The Quaking of Heaven

Summary

GILBERT HOUSE FELLOWSHIP
Episode: The Quaking of Heaven
Date: May 31, 2026
Hosts: Derek and Sharon Gilbert

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Episode Overview

This episode of the Gilbert House Fellowship finds Derek and Sharon Gilbert diving deep into 1 Enoch, focusing especially on the prophetic Book of Parables/Similitudes (chapters 37–71). Their verse-by-verse study is rich with context about the origins, authorship, and relevance of 1 Enoch for understanding New Testament theology, and for unraveling apocalyptic prophecy—especially as it relates to the “quaking” of both heaven and earth. Intertwined with theological discussion are their signature joyful banter, updates from their life in the Missouri Ozarks, and thoughts on current cultural shifts, disclosure, and spiritual warfare.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Life Updates & Welcoming Listeners

[00:14–04:06]

• The episode opens with Ozarks anecdotes: birds, stray cats (“Porsche” the porch cat and kittens), and their dogs Grace and Glory as local mouser-heroes.
• As always, Derek and Sharon’s warmth and humor welcomes both regulars and newcomers.
• Notable Moment: Sharon advertises free kittens for nearby listeners.

2. Why Study 1 Enoch? Its Value & Limitations

[04:06–11:53]

• 1 Enoch is not canonical, due to internal inconsistencies. Yet, it's highly valued by the apostles, early church, and theologians (e.g., Tertullian).
• Key Insight: Many New Testament doctrines—like women covering their heads “because of the angels” and the vivid descriptions of hell—emerge more clearly from 1 Enoch than from the Old Testament itself.
• Quote – Derek [05:18]:
  “There are doctrines in the New Testament that come right out of 1 Enoch that are not in any prior Jewish writing... For example, when Paul writes that women in church should cover their heads because of the angels, where does that come from in the Old Testament? Well, it doesn't. But it is explicit in the first 36 chapters of 1 Enoch...”
• The late Dr. Michael Heiser’s two-volume commentary is recommended for deeper dives.

3. The Book of Parables: Messianic Figure & Historical Setting

[07:42–14:12]

• Focus shifts to studying the “Book of Parables/Similitudes” (1 Enoch 37–71)—a text completed just before, or concurrent with, the birth of Jesus and John the Baptist.
• Key Insight: The “Son of Man” as a messianic title occurs first here, not in any earlier Jewish literature.
• The Essene community’s role as a prophetic groundwork for Gospel teaching is discussed.
• Essenes in the north differed from those at Qumran (family vs. celibate men, doctrine of repentance), possibly influencing John the Baptist and Jesus.

4. The Prophetic Section: Already/Not Yet and Historical Layers

[14:13–29:48]

• The group shifts between historical and future (eschatological) readings of 1 Enoch. They discuss the Parthian invasion of Judea, the mistaken Essene hope in Herod as the “Son of Man,” and possible end-times parallels.
• Quote – Sharon [26:28]:
  “That’s my point. I think this is ‘already, but not yet.’ It was fulfilled in the past, but the big-time future fulfillment is yet to occur.”
• Debate: Is the text recalling past events (the Parthian occupation) or forecasting the apocalyptic future (Armageddon, restoration of Israel, global earthquakes)?

5. Theological Banter: The Value of Disagreement

[32:15–33:00]

• Derek and Sharon openly “sharpen” one another’s thinking, showing the value of dialog in scriptural study.
• Quote – Sharon [32:15]:
  “Derek and I talk like this all the time... there’s this tiny bit of spice where I see it one way and he sees it another way. And I love that because... it helps to sharpen my thinking.”

6. Deep Dive: Enoch’s Parables (Chapters 57–60)

[33:01–74:55]

• Multiple translations are compared (Hermeneia, R.H. Charles, James Charlesworth, Jay Winter), with detailed, sometimes humorous, commentary on variant readings.
• 1 Enoch 57:
  • Describes hosts, chariots, earthquakes—possibly eschatological. Is this referring to past (Parthians/Herod) or an ultimate, end-times shaking?
• 1 Enoch 58–59:
  • Visions of light and darkness, the blessed destiny of the righteous/elect, cosmic upheaval, and heavenly mysteries.
• Chaos Monsters (Leviathan & Behemoth):
  • 1 Enoch 60 [62:44]: Sharon reads about the female sea monster (Leviathan) and male land monster (Behemoth) being separated for the Day of the Lord, sparking discussion about ancient Near Eastern chaos mythology.
  • Quote – Derek [64:40]:
    “There’s a much longer tradition in the ancient Near East of a chaos dragon from the sea—Leviathan, Tiamat, [etc.]...”
• Cosmic Agency:
  • Lightning, thunder, hail, and other “natural phenomena” are described as serving God’s will—sometimes as sentient angelic beings.
  • Quote – Sharon [47:14]:
    “If you look at the actual Hebrew word behind lightning or thunder, it seems to imply a sentient being, not just what we had last night here on the ridge...”
• Festival Timing and Significance:
  • The timestamp “year 500... 14th day of the 7th month” is unpacked as a reference to Sukkot (Feast of Tabernacles), which they connect to unfulfilled prophetic events.
• Quote – Derek [77:36]:
  “Tabernacles was the big festival in the calendar... By the end of seven days, you had 70 [bulls]... representing the gods of all the nations... No other festival required that... So the fact that it’s here in 1 Enoch, connected to the vision of Noah and what he foresaw, is really significant.”

7. On Reading Scripture Aloud

[74:57–80:23]

• Derek and Sharon share that reading Scripture aloud (“stopping and saying, hey, wait a minute, what does that mean?”) has triggered many insights and research revelations through the years.
• Families are encouraged to read Scripture together out loud for deeper discovery.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On The Value of Enoch:
“Many doctrines in the New Testament come right out of 1 Enoch that are not in any prior Jewish writing... For example, when Paul writes that women... should cover their heads because of the angels, where does that come from in the Old Testament? Well, it doesn’t. But it is explicit in the first 36 chapters of Enoch...”
— Derek [05:18]

On Prophetic Layers:
“That’s my point. I think this is ‘already, but not yet.’ It was fulfilled in the past, but the big-time future fulfillment is yet to occur.”
— Sharon [26:28]

On Study Method:
“Derek and I talk like this all the time... there’s this tiny bit of spice where I see it one way and he sees it another way... it helps to sharpen my thinking.”
— Sharon [32:15]

On Apocalyptic Natural Phenomena:
“If you look at the actual Hebrew word behind lightning or thunder, it seems to imply a sentient being, not just what we had last night here on the ridge.”
— Sharon [47:14]

On Tabernacles Symbolism:
“Tabernacles was the big festival... and by the end of seven days, you had 70 that had been slaughtered, representing the gods of all the nations...”
— Derek [77:36]

On The UFO/Disclosure Issue:
“Even if actual ETs exist and we don’t believe that’s the case, it does not change our status as God’s image bearers.”
— Derek [97:01]

On Reading Scripture Aloud:
“When you read alone, silently, it’s easy to skip over things instead of stopping and saying, hey, wait a minute, what does that mean?”
— Derek [75:32]

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Timestamps for Significant Segments

• 00:14–04:06: Ozarks life update; stray cats and animals
• 04:06–11:53: Why 1 Enoch matters, its influence on New Testament theology
• 14:13–29:48: The historical and prophetic ‘already/not yet’ dynamic of 1 Enoch
• 33:01–74:55: Verse-by-verse study of 1 Enoch 57–60, discussion of chaos monsters, angelic agency in weather, and the meaning of prophetic time stamps
• 74:57–80:23: The value of reading Scripture out loud
• 81:11–84:09: Listener question: futurism vs. preterism in eschatology (detailed, timestamped apologetic answers)
• 97:01–102:10: Reflections on upcoming events, the UFO disclosure movement, and why ETs don’t undermine the gospel
• 102:10–104:50: Upcoming events, travel, and answering listeners’ questions
• 104:50–End: Closing prayer, reminders, and signature sign-off

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Tone and Style

Joyful, inquisitive, grounded in conservative Christian theology, with respectful dialogue and humor. Frequent asides and friendly banter make complex content approachable.

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For Further Exploration

• Dr. Michael Heiser’s two-volume Enoch commentary (available via SkyWatch TV Store)
• Reading multiple translations of 1 Enoch for comparative study (Hermeneia, Charles, Charlesworth, Jay Winter)
• Unraveling Revelation (YouTube/website), the Gilbert’s companion show with 300+ episodes on prophecy

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This summary aims to guide both newcomers and long-time listeners through the depth and warmth of Derek & Sharon’s wide-ranging Bible study—particularly for those wanting to better understand the significance of 1 Enoch, prophetic patterns, and their relevance to contemporary Christian faith and practice.

Transcript

[A]

From the beautiful Missouri Ozarks, greetings and welcome to the Gilbert House fellowship for Sunday, May 31, 2026. I'm Derek Gilbert.

[B]

I am Sharon Gilbert. I'm Sharon Gilbert. If I only knew my name. I just finished checking. Chewing some toast. It's great toast. It's rye toast with honey.

[A]

Ooh.

[B]

Yeah, I know. It's really good. And by the way, we are now cats on the ridge.

[A]

Oh, yeah. The birds that have been nesting on the front porch are a little bit apprehensive.

[B]

Well, their nest is now gone, and we do not think they tore it down. It's the second time the nest has been torn down.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. The peewees out there, the eastern peewees that done such a great job cleaning up the moth problem we had here the first couple years.

[B]

Seriously. We had a bunch of peewees come in that second year, and suddenly those bagworm moths, those white moths, they were gone.

[A]

Yeah. Wasn't that a song by the mamas and the papas? All the. All the moths are gone.

[B]

Yes. Yeah, it is a song. By the way, in case you're wondering what we're talking about. Living out in the country. If you live out in the country, you're gonna. You're gonna relate to this because there's a tendency to have strange animals suddenly appear on your property. Yes, it's sadly an animal that has been dumped unwanted or whatever. We had a pregnant cat apparently dumped here a few weeks ago, and now there are kittens out in the deck. I think she had the litter underneath our front porch.

[A]

I didn't see the cat for the first time until yesterday. By the way, Sharon is very cleverly named the porch cat Porsche, which perfect name.

