Ep. 168.5: New #MaxFunDrive Rewards! + BoCo Preview! Brea Grant, Alison Becker, Clint McElroy and more!

Summary

Go Fact Yourself – Ep. 168.5: New #MaxFunDrive Rewards! + BoCo Preview!

Date: March 24, 2025
Hosts: J. Keith van Straaten (Jake), Helen Hong
Featured Guests & Voices: Len Wein, Sarah Benincasa, Bria Grant, Rika Aoki, Clint McElroy, Alison Becker, Trey Fanjoy, Theresa Eicher, listener Giovanni, and more.

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Episode Overview

In this MaxFunDrive bonus "mini" episode, the Go Fact Yourself team updates listeners on brand new fundraising rewards and previews exclusive bonus content (BoCo) available to Maximum Fun members. The episode spotlights both upcoming incentives and memorable moments from past shows, including deep dives into science fiction, Taylor Swift music videos, divorce ranch academia, and more. Listeners are reminded of their crucial role in supporting the show—and are treated to insightful, funny, and sometimes heartwarming clip highlights.

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MaxFunDrive Announcements & New Rewards

00:00 – 05:21

• Live Show Announcement:

  • Go Fact Yourself is doing a live show on March 29 with Tim Russ (Star Trek Voyager) and Brianne Howey (Ginny & Georgia).
  • Tickets at gofactorpod.com.

• Member Incentives:

  • Listener Tournament: New/upgrading/boosting members can enter for a chance to be a guest on GFY ([00:40]).
  • Exclusive Baseball Card: Prepay for the annual membership to get a limited-edition autographed card of J. Keith and Helen ([01:12]).
  • Big Quiz Thing Event:
    • If 500 new/upgrading/boosting members reached, they’ll hold a trivia showdown between early and late joiners, hosted on Zoom ([01:41]).
    • “You could win a chance to play the game Live on Zoom, hosted by me, Jay Keith.” – J. Keith ([02:02])
  • Live Stage Show Livestream:
    • First-ever live stream of a GFY stage show (audio and video), exclusively for new/boosted/upgraded members ([03:25]).
    • “You’ll see the full unedited show before we make it all nice for public radio.” – J. Keith ([03:46])

• Sign-Off for Rewards:

  • All rewards require joining/boosting/upgrading during the MaxFunDrive, ending March 28 ([04:05]).

Notable Quote

“You know what my favorite part of the MaxFun drive is?”
“Helen, I bet you’re going to say giving thanks to all of our listeners.”
“Well, you would be exactly right as usual.”
– J. Keith & Helen, [03:49]

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What’s in the Bonus Content Library?

05:21 – 06:20

• $5/month membership unlocks the “Bonus Content Library” with hundreds of special episodes from all MaxFun shows ([03:58]).
• Includes GFY “Extra” segments and full-length episodes just for members.

Notable Quote

“This mini episode is a little taste of what awaits you. You’re gonna hear pieces of Qu Max Fun hosts like Brea Grant, Clint McElroy and more.”
– J. Keith, [04:47]

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BoCo Preview: The Original Unaired Pilot (Len Wein & Sarah Benincasa)

05:34 – 10:15

Segment Breakdown

• Early Days & Guests:
  • Clip from GFY’s unaired pilot with comic book legend Len Wein (creator of Swamp Thing, Human Target, Wolverine) and author/comedian Sarah Benincasa.
• Comic Book Character Creation:
  • Len jokes about his “secret recipe” for successful characters:

    “Having photos of your publishers in uncomfortable positions.”
    – Len Wein, [07:30]

  • On characters that didn't hit, Len shares:

    “Even that seems to be on the verge of becoming successful… I did a character… called Brother Voodoo… now, apparently, it’s being developed as a show for Netflix…”
    – Len Wein, [08:02]

• Contestant Introductions:
  • Sarah’s specialist topics: Headspace (the app), St. Catherine Benincasa, ASMR videos ([09:19]).
  • Len’s picks: Broadway musicals, Twilight Zone, TV theme songs ([10:12]).

Memorable Host Banter

“Let’s invite him here and bring up his failures.”
– J. Keith (to Len Wein), [07:58]

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Expert Questions & Guest Reactions: Science Fiction & Inclusivity

11:00 – 15:37

“Cluster Fact” Round (Bria Grant segment)

• Trivia Question:
  • 2022 Hugo Award finalist, “Light From Uncommon Stars”, protagonist details.
  • Bria nails the award, the book title, and nearly the author’s name ([11:36]).
• Expert Introduction:
  • Surprise: actual author Rika Aoki joins as expert ([11:58]).

