← Good Inside with Dr. Becky
Good Inside with Dr. Becky
Why Some Couples Have Better Sex After Kids
00:36:36
Dr. Becky talks with board-certified OB/GYN, sexual wellness expert, and Chief Medical Officer at Hers, Dr. Jessica Shepherd, about new survey data exploring what actually happens to intimacy in long-term relationships and parenthood.
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- [00:00]
Dr. Becky
So it's summer and your kid's out of school and you hear them say, I'm so bored. That's a stressful moment, right? I mean, it is for me, but here's a reframe. Boredom is a doorway to creativity. And Play DOH can actually help you and your kid walk through it. What I love about playdough is there's no one right way to play. Kids can make up the rules as they go. If you have a kid who loves animals, your kid can make a dog or a dolphin. The kid who plays with their food can make a donut or pizza. Your kid can make anything. And your kid isn't just having fun. They're using their imagination and expressing themselves. And if it all gets smushed into one big blob, you have a kid who felt free enough to play. And that matters. And here's my favorite thing. You can sit down next to your kid with a can of Play DOH and no agenda. You can play together, play side by side. There doesn't have to be any teaching or fixing. In fact, I recommend leaving those things out. It's an opportunity to give your kid what they want the most, presence and connection. This summer, give your kid and honestly yourself permission to play, shop play doh@walmart.com today we're talking about sex life after having kids. We're going to be talking about what happens to desire, connection and sexuality once people become parents. Now I know what you might be thinking. In tv, books, media, it tends to always be the same caricature. Kids arrive and the fire goes out. Sex life is non existent and that can happen sometimes. But new data from hims and hers suggests the story might need an amendment. Or at least it's more complicated. And in some ways it's a lot more hopeful than we've assumed. Joining me today is Dr. Jessica Shepherd. She's a board certified OBGYN, Women's Health and sexual wellness expert, menopause specialist and the chief medical officer at hers. We're going to look at what their new survey reveals about the evolving landscape of American intimacy, but also through a good inside lens. How emotional connection, identity vulnerability, stress, self knowledge, the ability to locate yourself and even mental load around parenting shape our relationships to desire, to intimacy, to sex, and to ourselves. I'm Dr. Becky and this is good inside. I'm so glad you're here. You just released a study and I am hearing that some results were surprising,
- [02:47]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
even surprising to me. You know, being a parent, married. Is that what we found through the survey was how many times couples were having sex a week.
- [02:58]
Dr. Becky
The stat itself. Because we're gonna go over a few numbers. Cause I love digging behind the numbers. But let's start with what the numbers are. So you're saying married respondents in your survey.
- [03:07]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
Yeah.
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Dr. Becky
Were having almost twice as much sex per month.
- [03:10]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
Correct.
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Dr. Becky
As singles, they were having sex nine times a month.
- [03:13]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
Yes.
- [03:13]
Dr. Becky
Versus five times a month. And for anyone listening, and I know we agree on this, there's no magic number. There's no, there's no magic number. If you're like, I'm under nine, I'm over nine, I'm under five. No, no, no. Intimacy is so many things. It's really about what works in your home. But I think the point of this conversation is to maybe, I don't know, untangle some myths. So this idea that passion kind of fades in long term relationships.
- [03:38]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
Right.
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Dr. Becky
I mean, I think this is something people have been saying. Oh, so, yeah. What? That's not what you guys found?
- [03:45]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
No, we did not find that. And I think passion is underestimated or undervalued to the sense of what we think. I think we think of it in polarity. Right. Passion has to be what we see when we're maybe first dating someone or when we're first married. And that is like, like where passion needs to be at all times. And what we do find is that passion actually can stay consistent, but might have different forms in how it appears. And because we have this idea of what passion is, we sense that if it's not at that level, then it's lost. Now, parenthood obviously does throw in some other obstacles to how we view our partner, how we interact, the time that we have together and how that time is spent. And so that can somewhat shift our. What that view is on passion, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the passion is gone.
- [04:38]
Dr. Becky
Yeah. And I think, look, you know, passion and familiarity, spontaneity and predictability, like, these are all the things we're all wrestling with in our relationships. Right. To some degree, those of us who have decided to get married or commit to one partner and have kids, we're saying that part of me that's looking for predictability and stability and a foundation. That part of me is strong. Right. That's like a big part of our lives. And that's why we talk about logistics all the time with our partners. Right. When we have kids, okay, well, who's doing soccer and what time are you home? And who's gonna pick up our kid at childcare? Whatever it is. Right. But what I think is so interesting is that doesn't have to be at odds with our desire to be spontaneous or to also have passion. And maybe there's something about the comfort of the structure and the familiarity that allows us to maybe say, for the first time, different things to our partner around, I don't know, our intimacy or sexual desires.
