They Shall Curse by Molech

Summary

Gilbert House Fellowship – "They Shall Curse by Molech"

Date: February 8, 2026
Hosts: Derek & Sharon Gilbert
Episode Theme:
A deep dive into Isaiah chapter 8, exploring its prophecy, supernatural context, ancient cults of the dead, connections to Molech, and the relevance for today’s spiritual struggles. The Gilberts bring history, theology, and contemporary commentary, paralleling ancient warnings to our tech-saturated, spiritually fraught world. The tone is scholarly, fun, and faith-full, with an emphasis on hope in Christ amid darkness.

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on Isaiah 8, connecting its messages about judgment, idolatry, and the cult of the dead (specifically invoking Molech) to broader biblical themes and current events. The Gilberts emphasize how these ancient practices—child sacrifice, consulting the dead, spiritual deception—are mirrored in modern spiritual threats, while encouraging listeners to rest in the constancy and victory of Christ.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Isaiah 8 in Historical and Prophetic Context

[12:26]

• Isaiah’s prophecy is during ongoing conflict—Judah, Israel (northern kingdom), and Aram (Syria) forming coalitions against the rising power of Assyria.
• The imminent Assyrian victory is announced through Isaiah’s son’s symbolic name: “Maher Shalal Hashbaz” (spoil quickly, plunder speedily).
• [16:26] Sharon: “The name of the son means spoil quickly, plunder speedily, which is essentially the name of the book he’s told to write.”
• Previous reference to another son whose name means “A Remnant Shall Return”—signifying both judgment and hope for Israel.

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2. The “Already, Not Yet” Nature of Prophecy

[19:14][24:47]

• Isaiah’s predictions are fulfilled both in his own time (Assyrian conquest) and prophetically, pending further end-times fulfillment.
• Discussion of liminal boundaries—the Euphrates as a border between worlds, as in the imagery of Revelation.
• Modern relevance: Technology and AI as new instruments of spiritual deception paralleling ancient “unruly powers.”

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3. Spiritual Rebellion & The Cult of the Dead

[39:31]

• The Israelites’ syncretism: Turning to necromancy, mediums, and sacrificing children to Molech, even among Judah’s kings.
• Isaiah condemns this: “Should they inquire of the dead on behalf of the living?” [40:34] Derek: "God didn’t forbid this in Leviticus 18 because it didn’t work, because it was all made up. It was because it does work. And those spirits lie."
• Background on necromancy: Hurrian ritual pits (ov), medium of Endor, and summoning spirits from the underworld.
• [45:05] Derek details ancient ritual practices linked to consulting the dead, noting their continuity in Isaiah’s time.

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4. The Identity and Names of The Adversary

[24:03][24:13]

• The hosts unpack the many names for a spiritual adversary: Molech, Saturn, Kronos, Enlil, Ashur, Shemyaza, Abaddon/Apollyon.
• Sharon: “He’s King of the Underworld. And that’s what Molech actually means.”
• These names all reference one primary supernatural enemy present under various guises throughout scripture and pagan tradition.

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5. Human Rebellion, Judgment, and Divine Faithfulness

[33:20][31:28]

• Despite centuries of Israel’s apostasy—including child sacrifice—God never rejected them outright.
• Addressing “replacement theology,” Sharon and Derek refute the notion that God has abandoned Israel: Sharon: “The idea that He’s just thrown them out... Paul rejected that in Romans: ‘God has not rejected his people whom He foreknew.’”
• Judgment befalls all humanity, not just Israel—it is a global spiritual issue.

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6. Jesus Foretold as “Stone of Stumbling”

[28:22][29:03]

• Sharon and Derek highlight the prophetic appearance of Christ in the Old Testament:
  • “And He will become a sanctuary and a stone of offense…” (Isaiah 8:14)
  • [28:54] Paul, Romans 9: "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame."
• Ties to Daniel’s stone prophecy, Zechariah: Messiah is repeatedly referenced with varied imagery.

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7. Seeking Guidance: God vs. The Dead

[39:31][41:56]

• Reiterated prohibition on necromancy; Isaiah ridicules seeking revelation from the dead vs. the living God.
• [40:57] Sharon: “Only when you and I started doing research into the rituals involving the dead, that verse never really stood out. Now it’s like a neon sign.”
• The angel’s words at Christ’s tomb parallel Isaiah: “Why do you seek the living among the dead?” (Luke 24:5).

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8. Judgment Imagery: Darkness, Hunger, Curse

[47:30][54:21]

• Final judgments: Those consulting the dead become like the unhappy, hungry, wandering spirits they contact.
• Play on Hebrew words: “They shall curse by Molech and by their ghosts” (G.Hyder translation, [54:21]).
• Famine as both physical affliction and supernatural entity—a motif also echoed in Revelation’s apocalyptic horsemen.

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9. Hope in Messiah and the Coming Light

[49:04][56:39]

• Despite gloom and anguish, Isaiah’s prophecy pivots to hope: “The people walking in darkness have seen a great light.”
• Jesus is again referenced; the “already, not yet” hope fulfilled in Christ.
• The upcoming study of Isaiah 9 will pick up this theme ("the valley of the shadow of death" as a real place).

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10. Practical Exhortations: Technology, Current Events & Spiritual Warfare

[04:03][06:14][08:13][72:29]

• Conversation about encroaching AI, digital security, and a call to be wise but not afraid—spiritual threats in physical forms.
• Derek: “Just be wise, but don’t be afraid.”
• The real battle isn’t political, technological, or merely physical, but spiritual: [73:02] “It’s the spirits behind the deep state, the deeper state... That is who we pray against.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [16:26] Sharon: “The name of the son means spoil quickly, plunder speedily, which is essentially the name of the book he’s told to write.”
• [24:03] Derek: “Saturn, Kronos, Enlil, Elil, Ashur… Shemyaza, Abaddon, Apollyon, Molech. All of them are the same. This is the same entity under many different names.”
• [24:13] Sharon: “He’s King of the underworld. And that’s what Molech actually means.”
• [40:34] Derek: "God didn’t forbid [necromancy] in Leviticus 18 because it didn’t work… It was because it does work. And those spirits lie."
• [28:54] Paul (quoted): "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame."
• [33:20] Sharon: “The entire world is going to be chastised… That’s why we see to the ends of the earth.”
• [72:29] Sharon: “But it will be according to the Lord’s will. He, in this case, will use doctors. He often does. He uses doctors.”

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Important Timestamps

• [12:26] — Introduction to the core reading: Isaiah 8.
• [16:26–18:31] — Names and meaning of Isaiah’s sons; double fulfillment of prophecy.
• [19:14–24:13] — Assyrian threat, liminal geography, and supernatural entities.
• [28:22–30:56] — Stone of stumbling: Paul’s use of Isaiah; Jesus foreshadowed.
• [39:31–45:05] — Cult of the dead and ancient necromancy explained.
• [54:21] — George Heider’s translation: "They shall curse by Molech and by their ghosts."
• [47:30–49:10] — Judgment imagery, gloom, famine as both physical & spiritual affliction.
• [56:39–61:59] — Connections to Galilee: Isaiah 9 and “the people walking in darkness have seen a great light.”
• [73:02] — Spiritual warfare is not against humans or politics: “It’s the spirits behind the deep state.”

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Additional Themes and Reflections

• AI & Spiritual Warfare: Commentary on recent AI developments as metaphors for ancient spiritual invasion — “digital drugs,” networked deception, and the importance of spiritual vigilance.
• Replacement Theology Refuted: Scriptural defense of God’s faithfulness to Israel.
• Women in Redemption: Sharon explores how God repeatedly elevates and redeems women’s role, from Eve to the first witnesses at Christ’s resurrection.
• Personal Updates: Brief health updates, travel plans, and gratitude for community support—evidence of the body of Christ caring for its members.
• Upcoming Content: Announcement to continue with Isaiah 9 next week to maintain the narrative’s thematic flow.