Author Insights:

• On science fiction’s new inclusivity:

  “The field has opened up spectacularly. If you look at the last group of finalists for the Hugo Award, I think, like, everyone’s some kind of queer… That was unheard of just a few years ago.”
  – Rika Aoki, [13:42]

• On past depictions of trans people:

  “They’ve been exoticized… seen as other. Seen as something interesting… objectified.”
  – Rika Aoki, [14:35]

• On the future:

  “Where trans voices and queer voices are right now, I think, is a great leaping off point for readerships who want to know what comes next.”
  – Rika Aoki, [15:28]

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Listener Experiences: Giovanni’s Story

15:28 – 18:28

• Listeners describe why GFY is special and why they decided to support it financially:

  “It’s a very entertaining show. It’s my ride home show.”
  – Giovanni, listener, [16:03]

• Becoming a member:

  “When I finally was in the financial position to be able to help… I decided to start doing that… You guys are one of the reasons that I’m so glad to be a supporter and listener of Maximum Fun.”
  – Giovanni, [17:41]

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Deep Dive: Taylor Swift & Music Video Memories

18:28 – 24:10

Fun Trivia with Clint McElroy & Ella

• Clint’s surprise Taylor Swift connection:

  “I’ve actually met and interviewed her.”
  – Clint, [19:07]

Taylor Swift at the Super Bowl

• Trivia about Taylor Swift's appearance at the 2025 Super Bowl while dating Travis Kelce; her screen time was minimal despite online outrage ([19:51]).
• Helen’s bonus fact:

  “She was all over the Nickelodeon broadcast… I wish I’d watched that instead.”
  – Helen, [20:08]

Expert Guest: Trey Fanjoy

• Iconic music video director Trey Fanjoy joins ([21:00]).
• Behind-the-scenes story about filming “Tim McGraw” video:

  “Taylor calls me, and she said she wanted to cut that scene… She said, ‘Well, I don't know that, and my fan base won’t either.’ She knew how young that fan base was.”
  – Trey Fanjoy, [23:41]

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Listener Highlight: Allison Becker & the History of ‘Divorce Ranches’

24:10 – 34:40

• Allison reflects on her episode where her specialist topic (Nevada divorce ranches) became the focus—and she met academic expert Theresa Eicher ([24:10]).

• On obscure expertise:

  “This is the most excited anyone’s ever gotten about an academic. Yeah, which thrills me.”
  – Helen, [25:57]

• On discovering her expert:

  “I kind of have done enough research to know who most people in this world are, and I hadn’t heard of Theresa or met her yet… finding someone else who had done such a deep dive… was just exhilarating.”
  – Allison Becker, [27:03]

• Unlikely Encounters & Deep Research:

  • Allison interviewed one of the last surviving divorce ranch attendees, Mary Lou Norton ([29:32]).
  • Dreams of pitching the story as a TV show or documentary ([30:39]).

• On the broader story’s significance:

  “Because there’s a great feminist angle, there’s a great like misogynistic oppression of the times angle… And I think it would be so compelling and so interesting… there’s cowboys. Exactly. And… a lot of African American cowboys as well. Also Native Americans… a lot of history from different groups of people that could… be given a voice in a show like this.”
  – Allison & hosts, [31:46]–[32:43]

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Final Reflections & Takeaways

34:06 – 35:16

• Theme of Community and Passion:

  “Always talk to, talk to strangers… you’d be surprised the things you can connect with… Don't be embarrassed about what you love and what you’re interested in and passionate about, you know, because you never know what it’s going to lead to.”
  – Allison Becker & J. Keith, [34:06], [34:23]

• Episode closes with a reminder:
  • Full BoCo experience awaits MaxFun members; more bonuses and rewards ahead ([34:45]).

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Important Timestamps

• MaxFunDrive Rewards: [00:07]–[05:21]
• BoCo Pilot Clip (Len Wein/Sarah Benincasa): [05:34]–[10:15]
• Bria Grant/Rika Aoki Sci-Fi Segment: [11:00]–[15:28]
• Listener Giovanni’s journey: [15:28]–[18:28]
• Taylor Swift Segment with Clint & Trey Fanjoy: [18:28]–[24:10]
• Alison Becker interviews on Divorce Ranches: [24:10]–[34:40]
• Closing thoughts: [34:06]–[35:16]

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Episode Mood and Tone

Consistently upbeat, silly, and celebratory, the episode maintains the signature higher-energy, trivia-loving tone of Go Fact Yourself. There is a warmth and genuine gratitude for fans (“We will love you so much for it!”), loads of playful humor, and moments of real geek joy—both from celebrity guests and everyday listeners. The team excels in highlighting both the fun and the meaningful impact of listener-supported community.

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Transcript

[A]

Foreign hello Helen.

[B]

Hello Jake.

[A]

