← Good Inside with Dr. Becky
Good Inside with Dr. Becky
The Future of Fatherhood: Raising Boys and Ourselves
00:22:54
Explore how shifting gender roles are reshaping how we raise boys and redefine modern fatherhood in today's evolving world.
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- [00:00]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
We all say we want to raise emotionally intelligent men, but how do we actually do that? What if the way we raise boys and support dads could reshape our entire culture? I recently had the honor of closing out the Future of Fatherhood summit hosted by Moms first and Ewimondo. It was a really powerful gathering of policymakers, researchers, dads, moms, business leaders, and cultural voices. And everyone was asking deep questions about modern fatherhood at work, at home, in our policies, and in ourselves. My session was called Raising Boys and Ourselves. It was one of my favorite conversations I've ever had, moderated by Maggie McGrath, editor of Forbes Women. We talked about the early signs of toxic masculinity, why repair matters so much for dads, and what it means to approach parenting the way you might approach coaching a kid in basketball, with presence, patience and skill building that only happens over time. Since we've been talking a lot about fatherhood here on the podcast, I wanted to keep that conversation going. And so here it is, my live session from the summit, just for you. I hope you hear something that shifts the way you think about parenting, fatherhood, or even yourself. With that in mind, let's jump in. I'm Dr. Becky and this is Good Inside will be back right after this. I remember when my own kids were learning to use the potty. So many mixed emotions. Pride, stress, excitement and lots of mess.
- [01:45]
Maggie McGrath
It really is a process.
- [01:47]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
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- [02:49]
Moderator
Please welcome Dr. Becky Kennedy and Maggie McGrath. It is so important to to talk about raising emotionally healthy children and to talk about it tactically and practically and there is no better person to do that with than Dr. Becky. So, yes, please. So your work really focuses on raising emotionally healthy children. What unique challenges do you see parents facing specifically when it comes to raising boys?
- [03:24]
Maggie McGrath
So, first of all, thank you all for being here. This topic has really been on my heart for a while. So, you know, I think I've been thinking a lot about these phrases we say all the time and how different they are for boys and girls. Be a good girl, don't be a bad boy. They're like, so in our cultural ether. So if we focus on the boy, I think there's problems with kind of both phrases that we lock our kids into. But I think about how often boys can get labeled bad boys. Like, there's, ah, did you hear Bobby's in our preschool class this year? Like, he's such a bad boy. Always getting sent out out of class. And big picture, we are our kids mirrors our kids form their identity by the version of themselves we reflect back to them. So think about that. A kid is growing up, they're always asking essentially to their parent without asking, who am I? How should I think about myself? That phrase, bad boy. We should never be surprised that when we give a kid a bad kid identity, that they only act out more. One of the things that I think is just critical to know about boys and girls, but it's really important, I think when we think about this for boys and that bad boy label, kids are born with all the feelings and none of the skills to manage feelings. All bad behavior is, is a situation where feelings overpower skills. I mean, we can all be honest about our own latest bad moment. Like, why did I yell at my husband yesterday? Why did I act in a way that I'm not proud of? At a restaurant when they told me they were out of some special. And you know, well, my feelings, even as an adult in that moment, were bigger than my skills. When we respond to all of our boys acting out by telling they're a bad kid, sending them to their room, just punishing them. I don't know any area of life where punishing has ever built skills. I just don't think any of us in our workplaces are like, oh, I'm gonna teach this associate what to do by sending them to their room and taking away their phone for a week. Like, that doesn't do anything. If you think about that gap, the problem isn't the feelings. The problem isn't even the behaviors, because all the behaviors are. Are a manifestation of feelings without skills. The problem is that kids are Born without the emotion regulation skills, they need to match the feelings and then have better behavior. Which is why at Good Inside, we're very big on skill based parenting. Parenting is a skill. Kids need skills. And the best news about skills is is it's never too late to learn them.
- [06:08]
Moderator
You and I were talking about how blame culture and anger culture can show up in young boys a lot sooner than any of us might actually predict or realize. What are the signs parents should be looking for? And also, are there ways to counteract that behavior?
- [06:24]
Maggie McGrath
Yeah, thank you for that question. Such a good one. Toxic masculinity is a phrase I just hear a lot. Like, it's in the media, it's in the news.
- [06:33]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
Right.
