Nervous System Regulation and the Stages of Burnout with Garrett Wood

Summary

Podcast Summary: Hacking Your ADHD

Episode: "Nervous System Regulation and the Stages of Burnout with Garrett Wood"

Host: William Curb
Guest: Garrett Wood (Certified Clinical Hypnotherapist, Founder of Gnosis Therapy)
Date: January 26, 2026

---

Overview

This episode explores the nuanced and often misunderstood topic of burnout, particularly as it affects neurodivergent people, such as those with ADHD. William Curb sits down with Garrett Wood, who specializes in helping high-achieving, high-masking professionals regulate their nervous systems and prevent burnout. Together, they demystify the stages of burnout, discuss the role of sensory needs, unpack the deep-seated questions of self-worth, and provide practical, compassionate strategies for healing and prevention.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Defining Burnout in the Neurodivergent Experience

• Burnout vs. Tiredness
  • Garrett Wood: If you’re getting a full 8 hours of sleep but still wake up exhausted, you’re likely beyond normal tiredness and into the early stages of burnout.
    (04:00) “If you're even getting full eight hours of sleep and you're still waking up exhausted, that is a sign that you're probably out of the one through five stages. You're probably closer to that two or three...” — Garrett Wood
  • Increased irritability and an inability to calm down after mild frustrations are key signs of early burnout.

The Five Stages of Burnout

• Breakdown of Stages (04:45–05:30)
  1. Stage 1: Heightened intolerance for frustration; more reactive than usual.
  2. Stage 2: Cynicism and emotional detachment.
  3. Stage 3: Continually doing all the things, but it feels terrible; disconnection from joy or fulfillment in activities.
  4. Stage 4: Classic burnout — a sense that nothing makes a difference, and a pervasive lack of energy and hope.
  5. Stage 5: Learned helplessness; difficulty recalling a time as an adult without these feelings, mimicking depression. (04:45) “The fifth stage is you’ve been hanging out there for so long…it has more in common with depression at that point.” — Garrett Wood

The Role of Self-Worth, Shame, and Societal Pressure

• Internalization and Avoidance Patterns

  • Many high-achievers and neurodivergent people push harder to compensate for perceived inadequacies, which deepens the burnout cycle. (06:11) “That piece right there, the blame, shame, guilt of stepping down to care for what your unique needs are and not feeling like you have permission...is exactly where that fantasy [of escape] comes from.” — Garrett Wood
  • The myth that “success requires sacrifice” leads to unsustainable expectations.

• Societal Standards & the Bell Curve

  • Mainstream definitions of effectiveness and productivity exclude many people, pushing them further from feeling “enough.” (08:16) “If you're…designing for that middle of the bell curve, you are literally intentionally ostracizing every single person, which ends up being a majority…” — Garrett Wood

Practical Steps for Healing and Regulation

• Immediate Strategies

  • Start with small, familiar comforts: “What was the thing that made yesterday easier for me? Can I do more of that safely?” (08:41)
  • Expand on what already works before trying to implement major changes.

• Assess–Accommodate–Align Framework (09:15)

  • Assess: Identify unique nervous system and sensory needs.
  • Accommodate: Make practical environmental or behavioral adjustments.
  • Align: Structure routines and work around these needs for optimal functioning.

• Sensory Needs are Foundational

  • The mismatch between sensory environment and personal thresholds tanks executive functioning. (09:50) “A lot of people think that executive function and grit…is innate…but if our sensory needs aren’t met…[that] tunes that way the heck down.” — Garrett Wood

• Resource Recommendation

  • Book: Sensory Intelligence by Annemarie Lombard — helps individuals discern their own sensory profiles. (11:09) “If anybody's listening…there's a book called Sensory Intelligence...there's a quick little like, quick and dirty assessment you can do…” — Garrett Wood

Understanding the Mind-Body Connection

• Self-regulation is often about recognizing body cues—hunger, fatigue, frustration—instead of strictly “mental” solutions. (15:05) “If we aren’t paying attention to that stuff, it shows up in our inability to handle frustration and distress...” — Garrett Wood
• Self-compassion and curiosity are critical for working with deep-seated beliefs about self-worth. (28:43) “To your point, it has to start with compassion...” — Garrett Wood

Practical Tips for Avoiding “Doing Nothing” Anxiety

• If resting or empty time feels unsafe, find low-stakes, soothing activities (e.g., puzzles, organizing books). (32:53) “Every time I want to do something that I know is going to feel good…I will…organize my books…it's not like taxing. But also, if I was just sitting there, I have nothing I need to do. That would feel distressing too.” — Garrett Wood

The Consequences of Hyperfocus and Passion

• Enjoyment in work doesn’t protect against burnout; in fact, it often leads to overextension. (35:17) “If they're passionate about [work], they're going to always be at work…that's actually dangerous…” — Garrett Wood

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the “Car Accident Fantasy” (Self-Imposed Permission to Rest): (06:11) “That piece right there, the blame, shame, guilt of stepping down to care for what your unique needs are...where it's like, oh, I could get what I need…and I wouldn’t have to think about anybody.” — Garrett Wood

• On the Mind-Body Connection: (17:48) “There is no connection. It is the mind body, right?” — Garrett Wood

• On Why Compassion Must Come First: (28:43) “It has to start with compassion. Like, we have to be understanding and caring, otherwise we end up blaming and shaming ourselves and ramping those beliefs up even more.” — Garrett Wood