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In Summary

This episode provides a tour de force of biblical exposition, connecting lofty theological themes (prophecy, eschatology, spiritual rebellion) with grounded practical wisdom for modern believers. The Gilberts blend scholarship, humor, and heartfelt prayer—encouraging listeners to stand firm in Christ, aware of spiritual realities both ancient and new, awaiting the coming light.

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For further study:

• Isaiah 8–9
• George Heider, "The Cult of Molech: A Reassessment"
• Derek Gilbert, "The Second Coming of Saturn"
• Romans 9, Hebrews 2
• Genesis 6 (Watcher rebellion), Revelation 9 (Abyss), Daniel 2 (Stone Prophecy)

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(Summary prepared for those seeking a rich, accessible digest of the podcast’s biblical insights, contemporary applications, and spiritual encouragement.)

Transcript

[A]

From the beautiful Missouri Ozarks, Greetings and welcome to the Gilbert House fellowship for Sunday, February 8, 2026. I'm Derek Gilbert.

[B]

I am Sharon Gilbert and welcome to our living room. Everybody, we are glad you're here.

[A]

Yes, we are. And we thank you for joining us in this adventure as we dig into the book of Isaiah again today. Boy, we got some good stuff coming up today.

[B]

Oh, I'm telling you, we've just got to do. Look, if you haven't read the book of Isaiah, there's tons of stuff in there.

[A]

There is. And it's easy to skip over a lot of stuff if you don't have the historical reference for what was going on in Isaiah's day.

[B]

So true. And if you don't know your Bible and we, we do not claim to know the Bible by heart. We've just read enough of it that now and then we can recognize. Oh, this is referencing this.

[A]

Exactly. And it helps having study Bible tools. If you go to the Gilberthouse.org website, it's our main web hub, you'll find in the left hand column there links to some of our favorite Bible study tools that are online and absolutely free. So avail yourself of those because they will help you dig in and get below the surface, you know, pop the hood on the Bible and, and see what's going on in there in the region.

[B]

So much going on. By the way, this, there, there are interesting things happening here at Gilbert House during this month and next month and we will be telling you some of the new things that we're going to be doing this year. Pre. Soon. Not today. Yeah, but, but yeah, Derek and I are sort of sketching them out. Sort of like Isaiah. We're getting a clean tablet and we're going to write down some things.

[A]

And if you want to follow along, well, we again encourage you to, to do so. But as a. Another tool that you can make use of that is our free app, which you can download to your smartphone or tablet for iOS, Android or Amazon Kindle Fire devices that gets you access to all of our content, not just the Bible study, but our weekly podcast, PID Radio, which is very likely, and I don't think this is an exaggeration, the oldest, longest running podcast on the Interweb in the interwebs. Just because we've been doing this for a while.

[B]

You mean just our podcasts in general

[A]

or the Bible study PID Radio?

[B]

Oh, yes, yes.

[A]

Well, of course, this, this podcast has been around. This Bible study has been around for a while, too. It's we're in our 12th year of this now. We've been doing a lot of things for a long time. I know from the bunker is. Goes back to the spring of 2009. So that's kind of.

[B]

I thought that was older than that. For some reason I thought, okay, I thought it went back to when we were in Columbia, but maybe

[A]

not quite. No, we started that in when we were in Shelbyville. So yeah, we have to remember, see, which house were we in when we did this?

[B]

That's so funny because I am very visual and I do think, okay, where was I when I heard that song? Or where was I when we did. Had this guest on for an interview. We've interviewed a lot of people over the years and if you delve into the archives, open the vault in the app, you can get all kinds of stuff.

[A]

Yes. So you'll find [e-mail] app and of course we've got versions for smart TVs and set top boxes as well. Roku, Apple TV.

[B]

If you've got a smart TV, that's just a little bit of a smart alec. That's our kind of television.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And so, you know, we'd be happy to be on there and dumb him down.

[A]

Exactly. And you know, get us in there before these AI agents start getting into every nook and cranny of every electronically connected device.

[B]

Oh, my goodness.

[A]

I think we better shut off the. You better shut off the WI FI on our fridge.

[B]

Oh, are you listening to me? I know. Who needs WI FI on their fridge?

[A]

I know it was.

[B]

But it shows up.

[A]

It was a silly thing that. Okay, it was on sale. We didn't go looking for a WI FI connected fridge. We've never used it. But it is one of those devices that a wise hacker, smart hacker could get in and use to get access to your whole network.

[B]

Well, that's exactly right. We were sort of pressed to get a new fridge.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We were about to leave for Israel.

[A]

Right. Yeah. And the old fridge was suddenly.

[B]

Was extremely hot.

[A]

Yeah. Like, that's not right.

[B]

That's not right. So we got one as fast as we could and they delivered it the very next day. You know, that. Which was just in time.

[A]

Just in time. So that was very helpful. But yeah, getting. There are a lot of WI FI connected devices anymore in your home. And if you're using a really simple password. We're fortunate that we're kind of out in the country, so we're not living around, you know, say, in an apartment building where you can have somebody on the third floor and you're on the fifth floor and they've got access to your network all of a sudden because of your Internet connected vacuum cleaner. It's.

[B]

Or Jeff the Evil Jeff the Evil Roomba.

[A]

Yeah. But, yeah, just keep an eye out for stories about these AI agents. This is a thing based on the. The Claude AI. Somebody developed a version of it called Open Claw, that you could. Then you download the app, attach it to one of your messaging apps on your phone or tablet or something like Facebook messenger or Telegram or Signal or WhatsApp or whatever, and then it can do things for you. But some of these things now are accessing the web on their own.

[B]

It will answer emails for you, and from those emails, it'll look and see exactly what needs to be scheduled. It's like an assistant.

[A]

Yeah, but evil. Yeah. We've talked about this last week on PID Radio about the new social media platform that is collecting, you know, the. It's got over 1.8 million AI agents now that are part of that. That system, and now they're exchanging malicious code with one another.

[B]

Yeah, it's called Digital drugs.

[A]

Digital drugs, yep.

[B]

So they are getting these code drugs, these digital drugs that allegedly the. The AI agents get high on, and then they begin to do evil things while they're high and hallucinating and this and that. It is really madness on steroids. And we are moving so quickly into a dystopian.

[A]

We are. Yeah. There are a couple of science fiction stories I can think of off the top of my head that banned the use of computers because of the trouble they can cause. Frank Herbert's Dune, for one, which had humans that had been trained mentats. Mentats who were trained to take the place of computers. And then there was another one that was a collection, I think, originally based on a collection of short stories called A Canticle for Leibowitz.

[B]

Oh, yeah, I remember that.

[A]

Yeah. It's about 60 years old now, but, yeah, they banned almost all technology because of the problems that they can cause. Except there was a small group of monks who preserved the knowledge and the technology for. You know.

[B]

Did Matheson write that one?

[A]

I don't think that was Matheson. No, I'm pretty sure it wasn't. I remember reading it many, many years ago, and I've forgotten the main outlines of the story, but anyway, just things going on in the world. Things are changing at an exponential rate. And the one thing that doesn't change is our Lord.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

We're seeing this from the beginning. So let us not be too concerned. Don't get your adrenaline pumping because of what's going on in the world out there. Just take note of it. Saying, okay, yeah, well, we'll go shut down the WI fi on the fridge after the program and, you know, just be wise, but don't be afraid. Let's open with a word of prayer.

[B]

Actually, I think I already turned it off, but I. Oh, good. I'd love to check.