[B]

Haven't named the three kittens yet. And no, we cannot bring them inside. We would love to, but a couple of reasons. One is just mobility issues for Derek,

[A]

things suddenly kittens underfoot would be.

[B]

Yeah, it would be difficult. But he's also highly allergic to them.

[A]

Yeah, cats make me sneeze.

[B]

Mom is a beautiful tortoise shell.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Beautiful cat. And at least two of the kittens appear to be tortoiseshell as well. One of them looks like it's more of a. Oh, gosh, tabby coat. Trying to figure out what's on my screen. Possibly.

[C]

Probably.

[B]

So if you would like to have a kitten and you live in the area, you know, we're feeding them and putting water out, and they have comfortable chairs that are sitting out on our porch with a couple of pillows out there. Mama just lounges out there.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. She's now. I saw her yesterday afternoon hop over the fence and out to the area outside the fence.

[B]

I think she mouses out there.

[A]

Yeah. Because we've got plenty of meadow mice here. Voles. The vole population is quite high. Yeah.

[B]

The dogs, Grace and Glory.

[A]

Yeah, Grace and Glory had kept them down. We. When they dared venture inside the fence. There was one period of a week where the two of them caught six. I'd look out there in the evening and then have to come get you. Sharon, you need to get up. Gloria's playing with another one.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. They didn't consume them, they just killed them.

[A]

Yeah. It's like, oh, this is great. Another new toy.

[B]

She likes to toss them up in the air.

[A]

Yeah. The poor mice.

[B]

Yeah. So she's doing that with lizards down in Florida now. The two of them are having a bl. So, anyway, welcome to our home, everybody. We're delighted you are here. If you are brand new to the Gilbert House Bible Study. On Sundays, the last Sunday of every month, we study the book of First Enoch. Yeah, the first Sunday we have communion and we study the Bible for the other Sundays. But Last Sunday has been dedicated to this for a while now.

[A]

And we understand that first Enoch is not in the Bible and there are reasons for it. We've gone into some of those and we will get to some of those as we. More of those as we get further in. There are some internal inconsistencies which disqualify it as Scripture.

[B]

But the late Dr. Michael Heiser wrote

[C]

a companion guide to one Enoch because he felt that there was value in it.

[A]

Right? And it was, and rightly so, because it was held in high regard by the apostles and by the early church. There was some disagreement in the early church as to whether it should be scripture or not. But there were some very well respected early church theologians, like Tertullian, very notably, who argued that it should be. It was known to the Jews and. Well, clearly, because the apostles were all Jews. Jude directly quotes from 1 Enoch 1, 9 Jude, verses 14 and 15. Direct quote. And as we have mentioned, there are doctrines in the New Testament that come right out of one Enoch that are not in any prior Jewish writing. In other words, not in the Old Testament. For example, when Paul writes that women in church should cover their heads because of the angels, where does that come from in the Old Testament? Well, it doesn't. But it is explicit in the first 36 chapters of 1 Enoch that the sin of the watchers who descended to Mount Hermon was that they saw women, desired them. And there was a belief in the first century A.D. that. And I know this sounds weird, but. Okay, we're going back 2,000 years now that a woman's hair was part of her reproductive system. So going with your head uncovered was essentially considered indecent.

[B]

Yeah. Tempting to the fallen angels.

[A]

Tempting to the fallen angels.

[B]

Right, the drapes here.

[A]

Yeah. So maybe it's, you know, a certain style of dress in church today might be considered okay. If you're going out on a date, but perhaps not when you're in a church setting on Sunday morning. And that's again, that's one of those things. Another the idea of an underworld place of fiery torment for people who rejected Jesus during this life. There is no reference to an underworld hell. I mean, Sheol is mentioned in the Old Testament, but it's not described as a place where the worm never turns and the fire is never quenched.

[B]

Right.

[A]

As Jesus described Gehenna. So those are just a couple of examples.

[B]

Yeah, I was going to say you could spend an hour talking about that.

[A]

Just talking about that.

[B]

If you're interested, you know, in that.

[A]

Get Mike Heiser's two volume Companions.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

You can get that through Skywatch TV store.

[A]

There is a link in the notes below this study. In fact, I put it below every week's study just in case you're looking on a week where we're not studying Enoch. But it catches your eye and think, well, that would be interesting to do a deeper dive. Well, again, the two volume companion to the Book of Enoch by Dr. Michael Heiser is available at a special price through the Skywatch TV store. And we're happy to, you know, point you in that direction.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

If you want to do a deeper dive. So that is what we're digging into again today as we are continuing through the section called the Book of Parables or the Book of Similitudes, if you want to get fancy. Chapters 37 to 71, which is the prophetic section. And I think the most important aspect of this section and one of the biggest reasons for looking at the book of first Enoch at all is because the references to a coming Messianic figure called the Son of Man, and the fact that that is the first place in any Jewish writing where that phrase, the Son of Man is used as a title for a Messianic character.

[B]

You are going to be recording a series of very short videos beginning soon. Five things you need to know about this or that. And I think five things you need to know about the book of parables or the Book of Enoch or whatever. Yeah. And there could be a whole series on that.

[A]

Yeah, you're right.

[B]

Yeah. These parables were written 2nd century, 1st

[A]

century BC, late 1st century BC. This particular section was the last of the five sections of the Book of First Enoch to be completed. And scholars now believe it was completed broadly in the last quarter of the first century B.C. meaning between 25 B.C. and 0.

[B]

About the time Jesus was born.

[A]

Yes. But more specifically there are some who put it right around the time of the death of Herod the Great, which would mean just about the time John the Baptist and Jesus of Nazareth were being born. And for John, which we discussed couple of months ago, taking the. There's a phrase in 1st Enoch 50, a verse or two that talk about God having mercy on the others, meaning people outside the community of the Essenes who considered themselves to be especially

[B]

set apart.

[A]

Set apart. Good way of putting it. And that being the basis of John's baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins, which was totally radical for not just the Essenes, but for the Pharisees and the scribes and Levites, which is why they sent a delegation from Jerusalem to where John was baptizing north of the Sea of Galilee to ask him, who gave you the authority to do well, who are you? Why are you doing this? But it came right out of first Enoch. And so like 30 years after this was written, John is preaching a doctrine right out of this book. And then Jesus comes along and is asking people, so who do people say the Son of Man is? And they knew, they were arguing, some say Elijah, some say Jeremiah, some say John the Baptist, because by that time John had been beheaded. But it's clear that there was. There's a lot of meat in First Enoch. And those who say, well, it's not in the Bible, we should ignore it, are missing out on some of the teachings that inform the New Testament.

[B]

I agree. I think it's very possible that the Holy Spirit was inspiring and giving visions to the Essene community.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Whether or not he was, was directly working through their handwriting to as. As the way we would consider canon the, the traditional inspired scripture of, of what we call the Bible, something was being told. The Lord was showing that his incarnation was coming very, very soon.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And for that reason I alone, I think we need to pay attention to these, these parables.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I make that case in the forthcoming book War of the Watchers, that the silent centuries, so called, between Malachi and Matthew, were not Silent at all. They were not that the Essenes were being prepared for this book, which then. Which was written, according to scholars, and this is recent research, just the last 20 years or so near the town of Magdala, which is the northwest shore of the Sea of Galilee. And that community there on the side of the mountain, Mount Arbel, where you got a bunch of basically, monks living in the caves on the front face of this vertical slope. We had to get into their caves with ladder ropes, rope ladders.

[B]

But not only monks, they had families out there. They were unusual for what we think of the Essenes.

[A]

Right. And the reason scholars believe that was an Essene community was because they had a very high proportion of. What do they call the ritual baths, the mikvot.

[B]

Oh, yes.

[A]

For the community, instead of having one. It's like almost every cave had one because they had these rituals that they had to perform for purification.

[B]

You see that at Qumran as well.

[A]

Yes, exactly. And contrary to what people might think, because we've always heard of the Essenes at Qumran, the Qumran community was established later. They split off from the Essenes in the north around the year 100 BC

[B]

and Qumran did not allow families. It was just men.

[A]

Exactly. So this section of the Book of first Enoch was written in the north. No copy of this section, the Book of Parables, was ever found at Qumran. And the doctrine of, well, repentance and then being forgiven, well, that was just right out for the Qumran Essenes. They would not have accepted that at all. It's like, no, no, no. You got to go through all of our rituals. Whereas in the north, there was this different thing, and John was teaching in the north. Jesus based his ministry in the north. It's like God was using the Essenes to prepare the ground for the Gospel message.

[B]

Amen to that. And it explains how Mary Magdalene got in there. Yes, she's from Magdala.

[A]

From Magdala. So some really interesting things that were developing in the north and that whole period of history between the return of the exiles in the 5th century BC Artaxerxes saying, okay, Nehemiah, go rebuild the wall. That was around 440, according to Sir Robert Anderson, first of Nisan, 445 B.C. but when the exiles got back, they found that there were still priests in Jerusalem, a remnant. And they were not welcome to the idea that, hey, now's the time to build the temple prophesied by Ezekiel. So they went off to the north, and that's what became The Essene community.

[B]

So Robert Anderson was part of the whole investigation into Jack the Ripper. Yeah, I know it sounds crazy, but we've got Sir Charles Warren, who discovered Casarantar on top of Mount Hermon, and the stone, which references the. The oath sworn by the Watchers. And then Sir Robert Anderson, who wrote this book you really need to have in your library, called the Coming Prince. And also Daniel in the critics did. He wrote both of those. He was an amazing Christian man who also happened to be part of the police department, the metropolitan police.

[C]

But the Coming Prince is what you

[B]

were talking about, his calculation of when Christ would have returned and when he

[C]

not returned, but when he was here the first time and he was cut off interpreting the timeline of Daniel.

[B]

What I also think is Sir Robert Anderson, who I believe is with the Lord. I think he would have loved these texts because a lot of the.

[C]

The opinions and the information around that settlement, that's recent, as Derek said, he

[B]

would have loved that research.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah. As an investigator. Well, it's, you know, like Carl Gallups with what he does with scripture today. You take a police investigator and their gift for gifts, for talent, talent, pattern recognition, and apply it to scripture and you get the Coming Prince Daniel in the critic stand or any of Carl's books.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Which are just astonishing.

