Tex and Jinx 54-11-24 Tex McCrary and Jinx Falkenberg, Guest Fred Allen

Summary

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Tex and Jinx with Fred Allen (Tex and Jinx 54-11-24)

Harold's Old Time Radio – February 21, 2026
Setting: Peacock Alley, Waldorf Astoria, New York
Hosts: Tex McCrary and Jinx Falkenburg
Special Guest: Fred Allen

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Episode Overview

This episode, broadcast live from Peacock Alley in the Waldorf Astoria, features radio legend Fred Allen. The discussion focuses on Allen’s storied career in radio, the shifts brought by television, his satirical memoir Treadmill to Oblivion, and behind-the-scenes tales from the golden age of broadcasting. Through wit and candor, Allen reflects on the pressures and quirks of the entertainment industry, media evolution, and offers comic glimpses into personalities like Jack Benny and the radio “executives.” The warm, bantering tone between Allen and the hosts makes for a lively, nostalgia-filled hour.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Fred Allen: Comedy’s “Treadmill to Oblivion”

• Introduction & Identity: Allen is humorously introduced as "a sour faced man with saddlebag eyes and a voice that sounds like he’s filing his teeth" (00:57). Allen quickly responds with his signature deadpan, “That’s not true, Tex. I never file my teeth. I keep them in my mouth at all times, morning, noon and night.” (01:08)
• Career Reflection: Allen discusses his new book, Treadmill to Oblivion, which chronicles his years in radio. He describes the comedian's fate as being trapped in a mechanized, ephemeral world—entertaining millions, yet remembered only in echoes of laughter and IRS receipts (03:46, 04:39).
• Radio vs. Television: The conversation explores how television displaced radio personalities, transforming both medium and audience.

“When a radio comedian's program is finally finished, it slinks down memory lane into the limbo of yesterday's happy hours. All that the comedian has to show for his years of work and aggravation is the echo of forgotten laughter and some receipts from the Treasury Department.”
—Fred Allen (04:39)

2. The Mechanization of Entertainment

• Competing with “the Machine”: Allen explains his book’s title—radio forced performers onto a relentless, mechanical treadmill, ultimately leaving the individual behind (03:46-04:14).
• Physical & Psychological Toll: He recounts 700+ hours of radio and describes how the pressure led to illness—“not from reading the jokes, but... from pressure and work and sustained aggravation.” (04:14)

3. The Absurdity of the Industry

• Advertising Agencies: Allen lampoons agencies as “85% confision and 15% commission,” reflecting early days where sponsors and their families dictated program content—sometimes with odd results, e.g., a sponsor’s wife demanding weekly organ solos piped in from two miles away (23:14–24:50).
• Sponsors and Products: He humorously reflects on sponsors: “If it's within the law, I don't see why I should be concerned. People are in a legitimate business and they want to sponsor me or they can legally advertise. I don't see why I should be the one to say I don't want to be associated with it.” (29:18)
• Quiz & “Giveaway” Shows: Allen derides giveaway/quiz programs as "the buzzards of radio" (37:45). He details how his show insured listeners up to $5,000 so they wouldn’t jump ship when quiz shows called during his airtime (39:41).

“Radio is dying, the giveaway programs forced people to give away their radios. In fact, you call giveaway quiz programs the buzzards of radio.” —Jinx, relating Allen’s own words (37:45)

4. Radio’s Lost Flexibility (and Comedy Gold)

• Timekeeping Nightmares & Executive Interference: Allen tells how radio executives with “mother-of-pearl gongs” would cut off his shows mid-punchline to stay on schedule. He details a legendary routine satirizing this, culminating in an NBC vice president “living on borrowed time” earned by shaving seconds from broadcasts (41:43–43:07).
• Creative Problem-Solving: Sometimes, the solution was to roll the show’s ending into the following week—showcasing radio’s unique, if at times chaotic, character (44:19).

5. The Allen-Benny Feud & Comedic Legacy

• A Dramatic Reading: In a playful nod to old routines, Jinx and Allen reenact part of the classic “feud” with Jack Benny, swapping deadpan barbs about Benny’s mythical heroics and bad violin (49:11–52:16).

“The first time I met Benny was in Illyrio, Ohio. He was doing a monologue with a pig on the stage.”
—Fred Allen (50:42)

6. Fan Interactions, Influence, and Reflections

• Listener Mail: Listeners call in, expressing admiration. Allen is asked to define “wit” and nominate the wittiest men on radio—he lavishes praise on James Thurber for written humor and notes the impossibility of picking just one (33:03–34:10).
• Wit vs. Delivery: Allen thoughtfully observes, “They're both very important because the man who writes it can't deliver it. And the man who delivers it has nothing to deliver unless the man writes it. They help each other. One complements the other.” (34:15)
• Media’s Relentless Change: Changes in sponsorship reality, content, and even the hosts’ own memories are discussed with gallows humor.

7. Imagination: Radio vs. TV

• Allen asserts radio’s superiority in stimulating imagination:

“I think you get more, better attention from the audience because the audience has to join you and use a little imagination. Where on television you have no imagination at all, including the people who are pushing the cameras around.” (45:08)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Treadmill of Showbusiness:
  “Whether or not he knows it, the successful comedian is on a treadmill to oblivion... all that the comedian has to show for his years of work and aggravation is the echo of forgotten laughter and some receipts from the Treasury Department.” (Fred Allen, 04:39)
• On Ad Agencies:
  "Advertising agency as being 85% confident, fusion and 15% commission." (Jinx, 23:14)
• On Sponsor Influence:
  “The sponsor’s wife liked organ music...and right in the middle of our comedy program every week, we had to have an organ solo. And then when the woman found out that the organ was not in the studio, that it was two miles away...we had to announce that the organ is not in the studio. It’s two miles away.” (Fred Allen, 24:29)
• On Quiz Shows:
  "The giveaway programs forced people to give away their radios. In fact, you call giveaway quiz programs the buzzards of radio." (Jinx, 37:45)
• On The Allen-Benny "Feud":
  “Jack is a wonderful fellow. I don’t think Jack is an enemy in the world. And I certainly wouldn’t start a trend.” (Fred Allen, 52:25)
• On Audience Imagination:
  "You can create an atmosphere or establish a locale at a microphone, but you can’t do that in television unless somebody paints a scene or unless the camera is at a certain angle. And it seems to me that television is a triumph of machine over people." (Fred Allen, 45:08)
• On Aging Out in Entertainment:
  “No, I left radio partly. Radio left me. And then I...I got the idea and I left Ready. Now, I was ill at the time and I had to quit for a while. By the time I got better, radio had sort of gone over the hill.” (Fred Allen, 44:49)