[A]

I haven't seen it shown up as an alternative network, so that's good. Father, thank you for this day and for bringing us together over your word. We pray, Father, that through the study of your word and knowing that you are unchanging and unchangeable, that our futures are secure, that whatever we see in the headlines around us each day will not affect our ultimate destiny, which is to be reunited with you as part of your. Your divine counsel, your family. So, Lord, as we study today, we pray for the wisdom to discern in your word, the encouragement of knowing that all of this has already been settled, that your will is going to be accomplished despite what the enemy has planned, and that we see in your word, Father, the lengths to which you have gone to redeem us from these evil intelligences. And how the prophets of old saw the working of those spirits and how they wrote against and preached against those who had turned to these lesser Elohim for power and knowledge and fame. Lord, may we be content with our lot, knowing that you have placed us at this point in history for your purposes. May we seek out your will for us and be wise enough to follow the path that you have set before us. Be with us as we study, Lord, again to grant us the wisdom to learn from this study that which you would have us know. And we ask this in Jesus name. Amen.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

I'm just hoping that because I had breakfast about half an hour ago, my stomach is now in the midst of gustating. Gustating. And the wireless microphone I've got is in the vicinity of my. My solar plexus here. So I'm hoping it's not.

[B]

Maybe we should get some of the ear mics for in here or we

[A]

just bring in the ones from the barn because we're not using those. They would work with the road microphones.

[B]

Yeah, that's actually what I meant.

[A]

Yeah. And those would at least spare spare listeners the sound of my.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Rumbling.

[B]

The reason Derek and I, and you're probably aware of this, and you will get more of this on the OG report later on Old geezer report. We don't go to out to the barn to do a whole lot of podcasts anymore. Therefore, while we didn't do it because the dogs, we couldn't leave them that long. And our dogs have been re home to an amazing family in Florida and they are so, so happy there. We get reports back now and then, but that's why we're inside the house. And of course, in the wintertime, it's very difficult to get out to the barn safely.

[A]

Yeah. Now when my. Well, we'll get to the OG report later. Yeah, yeah, that may change, but then there may be other changes.

[B]

The Lord's gonna show it to us. By the way, Today is the 30th birthday of Mike Spalding's church, his ecosia.

[A]

Ah, okay. 30 years ago, that's Calvary Chapel in Lionel, Ohio. So.

[B]

Yep. So happy birthday, happy anniversary, however you're calling it, to the amazing people. And to Mike and Kathy Spolden.

[A]

Yeah, they've done. And they continue to do incredible work and we're looking forward to seeing them again in July. So we'll talk about that at the end of the study as well. Isaiah, chapter 8, verse 1. Then Yahweh said to me, take a large tablet. I guess they didn't. I didn't know they had iPads 2700 years ago.

[B]

Well, I. That's why I was saying, take a clean tablet or, you know, whatever, take

[A]

a large tablet and write on it in common characters. Common characters. Hebrew really means with a man's stylus. Okay. Belonging to Maher Bilmar, Maher Shalal hash Baz, which in Hebrew means the spoil speeds, the prey hastens.

[B]

This is essentially the title of the book he's supposed to write in. The Septuagint says, and the Lord said to me, take to thyself a volume of a great new book and write in it with a man's pen concerning the making of a rapid plunder of spoils, for it is near at hand.

[A]

Yeah, basically what this is doing, it symbolizes the Assyrian victory which is imminent over the coalition of Israel, the northern kingdom. Isaiah is in the southern kingdom, Judah, Israel and Aram, or Syria. They were together along with a coalition of other small Aramean states in what is now Syria, trying to hold off the. The growing power of the Assyrian military. And by this point they've been fighting against the Assyrians for more than a century, going back to the time of Ahab and even Omri, his father.

[B]

So.

[A]

But they.

[B]

It looks like nothing changes in The Middle East.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Well, exactly. They have been fighting each other for 6,000 years. And I will get reliable witnesses. Uriah, the priest who's mentioned in Second Kings, by the way, as the high priest under the king of Israel, King Ahaz. And Zechariah, the son of. Yeah, Berekaya.

[B]

Yeah, I was going to say that's what says in the Septuagint. Now, this is interesting. Remember, God's law requires two witnesses.

[A]

Yes, The Hebrew. Actually, they translated, but in the Hebrew it's actually.

[B]

Yeah, Septuagint just says, Zacharias, the son of Barakayas.

[A]

Okay. Well, anyway, verse three. And I went to the prophetess, and she conceived and bore a son.

[B]

This is his wife. Yeah, I went into the prophetess.

[A]

Yes, which is a euphemism. Euphemism. Very interesting. There are not many prophetesses in the Old Testament. You've got Moses, Sister Miriam, Deborah. Or Deborah, who shamed Barak into going to battle against the Canaanites. Huldah and Noadiah, who's mentioned in the book of Nehemiah.

[B]

And Mrs. Isaiah.

[A]

And apparently Mrs. Isaiah. Yes. I went in to the prophetess and she conceived and bore a son. Then Yahweh said to me, call his name. Maher Shalal Hashbaz. For before the boy knows how to cry, My father or my mother. The wealth of Damascus and the spoil of Samaria will be carried away before the king of Assyria.

[B]

The name of the son means spoil quickly, plunder speedily. Which is essentially the name of the book he's told to write.

[A]

Exactly. Saying, belonging to. So, yeah, again, this is just a reminder that the doom of the northern kingdom of Israel is coming soon.

[B]

And let's not forget the mention previously of Isaiah's son, whose name means there is a remnant.

[A]

A remnant returns.

[B]

A remnant return.

[A]

Remnant will return. Yeah, that was in Isaiah. Gosh. What was?

[B]

The

[A]

Isaiah 7. Was that last week?

[B]

Yeah, it was last week.

[A]

Why am I not seeing it here? Well,

[B]

I wouldn't worry about it.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, well, we encourage you to go

[B]

back to my linear husband. Once he starts down a track, he's like a dachshund.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, no, I'm going to finish this. You go do what you're doing.

[A]

May have been two weeks. No, I guess it wasn't two weeks ago.

[B]

I think it was last week.

[A]

Okay. Well, anyway, yeah, there was a. Another.

[B]

Very symbolic is what he was told.

[A]

Right, right. Remnant will return. Right. Okay, so verse 5. Yahweh spoke to me again. Because this people has refused the Waters of Shiloh that flow gently and rejoice over reason. And the son of Remaliah, that was Pekah, the king of Israel. Therefore, behold, the Lord is bringing up against them the waters of the river. That's the Euphrates, mighty and many, the king of Assyria and all his glory. And it will rise over all its channels and go over all its banks, and it will sweep on into Judah. It will overflow and pass on, reaching even to the neck. And its outspread wings will fill the breadth of your land, O Emmanuel.

[B]

Now, okay, I love that. O God, with us. Oh, Emmanuel. And Emmanuel has been previously mentioned. Last week, right, in the Septuagint, it says, behold, the Lord brings up on you the water of the river, strong and abundant, even the king of the Assyrians and his glory. And he shall come up over every valley of yours and shall walk over every wall of yours, and he shall take away from Judah every man who shall be able to lift up his head and everyone able to accomplish anything. And his camp shall fill the breadth of thy land. Oh God, be O God, with us. This is already, but not yet.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In other words, this was fulfilled pretty quickly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it has yet to have the fulfillment of its future. Part the second part the Night and

[A]

the river as we discussed previously, the Euphrates was considered a liminal boundary. A liminal. It was a boundary between this realm and the next. So was the Jordan. The Jordan was also considered a liminal zone, which is why the mountains of Moab, the area around Mount Nebo, and then to the south of it on the east side of the Dead Sea, were called mountains of Avarim, Mountains of those on the other side, mountains of the travelers, those who cross over. They weren't talking about crossing over the river in that sense. They were talking about spirits crossing over.

[B]

And that is why I think that the not yet part of this may include a couple of very scary things. One, Euphrates dries up, the four angels bound in it are loosed, and the 200 million or whatever it is, those spirits that are going to cross over, these aren't just humans. These aren't Chinese.

[A]

No, no.

[B]

These are spirits that are coming over because it's a liminal boundary.

[A]

That's exactly what I was thinking.

[B]

Ah, yeah, and you're cute, too.

[A]

And the war of Gog and Magog, where the travelers are the ones who are defeated in Ezekiel 39:11. Valley of the Travelers, east of the sea. And it will block the travelers. Travelers being a term used for the Rephaim, the spirits of those that cross over. In other words, demons.

