Meredith Carter (3:19)

Right. I feel like there always is something.

William Curb (3:21)

And I do think that's a great thing with ADHD is we are fairly good at being like, oh, yeah, there's something that's come up and we're able to kind of adapt because that's kind of nature with adhd.

Meredith Carter (3:33)

Yeah. I think the sooner we accept that there's going to be roadblocks and obstacles, the better we are at coping with them. For sure.

William Curb (3:41)

Yeah. It's definitely something that's important for ADHD to embrace because we are going to drop the ball on a lot of things that we don't know are coming up usually.

Meredith Carter (3:50)

Yeah. And, you know, I think it, like, gets a little more frustrating for us, too, because oftentimes there were a lot of obstacles to even, like, get to an appointment or a call to prepare. It takes us a little more bandwidth to be ready for. For things. And then when we get that unexpected piece that we have to manage, it can be super frustrating. But I'm glad we were both patient with the process and wound up here today.

William Curb (4:15)

Yeah. That is making me think too of this idea of, yeah, there's the unexpected things that we can recover from. But I know there's a lot of shame when there's something that was expected or could have been expected that comes up, you know, like, oh, I couldn't find the paperwork because I was just disorganized. And that's one of those. Like, oh, I, you know, the. I can't believe I did this to Myself again.

Meredith Carter (4:38)

Yeah. I say a lot of times, like, there are certain lessons I have to keep learning over and over again and it can be super annoying to have to do that.

William Curb (4:47)

Yeah. And it's one of those things too, where I'll like look back with rose colored glasses being like, oh, I could have done all of these things. But it's in actuality I have to like, understand like what my capacity is and how much I can actually do. Which was one of those conversations that we were having last time with the idea of like our ambition versus our capacity and how oftentimes we have big ideas, either in the moment or in retrospect, and it doesn't match what we're capable of.

Meredith Carter (5:15)

Yeah, I feel like that's one of the hardest things for many people with adhd. A lot of us are big dreamers. We are great ideators. So we come up with like really creative, unusual ideas. We find ways to solve problems that other people don't see. But when we start wanting to go after some of those things, oftentimes we're not able to make up for like the executive dysfunction we're experiencing. To be able to like kind of bring those ideas into reality sometimes because

William Curb (5:49)

it is very easy for us to forget about the details involved, all the steps that are going to be there and jump to like jump to the end. Be like, this is what I want. All I have to do is aim myself and I'll be, I'll get there.

Meredith Carter (6:01)

Yeah. Nothing ever happens as fast as we want it to with an ADHD brain. I think as well. Oftentimes we want to move quickly. We want to be able to kind of reach that reward. But we struggle with all the boring things that are sort of taking our energy in between.

William Curb (6:20)

Yeah. And it makes it really hard to. And I feel like people have like kind of a couple of reactions sometimes they just keep making that mistake over and over again or they fall into the, well, I just can't do anything.

Meredith Carter (6:31)

That's something I've seen quite a bit with the clients I work with that are, I don't want to say the word old or older because I feel like that is very subjective. But they've been around the block a few times. So they're, you know, the people that have chased some of those ideas that have gone after big goals or even moderate level goals, whatever size of goals that they're looking for. And for whatever reason there were barriers that either they couldn't really identify or that they didn't know how to navigate and they weren't able to accomplish what they wanted to accomplish. So they lose that self trust that the things that they are looking to accomplish are even for them or that they're even capable of completing some of the things they'd like to complete.

William Curb (7:23)

Yeah. And I think it's one of those things we can also have issues with where it is. Some of the times it's not even the big goal that we're struggling with. It's the little goal. And for whatever reason, we have a block somewhere along the way that derails us. And then it's. Yeah, it's the buildup of these. I don't even know how to do anything because I can't. I can't do this simple thing now. Sometimes that's just us being like conflating simple with easy. This is simple. And I was like, well, yeah, but it's not easy.

Meredith Carter (7:52)

Yeah, I really like that you pointed that out. I think one of the most important things for people to realize is that with adhd those simple things are much harder for us. And we, we do conflate those two things. And then that means that we don't want to have a strategy for the simple things. We don't want to get support on the simple things because we think that they should be easy. We should be able to move forward on those without having to make an additional plan or get additional support.

William Curb (8:27)

Which is funny because sometimes, yeah, we have that switch up where, yeah, the harder things are easy because they're stimulating enough where you're like, oh, we can acknowledge that they're hard. And it's like, okay, I'm really working at this, but it makes sense. And so it's stimulating and I can do it. And then my car is a huge mess and I can't find a way to clean it.

Meredith Carter (8:47)

Oh my gosh. I feel called out. My car is always a mess. And it honestly was such a source of shame for me for so long because I was trying so hard to kind of look like that put together person that was getting a lot done on the outside. And then somebody asked if I would ask if I could be the coworker that drove to lunch that day. And I would live in fear that they would jump in my car and see like the rolling trash can it was. Then it would be hard because they would kind of look at you and not be able to reconcile the two versions that see of you. And that can be really confusing for everyone.