[B]

We should ask Carl if he's ever read Anderson's books.

[A]

Yeah, it'd be interesting to know. Yeah, he would relate.

[B]

He would relate. Well, we need to get started.

[A]

Yeah, let's dive in with a word of prayer. We're almost at 20 minutes and we haven't even.

[B]

I know. Blather, blather, blather.

[A]

Father, thank you for bringing us together. And Lord, we pray as we study that you would grant us wisdom and discernment. Yes, we know the book that we're studying today is not part of the canon of Scripture, but. But it is one of the most important extra biblical texts known. Well, to the apostles, to Jews of the time of Jesus, to the early church. And so, Lord, we pray as we study that you will help us to take from it those things which help us to better understand your word. Father, again, we just ask for wisdom in this and in all things. And we ask it in Jesus name. Amen.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

So as we study, we've got several translations open. I've got the Hermania translation, which is what I'll be reading from. That's a modern translation by George W.E. nickelsberg and James Vanderkamp, who are scholars of Enochian literature and I've also got the RH Charles and the James Charlesworth, which is another modern translation.

[B]

I also have the Jay Winter open as well as the R.H. charles. So I've got a couple over here.

[A]

We'll triangulate or quadrangulate between the four translations. We will do our best to triangulate. The one thing we do need to note is that the chapter divisions, chapter and verse divisions that were developed by R.H. charles. And there's an older translation actually by another fellow going back to 1815, 1816, which is available online and that's also linked in the notes below this study, whether you're watching or listening. And I think he developed this. And I'm blanking on the name of the fellow who did the 19th century translation. I think he developed the chapter and verse numbering system, which has been followed by everybody except for Jay Winter.

[B]

Jay Winter. Justin went out on his own.

[A]

Yeah. So if you're reading the RH Charles or any of the others, except for Jay Winter, this would be chapter 57. And in Jay Winter, it's.

[B]

It's. I think it's 51 verse beginning in verse 79. And the noise of the wet. No, sorry, 78 maybe. Then it came to pass that I saw another host of wagons or chariots.

[A]

Right, yeah. And by the way, the Jay Winter translation is available for free online as a PDF and that is also linked in our notes.

[B]

And that's what I'm reading from.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. Chapter 57. This follows 56, by the way, which was essentially a retelling of the invasion of Judea by the Parthians around the year 40 B.C. after that, I saw another host of chariots and people riding in them, and they came upon the winds from the east and the west toward the south, and the noise of the rumbling of their chariots was heard.

[B]

Okay, read that again.

[A]

After that, I saw another host of chariots or wagons and people riding in them, and they came upon the winds from the east and the west toward the south.

[B]

Okay. Came upon. Almost sounds like they discovered them, but I think they're riding on the winds.

[C]

Well, yeah, yeah, it.

[B]

In winter it says, and coming on the winds from the east.

[C]

I just want to make sure that

[B]

it wasn't an entirely different meaning.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[C]

Than what was here.

[A]

No, no, no, Yeah, I think you're right. They came on the winds of the east and the west toward the south, and the noise of the rumbling of their chariots was heard. When this commission commotion took place, the holy ones took note from heaven, the Holy ones is a phrase often used in parallel with watchers. Understand that there are faithful loyalists. Watchers, as well as those who rebelled back in Genesis, Chapter six.

[C]

Just a little context on here. Backing up. This is prophetic, this section.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I think because. Backing up, you see, and in those days, the angels. This is backing up several verses. The angels shall return and hurl themselves to the east. This is the winter version upon the Parthians and Medes. Prophetic for the time, but not necessarily. It could be an already, but.

[B]

But not yet. Which I'm saying.

[C]

Let me just keep reading. And they shall stir up the king so that a spirit of unrest shall come upon them. And they shall rouse them from their thrones, that they may break forth as lions from their lairs and as hungry wolves from their flocks. And they shall go up and tread underfoot the land of his elect ones. But the cry of the righteous now shall be a hindrance to their horses. And they shall begin to fight among themselves. And their right hand shall be strong against themselves. Remember, this is written in the first century bc And a man shall know

[A]

his brother in the Rh. Charles said. And the. The other.

[B]

Right.

[C]

I'm just backing up from where we just started.

[A]

I'm sorry, I was confused.

[C]

I wanted to get context for all of this.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And they shall begin to fight amongst themselves. And their right hand shall be strong against themselves. And a man shall not know his brother, nor a son, his father, nor his mother, till there be no number of the corpses through.

[B]

Through their slaughter. And their punishment be not in vain. In those days, Sheol shall open its jaws and they shall be swallowed up therein. Their destruction shall be at an end. Sheol shall devour the sinners in the presence of the elect. And then is when we start today.

[A]

Right, Right. This basically describes the end of the Parthian occupation of Judea, given that this section of First Enoch was written after the invasion by the Parthians in the year 40 BC. Herod the Great, who'd been the governor of Galilee, fled when the Parthians invaded. He fled to Rome, presented himself to Caesar Augustus, who had been a friend of his. He'd been raised with Octavian Caesar Augustus and was named king of Judea. And then he was sent back to Judea with a Roman army and the backing of Mark Antony's Roman legions from Syria.

[B]

But at this point of writing it, this would have already happened.

[A]

Exactly. That's what I'm saying. This is describing that, but it's future tense. Yeah, but that.

[B]

That's why I'm saying possibly this isn't already, but not yet.

[C]

It's something that they knew had happened.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And yet, because it's future tense, it shall come to pass. Shale shall open its jaws, the destruction shall be at an end. And then it. Then it gets into. And it shall come to pass after this, that I saw a host of wagons or chariots and men riding thereon and coming on the winds from the east and from the west to the south. This is really interesting, this idea, going back to the first verse we read in this week's study. And I apologize if you're confused, if you're just listening. We highly recommend finding several of the translations and reading along as we do this. Sounds to me like these chariots are not necessarily on the ground, Coming on the winds from the east. And you said, came upon the winds.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So I don't know if these are. Because it's describing people or men, is what it says in the winter version, driving these chariots, if they are on the ground, then they're in trouble. Because then you get to the next verse. And the noise of their wagons was heard when this turmoil took place. The holy ones from heaven are marked on it. And the pillars of the earth were removed from their place.

[A]

Sorry, I'm getting lost here. Okay, okay, I see. Okay. Back 57. Yeah. And in fact, in the Hermonia translation, the Nicholsburg Vanderkam translation, they preface beginning 56, verse 5. In those days, the angels will assemble themselves. And they. They headline that as the scenario of the end time continued. Subhead, the eschatological war.

[B]

That's my point. I think this is already, but not yet. It was fulfilled in the past, but the big time future fulfillment is yet to occur.

[A]

Yeah. So the reason you see my brows furrowed in the. I know, because I'm having to change my world. My whole worldview here is being changed. But you're right, it is. And already. But not yet. Because I was looking at the Parthians and Medes and thinking, okay, they were driven out by Herod the Great.

[B]

I get it. But future tense. And in those days and things like that, this is future.

[A]

Right. But this, again, this being written after these events, this is why when Herod came back with the army from Rome and drove out the Parthians and Medes, there was a time, or for a period of time, the Essenes thought that Herod was the son of man. They thought he was the Messiah.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And then he started getting stabby with his relatives.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And just it's like, wait a minute, that's. That's not. That's not him.

[B]

That's not how this behaves.

[A]

So. Yeah, okay, and already. But not yet. But then, interestingly, looking at a future day when the Parthians and Medes would be an end times enemy, of course Ezekiel would have already written his Gog and Magog prophecy, and they were clearly familiar with that because when they returned, they wanted The Ezekiel chapter 40 and 41 Temple built.

[B]

Right. So if we are looking at activity in the heavens, not necessarily chariots on the ground on earth, it seems like I said, if they're on the earth, they're in trouble because the pillars of the earth were moved.

[A]

Okay, yeah. This.

[B]

Massive earthquakes.

[A]

And this would be consistent with apocalyptic prophecies where the city of my righteous ones will be a hindrance to their horses. They will begin to make war among themselves. Consistent with Zechariah 12 Jerusalem being a block of staggering, a cup of staggering to the nations.

[B]

And the description of this massive slaughter.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, points for you. Ah, yeah. So I'm glad you backed up and took another run at this because this is. Yeah. Significant. Now, chapter 57 begins with the. The subtitle A Second Host Travels to Jerusalem. But R.H. charles headlines it. The return from the Dispersion.

[B]

Talking about I maybe, but I don't think so.

[A]

So let's. Let's read 57 now.

[B]

Seems to be future from here. Yeah, we haven't seen this fulfillment yet.

[A]

No, it would have been future for them though. And this could be pointing to like 1948.

[B]

No, no, I think it's important that you take a look at verse two. Read verse two.

[A]

Yeah, well, let me read verse one and we'll get to that. After that I saw another host of chariots and people riding in them, and they came.

[B]

It says men here, so it might be people, but the original word might actually refer to something that looks like a man. Don't know if it's actually. Anyway, go ahead. Sorry.

[A]

And the noise of the rumbling of their chariots was heard when this commotion took place. The holy ones took note from heaven and the pillars of the earth were shaken from their bases.

[B]

That's a massive global earthquake.

[A]

1948.

[B]

Don't think that was a massive global earthquake. I don't think this is the full fulminant of that because. Just keep reading and you'll see what I mean.

[A]

It was heard from one end of the heaven to the other in one moment. And they all fell down and worshiped the Lord of spirits. This is the end of the second parable.

[B]

They. If we're talking about humans, that has not yet happened.

[A]

It was heard from one end of the heaven to the other. And they. And I think the they refers back to the holy ones.

[B]

Yep. I see in heaven we can disagree on this because I don't think this has been fulfilled.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Because we get apocalyptic language, so you

[B]

can't suddenly back up to 1948.

[A]

Well, I'm going to hold that open as a possibility.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because I think that that was a shaking, at least in the heavenlies, in that it was fulfilling pillars of the earth. Yeah, Yeah, great. Earthquake. Perhaps

[C]

there's an earthquake coming that is

[B]

going to be worldwide.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

But how does that then correspond to people riding in their chariots,

[C]

everybody coming against Jerusalem? It's Armageddon.