[B]

And interestingly enough, am I remembering this correctly, isn't Ashur referenced in part of that end times activity?

[A]

Well, not in Ezekiel 38 and 39, but we will get to it in Isaiah 14, where he says, I will break the Assyrian on the mountains of Israel. But the definite article, the. Which is ha in Hebrew, ha. Ashur is not the. Is not what's in the text. It's just Ashur.

[B]

It's like it's a proper name.

[A]

Yes. And that can refer to Assyria, the capital city of the Assyrians, or their chief deity. And I argued in the second coming of Saturn that that sort of who's in view there? Because Ashur was also known as Elil to the Akkadians and Enlil to the Babylonians. But Elil was the name transliterated into Isaiah 14:12 as HELEL, which is translated into the Latin as Lucifer.

[B]

Yeah. Not Satan, improperly.

[A]

That's the same thing dealing with this other entity, which I argue is Shamyaza, the leader of that Genesis 6 rebellion,

[B]

which gets into this idea of the Euphrates being a liminal boundary because Shemyaza is going to come back out of

[A]

the pit, out of the abyss. And that's really interesting because. Yes, here you got the Assyrians kind of foreshadowing the return of Ashur or Enlil or Shemyaza.

[B]

Ah, now you got where I was going already, but not yet.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Well done you.

[B]

Oh, both of us.

[A]

Yeah. So we're seeing prophecy here in Isaiah 8, which I don't know any other folks are talking about this. In fact, if I do a presentation of prophecy this year, I think it's going to be the return of Asher, return of the Assyrian, but it's not going to be the way the Assyrian is, because like in Micah 5 you see a reference to the Assyrian, and there are those who believe that that's the Antichrist. I think it's a little different. It's not the Antichrist, it's this other entity, the king of the bottomless pit,

[B]

Abaddon Apollyon, you might even say right now he is. This entity is working through in what we would call Syria, modern day Syria.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Terrorists wearing a suit.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[B]

What's his name or something like that?

[A]

Well, it was Al Jelani, now it's Al Shara. He went back to his birth name, Al Jelani. Is.

[B]

Is Shira somehow etymologically linked to our shore?

[A]

I don't I don't.

[B]

I'm gonna have to check that out.

[A]

Don't know.

[B]

I love.

[A]

I know we're throwing a lot of deity names around here, but we're all. We're referring to the same one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Saturn, Kronos, Enlil, Elil, Ashur.

[B]

Lots of names.

[A]

Shemyaza, Abaddon, Apollyon, Molech.

[B]

Yep, Lots of names.

[A]

Yeah, all of. All of them are the same. This is the same entity under many different names.

[B]

He's King of the underworld. And that's what Molech actually means.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah.

[B]

So verse 10.

[A]

Not that far yet.

[B]

Nope. Sorry.

[A]

Verse 9. Be broken, you peoples, and be shattered. Give ear, all you far countries. Strap on your armor and be shattered. Strap on your armor and be shattered.

[B]

In the Septuagint, it makes it clear that this has a not yet fulfillment.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Know ye gentiles, and be conquered. Hearken ye even to the extremity of the earth.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Be conquered after ye strengthened yourselves. For even if you should gain, strengthen yourself, ye shall be conquered.

[A]

Huh?

[B]

This is prophesying the end of days new world order. Right underneath the aegis of a conqueror.

[A]

Yeah. The Lexam Septuagint is very similar. Having become powerful, be overcome. For if you are powerful again, you will be overcome again.

[B]

Again. Yeah.

[A]

So already, but not yet. Verse 10. Take counsel together, but it will come to nothing. Speak a word, but it will not stand. For God is. Is with us now. Again, Emmanuel.

[B]

Yes, exactly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I get so excited when I see Jesus referenced in the Old Testament.

[A]

Yeah. Salvation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Verse 11.

[B]

We.

[A]

We're getting to some good stuff. I really don't think we're going to get to chapter nine today. Maybe, but I doubt it. For Yahweh spoke thus to me with his strong hand upon me and warned me not to walk in the way of this people, saying, do not call conspiracy all that this people calls conspiracy. And do not fear what they fear, nor be in dread. But.

[B]

Okay, were you about to start verse 13? Yeah, I thought so. Because 12 in the Septuagint is a little different. I'm going to back up to 11. Thus saith the Lord with a strong hand, they revolt from the course of the way of his people, saying, let them not say it's hard for whomsoever this people says is hard. Or whatsoever. Sorry. Whatsoever this people says is hard. But fear ye not their fear neither be dismayed. A little bit different.

[A]

Not sure what they're referring to is conspiracy.

[B]

Well, I don't get conspiracy in this, but the thus says The Lord with a strong hand. They revolt from the course of the way of this people saying, let them not say it is hard. For whatsoever this people says is hard.

[A]

Instead of conspiracy, they say it is hard.

[B]

Yeah. But you have to wonder, why would there be such a difference between the two? Conspiracy is an entirely different meaning.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Conspiracy. That word reminds me of Psalm 2. Why do the nations rage and imagine a vain thing? They're conspiring together.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Don't know.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Verse 13. But Yahweh of hosts, Yahweh of armies, him you shall honor as holy. Let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. And he will become a sanctuary and a stone of offense and a rock of stumbling to both houses of Israel, a trap and a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

[B]

Oh. Oh.

[A]

Paul quotes from this in Romans 9.

[B]

I'm going to read the Septuagint. And then you can read Romans 9. And if thou shalt trust in him, he shall be to thee for a sanctuary. And ye shall not come against him as against a stumbling stone, neither as against the falling of a rock. But the houses of Jacob are in a snare, and the dwellers in Jerusalem in a pit.

[A]

Paul wrote as it is written, Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling in a rock of offense. And whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.

[B]

He is the stone that the builders rejected. And in the. Is it the Daniel prophecy of the statue with gold?

[A]

The stone that breaks. Yes.

[B]

The stone that comes out of the heavens.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And breaks the feet.

[A]

And in Zechariah 12, you got Jerusalem being made a stone of stumbling. Yeah.

[B]

Huh? All these references to Messiah with many different names.

[A]

Yes. Verse 15. And many shall stumble on it. They shall fall and be broken. They shall be snared and taken.

[B]

Verse what?

[A]

That was verse 15.

[B]

Okay. Sorry.

[A]

Bind up the testimony. Seal the teaching or law among my disciples. I will wait for Yahweh, who is hiding his face from the house of Jacob, and I will hope in him.

[B]

You must stop there for a second. Because it's this kind of verse that we may not get out of this chapter. It's this kind of verse that is being used to support anti Israel and replacement theology claims when the Lord says that he's. And one shall say, I will wait for God who has turned away his face from the house of Jacob. There is. And I was taught this from the time I was very small, that in the present day the Lord has turned his face away from the Jewish people. But he will again remember them. And he is going to turn his face back.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's about the time that Michael stands up, I think. But the Lord is. He's got them in his hand. And just because he has turned the face away, do you honestly think the Lord is not loving them? No, he created them. He created all of us. And the idea that he's just thrown them out.

[A]

Well, you know, Paul rejected that when he wrote to the Romans in Romans chapter 11. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew.

[B]

Exactly. So this is something that the Lord has told Isaiah is going to happen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But the promise of Immanuel is still here.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And this is the thing that I really puzzles me because, yes, God chastised Israel again and again, again and again. And here he's telling Isaiah he's going to use the Assyrians to do it. But he never rejected them, even though they were sacrificing their children to Molech. And we'll kind of get to this here in beginning verse 19. They were following the Baals, they were dancing around the Asherah poles. They were sacrificing children to Molech. Even the kings of Judah, Hezekiah's son and grandson Manasseh and Amon did that. We read about a king and I forget which one we were dealing with prior to the time of. No, it was King Ahaz who was doing this. So.

[B]

Oh yes, it was sacrificed. His son.