- [05:30]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
I think it gets really real and raw when parenthood is thrown into the equation. And when that happens, it really takes on a different role in how we play as partners, how we interact as partners. And you said that before. The spontaneity is sometimes lost, and so maybe it needs to be focused on again. But that spontaneity is lost because you do have a human that requires full attention and all hands on deck. Yeah. Any time of the day or night. Multiple times a night, I might add.
- [06:01]
Dr. Becky
Yeah, exactly. Well, related to that, nine times a month versus five times a month. Something else you found. I just have to read this because I want to make sure I got it right. Married respondents in your survey were almost twice as likely to describe their sex life as wild. The best it's ever been.
- [06:18]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
Yeah.
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Dr. Becky
Did that strike you as surprising?
- [06:20]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
I think that struck me as, you know, as an individual married, as something that was, oh, well, wow. But when you actually think of the time that you have to devote to sexual intimacy and the unsexiness, I guess you could put it as, you know, parenthood and child rearing. Those moments do become more passionate because many times in your day or the time that you spend in the day raising children is not maybe, you know, as you're walking around with maybe banana in your hair or, you know, with throw up on your shirt is those moments do become more vivacious, and it creates that spontaneity of a moment where the passion is high.
- [07:04]
Dr. Becky
Tell me more about that. So I'm walking around, I've banana in my hair, I spit up on my shirt, right. I maybe say to myself, honestly, like, I actually forgot to shower today and maybe yesterday too. And then I actually help me connect the dots from there to best sex I've ever had. Like, I'm even struggling to connect the dots.
- [07:23]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
Well, many times before parenthood was thrown into the equation, we had time to prep, we had time to look our best and maybe, you know, spend two hours in the mirror before, and now we don't. But the fact that we have someone who's still there, available, who still can see us in our worst, with banana in our hair, throw up on our shirt, but still is available for you emotionally and in a way that there is desire still there and intimacy. Right. So the closeness of you spending with that person, albeit, albeit you don't necessarily look the same and maybe your hair is not perfectly curled and you're not wearing stilettos, is that you still have that connection. And the connection that it can be strong, even though it's not sensed in that way as you're maybe pedaling kids off to school to be there.
- [08:13]
Dr. Becky
So question is part of maybe an explanation for the data. I'm just playing around with this. So tell me maybe I got it wrong. Is okay if I can have banana in my hair and spit up on me and maybe even my partner, like, saw me gave birth, saw me bleed through many pads, you know, all the things, you know, that happen after we have a baby. Maybe I'm also more comfortable saying to my partner, hey, I'm just. I've never actually liked. I don't know, I've never actually liked missionary. That's not, like, a thing for me. I want to tell you, like, never actually had an orgasm that way. Or is that I'm trying to connect this comfort is what we've been through to best sex of my life, where I think some of you know, having the best sex is about your comfort. Knowing what you like, knowing what you want, then feeling like I have someone I can say that to who might receive it. Right. Like, none of this is magical. A lot of it comes from knowing yourself in communication and being with someone who you're comfortable enough to say it to. So is that part of the connecting of the dots?
- [09:11]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
There's comfort. But you know what also comes from this is vulnerability. The vulnerability that now that you have had a child and, you know, as an ob gyn, I know how that goes. All of a sudden, you know, in labor, you know, it may be nice and qu with maybe you brought some background music. And then when it's time to deliver. Now there's 28 people in the room. You are now being seen, you know, in a different way. Yeah. Now your partner is possibly, you know, how much they saw the delivery or, you know, whether it was C section or not. There is a veil that has been removed.
- [09:44]
Dr. Becky
Yes.
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Dr. Jessica Shepherd
And vulnerability now becomes a different part of the language in how you communicate. So. Yeah.