[A]

Well, okay, that's true. Yeah. All right. We'll hold that open as another possibility.

[B]

Derek and I talk like this all the time. You know, we love each other dearly. We share our brain practically, but every once in a while, there's this tiny

[C]

little bit of spice where I see it one way and he sees it's another way. And I love that because it's having someone in the household that I can discuss these things with, and we can either absolutely help each other confirm an idea or sharpen an idea. And that's where those little, little bits of spice come in. It helps to sharpen my thinking.

[B]

And it.

[C]

Eventually we. We come to a conclusion. You're still furrowing your brow.

[A]

Yeah, I'm looking at the other. The. The Charles Worth and the Charles translations, which are very similar to the Nicholsburg. Well, thanks to Sharon running out to the barn to collect the two companions to the Book of Enoch, Volumes one and volume two, which we'd been really

[B]

smart, we would have had.

[A]

Yeah, we would have been had this. We left them out in the barn because that's where we were recording the podcast. But because of my mobility issues, we don't go out there anymore. And we just never brought the books in. But this volume two is Mike's commentary on the parables, the book of Parables, which is the section we're in right now, and his comments on chapter 57, which we had just gotten through there. The vision of a whole array of chariots, or a new army of chariots, host of chariots with people riding in them. Mike adds, it is not clear if after this refers to more enemies who followed the Parthians and Medes, or if this vision, described in the first person by Enoch is an altogether different subsequent conflict. Unlike previous visions narrated by Enoch, there's no angel in this chapter to assist in the interpretation. Let's see. The holy ones from heaven took note or marked it instead of or marked it black was heard. The latter source notes manuscript evidence for there was sound. The point is, the clamor of battle is heard by God's heavenly host, and the pillars of earth were moved from their place. This is the language of. Of the eschatological day of Yahweh, the day of the Lord. So points for Sharon. She was absolutely right, because this would be a future event. Then they shall all fall down and worship the Lord of spirits. This line is part of the argument put forth that the other host of verse one is returning Jews, not Gentiles. Nevertheless, the Old Testament has Gentiles coming to Jerusalem to worship Yahweh as part of the end of days. Isaiah 66, 21. First, Enoch witnesses the same thought elsewhere and references verses that we haven't gotten to yet in chapter 62, 63, and 90. So, yeah, future event. Day of Yahweh, day of the Lord. Probably another conflict.

[C]

Possibly Armageddon.

[A]

Yes. Well, the day of the Lord would seem to indicate Armageddon.

[C]

It would indeed. Shall I start reading?

[A]

Yes. Chapter 58.

[C]

Okay. In the winter, those of you playing the Jay winter game at home, it is chapter three. But regardless, it is the third parable.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And I began to speak the third parable concerning the righteous and elect. Blessed are ye, ye, righteous and elect, for glorious shall be your lot. Now, why righteous and elect as if they're two separate groups? I don't know the answer to that. Just I. It occurred to me that that's odd that it should. You would expect it just to be the righteous or the elect.

[A]

Mm.

[C]

And the righteous shall be in the light of the sun and the elect in the light of eternal life. Is it possible we're talking about angelic beings versus humans?

[A]

That could be. Or it could be just a way of. Could be. It's just a way of identifying the same group.

[B]

Well, we'll see if it makes it more clear here as I read ahead. The days of their life. Sounds like soap opera. The days of their life shall be unending, and the days of the holy without number. And they shall see the light and find righteousness with the Lord of spirits. Let me know if I come to the end of a chapter for you. Because his, again, his divisions are entirely different. And there shall be peace to the righteous in the name of the eternal Lord. And after this, it shall be said to the holy in heaven that they should seek out the secrets of righteousness, the heritage of faith.

[A]

Interestingly, Nickelsberg and van van der Cam in the Hermania translation, instead of the holy in heaven, he's got the holy ones in heaven, the kettuchin. Yeah. And again, reference to the loyal watchers in heaven.

[B]

Yep. Depends upon whether it's Aramaic. Aramaic or Hebrew, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This. I don't think this has happened yet. I think this passage is future from.

[C]

From now.

[B]

Do you think that too? Just trying to.

[A]

Yeah. Again, I think this is still. This is prophetic, as the whole section of the whole section is prophetic.

[B]

Isn't that wonderful?

[A]

Yeah. Which. Which is why my. My fixation on the history of, you know, the Parthians, meads.

[C]

But I think that's important because it's

[B]

an already, but not yet.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

So this is a future version of what has already happened.

[B]

So that gives us sort of a pattern.

[C]

What did happen is going to be repeated writ large.

[A]

Yeah. The secrets of righteousness, by the way, held by the chosen one, the anointed one, that's mentioned in 1st Enoch 49. 2.

[B]

What verse are you on?

[A]

That would be verse 5 in. Well, chapter 58. But since you're reading Jay Winter, I don't know.

[B]

Well, verse five here. And they shall seek the light and find righteousness with the Lord of spirits.

[A]

Let me keep reading further down. After this, it will be speaking to the holy ones.

[B]

Let me keep reading. There shall be peace to the righteous in the name of the eternal Lord. That's where I'd stopped reading next. Okay.

[A]

All right, sorry.

[B]

And after this, it shall be said to the holy in heaven that they should seek out the secrets of righteousness, the heritage of faith. No, actually, that is where I stopped reading. Okay, so next verse. Is it still the same chapter in here? Okay. For it has become bright as the sun upon the earth, and the darkness is past. And there shall be a light that never ends. And a limit of days they shall not come. For the darkness shall first have been destroyed and the light of uprightness established forever before the Lord of spirits.

[A]

That's the end of the chapter there.

[B]

And the next one begins. And in those days, prophetic. These are wonderful promises. And we see something similar in the. The Book of Revelation where we see that when there's a new heaven, a new earth, that the sun and the moon are no more. Perhaps even the stars, we don't know. But the sun and the moon are Gone because Christ himself will be the light, because all darkness is gone and

[C]

the sea is no more.

[A]

Right. There are those who would argue that this is, this, this contrast between light and darkness, the battle between light and dark, good and evil, is an indication of the influence of Zoroastrianism on the early church.

[B]

But possible, but.

[A]

Or on the reducing time from Babylon.

[B]

Didn't they believe in a war between the sons of light and the sons of darkness?

[A]

Yeah, but again, they also being Jews that had returned from Babylon. There are those who would argue that Judaism was influenced by that, by contact with the religion of Persia while they were there in Persia between the early 6th century BC and when they finally returned in the mid 5th.

[C]

Well, I suppose that is possible. You can't help but be influenced when you're surrounded by a certain culture. But I think that this is just my opinion. But the fallen realm and the war of the Watchers, the spiritual war that has been and is still raging all about us, that is worldwide. And therefore there are various ways of explaining and telling that. And sadly, those stories all too often come from the fallen realm.

[A]

Yeah. Wanting to make people question their faith. Can I really trust this Bible? Can I really trust what we're being taught?

[B]

We are being propagandized every day by the fallen realm.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Yesterday's PID radio was about the propaganda coming out in a couple of weeks from Steven Spielberg. Spielberg. The question is whether the holy ones in heaven who are told to seek the secrets of righteousness are the holy ones. In other words, the watchers in heaven, as in Daniel chapter four, were holy ones. Or Kedashin is used in parallel with Irene Watchers. Or whether these are human. Nicholsburg and Vanderkam argue that the holy ones are exalted humans.

[B]

Well, possibly. But traditionally in the Bible they are angelic beings.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Who are in heaven.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But what if this is pure speculation, Speculation warning. What if this has to do with the whole of history playing out before those who are observing the holy ones in heaven and the fallen ones here on earth, the non human entities that are at war with one another, that the holy ones in heaven are learning from what the Lord does for humans and they are to seek out this truth. The heritage of faith is ours.

[A]

When we go back to one of the book of the watchers, the first 36 chapters, the fallen watchers are condemned for stealing worthless secrets from heaven.

[B]

You know, these especially.

[A]

Yeah. And I would have to do a quick search back to try to find the, the chapter and the, the. The condemnation. Let's see if I can find it here quickly. Probably not. But anyway, was. Basically, they were condemned for stealing. Here we go. Yes, I found it. How about that?

[C]

Good for you.

[A]

First Enoch 16, chapter three. You were in heaven and no mystery was revealed to you, but a stolen mystery you learned. And this you made known to the women in your hardness of heart. And through this mystery, the women and men are multiplying evils on the earth. So they didn't really learn anything important. They thought they were stealing something of value, but it wasn't really valuable. But here in First Enoch 58, after this, it will be said to the holy ones, and after this, we're talking about after the day of the Lord, the final conflict on earth, that they should seek in heaven the secrets of righteousness. So interesting.

[B]

It's. It's also interesting with that story. If you look at the fallen realm version of that story, it has to do with the Mez Mes.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And Inanna stealing them.

[A]

Yeah, that's the Sumerian tablets, what the Sumerians believe, the tablets that contained all the secrets of human civilization. Everything from, you know, be nice to your neighbor to, you know, here's how to make beer.

[B]

Yeah. And. And getting into the idea of how you set up a city, and the gods of the cities think things like that. And she stole them from her uncle Enki. Again, this is a fallen realm version. Got him drunk. He woke up and they were gone. He was pretty mad.

[A]

Yeah. Well, we moved to chapter 59, which is very short one.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

In those days, my eyes saw the secrets of the lightnings and the luminaries and their laws.

[B]

And this one says, secrets of the

[C]

lightnings and of the lights and the judgments they execute.

[A]

Okay, so we're talking about the lights, stars, angels, possibly the judgment that they execute. They flash for a blessing or for a curse as the Lord of spirits wills.

[C]

That's so interesting. I think this is more than meets the eye, so to speak.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But what it seems to imply is that as we see in the Old Testament, if you look at the actual Hebrew word behind lightning or thunder, it seems to imply a sentient being.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Not just what we had last night here on the ridge. Lots of wind and lightning and thunder.

[A]

So. Yeah, interesting. Lightning and the stars or the lights, sun and moon as well as the stars.

[C]

I'll go ahead and read the next verse.