[A]

Yeah. This was a practice that was forbidden by God. It was like the very first pagan deity mentioned in the Bible. Not Baal. It was Molech in Leviticus 18 in the middle of a chapter about, you know, don't have physical relations with this relative or that animal. Which gives you an idea as to how seriously God takes this. And yet the Israeli, the Israelites continued doing it for centuries afterwards and God still didn't reject them. So why do we expect, expect the fulfillment of modern day Israel to be fully righteous and Christian besides?

[B]

Well, exactly.

[A]

It doesn't make any sense.

[B]

I would also say that the entire world is going to be chastised.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That's why we see to the ends of the earth.

[A]

To the ends of the earth. Yeah. Everybody needs Jesus. And for us to fixate on the 2%, or is it 0.2, 0.2% of the population of the world that is Jewish and say that it's because of them, this is all going wrong. It's. Yeah, it is a snare and a trap that is drawing in professing Christians. Jerusalem is Becoming a stone of stumbling for many.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Anyway, bind up the testimony. Seal the teaching among my disciples. I will wait for Yahweh, who is hiding his face from the house of Jacob, and I will hope in him. Behold, I and the children whom Yahweh has given me are signs and portents in Israel from Yahweh of hosts who dwells on Mount Zion.

[B]

Oh, hallelujah. Praise the Lord.

[A]

This verse, behold I and the children whom the Lord has given me. Whom.

[B]

Hebrews 2.

[A]

Hebrews 2, where Jesus appearing back before God. Behold I and the children whom you have given me.

[B]

And he may well sing.

[A]

Yeah, Yeah. That is Hebrews 2 is a chapter that will make you weep once you understand the significance of all that's going on there. Start with Hebrews 1, where he talks about how Jesus made himself lower than the angels for a time, but then how the angels had been put there to minister to us as humans. And then. Yeah, it's some powerful stuff. When we get into the New Testament again, we get to Hebrews. I don't think I'm going to be able to hold it together.

[B]

Let me just read from Hebrews 2. I'm going to start with verse 11. For he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one source. That is why he's not ashamed to call them brothers. Saying, I will tell of your name to my brothers in the midst of the congregation. I will sing your praise. This is Jesus speaking. And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, behold, I and the children God has given me.

[A]

That's us.

[B]

That is us. And he may even say the name

[A]

of God in the midst of the congregation. And we will be there for the greatest concert in all of history.

[B]

Oh, my goodness. Hallelujah.

[A]

So, yeah, Paul clearly knew his Isaiah, and he quoted from Isaiah pretty frequently. Now, verse 19. Starting at verse 19, we get into a really interesting section of Isaiah, chapter 8. In fact, I wrote several pages on this in the second coming of Saturn. So I'm going to read the verse and then we'll dive deeply into the text and the deeper meaning, which is a polemic against this cult of the dead, which had two aspects to it. One, sacrificing children to Molech. Number Two, consulting the dead or the demonic spirits of the Rephaim for information. The verses here, behold, I and the children whom Yahweh has given me are signs and portents from in Israel, from Yahweh of hosts, who dwells on Mount Zion.

[B]

This actually says, who dwells in Mount Zion.

[A]

Yeah, I think in the book. Yeah. I actually quoted verse 18, but I put it as verse 19 in the book. By the way, if you've got the Second coming of Saturn, this begins on page 187, the section that I'm reading. And when they say to you. This is verse 19. Inquire of the mediums and the necromancers who chirp and mutter. Should not a people inquire of their God? Now, the word mediums is ovoth, which literally means spirits of the dead.

[B]

In the Septuagint, it says, seek those who have in them a divining spirit and them that speak out of the earth. Ah.

[A]

Okay. Chirp and mutter. Yeah. Speaking out of the earth. And that's because.

[B]

Out of Aretz.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Which is another name for the underworld.

[A]

So when in deep Septuagint. Okay, that's not in the Masoretic text.

[B]

No, it's in the Septuagint.

[A]

Yeah. Wow. Seek the ventriloquists. In the English Septuagint. The ventriloquist. Ventriloquists. And if they should say to you, seek those who have in them a divining spirit and them that speak out of the earth. Now, the speak out of the earth is in the Lexham Septuagint. Ventriloquists, though, it's like they just do not have. The translators didn't have a supernatural worldview there.

[B]

Well, there are mediums who will pretend to have a loved one speaking through their mouths, like they're ventriloquists. Like the spirit is using the human as a ventriloquist doll, which is really creepy.

[A]

Yeah. Well, that's not quite what was intended by Isaiah. Now, here's a verse, and in the book, I actually put this in bold because the verse is. Is significant. Should they inquire of the dead on behalf of the living?

[B]

Which. That's. That's the second part.

[A]

Second part of verse 19.

[B]

Yeah. It says here, shall not a nation diligently seek to their God? Why do they seek to the dead concerning the living? If that sounds familiar to you, it's because it's in Luke.

[A]

Yeah. Luke 24, verses 5. Actually, this is the angels who confronted the women who came to prepare the body of Jesus.

[B]

They've finished because they've been on the third day. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And they. The angel said, why do you seek the living among the dead? Should they. In Isaiah, should they inquire of the dead, again, using mediums and necromancers? Necromancers who raise the spirits of the dead, mediums who speak on behalf of the dead. God didn't forbid this in Leviticus 18 because it didn't work. Because it was all made up. It was because it does work. And those spirits lie.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's why. But, yes, should they inquire of the dead on behalf of the living?

[B]

I. That never. Only when you and I started doing this research into the rituals involving the dead, that verse never really stood out. Now it just like a neon sign, Right?

[A]

Yeah. I wonder if I can.

[B]

And while you try to look for that, one thing that you and I were discussing this morning is I love the way that over and over, the Lord redeems women, redeems their reputation, the things that they've done in the past. Beginning with Eve, who was the first one deceived. Of course, Adam was right there with her and he wasn't protecting her. But she was the first one who said yes. Yeah, she was redeemed. Women were redeemed through Mary, who was able to give birth to our Messiah, our own capital R, Redeemer. But then we see where the Lord speaks to the woman at the well. He. He talks to women. He shows that he doesn't see them as unclean. He sees them as someone else who's in need of his salvation. The women were the ones who showed up first, the very first ones to find out he rose from the dead.

[A]

Yeah. Which is remarkable because in the first century, women were not considered reliable witnesses. They weren't allowed to testify in court.

[B]

Oh, I hadn't even thought about that. That's true.

[A]

Yeah. So they were the first ones to show. And you want to talk about Christian Christianity being a patriarchal religion, it's like. No, women actually get treated a lot better under Christianity. In fact, the testimony of their. Their testimony being the first ones to see the risen Christ, the first ones to testify that he had risen, is really remarkable in that first century context. So let's see. Let me continue on here. I was trying to see if I could do a split screen on this, but I haven't figured out how to do it.

[B]

I just think it's kind of interesting that in the Septuagint it says, seek those who. They'll say to them, seek those who have in them a divining spirit and that speak out of the earth. Them that speak vain words, who speak out of their belly.

[A]

Yeah. Not sure about the chirping and the muttering. That's almost like. Almost like spiritism. You know, whether you're knocking under the table. But speaking out of the earth, by the way, that is a callback to the ancient practice of summoning spirits from the netherworld, which we see the example of in the case of Saul visiting the medium of Endor the night before he was killed in battle against the Philistines. This practice, which again is documented in the second coming of Saturn, we also touch on it in the Gates of Hell, goes back to a people called the Hurrians. They're the horites of the Bible that originate on the Ararat plain in Armenia. So the lowlands below where the ark came to rest, they were known from archaeological digs to do this very thing. Dig a ritual pit, the one that they found at the site of Telmozan, which was the city of Urkesh, which might be Ur of the Chaldees, where Abraham came from. But anyway, Urkesh, which is in northern Syria, right near the border with Turkey, they found a ritual pit called an ov, which derives from the same word, is ovoth, spirits of the dead. OV was the ritual pit they used to get to the ovoth. The medium of Endor was the baalat ov, the mistress of the ov, or the owner of the ritual pit. This pit, they dug down about halfway and got down about 22ft, and they couldn't dig any further because they were afraid the walls would collapse on it. But this ritual pit that the Hurrians dug, probably around 3500 BC when they built that city, probably went down 40 or 45ft. So they would descend into the earth that far down, scribe a magic circle on the floor, which is this practice that witches do today. It was like, if we put the circle on the floor, the demon will totally stay inside. Oh, yeah, I told you that. The demon.