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Dr. Becky
And just for anyone listening, I think there's a way you can make that link if you haven't yet. Where, you know, there's this narrative. I'm noticing it in my brain as we're talking. Where, okay, how can you still have great sex with someone after they've seen you give birth, after they've seen you had diarrhea? Like, whatever. The things that happen when, you know, you've been married for a while or you're cleaning up your kid's vomit together, you're like, how does that relate? Right. But I think there's this alternative narrative, which is I can start a conversation with my partner very honestly saying, look, we've been through some real stuff together. Birth. You watched it all cleaning up, you know, Sally's vomit the other day. We've been through some real stuff. And that makes me think we're ready for a conversation maybe we've avoided. Right, about, hey, what is our intimacy and sex life like for you? What do you want to be different? What are the things you think I think you enjoy, and you're actually like, no, I don't. And vice versa. And given how much we've been through, I feel like we have a foundation to say, let's jump into that conversation.
- [10:58]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
And we also have less time in the sense that before, when kids weren't really necessarily on the scene and we had more time to, you know, primp and, you know, kind of play the, you know, maybe things that we weren't or say the things that we didn't want to say is now there's a time crunch. And also vulnerability kind of stirred into the pot is with lack of time to do whatever we want to do. We really have a finite amount of time to devote to each other. So let's make the best of it. But also there's vulnerability as well, because now you've seen me in my worst. Let's get to the real stuff. Let's just cut to the chase and get to the real stuff. And that's where you start to see a heightening of let's make this time the best. And also I'm going to give more to it because I want more out of it as well.
- [11:51]
Dr. Becky
Let's do the stuff that really, really matters.
- [11:52]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
The pressure is less, and you don't have to play it necessarily to ideals of what you think the other person might want to see because that ideal has been shot to the ground. Yeah, right.
- [12:01]
Dr. Becky
We're not playing that game anymore, buddy. No, no, no. Let's be honest. Let's talk about mental load and how it relates to. I don't want to say sex. It's to desire to connection to what? And I'm sure it could be men, too. But I think about as a woman who's Often the. Often, not always. But the default mental load carrier if they're in a relationship with a man. How. I think that's kind of. It's not directly in the study results, but I think you and I know there's something there in terms of at night.
- [12:32]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
Oh, I know.
- [12:33]
Dr. Becky
The weekend. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So tell us.
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Dr. Jessica Shepherd
I mean, mental load. I didn't even really know that I was carrying it because, again, conditioning. Right.
- [12:41]
Dr. Becky
Yep.
- [12:42]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
So I think there needs to be a lot more honest conversation without blame. I think once you put blame into the category, then we're not gonna get anywhere of what mental load really means. And as. As an emotional being for women who usually tend to tie that mental load to their desire for their partner in a heterosexual relationship is very profound. And I think the more that we enlighten without blame, I will always say that is that we can have a better understanding of what mental load means. But even for women who are listening, I had to learn this myself over functioning. And not setting boundaries makes the mental load harder. And so I've had to learn to
- [13:23]
Dr. Becky
give an example of that.
- [13:24]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
Yeah. Is when we realize that sometimes things may have to fall apart and we can't fix everything will actually decrease our mental load.
- [13:33]
Dr. Becky
Oh. So example. I'm just thinking. Cause this seems, you know, like something that can happen. You're thinking, let's say I'm married to my husband and he's like, yeah, I'm taking the kids to soccer. I'm taking our son to soccer. And I'm thinking, yeah. But I found out that he needed new shin guards. I went to get them, I packed them. I got the water bottle ready with ice, because if Bobby doesn't have ice in his water, it's a total conniption. And I have the water bottle ready over here. And I also old school printed out MapQuest directions. That probably didn't happen, but shout out to MapQuest days. You know, I just like, I gave you the dress. Right. By the way, I might have even packed you a snack because you get cranky. My lovely husband. When you're out for too long. Okay. And my husband's like, but I took him to soccer.
- [14:16]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
Okay.
- [14:17]
Dr. Becky
So I'm thinking about that situation as what I might need to say to myself if I'm over functioning right. Is I might say to my husband before I'm too resentful. You know, I know soccer is your thing. It feels like it's both of our things. Like, I get it. You take Bobby. I'm not there, but I get the water bottle ready. I do this. I know those things seem like tiny things, but it ends up where we're splitting the task, and I'm holding a lot. I wanna let you know, by the way, for the sake of our relationship, I don't wanna keep doing things that lead me to feel resentful of you. You might not even know them, but I should stop doing it. I'm not gonna do that anymore. And so a couple things might happen. Either you could transition to taking over the water bottle and the snacks, or you're gonna have Bobby on the sports field, and he's gonna be like, I don't have a water bottle. And like, I just actually believe you can handle that. So want to talk about that with you is that.