• On Sustainable Success: (35:56) “Success requires sacrifice. And if we choose to continue to believe that…or if we imagine no sustainable success is actually built through your well-being, not at its expense, what does next week, next month, next year, 10 years, 20 years feel like to you to be you working through those things?” — Garrett Wood

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:52 — How to identify if you’re in burnout, not just tired
• 04:45–05:30 — Walkthrough of the five stages of burnout
• 06:07–07:08 — “Car accident fantasy” and the shame/guilt cycle of self-care
• 08:16 — Societal standards marginalizing those outside the bell curve
• 09:15–10:19 — Strategies for beginning healing; Assess–Accommodate–Align
• 11:09–12:57 — Sensory Intelligence resource and sensory profiles
• 15:05–16:27 — Importance of attending to bio-budgets and self-care signals
• 28:43 — The necessity of self-compassion for real change
• 32:53–34:38 — Adaptive, non-pressured activities for managing anxiety and self-regulation
• 35:56 — Rethinking the “success requires sacrifice” myth

---

Actionable Takeaways

• Recognize Burnout Early: Pay attention to chronic exhaustion and changes in frustration tolerance.
• Honor Unique Sensory and Psychological Needs: There’s no one-size-fits-all; what works for one person might not work for another.
• Check In With Your Body: Use biofeedback (sleep, hunger, comfort) as a gauge to intervene before burnout worsens.
• Start Small: Build in more of what reliably helps, then reassess and scale up.
• Create Low-Stakes Successes: Soothe your system with activities that feel good, even if they seem trivial.
• Cultivate Compassion: Both for your past and present self—change begins with kindness, not criticism.
• Challenge Sacrifice Myths: Sustainable success is built on well-being, not on running yourself into the ground.

---

Guest Info

• Garrett Wood: Find him via LinkedIn, Instagram, or at Gnosis Therapy.

---

This episode is an essential listen for neurodivergent individuals, professionals at risk of burnout, or anyone interested in deepening their understanding of self-care, resilience, and the intersection of nervous system regulation and mental health. The conversation is candid, evidence-based, and infused with compassionate realism.

Transcript

[TJ Maxx Advertiser]

At TJ Maxx feel more you than ever without compromise. Because we never make you choose the quality you want, the styles you crave and the prices you love. It's all at TJ Maxx, so you can focus on just being you. With so many finds arriving daily, that means so many ways to show your unique style. Shop in store and [e-mail] and Max, what makes you you?

[William Curb]

Welcome to Hacking youg adhd. I'm your host William Curb and I have adhd. On this podcast, I dig into the tools, tactics and best practices to help.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

You work with your ADHD brain.

[William Curb]

Hey, Team Burnout is one of those terms we throw around a lot in the neurodivergent community, but often we don't realize we're in it until we've hit that wall. Today I'm talking with Garrett Wood, a certified clinical hypnotherapist and founder of Gnosis Therapy. Garrett specializes in working with high achieving professionals, which is often code for high masking folks, you know, helping them navigate executive well being and their nervous system regulation. In our conversation today, we dive into the nuance of burnout, specifically how it differs from just being tired. And then we walk through the five stages of burnout so you can actually.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Spot where you are on that map.

[William Curb]

We also get into some heavy but important stuff regarding self worth and how often subconsciously we drive ourselves into the ground just to prove that we're enough. If you'd like to follow along on the show notes page, you can find [e-mail] 267 alright, keep on listening to find out how your brain might be actually asking for a break. All right, well it's a pleasure to.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Have you here to get started.

[William Curb]

Can you just tell me a little.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Bit about what you do and then we can kind of jump off from there?

[Garrett Wood]

Yeah. In 2018 I opened a clinic that we call Gnosis Therapy and it helps people that are burned out. So mostly working with high achieving, high masking professionals. They're typically in a leadership role, but not always. Sometimes they're a small business owner, an entrepreneur, but most of the time they have some executive functioning differences than what the book the 7 Habits of Highly Effective People would lead you to believe is the holy grail of executive functioning.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah, and I mean man, burnout is such a. It's such a thing that like it so built into like how being neurodivergent is at this point where it always feels like we need to be doing more and that's so often the, like, exact opposite of what we need, but just what we feel versus what we need is often vastly different.

[Garrett Wood]

Yeah. What your own unique nervous system needs are versus the environment. And then sometimes people try to get out of that burnout state by doing more things, and then you're like, makes it even worse. It intensifies some of it. So. So it's really interesting trying to figure out how to support, best support someone with their own unique needs and then what seems to be triggering the intensity of it, and then how to bridge that gap between what they need and, like, what their environment is in, like, a really practical way. It's a fun part of the job.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

One of the things I find, too, about burnout is also not about, like, taking a vacation or anything. And not just doing less either, because that often doesn't help the situation. Because you're, like. You're in that state because things are too intense, finding the right things to be doing.

[Garrett Wood]

And the hard part is it's not. You can just, like, pull those off the shelf. You know, there's very few times where I've gone in and been like, oh, that looks good on the mannequin. Put it on me, and it looks as good as better. That's never happened. So it's that same kind of thing, trying to figure out, okay, well, what is this? Does this fit me or not? How do I know? And that is a process, and it's really hard to do that when you're in a state of burnout to begin with.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

How would someone, like, know that they're actually in burnout versus just they need to start getting some more sleep or something?