And welcome everyone to this Max Fun Drive bonus mini episode of Go Fact yourself. Before we get to the fun footage we have, I have a bunch of fun announcements. First, this Saturday, March 29th at the center for Inquiry west in Los Angeles, we are live on stage with Tim Russ from Star Trek Voyager and Brianne Howey from Ginnian, Georgia. So excited for this show. Tickets are available right [e-mail] and of course it's the Max Fun Drive. And that means lots of fun gifts for you who have gone to maximumfun.org join to become a MaxFun member. You know, we're always looking for opportunities to say thank you with unique gifts that you can't get anywhere else and that allow you to get more involved with the show. We've already announced the listener tournament where all new upgrading and boosting members of our show can opt in to play some games all for the chance to be a guest on a full episode of Go Factor Self. And we announced a new incentive gift this year where if you prepay your annual membership, you can get a limited edition baseball card of Helen and me autographed by both of us. I've been designing it and I think it's going to be pretty cool. But now to sweeten the pot even more, here are two brand new gifts we're offering this year. First, as we record this, we're at about 250 new upgrading or boosting members. And thank you so much to to those 250 people and well, we really need to get up to our goal of 500 by Friday. But I'm sure you're wondering, are people who support us early in the Max Fund drive better or smarter than people who join later? Well, we intend to find out. If we reach our goal of 500 we will select up to 25 people from the first 250 and up to 25 people from the second 250 and pit them against each other in a Live on Zoom Trivia Spectacular courtesy of our friends at the Big Quiz Thing. You've heard us talk about the Big Quiz Thing, the live Trivia Spectacular. And now you could win a chance to play the game Live on Zoom, hosted by me, Jay Keith. The Big Quiz Thing, of course is the trivia provider of choice for the country's top companies and fundraising causes. They offer a unique game show experience playable online wherever you are. Now our selected players will enjoy a fully produced one hour team based trivia quiz show on any and all topics and and as always. If you want me to host a private trivia event just for you and your friends or co workers like a few of our listeners have, go to bigquizthing.com now. We're only going to do this if we reach our goal of 500 new upgrading or Boosting members. So please join now. Boost now or Upgrade Now. It's only a buck a month more to boost and believe me, that buck goes a long way towards helping the show. Next, our second reward we're offering, brand new for this year. You know we love having our listeners come to our live shows, but we know that not everyone can come out to California to be here for them. So for the first time ever, we're offering a live stream audio and video from one of our upcoming live stage shows exclusive to you, our new boosting or upgrading members. You'll be able to see an entire episode of GFY being made soup to nuts as it happens live on stage. You'll know who the surprise experts are weeks before the public does. Plus you'll see the full unedited show before we make it all nice for public radio. Now, we have never live streamed a live stage show before and this one will only be available to you, our MaxFun Drive supporters. It is our way of saying thank you. Remember, if you want in on any or all of these rewards, you must join Boost or Upgrade during the Max Fun Drive, which ends this Friday, March 28th. You do that by going to maximumfund.org join and selecting go Fact Yourself as a podcast you listen to. And yet, with all of that said, you know what my favorite part of the MaxFun drive is?

[B]

Helen, I bet you're going to say giving thanks to all of our listeners.

[A]

Well, you would be exactly right as usual. And one of the best ways that we do say thank you is with bonus content.

[B]

That's right, when you go to maximumfun.org join, you can sign up for a contribution at just $5 a month. That is the entry level price. And that gets you our most popular gift for listeners, the Bonus Content Library with hundreds, maybe even thousand of hours of special episodes from every show on the Max Fun Network.

[A]

And that includes Go Fact yourself, of course. In addition to our monthly GFY Extra showcase of moments that we didn't publish in the regular shows, we've also got full length episodes for you to enjoy as a Max Fun member.

[B]

And if you're listening to this and still on the fence about going to maximumfun.org join and signing up for a $5 monthly contribution. This mini episode is a little taste of what awaits you.

[A]

You're gonna hear pieces of Qu Max Fun hosts like Brea Grant, Clint McElroy and more.

[B]

And a bit of our bonus mini episode with a pair of listeners just like you. You could be a guest on a full episode of Go Fact Yourself if you join, Boost or Upgrade and enter our listener tournament.

[A]

Now you're also gonna hear some follow ups with some contestants whose dreams came true because of this show. Go Fact Yourself wouldn't exist without MaxFun members. So when you go to maximumfun.org join to just know it is you who are helping to make dreams come true.

[B]

With us and we will love you so much for it. Let's start this clip show with a bit from this year's Max Fun Boko, the original unaired pilot of Go Fact Yourself with Len Wein and Sarah Beninkasa.

[A]

So much has changed over the years since we recorded this, including our theme song, as you'll hear in a second.

[B]

Remember, the only way to hear the full versions of everything in this preview is to go to maximumfun.org join now.

[A]

Let's hear that defunct music.

[B]

Defuncty Y.

[A]

Let's get defuncty.

[B]

Are you a real know it all? Do you annoy your family by shouting the answers while watching Jeopardy? Do you drive people crazy when you start a sentence with well, actually. Well, guess what? You can go Fact Yourself.

[A]

Hi, everyone.

[B]

Welcome to Go Fact Yourself, the show where we take the smartest people we know and make them look dumb and then smart again. I'm Helen Hong and here's our moderator, J. Keith Van Stratten.

[A]

Hi, Helen. Hi, everybody. Thanks so much for coming out. Oh, bless your little hearts. Thank you so much. Thanks, Helen. Let's get right to it and meet today's guests. He is a comic book writer whose original creations include Swamp Thing, Human Target, and a little guy named Wolverine. Please welcome Mr. Len Wein.

[C]

Hello, everybody.

[A]

Hello, Len Wein.

[C]

Hello.

[A]

That's it? That's all you got?

[C]

Yeah. I'll see you guys later.

[A]

Oh, no. We've got 40 more minutes.

[C]

I just came for the parking spot.

[A]

Well done. Now, Len, you've created a lot of incredible comic book characters that have had a lot of longevity. What is the secret to creating a successful comic book character?

[C]

Having photos of your publishers in uncomfortable positions.

[A]

So blackmail, right?

