- [88:41]
B
Substack.com and gilberthouse.substack.com is the other.
- [88:46]
A
There you go.
- [88:47]
B
And between those two you're basically getting all kinds of free stuff. Free fiction, free non fiction.
- [88:53]
A
I just added a new section on mine that's going to be just commentary on the news and you know, tech and science and it's just, it's. It's a little section called the Armored Sheep.
- [89:04]
B
Sweet. So make sure, make sure you're visiting those. Substack has really become a very important app. Very important because there's a lot of really good long form content. But they're also now adding and making it very easy to host audio and video content. So we're linking to all of our content there and you know, releasing a lot of our written work there as well for free. I think we've released now through Gilberthouse.substack.com, the equivalent of eight full books for free over the last year and a half.
- [89:48]
A
Well, I AM on chapter 19, I think is just what I released of Blood Lies from the Red Wing Saga. So I am releasing the Red Wing Saga books for free, too.
- [89:57]
B
Yeah. Ways to Go to.
- [89:59]
A
Ways to Go. There are eight books out so far. Nine is about halfway done. I. We strongly encourage you to follow many other writers. I think Mike Spalding has a substance.
- [90:12]
B
He does.
- [90:13]
A
Yeah. Boy, there are a lot of great Joy Anderson. Yeah. A lot of great writers.
- [90:18]
B
And she's starting to release excerpts from her new book, From Eden to AI.
- [90:22]
A
Oh.
- [90:23]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [90:25]
A
We'll have to see if it's okay with Defender if you start to release some of the stuff. Teasing your new book.
- [90:34]
B
I'm going to wait till the book is actually out. But yeah, right now we're going through our book veneration.
- [90:38]
A
Yeah.
- [90:39]
B
But I'll ask Penny at Defendant.
- [90:41]
A
They're the publishers, so we wouldn't do it.
- [90:43]
B
Yeah. Tom Horn used to do that all the time. He did, but he was the publisher, so, you know.
- [90:47]
A
Yeah, I know.
- [90:48]
B
He. His company has rules. Yeah. Anyway, so. Well, close with a word of prayer.
- [90:53]
A
Let's do.
- [90:54]
B
Father, thank you for bringing us together again and Lord, for helping us to parse through the words written 2,000 years ago, just before your arrival here as a fully human man, and how you took those teachings and then applied them to yourself. Lord, again we ask for the wisdom and the discernment to take from this work the book of first Enoch, that which is valid. To know those things that are allegorical or contradictory. But, Lord, to understand how it helped to inform the worldview and the theology of the apostles, those who wrote the books and the letters that comprise the New Testament. Father, we pray as we look around the world today for peace. We pray for the peace of Jerusalem, for the safety of our friends in Israel. We pray for peace between Ukraine and Russia. We pray for a settlement in the Persian Gulf that would lead the people of Iran free of the theocratic grip of that cult of Allah. Father, we pray for your spirit to guide us and grant us wisdom and discernment in all things and the courage to speak when the opportunities present to share the hope that we have in you with gentleness and respect. Lord, may we not be afraid to share with our families, our friends, our co workers and colleagues. Father, eternity is a long time and the anxiety we may feel at speaking and sharing our hope will last but a few seconds or moments. May we prioritize the love that we have for those near us above whatever embarrassment we might feel. We ask for that courage, Father, and knowing that any negative reaction is directed not at us, but at you. Lord, we pray for your blessing. We thank you, Father, for your sacrifice on our behalf, which you did while we were yet in our sins. Father, may we honor you this day as worthy ambassadors for you, our king. And we ask this in Jesus name. Amen.
- [94:15]
A
Amen.
- [94:17]
B
Until next time. I'm Derek Gilbert.
- [94:19]
A
I'm Sharon Gilbert. Thank you for being here with us today. We love all of you so very much. Bye bye, everybody.
- [94:27]
B
Thank you for joining us. We post a new Bible study each Sunday morning. Subscribe to the podcast and subscribe explore the archives online@gilberthouse.org.