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Important Timestamps

• [00:57]– Fred Allen warmly introduced; comic repartee immediately begins.
• [03:40]– Allen explains the meaning of "Treadmill to Oblivion."
• [04:39]– Reads poignant lines about the fleeting legacy of a radio comedian.
• [23:14]– Skewers ad agencies for absurd influence over program content.
• [29:18]– On sponsor acceptability: everything legal is fair game.
• [37:45]– On the "buzzards of radio": giveaway quiz shows and their impact.
• [41:43]– Behind the scenes: executives cutting programs mercilessly.
• [49:11]– Reading a script from the classic Jack Benny “feud.”
• [52:25]– Allen on his real relationship with Benny.
• [45:08]– On the power of radio imagination vs. TV distraction.
• [57:00]– Listener call from the “Silk Stocking District”; more deadpan humor.

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Structure and Flow

• The show is structured around an informal, humorous conversation interwoven with listeners’ calls, reminiscences, and on-air readings reinforcing Allen’s wit.
• Major topics include the changing business and creative climates of mid-century broadcasting, comic anecdotes, and friendly parody skits.
• Frequent callbacks to Allen's new book are peppered throughout, connecting personal nostalgia to industry-wide changes.

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Conclusion

This episode is a masterclass in conversation and comic timing. Fred Allen’s insights on the entertainment industry’s shift from radio to television, his wry perspective on advertising’s incursion, his affectionate sparring with hosts, and his humility about his own legacy provide a lively, heartfelt, and often laugh-out-loud look at showbusiness. Even as he mourns radio’s passing, Allen’s enduring sharpness and warmth serve as a gentle celebration of a golden era.

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Transcript

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[Texas McCrary]

Good afternoon, this is Texas McCrary.

[Jinx]

This is Jinx. It's Cascade time and we're speaking to you as we do every day, five days a week from 1 to 2, in Peacock Alley of the Waldorf Astoria.

[Texas McCrary]

And I'm afraid I'm about to libel our guest today. He's been described as, quote, a sour faced man with saddlebag eyes and a voice that sounds like he's filing his teeth.

[Fred Allen]

That's not true, Tex. I never file my teeth. I keep them in my mouth at all times, morning, noon and night.

[Jinx]

Yes, the voice.

[Fred Allen]

If I did file them, I'd file them under tea. The teeth. Teeth for two Liberace theme theme songs.

[Jinx]

That's the voice. And that means Fred Allen is our guest today. No doubt about it. Nobody could disguise their voice and imitate you, could they?

[Fred Allen]

I doubt it very much. Rudy tried it and I drove him back to the woods. Rudy? Rudy came out of Maine. No, not Rudy Halley. The former Rudy. The original Rudy. Rudy Halle is an imposter. Rudy Valley. You don't remember Rudy Valley?

[Jinx]

Oh, yes, but I thought you said the boy.

[Fred Allen]

Maine. Yes, Maine has two things. It's the only state in the Union that has a bath and the only state that side. Rudy Valley.

[Jinx]

Well, this voice, belonging to the one and only Fred Allen, is the voice that gave us the best in radio entertainment for 17 years and was displaced with the advent of television.

[Fred Allen]

Now, the voice watching TV only your

[Texas McCrary]

high blood pressure and radio's low blood pressure.

[Fred Allen]

That's right.

[Texas McCrary]

Well, right now you can see the voice. Hear the voice and see the face together every Sunday night on another network whose initials are CBS on a program called what's My Line? And if, by the way, were you ever a mystery guest on what's my Line?

[Fred Allen]

Yes, I was on. I've been on it twice as a mystery. Twice as a mystery guest in. On radio. And I wasn't guest in radio, but on television I was.

[Texas McCrary]

How did you disguise your voice? What voice did you take?

[Fred Allen]

I talked in a voice or the dummy's voice. And it didn't work out very well because it finally got up in my nose and Steve Allen caught me. He was on the program at that time.

[Texas McCrary]

Well, I think that if anybody asks you what's your line now, I would like to suggest that it's Arthur, author of a new book called Treadmill to Oblivion. And I don't know why the doctors would prescribe it, but certainly friends of all patients should. It's the best book for anybody in a hospital unless they have suffered an operation that leaves them in stitches.

[Fred Allen]

This is bad for stitches. They'll keep you in stitches. I mean, this, this book, I hope you don't have to be in the hospital to read it. You know, you can read it outside. And it's also not the book of the month either. You don't have to read it this month. It'll quick frozen then. You can keep it till next month. You can read it next month, too.

[Jinx]

Could you just explain, Mr. Fred Allen, what treadmill to oblivion means? Why you called it that.

[Fred Allen]

Well, I called it that because any successful person, or especially a comedian who gets involved in the mechanized version of the entertainment world has to compete with the machine. And of course he has to lose the battle because the machine is going to survive and the comedian is going to. I treat comedians because I know more about them and was formerly and am currently an alleged comedian.

[Jinx]

But treadmill to a machine?

[Fred Allen]

Well, you're on a treadmill if you're on. We did 700 and some odd hours during the 18 years we were on radio. And ultimately the machine is still here, the microphone is still here. And I became ill not from reading the jokes, but I mean from pressure and work and sustained aggravation and things like that.

[Jinx]

You just read the last couple of lines in your book.

[Fred Allen]

Well, that tells you when a radio comedian's. Whether or not he knows it, the successful comedian is on a treadmill to oblivion. When a radio comedian's program is finally finished, it slinks down memory lane into the limbo of yesterday's happy hours. All that the comedian has to show for his years of work and aggravation is the echo of forgotten laughter and some receipts from the Treasury Department.

[Jinx]

But that's sad.

[Fred Allen]

It is sad, but it's true. Everything that's true is sad in a way.

[Jinx]

Echoes of forgotten laughter.

[Fred Allen]

Laughter. That's true.

[Jinx]

Look, Ambassador Henry Cabot Lodge walking by

[Fred Allen]

and waving and grinning. Waving. We're on a short wave. Then even the senator went by with a short wave.

[Jinx]

I know Fred Allen will be back in a moment. We have a couple of notes right here.

[Fred Allen]

Tex, there's a leak in the UN or something.