[B]

Liar.

[A]

Okay, so anyway, then they would sacrifice a small animal, like a piglet or a puppy, which is.

[B]

I know, but that's what they discovered, the bones. So this is how they know that.

[A]

And then they would summon spirits from the netherworld. And when they would ask for the whatever favor, they would speak words that would supposedly send the spirits back down to the netherworld. Then they would cover up the ritual circle with, like, a. Like a woven mat, which I guess was like a manhole cover for, you know, the portal to the netherworld. Okay, I don't know how that worked, but they believed it kept the spirits down there. But that's what this is referring to, those who speak from the earth. It's a reference to this ancient Practice that had continued for thousands of years down to the time of Isaiah.

[B]

Yep. Allegedly summoning the ancestors. But they're really demons. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So verse 20 to the teaching and to the testimony. If they will not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn.

[B]

This says, for he has given the law for a help, that they should not speak according to this word concerning this. There are no gifts to give for it. I don't know what that means. Well, I guess no way that you can. There. There's no gift that you can give that'll stop this. I don't know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where he is. Get He. I assume this means Yahweh, for he has given the law for a help and seeking these things. That's against the law.

[A]

For he gave a law to be a help so that they might not speak like this, about which there are no gifts to give. Let's get the last two verses here, and then we'll dig into those, because there's a lot of meat in these last two verses. Verses 21 and 22. They will pass through the land greatly distressed and hungry. And when they are hungry, they will be enraged and will speak contemptuously against their king and their God and turn their faces upward and they will look to the earth. But behold distress and darkness. The gloom of anguish. Anguish. And they will be thrust into thick darkness. That sounds like, you know, a lot of metaphorical, a lot of allegorical, picturesque language.

[B]

It does. I just want to read the Septuagint. And famine shall come sorely upon you. And it shall come to pass that when ye shall be hungry, ye shall be grieved and ye shall spake. Speak ill of the prince and your father's ordinances. And they shall look up to heaven above, and they shall look on the earth below. And behold, severe distress and darkness, affliction and anguish and darkness so that no one can see.

[A]

I'm seeing three guys in overall, sitting against the backdrop of hay bales and stuff, singing gloom, despair and agony.

[B]

Well, kind of. But I just want to finish that thought because it's a semicolon at the end of that last verse. The thought continues in the next chapter. In fact, it's called. It's called chapter 8, 22A in this.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And he that is in anguish shall not be distressed only for a time. Drink this first act quickly. O land of Zebulun and of Nathalie and the rest, inhabiting the seacoast in

[A]

the land it gets into.

[B]

People walking in darkness have seen a great light that's where this is leading.

[A]

Right.

[B]

The darkness and what is available to them. And this is in the very land called the Valley of the Shadow of Death.

[A]

Right. And we, we will get to that when we get to chapter number.

[B]

Oh, I know. I just wanted to finish it. Semicolon. Yeah, there's more to this thought.

[A]

Well, again, translator's choice. Well, the period in the Masoretic text, semicolon in the.

[B]

There were no chapter division to Isaiah when he wrote these things.

[A]

Now, what I I just wanted to dig a little bit into what I wrote in the second coming of Saturn because I really peeled this apart.

[B]

Sorry, I'm joking, I'm joking. I said, did you put a semicolon in there?

[A]

Yes, I put a semicolon. And you went right into the next.

[B]

I know it. Sorry.

[A]

The word rendered inquire could inquire of the dead on behalf of the living is the word dershu, which is often translated seek or su. Search. Rather than inquire, it's translated seek or search twice as often in the Old Testament as inquire. And that's why you see the angel asking the women, why do you seek the living among the dead? What Isaiah was condemning the people of Judah of doing was inquiring of the dead on behalf of the living. What he's doing here in Isaiah 9 or 8, rather, is describing those who look at the spirit, look to the spirit realm for oracles, as people who are already dead, living in darkness, greatly distressed and hungry. This is like the dead, the pagan dead of Mesopotamia, whose descendants did not properly perform the rituals to feed them the monthly kispim ritual. And so when they were forgotten in the afterlife, they were living in darkness, they were distressed, they were hungry, they were living on clay and. Stagnant water. In verse 21, he makes this connection to the dead explicit, writing that they would pass through the land, the unhappy would pass through the land. That word pass through is avar, which is based on the same root from which we get avarim.

[B]

Oh, that's interesting. Like I said in the Septuagint says, and famine shall come surely and pass through the land.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, that's an entity, right?

[A]

Right, Right. Yes.

[B]

Capital F, Famine.

[A]

So again, as we discussed earlier, the travelers that avarim are the spirits of the dead, the demons who would travel or cross over from the land of the dead to the land of the living. And so what Isaiah is describing here is the punishment for those who defy God by using ritual pits. Those who speak speak from the earth to summit the spirits of the dead. They become just like the unhappy dead that the pagan Amorites thought their ancestors would become.

[B]

Exactly. Which is why famine is going through the land. It's the very thing that the ancestors allegedly are dealing with if you don't feed them. And so now it's come out of the earth.

[A]

Yeah. And once they realize that this is their fate, like, oh, we thought we were doing a good thing, and now we're, we're, you know, famished. They become enraged. They will be enraged and speak contemptuously against their king. But remember, king in Hebrew, mlk being the consonants, can be melek, meaning king, or it can be molech. And that's what we've got here. And this is based on the book by George Heider called the Cult of a Reassessment. He translates that verse this way. Instead of they shall curse, speak contemptuously against their king and their God, he renders it this way. And they shall curse by Molech and by their ghosts, because God in that verse is Elohei, which is like, it's the plural elohim. So the word translated ghosts there by Haider is God, capital G in our Bibles. But it doesn't always mean God.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It can mean spirits in the unseen realm. And so in the context of this passage, when you look at what Isaiah was writing with understanding of the cult of the dead that was continuing in the time of Isaiah, and he gets into it again later in Isaiah 14. And in Isaiah 65, there's, I think, a reference in Isaiah 57. The cult of the dead is something that Isaiah returns to a number of times in his book. So again, George Hyder translating that sentence this way. And they shall curse by Molech and by their ghosts.

[B]

So which verse is that?

[A]

That, that was speak contemptuously against their king and their God. That's verse the second half of verse 21.

[B]

Oh, sorry.

[A]

And as you hunger, you will be grieved and you will speak badly regarding the ruler and your fathers. So there they get the Hebrew and translate your fathers, meaning the spirits of the ancestors.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And again, in the context of this being inquiring of the mediums and the necromancers, which was always connected. And again, this is based on George Heider's research to the cult of Molech.

[B]

Let me also say that this seems to track with the not yet part of this as well. Famine itself as an entity, I would say, is probably riding right there on the economic horse and rider of The Revelation, chapter 6. The Black.

[A]

The rider of the black horse. Yeah. Yeah. Huh. I have to think about that, because that's. Because the scales. The yoke, it. Well, yoke is the more proper translation. I don't know why it was rendered scales by the.

[B]

It's because the scale can be formed out of a yoke. You have the little dishes on either side of.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Think of justice.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That also has a scale. Scale. It's a really elegant way to talk about a yoke, which is shaped like that economy, which is measured through the balance and justice system.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's everything and a bag of chips.

[A]

Well, again, interesting that he. And you were right to go on into Isaiah 9, because when you're dealing with the cult of the dead and the monuments to the dead and then the reference in Isaiah 9, 2, it's

[B]

a continuous thing in the Septuagint.