William Curb (9:22)

Yeah, there is nothing quite. I remember having someone come over to my house once and I hadn't gotten to the dishes in a week. And they're like, oh, what happened? And I'm like, nothing, nothing happened. I just didn't do it.

Meredith Carter (9:35)

Have you been having a really hard time? And you're like, no, the dishes are always a hard time.

William Curb (9:40)

Yeah. And I was just like, it really stuck with me because there was a lot of shame in that moment being just like, oh, my God. They. Because, you know, it wasn't necessarily what they said, but just the surprise. Like, they're like, they really expected there to be. Have been something going on and they're

Meredith Carter (9:54)

trying to show support and, you know, open a listening ear. But I think that that's where that disconnect comes from. When we have ADHD and we're interacting with neurotypical people most of the time. Is that for you, maybe that was okay? And that's something that you're not choosing to put a lot of bandwidth in and you'll get it done eventually. But for other people, that's. It's hard for them to understand and they see that as a sign of like, oh, something's wrong. I want to, you know, make sure this person is okay. But then we get that message. We're like, no, it sort of can, like you said, it feels, like, shameful because you're like, okay, well, then I should have been able to, like, not have my house looking like this.

William Curb (10:34)

Yeah. And it does come to that idea of capacity again, because often we do stretch ourselves thin doing the things that interest us the most. And so then we do not have the capacity to do the things that need to get done, but we don't really want to.

Meredith Carter (10:49)

I think that understanding what stretches us is super important. And also just accepting that sometimes to kind of go for the things that are most important, some of those less important things will have to either get done later or get done in a different way.

William Curb (11:09)

Yeah, I think the different way is often one of the most important things that we have to go to with ADHD is the way that we've built up how something has to be in our mind. We get this kind of black and white thinking of, like, this is how it has to be and I have to be the one that does it.

Meredith Carter (11:26)

Yeah, that can easily happen, I think, across a lot of different contexts for us.

William Curb (11:30)

Yeah, it's very funny. I remember when I first started my newsletter and I was doing it in a certain way and it took a lot of time and I was just like, ah, man, it sucks that I have to do it this way. And I was like, sat with that thought for like a minute and I was like, I'm my own boss. There's no reason it has to be this way. That's just how I did it the first time I did it.

Meredith Carter (11:49)

I think a lot of ADHDers that are self employed are probably really related to that. At one point, I think I did a thread that said something like, the irony of being an entrepreneur with ADHD is we crave flexibility to do things the way that work for us, but we have incredible shame about doing things the way they work for us.

William Curb (12:14)

Yeah, I remember doing my laundry in a way where I just have like a bunch of bins I just mostly toss things into. And the amount of laundry I get through doing that, I'm like, oh, this just because I had like, drawers were opening, closing, didn't work for my brain and I didn't really want to hang everything up. And I was just like, oh, if I just have a shelf of open bins in my closet, just toss things in there, sure, certain things do need to still be hung up. But like, the reduction in load, I was just like, oh, this small change made it so I just get through this so much easier.

Meredith Carter (12:47)

That's actually a really brilliant idea. I might have to steal that, especially because right before this podcast, I literally was staring at the laundry basket that is washed but has not been dealt with all week, and really finding myself spiraling into the, oh, you've been living out of your laundry basket all week. And I'm like, I stopped before I signed up here. And I was like, why is that a problem? You know, it didn't really impact anyone other than I just had to look at it. But sometimes we do have to, like, really catch ourselves in those patterns of thinking that because we were taught this is the way to do something, that that's the only way. And if there's no negative impact to having the bins in the closet, that feels like a really brilliant way to save capacity for the more important things.

William Curb (13:31)

I just saw the word floor drobe and I went, ooh, how can I make that happen?

Meredith Carter (13:34)

Amazing.

William Curb (13:35)

It's not perfect system yet because it literally. I have. I set up a model version three years ago and then never moved on from that. But it's also. But that goes to what you're saying, like, if it doesn't hurt anything, why do I care? Because in my head I'm like, oh, I should make this nice. Just having a board on some bins works and it's in my closet Where I go, maybe my wife occasionally goes, and that's about it.

Meredith Carter (14:05)

Yeah. I think it is so funny what things we put on our plate that really do not impact anything, you know, and drain us a lot. So thinking about that and thinking about the solutions, I think can really help us get more aligned with the things we want to be doing that are kind of on that bigger scale of interest for us.

William Curb (14:24)

Yeah. Well, especially when we think about. Yeah. If those things that are like that, they also tend to be more draining because they're. We're having to force ourselves to be interested in them. And it's not important really. It's just in our head, it has been assigned, like, oh, this is what adults do. And I think that is a real hard one for me to get past is like, oh, this is what an adult is. And being like that, where did I come up with that definition other than, like, as a child being like, monitoring, like, this is what adults do. I'm like, that's. Adults are everything.