[Jinx]

You know what they do? They sneak right through here and they go into that door which is the entrance to the tower's elevator. It's sort of the.

[Fred Allen]

That's a bad day. Maybe they moved the UN over here.

[Texas McCrary]

No, all the ambassadors come home to lunch.

[Fred Allen]

Oh, do they?

[Texas McCrary]

Yeah, right here.

[Fred Allen]

That's a sort of a diplomatic Capistrano then.

[Texas McCrary]

Okay, we're going to take a break, get some news and handle a note. And then back with Fred Allen. Jenks. Let's tell certain people listening to us about a very interesting guessing game and the prize that goes with it. And this has not stopped the music.

[Jinx]

By certain people, you mean expectant mothers, Right?

[Texas McCrary]

And fathers, too.

[Jinx]

See if you can guess the exact date that the baby will be born

[Texas McCrary]

or whether it will be a boy or a girl.

[Jinx]

And if you guess correctly, our sponsor, Cascade Diaper Service, will award a total of 3 months free diaper service if either or both parents, at least 14 days prior to the actual date of birth, guess correctly, the date of birth and two weeks for die for service. If either guesses correctly whether it's a boy or girl. Of course, it's not cricket for the expectant mother to say it's a girl and the father to say it's a boy, then everyone would win. And that's not a contest anymore. Let's repeat that to avoid misunderstanding. As to a boy or girl, only one parent can venture a guess. But as to the date of birth, both parents may participate. So all of you expectant parents, why don't you drop us a postcard at NBC or call or write Cascade Diaper Service, giving your name, address and the birth date that you've selected, or if it's a boy or girl, this places you under no obligation whatsoever. But if your guess is correct, you can win either one or both of the two valuable Cascade Diaper Free services. Plus, we will announce your baby's name and date of birth on this program as soon as possible after you notify Cascade 10 Diaper Service. Cascade serves all of New York, Brooklyn, Long island and New Jersey. Fred Allen, text us 5 minutes of news now from the WRCA newsroom and then we'll be on until 2 o' clock with you.

[Fred Allen]

My book looks well in a diaper. I've never seen it, but I imagine it would. If you have no children, wrap it in a diaper and take it home. It might be pleasant around the house.

[Jinx]

What's this, Joan Bank? Well, I can't read it.

[Texas McCrary]

John Bancroft just called up to say Fred Allen also has echoes in the hearts of millions of his listeners, both on radio and television.

[Fred Allen]

That's very nice.

[Jinx]

Thank you, Joan. Now the news text.

[Texas McCrary]

A bulletin just in from Hong Kong. The Chinese Communist Public Security Ministry said today that 124American spies, in quotes, have been captured and 106 killed since 1951. This bulletin, issued by Pei Ping, followed by 24 hours the announcement that 13Americans had received jail terms of four years to life imprisonment on spy charges. Former Commerce Department employee William Remington died today in prison after an attack by other prisoners who beat him with a brick. This happened in Lewisburg, Pennsylvania. A prison announcement says an operation was performed yesterday. Prison authorities also say they have a good idea who Remington's assailant, but they have not given out any details yet. Remington was sentenced in February 1953. He was convicted of lying when he denied transmitting government material to a confessed Red agent. And when he denied knowing a Communist Party unit existed at Dartmouth College when he was a student there. Prison spokesmen are discounting rumors that the attack on Remington was the start of a demonstration against the scheduled release of Al jhes on Saturday. Hiss, a former State Department employee, also has been serving time in Lewisburg on a perjury conviction. In Owasso, Michigan, a heart attack has taken the life of Mrs. Annie Dewey, mother of Governor Thomas E. Dewey of New York. Mrs. Dewey, a widow, died in her sleep last night at her home. She was 77 years old. Governor Dewey is on his way to Owasso from Miami Beach, Florida, where he went yesterday for a two week vacation. The governor's wife, Mrs. Dewey, who had expected to join her husband in Florida this weekend, will leave for Michigan this afternoon. Representative Franklin D. Roosevelt, Jr. Said today that he will return to what he describes as the full time practice of law. The defeated Democratic liberal candidate for Attorney general made his statement after what he said was an offer from Governor elect Averell Harriman to have him on what was called Harriman's team. At a news conference in the Governor Elect Park Avenue headquarters. Harriman said no specific post had been offered to young Roosevelt overseas. Former President Herbert Hoover said in West Germany today that the sole purpose of Western alliances and armament is to convince the Communists that it would be futile to start a war. Hoover said the agreements to rearm West Germany must be ratified or the security of Europe will depend on what he called the malevolent will of the Communists. A former clerk for the British Home Guard, John Clarence has pleaded innocent in London to charges of obtaining military information calculated to be useful to an enemy. He's accused for one thing, of obtaining information about Britain's anti aircraft defenses. French Premier Mendes France returned to Paris today from his official visit to Canada and the United States. And Britain's Queen Mother Elizabeth arrived home in London after her visit to the same two countries. Queen Elizabeth was among those on hand to greet her mother. Jakob Malik of Russia arrived in New York by plane today to take over temporarily as chief Soviet UN Delegate following the death Monday of Andrey Vishinsky. Malik flew in from London where he's Russian ambassador, and was speeded through customs. The body of Vishinsky, who died of a heart attack, has reached Paris on its way to Moscow. The Soviet UN Delegate will receive a state funeral in Moscow's Red Square. The New York City Planning Commission has rejected a proposal by Park Commissioner Robert Moses to spend more than seven and a half million dollars on six new recreation centers. The commission acted unanimously to follow a recommendation of Budget Director Abraham Beam, disapproving the proposal. There probably be some fireworks before the sun goes down tonight. Weather forecast on another front, cloudy with rain this afternoon and tonight ending early tomorrow. Not much change in temperature with the highest temperature this afternoon and again tomorrow afternoon, 45 to 50 degrees. Lowest tonight in the 40s. But as anybody knows, especially if you buck the traffic, it's a miserable day in our town.

[Jinx]

I'd like to ask you, Fred Allen, author of Treadmill to Oblivion, if anything, oops.

[Texas McCrary]

Describe what happened.

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[Fred Allen]

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[Fred Allen]

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[Fred Allen]

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[Fred Allen]

See valsparpro.com for details. I thought it was a burlesque show. It's down in here. Look like a striptease. You can't depend on these. Well, I don't know. What is a zipper snapper?

[Jinx]

Usually I can't depend on zippers, but this is just a snap.