[C]

No, I've been extraordinarily fortunate in that. I don't know. I'm always afraid if I figured it out, it'll stop. So I'M happy to keep just letting it go.

[A]

Okay. Have you ever had characters that maybe didn't do so well that you thought, oh, this one's going to be great. What are they going to load of this guy? And then not so much.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

He doesn't want to talk about it.

[A]

No, no, by all means, let's invite him here and bring up his failures.

[C]

Even that seems to be on the verge of becoming successful. I did a character for Marvel many years ago that I loved called Brother Voodoo. It got six issues then.

[B]

Oh, Brother Voodoo was not as good as Wolverine.

[C]

Well, I guess not in terms of the marketing at the time. But now, apparently, it's being developed as a show for Netflix or somewhere.

[A]

So even when it doesn't go well, it ends up going well. And we. Ladies and gentlemen, he can't help but be successful. All right, let's. Let's meet our next guest. She's a comedian and author whose books include Real Artists have Day Jobs. Please welcome Sarah Benincasa. Hi, guys. Hi, Sarah.

[D]

How you doing?

[A]

I'm doing very well, thank you. It's nice when a guest asks how I'm doing.

[B]

Yeah, well, I want to know.

[A]

You brought us all here for this.

[E]

Quiz show, and I'm excited about it.

[A]

And I want to make sure you're.

[D]

Emotionally feeling checked in.

[A]

Okay, hold on, let me.

[B]

That's so thoughtful of you.

[A]

Wow. Am I feeling.

[B]

Sarah is better than a therapist, which is good, because I can't afford one. Hi, Sarah.

[C]

I didn't care that much.

[B]

I'm sorry. You gave us Wolverine. You're forgiven.

[A]

Yeah, that's true. You got a lot of leeway on that. All right. Now, we're here today to discuss areas of your interest and expertise. We asked you before the show to pick three topics that you know a lot about, one of which we'll ask you about later. Now, Sarah, you told us your areas of expertise were headspace, which is a meditation app. St Catherine Benincasa of Siena, who I understand is a namesake of yours, and ASMR videos, which, for those who don't know, are videos that have sounds that stimulate a tingling sensation in the brains of some people. I just want to point out that a lot of us in the room are probably geeks.

[D]

I would think that's probably at one extent or another. Did you hear the laughter of derision about the ASMR?

[A]

YouTube world is like the. The geeks of, like, the dorks of.

[D]

The YouTube world that everybody else is like, you sit at table nine.

[C]

You're not Our friends.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I didn't think it was derision. I thought it was appreciation.

[A]

Yeah, that's what I heard. I think people were impressed.

[D]

Perhaps it was.

[A]

Well, we'll see if that's the one that we talk to you about later. Len, you mentioned three topics that I have heard of before.

[B]

That was derision. I guess that was derision.

[A]

Benevolent derision, I believe, is my brand. Len, you told us you know a lot about Broadway musicals, the Twilight Zone and TV theme songs. Yes, two of which, I think combine very nicely into one topic. For instance, if you're watching the Twilight Zone, you're doing a musical. No, I don't know. It would be the theme song. So later on, we'll ask each of you some in depth questions about one of those topics. All right, Brie, you did well in that round. But now here is your expert level question that requires multiple answers. It is time for your cluster fact.

[B]

Y'.

[A]

All. This audience is Liddy. It is. We'll be bringing on an expert to discuss your response. Okay, Bria. In 2022, a novel was a finalist for perhaps the most prestigious science fiction award there is. That novel features an Asian American transgender protagonist, a pact with the devil, violin making, and a donut shop run by aliens in the San Gabriel Valley. And it was named as a New York Public Library Top 10 Book of the Year for up to three points. For which award, presented annually since 1955, was the novel nominated? What is the title of this novel, and who is the novel's author?

[D]

I mean, I'm guessing a Hugo Award.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Light From Uncommon Stars.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And if this person is here, I'm really sorry, because I can't remember how to pronounce the name.

[D]

But I know how it's spelled.

[A]

You can spell the name. We'll see.

[B]

R Y, K Aoki.

[A]

R Y, K, A Aoki. All right, well, Helen is taking note of those answers. We have an expert on hand who can tell us for sure. Helen, who do we have tonight?

[B]

Joining us tonight is a poet, composer, teacher, and novelist whose book Light From Uncommon Stars was nominated for and received several awards. It's Rika Aoki.

[A]

Rika Aoki, come on out. Hello, Rika. You can say hello to our guest, though, as well.

[C]

A huge fan of yours.

[A]

So fan girl later. Hello, Rika. Thank you so much for joining us.

[C]

So glad to be here.

[A]

You could not see when you were backstage, but as soon as we started reading the question, Bria's face completely lit up.

[B]

So did several glasses in the audience. The glasses in the audience were like, oh, my gosh.

[C]

I am just so happy. I'm just thrilled. When I first wrote this book, I thought to myself, who's gonna be interested in the San Gabriel Valley? But it's just hit so many people. So thank you. Thank you for all the work.