[Garrett Wood]

Well, I bet you we all need more sleep. To be fair. That's a safe bet. Right? But if you're even getting full eight hours of sleep and you're still waking up exhausted, that is a sign that you're probably out of the one through five stages. You're probably closer to that two or three right there. But I think sometimes the easiest way to recognize it is a lack of tolerance for frustration is more intense for whatever your normal is. Everyone's got that range. But whatever your normal is, usually if you're like, can't calm down after that guy kind of cuts you off in traffic. And normally you can. That's a pretty good sign that you're in that first stage of burnout. If you're feeling, like, cynical, like, you always feel like you're emotionally rolling your eyes at everything that's shown up, that's probably a sign you're closer to that. Stage two, burnout.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

So how about we walk through these stages of burnout, too? Because I'm sure people would be kind of interested in, like, what that means to be in each stage.

[Garrett Wood]

Yeah. So the first, the fourth stage is what we would consider, like, classical burnout. That most people are feeling like they're. It doesn't feel like what I do is enough to make a difference. It doesn't feel like there's a way out, and it doesn't feel like I have the energy I need to be okay. That's stage four. Right. Stage five is you've been hanging out there for so long that it's hard for you to remember or recall a time in your adult life or you haven't felt a version of that. So that's kind of like that learned helplessness state has more in common with depression at that point. And then stage three is you're still doing all the things. It just feels terrible to be you while you're doing it. I don't want to be, you know, in this relationship, in this work, in this environment, whatever it may be that's triggering that intensity.

[Libsyn Ads Narrator]

Yeah.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

I know when I've been, like, heading that direction in the past and have not been in good mental states, it's been like, been driving and been like, man, it would be great if I was in a car accident. It's not my fault if I can't do anything right now. I'm thankful in those times that I've been like, that's a really dangerous thought. Let's not keep going down that road.

[Garrett Wood]

Yeah. Yep. And so part of you is really tired of whatever they're going through. And the other part of you is like, okay, that's not everything, though. So, like, let's. Let's balance this out here.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Because, yeah, when you're in that state, it feels like there's no way to step back. I think that's why the, like, car accident fantasy is like, oh, well, I'd.

[William Curb]

Be forced to there.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

I. No one could blame me for this.

[Garrett Wood]

That piece right there, the blame, shame, guilt of stepping down to care for what your unique needs are and not feeling like you have permission from whoever, yourself and society at large to be able to do that, I think is exactly where that fantasy comes from, where it's like, oh, I could get what I need, what I actually need, and I wouldn't have to think about anybody. Wouldn't be like, oh, you must can't cut it. You're not enough. You're not good. You don't do these things well. You're a failure. All those thoughts and feelings. Sometimes if part of ourselves believes that, we do a lot of these actions to try to create evidence to prove those beliefs inaccurate. And so sometimes people get stuck in a burnout cycle because they're afraid to slow down, because then that would give themselves evidence that all those insecurities are true. And so then we get stuck in this, like, back and forth, boom and bust cycle of burnout, which is really challenging.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah. And I think it's something that a lot of neurodivergent individuals suffer with because we do have this weight of feeling.

[Garrett Wood]

Like we're not enough. And there's been a lot of experiences where it's felt that way. And I'm sure there's a lot of people that have been easy to point that out. But we have this, like, very strange. You know, back before we had computers and, like, software, if you put, like, ink on paper, it was a big deal if you made a mistake because you had to, like, go back, pull it out, white it out, and then type over it. And it looked kind of like, crummy. Now we live in an era where you can just, like, highlight, delete, start over. Now we live in an era where you don't have to do that. You can just talk into something. Or even better yet, you can be like, hey, can you write me something about this? Right. It's a very different time. But I think some of the standards that we created for society was this race to, like, what's the best, perfect thing that will fit everybody? And I think when we're talking about nuts and bolts for airplanes, that works. But when we're talking about people and their experiences, that is such a narrow box that, like, if you're underneath the bell curve and you're designing for that middle of the bell curve, you are literally intentionally ostracizing every single person, which ends up being a majority of the people. Because most people fall either on either side of the bell curve. They're not right in the center. And so if that societal expectation is, you need to be here in the center, and you're not, you're gonna have that experience of not being enough, but it's not you. It's that system that's around you.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

So with this in mind, what can people start doing to, like, start working on healing from burnout?

[Garrett Wood]

The easiest, quickest thing that's like, really general advice is like, what was the thing that made yesterday easier for me? Can I do more of that safely. Right? And so that's like, okay, let's. Can I. Can I slow down a little bit? Can I care for myself in a way that I'm already doing, in a way that I do just a little bit more? It'll be better. Once we have a little bit of that wiggle room, then it starts easier to, like, use more of that, to kind of do some bigger level things. In the work I do, there's so many things that can help people. It's really challenging to be like, okay, well, what does this unique individual need? And so there's this framework that I've put together. It's assess and then accommodate those needs and then align how they're working with what they need to work their best. But those assessments are really interesting. Some of it's like, what are your unique nervous system needs as far as, like, sensory thresholds go? Some people, if you put them in a library, they're like, finally, I can focus. Some people, you put them in that, and they're like, I am going insane. This is terrible. And so if your work environment doesn't match your needs, it's a really big deal. A lot of people think that executive function and grit and mind over matter is an innate quality and your specific skills might be more than someone else's. But if our sensory needs aren't met and we're trying to operate in an environment where that's not aligned with us, we don't get to use any of them. No matter what access we have, it just, like, tunes that way the heck down. And so it's amazing if you know what your nervous system needs are as far as that sensory threshold goes, and you accommodate them, all of a sudden, you might get a 20% boost in your ability just to perform mundane tasks without all the, like, rigmarole of having to yell at yourself to get started.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah, I can imagine. Because even just as much as, like, having the right lighting in a room can make a huge difference.