[A]

And there I saw the secrets of the thunder, and how when it crashes in the heights of heaven, its sound is heard. And in the dwelling places of the earth, he Showed me the sound of the thunder for peace and blessing or for a curse according to the word of the Lord of spirits. So it's interesting that those the meteorological events are connected to the will of God.

[C]

In the winter version it says, and I saw saw the secrets of the thunder, and how when it resounds above in the heaven, the sound thereof is heard. And he caused me to see the judgments executed on the earth, whether they. Next page, so to speak. Where is the next page? There it is. I'm reading on my MacBook, so don't

[B]

normally do it this way.

[C]

Be for the well being and blessing for a curse according to the word of the Lord of spirits. Yeah. Do you have an after that and

[A]

one more verse after that? All the secrets of the luminaries and the lightnings were shown to me. How they flash for blessing and for satisfaction.

[C]

The next one begins in the year 500.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

In the seventh month on the 14th day of the month in the life of Enoch. Now, the seventh month of the Hebrew calendar, isn't that the month when Rosh Hashanah begins?

[B]

Yes, but this is the 14th day of that Rosh Hashanah leads into. Is it the Feast of Booths or is that the Yom Kippur? Rosh Hashanah, 14th day of.

[A]

And then. Well, let me take a quick look.

[B]

Thanks, I appreciate that.

[A]

And I was getting a little confused there because Nicholsburg and Vanderkam decided to change their numbering and they put. They start with like verse 11.

[B]

They're trying to trick us.

[A]

Yeah, let's see. Hebrew holidays 20, 26. But I need to know what the. What the dates are. Okay. Rosh Hashanah followed by Yom Kippur, which is followed by Sukkot or feast of Tabernacles. So.

[B]

Yeah, so the 14th day of. Is it Adar. What's the name of the month?

[A]

It is.

[B]

Those at home are shouting it at us.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, gosh,

[B]

sorry. I would go look, but if I do that, that this, this app has been kind of twitchy and if I leave the app and try to look online, it will suddenly be gone.

[A]

Yeah. Rosh Hashanah is on Tishri.

[B]

It's on Tishri. Yes, silly.

[A]

I knew that because I've written about this in the context of the handwriting on the wall in Daniel 5. It was in Tishri.

[B]

So the 14th day of that month would be just about the middle of

[C]

the month, the middle of the lunar cycle.

[A]

Right. Which would be again, Yom Kippura's. Come on, back up.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

The reason I want to know. This is because it tells us for a reason.

[A]

Yes. They don't include the information for no reason at all. Yom Kippur begins several minutes before sunset on the 9th of Tishri to after nightfall on the 10th of Tishri. And then Sukkot begins on the. Hello, [e-mail] and why is it not giving me the specific dates? It's telling me the dates on the. The Roman calendar that we use. September 20th.

[C]

Yeah, I know. You could actually type into the search engine. 14th of Tishri.

[A]

Well, yeah, again, you're way ahead of me here. 14th Tishri, the final day of preparation before the week long Jewish festival of Sukkot. Okay, so yes, it is the eve of Sukkot.

[C]

Oh, okay, so that's.

[A]

So 15th Tishri is when feast of Tabernacles Sukkot begins.

[C]

Okay, so in the year 500, in the seventh month, on the 14th day of the month in the life of Enoch is how this begins. Shall I keep reading?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

In that parable, I saw how a mighty quaking made the heaven of.

[B]

Excuse me. Made the heaven of heavens to quake. That's an important phrase. Heaven of heavens. It's almost like the holy of holies. So the could be the highest level of heaven, but heaven of heavens to quake.

[A]

Now, does it. Again, does it say in the life of who does it say in the 14th month in the life of

[B]

Enoch? Did I not say that?

[A]

Okay, because I'm looking at the Nicholsburg translation. It says Noah.

[B]

Oh, and that's interesting.

[A]

And here's the reason why. And again, I was trying to catch up because for whatever reason they. The. The Hermenea translation starts with 60, verse 11, goes to verse 23, and then jumps back to verse 1.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They do a jump to the right

[B]

and a jump to the Left in the RH. Charles, this is the third parable.

[A]

Right, chapter 58, according to Mike Heiser's commentary. Again, thank you for bringing the book.

[B]

Oh, you're welcome.

[A]

We should have had this in here all along. The name Enoch is found in all of the Ethiopic manuscripts. But the dominant consensus among scholars is that this name is textually corrupt. Hence the cross marks in the Charles translation.

[C]

Oh.

[A]

Nickelsberg and Vanderkam amend the text to read Noah. The reasons are straightforward. First, the year 500 is drawn from Genesis 5, verse 32, where it's part of the date formula for Noah's life. Not Enoch. Enoch was transferred, was translated up into heaven when he was 365 years old. Not 500.

[C]

Good point.

[A]

Given the present text's dependence on the vision. This is from the Nickelsberg and Vanderkam commentary on first Enoch and its present trend location in an Enochic text, it is not surprising at all. It is not surprising that all manuscripts ascribe the vision to Enoch. What is surprising is the year 500, since the biblical genealogy lists 365 as Enoch's last year on earth.

[C]

Easy to remember because that's the number of days in a, you know, the solar calendar.

[A]

Right. Genesis 5:23. These considerations have led to a consensus that the present text is an interpolation of a text about the Flood and Noah, whose name has been changed to fit the present Enochic context. So if you're reading the R.H. charles translation. Yeah, I can see. Let me look at my. Well, I'm reading from the Winter Logos Bible software here. Yeah, they've got Enoch, but Charles Worth adds a note, a footnote. Some think Enoch is a later substitute for Noah. And in the RH Charles. Yes. There is a He's got it included with cross marks on either side of the word, indicating that the word or passage so enclosed is corrupt.

[B]

Noah being Enoch's descendant.

[A]

So. Yes. So it should be Noah, not Enoch. Second verse eight is the subject figure of the chapter. Well, we haven't gotten that far yet, so.

[B]

Okay. In the life of Noah, we presume.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

In that parable, I saw how a mighty quaking made the heaven of heavens to quake. And the host of the most High and the angels, a thousand thousands and ten thousand times ten thousand were disquieted with a great disquiet. And the head of Days, the ancient of days, sat on the throne of his glory. And the angels and the righteous. The angels and the righteous stood before him. And a great trembling seized me, and fear took hold of me.

[A]

Yes, well, Mr. Gilbert Nicholsburg and Vanderkamp render it. And the holy and righteous angels were standing around him.

[B]

That's interesting.

[A]

So again, is it and the holy.

[B]

Are these two righteous angels?

[A]

Are they two groups or one group?

[C]

And a great state trembling seized me and fear took hold of me. And my loins gave way. Well, and dissolved were my reins. And I fell upon my face. And Michael sent another angel from among the holy ones. And he raised me up. And when he had raised me up, my spirit returned. Is like he'd fallen down dead.

[A]

Verse three in the Hermonia. My loins were crushed and my kidneys were loosened.

[B]

Yeah, I know.

[C]

That's why I sort of laughed when I saw the.

[A]

I wept myself.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

For I had. And Michael sent another angel from among the holy ones. And he raised me up. And when he had raised me up, my spirit returned. He had fallen down instead. For I had not been able to endure the look of his host and the commotion and the quaking of the heaven. Now, is it just the appearance of these angels that's scary. Or was he watching an army lining up? Because there could be. There's quaking going on in heaven. Why is there quaking in heaven?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And if we're watching Noah, has this anything to do with. Are we suddenly looking at the past again and seeing the. The prelude to the flood? And again, this is me trying to figure it out. Prelude to the flood. And how the angels saw it. Just a question. And Michael sent another angel from among the holy ones. And he raised me up. And when he had raised me up, my spirit returned. For I had not been able to endure the look of his host and the commotion and the quaking of the heaven. And Michael said to me, why art thou disquieted with such a vision? Until this day lasted the day of his mercy. And he hath been merciful and long sorry. And he hath been merciful and long suffering towards those who dwell on the earth.

[B]

And when the day and the power

[C]

and the punishment and the judgment came, when the Lord of spirits hath prepared for those who worship not the righteous law, and for those who deny the righteous judgment, and for those who take his name in vain, this day. Sorry. That day is prepared for the elect a covenant. But for the sinners and inquisition for the elect, a covenant. Yeah.

[B]

When the punishment of the Lord of spirits shall rest upon them, it shall rest in order that the punishment of the Lord of spirits may not come in vain. And it shall slay the children and their mothers, and the children with their fathers. Afterwards the judgment shall take place according to his mercy and his patience. It's so difficult for me to imagine or to discern what exactly is meant here. Is this the heavens looking at the prelude to a flood? Or is this continued last days prophetic language and it just is the echo of as in the days of Noah. And that's really speculation. Don't know.

[A]

Yeah. Well, the reason I'm looking puzzled here is because for some reason Charles decided to insert verse 25 after verse 6.

[B]

Well, let me just explain this for a second for those who are listening. Winter moves things around.

[A]

Yeah. So do. So do Nicholsburg and Vanderkamp. Because it's because Again, they started with verse 11, go to verse 23, then jump back to verse 1.

[C]

Yeah, maybe in the.

[B]

I think they're reading from an Ethiopic text in many cases.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And sometimes a German translation of the Ethiopic test text.

[A]

Right. And what. What Nickelsberg and Vanderkam tried to do was combine Ethiopic, Syriac and Greek into one reconstructed text.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But Charles, looking back on the older translation from the 19th century, Charlesworth continues going from verse 6 to verse 7, as do Nickelsberg and Vanderkamp. But again, since they started this chapter with verse 11 and went to verse 20, so I'm having to jump back

[B]

and forth here, except the next verse,

[C]

in winter is just highly high weirdness on steroids.

[A]

Yeah. Two monsters.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, that would be verse seven in the chart.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Shall I continue reading? And on that day were two monsters parted. A female monster named Leviathan to dwell in the abysses of the ocean, over the fountains of the waters. But the male is named Behemoth, who occupied with his breast a waste wilderness called Dudain. Is this Dudael well, on the east of the garden where the elect and righteous dwell?

[A]

That's a good question.

[C]

Where my grandfather was taken up the seventh from Adam, the first man whom the Lord of spirits created. Hold on, isn't that Enoch?

[A]

Yes, yes, it is. The seventh Adam.

[B]

So is this now Noah speaking?