- [15:11]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
That is exactly what I mean. When we have to release some of that mental load, or in my instance, when it. I don't know what my issue is, but stacking dishes in the sink, like, they have to be stacked properly. And so when they're not stacked properly, then I found myself having to go rearrange the dishes in the sink to be stacked properly. So I was creating mental load. And so in order for me to stop that, I had to step away, push away from the table of having the dishes perfectly stacked in the sink.
- [15:42]
Dr. Becky
Yeah, I think that's really, really important. And I always like to make it one more level concrete. Because, look, I think I do hear this one dynamic, and I don't think this explains all of the, he wants to have sex and I don't dynamic. It's way too complicated. Right? Sometimes it's the opposite. But what I do hear come up a lot in that dynamic, anecdotally, both from Instagram, from my friends, is some version of, I'm handling the mental load all day. Like, I'm thinking about, oh, we have to sign up for camp or else my kid's never gonna be in camp. And I'm thinking about the next set of bathing suits and clothes that need to be ordered now, because if we get to a hot day, everything's too small from last year. And I'm thinking about the teacher's gifts, and I'm thinking about all the things. Then my husband's like, why don't you wanna have sex? And I'm like, r you kidding me? But I think the. The almost playful and same team approach could be like, hey, we've been in this dance a lot. Gets the end of the night, you want to have sex. And I think it's one of your ways of saying I want to be close to you.
- [16:40]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
Yeah.
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Dr. Becky
I say, are you kidding me? Which probably feels like I'm saying to you, I don't want to be close to you. And I just. I think there's a way we can work through this. Where I think for me, one of the dynamics beyond what I'm learning about my hormones is there's so many little things that if I say any of them, they almost seem absurd. But it's the accumulation of managing them all, mostly in my mind, not even in the execution, that leads me to feel so depleted. I don't even have any energy to connect with you in that way. And I actually would like fewer of those to be on my list. But I'm also kind of. Put this on a tray for you. Okay, I'm gonna put this on a tray. Lovely husband. And if you would think about the camp signups or the doctor's appointments or food on the weekends for our children who seem to eat every 90 seconds, if you want to pick up one of those, I feel like we're both gonna win.
- [17:33]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
Yeah. Giving options, too.
- [17:35]
Dr. Becky
And I do feel like that. Like, I wanna say to the person who has more desire at night, it. If you proactively say to your partner, hey, this is a crazy idea. Do you want me to help more? Not with the execution and logistics of things, but in thinking about things. Do you want to give me a couple of categories? Can you imagine if my partner said that to you? I'd be like, right here, right now. This is going to happen.
- [17:59]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
Exactly. Right here, wherever we are. I don't care 100%. And change never happens overnight. So I think the expectation that I told you to do it this way and it didn't get done, is you're actually setting yourself up for failure. And so those small conversations have to happen over time.
- [18:18]
Dr. Becky
Yes.
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Dr. Jessica Shepherd
And not getting frustrated. The other thing that I've heard from a sex therapist was that sometimes to get us back into the rhythm of what we would like to do sexually, schedule it 100%, put it on the calendar. It sounds so weird, but really, when you prioritize and you are like, this is how I have to make time.
- [18:40]
Dr. Becky
That's right.
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Dr. Jessica Shepherd
Eventually it won't be that you're scheduling it, but you may have to schedule it to get it back into the schedule.
- [18:45]
Dr. Becky
Esther Perel always says that. And I think about, you know, scheduling sex, scheduling anything. It's just saying, this is a container.
- [18:51]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
Yeah.
- [18:52]
Dr. Becky
What happens in that container can be whatever you want it to be. So people think, oh, that Means we're so boring, we're so lame. No, you've just set up a container. You can do whatever you want to do inside the container. Right? And I think going back to this mental mode, sex. Who has desire, who doesn't? What will it take for both people to be on the same page? In some ways, I think this dynamic can get enacted where sometimes one partner's saying, hey, I want to feel seen and important to you. And one way I experience that is through sex. And actually the other person saying, I want to feel seen and important to you in a way that would actually be true for me is if you take on some of the things in the family. So in some ways it's very, very different on the surface. Mental load and sex, how does that relate? But underneath, it's probably about feeling seen, feeling important, feeling real in the moment, feeling close. And so in that way, I find it's really, really possible as a couple to work through these things because you're actually kind of speaking the same language
- [19:43]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
underneath, it's just wanting to be seen and heard and validating your partner 100%.