[Garrett Wood]

I used to work in a corporate office, and I would get in early because all the lights would be off, and I'd run my, like, heavy reports that I needed to, like, do a bunch of, you know, math on. And I'd be sitting in there, and people would start showing up for the day with their coffee, and they'd be like, why are all the lights off? You've been. How long you been here? You didn't turn the lights on? I'm like, oh, no, the lights are on. Okay, I'm done. All right, I'm done for this day. Like, hopefully I got enough. The report done.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah. I know so many people that are like, big, light, bad, got to have the nice ambience feel. But I imagine for a lot of people, it's hard to even identify these sensory needs, the how their nervous system is working. It's their place they can start to figure out how to. Is it just, you know, kind of like slowing down or is it what and looking or what is it?

[William Curb]

What would that process look like?

[Garrett Wood]

If anybody's listening and they want to check this out, there's a book called Sensory Intelligence. It's by Anna Marie Lombard. She's an occupation doctor of occupational therapy out of South Africa. And she's been doing research on this for like the last, I don't know, 40 years. She goes out and speaks about it. She's been talking about it so much that she's like, tired of talking about it at this point. But originally she would look at these sensory profiles of people and then she would look at their occupation and. And she would look at the environment and how much overlapped and how much gap there was. And then she would make predictions based upon that about how long someone would be able to withstand that before they left. And it was a pretty decent predictive model. You can go on her website and take a look. Sensory Intelligence. And there's a quick little like, quick and dirty assessment you can do that'll kind of give you a jumping off point. She talks about some people are out there being leaves, some people are trunks, some people are roots. And so it's kind of their different sensory threshold for experience. You know, the leaves are out there for the rain, the cold, the wind. The roots are down there trying to mitigate all of that changes. But she tracks it across the seven senses. So interoception, vestibular stuff, visual, taste, olfactory, because you can be really low on olfactory and really desire a lot of stimulus. So if you're in an environment where it's like pretty neutral smells, but you love the smell and you need that to feel normal, how do you accommodate that? You know? And so some people will take like a little handkerchief with like some, you know, some nice aromatherapy essential oils on there, and they're like sniffing that and they're like, okay, I feel a little, little, you know, different. And other people walk by a lush and they have to cross the street or like a bath and body works because they're like, I'm going to have a headache for three days.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

No, that's what My wife is like, will be the mall. And it's just like, oh, my God. That's just. She's like, I couldn't even enter that store if I wanted to.

[Garrett Wood]

Yeah. Those big department stores. When I walk through the makeup perfume setter. Right. I. A deep breath, and I walk through and I don't. And I exhale, and I'm like. I feel like I'm Tom Cruise in his movies where he's trying to hold his breath to get through to the. Whatever.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah. What I love about those things, too, is it does really highlight to me how different people are. Because some people are like, yeah, I cannot handle this for a second. And other people are like, can't handle what? There's nothing going on here.

[Garrett Wood]

Yeah. And I always think about, like, you know, how we see birds as feathers versus how they see each other. They have a different spectrum of light that their eyes respond to. And so they're seeing a complete different thing than what we're seeing. And it's not right or wrong. It's just different because they're different now. You know, we're all people, but there's a large spectrum of, like, what that feels appropriate for people. And some of that's great. Like, if you're going to be a perfumist, you want to have a very high desire for sensory or olfactory sensory stimulation. And you want to have a very low threshold so you can smell all the subtle differences and you like it. Then it's like, oh, cool, that's a great job for you. You know, you can design specialty scents because you can spell the difference. Same thing with auditory for music. Everybody has that. You know, some people are. I can't carry tune. I can't tell if I'm in tune. People are like, that's not the note. I'm like, it's. It's not. I. I can't hear it. Right. So everyone's got their differences there.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah. I. I remember I had a friend in high school, and the teacher was, like, going to, like, going around, like, asking everyone their favorite music to listen to, like, for studying. And he's like, silence. And everyone's like, what? And he's like, silence. I don't like music. And it's just like, okay.

[Garrett Wood]

And you'll see those studies when people talk about, like, oh, the best music to study to. And you're like, cool. But there's, like, so many outliers in those studies. If look at the data. And so it's not the best music to study, too. It's the best for the most amount of people that they sampled. You're like always have to qualify it, right?

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah. I love looking at studies and being like, well that the. Your data, where you get your data makes a big difference on how you're going to interpret these samples.

[Garrett Wood]

Absolutely. And like even your context. Right. So it's really interesting. Yeah. It's always fun to play around and see where the gaps are.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

I guess I'm hearing a lot that we need to be paying more attention to our body. And this is something that can be definitely hard for people to do if they. They're not in the practice of doing it.