- [06:33]
Maggie McGrath
I don't think any of us want that. None of us are like, I want my boys to be toxically male, whatever that even means. Right. We're not trying for that. And I think too often we talk about things as if they just pop up or like you catch them on the subway when you're like 18, right. And to me, it's very empowering to think, well, are there signs of that pattern early on or are there opportunities to kind of avoid that outcome? When I think about that phrase toxic masculinity, it is kind of like the only feelings as a young man I'm allowed to express our anger and blame at others. Right. And where I see this very early and again, where I think I'm so heartened by the opportunity to intervene is in sports culture with young boys. I don't know if any of you have kids who live in the city. I do. I go to Basketball city where there's like, you know, I don't know, 12 basketball games going on at once, boys and girls. And it just was interesting this last winter season. I kept hearing these boys would lose their games. And often I didn't hear this from the girls teams. That ref was awful. That ref was awful. That other team fouled so much. If only my teammate had passed me the ball, it was a layup, I would have made it. And here's what I think is really happening. A boy is actually trying to say, I feel disappointed that we lost. And instead of feeling that feeling in my body, I'm just gonna vomit it out and look for someone to point my finger at and blame. That is toxic masculinity. That's what it is. I don't wanna feel uncomfortable. Who did this discomfort to me? Whose fault is it that I'm frustrated? Whose fault is it that I'm sad? Who put this feeling in my body because it can't be mine, because I was raised in a way to think I shouldn't have feelings, so someone must have poisoned me. And so the part of this I find remarkably optimistic because I really am like an optimist about this, is how amazing at the end of a basketball game, when a kid says this, a mom or really my heart beats fast, I think about a dad looking at Bobby and just saying, ugh, it stinks when you lose the game or you wish you had the ball at the end of the game. And they say back, yeah, because the ref, Ugh. When I was seven in lost games, I also felt really disappointed. Instead of taking a feeling and reiterating that it lives outside you as something someone put into you, you're lightly orienting them back to this is actually your feeling and it's safe to live in your body because if I can see it as something that's real inside you, over time you will learn to have that capacity as well.
- [09:17]
Moderator
That's a really good tactic to apply. Yes, you can clap for that.
- [09:27]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
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- [10:07]
Moderator
I think over the course of this afternoon, we've heard the phrase cycle breaking quite a bit. But I want to lean into this even more because I hear this. Come up with my friends who are parents about the models that they had. And so, Dr. Becky, what patterns have you observed in how parents and dads own upbringings can affect their approach to raising children, and especially sons?
- [10:30]
Maggie McGrath
The first thing that comes to mind, good inside, like our whole company, like everything we do, is based on the idea that parenting doesn't come naturally. Parenting is a skill, I think, especially women. We're told there's a maternal instinct. No wonder no children in the room. No wonder we feel like shit when it's hard. Because if something's instinct and it's hard, the only answer is that we're broken, right? And in general, the only thing that comes naturally when it comes to parenting is how you were parented. It's like being raised in English and wanting to teach your kids Mandarin and speak to them in Mandarin. I don't think anyone in this room would be like, mandarin's going to come naturally. No, you would have to learn it and practice it. And in your hardest stressful moments, guess what language you would speak? English. That doesn't mean the Mandarin's not working. You'd recover and go back to Mandarin. If you want to be a father who sits by your son and says, I'd be disappointed too, it makes sense you feel sad about that. And if in your head you're clocking, my dad literally would have never said that to me. That would be actually laughable right then that moment is not going to come naturally. What's going to come naturally, even if you don't want it to, is some version of stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about if that's what your dad said to you. And that doesn't make you a monster. It actually makes you an amazing cycle breaking dad that you want to learn a new language so that new language comes naturally for your son one day. That's an incredible thing. And I think if we think about parenting as a language and as a skill, then the cycle breaking aspect of it. I want to be there emotionally. I want to play with my kid, right? I want to be involved in conversations like who my son has a crush on. I want to talk to my kid about porn, because if I don't, he's only going to find out about it from the random 17 year old on the bus and he's going to explore it online, which is more ubiquitous than ever in a total, totally different way than when I was growing up. And if I want to do that, and I would say in my head, yeah, that is so not what happened from my dad. Being a cycle breaker involves learning and practice and tolerating a ton of awkwardness. Because that awkwardness is actually not a sign you're doing something wrong. It's a sign you're doing something totally new.
- [12:56]
Moderator
Now. Men have often been shamed for the way they show up as parents. We were talking backstage about the complaining that can happen, like, he didn't do this or he did this, but not as well as I could do. My dad actually had a phrase that he taught to me and my brother. Daddies do it differently because I would always complain when my dad did something differently than my mom. But how that was in our household. How can we collectively reframe this for dads so we can create a healthier parenthood and fatherhood.