[A]

I want to point out that in addition to the award that we'll talk about later, it was a finalist for the Locust Award, the Ignite Award, and Dragon Award. It was a winner of the Alex Award. The Stonewall Book Award is a national LA Times Bestseller, a Kirkus Best Book, a Barnes and Noble Bestseller, Science Fiction Book of the Year, a New York Public Library Top 10 Book of the Year, and I believe a Reading glasses Book of the Year winner as well.

[B]

Yeah, it's a reading glasses book of year.

[A]

Really underwhelmed.

[B]

I know that you mentioned that this book is about the San Gabriel Valley, but let's not forget the pact with the devil and the violin making.

[A]

Come on, come on. I think everything in the San Gabriel Valley is a pact with the devil, but that's a whole other issue.

[C]

You can't write about the San Gabriel Valley with some mom making a pact with the devil on the violins. Anyway.

[A]

Well, what's so interesting, in addition to now being a prominent author in this field, you're a big fan of this genre that we have you as an expert in.

[C]

Absolutely.

[A]

And you were telling me the other day that you said it's a great time to be a science fiction reader. Why is that?

[C]

Oh, my gosh. So what's been happening in science fiction is editors and readers and the community have been voicing themselves through social media to make their hunger for new writers with different viewpoints, different modes of family, different expressions of sexuality, personhood. They want to see stories about this. The field has opened up spectacularly. If you look at the last group of finalists for the Hugo Award, I think, like, everyone's some kind of queer. Probably end up, like, seeing them. I wouldn't be surprised at running into any of them at Pride. And that was something that was unheard of just a few years ago.

[A]

Very, very cool one. I think that's great about your work is you're part of this vanguard of better reflecting the trans community in especially science fiction. Can you talk a little bit about how trans people had been depicted in science fiction before this era?

[C]

I think that's the whole thing. A passive. How have they been depicted? And they've been sort of exoticized, and they've been seen as other. They've been Seen as something interesting, something that is to be studied, objectified. Objectified. That's that one.

[A]

A very special episode.

[C]

And I think that I was watching Star Next Generation where there was this big thing about Riker figuring out, you know, this gender neutral character and kind of falling in love and questioning and, you know, I don't know, for some people, that's Star the Next Generation. For me, that's a normal date. Where trans voices are and queer voices are right now, I think, is a great leaping off point for readerships who want to know what comes next.

[A]

And remember, these are all just regular listeners like you listening right now who took the extra step to support us in the Max Fund Drive. Please join [e-mail] Join it's an awful lot of work to put the show.

[D]

Together, that's for sure.

[A]

Oh, yeah, that shows, huh? It does. It does.

[D]

It gives you a new appreciation to actually see it in action.

[A]

So that was good.

[D]

So, yeah, so it was great to see the guests on the show, to see Jason and Joel, Nicole and to hear about their things that they loved.

[A]

Why on earth would you want to listen to and support a show like Go fak yourself?

[D]

Because first of all, it's very funny. And second of all, I love game shows. So I love anything that has to do with trivia and hearing all the stories of all the contestants and the experts that come on. It's just. It's a very entertaining show. It's my ride home show.

[E]

So it's impression.

[A]

And for our listeners who maybe are thinking whether they should be a new or upgrading or boosting member in the Max Fund Drive in the future, what would you want to tell them?

[D]

You know, I thought a lot about it. This was the first year that I'd.

[A]

Given and I hadn't really thought about.

[D]

It before and I thought, you know.

[A]

I really love this show so much.

[D]

And I want to keep it going.

[A]

And that's the best way you can show your support is financially.

[E]

So keep it going.

[B]

Aw, thank you so much.

[A]

Well, that's very, very sweet. We appreciate it very much. And welcome to the Max Fun Family.

[B]

Giovanni, thank you for being a fan and a supporter and it's so great to have you. And you got to see how the sausage is made.

[E]

I sure did. It was a lot of fun.

[A]

Yeah. You've got a big smile on your face and we really appreciate that. I know it was a bit of a. This was a bit of a longer record than we usually have, as you know, it gets edited down to about an hour 10, hour 15. I'm curious, as someone who's listened to our show for a long time, but it's the first time seeing how it's made. What were some of your impressions and maybe revelations, I was surprised that there's.

[E]

Things that always sound so spontaneous and kind of seeing that sometimes you have to do some takes on some of the questions and stuff, but in the edit, I don't feel anything is lost when it comes through. Like, it feels very live, even though it is a zoom recording.

[A]

I want to find out a little bit more about yourself and why you choose to support the show, which we're so grateful for. So tell us about what you're up to in Tampa, Florida.

[E]

I've been a Max Fund listener for, I mean, I think, almost 15 years now.

[A]

Wow.

[E]

I've long worked in, like, IT support, and so coming from somebody who was a public radio nerd podcast for, like, a Natural Transition, and for me, it started with Jordan Jessico, and then I started discovering a lot of the other great shows on the platform on the network, and when I finally was in the financial position to be able to help, you know, show my support, I decided to start doing that. And through my love of Max Fund is how I discovered. Go fact yourself. I think I pretty much heard about you guys from, like, the very first few episodes as they were doing the promos on the network, and. Oh, goodness. It's just you guys are one of the reasons that I'm so glad to be a supporter and listener of maximum fun. You bring a lot of enjoyment and just. Yeah, keep it up.