[Garrett Wood]

Absolutely. I mean there's very few times where we've like attuned to our bodies. It's much easier to attune to something else. You know, we use them and we don't think about them and that's a good thing. And if I had to think about every single function my body did, I would be insane. So like yay. But when things aren't working. Yeah, we gotta figure that out. And so some of that we talk about like bio budgets. So how much movement and what type of movement your body needs to feel comfy in its own self. Sleep is very different for people and like how much they need because some people can be in bed for 10 hours, they're only getting six hours of sleep, so they need to be in bed for 11 to get that same difference. Some people are like, no, I was six hours and I got, you know, seven and a half hours because they got a ton of deep sleep or something. If we aren't paying attention to that stuff, it shows up in our inability to handle frustration and distress. Like if we're not well fed, we're not well rested. If we don't feel comfy, we're not as resilient as we could be. You know, if we think about how people do advanced interrogation techniques, they don't feed them very well, they don't let them sleep, and they usually put them in a sensory distressing environment and then make threats. I wonder how many of us are doing a version of that to ourselves.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Oh, I never thought about it that way, but that is truly awful. Yeah. Because you throw someone off center, they're going to be off what they want to do.

[Garrett Wood]

Yep, absolutely. They become more pliable, they become more susceptible and so do we to all the negative experiences that are out there. And our minds are always looking for that anyway. So it's like really like a. Turns into a vicious cycle really quickly for People.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah. And I know I've had plenty of times where, like, my kids are being very grumpy, and I'm just like, oh.

[William Curb]

Do you guys need a snack?

[Co-host/Interviewer]

And they're like, I'm like, well, when was the last time you ate? It's like, yeah, I think they really need a snack right now.

[Garrett Wood]

I remember the first time I was, like, writing something. I don't know if it was for school or work. And I was like, oh, this is good. This is good.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

I like this.

[Garrett Wood]

Cool. This is fun, right? And then I got to the end, and I was like, man, this is terrible. I should delete this whole thing. This is such a waste of time. I'm such. How did I ever think this was good? I was so wrong five minutes ago. And then I looked down and I'm like, oh, it's been four hours. The coffee's out of my system. My blood sugar is probably crashing. I go grab a snack, come back, read it. I'm like, it's not good. It's not bad. It's fine. This is fine. Right? And then all of a sudden, your ability to discern the difference between what's good and bad changes, because it's an extension of how you're actually feeling in your own body, which is wild to think about.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah, it's. See stuff. People are like, oh, the mind body connection. And I'm like, no, it's just one thing. It's.

[Garrett Wood]

There is no connection. It is the mind body, right? Yeah.

[William Curb]

Yeah.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

What's the connection between my hand and my wrist? I mean, there's a connection there, but it's the same action.

[Garrett Wood]

Yeah, it's the same thing. Yeah, it's all part of the same process. Yeah. There's a lady. There's a doctor of neuropsychology, Lisa Feldman Baird, I think is her name now, and she does a lot of research on emotions, and she's kind of challenging some traditional models of emotions. And in her work, she often talks about how your brain is essentially just trying to predict what your experience is going to become soon. And so it's always trying to begin, initiating programs to help support you as you step into that new environment. Right. And so, based upon its past learning, based upon its current state and how well resourced it is, sleep, food, love, affection, all those things, and that changes how that experience feels to you. So she doesn't think emotions are innate, that they're constructed most upon past experience, current state, and then expectations. It's pretty interesting work because we're talking about the mind, body connection, how there is no separation. She would say, like, emotions are just an expression of that experience.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah. And I definitely can see that. And with just how hard it is to try and tease out the different versions of myself where I'm like, oh, yeah, this is me, you know, angry or happy, and it feels very different. And yet often it's hard to tease out why.

[Garrett Wood]

Yep. Why?

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Garrett Wood]

Is it the experience itself that's different? Is it how I'm feeling that's different? Is it, you know, how well rested I was last night?

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. As, I mean, this morning I was procrastinating, reading some stuff on the Internet and like, like, man, this is really grinding my gears today to read what these people are talking about. And yeah, it was like, it would be upsetting to read anyways, but I was just like, man, something going this morning. And I'm like, oh, I need to maybe do a little bit of reset before I continue on with my day.

[Garrett Wood]

And that's the perfect. You're like, this isn't my normal. This is a different intensity. Okay. So I need to pay attention here. I need to listen in a little closer, get curious. That's 100% that message. Right? It's great. Yeah.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

And I think it's a lot of, you know, trying to figure out. Yeah. What. What those base needs are and, you know, trying to get beyond just like, coping with the feelings to being like, okay, how am I going to make a difference in my day now?

[Garrett Wood]

Absolutely. Yeah. What do I do to get back into, like, a. That window of tolerance, that neutral zone so I can just be a person and then I can go do something after that. Right. But, yeah, we skip that step. We get in trouble.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah. And it's something I always want to make sure that I'm paying attention to because I don't want to be. I want to be who I want to be, and I don't want to be, you know, the other guy that's, you know, being mad at my kids or, you know, snapping at someone because they asked a question that I thought should be obvious or something.

[Garrett Wood]

Yeah. I always joke that my dog. I have a cute little dog. Right. Little black lab. She's always cute, but she's not always cute. Her behavior is exactly the same every single day, all the time, and has been for years now. But how it feels to me is different. And that has nothing to do with her. Right. So, yeah.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah, Chiweenie. And she's like a rescue dog. So she's incredibly, like, food, motivated and stuff. And so like, whenever I go to feed her, she just runs up next to me and it's just jumping straight up in the air to be like, express how excited she is. And on days where I'm doing fine, it's cute and it's fine. And days where I'm kind of grumpy, I'm like, you need to stop, dog. I'm gonna feed you. I feed you every day. Like, behavior's the same.