- [19:47]
Dr. Becky
Yeah. Okay, parents, quick check in. If your brain feels like it's holding everyone's schedule except your own, you're not doing it wrong. You're carrying a lot. I see this. All the school emails, activities, chores, dinner plans. And somehow it all lives in one person's head, usually mom's. And that gets exhausting. That's why I love Skylight Calendar. It's a smart touchscreen calendar that takes everything swirling around in your brain. Schedules, chores, meals, grocery lists, and puts it in one place where the whole family can actually see it and participate. It syncs with Google, Apple, Outlook, all of it. And you can color code each family member so there's a lot less. Wait, I didn't know. In your house. Plus, with the free Skylight Companion app, you can add or update events, lists and more on the go. And I appreciate this. If after 120 days you're not 100% happy, you can return it for a full refund, no questions asked. Right now, you can get $30 off a 15 inch skylight calendar at myskylight.com Becky that's M-Y-S-K-Y L I G H T.com Becky there's a very specific moment in the day a lot of parents hit, usually in the afternoon where you're still going, but everything feels harder than it. You're answering questions, making decisions, trying to stay patient, and suddenly simple things feel Complicated. Like why does choosing a snack suddenly feel like a high stakes decision? And most of us, me included, have the tendency to just push through it, power through. But I've started to pay more attention to those in between moments and how something as basic as hydration can actually help. And that's what I like about elements. Sparkling electrolyte drinks. They're designed for those exact moments. Not just workouts, but real life. School drop off, the transition between soccer and coming home. That mid afternoon dip around 4:07pm and it's a simple grab and go can. No mixing, no prep. Something I can just reach for when I need a small reset for me. No sugar, no artificial ingredients. Just a way to support yourself a little better in the middle of a long day. If you want to try it, Element is offering a free gift with any purchase just go to drinkelement.com goodinside that's drinklmnt.com goodinside okay parents, quick check in. If your brain feels like it's holding everyone's schedule except your own, you're not doing it wrong. You're carrying a lot. I see this all the time. School, emails, activities, chores, dinner plans. And somehow it all lives in one person's head. Usually moms. And that gets exhausting. That's why I love Skylight Calendar. It's a smart touchscreen calendar that takes everything swirling around in your brain. Schedules, chores, meals, grocery lists, and puts it in one place where the whole family can actually see it and participate. It syncs with Google, Apple, Outlook, all of it. And you can color code each family member so there's a lot less. Wait, I didn't know in your house. Plus, with the free Skylight Companion app, you can add or update events, lists and more on the go. And I appreciate this. If after 120 days you're not 100% happy, you can return it for a full refund, no questions asked. Right now you can get $30 off a 15 inch skylight calendar@myskylight.com Becky that's my S K Y L I g h t.com Becky. Okay, something else you find is parents are significantly more likely than non parents to identify as sexual. Do you identify as a sexual person? Parents say yes at 41.5% and non parents say yes at 29%.
- [24:16]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
That is a big jump. Yeah, that is. Actually those that I was more surprised at that than maybe the first statistic that we went over. There are so many things that we encounter as parents that we have to be sure of what we're saying, and we have to have more ability to make a stance and have the substance behind it then when we didn't have to necessarily be as sure. There is a certainty that comes with being a parent that you have to show up a little bit more for yourself because there are other people involved that also require your time and your effort. And that actually. So it's kind of like, as you have to do that for someone else, it's puts an impetus on you as well to show up as that person. In addition, it's kind of like the domino effect. When one domino is kind of pushed down, it kind of creates this momentum and shift to you as an individual as well. And that comes with certainty and actually being more stable in who you are.
- [25:26]
Dr. Becky
I have this term I've always used, and you might be like, that's so weird. I've never heard someone describe it, but I think you'll feel it. Okay. Where I always talk about how I'm drawn to people I can locate. That's the word. And I just, like, I can locate them. They have a pov. They kind of know who they are. I'm always drawn to people I can locate even when I disagree with their opinions versus someone you're talking to. And I kind of like, where are you?
- [25:53]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
Like, you're always trying to find them.