Meredith Carter (15:03)

Yeah. Yeah. We do a lot of things. And I. I think that that load of what adults do has gotten bigger and bigger for us as well. So I think it is. Even if you don't have adhd, I think it's important to spend the time thinking about, like, what do you value spending your time on? And if it's not having a perfectly color co hung up, organized closet, then find another solution.

William Curb (15:27)

Absolutely. And it goes to so many things, like people with how they're supposed to do their planner or have their calendar set up, how their kitchen is organized. And a lot of times it's just. Yeah. Ideas that we've accepted as truth in our head without questioning them. So as we talk about this idea of capacity too, one of the things I also think is really interesting to discuss is how it's also not a consistent thing. And it's really just like, oh, yeah, there's some days where I have a lot, some days where I have a little. But it's kind of hard for us to predict that kind of behavior.

Meredith Carter (15:58)

Yeah. I think that's so important to talk about. I don't know who originally said this, but something that's really resonated with me after I realized I had ADHD is that people with ADHD are sprinters, not marathoners. So we're the people that oftentimes can, like you said, work on that, like, really hard, challenging project and be very, very focused on it if we're interest. But then we're like, kind of exhausted the next day because we Maybe didn't eat our lunch, or we just used so much mental energy, like being locked in on something. And so then the next day, where we're like, well, I was so into that yesterday. Why can't I, like, open my inbox right now? It can be really confusing. And I think we can sometimes think that the reason we can't do that is because we're just not motivated enough and that there's, like, something lacking in us because we can't be consistent in kind of that. That typical way that's expected, when really what serves us better is understanding that. That we're that sprinter and that sprinters need to recover. You don't see that Olympic sprinter. I know it's the Winter Olympics right now, but we all remember the summer ones. You don't see those sprinters just, like, get up and sprint again. Like, somebody is, like, wrapping a towel around them and giving them water, and they're, like, sitting down sometimes, like, right on the side of that track, so they recover before they can make that same kind of effort. And I think just accepting that about our work styles is really important and kind of trying to plan for that recovery period so that when we sense that we're kind of in that really low energy state, we don't just sit there and shame ourselves and try to push through and make it worse. We're like, okay, what if I could close my eyes for 15 minutes and do deep breaths and meditate or do something else that's going to help me build enough energy that I can do a few things today? That so serves us a lot more than just being really upset about the fact that we can't just sprint over and over and over again.

William Curb (17:59)

Yeah, absolutely. And it's one of those things, too, where you often build it up into our head, like, oh, I did this before so I can do it again. And so then we're like, how do I sprint a marathon? That's a bad idea.

Meredith Carter (18:10)

Nobody can do it. I mean, I will say the fastest marathoners are pretty fast. Their pace is my sprint pace, but, like, that's, you know, people with superhuman abilities. But I do think we're trying to sprint marathons often. And the only thing that really does for us is either burn us out or cause us to quit something before we really need to, before we've really seen if it's possible for us.

William Curb (18:36)

Yeah, we, you know, we're trying to sprint up that hill, and we get three quarters of the way up, and we're like, not for me. Oh, if we could have maybe not sprinted up the hill, but you know, took a moderate pace up, we might have gotten over the hill and been like, okay, now I can see where I'm going.

Meredith Carter (18:51)

Yeah. Or even if we sprinted for a little bit of the hill, took a break and sprinted again. Like, however we get there, we can get there. But if we think there's only one way to do it, it's going to feel impossible.

William Curb (19:00)

Yeah. And it's, I think, yeah. The recovery aspect is so important for us to embrace because we're going to take breaks regardless. Just like, oh yeah, there's been no time when I've just continued going forever. Because that's not how anything works. Like we all know it's like, oh yeah, that's of course that wouldn't make sense if I have a planned break where I'm like, oh, I'm going to stop and do this thing that I want to do versus I have a break that happened because I just got distracted and I'm now like looking at my phone and doing something. I'm going to have so much better recovery in that planned break than the one that just happened because I was feeling burned out.

Meredith Carter (19:39)

Yeah, 100%. I think that it feels so much better to be like, I'm going to do this planned activity to rest. We have the acceptance that that that's something that we have to do and that we're human versus like the, the scroll, like you know, being in the doom squirrel for hours and then being mad at ourselves because then we have to like sort through all those feelings too and get re regulated to be able to do anything. So I think planned rest is really, really important. And also just looking frequently at what we think our bandwidth might be and having appropriate expectations for ourself because I think a lot of the pain too comes from our expect of what we're going to be able to do versus what actually happens because of those unplanned breaks. And just the unplanned things of life sometimes get in the way. And if we view our failure to like follow through on something because of those barriers, it's going to be much harder for us to re engage with the project or the task. Hi, I'm Katie Duke and I've been a nurse for over 20 years. Listen, I used to think that I was my most stylish in my 20s, but honestly style and confidence only get better with age. And that is why I love figs. These scrubs are beautiful, comfortable and they are built to last. They're not Those boxy, scratchy uniforms that we all started out in. No, no, no. These fit perfectly. They feel amazing and the quality is just wow. My favorite color, burgundy. It's chic, it's timeless, and it's even the same color as my apartment because I'm kind of obsessed with it. And I love adding custom embroidery to make my scrubs as personal as my style. And since I work in telehealth, my embroidered figs even double as my ID badge. It's never too late to reinvent yourself or your scrubs. Get 15% off your first order at wear figs.com with the code FIGSRX. That's wherefigs.com, code FIGSRX for 15% off your first order.