[Garrett Wood]

Your reaction is the difference. Right? Yeah.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yep. And it's funny how that in the moment, it doesn't feel that way at all.

[Garrett Wood]

Right? It doesn't. Yes. The. In her book, she talks about judges and whether the grant paroles or not. And the ratio of yeses to nos changes the closer it gets to lunchtime. And these are supposed to be these like paragons of rationality and reason and just the facts and, you know, no emotions. And they're obviously emotionally motivated also. Just like you're a chiweenie by food. We all are to some degree.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Oh, yeah. It's. If you've ever gone without for a while, it becomes so clear how motivated by food we are.

[Garrett Wood]

Yeah, absolutely. Food's one of the like tasty things and it's often. It's healthy too. So it's like one of those things that makes it like innately stimulating. Which is it. Yeah.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

And it's amazing with the. How good some of the unhealthy food can taste and then how badly that can make me feel the taste and.

[Garrett Wood]

Then the feeling afterwards don't align. Right. Yeah.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah. I was like, why did I do that to myself? I knew this was gonna happen.

[Garrett Wood]

Yeah. I always like that first slice of pizza, but the seventh one just doesn't hit the same way, you know?

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah. And then I'll be like, man, that I did not like that.

[William Curb]

But there's still one more left.

[Garrett Wood]

Yeah. Yep.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

I know a 20 year old me would definitely still be eating it. 40 year old me probably might be able to. To not.

[Garrett Wood]

Yeah. To be like, it might be tasty tomorrow too. Who sees? We'll see. Yeah.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

So I kind of want to circle back to what we were talking about.

[William Curb]

Burnout.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

And one of the things that's been percolating in my mind is we were talking about, you know, the burnout can stem a lot from this idea of not feeling like you're enough. And that I feel is also just a very much tied into self worth. Like it's something where we might not realize that we're dealing with these confidence and self worth issues and just think, I, you know, I just, I need to do more. But not tied into, you know, some of these are like underlying. Oh yeah, I'm not viewing myself in.

[William Curb]

A very positive light here.

[Garrett Wood]

Yeah. Yep. And I. There's subconscious beliefs, right. So they're not our conscious awareness. We're not thinking, walking around, oh, I'm not enough. We are feeling what it feels like to experience the world as if you're a person who is not enough. And you're filtering your experiences to match that feeling. And so it's really insidious that way where it's like below the surface, you don't know it's there, but it's consistently present for people that have that belief. And anytime you encounter an experience that intensifies that belief, it builds up. But then we also create this avoidance to like not have to experience it as much. And so there's becomes this like resistance internally to actually even noticing the belief in the first place. Because it feels like if we call attention to it, we're actually bringing it, making it bigger. And so it's like, ah, that's like the can of worms or Pandora's box or whatever. But what's really interesting is if you do decide to do some of that, it like gets more malleable. It gets like, you can play with it a little bit, especially if you're like in a relaxed body. If you're really anxious, don't do that work because you're just gonna make it more intense moving forward. But if you can find a relaxed nervous system, be in that zone, that window of tolerance and then begin to do some of that analytical, supportive, caring kind of work in like a curious, compassionate way. It can be really impactful.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah. And I imagine, yeah, it's what I'm hearing my head to is like, I'm like, I know, I heard so many people being go like I think I could still do it even if I am not relaxed. And because I'm like, that's exactly how I would have been at so many points where it's just like, oh, I'm special, I have low self worth, but I am special and I can do whatever I need to.

[Garrett Wood]

Yeah, absolutely. There's this idea of memory reconsolidation. So like when we remember something, the reason why it's so like infallible in the court of law or valuable in the court of law is because like we're not actually remembering reality, we're recalling our memory. And so every time we open that program, we inadvertently Update the program with our own current beliefs, feelings and our like actual feeling in that moment. So if it's a day where you're frustrated with a dog because they're jumping for their food and you go back and open that program, you're bringing that frustration into that. And so then when you put that memory back, when your body's operating consciously, automatically, that subconscious belief has now changed a little bit. And so you might be ramping the dial pile up on some of the intensity of some of those feelings versus turning it down. And that's valuable that our system operates that way. Like I think it's like almost miraculous that it does that because if you're in an environment where that belief serves you and then you're ramping it up, it's going to serve you even more if you're in that environment. But there's very few of us that are still in that environment where it's actually serving us. You know, my favorite toys and clothes and shoes that I wore when I was 10, I still have a fond memory of them, but they don't serve me now. I can't put on my shoes from when I was 10. Like they don't. Even if I had them, they wouldn't fit. Right. And so we do naturally update those beliefs and we can intensify them and make them bigger or we can make them comfier to experience and recall that that's something that used to happen that may not be true now as I move forward in life.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah. Because we've developed these strategies that were very helpful at the time. Yeah. Like, like it, you know, got me through, you know, bad time in middle school or something. But middle school me doesn't need to still be coming out like that. The, his strategies don't work for 40 year old me.

[Garrett Wood]

Hopefully not. Right. Hopefully you're in a different than when you were in middle school. Everyone grows and changes. We want that. Right. And so our beliefs have to about ourselves. The world and others have to update as we grow and the world changes with us. We have to be able to lean into that adaption a little bit.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah. And I think it's important to. Yeah. Acknowledge like. Yeah, it was, it was okay for middle school will to be acting that way. And you see strategies to protect himself even if they weren't the best strategies at the time. But you know, that's. He got through it. So and then being like.