- [13:26]
Maggie McGrath
Yeah. So this is coming at a great time because I actually was just talking to my own husband about this. And, you know, we have a lot of conversations about parenting. You know, we both work full time. You know, we talk a lot about the mental load and, you know, like, how I'm thinking about the camp schedule or the soccer schedule for October. And I know on whatever day in July, if I don't sign up in 30 seconds, like, he's not gonna make the soccer team, and that's exhausting. And he doesn't have to think about that. And maybe he took our kid to soccer, but he's not actually, like, signing up for soccer. All of that, by the way, I just wanna say, is completely real and important. And he said something that I didn't expect that really hit me, that he feels like when he thinks about his dad, he is doing so much more than his dad did. And yet the treadmill seems to be, like, moving even faster. Like, he's like, you think dads that I grew up around were at, were doing carpools, that they were cooking, that they were doing, even if I didn't know the nap schedule that I was putting down for nap, Like. Like, there's a generation of dads that are doing so much more than their dads are doing. And I think a lot of the messages they get is, it's still not enough. Now, at good inside, we say two things are true. Those can both be true. But the insight I really had is if the bar is over here, the way you get more out of anybody is never starting with all the things they're not doing. It always starts with recognizing what they are doing. We can be right or we can be effective. We can rarely be both. Yes, that is marital advice. You could take that with you. I always learn that the hard way. And I think what's effective, right, is starting with. And here's a question, actually. If you are a dad to think about, and if you know a dad in your life or if your partner's a dad, maybe you can think about. So for the dads here, what is something I do as a dad that my own dad never did with me? And if you know a dad or if you have a husband, what is something my husband does as a dad that I know his dad would have never done? And it doesn't mean we don't have another loud thought, but he still doesn't do this again. We have to as actually a world be better at holding multiplicity and not having singular truths. Right, but that's a really important starting point for a conversation rather than. But okay, you took all the kids to soccer and did a carpool, but you didn't know that Jimmy needed new cleats. Even if I want him to be in charge of that, it's probably going to be more effective in saying, like, you took the whole carpool to soccer. My guess is no dad in your entire lineage has spent their Saturday afternoon doing that. And I just. I want to say thank you. That is. That is cycle breaking in your own right. And no one ever has gone from here in one generation to here. And the way we move the needle a little is not starting from a place of fault, but probably starting from a place of strength and capability.
- [16:35]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
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- [17:12]
Maggie McGrath
A whole lot easier.
- [17:13]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
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- [17:28]
Moderator
So what I heard in that example was doing that on a case by case, incident by incident basis. Right? Like every time there is a carpool or every time the dad does something, or is it like a monthly check in or a weekly check in? What's the cadence?
- [17:41]
Maggie McGrath
Yeah, I mean, I know for me, I just think this is true in all relationships. I think we are. We're wired to notice what's not done. It's why even back in the day when you're like, I think I failed that math test and like you didn't, you just remember the questions that were hard in a different way than the questions you got right? So we're all wired to think about the things that people in our life aren't doing. And anything that is done, we just don't register in our body the same way. And again, I think this is another thing that we can think of as a skill. It doesn't come Naturally, always to say nice, appreciative things to your partner. I'm sorry I'm laughing. I just don't think it does. Especially when you're raising kids together. It's just easy to be like, you didn't do this. You didn't do this. Oh, and then all of a sudden, you're keeping score. Like, you did soccer four times. But I did lacrosse. But you like lacrosse, so it doesn't count that you did lacrosse. And people are often like, becky, you're so good at acting. I'm like, these are just my thoughts, obviously. And so none of us have this down. But, yeah, I just think a check in, right? I mean, a kind of daily, I appreciate this thing you did. Hey, I think I often talk to you about all the things you're not doing right as a dad. And, like, I did take a moment. I want to tell you, like, here's the things I see you doing that I think are probably new and different, and I just forget the other side of it. I just appreciate that. That's just. That's helpful for fatherhood, that's helpful for motherhood, that's helpful for your marriage. Like, what an amazing thing for your kids to see. Oh, a partnership can look like once in a while, people saying nice things to other. So, yeah, I think it could do in whatever language. And some people like it over text. They're like, I feel awkward doing it. Great. If a little bit of distance and text.
- [19:14]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
I was just thinking about.
- [19:15]
Maggie McGrath
This is an easier way to do it. Let's lower the barrier to kind of leading with appreciation and again, kind of bringing out the good inside each other in that way.