[Fred Allen]

I thought you'd strung a zipper or go on a diet.

[Jinx]

As I started to talk to you, you see, I put my hands on my hips and I was sort of pushing my. Flexing, flexing, pushing my shoulders back. And with that the top of my dress just popped. Well, snapped open.

[Fred Allen]

Fortunately, this is still radio. Save the day.

[Jinx]

And fortunately I'm very well equipped.

[Fred Allen]

Below. Yes, I. I refer you to text

[Jinx]

for this in the way of color.

[Fred Allen]

The choice of adjectives would be better here.

[Jinx]

I mean protect clothes. Clothes, clothes.

[Fred Allen]

Yes.

[Jinx]

Well, anyway, Brett Allen, did anything I

[Fred Allen]

knew that you had a turtle neck evening gown on? Unfortunately.

[Jinx]

Did anything funny happen to you on the way to the Waldorf?

[Fred Allen]

When I got here, almost. No, there was nothing that happened today. It was raining. It's always fair weather when good fellows get together. And I was coming over to meet you and it was pouring rain.

[Jinx]

Yes, but weren't you someplace before? I mean, I know you were.

[Fred Allen]

Oh, today I was at the dentist. I just came from the dentist. I want to make a miserable day. It's awful outside and I wanted to be miserable inside, so I went to the dentist. I didn't have any work to be done. I'd just go up there and sit around and gripe a while. That's very reasonable with no instruments.

[Jinx]

You don't mean it. He wasn't really doing anything to your teeth.

[Fred Allen]

Well, I just go up there and keep him busy because he's not too active. And what's the tooth among friends? I let him go and drill if he likes to, or whatever he likes to do.

[Jinx]

Do you like dentists especially?

[Fred Allen]

Well, I don't dislike them. I mean, they're necessary evils, actually.

[Jinx]

Is this dentist a good friend of yours?

[Fred Allen]

Yes, his name is Dr. Pickard. Incidentally, Dr. Pickard. It's an odd name for dentist. He happens to be a very good dentist, as far as I know. Picard. It's true. P, I, C K, H A r, d, t. Dr. Pickard, would you ever

[Jinx]

want a dentist for a sponsor on radio or television?

[Fred Allen]

I would think so, because then if you have a comedy program, I think it would be very helpful for dentists because if you got any laughs at all, he could look at the audience and know whether they had teeth or did not have teeth, and then he wouldn't have to bother with people or coming to the studio. I think it would be very good for. As a matter of fact, out in California there was two or three painless dentists had radio programs on the air out there.

[Jinx]

You know, NBC, of course, has a new television program about doctors called Medic.

[Fred Allen]

New Bicuspid's Account. I mean, that's NBC, isn't it?

[Jinx]

Yes.

[Fred Allen]

Incidental slogan.

[Jinx]

They have new bicuspids count.

[Fred Allen]

Well, that's the best I could do. Or new bicuspids cavity or something, if there's a verb for cavity.

[Jinx]

You mean you think they could do a program about dentists as they're now doing one? Oh, I would call Medic.

[Fred Allen]

Oh, sure. I think that they've brought enough pain into the world. Well, Medic is the answer to the pain that radio has brought into the world. I think they're trying to. To make amends for the many years of the soap operas and the grief and tears, you know, that you had in the morning.

[Jinx]

You know, I'd like to ask you a question, Fred Allen. That's what I've been doing anyway, and I will continue to do. But this one just occurred to me.

[Fred Allen]

Not one long question. It'll take the whole rest of the program.

[Jinx]

Oh, no, I don't do that. We compete at this time one to two with soap operas on other networks.

[Fred Allen]

That'd be pretty lathery today with this

[Jinx]

rain or the tears.

[Fred Allen]

They lather themselves with their tears at

[Jinx]

8:30 in the morning. We didn't have the problem of getting an audience at 8:30 in the morning. We had the people driving to work, the men who went to business, the women who were on their way to shops or hairdressing salons or whatever they did. Now we have to compete with those who are at home and might be home for some hours and are used to listening every day to a story, a continued story that has tears and laughs. And, you know, why can't. What can you do for us today to get that audience?

[Fred Allen]

Well, it's. If they're listening to the other or looking at the other shows at the moment, there's nothing we can do except sneak up behind them, go from door to door with the script. I'll be glad to join you if you have the time. I don't know what you can do about that. I would think that in that great segment of tears and grief and aggravation and trouble that they have on those, most of those shows that this Would be a happy relief in that period. I would think that your program, your hour with the news and a few pleasant guests and some laughter Would be a pleasant intermission.

[Jinx]

Of course, it's change of pace every day, and maybe audiences prefer at this time of the day to know what they're going to look forward to. You know, they can remember what they heard yesterday. They know. They know they're going to pick up where they left off.

[Fred Allen]

I don't know personally. Those don't entertain me at all. I would rather much listen. Rather listen to some show of this nature. If I was happened to be home at this time. If I was home, I'd probably be listening to you with.

[Jinx]

With fred allen. You'd like to hear that program, would you?

[Fred Allen]

Well, no, I wouldn't run home now and it's raining to hear myself. But if I happened to be home and I was on, I certainly would listen to myself.

[Jinx]

Where is Mrs. Fred Allen?

[Fred Allen]

She's at the beauty parlor. She had a permanent wave last week and it didn't come off or something. It was a temporary one when it got home or something happened to her, something. So it's going to be done all over again today.

[Jinx]

She's not listening now.

[Fred Allen]

Unless they have some facilities in the beauty parlor and if they can't get a permanent to last more than one week, I doubt if they've heard about radio yet.

[Texas McCrary]

What's the name of the beauty parlor? Do you know where your wife goes?

[Fred Allen]

I think it's on 56th Street. R O b e I t. I'm

[Texas McCrary]

gonna go look up the number and we're gonna call her.

[Jinx]

Oh, that would be wonderful.

[Fred Allen]

I guess she's. I don't know whether she's.

[Texas McCrary]

This.

[Fred Allen]

We'll probably ruin this wave, too.

[Jinx]

You mean it didn't take last week's permanent?

[Fred Allen]

I don't think all of it took. I just think it was permanent on the side. One side or something. I don't know. I don't understand those things.