[A]

So this. Yes, and that's why the consensus is that Enoch should not have been mentioned at the beginning of the chapter at all. This is Noah.

[B]

So Leviathan, Behemoth. I've got to look up Dudain, see if that is thought to possibly.

[A]

Nicholsburg and Vanderkam do note the similarity to Duda El, where Azazel has been

[B]

buried, sometimes pronounced Azazel. He's given a special place of punishment apart from Tartarus.

[A]

Yeah. Interesting to hear. You've got again, the two chaos monsters, Leviathan and Behemoth. There's much longer tradition in the ancient near east of a Chaos dragon from the sea. Leviathan, Tiamat,

[B]

Tishub, Teshub.

[A]

No, that's the storm God Ilyanka in the. In the Hurrian text, Yam in the Canaanite. But I'm trying to think of the other one, Bashmu in Akkadian.

[B]

I think it's called, like, Bashan Yorga Mondo or something like that.

[A]

That's in the Norse.

[C]

Yeah, in the Norse versions.

[B]

But a lot of legends across the

[C]

globe have stories of an ancient monster, a dragon.

[A]

Right, right. But there's Very little description of what behemoth would really, the only reference we get to that, as far as I know, as far as a land chaos monster is in the Book of Job.

[C]

Yeah. He has a tail like cedar, right?

[A]

Yeah. Sounds like a sauropod.

[C]

It does. But if this is one of perhaps two original rebels.

[A]

Yeah. A dragon like creature. Yeah. You could also have a tail like cedar.

[C]

Keep going.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I besought the other angel that he should show me the might of those monsters, how they were parted on

[B]

one day and cast the one into

[C]

the abysses of the sea and the other upon the dry land of the wilderness. And he said to me, thou son of man, herein thou dost seek to know what is hidden. And the other angel who went.

[A]

Who.

[C]

Yeah, who went with me and showed me what was hidden, told me that what is first and last in the heaven, in the height and beneath the

[B]

earth, in the depth and at the

[C]

ends of heaven, and on the foundation of the heaven and the chambers of the winds, and how the winds are divided and how they are weighed, and how the portals of the winds are reckoned, each according to the power of the wind. Isn't this what he was shown previously? I'll keep reading.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I'm getting lost. Because Hermonia, the Hermenea translation, they're really mixing it up in a way that Charles did not.

[B]

Well, again, winter does move things around, so I'll go back. And the other angel who went with me and showed me what was hidden, told me what is first and last in the heaven and the height and beneath the earth and the depth and at the ends of the heaven and on the foundation of the heaven and the chambers of the winds. And how the winds are divided and how they are weighed, and how the portals of the winds are reckoned, each according to the power of the wind and the power of the lights of the moon, and according to the power that is fitting. And the divisions of the stars according to their names. And how all the divisions are divided, and the thunders according to the places where they fall. And all the divisions that are made among the lightnings that they that it may lighten, and their hearse.

[C]

Sorry.

[B]

And their host that they may at once obey. For the thunder has places of rest assigned to it while it is waiting for its peel. And the thunder and lightning are insane, separable. And although not one and undivided, they both go together through the spirit and separate not. For when the lightning lightens, the thunder utters its voice, and the spirit enforces a pause during the peel, the way you count to see how far away the lightning is, and divides equally between them. For the treasury of their peels is like the same sand. And each one of them, as it peels, is held in with a bridle and turned back by the power of the spirit, and pushed forward according to the many quarters of the earth. And the spirit of the sea is masculine and strong, and according to the might of his strength, he draws it back with a rain. And. And in like manner it is driven forward and disperses amid all the mountains of the earth. And the spirit of the Hoar, Frost is his own angel. These are entities, and the spirit of the Hail is a good angel.

[A]

Barad.

[B]

We had hail here last night, and the spirit of the snow has forsaken his chambers on account of his strength. There is a special spirit therein, and that which ascends from it is like smoke, and its name is frost. And the spirit of the mist is not united with them in their chambers, but it has a special chamber, for

[C]

its course is glorious, both in light

[B]

and in darkness, and in winter and in summer.

[C]

And in its chamber is an angel.

[A]

You know, this is interesting, and I'm happy to see that. I'm tracking along with Mike Kaiser's commentary here. The mention of hail is what brought this to mind. Psalm 78. And the plagues of Egypt, He God gave over their cattle to the hail Barad and their flocks to thunderbolts. The Reshafim, he let loose on them his burning anger, wrath, indignation, and distress. A company of destroying angels. So the idea that hail, thunderbolts, other meteorological things are spirits, angels is not an unbiblical concept, not at all.

[B]

And the spirit of the dew has its dwelling at the ends of the heaven and is connected with the chambers of the rain. And its course is in winter and summer. And its clouds and the clouds of the mist are connected, and the one gives to the other. And when the spirit of the rain goes forth from its chamber, the angels come and open the chamber and lead it out. And when it is diffused over the whole earth, it unites with the water of the earth. And whensoever it unites with the water on the earth, it's entire. That's like a fragment. For the waters are for those who dwell on the earth, and they are nourishment for the earth from the Most High who is in heaven. Therefore there is a measure for the rain, and the angels take it in charge. And these things I saw towards the garden of.

[C]

Sorry.

[B]

Towards the garden of the righteous. And the angel of peace who is with me, and said to me, these two monsters prepared conformably to the greatness of God, shall feed. And I saw in those days how long cords were given to those angels.

[A]

That's. That's the end of chapter 60.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

So these two monsters, chaos monsters, shall feed.

[A]

But there's more yet.

[B]

There's more.

[A]

Charlesworth. James Charlesworth, not to be confused with R.H. charles.

[B]

R.H. charles. Right.

[A]

Renders it this way. These two monsters are prepared for the great day, the great day of the Lord when they shall turn into food.

[B]

Oh. Oh, that's really interesting.

[A]

Yeah. So that the punishment of the Lord of the spirit. Spirits should come down upon them in order that the punishment of the Lord of the spirits should not be issued in vain, but slay the children with their mothers and the children with their fathers, when the punishment of the Lord of the spirits comes down upon everyone.

[B]

Those are verses that are moved from previous where I read them. Yeah, they were in a different spot.

[A]

Okay. After that, there shall be the judgment according to his mercy and his patients. Yes, correct. R.H. charles had moved versus earlier up into the. Into the chapter.

[B]

It's really kind of interesting. You and I have talked about this, you especially quite a bit. That the ritual feeding of the dead. The dead will actually become these. These monsters, these fallen angels and demons. They shall become food instead of being fed. They shall become food.

[A]

Well, like in Ezekiel 39, 17 and also Revelation 19:17, that gruesome feast where the mighty men and their horses will become food. In other words, the army of Gog of Magog, or the army of the kings of the earth who come to fight at Armageddon will be turned into food for the birds of the air. Basically, they will feed creation.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The Hermenea translation, Nicholsburg and Vanderkam, verse 24. The angel of peace who was with me, said, these two monsters, prepared according to the greatness of the Lord, will provide food for the chosen and righteous.

[B]

That's strange.

[A]

Again, they're interpolating. Not interpolating, they're collating different translations and trying to get at the original so that the punishment of the Lord of spirits rests upon them, in order that the punishment of the Lord of spirits does not go forth in vain. And the children shall be killed with their mothers and the children with their fathers, when the punishment of the Lord of spirits rests upon them, afterwards will be the judgment according to his mercy and is long suffering.

[C]

Yeah, this is definitely future.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

This is a vision of something yet to come.

[A]

Yeah. Beyond the flood of. No.

[B]

How long have we been going?

[A]

Well, we're. We're about an hour and minutes. I think we're well, well past. But these are the three, four chapters that I'd hoped that we would get done today.

[C]

And we did.

[A]

Yeah. Took a little struggling, and maybe we'd have been closer to an hour if we hadn't blathered for 20, 15 minutes at the beginning. But, yeah, when you start digging in and really start pulling on these threads, there's a lot more stuff in here than. Than you. You think. And when you're. This is why we read out loud. Because when you read alone, silently, it's just easy to just sort of skip over things instead of stopping and saying, hey, wait a minute, what does that mean?

[C]

And that happens to us a lot.

[A]

And that's when you really get at some interesting stuff.

[C]

So reading is what started off, us off writing in the first place.

[B]

Back in.

[C]

Was it 2014 when we stumbled across the. The order to Moses as we were reading aloud.

[A]

Turn around, 2015.

[C]

Yeah. And we just went, hold on.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

What was that in there that he was told to turn around?

[A]

Yeah, that was a surprise.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Exodus 12 or Exodus 14.

[C]

Anyway, we've been surprised many times.

[A]

Exodus 14, verse one, I think. Yeah. Was that always in there? We don't remember that being in there before. I'm pretty sure that wasn't in there. That has led to a lot of research that we would probably not have done had we not started pulling on these threads. And again, it comes from just saying, hey, wait a minute, stop there. What does that word mean? Why did they mention that particular time? And again, looking at just the dates there and the clue in the year 500, like, wait a minute, didn't Enoch get pulled off the Earth in his 365th year?

[B]

Well, the other interesting thing about that timestamp is it takes us to just before Sukkot. And the feast of Tabernacles is the other name for it. This hasn't been fulfilled yet.

[A]

Right.

[B]

All of these feasts, so many things in the biblical calendar have fulfillment. The spring feasts were fulfilled when Christ was here the first time. And the future fulfillment begins with, I personally think, Rosh Hashanah, when he returns and takes his elect with him, takes the body of Christ with him. And I remember Dr. Thomas Horn mentioning that he didn't think that tabernacles had been fulfilled yet.