[A]

Oh, that's very kind.

[E]

Spreading the joy and spreading some knowledge, too.

[A]

Dirty secret of the show is you might actually learn something. But shh. Don't tell anyone. All right, Ella and Clint, we asked each of you to provide us with a few topics outside your field of work that you know and love. Ella, for you, you said that was Greek gods and goddesses, Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet and Taylor Swift.

[D]

Yes.

[A]

Whereas for you, Clint, you said that you know and love the musical Guys and Dolls, the TV show, Star Trek, the Animated series, and fantasy football. Some very diverse topics today. Now, Clint, do listen closely, because if Ella answers incorrectly, somehow you could steal. By the way, Clint, how much do you know about Taylor Swift? I've actually met and interviewed her.

[B]

What? What? Clint, what do you mean? Wait, Clint, what do you mean?

[A]

When she. She was country, and I used to work at a country radio station, and we went to Nashville before the CMA Awards, and I got A picture. I'll try to find it and send it to you.

[B]

Yes, please do.

[A]

Please. Yes. Wait, wait, no, I'm sorry, who? Here's question number one. Taylor Swift, already one of the most recognizable people on the planet, was seen by over 200 million Americans on February 11th of this year. Looking on as her boyfriend Travis Kelce played in what event? The Super Bowl. Helen.

[B]

That is correct.

[A]

That is correct for the point. Very nice. Fun fact. Despite cranks complaining that the game coverage showed her too much, Taylor's total screen time was about 55 seconds on a CBS broadcast that was 4 hours and 18 minutes long. Plus, you know, she's Taylor Swift. Helen, I understand you have a bonus fun fact.

[B]

Oh, yes, yes. Weirdly enough, it was also being shown on Nickelodeon, the children's channel, because the parent company of CBS is obviously trying to groom the next, you know, generation of football fans. And so I was watching at the party that I was at, the big screen was on cbs and then there was a small iPad next to it that was playing Nickelodeon and she was all over the Nickelodeon broadcast. I mean, I wish I'd watched that instead. Seriously. I kept looking over and every time I looked at the Nickelodeon broadcast, there she was. And I was like, can we put the Nickelodeon on the big screen instead?

[A]

Yeah. So if your crazy uncle was complaining about seeing too much Taylor Swift, you can tease him for having watched Nickelodeon for that broadcast.

[B]

Joining us tonight from Nashville, Tennessee is an award winning director whose vast body of work includes several music videos for Taylor Swift. It's Trey Fanjoy. What?

[D]

Hi. Oh my gosh.

[B]

Hi.

[D]

Hi. Ella.

[E]

Hi, Helen, Jesse.

[B]

Hi, Trey.

[A]

Wonderful to have you join us. Thank you so much.

[D]

Excited.

[A]

Ella is. This is so cool.

[E]

Well, I'm so excited to meet you, Ella, because when you said that your 12 year old self was just obsessed. I'm. That's obsessed. You were the person that I was making all those videos for.

[A]

I cannot tell you the number of.

[B]

Times I watched White Horse in particular, like as a. Well, yeah, I must have been about 13 or 14.

[A]

Just over and over and over.

[B]

And all of those like first crushes.

[A]

And first loves and all of those like, like early experiences of those feelings are just soundtracked by Taylor Swift songs. Yeah.

[B]

Particularly from that first album in just.

[A]

Like such a special way. She really just like defined my adolescence. And yeah, that White Horse music video is, I, I know it like frame for frame. It's just, it's so good.

[E]

Okay, now, now here's something interesting that I can share with you because when you Talk about white Horse. It triggers a big memory. And she was always very involved in the videos. We would have long discussions about even just discussions about props, wardrobe, all of it.

[B]

And that's probably what's led her to directing her own videos now. Now she directs her own videos and movies and stuff because she was paying so much attention.

[E]

Yeah, she's. She's extraordinarily bright. We were working on Tim McGraw and there's a whole lost scene that is just. The cinematography is beyond stunning. So the actual story in Tim McGraw, they end up going for a midnight swim, a little in the moonlight. And we actually had a full moon. We were shooting, and we had lights that floated over the water in this lake. It was on Johnny Cash's property. And so she. And the boy goes for a swim and he kisses her in the water and she kind of pushes him away. And it's just kind of the, you know, as the summer love, you know, like as it, you know, if you, if you recall the video, she's performing in the autumn and the fall, and then, you know, flashback. We see this moment that happened, you know, at the end of the summer, and so everybody's really happy with it. But Taylor calls me and she said she wanted to cut that scene.

[A]

Hmm.

[E]

And she felt like for her audience, she didn't want it to look like they were having sex.

[A]

Interesting.

[E]

I said, taylor, it doesn't look anything like that. You know, I mean, she. At that point, she was so innocent, you know. I said, yeah, it doesn't look. And you know, she said something that was so incredibly bright. She said, well, I don't know that. And my fan base won't either.

[D]

Wow.

[E]

She knew how young that fan base was. And she felt like that scene was just. And it was just. It's ridiculously gorgeous.

[A]

And our first follow up interview is here in person. It's actor and comedian Allison Becker. Hi, Alison.

[D]

Hi, everybody.