[Jinx]

We'll be back in a moment, Fred allen, but time for a commercial. I'm about to make one of the most startling free offers that certainly we've ever made on the air. We want to tell you about our sponsor, cascade laundry. We're going to make a free trial offer of laundry service. Absolutely free laundry service. And what we hope to prove are the statements that we've been making on this program that cascade is the biggest, the best and among the safest, most dependable of all laundries, that the cascade plant is the cleanest, their machinery the most modern, their workers the best trained. And it therefore follows that Cascade does better work, which costs no more. We use Cascade. We know, but we'd like you to know, too. So here comes the offer. Cascade will give any new customer a free trial of laundry service. Yes, I repeat, absolutely free. I'd like to see how many of you will call Cascade in the next half hour or drop a postcard addressed to us, Texan Jinx, wrca, or to Cascade and say, I just heard your radio offer. Send me a gift certificate for a free trial offer of laundry service. That's all there is to it, but do it today, please. Fred Allen, AUTHOR OF TREADMILL to OBLIVION we want to check some of the stories that you've written about in your book, which is really so, so full of laughs. Why do you describe.

[Fred Allen]

It's just a story of one radio program and it's conception and its birth and its life and its death, and that's confined to that with some of the better scripts and some of the alley things in there. It's very amusing, actually. I have this good opinion from Mr. Thurber and Mr. Steinbeck and Herman Wolk and Alan Smith, and the reviews have been very flattering on the book.

[Jinx]

In your dedication, you dedicate it to poor Portland, who stayed in a closet until I finished writing this book.

[Fred Allen]

Well, I had to have some privacy, and she cooperated and she was very helpful.

[Jinx]

And then you added on the next page, Ed o', Connor, who has the memory of an Elephant, helped me with this tome. Ted Weeks, who has the energy of a Beaver, also helped. It proves that with an elephant's memory, a beaver's energy and two friends, a radioactor can write a book.

[Fred Allen]

That's right, Ed o'. Connor. I think it was his original idea to have the book because he used to listen to our program when he went to college. And he's a writer up in Boston. He's currently working on the Boston Post and working on writing a novel. And he liked our programs during his college years, so he thought it was a shame to have them all disappear or have no record of them. So he discussed it with Mr. Weeks, who was the editor of the Atlantic Monthly. And so that's how the whole thing started. And then Ed went ahead and went through the many years of scripts that we had, and he selected ones that he thought were the outstanding ones that he would like to hear again or read again. And those are the ones we have.

[Jinx]

We're going to try a bit of one of Those later when I warm up a little, huh? Why do you describe an advertising agency as being 85% confident, fusion and 15% commission?

[Fred Allen]

Well, because in the. In the early days of radio, these men who are good, competent businessmen, I certainly were good advertising men, were thrown into another business that they didn't understand and they didn't know anything about show business or actors. And consequently, they treated all of us the way they treated their copy or their tomatoes or the things that they were trying to sell or advertise in the other media until radio got started. And consequently, they were forcing their opinions on the actors. And the things that the audience got

[Texas McCrary]

were

[Fred Allen]

the likes and dislikes of their friends and relatives and close associates. You know well, don't you? I mean, they foisted their tastes on the general public. I mean, if a man liked. If a sponsor liked a violin player, he had a violin player on his own. The people may not like violin players, as proven by Jack Benny's career. He was forced into comedy off the musical, off the concert stage.

[Jinx]

Didn't you even have a sponsor's wife who made suggestions, who contributed to your program?

[Fred Allen]

That's true. In the early days, on our first program, the Leonard program program, we had, the sponsor's wife liked organ music. And right in the middle of our comedy program every week, we had to have an organ solo. And then when the woman found out that the organ was not in the studio, that it was two miles away from the studio and was piped in,

[Texas McCrary]

this

[Fred Allen]

electronic marvel astounded her, and she thought that the people should be let in on that. So we had to announce that the organ is not in the studio. It's two miles away. Oh, and if you didn't believe it, you could go walk it. As far as we were concerned, it was uphill too.

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[Jinx]

Take the scenic route at Abercrombie's new spring collection, designed for weekend getaways full

[Fred Allen]

of layers like sweaters, dresses and matching

[Jinx]

sets that take you from happy hour straight to a weekend upstate. The piece on everyone's radar is Their new reversible trench coat.

[Fred Allen]

It's navy on one side and a

[Jinx]

coastal plaid on the other. The perfect spring staple.

[Fred Allen]

Get your closet ready for spring plans.

[Jinx]

Shop Abercrombie in the app, online and in stores. How did you get your first sponsor on radio, Fred Allen?

[Fred Allen]

Well, I was in the shows. I was in the show with the last show with Clifton Webb and Libby Holman Frieza crowd. And I was going to do a show in the fall and something happened to it. And at that time radio was coming along and fellows were getting in it. Ed Sullivan was in it and Jack Benny and Eddie Cantor and Ed Wynne. They were just starting in it. And so it was interesting and we started to audition. We auditioned for Old Gold at one time with Kate Smith, the Howard brothers and Oman and Armand, the piano team. Hardin, Oman and Arden, I guess it was. And we were turned down.

[Jinx]

Why?

[Fred Allen]

Well, the sponsor didn't like it. I was in it. Kate Smith was in it, Willie and Jean Howard in it. And Ohman and Arden were in it. And the whole show, they didn't want any part of it. So everybody went out. Kate went out by herself and did well. And Willie, Poor Willie's gone now, but he worked until the end. And Oman and Arden function. And I've survived some way without the company. I worked for them last year, incidentally, and again they let me go.

[Jinx]

Wait a minute. Old Gold.

[Fred Allen]

Old Gold?

[Texas McCrary]

Yeah, it's a filter.

[Fred Allen]

They have a filter on the building. You can see it. It's down there.

[Texas McCrary]

Gordon is listening under the dryer.

[Fred Allen]

Oh, is she really?

[Texas McCrary]

I just called Robert.

[Fred Allen]

I hope that you talk. Is it Robert or Robert? I gave him the best of it. I called him Robert.

[Texas McCrary]

Well, I'm the operator, says Robert. Robin, you good.

[Fred Allen]

I hope this wave takes. This town is permanent. At least till she gets home. I think the other one broke. Came apart on 6th Avenue. So there, a block away from the place.

[Jinx]

Fred Allen, did you ever try to get a personal friend of yours to sponsor a program?

[Fred Allen]

No. I used to joke about a fellow up in Boston who had a little variety store up there, Hodge White. And we mentioned his name for the fun of it, to show him what sort of publicity he could get in the new medium. And it worked out very well. He didn't pay anything. We just used to mention him every week.

[Jinx]

And what kind of reaction did he get?