- [19:26]
Moderator
I love that the words I appreciate you are so powerful. There have been a lot of practical takeaways in what you've said, but if there's one overarching big takeaway for the audience for how they can start the work of raising emotionally healthy boys and also supporting the dads in their home, what is it?
- [19:43]
Maggie McGrath
I often get very nuanced. I don't like to be boxed in kind of answers to questions. But when I think about the one thing, when everyone's like, is there one takeaway or one thing I could do Today? I actually have. I feel crystal clear in what that could be. To me, there's no more important relationship strategy in the world than. Than repair. And what repair is is the act of going back to a moment that didn't feel good, naming what happened, taking ownership for your part, we can come back to that sounds a tricky One and maybe stating what you would do differently and repair to get good at it. To really get good at repair, you actually have to mess up, right? Like, if you think about that, you can only repair for something you messed up. And too often I think I'm gonna learn and I'm gonna figure this out and then I'm gonna be. There's some fantasy like, I'm gonna be some perfect dad. I'm gonna be some perfect mom. Like, that's not a thing. That's not why we ever learn things. It's interesting. Whenever someone calls me a parenting expert, I cringe. Like, expert feels like you know everything. It's like such a sad state. Like, why would we wanna be an expert at anything or be perfect at anything? Plus, when it comes to parenting, the relationship you form with your kid is the foundation they will take in of every future relationship in their teenage and adult years. Not only that, we really want to get a little heavy. The nature of your relationship with your kid will dictate who they're attracted to, because attraction is just what feels like home. And I know even if I could be perfect, I would say my kids don't have Dr. Becky as a mom. That would be creepy. First of all. And do any of you think it would be a good idea? Dr. Becky's kids are going to adulthood thinking, like, where is my partner who is perfectly attuned to my needs all the time and always gets it right and says the right thing? That person does not exist. But I think we do want our kids to go into the world with is. I am naturally attracted to someone who in general listens and wants to get to know me. And we connect and they respect me. And when they do something from a place of their own trigger and their own story and kind of their own stuff, I can expect them to come to me and take responsibility. Going back to the beginning versus blame me for their discomfort. And that only will happen if we have a habit of repair. Now, just to be clear, the responsibility part, repair does not mean. I've said these words myself. I'm sorry I yelled. If you got your shoes on the first time, I wouldn't have had. That is not a repair. Okay? That is only a repair. If you will be very proud of hearing your son say one day to his partner, I'm sorry I yelled, but I wouldn't have done it if you remember toilet paper. Like, that is so creepy and toxic. And we do not want to set that example right. And so repair is taking ownership for your part because that's how kids learn how to take ownership for their part. Okay, quick poll. Not the bad repair. Not I'm sorry you feel that way. And not I'm sorry, but if you didn't do xyz, it wouldn't have happened. I want you to raise your hand if your dad repaired with you when you were a kid. So look around. This is a remarkably high percentage. I'm very proud of this. This is amazing. Okay. I want you to picture your kids in this room, however many decades from now, in this room. I mean, this. We don't have the power to figure it out and be perfect again. That wouldn't be good for kids anyway. But you do have the power for when your kid is asked, like, did your dad? Did your mom repair with you? For 100% of the kids who are parents in this room to go up 100%. And so the thing I would ask of you when you leave is to remember parenting doesn't come naturally. The only thing that comes naturally is how I was parented. If I want to do things differently, I should probably approach that. And I love a good Instagram reel. But none of us see doctors who skip medical school and just get their advice on Instagram. Okay, let's call a spade a spade. There are ways we teach this at Good Inside. We teach skills to parents so they can teach them to kids. So I want everyone to know that. And then last, maybe we can promise each other we're all gonna repair with our kid today. And even if it happened a while ago. Hey, I'm thinking about something last week. I'm sorry I yelled. That wasn't your fault. I'm working. I'm staying calmer, even when I'm frustrated. I love you. They might give you a hug. They might ask you for pretzels. Okay? Either way, I promise you, it will have a profound impact on your relationship with them, your connection, their self worth, and how they think about what love really looks like. And so that would be the one takeaway.
- [24:43]
Moderator
And with that, we are out of time. Dr. Becky, thank you so much for your insight.
- [24:51]
Dr. Becky Kennedy
Thank you so much for listening. I really hope something in this conversation stayed with you, something that made you think, reflect, or just feel a little more seen. If it did, I would be so grateful if you subscribed, left a review, or shared this episode with a dad in your life who could use a moment of support. These are the kinds of conversations that help all of us show up more intentionally for our kids and for ourselves. I can't wait to see you next time. I would like to thank Great Wolf Lodge and Skylight for sponsoring this episode.