[A]

Yeah. And correctly. Because in the former time he brought in to the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali. Those areas are the upper Galilee, which is where you've got all of those dolmens and other megalithic sites that were connected to the cult of the dead.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

So. Yeah.

[B]

Hey, semicolon wins.

[A]

Semicolon wins.

[B]

Semicolon for the win. You can do it. Come on.

[A]

I apologize that. That punctuate clearly superior to the period because going on in chapter nine and rolling right into it would really help with the understanding of what Isaiah was going on about there. But we're already at almost an hour, so.

[B]

I know we are.

[A]

I knew that we wouldn't get past just the one chapter.

[B]

Well, it. There's just a lot of meat in there. And as believers, and this is getting Back to the 30th anniversary of Mike Spalding's church. He preaches meat.

[A]

Yeah, he does.

[B]

That man does not dispense candy.

[A]

No.

[B]

He's got a lot of meat for his congregation to devour, and they do.

[A]

I'll tell you another guy who does a couple of other guys. Brandon Holdhouse out. Out in California, but Doug Van Dorn in Boulder, Colorado.

[B]

Amen. Doug Hamp.

[A]

Doug Hamp.

[B]

Is he still preaching?

[A]

He is.

[B]

Good.

[A]

Yeah. Still got a congregation.

[B]

David Heavener.

[A]

Yep. Yep.

[B]

There's some great preachers out there. The late Tom Horn. And we've. I would love it if the Horn family and I think they've got some old recordings of some of Dr. Horne's sermons.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wouldn't it be wonderful to have a sermon series from him?

[A]

It would have to.

[B]

See if Joe's got that. But you know what? Donna Howell. Donna Horn Howell, she preaches just like her daddy.

[A]

She does. And she really, really sets the room on fire. At the Remnant Rising Conference back in August.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

After Mondo de la Vega gave his sermon, you know, preached, I thought, okay, whoa. Unto whoever has to speak. After Mondo. And it was Donna.

[B]

Oh, I know.

[A]

And she was the only one at that conference who could have followed it to a whole nother level.

[B]

I know, I know.

[A]

So, yeah, that was fantastic. And I think we will hear from one or both of them again at the Remnant Rising Conference coming up this August.

[B]

I think we will. And you know, if you live in the area around Branson, Springfield, Missouri, because this is going to be held in Springfield, Missouri, just like it was last year. And that was incredible. And everyone who was there, they all said they were glad that they were there, every one of them.

[A]

Yeah. So it is coming back. It was a wonderful event. And they will be back at the same facility, a great facility, the Oasis Hotel and Convention center. That'll be August 7th through 9th. And that and Mike Spalding's conference, the one in just outside Dayton, the Go there for conference. Those will be the two conferences that we are committed to for this year that will be in. In the Harvest Arrival center in Brookville.

[B]

Yeah. We've been invited to some other conferences and we just had to say no. It's Derek's. Whatever he's dealing with, it's currently being diagnosed as cidp. He. You tire easily. Your body is burning through energy really fast.

[A]

Yeah. So we are looking forward to more time reading and writing. By the way, I'm looking at our upcoming schedule of readings and we're not going to Isaiah 9 next week. We're going to Amos, the book of Amos.

[B]

We might go ahead and do Isaiah 9. I don't know.

[A]

Well, yeah, I wouldn't mind doing that because, you know, otherwise you're going to have to wait until. If we hold to the schedule, which we never do, because we wind up spending more time on these verses than we.

[B]

It's just, to me, it seems like finishing the thought kind of thing.

[A]

I would agree. And there is plenty in Isaiah 9. It is not just a messianic prophecy. But yeah. It's also the very beginning of that. That continues the thought and which really, when we realized this and realized that Matthew quoted this in relation to Jesus moving from Nazareth to Capernaum on the north shore of the Sea of Galilee, it's like, oh, I know. The valley of the shadow of death is a real place.

[B]

Exactly. Psalm 23.

[A]

All right. Executive Decision we have just made. We'll do Isaiah 9 next week.

[B]

I like it.

[A]

And then we'll reschedule. Amos will. Because the way the schedule goes, and this is kind of how we did last time. 2 Chronicles 27 and Isaiah 9:12 all in one day. That ain't going to happen anyway.

[B]

So how did we do that?

[A]

We. We clearly were not quite where we are now.

[B]

Well, if the, if the Lord tarries and. And our, you know, we managed to still be coherent.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And cogent within the time period. If we ever get back to this, we will know more then than we know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we know now.

[A]

So we'll do Isaiah 9 next week because we do want to continue this thought into Isaiah 9. And then the week. Because the week after that, then it's Enoch week.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

The last Sunday of each month we do the book of 1st Enoch and we're up to 1 Enoch 47. And if we do 47 through 50, we'll get to an interesting chapter wherein we find the teaching that John the Baptist brought to people 30 years after that was written in first Enoch about a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

[B]

Exactly. That idea did not exist.

[A]

Not in the Old Testament.

[B]

No.

[A]

So that was a new thing. And John was preaching that before Jesus came around and taught him. So where did you get the book? Got it from First Enoch. So we told you about the two conferences coming up. Our Israel tour is still on. We are going October 11th through 23rd with an optional three day extension to Jordan.

[B]

We are trusting in the Lord to give Derek the power physically to, you know, for some reason. Well, this last year there were times that you, it was obvious you were not going to be able to like at Gilgal Rafael. That's. The terrain is just too rugged for your balance issues. So you sat outside on a nice little stone near the marker for the place and we went inside and did the thing. And in the meantime you did some updates.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. People are walking around and doing other things. I just record little teaching for those who are back here in the States or wherever else in the world. Just as you know, show, hey, here's where we are today and here's why we are here today. And so that's likely what we'll do again come this fall.

[B]

We'd love for you to join us.

[A]

Yeah. We've got information at the website gilberthouse.org travel and this year we are planning to go back over to Jordan, which we did not do in October just because security situation. Yeah, you know that seems to be resolved. Lipkin Tours would not send us into a dangerous situation.

[B]

Not at all. We can. You and I can probably. I don't think you should ride a horse, but you can get in one of the, the little golf carts.

[A]

Now they've got. Yeah, they were running carriages pulled by

[B]

horses and the horses would get really.

[A]

Oh, my goodness. Some of those days it was really hot. So now there's, you know, doing little golf carts back and forth, which is.

[B]

It's better.

[A]

Yeah. Not quite as. It's a little anachronistic when you're, you know, seeing all, but so is the free WI FI sign.

[B]

I know, I know. It's so odd. So anyway, please join us. Go to gilberthouse.org travel and all the details are there.

[A]

I know we've got some people who've signed up already and are looking forward to it and we're looking forward to meeting. I'm so excited sharing the adventure with you. Well, yeah, a lot going on there.

[B]

Geezer report.

[A]

Yes. Leaning towers of geezers.

[B]

Leaning towers of geezers, that's us. That reminds me, there's some stuff coming up in Isaiah that gets references that I am working on. Book nine. Those of you who have asked about it, thank you for doing so. I can't work for more than half an hour some days. Other days I can work for a couple of hours and it's simply because the strain on my eyes is just a thing I can see really well. But the dry eye issue is a real problem and I'm seeing a rheumatologist on week from tomorrow.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And we're hoping that she. I'm hoping that she will, if it turns out to be Sjogren's, that she'll have something that can help with the dry eye issue that will also help with the Sjogren's. So there's that. Now to.

[A]

You got approval this week for insurance coverage for the treatment that has been recommended by my neurologist.

[B]

This is big.

[A]

Yeah. Because intravenous immunoglobulin is something that's pretty rare. CIDP is rare. Yeah. So they don't, they don't discount it. And for my weight, I calculated that the amount of immunoglobulin that they would give me this particular brand was going to cost about $38,000 without insurance per treatment. And this would be for like a five day treatment which may have to be repeated every three to six weeks.

[B]

Yeah. So it gets into hundreds of thousands.