[A]

Hey. Let's hear a little bit from Alison's episode where we introduced her expert here.

[B]

With us tonight is a teacher of history at Stanford University who earned a Mellon grant to write her honors thesis on divorce ranches in 20th century Nevada. It's Theresa Eicher.

[A]

Teresa Eicher.

[D]

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. I'm so excited you're here.

[B]

I can tell.

[A]

I can really tell. Yeah. I was gonna say, between the two of you, who would be most excited to finally be able to talk about this with another human being?

[B]

I don't know.

[D]

I think it's a tie.

[B]

Yeah. It definitely is one of the weirdest topics that we've ever had on Specific.

[D]

Probably specific.

[B]

And, like, I knew nothing about it.

[A]

Yeah. I had never even heard of it. You know, we've done 50 plus shows. I would say maybe three or four topics that people have mentioned as a potential are ones where I literally knew absolutely nothing about it. And so it was fun for me to. And for Jim. Well, I had heard of it. You had heard of it. Okay.

[C]

Bragging.

[A]

Yes. But it was fun for me to just do a deep dive into this and just realize how interesting and cool it was.

[B]

Divorce Ranch.

[A]

Yeah, Divorce Ranches. And I think one of the things I love so much about the segment is that every once in a while you get a meeting of both guest and expert where they're so happy to talk to somebody else about this thing that they love that they don't often get to share. So let's just go back a little bit and talk about that. And usually, let me. Usually when someone gets really excited about their expert, it's someone who is famous already, and that's why they're excited. Like, if we brought on Bon Jovi, which is one of your other topics, we probably would have enjoyed that as well.

[D]

Do you know Bon Jovi?

[A]

We investigated that as a possibility.

[B]

You were living on a prayer about it.

[A]

This is the most excited anyone's ever gotten about an academic. Yeah. Which thrills me. So let's go back and talk about that. So just remind everyone, what were the topics that you had given us to choose from?

[D]

Oh, gosh. If I remember correctly, there was Divorce Ranch is obviously Bon Jovi. And I think the other one was either Seinfeld episodes.

[A]

Seinfeld, yeah.

[D]

But I also talked about cults. I also am really interested in cults.

[A]

Yeah, We've done a couple cult segments since then. Which one did you think that we were going to pick?

[D]

I really thought it was gonna be Bon Jovi because I was like, oh, they can get, like, a musician or, like. And kind of going off what you said, I knew you were gonna bring an expert in. And I was like, well, there's no way they're gonna get a Divorce Ranch expert. Cause there's only, like, two of them. And I've already spoken with them, so I just assumed it was gonna be, like, a music historian and it was gonna be a banjo.

[A]

If I recall, you had a very strong reaction to when we actually said that that was the topic that you were choosing. I think it was. What?

[B]

I think that was my reaction.

[D]

Yeah, I think it was like.

[A]

It was a lot of them also. A what? Yeah. So tell us about who your expert was and what it was like meeting her and being on the show with her.

[D]

Well, you brought out Theresa Eicher, who wrote her thesis on divorce ranches. And because I've done such a deep dive into this topic, like I said, there's only like a couple of quote unquote experts, and I think I may even be one of them at this point. And, you know, I kind of have done enough research to know who most people in this world are, and I hadn't heard of Theresa or met her yet. So like you said, just finding someone else who was so. Who had done such a deep dive into this, such a specific topic, was just exhilarating because you finally get to nerd out with somebody and talk and you're finally in a position where you're not just explaining it. Because whenever I do talk about it, people want to hear about it, but it's usually me just explaining it. And it's not a back and forth. And we could finally have a back and forth. And that was really exciting.

[B]

I love it.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And the reason you hadn't heard of her, I think, is she's very young. She had just gotten her master's degree and this was her thesis and she's now working on her PhD.

[D]

Exactly. And I think she's going to be well known in her field soon because she's really a rock star.

[B]

And I just remember, even on stage, in front of the crowd. You guys, we have to talk more. Give me your number. You have to give me your number.

[D]

We had like every. The rest of the meals at the weekend we had together. Like, we just really enjoyed talking through each other. Oh, I love that.

[A]

And it was so great for us also because, you know, we used to record the shows in la. These were up at Lake Arrowhead. And so just who could we get to come? And the fact that Jim found Theresa, I guess, through her Stanford website and somehow convince her to drive down from Northern California to be with us, it didn't take much convincing. Yeah, I mean, she wants to talk about this as much as Alison does, so I mean, I was thrilled that she came down for it.

[B]

That's so true. Cause my thing would be like Star Trek tng and there's like a few hundred thousand people that I could talk Star Trek TNG with, but you literally only have like four, like a small handful that you could go deep with on this topic.

[D]

Exactly.

[B]

Wow. And then have you hung out with her since?

[D]

We haven't hung out in person. We've been very connected on email. And she's supposed to come to LA soon. I mean, my dream is still to go to Reno, Nevada, with her. Reno's the kind of the center of the divorce ranch world, or used to be, when they were still active. And I just want to go there with her and nerd out and, like, go through the city records with her. Oh, wow. And check it all out and go to the sites where the ranches used to be in the Riverside Hotel. So that would still be a dream, and I hope we can do that.