William Curb (21:45)

Yeah, absolutely. And I, I will give people the. It does take a bit to get yourself into that brain set of. I've planned this break and it is okay that I'm not doing work because I know there will be times where I'm like, I have a planned break, but in my head I'm like, I should still be doing stuff.

Meredith Carter (22:02)

Yeah. And it's something that you have to kind of like strengthen the muscle over time and then kind of like revisit it over and over again. It's not something that like you're gonna somehow develop that mindset and then you're still not gonna have times where you're like, oh, I'm feeling bad about rest. But I think it's something that we can kind of unwind that conditioning that, you know needing to rest is a bad thing and that we should be able to just constantly like do more, more, more. It took me a long time to really like be able to and not just say that and know that and, but actually do it in practice. But I think it's worth it. It's one of the best things I've done for my ADHD is just plan ahead for those breaks. Like make those types of energy building tasks part of my weekly plan versus like when I have time, I'll engage in some of that self care.

William Curb (22:52)

And I think it's also since we have such like interest based and like motivation runs and stuff, it is with their different levels of capacity is instead of just always having the break, having the like stop to plan to go like, oh, you know what? I'm feeling great with what I'm doing right now. I want to keep going. Like, I want like I. I'm feeling good and this is. Taking a break would be detrimental for me. In this case, checking in with Yourself and be like, you know what? I do not want to keep going. I am going to take that break and get back into it.

Meredith Carter (23:21)

Yeah. Yeah. I think I'm a big fan of having check ins set when I like kind of embarking on what I will hope for to be having be like a high focused period. Having that flexibility to just like pause and be like, okay, have I had any water? Have I eaten any food today? Like that, those kind of questions in my head and then having that option to be like, actually I feel really good right now. I have eaten. Let's, let's keep going. I think that helps our brain a lot when we don't like look at it as absolutes, like, oh, you must stop if you're really into writing this thing or working on this project. Because that can feel really painful. But if we override it every time and we're not taking care of like the basics, then we're gonna have a pretty big cost from that.

William Curb (24:06)

Yeah. And looking at the different ways that we want to recover. You know, last week I had like a thing with a friend that I was planning on doing and I was just like, I, I'm gonna have to cancel. Not because I don't want to do it, but I don't have the capacity to do even that level of recovery. I just need to sit here and kind of disassociate for a bit because that's what my brain needs right now and you know, replan like, okay, we'll do that. We'll meet again next week and it'll be fine, you know, but it is hard to, you know, go, yeah, what do I need right now? And then being like, okay, well it's okay if I get what I need because if I don't, I still am going to need it.

Meredith Carter (24:50)

Yeah. Yeah. It's so true. It's not like that need goes away.

William Curb (24:54)

Yeah. So, well, excuse me in thinking to this in terms of planning because so we're talking about planning breaks, but it's moving forward. Like, so we have this idea of capacity of taking breaks and now like just how to create that plan moving forward of like, what do I want to do?

Meredith Carter (25:13)

Yeah. I think that figuring that out is, is a big key and something we have to do often and over and over again.

William Curb (25:22)

Yeah. So how do you structure your planning?

Meredith Carter (25:26)