[William Curb]

Yeah.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Because if I just view it in a purely negative light and like something that's, it's like oh I'm now adding things that are wrong with me.

[Garrett Wood]

Yep. You're making it worse. You're like adding. Creating evidence to intensify your own insecurities or worse, beliefs about yourself. Right? Yeah. But it's interesting because you're like, okay, it did serve a purpose. What did it do for me? Okay, cool. Is that the only way I could have got that need met or got that solution I needed? Probably not. Okay, well, if I can be compassionate and curious about it, maybe there could have been a different way then. Okay. But maybe that's true now. So, okay, let's get creative, let's get curious. But to your point, it has to start with compassion. Like, we have to be like, understanding and caring, otherwise we end up blaming and shaming ourselves and ramping those beliefs up even more.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah. And it is very hard to get that self compassion when you don't have that self worth. But being like, I like to start at it with, okay, it's hard, but what if I tried to do it anyways? What if I maybe didn't even completely believe the words, but I still allowed myself to think them?

[Garrett Wood]

Yeah. And if you felt compassion for someone else, sometimes it's easier to transition an emotion once you're experiencing it. So if you're, you know, you're thinking about your dog and you're like, oh, it's a rescue dog. Could I imagine how their life could have been had I not intervened in their life? I'm like, oh, like, I'm so glad I had opportunity to do that. Good for them, good for me. And like, that feels good. And like, I hope I'm giving them the best life that I can give. And there's some compassion there. Okay. Now probably also feel that for your kids. Probably feel that for some siblings or some friends. Okay. Maybe we can bring them an image of, you know, younger you to yourself or even on your phone and be like, can I feel that thing that I felt for my dog for this version of myself? And maybe it's just a little bit easier to make that transition. Yeah.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

And I can imagine that while it is hard that it's just so valuable for people to like. Yeah, it's okay to feel like I deserve things and I. It's okay.

[Garrett Wood]

Yep. That right there, that exhale. It's okay like that. Yes. That's what we're open for with that. Right.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

So I was just wondering, you know, thinking about these ideas of where should someone start with this? Because I. I imagine someone's. There's so many people that Are like, we've had a ton of ideas and we had a lot of stuff to talk about, but we're like, if they wanted to get going, what should they start with?

[Garrett Wood]

Yeah, if they want to get going, they got to recognize that they're there in the first place. Right. Like you're saying, oh, the dog is the dog, it's me. Got it. Okay. But then it's okay. I'm not doing okay. What's something I can do right now in this moment to just be a little bit better? What does that look like? And that's different for everybody. Right. So knowing enough and looking at what's helped before in the past, that hasn't cost you that much that you can do now is a great place to start. Like, that is the place to start, and that's unique for everybody. So, you know, if you look back two days ago, the day before that, the day before that, was there something that made life a little easier? Maybe it is a seven slice of pizza. Who cares? In that moment, you need to be okay before we can work on any of this other stuff. But after that, once you have that wiggle room now, you can use that to kind of play with, to start figuring out ways to accommodate your unique needs, to bridge the gap between what you need and what your environment it is. And people often haven't ever been in an environment where they've been fully supported for what their nervous system needs. So it is like figuring that out for the first time, and it's. It's worth the effort every single time. But. But it's challenging. Yeah. There's not a lot of people out there helping with it. So.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah, I just had the funny thought of, like, I wonder if it would feel stressful to be unfamiliar with that situation, which is then hilariously like, oh, being comfortable. But it's stressful for me, and it is.

[Garrett Wood]

Yeah. You're like, wait, I feel good. I've never felt good before. What does that mean? Oh, no. I'm like, right back in. Right? Yeah.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

I've definitely done things like on vacation where I'm like, oh, I don't have anything I need to be doing. Oh, no, I don't have anything I need to be doing.

[Garrett Wood]

Yeah. Yep. And I feel like with ADHD specifically, that boredom can be just as, like, anxiety inducing as, like, anxiety can be. And so having something that feels good to you. Like, my silliest example is like, every time I, like, want to do something that I know is going to feel good, sure, I can open the door. For someone else. And I will do those. And then like, oh, that feels a little, little different. But I'll go and organize my books. I'll just rearrange them or dust them. And I'm like, oh, okay, cool. I'm not out there having to run 10 miles or, you know, do anything really crazy. But it's something for me that feels like soothing and calming. And I feel a little bit different while I'm doing it. And it's not like taxing. But also, if I was just sitting there, I have nothing I need to do. That would feel distressing too. Right.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

I like going to puzzles and stuff where I'm like, oh, it feels like I've done something, but if I didn't complete it, it's. There's no, there's no consequence.

[Garrett Wood]

Yeah, there's no consequence. It's just there for you and there's no downside. Love it.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

At the end, I'm like, oh, I did this. I feel I have a sense of accomplishment still.

[Garrett Wood]

Yeah, absolutely. When I think back about making Legos and putting it together, the bigger the thing was, the more fun that was at the end. But then I would have these other little LEGO projects where you'd be like, okay, I'm done on the big one. I need to switch the little one so I can finish and get that feeling of accomplishment and then I can come back later. Yeah, yeah.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Last year I got myself a really big set that I was like, worked on for months. And because I was like, I couldn't work on it, start to finish and have it done, and I was just like, yeah, I need to do stuff in between because I can't just do this in one go.