[Fred Allen]

Well, it made a lot of trouble for him. People came all from around the country and also New England to look at his store and to get his autograph and disturb him. At his work, and he saw the power of the medium and didn't want any part of it.

[Jinx]

And he would keep you tuned, of course, while you were on there.

[Texas McCrary]

Oh, yeah.

[Fred Allen]

So he. At that time, we had the show called Town Hall Tonight and he used to have our program on every night from 9 to 10. It was.

[Jinx]

Was it every night?

[Fred Allen]

No, every week, yes. And he had some problems in there because his meat slicer used to put static in his radio so you couldn't buy any meat there from 9 to 10.

[Jinx]

You made him famous, though, over New England?

[Fred Allen]

In a small way, yes. His fame got out of town into another county, I believe.

[Jinx]

Fred Allen, are there any types of products that you wouldn't accept to sponsors? And if so, why?

[Fred Allen]

No, I don't know. We were on for laxative and we were on for cigarettes. We've been on for a number of things. No, I don't. If it's within the law, I don't see why I should be concerned. People are in a legitimate business and they want to sponsor me or they can legally advertised. I don't see why I should be the one to say I don't want to be associated with it.

[Jinx]

Isn't it funny? I. I turned down. Do you remember this text being on the panel of what's my line? Whenever it went on, what was it, five years ago or so?

[Fred Allen]

I guess so. It's been on, I guess, four or

[Jinx]

five years because it was sponsored by a deodorant and I'd always. As a model, I'd always turned down posing in lingerie and posing for deodorant. And so when I was asked to be on the panel, they said, would you be interested? You know, we have a spot open we'd like you to be on. We're testing this show and it has this sponsor, and I said I couldn't. Now, five years later, it seems the most natural thing in the world, you know?

[Fred Allen]

Well, it's through general acceptance. I think you find that things change as you progress. Not always for the better, but they change. Life is constant adjustment to change. I mean, nothing stays as it is,

[Jinx]

and I'm sorry about that.

[Fred Allen]

It is unfortunate that you can't just pick a time in your life where things are going well and the children at a certain age, and you just stop there and just live eternally. But you can't do that.

[Jinx]

What time of your life, if you could do that, would you want to?

[Fred Allen]

Well, I've been so busy, I've never given it any thought, but it's A waste of time anyway. You can't accomplish it. So why waste your time thinking about something you can't do?

[Jinx]

Well, I would think you would have picked the time when Sunday nights you had the greatest radio program in the country.

[Fred Allen]

Also had the greatest aggravation and the greatest stress and the bigger taxes at that time too. So is there something on the other side? There's something to be said on the government side too.

[Jinx]

And did you worry all week about that Sunday night show?

[Fred Allen]

You had to worry because you had to keep your rating. And when ratings became exposed to the advertising people, why then you had to be conscious of that. And also the sales of the product and the quality of your show and the competition and the opposition and things. There were many things to be concerned about.

[Texas McCrary]

Did you ever talk to anybody who got called on the telephone by.

[Fred Allen]

I have people who talk to local stations, you know, who are having a survey in a city like New York. And when we worked for Benton and Bowles years ago, they used to take their own surveys for product reactions, you know, and then I've heard talk to people that have heard from them, but never from the national ones, the big ones.

[Jinx]

Fred Allen. We must take a station break for just a moment and then we'll be back for another half hour with Fred Allen. Let's pause now briefly for station identification.

[Fred Allen]

You're listening to Same Time, Same Station, the best of Old Time Radio, and I'm your host, Jerry Hendigas.

[Texas McCrary]

Now let's get back to Tex and Jinx in Peacock Alley of the Waldorf.

[Jinx]

Oh, what nice calls we've had since we've been on the air. Mrs. Siegler says she rearranged her whole day just to hear this program. So please, underlined, quit worrying about the soap operas as competition. And Roberta Marks of Kansas City was on Fred Allen's program program exactly one year ago today and won a thousand dollars. Say hello to Mr. Allen and tell

[Fred Allen]

her there's no money available today. I hope she saved it for a rainy day because this is a rainy day here. And if she's here with a thousand dollars, she's in very good condition.

[Jinx]

Reva Sullivan called up to say to ask what is Fred Allen's definition of wit and what man best lives up to it?

[Fred Allen]

Oh, that's a matter of opinion. No one can make a choice. You can only say what you like best.

[Jinx]

That's what she wants to know.

[Fred Allen]

Well, I don't know. It depends. In different fields, there are certain fine men who are doing motion pictures. There's James Thurber, who's writing in magazines, or Jack Benny. I always enjoyed Groucho. Herb Shriner. There are many people today. It's very difficult to. Currently, I think the standards may be a little different than they were years ago.

[Jinx]

There's no one man then that you. You think?

[Fred Allen]

I would say I think the wittiest. No, I would think from a writing standpoint that James Thurber probably writes is the best satire, the best type of humor that we have available at the present time. There are many other fellows who do it very well too. Frank Sullivan, that's in the magazine field. Bugs Bear has a type of humor that's very funny. It's all a matter of opinion. I don't think anyone can say. Because what you like and someone you can get an argument in any facet of that discussion. I think.

[Jinx]

What do you think is more important, the man who writes the witty material or the man who delivers it?

[Fred Allen]

The man who. Well, they're both very important because the man who writes it can't deliver it. And the man who delivers it has nothing to deliver unless the man writes it. They help each other. One complements the other.

[Jinx]

Edith Band called up to ask us to tell Fred Allen that we'll never forget him and that he has a greater listening audience than he'll ever realize.

[Fred Allen]

Oh, really?

[Jinx]

Yeah.

[Fred Allen]

What are they listening to now? I'm not on anything. Maybe get an answer to that.

[Texas McCrary]

Mrs. Vickerson says a lot of people love you on television and especially enjoy the St. Patrick's Day Show. What is that, Fred?

[Fred Allen]

I really don't know. We didn't have. Oh, we had a. I really don't know one St. Patrick's Day one year. We had a burlesque of Finnegan's Rainbow that was quite funny and musical. The one thing that we did every year was the Christmas Santa Claus. You know, always retired from the scene because of the world making so much trouble. But I don't remember any one specific St. Patrick's Day. You know, there's a program that we did.

[Texas McCrary]

There's a show that we've done every year for a long time. And now the network took it up last year the show called man of the Year, where we tried to time.

[Fred Allen]

I was on that last year.

[Texas McCrary]

That's right.