So there's something that I created in a small membership community that I've been running for a few years now where we have a meeting every Monday and it's just called Monday planning meeting. And we Come in and we spend about 10 or 15 minutes independently planning our week. So I'm not directive. I don't tell people, here's the process to do if people are don't know where to start. You know, people are welcome to like in the chat be like, hey, what do other people do? But people can do whatever they need to do to look at their week and identify intentions. So my process personally during that time is I keep all of my meetings and appointments in my Google calendar, but I need to see it on paper too, to really understand what my week looks like. Looking in that calendar view on my phone does not really give me the picture I need. So I have one notepad that I write down. It's a weekly view, so I'll write down my meetings on there. And then I take it one step further and go to another notepad that's an hourly daily view. So I can look at my week as a whole and see, okay, Monday it looks like I have five meetings. Tuesday I don't have any. And I can then take that more granular approach on the hourly and be like, okay, I'm gonna like, block my calendar for lunch right here. That's a big one that I had learn. It seems so simple, but I have a job where people can book time on my calendar if they have my link. And sometimes that time will show as available. So I'll pencil in and block it so nothing else can go there. I'll also look at the week as a whole and be like, wow, I have a lot of meetings this week. What time do I have for creative projects? Because there's usually something I'm working on that is probably without a deadline. It's probably something that's like, more longer term, but like, needs my attention. So finding time blocks for that is really important. And then I also look at the other domains of my life. So I look at like, what do my kids have going on? I have three kids. So, like this week we didn't have school. Monday we had two half days for parent teacher conferences. So I had an 11:30 pickup versus a 3 o' clock pickup. And so this Monday I said, okay, I'm gonna have to really have pretty low expectations for what's gonna get done. And I had to kind of pick just a couple priorities for any free time on my calendar. And it was actually super helpful. Helpful to like, say out loud to my group. We, we do come together at the end and get about three or four minutes each to share our main intentions or thoughts about the week to kind of make it feel real. And I said, I said, you know what? I'm not gonna beat myself up if my. I show up to my meetings. I, you know, have my inbox taken care of by Friday. And I spend the rest of the time where my youngest is home hanging out with him. He's probably gonna be with his friends and kind of like facilitating that. So it felt a lot different this week to get to Friday knowing that I didn't, like, you know, do a lot of extra stuff this week. There's some things that are gonna have to be attended to next week, but I didn't feel like I was doing something wrong because I couldn't find the time to like, really ramp that up. And there were moments where I probably could have dived into some deeper work, but my brain was toast. I knew we were at bounce house places and arcades and overstimulating environments. And I think in past last weeks like this, I would look at the calendar and be like, well, we got home from the arcade at 3. Why didn't I do work from 3 to 5? And I would have had a lot of stories about that. But, like, the truth is, like, that work wasn't going to be done in a quality way because I was overstimulated. I needed to recover. I needed to kind of recenter. And so I feel a lot better about things this week because I took that time to identify the main priorities on Monday and set expectations with myself about what this week would likely look. Look like. And so I do that on a weekly basis. I also like to plan, and I do a body double for this as well, where I plan like about a quarter at a time in terms of the bigger projects so that I can look at, like, do we have any trips planned? Do I have any conferences to go to? Like, do I have a speaking event? And I'm looking at all of that and then kind of adjusting my expectations for other projects accordingly. And that helps me a lot. And it also helps not get over committed because I can look at that bigger view and be like, oh, even though I want to say yes to this thing, I'm already doing all of these and I know that's going to drain me and that helps a ton.

William Curb (30:05)

Yeah, I do find both the writing out, like, even like, I live by my Google Calendar, but I need to be able to like physically see it every week because it just doesn't feel real otherwise. I'm just. It's these things on the calendar and they. The big biggest thing I need to have is be able to. When I have someone's like, oh, can you do this on a certain day? I'm like, if I have, like, written out my calendar for the week, then I can be like, oh, I have a good picture of what this week kind of looks like. I might forget a few things, but it's. I'll. I'll have and more. I should say not. Even if someone asked me to do something, it's like, I'm like, oh, something's come up. I'm gonna push it. And in my head, I'm like, I'm gonna push this to Tuesday because I have nothing. Some Tuesday. If I haven't looked, I don't actually know that. And I will then look at Tuesday and be like, ooh, that was a big mistake.

Meredith Carter (30:51)

Yeah. And then you're overloaded. You know, that's something that actually has helped me a lot with, like, oh, gosh, I don't even know how to describe this, but it's like, when you have a job like mine where I'm doing things like these podcast interviews, the things that kind of cause some anxiety that, like, are also somewhat optional. Like, there's. When I was first doing this, there would be this, like, pull of. Oh, my gosh, I'm really nervous for this. I want to cancel, you know, and I, like, I wanted to escape that feeling. When I do my calendar enough in advance, I know, okay, I really don't have time to reschedule this. And that anxiety clock is going to start again as soon as I see that again on my calendar. And it's just going to feel worse to kind of, you know, not do the inevitable. And it kind of motivates me to keep commitments even when I might have, like, some resistance to them. Like, it's not a perfect science, because I do think there's times when you really do need to cancel, cancel something or you really aren't in the right brain space. But I think it, like, almost creates the pause. We need to be like, oh, do I really not have capacity to do this right now? Or I just don't really want to. And that can make it easier to show up to things and not kind of procrastinate and delay things.

William Curb (32:08)

Yeah, that was definitely the last record I was canceling with my friend. I'm like, is it that I don't want to go dry, or is it that I'm actually not feeling good and, like, need some recovery? Turned out I definitely needed the recovery because by the end of the day, I was shot when I didn't even do anything. So I was like, oh, I'm so glad I did not go on a big drive to go see.

Meredith Carter (32:26)

Yeah, I think sometimes we just need that pause and then we feel better about the answer. If we have actually been like, okay, am I just reacting in the moment? Because like, with adhd, a lot of us impulsively make decisions, so we need that second to be like, okay, am I really depleted? And if the answer is yes, that's great and you're going to feel less guilt or, you know, resistance about it later. You knew you did the right thing for you. So I think that's important to, to think about.