- [25:54]
Dr. Becky
I'm trying to find them. They could be sitting with me at a table, and I'm still trying to find them, you know. And I think what you're saying maybe in parenthood is there is this process. And I think, especially if we take on parenthood as a journey of, you know, some. I always think the best compliment I ever got from a good inside member said, you know, I've been here about a year or so, and I actually think you help my kid grow, but you help me return. And I feel like parenthood can be a process of relocating yourself. Right. Here I am, and I'm learning about myself, and I'm able to set boundaries, and I can tolerate my kid being upset with me. And there's real power in that. And there's real kind of locating of your own needs and desire in general, which probably then relates to sexuality.
- [26:36]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
There's a failing of yourself because your kids really don't care about what they say. They're gonna tell you the honest truth. And that is very revealing and very humbling, I might add. I've heard many things that my kids have said to me where I'm like, tell me more, but maybe not.
- [26:52]
Dr. Becky
Yeah, like, in a minute. Damn.
- [26:55]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
They will strip you down to a nub. And they'll be like, now, let's go play. And you're like, sure, yeah.
- [27:01]
Dr. Becky
You're like, hold on. That was like two years of therapy from what you just said to me. Let me.
- [27:05]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
Exactly.
- [27:06]
Dr. Becky
Let me appreciate that insight, you know. Okay. 95% of parents reported that hormone treatment positively impacted their sex life. This is all me and my girlfriends are talking about. Okay.
- [27:17]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
Obviously mine too.
- [27:18]
Dr. Becky
I'm in that age range. Okay. The perimenopause range. And everyone is like, hormones, no hrt. And so give me. Maybe just give me and anyone listening a little bit of a foundation of what that is. And then how. You know, maybe even a biological sense, a medical sense, how that relates to desire and sexuality and intimacy.
- [27:38]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
Yeah. Desire and sexual intimacy are two different things in the sense when we think of the mind and the body. Right. So the body can be pleasured, and it has the ability to do that through our sexual organs. But the mind really plays a big part in that as well. When we think of desire, we usually like to separate them, which we should not. And we really should interact with them as one whole holistic kind of interaction and experience. So we're born with all the hormones that we'll ever have. Right. But they do start to increase in da, da, da, adolescence, which is why we have puberty. And then, you know, they're sky high at that point.
- [28:16]
Dr. Becky
Oh, yes, they are.
- [28:17]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
But the body is this beautiful machine where it already is going to do what it's gonna do hormonally. So when we think of our. And I hate terming them this, but our sex hormones for both male and female will heighten at puberty, but then they will start to decrease from a reproductive standpoint when we're in our latter 30s. For women, you know, typically men have a different curve and into our 40s. So if our desire is.
- [28:43]
Dr. Becky
Men curve later, I just want to.
- [28:45]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
Yeah, they actually. Their testosterone starts to. It does decrease, but not at the rate that we see for women, but typically because of pregnancy, it really has to do about reproduction.
- [28:55]
Dr. Becky
Yeah.
- [28:56]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
So as we get further out of our reproductive years, our hormones are going to start to decrease, which makes sense biologically, but where that somewhat impacts our ability to be intimate sexually with desire. Right. But also pleasure with the body is. That's what you see through perimenopause. So it is. It makes sense when we talk about hormone therapy and hormone replacement therapy, that if we have the ability to somewhat give back those hormones that play a part in Desire and pleasure and intimacy, then you will start to see an increase in what happens in sexual interactions.
- [29:36]
Dr. Becky
Why do so many people. Is it. I was gonna say women. I think it is more women, but maybe you can correct me. Kind of suffer through hormonal changes kind of silently.
- [29:45]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
Yeah. Because we've been pretty much taught that, you know, for me as an ob GYN and chief medical officer at hers, we can do something really powerful for you as far as hormones. I've noticed that even as an OB gyn, it is very hard for me to get women to say the thing of what they need. And so what we're able to offer for both men when we think of ed, that was very, very like, I'm not going to talk about that with my doctor. We were able to fill that gap with providing that.
- [30:11]
Dr. Becky
Yeah.
- [30:11]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
And then for women going through perimenopause and menopause, having the ability to have a platform that offers estrogen and progesterone. But we also want to help you with. Understand how important it is for you to take part in this message for yourself, which also will help your relationship.
- [30:30]
Dr. Becky
Yeah. And so for, for, let's say there's a woman listening to this. Because I do think what I hear a lot in relationships where a woman is married to a man. It's like, I don't know, people are in like their 40s. Let's say I'm just piecing this together in my head. My husband wants to have sex all the time. Like, I love my husband. I wanna be close in other ways, cuddle on the couch. I just don't want it. There's such a mismatch. Is part of that maybe related to the differing hormonal curves?