[Garrett Wood]

Yeah. And I think a lot of times there's like that time blindness that shows up and then there's also this prioritization and then like this all or nothing kind of like experience that a lot of people have. I know myself. And so having like a big long term one is great, except for, like, if we're just on anxiety and, like excitement and, you know, hyper focus and. But it's going to take months to finish that project. That's a dangerous environment to put yourself in. We got to have something else that's going to help support you as you continue that. Right. Like, you know, with the big LEGO project, you're like, I can't do this in one go. I'd have to not eat, not sleep. I'd have to quit work, have to never see my kids.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah. And I wouldn't enjoy Doing it at the. Doing it that way, so.

[Garrett Wood]

And. Yeah, yep, exactly.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah. It was a good exam test in how to pace myself in certain things and being like, yeah, it's okay to put this away for weeks at a time if I have to.

[Garrett Wood]

Yep. And often that's what shows up with burnout is like people care. They're passionate about the job. A lot of people say like, oh, if you're passionate about what you do, you never work in your day, in your life. And I'm like, that's true for most people that are really passionate. I think if they're passionate about, they're going to always be at work. Especially if they're only passionate about one or two things. Like that's actually dangerous because there's not, you know, they're going to hit a roadblock where like it's going to be a long project and like if that's all they have to get them through, oh, that's. They're not going to be okay. They're going to burn out well before they arrive.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah. It's like enjoying what you do does not mean that it's not still work.

[Garrett Wood]

Absolutely. Yeah. Yep. And that it's not even that it's not dangerous. It can be dangerous because you enjoy it. That's, you know, interesting too.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

Yeah. Especially with like adhd, hyper focus and you're like, oh yeah, I'm, you know, as you, you doing your writing thing earlier, like four hours later, I hated it. And I was like, oh yeah. Because I was used a lot of resources during that time and then kind of needed to refill myself.

[Garrett Wood]

Absolutely. Yep. Yep.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

All right. So I was wondering if you had any final thoughts you wanted to leave the audience with.

[Garrett Wood]

Yeah. So I always think it's interesting if we think about like this myth that we've here in the States we've all been exposed to over and over again that like success requires sacrifice. And if we choose to continue to believe that. Right. We lean into it. If we imagine what our week looks like, our month, our year, the next decade, or if we imagine no sustainable success is actually built through your well being, not at its expense. What is next week, next month, next year, 10 years, 20 years feel like to you to be you working through those things. And so it's just kind of an interesting thought experiment I think for people to kind of get to some of the heart of the myths that kind of drive burnout.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

And if people want to find out more about you and what you do, where should they go?

[Garrett Wood]

Yeah. If they're on the professional social media network LinkedIn. They can find me there. If they want to be more personal, they can find me on Instagram or if they want to reach out, they can find my contact information through the website. And all that's gnosis therapy.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

All right, and I'll keep that all.

[William Curb]

In the show Notes. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

I think people will get a lot.

[William Curb]

Out of this one.

[Garrett Wood]

Yeah, thanks for having me here. It was really fun to be able to share so some of these stories and talk about our dogs together.

[William Curb]

Thanks again to Garrett for coming on the show and thank you for sticking with us all the way to the end. Before you go though, let's do a quick rundown of today's top tips.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

1.

[William Curb]

Understand there are different levels of burnout. If you are getting a full eight hours of sleep but are still waking up exhausted, or if you find yourself unable to calm down after minor inconveniences like getting cut off for traffic, you are likely already heading into stage one or two of burnout. 2. Make sure to pay attention to your specific psychological needs rather than just general advice. Rather than just get eight hours of sleep. You might be someone who needs to get 10 hours in bed to get that actual eight hours of sleep. I mean, I'm not someone who gets in bed and instantly is asleep. It takes some time and I'm a bit restless. Your psychological needs are unique to you.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

And what you need.

[William Curb]

3. If trying to rest and doing nothing feels anxiety inducing, try finding a low stakes activity like organizing some books or doing a puzzle. These kinds of low stakes tasks can provide a sense of accomplishment and soothing without the consequences or pressure of a work project. Alright, that's it. Thanks for listening. I'd love to hear what you thought of this episode. Feel free to connect with me [e-mail] contact if you'd like links or to read this episode's transcript, you can go to the show notes [e-mail] 267 and if you'd like even more hacking your ADHD, consider signing up for my newsletter any and all distractions so it comes out every other week in it. I give it out my best distractions of the week, be they what I'm reading, what I'm playing, or what I'm watching, and anything in between. I also try to give out a few bits of actionable advice in each newsletter, although your mileage is certainly going to vary there. If that sounds like something you're interested in, head on over to hackingyouradhd.comnewsletter to sign up. And also be sure to check out our Patreon that you can [e-mail] Patreon. It's a pay what you want model, meaning that you can give any amount.

[Co-host/Interviewer]

And you can get access.

[William Curb]

Also be sure to sign up for our YouTube channel, which you can [e-mail] hackingyouradhd and finally, if you'd like another way to support the show, the best way to do so is to tell someone about the show, especially if you think a particular episode would resonate with them. Just click the Share button on your podcast player. And now for your moment of dad. The contest for best neck decoration was really close. In fact, it was a tie.

[Libsyn Ads Narrator]

Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsynads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.