[A]

Yeah. You'd say for a year's worth of treatment that's like half a million dollars without insurance. Thankfully I've gotten out of the insurance through the insurance exchange and it's a good plan that they said they will cover it. Now they're negotiating with the doctor. Okay, instead of 36 milligrams, how about just 32.5?

[B]

So to start.

[A]

To start. Once the doctor approves that, then we're good to go. So that will likely, that will likely affect my ability to work because during that week that that's going on, we will probably have to stay up in

[B]

Springfield and you'll probably lose about five, six days of productivity.

[A]

Right. Because there are some side effects to this that are fairly common, including headache and nausea and you know, that nothing life threatening, just.

[B]

But that's why we're going to stay in Springfield.

[A]

Yeah. Just in case it wipes you out. And I've been communicating with a young man who's been going through this for years because he also has CIDP and he said that, yeah, it does take a toll on you. And so you don't count on doing anything other than you have the treatment. You go back home and you sleep. So that may affect us going forward, you know, three to six weeks, say once a month going and having to have this done. But again, the fact that it's covered is huge. There will still be some out of pocket expense on our part, but nothing like what it would have been without insurance. So that was an answer to prayer, truly an answer to prayer. Because without it, it would have been just, all right, we'll just kick the can down the road and hope this progression doesn't accelerate over the next 11 months.

[B]

Yeah. Because you're now to the point where you've lost the dexterity in your hands to the extent that you now are having to use stupid speech to text.

[A]

Yeah. For a long time.

[B]

That makes it easier for you.

[A]

Right. Because my error rate, my fingers just don't. The nerves have been damaged to the point where my fingers don't always do and go where.

[B]

Yeah. Picking up a cup of coffee.

[A]

Can you use two hands, make sure that you buttons and snaps and holding a pen. Those are things that are getting challenging.

[B]

But you guys have been praying for him and suggesting things that we can do that will help. And we just want to thank you for that because it shows how wonderful the body of Christ can be to one another. Instead of infighting, you actually pray for one another and help one another with. You know, I have this experience like the guy you said you've Been talking with Joshua. We just want to thank the Lord for all of you. You guys, many of you. You have helped us so much through just sending notes of some come through the mail that are just encouraging scriptures. And you guys are amazing. It just. We spend some time in tears sometimes because you guys, it is. It's more than we ever expected.

[A]

Yeah. And very humbling to be in your thoughts.

[B]

Yeah. And also many of you have helped financially because it's been difficult without insurance. It's been a little. Yeah. Kind of taken some of our reserves.

[A]

Yeah. Had we known. Well, no, I was going to say had we known what we know now might have gotten on the insurance a year ago, but we couldn't. We. We couldn't qualify. Things changed this past year.

[B]

We made enough. We made enough on the store for it. You know, it really helped things out. But because we made that money from the store last year.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That would have taken us out of the running for that insurance.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But we. And it's one reason we closed down the store because we could see that we were going to owe a lot of taxes and we did. Yeah. And we may. We talked about reestablishing the store. We went ahead and we re paid for this, the software, things like that. And I've done inventory out there, so it's pretty much ready to go if we want to say yes. But depending upon how often you're up in Springfield and doing things, we'll see what the schedule is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we'll announce. If nothing else, we may have a. What do they call them? A sudden sale. Flash. May have a flash sale. So you have to get in on a stupid low price for some product for just like two or three days.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That kind of thing.

[A]

Yeah. When we're. When we're home and we can actually ship things.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

It's going to be a year of changes, that's for sure. But the good news is that this treatment does show a lot of progress, a lot of promise for arresting and perhaps reversing the progression of the disease.

[B]

But it will be according to the Lord's will. He, in this case, will use doctors. He often does. He uses doctors. Yeah.

[A]

And Luke was a physician.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Nothing wrong with physicians.

[B]

Not at all.

[A]

We love doctors. And we, we understand you've got to be your own best advocate when you're going to see them, but, you know, it's part of being wise.

[B]

Yeah. A lot of people in my family are in healthcare and have been in healthcare, so we love those healthcare workers.

[A]

So there's all of that. That's the og, the old Geezer report for this week.

[B]

Geezers of all time. We're not greatest necessarily, but we are the OGs of podcasting.

[A]

That is true.

[B]

I guess there's that.

[A]

Anyway, yeah, like I said, it's going to be an interesting year and we are considering some changes. Maybe some programming as things allow going forward. Maybe some more PID radio more frequently.

[B]

We find ourselves every morning talking PID radio stuff. And it isn't recorded. It's just. We talk that.

[A]

Yeah. But since we're here and we clearly have the equipment to work from our. Our living room.

[B]

We do.

[A]

We may do that, but probably not until March, I would say. And we get a better idea of what the healthcare schedule is going to be like going forward.

[B]

But we can see that the Lord may be bringing changes this year, so pray for that, that we make the right choices.

[A]

Make the right choices. Yep. Well, we'll close with a word of prayer. We will ask for wisdom. Father, we thank you for your word and thank you for the resources provided by the academics. Not all of them Christian or Jewish, just secular scholars who dug into these ancient texts that help to illuminate what the prophets knew and what the apostles knew so we better understand the world in which they lived and why they wrote what they wrote under your direction. This ancient enemy and the evil spawn that they created. The demons that are with us to this day, they are the ones we wrestle against, as Paul wrote to the church at Ephesus, not human opponents, not those who are protesting this political party or that. That this decision made by this leader or that leader. It's easy to get caught up in the political game of left and right and forget that it's not left or right. It's not even the deep state. It's the spirits behind the deep state, the deeper state. As Lt. Col. Robert McGinnis titled his book, that is who we pray against. Father, we pray for all who hear our voice today that are seeking your word and your will. We pray for your protection against those powers and principalities and cosmic rulers over this present darkness. We pray, Father, for the discernment to recognize they're working in our lives and in the lives of our friends and our family members. We know there's not a demon lurking behind every stone and every. Every shrub. But, Lord, all too often, things that are going wrong in our lives we don't recognize as the work of the enemy. So, Father, we pray for discernment. We pray for wisdom. We pray for the remembrance to turn to you in prayer first and foremost, Lord, instead of trying to solve spiritual problems through natural means, help us to tell the difference and to turn to the weapon that you have given us. For greater is you who are in us than they who are in the world. Lord, we pray for those in need of healing today. Physical healing, emotional healing, spiritual healing. May your spirit be a balm, a comfort, an encouragement. We pray for those in need of financial support, Lord, that you would provide for their needs. And Father, as we look at the political situations around the world, we pray for our leaders. We pray for peace. We pray for peace in Jerusalem. We pray, Father, for the people of Iran who have been so crushed by their leaders who serve another God. Lord, we know that a change in regime would be unpleasant. Lord, may your will be accomplished. But Lord, may the people of Iran have relief. We pray, Father, for their freedom from this dark God who has enslaved them. We pray for the church in China where the oppression continues. We pray for our brothers and sisters in places like Nigeria and elsewhere in Africa, where they are oppressed, killed, taken into slavery. Lord, we know that a day is coming when you will have vengeance. But Father, for those who are suffering today, we pray for your spirit to bring peace and comfort, relief and release the enemy. These evil intelligences who have rebelled against your authority operate so freely in this world. We understand, Lord, why those spirits under the throne, under the altar cry out, how long, O Lord? Only you know the timing, Father. But until that day we pray, Lord, for the courage to speak truth, but to do so gently and with respect that we do not bring your name into disrepute through our actions, our reactions in the flesh. Father, may we be good ambassadors for you, our king. We thank you for your sacrifice for us, Lord, as you willingly went to the cross, knowing from the beginning of time our rebellion and our sins for which we are ashamed. We ask your forgiveness, Father, and pray for your blessing. In Jesus name, Amen.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

Until next time. I'm Derek Gilbert.

[B]

I'm Sharon Gilbert. We love all of you so very much and we pray for you. Bye bye, everybody.

[A]

Thank you for joining us. We post a new Bible study each Sunday morning, subscribe to the podcast and explore the archives [e-mail].