[Fred Allen]

Dean Engelbach did it.

[Texas McCrary]

I wonder. We're looking for a candidate for the man of the Year this year. Who would your candidate be?

[Fred Allen]

Quite seriously, Fred, I really don't know.

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[Fred Allen]

Well, the holidays have come and gone

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[Fred Allen]

Well, Mint Mobile is extending their holiday offer of half off unlimited wireless. So here's the idea. You get it now, you call it an early present for next year. What do you have to lose? Give it a [e-mail] Switch limited time,

[Jinx]

50% off regular price for new customers. Upfront payment required $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for 12 month plan taxes and fees. Extra speeds may slow after 50 gigabytes per month when network is busy. See terms.

[Fred Allen]

No I world is too much. I'm trouble in my own little cycle here. I don't take the world in or comment on the world. I've had enough trouble doing. I'm going to speak at the Book and Author lunch. And that's my present trouble getting a speech together for next Tuesday.

[Texas McCrary]

That's next Tuesday. The Book and Arthur luncheon brother. Sponsored by the Herald Tribune.

[Fred Allen]

Yes, at the Asta. They have it every few months, I guess. I don't know when they have it, but Vice President Barkley has written the book and Frank o', Connor, the Irish story writer and I guess the three of us are supposed to talk there.

[Texas McCrary]

You have really got trouble being on the same program with Barclay.

[Fred Allen]

Why?

[Jinx]

Gets a lot of laughs.

[Fred Allen]

Well, I was on. I spoke at the Bob Hope dinner with him with the veep, I think. I guess that's the one. Or Jack Benning, the prior singer.

[Jinx]

I remember that, yes.

[Fred Allen]

If I'm telling the same jokes, I won't have any trouble. I'll tell them ahead of him.

[Jinx]

In your book, Treadmill to Oblivion, you say that radio is dying, that the giveaway programs forced people to give away their radios. In fact, you call giveaway quiz programs the buzzards of radio.

[Fred Allen]

That's true.

[Jinx]

How did you try to handle the situation when Stop the Music came on at the same time as your Sunday night show and took over?

[Fred Allen]

Well, we were an old show. I mean Stop the Music and take all the credit. The problem came when. When Jack Benny and Amos and Andy and Edgar Bergen all went over to the other network and our show was left alone. We stayed with NBC and we were sort of vulnerable because most of the audience up until 8:30 went over to the other network or 8 o', clock, I guess it was. And we were a show that was 18 years old and consequently a new show which appealed to greed and, you know, supposedly the money was available for people. Actually it wasn't. That's explained in the book too. But the coming of the quiz show showed that the interest in the advertising part of the business, the advertising money supports the programs and they were interested in the cheaper shows that would get the larger audiences for their advertising purposes. They had no interest in the development of talent or in the quality of the shows. And consequently when the quiz shows were cheap then they became very popular not because the public wanted them or because. Because they were exceptionally good. It was principally because they were cheaper. And I could see that nobody's going to. That's also explained in the book too, that nobody profited except the man who owned the quiz show. The network didn't profit it because they were advertising 20 products who were giving their products to the people who owned the quiz show to advertise for nothing. As far as the sponsor was concerned. They had no musicians on, they had nobody on there.

[Jinx]

Did you start giving away things on Alan?

[Fred Allen]

Oh, yes. We insured our audience. We tried to get Lloyds of London to take our show and insure us. If you were listening to us and Stop the Music, called you up and you lost anything, we would pay you up to $5,000. But we had a British gentleman over here. We couldn't convince him what this deal was and we gave up with Lloyd's and we finally went to, I think the National Surety Corporation. We put a bond up with them and they took the case, they took the insurance over for us.

[Jinx]

Fred Allen, your troubles with radio executives

[Fred Allen]

explain in the book. And two or three people who tried to bilk us directly didn't work out,

[Jinx]

though you didn't have to pay.

[Fred Allen]

We didn't because legally they had no premise on which to base their claims. And then they couldn't. We found out later that it was impossible to beat us because if in the first place Stop the music used to call all of the people in the afternoon and planned all their calls, you know, to be available for night. It's the only way you could do it because you couldn't call people ad lib from the phone book. You'd be Calling all night with people out of the house. But they had. I forget what I was going to say.

[Jinx]

Now I have another question for you. I have just a couple more minutes before I have to leave for television. I want to go in and then text takes over, huh?

[Fred Allen]

Yes. If your class polls. I hope it holds better on television. I have an enormous audience today. You might have a terrific audience on television.

[Jinx]

Class was my dress which popped at the beginning of the program. I think I'll put another one on for two.

[Fred Allen]

Television. I would.

[Jinx]

Another dress.

[Fred Allen]

I mean, a coverall.

[Jinx]

Your troubles with radio executives came to a head one day, one night, when your. When your Sunday night show was cut off.

[Fred Allen]

The many executives didn't come to a head. And that was our problem there. That was our great problem in those days. That's true.

[Jinx]

What exactly happened? Can you tell us? We heard always about the vice president.

[Fred Allen]

Well, that's explained in the book here too. The on page here, some page here. It. There's a script that explains the whole thing. It says, radio sure is funny. All except the comedy programs. Our program has been cut off so many times. The last page of the script is a band aid. And then Portland says, what does NBC do with all of the time it saves cutting off the ends of your programs? And then I say, well, there is a big executive here at NBC. He's the vice president in charge of you're running too long. And he sits in a little glass closet with his mother of pearl gong. And when your program runs over time, he thumps his gong with a marshmallow he has tied to the end of a xylophone stick and bong, you are off the air. Then he marks down how much time he has saved. And then Portland says, well, what does he do with all this time? And then I say, he adds it all up. 10 seconds here, 20 seconds there. And when he saved up enough seconds, minutes and hours to make two weeks, NBC lets the vice president use the two weeks of our time for his vacation. And Portland says, he's living on borrowed time. And I say, and he's enjoying every minute of it. And that's why the man cut us off. He claimed that we were insulting the executives. And I claimed that it was impossible at that time with the executives who are rampant the network. It's impossible to insult them even with friends. You couldn't do it.

[Texas McCrary]

Didn't you picket NBC once?

[Fred Allen]

Picket them? Yeah. No, we picketed. We sent midgets there because we claimed that they were unfair to the little man and we had about 20 midgets. Luckily, I think the circus was here. Olson and Johnson were in town. Somebody was a specialist in midgets. And we borrowed about 20 midgets to walk around NBC. Make a little trouble there.