William Curb (32:52)

So are there some ways that you deliberately try and build in that pause? Because yeah, as you said, a lot of us are very impulsive and just kind of like go with the flow. And then later we're like, oh, I should have paused. But it's something we kind of. It's a skill we have to build.

Meredith Carter (33:05)

Yeah, I, I do think it's a skill we have to build. I have had a lot of practice with it and I'm getting better, but I'm not, not perfect. I do think sometimes if we know we're gonna an ask is gonna be coming at us prepare how we're gonna like delay the decision ahead of time. So I'll give you an example to make that make more sense. Actually, in our Monday meeting, I knew I had two meetings this week that were gonna be like brainstorming, potentially doing some rather large scale projects with other creators in the ADHD industry. And they're both things I want to do so bad. But I also don't know the details of how much time they will take. I don't know exactly what the plans are. I don't know. There's just a lot of information I didn't have yet to be able to like, know if that is actually something I have bandwidth for. So I said to my group, I said, one of my intentions this week is to not say yes on the call. Not. That's not let my excitement about the idea carry me away. And so, like, sometimes I'll even like rehearse language before I know I'm going into a meeting where, you know, I'm going to be tempted to commit to something that I haven't really thought about it because a lot of times it's going to sound good in the moment. But then when I look at my calendar, I'm like, oh my gosh, I already have this, this and this. This is impossible. And I'm going to not enjoy anything I'm doing because I'm stretched so thin. So I think rehearsing, like, language, like, okay, I need to take 24 hours to, like, evaluate my Cal calendar. Something like that can help you pause. You know, when it's just something simple like, should I cancel with my friend? I think that's just, like, a skill we have to build is like, knowing what to ask yourself so that hopefully you will. When. When you. Before you pick up that phone and fire off that text immediately, like, just practicing it over and over again. And then when you don't do that, just reminding yourself without shame, like, hey, this was the consequence of, like, kind of of not pausing. And what can I do in the future to help with that?

William Curb (35:08)

Yeah, I definitely think that without shame reminding yourself, oh, yeah, this is something I struggle with, but I am working on is such an important step to it too, because if negative self talk worked, we'd be masters at everything we're doing. But it does not work. And it tends to just make things a little bit harder next time. But, yeah, just building in that, like, oh, yeah, I'm. I'm expecting an ask, so I'm going to practice the pause there because I. That's. I have the. I have the chance to practice.

Meredith Carter (35:37)

Yeah, we don't always have the chance to practice, but I think the more we are able to execute that pause in the times that we do, it helps us in those other situations kind of like, access that language too, to ask for more time.

William Curb (35:51)

And I think, yeah, it's. Yeah. Having that planning structure, too. Sounds like it would be a great way to, like, yeah. Build in that pause. Because it's so easy to. When we don't have structure to just be, like, going by the seat of our pants. And then it is very much impulsive, like, oh, I have to be making these decisions in the moment.

Meredith Carter (36:10)

Yeah. You know, something that, like a shift. I noticed when I started doing kind of that really intentional weekly planning was like the shift of feeling like I'm just opening my calendar day by day and going day by day and making decisions with any spare time I have based on what was coming at me. So I felt like I was always in a really reactive state. Like, okay, these are the meetings I have, and if I have free time, what do I feel like doing? Or what's like. Feels like it's on fire in my inbox versus now. I feel like a lot more grounded in my entire week. And then I also know that I have, you know, I know where I have flexibility and where I don't, you know, and that helps a lot with not feeling like you're just kind of keeping the wheels on the bus.

William Curb (36:52)

And then also like the act of being like, oh, I'm doing this as, you know, self care and I'm, it's, you know, helping me stay regulated if I am not activating impulsively. Because a lot of times when we are dysregulated, it's like, oh, yeah, impulse is everything.

Meredith Carter (37:10)

Well, yeah, and I think that their regulation is so important for us and it's something that we. We struggle with in so many different arenas. But, like, it sucks our bandwidth when we're constantly having to, like, re. Regulate. So even when it's positive things, those can be dysregulating. So. So having a little bit of a better handle on what's ahead of you and what you might be facing, I think helps you stay kind of more. More regulated and not have to bring yourself back to center as often if you are kind of just taking that big picture view.

William Curb (37:41)

Oh, yeah, 100%. The dysregulation of something coming up that could have been planned for, but I did not is awful. Like, if I haven't been looking at my calendar and then like, like just, you know, doing something else, my phone dings and I like, oh, oh, I have an interview in 20 minutes. Why? Oh, no. I have to, like, get ready. And, you know, most of the time I can manage that in 20 minutes. But there are days where I'm like, that could have been gone way worse.