- [30:59]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
Completely changing the narrative really has helped when we look at the hormonal shift of like, what happens biologically, like, you have no control over that your ovaries are your ovaries. And how your brain tells your body to release hormones changes. But also going back to the brain, which I love, always making the connection between mind and body is that the brain also has neurotransmitters like our serotonin and our dopamine and our feel good hormones that are impacted by estrogen and testosterone and progesterone. So if we're already in a biological decline of those, of course the interaction and communication between our feel good hormones of serotonin and norepinephrine and dopamine are also going to be impacted. Yeah. So when you make that connection and you're. You take away the Blame from yourself. I do find that women can sit more in. I'm gonna be okay. It's not my fault. I didn't do anything bad. Now what can I do? Like, move to the next step and being like, what can I do to help myself? Especially now that we have ways to do that and we're talking about it more.
- [32:01]
Dr. Becky
Yeah. And I think also it's really helpful, you know, if there's a partner who has a different hormonal curve, let's say it's the man to know. Oh, this isn't rejection necessarily. Like, this doesn't. I keep thinking about this one line that I repeated the other day, which is. Can be used in so many contexts, like, sometimes hard things happen and it's nobody's fault. It doesn't have to be her fault. It doesn't have to be his fault. There could be a biology to this. And for anyone listening, I also know sometimes it's not just biology. Sometimes it's multifactoral.
- [32:29]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
Yeah. Or the woman.
- [32:30]
Dr. Becky
I feel like I am managing everything for our family all day. And I've made a million decisions and cared for everyone. And, you know, if. If my husband was more involved in the mental load, ordering the kids, bathing,
- [32:40]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
sudden suits, all these things is real.
- [32:42]
Dr. Becky
I'd be more ready, you know, so there. There's never one answer. But I think the biological perspective, and I try to learn a lot about as many aspects of human development as I can. And I have to be honest, it makes sense to me as soon as you say it. But I wasn't aware that the actual hormonal curves are different. And it's a really helpful additional framework. So different.
- [33:01]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
And I feel that if we had more of these conversations involving men, I'm so glad that you said that. That's where we would start to see, oh, it's actually no one's fault. Exactly. There's just a common understanding.
- [33:13]
Dr. Becky
Exactly. Exactly. Moving away from fault to understanding 100%. Okay. Something else you found is that 51% of married respondents to your survey said their sexual performance improved with age. Now, I just first thought, what does that mean, sexual performance? Like, I didn't know I was getting graded. So I need some information about what the grade is based on.
- [33:35]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
Let me tell you what this meant. Sexual performance really has to do with ease and comfort.
- [33:40]
Dr. Becky
Does performance mean likelihood to have an orgasm? Does performance mean performances and all direction?
- [33:46]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
No, because I can tell you with those two things, those actually decrease when we think of hormones, both erection and I guess you could say climaxing or having an organ disease.
- [33:54]
Dr. Becky
Now you're getting to the stuff. Everyone's like, I'm sorry, Becky, do not let her move away from the subject. I hear it.
- [33:59]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
So, yeah. So that. That to me, is a physicality or.
- [34:03]
Dr. Becky
But that changes us.
- [34:04]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
That absolutely changes for both men and women, which is why hormones are actually important. Because as we age and as we start to decline in hormones, both men and women, our organs don't necessarily do the same thing that they did when we were 20. Performance really is from a holistic standpoint of outcome of, did I actually get the pleasure that I was looking for? Was I able to have connection with my partner? Was I able to have a better holistic experience than when you're younger and you actually don't even know what you're doing? Yeah, but you may have a great. A great erect penis and lots of orgasms, but did you really, truly have a great performance? And I think that's different. And how we look at sex, again, typically in the westernized world is not connection. It's actual. For. For lack of a better term for when we think of heterosexual relationships as penis and vagina, that's really all we relate it to, but we don't relate it to connection.
- [35:05]
Dr. Becky
Got it.
- [35:05]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
Yeah.
- [35:06]
Dr. Becky
Okay. So that's performance. But tell me more about orgasms as you get older.
- [35:11]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
No, I love this topic. I think if we were able to, again, not always look at penile vaginal sex and clitoral sex, there are ways to actually have good outcomes of sexual intimacy without looking at it that way. But that does happen. But there are ways to kind of redirect in how that happens, the duration of what happens. Using vaginal estrogen. There are ways to actually enhance with actual medications that are focused on enhancing the sexual response. There are medications on the market that for women. For women and also men. I mean, they've had them for years, but hello, we're gonna actually include women now.