[A]

Right. And when we look at Tabernacles was the big festival in the calendar, there are three that were, that required Jewish men to travel to the temple to make sacrifice. And the one in the fall, Sukkot, was there was just an incredible amount of beef slaughtered there. On day one of the festival, they slaughtered 12 bulls. Day two was 11, day three was 10, day four was nine. And you get it so that by the end of seven days, you had 70 that had been slaughtered, representing the gods of all the nations that God was rescuing his people from. 70 being a number that was not a numerical value. It was a symbol representing all of them. And there was no other festival on the Jewish calendar that required that in addition to the bulls, they were also sacrificing goats and lambs and doves. But the amount of bulls that were being slaughtered there was nothing comparable in the Jewish calendar. So it was unique. And I think the symbolic representation of, you know, these are the gods of the nations that are being judged was likewise unique. So the fact that it's here in first Enoch connected to the vision of Noah and what he foresaw is, is really significant. So again, whenever there's a date, whenever there's a timestamp or a number of some sort, you have to stop and say, okay, let's do a search. Is there something else that this connects to? Like when we were talking about Pentecost last week and connecting the 3,000 who were killed for choosing the golden calf over Yahweh in the time of Moses and the 3,000 saved at Pentecost in Acts, chapter two?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Like, has that always been in there? Never noticed that before.

[B]

Neither had I. So, anyway, a good, good catch, honey.

[A]

Well, anyway, thank you for this, this study here because for a lot of Christians to be considered fringe and not worth devoting time to, especially diverting time away from where we could have spent, you know, an hour on Isaiah, chapter 12, which will be coming next week.

[C]

We will get to that next week.

[B]

By the way, if you are listening to this, as Derek said, we read aloud for a reason, because you catch

[C]

more things that way. You could do that with your family.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You can have your children or your grandchildren read aloud with you and find out how many times they discover something. Oh, Grandma, mom, dad, Grandpa didn't know

[C]

that was in there.

[B]

Did you know that as Derek loved to come home from school.

[C]

Mom, did you know?

[A]

Yeah. Mom, who'd been a schoolteacher in her younger years, teaching everything from first grade through grades like 1 through 12 or K through 12 in a one room schoolhouse. Excuse me. So one of the issues with the autoimmune issue here, does that take us

[B]

into the OG Report?

[A]

The OG Report or a question?

[B]

Oh, oh yes, let's do a question first. The question, by the way, comes from our app. If you download that, you'll find that there's a conversation area top right bubble talk bubble. So you can go in and you can find the section where it says Ask a question of Sharon or Derek.

[A]

Tim asks a question I've been doing a deep dive into eschatology lately and I'm hitting a wall with futurism. We are futurists believing that we are indeed prophecies of the day of the Lord have yet to be fulfilled. Which again, leading up to Armageddon and all of that. I grew up being taught that Revelation is almost entirely about the future. But the more I read the actual text, the more I see language suggesting the original audience expected to see these things to happen soon or within their generation. For example, Jesus says this generation will not pass entirely away. Matthew 24:34 he tells people standing there that some wouldn't die before seeing him come in his kingdom. Matthew 16:28 the Epistles full of phrases like the time is short, the judges at the door. Matthew 26:64 Jesus tells Caiaphas, you shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power and coming on the clouds of heaven. Revelation 1:7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will mourn over him. If we take these verses at face value, a first century fulfillment seems much more natural to the text than a 2000 year old gap for those who hold to futurism. How do you interpret these specific timing verses? I'm not looking to argue for a specific ism, just trying to understand the strongest counter arguments to a first century fulfillment of these verses. Thanks in advance for your insights.

[B]

Okay, let me jump in on the last part of that. Caiaphas, the Spirit, the actual individual inside the earthly mortal body, will see when Christ returns.

[C]

But I would also say we have not yet seen a moment when the entire earth sees him return and mourns.

[A]

Correct?

[C]

Yeah, that has not happened.

[A]

That is, I think the biggest argument because there are so many things that are prophesied in Revelation. Like the earthquake, such as has never been seen at the opening of the sixth seal?

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

The world in Old Testament apocalyptic prophecies like Zechariah 12, the whole world coming to war against Jerusalem, and Jerusalem becoming that cup of staggering. As we mentioned the Whole world is at the gates of Jerusalem. Basically, when God himself takes the battlefield, that has not been fulfilled.

[B]

The not everyone here will die before they see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Father. I can't remember the exact language he used there, but John did indeed get to see all of that.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

Before he died.

[A]

Yeah. It was Matthew 16:28.

[B]

And this generation shall not pass away refers to the revival of the fig tree, I think. And that generation, it depends upon how you define a generation. There are some say it might be as long as 100 years.

[A]

Yeah. 1628, Matthew. Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom. But again, John certainly did see that.

[B]

He did. And yes, the audience for the book of Revelation were those churches, but it's thought that those churches, though they existed at the time, they also represent the. The aspects of church history. Yes, yes, we talked about that in Unraveling Revelation. Yeah.

[A]

Also the word translated generation, because I remember teaching on this in a Bible study, a Sunday school class in the church in which we got married.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Kirkwood Road Christian Church in Kirkwood.

[B]

Great, great place.

[A]

The word generation could also mean this race of people, because you're talking about genealogy, you're not talking about necessarily a 40 year generation or a 70 year generation. The word in Greek can also mean the race of people. In other words, this generation, the Jews, will not pass away before the return of the Son of Man. So, yeah, I think that we've got to look at the prophetic words in Revelation and the things that were prophesied to take place. And if you're looking at a first century fulfillment, when did wormwood hit the sea and cause a third of the life in the sea to die and a third of the trees and grass to burn up and things like that. Those things did not happen.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

If you want to get more of an insight as to how Derek and

[C]

I view it, unraveling Revelation has 300 episodes and we begin with the book of Genesis trying to unpack the revelation of Jesus Christ throughout the entire Bible.

[A]

Right. And there's a. A playlist of all 300 episodes, beginning from oldest to most recent. So if you want to start with episode one, you can find [e-mail] unraveling revelation or you'll find [e-mail] TV. And that playlist is there, beginning with the very first episode, which we started recording in the old sky. Watch TV Studio, which no longer exists. It's been turned into the studio for Joe Horn's new program, Life TV Now. But you can go through all 300 episodes, which will take you 150 hours because each one is exactly 28 minutes and 30 seconds long.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

And we. We begin actually with the Book of Genesis and then go into. Eventually into Revelation, but then skip to some of the apocalyptic prophecies. Ezekiel, Zechariah, etc.

[C]

I'm looking at. Question, Tim, I'm sorry, I was just going to say I finally got to

[B]

connect again to the.

[C]

Our Internet is out today, so we're having to collect. I'm having to connect via my phone. I finally managed to get my MacBook to connect to my phone so that I could see that the word that is translated generation can mean age. This age will not pass away.

[A]

Okay. Okay. So in other words, this. Yeah, Eon.

[C]

This age. The time ordinarily occupied by each successive generation. A space of 30 to 33 years. But some see this as long as 100 years. Genetically speaking, there is a. A clock that is ticking down inside of your cells as they reproduce during mitosis. And that is generally thought to be genetically. Before you get into massive danger to the genes on each chromosome, the telomeres protect that they can only go so long. And it's about 140, 145 years that you could theoretically live genetically.

[A]

Yeah, well, they're trying to find ways around that. Well, good luck with that.

[B]

Well, I know. I'm just saying, if you look at the clock inside mankind's cells, we have the potential to live 140. 145 years.

[A]

Yeah, but.

[B]

So perhaps that's a generation.

[A]

Could be. Yeah, but the word deriving from the. The Greek, from which we get genetics.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So you can instead. Yeah, so instead of a generation, 70 years, 140 years, whatever, you'd be talking about a particular race of people.

[B]

Possibly.

[A]

Yeah, possibly. But again, just getting back to the idea that these things happened in the first century. Like, okay, we've got a lot of written records from the first century, thanks to Josephus and Philo of Biblos and other Roman writers. When did these horrific things, like, you know, wormwood.

[B]

When do we see Christ coming in clouds with great glory? And where, if we assume all of these have happened, where's that millennial reign? Where is Christ reigning from? Jerusalem.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I understand.

[B]

I can't remember the name of the person who asked the question. It's a great question. Thank you for that question, because I can totally understand why it could be interpreted as past fulfillment. But there are certain things within that, those promises that there is no way you can say they've been fulfilled.

[A]

Right. You have to allegorize things. And there are friends of ours who do hold to a partial preterist view of. And we don't divide over it because at all. The bottom line, we know that Christ is coming back at some point. Unless you are a full preterist, and there are some of those out there, I think that is borderline heretical, quite frankly.

[B]

Well, where is he? Yeah, they're saying he reigns spiritually.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, he will be the Holy One in Jerusalem.

[A]

The Holy One in Israel. Right. It is a literal fulfillment, a bodily fulfillment. He will be here on earth, and the earth will be restored to its original factory settings.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

So.

[C]

So love that.

[A]

But it is a logical question. And thank you, Tim, for asking. So. And if you want to submit questions to us, you can find those sections in the conversations area on the app. We have some Gilberthouse.org app we have

[C]

some remarkable people listening to this. You guys are way smarter than we are in many cases, and you ask amazing questions.

[B]

So thank you very much for that.

[A]

Yeah. Well, the OG report, the big.

[B]

The odd report.

[A]

Yes, OG the old geezers. We're still waiting on the final diagnostic, I guess, interpretation. Interpretation by the hematologist. And call oncologist. But the preliminary reports seem to indicate from the bone marrow biopsy that was done two weeks ago from tomorrow, is that it's ruled out leukemia, it's ruled out myeloma, it's ruled out amyloidosis, which

[B]

is what we thought might be going on.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah, that's good to know.

[A]

And that is good news all the way around.

[B]

It is.

[A]

So the most likely interpretation, which is what the doctor had said he thought it would reveal, is something they call MGUs, which means monogamopathy of unknown significance. Meaning there's a weird protein floating around in my blood coming out of the bone marrow, and they don't know what exactly. It's not. It's not cancerous.

[B]

No.

[A]

But they will have to monitor it just to make sure.

[B]

Yeah, I. I think your doctor assumed that that would be the results. But being a careful physician and detective, he wanted to rule out these other

[A]

possibilities rather than just saying, well, it's probably fine.

[B]

I know, I know. And there are some doctors who do that. And look, I'm not going to fault doctors that do that. Many physicians are swamped. They just don't have the time. But this guy, we, we really like the doctors. Derek has been dealing with like them a lot.

[A]

So it, Yeah, I mean you don't know for sure if you don't test. So but we'll, we'll probably get his final word this coming week, I would imagine. But that is how we are reading it, bearing in mind that we are not doctors nor do we play ones on tv. But that is an answer to prayer. Now it doesn't get us any closer to figuring out the neurological issue, the cidp.