Meredith Carter (38:14)

Yeah, I mean, I think it's really helpful with ADHD to always plan a little bit of time for, like, the unexpected. Right. Like, even just you and I jumping onto this kind of call, my camera wasn't working. We had to troubleshoot a little bit. So when we have a little bit of a buffer, I think it helps too, because I think that most people that probably listen to your podcast know that people with adhd, we, we struggle to really estimate our time properly too. So sometimes we think we have the time or we think we're ready, but there's an unexpected piece that, like, fell out of our brain. Like the. Oh, I got a. I'm not just jumping on a zoom. When I do a podcast. I need to, like, make sure my microphone's over here and this is working and I have my headphones. There's other steps that sometimes, like, our brain wants to skip and then that, you know, if we skip them. Yeah, we might still show up on time or a minute late, but we feel, like, really, like, discompopulated and, like, we're just coming in hot. You know what I mean? And we're not coming in grounded, and that's not a great way to exist, like, for the majority of our days. Right?

William Curb (39:14)

Yeah. I'm like, sometimes it's been great where I'm just like. Like, I'm amped because I was just running through the house to make sure I got. And I'm like, I am on. I'm doing it. And then other times I'm like, I don't know anything to why I really hope this guest is good at running things, because I am not.

Meredith Carter (39:32)

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we are very good sometimes, like, in the moment, but then that toll is bigger. Right. Like, I feel like I used to live my life coming in hot all the time. Like, I was always arriving, like, a little bit, like. Like something had gotten wrong. I'd already managed a crisis. And I do think we get a little, like, kind of dopamine from that and a little bit of an adrenaline rush, and that can carry us through a lot. But when we're doing that all the time, then there's, like, a lot of recovery that's going to be needed. And it gets harder and harder. Like, I hate to break it to anyone that's on the younger side listening. Like, I find that I can't live like that the way I used to if I want to not burn out. You know, the cost is bigger now. So I think that that extra time we can spend, even though I think. Think it's kind of infuriating and frustrating to have to spend the extra time. There's so many days that I'm like, oh, the Monday meeting. And I'm only showing up because I'm facilitating it. Like, but I'm always glad I do it. It always helps. So whatever that process is, it's going to be individual. Like, I think that trying to, like, think about it as, like, you're helping your future self, like, in ways you probably don't even realize by. By taking the little extra time and leaving the little buffer.

William Curb (40:43)

Yeah. And I do love this point that. Yeah. It. When we are using that. So when we're using our, like, ADHD skills of, like, really dialing in, doing the hyper focus, doing, you know, like, oh, I can perform at a drop of a hat. It is. We are borrowing from our future selves. And that recovery is so much harder.

Meredith Carter (41:04)

Mm. Yeah. So, you know. Yeah. Lean into those Strengths when they're really warranted, when we really have to do that. But, like, let's not operate like that as our default because there's gonna be the cost.

William Curb (41:16)

Yeah, well, and then, you know, if you. When it's great, when you're like, oh, I'm gonna have a performance where I'm going to really lean into this, you know, like, I have a big talk or something, and I'm not going to not prepare, but I'm going to lean into, like, getting the hyper focus and really, like, being the best version of myself there and being like, okay, well, now I can also plan to have a recovery time where I just lie in my hotel room and stare at the. The ceiling for a little bit.

Meredith Carter (41:42)

I have done that many times, and it feels better when it's planned versus, like, now. I can't go to the second day of the conference because I used every ounce of energy I had.

William Curb (41:51)

Yeah. Last conference, after my talk, I lied down in my room and watched Bluey for like an hour and it was great.

Meredith Carter (41:57)

I love that.

William Curb (41:59)

I just like, oh, yeah, this is. I was like, I need something. I'm like, oh, well, Bluey's on the. That Perfect. I die. This is low stakes. This is. Keep me entertained enough.

Meredith Carter (42:11)

Yeah. My. My hotel show is Shark Tank. Like, I. I love just like sitting there and just kind of losing myself in other people's ideas that I don't have to worry about how to figure them out. So that's what I usually end up doing when I'm back in my hotel room is. And I. It's like always on. For some reason, I feel like it's. It's in every hotel room on there for cable.

William Curb (42:35)

Yeah. It's very strange because I'm like, this is not something I'd ever do at home, but perfect year as we're kind of coming to the end here. I'm also just. So we've talked about capacity and regulation, and I guess one of the things that would be great to add into this is this. So we're talking about planning, but, like, how we're setting those goals that we're aiming at is something that I know a lot of people struggle with. They're like, I can. I have all these skills, but I don't even know what I want. So what are some ways that people can think about how to, like, even, like, get that far?