- [35:53]
Dr. Becky
Yeah.
- [35:54]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
But for men, same thing. This is the reason why, you know, medications for ed.
- [35:58]
Dr. Becky
Yeah.
- [35:59]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
Are available because it was a change in vasculature and blood flow that actually contributes to erection that was starting to decrease with age. So in both male and females, you. To see that with biological aging and hormone decline.
- [36:14]
Dr. Becky
Yeah. So helpful. All right. If there's a kind of. To sum it up, like a TLDR on kind of what you were left with around this study, like, what's the thing that kind of keeps ringing in your brain?
- [36:26]
Dr. Jessica Shepherd
I think that there are two things that I want to kind of for me personally, like, for me as an individual who deals with patients who come to me and see this all the time, and then even in my own personal life going through perimenopause is that there is so much that happens to women, and I'm going to single out women for this particular statement that we inherently are not privy to or we're not told. And I, and I say that as a physician, and I think that how we're taught to actually treat women in midlife for so long was not encompassing one, sex as part of that transition. And two, looking at the mind body of women going through perimenopause and menopause in that the brain and the body play a big part in that. So I think we need to change that messaging and looking at it just as, oh, your ovaries just start, you know, stop giving off estrogen, and here we are, is that it's a whole body type of transition that we need to account for. Specific to the study, I would say, if I were to leave a message for anyone listening, is to actually take a step back and look at your sexual health and sexual life as part of your entire life. Because clearly from this we have seen from the statistics that maybe the connection part of sexual intimacy is much more of a whole body and a mind body connection than we ever thought. And that comes with what we were talking about earlier when we started is the connection and the vulnerability of having a safe person there or a person who's seen you in your best and your worst can actually enhance their performance and actual sexual intimacy.
- [38:16]
Dr. Becky
There were so many things about that conversation that are sticking in my mind. I think the biggest thing I'm thinking about is the multitude of reasons why intimacy might be better or might feel a little off after kids. And if you're listening to this thinking, great, all the data is that all these people feel better. I am not in that percentage. Nothing's wrong with you. And my hope is that there's something from this episode that makes you feel a little less ashamed, a little more empowered, maybe moves from fault mindset, whose fault is this? To understanding mindset, huh? What's really going on and what is this all really telling me? Right? If intimacy feels off, maybe there's something going on on the hormonal level, maybe there's something going on around the mental load level. Maybe there's something going on around communication. There's so many factors, which actually means there's so many roads in. You know, I wanted to put something together to make this even More usable For anyone who listened to this and is thinking, okay, this makes me want to have a different kind of conversation with my partner. Maybe we can actually talk about this stuff from same team perspective instead of enemies. And so I'm putting together my kind of top three tips around how to talk about intimacy and sex life with your partner. I'm gonna link to it in the show notes so it's easy for you to just go click get it. Maybe you and your partner can even just look at it together. After all, when you say someone else made it, hey, this Dr. Becky woman put this together. What do you think? Now all of a sudden, it's the two of you on the same team. A little bit against me. That's fine. Instead of you guys just kind of being apart from each other. All right, let's end the way we always do. Place your feet on the ground. Place your hand on your heart. Let's remind ourselves. Even as I struggle on the outside, I remain good inside. I'll see you soon. I'm always talking to parents about letting kids make choices, because when kids make choices in some area of their lives, they're building confidence and a sense of self, and they're more likely to cooperate in the moments we really need them to. Getting dressed is actually one of the best, the best places to start. And it's why I love oh so and Me. Designed by a mom, the entire collection makes it easy for kids to dress themselves, building independence and giving you a few extra minutes in the morning. And because every piece is made to mix and match, all combinations end up working. But the best part is that all the clothes in Oso and me's collection are things kids actually want to wear. Extra soft organic T shirts, Pants with rollable cuffs and draw cords at the waists. Things that are comfy, functional, and designed to last wash after wash. Because everything is pre shrunk and made with the highest quality cotton. So you know that you can keep these pieces for a long time. Even if your kid like mine is kind of messy, like really messy. Just throw everything in the wash and they'll still be the items your kid calls their cozy clothes. Shop clothes for newborn through age 10 and use code. Oh so good. 15. That's O S O G O O D 15 for 15%@osoandme.com.