[A]

And I know you've been trying to interview people who were around during that time, and Theresa helped you connect with somebody.

[D]

Theresa connected me to Mary Lou Norton, who's one of the last living women who attended a divorce ranch. She was there in 1951. I believe she's now 94. Wow. She lives in Phoenix, Arizona. And I had kind of had peripheral contact with her a few years ago, but then Teresa was really able to solidify that, and I'm very grateful for that. And I flew out to Phoenix and I brought my friend, and she brought her camera, and we interviewed Mary Lou. And I was. By the end of that interview, I was in tears, and I was like, I love you. And Mary Lou was like, I love you, too.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[D]

And she's just an incredible woman as well. She's just a tiny, beautiful, intelligent, dynamic woman who is now a painter and used to be a singer and, like, played one of her songs that she recorded at Capitol Records for me. And she just has had the most incredible life. And I met two of her sons, one of which was 4 years old, and she brought him to the divorce ring.

[A]

What?

[D]

Oh, wow. So he was telling me his memories as well, and. Yeah. So I still want to pitch this whole thing as a television show.

[A]

Yeah, I was gonna ask you about that. You'd mentioned that on the show that the reason that you got so into this is because you wanted to develop a show. Where are you with that project?

[D]

It's hard. People don't want to buy a period drama because it's expensive. Right. Yet you look at television and, like, 90% of the things on are like period drama. So I'm like, guys, come on, let's do this. But I am not giving up. And I'm also thinking about doing it as a documentary now, either potentially a short documentary, if only to have a piece of tape to sell the show with. So that's why I recorded my interview with Mary Lynn.

[B]

Oh, that's great. Does she know anyone else that maybe is still alive from that time?

[D]

She knows a couple of historians, but I don't think she still keeps in touch with anyone because unfortunately, most of them have passed because, like I said, she's in her 90s.

[B]

Right.

[D]

So, I mean, some of the kids who were there would still be alive.

[B]

Right.

[D]

But the divorcing women and the. You know, I know that the, like, den mother, like, the woman who ran the ranch, the couple that owned the ranch, the wife ran it. I know they've since passed, but.

[B]

Oh, my God. If there's anybody out there who's listening, who's a Max Fun fan and can help facilitate making this into a TV show, this would be so compelling because there's a. There's a great feminist angle. There's a great, like, misogynistic oppression of the times angle. And, like, women really, like, you know, finding themselves through this horrible thing that happened.

[E]

And.

[B]

And I think it would be so compelling and so interesting. And, like, just hearing you talk about it, I was like, wait, what?

[A]

And for people who aren't into that, there's cowboys.

[D]

There's cowboys. Exactly. And what we didn't learn from, you know, American television, who, shockingly got it wrong, there were a lot of African American cowboys as well. And also there were a lot of Native Americans who worked on the ranch. So there's a lot of history from different groups of people that could really be finally given a voice in a show like this. Plus, it would just be, like, fun.

[B]

Yeah. Wow.

[A]

I think it's so cool because, you know, we never know when someone gives us a topic, someone says, oh, I know a lot about this. Whether it's something that, oh, yeah, I read a book about that once. Or if they're as hyper into it as you are, which I say is a compliment. And so it's really great to be able to bring that out on stage and also to see that you've continued to learn more about it, we could probably give you a harder quiz about it now and have you still do just as well.

[D]

I hope so.

[B]

You probably are one of the experts in the field at this point.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And intuitive. Intentionally. But I really am.

[B]

Do you know if Theresa is. What's she doing her PhD on?

[D]

The men's right movement. The men's rights movement, which evidently, and I, from what I understand from her, has its roots in the 1960s divorce era, because men were annoyed that they were, quote, Unquote, losing their rights because they were losing their money in divorces. So then this, yeah, this, this sorry, awful group of people came about which now they're, you know, a lot of them are very extreme. Right. Shockingly.

[A]

Well, we'll have Teresa back if that comes up as a topic again. We have repeated an expert before. We're not ashamed to do it, but.

[D]

I'm fascinated to read her research on it.

[A]

Anytime we put out there that we're looking for a topic, it seems to come up. So, yeah. Awesome. Allison, is there anything else you'd like to share about your experience that you remember that we didn't cover?

[D]

Just that it was you just, it's never, you know, it's so unexpected to meet someone you have so much in common with and connect. So like always talk to, talk, talk to strangers. If you're not a child, talk to strangers because you'd be surprised the things you can connect with on people, connect with from people and it's really exciting.

[A]

And I would think, I would add also like, don't be embarrassed about what you love and what you're interested in and passionate about, you know, because you never know what it's going to lead to.

[D]

Exactly.

[A]

So we're so glad that you brought that up and we're so glad that you joined us again today. Thank you all so much. Thank you. Alison.

[B]

Did that whet your appetite? Hungry for more? Go fact yourself then ever.

[A]

Well, the full meal, the full smorgasbord of BOCO awaits [e-mail] join that is the place to be.

[B]

Become a Max Fund member and help us continue to deliver even more of this show.

[A]

We'll be back with more content, more bonuses, more rewards towards more fun stuff coming up later. In the meantime, Happy Max Fun Drive Maximum Fun, a worker owned network of.

[B]

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