[C]

You know, speaking of that, and as

[B]

we go into prayer at the end of this, I just want to remind those of you, many of you know

[C]

Kenny C. And he's been dealing with some cardiovascular issues over the years and

[B]

retaining a fluid, which is one reason he gets the ECP done periodically.

[C]

He's also apparently going to go see a neurologist because he's been having some difficulties that a neurologist might be able

[B]

to diagnose and treat. So keep him in mind as you pray as well.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

We're looking forward to your friend of

[A]

ours seeing him and, and praying with him. He's going to be at both of the conference will conferences we'll be speaking at this year.

[B]

Yeah. And we could list all those. But if you go to our calendar,

[C]

you'll see wherever where we're going to be.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The big thing I want you to

[C]

mention though is coming up first and that's the Roswell event.

[A]

Yeah. There's, there's a live event that is being organized by friends, our friends Joe Jordan and Guy Malone.

[B]

Our favorite guy.

[A]

Yes, our favorite Guy, Guy Smiley, our missionary to Roswell. The coming up Thursday, July 2nd. That is the first day of the annual July, the annual Roswell UFO Festival. It's the second Christian symposium on UFOs and alien abductions. And this year it's especially timely because of the Steven Spielberg movie that's coming out and the growing drumbeat for disclosure, disclosure, disclosure. You know, whistleblower appears to Congress, you know, Christian ministers and evangelists getting secret briefings from an independent UFO research group. We've been hearing this now for almost nine years now, since the fall of the winter of 2017 when the new York Times publicized that tic Tac video from the 2004 USS Nimitz incident.

[B]

I think we're being prepared, we being the church, I think we're being prepared to believe in an Antichrist.

[A]

Yeah. Or at the very least question the Bible. And as we said on PID radio yesterday, because we spent A lot of time talking about the forthcoming Spielberg movie and what it means. If you understand Genesis 1, where God says, let us create man in our image as meaning that we bear his image in a manner of speaking, like we're carrying his banner, his flag. We are his moral agents on Earth, then Even if actual ETs exist and we don't believe that's the case.

[B]

We don't.

[A]

But if, even, Even if actual ETs exist, it does not change our status.

[B]

No.

[A]

As God's image bearers. So it shouldn't shake our faith at all. So when the Spielberg movie comes out and people, well, what do you think of ET Exists? Yeah. So what? We're still followers of Jesus Christ. Doesn't shake our faith in Christ. One, one, one bit, one iota.

[B]

Not at all.

[A]

So. But there are people out there who are not prepared for this because they're looking at Jesus as sort of a cosmic life coach or what have you. They've not been taught apologetics. How do we know that the Bible is true, it's been accurately preserved and this comes out and suddenly it's like Maybe there is E.T. maybe, maybe they did create us. Maybe the Bible's wrong because it doesn't mention extraterrestrials.

[B]

No, it. This is the fake news version that is coming out. It's the fallen realm trying to re. Propagandize the entire world.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They want to erase Jesus Christ.

[A]

Right. And that's why Guy and Joe are holding this event. Jackie Elnor, who with her husband, late husband Bill, have been researching and writing about the deception of the UFO phenomenon for more than 30 years. We'll be together July 2nd, see Central Time. It'll between 3:00pm and 8:00pm so if you're in Roswell 2:00pm and 7:00pm, we will be streaming it live on our YouTube channel. So. Gilbert, I'm sorry. YouTube.comilberthouse Go there, subscribe, click the bell so you get notifications when we go live or post anything new. But you can submit questions either live in the chat during the event, or if you want to send questions in advance, send those to [e-mail] that's infoilberthouse.org

[B]

and aren't you going to be doing another test run live on. On YouTube?

[A]

Right, because Bruce Collins hosted the Bruce Collins show and his YouTube channel, he'll be streaming it to his YouTube channel and I'll be streaming it to our YouTube channel and also my X account at the same time. So hopefully we can get the word out there. More, you know, broadcast to a wider audience. Between now and July 2nd, Bruce and I are going to do another technical test.

[B]

So if you hit the notification bell, you'll be notified when that's about to go live.

[A]

You're right. And you can, you know, then weigh and let us know how the audio sounds in my case on Bruce's feed. The audio is fine on our audio feed. I had the wrong audio input selected.

[B]

But now you know why you're doing the test runs.

[A]

And they're doing this on the first day of the UFO festival so that people who are in Roswell can then go to the big events on the third and the fourth. But as we discovered when we were there in 2017 for the 70th annual 70th anniversary of the Roswell crash.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The Roswell UFO Festival is really a spiritual quest for a lot of people.

[B]

Oh my goodness. It's like Paganicon.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There are crystals and, and fortune tellers and all sorts of high weirdness going on.

[A]

Tarot card readers. Yeah. Didn't see anybody there recruiting from MIT or Caltech, you know, looking for next generation of aerospace engineers. No, strangely enough, strangely enough, this is why they're doing it. It has become a spiritual quest. Science fiction has become evangelism for the ET Gospel. And that's why the Steven Spielberg movie is going to be so important. It's going to be a cultural event like E.T. like Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Spielberg is such, I mean, he is the preeminent director and style storyteller really of the last 50 years here in the U.S. yeah.

[B]

He's sort of a John the Baptist for the coming deception.

[A]

Yeah. And if you see interviews with him about the movie, right now he's saying, when I made E.T. i wished this could be true. Now I'm convinced that this is true. And he wants people to share in that belief.

[B]

He's so going to regret that one day.

[A]

Yeah, he will. Sadly, he's going to lead a lot of people to question their faith. It's almost like they're saying if you have a firm belief in your cosmology, in your what grounds you, your religion, you're closed minded and not very smart. Agnosticism, you know, I don't believe in anything. I'm a scientist. I don't believe in anything.

[B]

Well, metaphorically speaking speaking, this is going to be the shaking of the pillars of the earth.

[A]

Well put. Yeah. So anyway, that, that event coming up July 2nd, and again, if you subscribe to our YouTube channel and then click that bell. YouTube.com Gilbert House. Please take part in that on July 2nd, Thursday. I'll be here in our in our bedroom studio while Bruce Collins is on site with Guy and Joe and Jackie in Roswell.

[B]

What time does that start?

[A]

It starts at 3pm Central Time on Thursday, July 2. It's in the events calendar both at Gilberthouse.org and at on the app.

[B]

Right. And in the events calendar, you will see that we're going to be in Ohio in late July. You'll see that in August, two weeks after the go there for conference, we're going to be at the Remnant Rising conference in our backyard, Springfield, Missouri. But you will also see if you use Gilbert2.0 for that Springfield, Missouri conference for the Remnant Rising, you will get $20 off your in person ticket. And if several of you are coming, I would think $20 off each of those in person tickets and you can use that money to go see the animal. What was it called? Wonders of Wild Wonders of Wildlife Museum. It's a little pricey, but. Oh, is it worth it? It's right there in Springfield, Missouri.

[A]

Wonderful. It's been voted the best aquarium in the United States three years running.

[B]

That's saying a lot.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, this, this really is a big city aquarium and museum. They've got alligators in there and all kinds, like owls.

[B]

You can touch, manta rays.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

The sting has been removed. You can swim with sharks.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Know somebody who did that?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Fulfilled her lifelong dream.

[B]

Indeed, that did happen. So check out the calendar. And boy, you guys are so wonderful. Appreciate your prayers for Derek's and thank you, Libby, who sent us a wonderful book on the healing foods that are in the Bible. And we're going to start digging into that soon.

[C]

Many of you have sent us suggestions and many of you have also suggested

[B]

some great ways to take care of our unexpected cats. But we're going to believe in the

[C]

Lord for new homes for the unexpected cats. We're feeding and watering them. And they have, like I said, those great chairs out front with pillows and they're pretty cozy, actually.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And if they stick around, well, they've got a whole Vole village, a whole village to take.

[C]

You don't want just one volt?

[A]

No, no.

[C]

So, yeah, they're sweet.

[A]

Well, let's close with a word of prayer. Father, thank you for bringing us together again this week. And Lord, we just ask your spirit to fill us. Guide us. Grant us wisdom and discernment. Lord, we're living in a time when things seem unsettled. We see violent protests here and abroad. We see ongoing conflict. And Lord, we just pray for the people of Iran that the grip of that regime would be broken and the people of Iran would be free to determine their own future. But Lord, we know true peace will not come until you return in the clouds with great glory. Lord, we pray for your wisdom. We ask that you impart your wisdom to our elected officials of all political parties, Lord, that they would be drawn to serve according to your, according to your will and not their own. But again, Father, we know that humans being what we are, that true just government will not return until you establish your kingdom in the new Jerusalem. We long for that day, Father, but until that time, we pray for your spirit to grant us the courage and wisdom to proclaim the hope that we have in you with gentleness and respect. Help us, Lord, not to become a stumbling block, but to those who need salvation of your gospel, Father, we pray for your blessing. We thank you for your sacrifice and we pray in the name of your holy name, Father, Jesus Christ. Amen. Tonight on A View from the Bunker, it is iron and myth number 50. We talk about vampires.

[B]

Yeah, you know, it's a shame that Jud Burton, his connection was sort of not working very well and also said

[C]

that Brian was the only one that

[B]

wore the new iron and myth T shirt.

[A]

That. That is true. That is true. I did show a new, you know, the logo up there on tonight's video so that people will get a look at that new the new logo and

[B]

you can order one through Lighthive Creations or come to Springfield. We'll have them on our book table.

[A]

Absolutely. So. But yes, you want to hear a discussion of vampires and how they're portrayed by Hollywood. And the reason we did this is because there is actually a sort of hidden reference to vampires. In Proverbs 30, verse 15, the Word translated leech is actually a Hebrew word that's a cognate for an Acadian word that means blood sucking spirit. So yeah, vampires in the Bible. So that's tonight on A View from the Bunker, which will drop at 7pm Central Time. But until next time, I'm Derek Gilbert.

[B]

I'm Sharon Gilbert. We love you guys.

[C]

Thanks for joining us.

[B]

Bye bye everybody.

[A]

Thank you for joining us. We post a new Bible study each Sunday morning, subscribe to the podcast and expect explore the archives [e-mail].