Meredith Carter (43:09)

Yeah, I think it's like, not just the skills that we need to identify. It's what do we value? Sometimes we're good at things that aren't really like a good values fit for us long term. Like, I started my early career doing a marketing type job and I was good at it and I got a lot of praise and that was fun for a while, but it just like wasn't long term lighting me up. And then, you know, there were like, ethical dilemmas for me and certain jobs with that. And so just because I feel like I can, you know, communicate with people in a way that gets them to do something, doesn't mean that I want to like, base my whole career on that. And so finding what those skills are, finding what your values are and kind of matching them I think is really helpful. I think it's also really not just our skills. It's like we need to know what we're struggling with. So. So knowing what takes the most bandwidth from us and finding paths and projects that like, don't necessarily don't include those things at all, but like, aren't predominantly, you know, dependent on being good at that thing or figure out if there's a way for you to get help with that or outsource that or something like that. So I think we have to also know our deficits and we have to know how to either manage them or select a goal that's like the most aligned. It might not be our number one goal that we're excited about, but it might be a lot more realistic than another goal that's like going to ask us to do something that we find horribly boring 80% of the time and the good stuff is only 20%. So thinking about what's going to be aligned with both the skills, values, and help you and have the least amount of like, things that are really challenging for you is, I think, key.

William Curb (45:01)

It also just made me very amusingly think I'm very good at bluffing in games. But honesty is a core value of mine, so I could never do a job where I needed to lie.

Meredith Carter (45:09)

You're not gonna be like one of those professional poker players that's counting the cards. And I really don't know anything about how that works, if that's a loud or not.

William Curb (45:17)

But yeah, but yeah, I do a lot of like, fantasy games where it's like, oh, I have to like, disguise what I'm doing. And, and I, I do remember I couple weeks ago, I really made my kids upset when I bluffed them very hard. And they like, they, they just like, we know what's going on. And then like, we, the game ended and they're like, no, that's not okay.

Meredith Carter (45:39)

Oh, no.

William Curb (45:42)

And I don't know what to tell you guys. I'm really good at lying. I don't do it often.

Meredith Carter (45:48)

Yeah.

William Curb (45:48)

All right. Are there any final thoughts you want to leave the audience with?

Meredith Carter (45:52)

You know, I think the one thing that came up a few times in this discussion about ambition is that that piece where we have to like, build the self trust, I don't think you really touched on that. And there's not a lot to say there. I mean, there is a lot to say, but not a lot I can say very quickly. But I think that oftentimes that can be the first step when you do want to embrace your ambition a little bit more is to work on rebuilding that first first because that's what's going to carry you through. When you do find your capacity is stretched, then you can learn to trust yourself to adapt and take from another area so that you can keep going. Without that, I think it's really hard to, to move forward on a lot of things. So it's something I see a lot with ADHD years is that they spend a lot of years like, you know, running up against barriers that they, they only start to really understand once they get a diagnosis or they start diving into what ADHD means for them. And sometimes we have to kind of get in that, that headspace again, that just because something was hard or felt impossible before doesn't mean that we can't find a different way to do it that works for us. So building that trust is. Is key.

William Curb (47:10)

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on and thank you for your patience and coming back back. Really appreciate it. I think there's a lot in this conversation.

Meredith Carter (47:18)

I'm glad we were able to make it happen this time.

William Curb (47:21)

Thanks again to Meredith for coming on the show and thank you for sticking with us all the way to the end. Before you go though, let's do a quick rundown of today's top tips. One, Often we conflate these ideas of simple with easy. And because simple tasks can lack the stimulation of more complex problems, they sometimes require more deliberate strategy and Support, not less. 2. High level ideation can be a strength, but it is separate from executive function. We have to learn to reconcile our big dreams with our actual current bandwidth to avoid the cycle of losing our own self trust when we fail to reach some of these unrealistic goals. Three, Being good at something doesn't mean that you have to or even necessarily need to do it, especially if it isn't something that you are particularly interested in setting goals based on personal values rather than just skills helps ensure that the 20% of the boring stuff required to reach the goal doesn't outweigh the 80% of interest that keeps us going. Alright, that's it. Thanks for listening. I'd love to hear what you thought of this episode. Feel free to connect with me over@hackingyouradhd.com contact if you'd like links or to read this episode's transcript, you can go to the show notes page@hackingyouradhd.com 287 and if you'd like even more hacking your ADHD, be sure to sign up for my newsletter any and all distractions, which comes out every other week. In it, I give out my best distractions of the week, be they what I'm reading, what I'm playing, what I'm watching, and everything in between. I also try to give out a few bits of of actionable advice in each newsletter, although your mileage is going to vary there. If that sounds like something you're interested in, head on over to hackingyouradhd.com newsletter to sign up. Also, be sure to check out our Patreon, which you can find@hackingyouradhd.com Patreon it's a pay what you want model, meaning all levels of Patreon receive all the same stuff, which right now mostly consists of some behind the scenes access and early access to all the episodes. You can also check out the hackingradyhd discord at hacking radio, hackingyouradhd.com discord and our YouTube channel, which you can find@YouTube.com ackingyouradhd and finally, if you'd like another way to support the show, the best way to do so is to tell someone about the show, especially if you think a particular episode would resonate with them. Just click the Share button on your podcast player. And now for your moment of dad. Actually, if you think about it, the Alphabet is quite terrifying. A, B, C no thank you. I do not need an entire sea of bees.

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