[Jinx]

But now what was the real problem? They would cut you off a little early at night or you would run long.

[Fred Allen]

Well, the problem was that it was impossible to judge the running time of a comedy show because if your audience was exceptionally good, you might allow. We used to allow over 5 minutes and 30 minutes just for laughter. And some nights, if things were hilarious or there were mistakes made or ad libbing or things like that, we'd be long and then we'd be nipped off without any warning at all, you know, because you had to get the final.

[Jinx]

But didn't you think that was right to be nipped off? There was another program with probably another sponsor following, wasn't there?

[Fred Allen]

I, I don't know, I.

[Jinx]

Of course I agree with you completely.

[Fred Allen]

I mean, I would have to, because I'm a guest. The guest is always wrong on your program. I know that.

[Jinx]

Right.

[Fred Allen]

No, it's always right.

[Jinx]

No, I just cut off. I get furious.

[Fred Allen]

At what point? Well, especially on a comedy show, because sometimes you spend all of the time, your premises established and you're app. And you come to the end and the end is gone. We were the first one, as far as I ever know, to put the end of the show on the next week and start with the beginning of it.

[Jinx]

Oh, dear.

[Fred Allen]

But it just seemed that there was no flexible approach to the problems of the medium. You see, it was more important to get off on time than it was to be good. That's what I mean. It was more important.

[Jinx]

And that's why you left radio?

[Fred Allen]

No, I left radio partly. Radio left me. And then I. I got the idea and I left Ready. Now, I was ill at the time and I had to quit for a while. By the time I got better, radio had sort of gone over the hill.

[Jinx]

I hope it hasn't now, because I love radio. Well, radio, what's that about this microphone instead of three cameras with.

[Fred Allen]

That's true. Because I think you get the more better attention from the audience because the audience has to join you and use a little imagination. Where in television you have no imagination at all, including the people who are pushing the cameras around, because they have very little respect for the actor too. I mean, if you're going to. You can create an atmosphere or establish a locale, add a microphone, but you can't do that in television unless Somebody paints a scene or unless the camera is at a certain angle. And it seems to me that television is a triumph of machine over people.

[Jinx]

Yesterday during the show while we we were on camera, number three was being repaired for about 15 minutes of the half hour. You know, it's slightly distracting because they

[Fred Allen]

wouldn't take it away. They just make leave it in front of you so you'll make sure that it's being repaired. I mean they wouldn't just take it around the corner so it wouldn't distract you. That's what I mean. These men are so intent. They're like the executives used to be. They're so intent on their machines and their wires and their pulleys and their red lights going on that they forget that you have to create an atmosphere if it's going to come over as a show.

[Jinx]

It's very difficult to have.

[Fred Allen]

I don't think any medium is good. If it takes 30 people for you to say one line and you'll see it when you get up there at 2 o' clock, there'll be 30 people looking at you and you're going to read some diaper service stuff that you.

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[Jinx]

Are you really buying a car online

[Fred Allen]

on Autotrader right now?

[Texas McCrary]

Really?

[Fred Allen]

At a playground?

[Jinx]

Yeah, really. Look at these listings from dealers.

[SpinQuest Announcer]

Wow, your search can really get that specific.

[Fred Allen]

Really?

[Jinx]

And you just put in your info and boom.

[Fred Allen]

Car's in your budget.

[Texas McCrary]

Mom needs a second.

[Fred Allen]

Honey, you can really have it delivered. Really? Or I can pick it up at the dealership. One sec, sweetie.

[Jinx]

Mommy's buying a car.

[SpinQuest Announcer]

Mommy, look.

[Jinx]

I think your kid is walking up the slide.

[Fred Allen]

Kyle.

[SpinQuest Announcer]

Again?

[Jinx]

Really? Autotrader, Buy your car online. Really? So now it's situ time and we'll be right back. Citru. You know the manufacturers of Citru tissues are making it possible to get a complete basic five piece play setting in National Silver Company's lovely modern modern pattern backed by their 15 year replacement guarantee.

[Texas McCrary]

Up till now this offer wasn't possible.

[Jinx]

Not at this price. Now you can Get a dinner knife and fork, soup spoon, salad fork and teaspoon for just $1. A fraction of their regular retail value.

[Texas McCrary]

What's the pattern like, James?

[Jinx]

Oh, it's really beautiful text with a simplicity of line that goes well with modern China but still won't clash with the more traditional patterns.

[Texas McCrary]

All you do is to go to your retail store, get a box of

[Fred Allen]

citru tissues, the rose pastel box of

[Jinx]

soft, strong, cellular woven citru tissues.

[Texas McCrary]

Then tear off the perforated panel on top of the box.

[Jinx]

Right.

[Texas McCrary]

Put your name and address on the back and mail it along with $1 for each five piece play setting to sit through. Box 260 New York. 16, New York.

[Jinx]

You are absolutely right, Tex. And just be sure that everyone has the address. We'll repeat it in just a moment. Better get a pencil and write it down so that you won't forget it. Remember, for each lovely five piece place setting of five silver plate, all it takes is a single dollar bill plus

[Texas McCrary]

the perforated panel from one box of citru tissue. Just mail the panel and the dollar for each set along with your name and address to SITRU. That's S I t r u e. Box 260260, New York. 16, New York.

[Jinx]

Before I leave for television, Fred Allen, I wonder if you and I can do one part of a script from your book which explains some of the. What do you call it that.

[Texas McCrary]

The feud between you and Jennifer, between

[Jinx]

you and Jack Benny.

[Fred Allen]

Sure. You mean you want to read Portland's pirate?

[Jinx]

Well, I don't.

[Texas McCrary]

Portland's listening.

[Fred Allen]

There's some.

[Jinx]

Is she really listening?

[Fred Allen]

Well, she's retired. She retired again. We were on omnibus a week or so, so three or four weeks ago. And she also retired from omnibus too.

[Jinx]

Well, listen, give me an idea of how. How I should sound.

[Fred Allen]

Well, it's just sort of. I'm not going to. If she's listening, I'm not going to tell you how she talks. If you wouldn't hear her on the. If your memory is gone and you can't remember how Portland sounded, then you have to do it yourself. Well, you might invent a new approach to the character that she might profit from.

[Jinx]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and I will do my best.

[Fred Allen]

There's a lot of it going on in television and radio too. Well, now, a lot of sincerity going on in that.

[Jinx]

Can you set the scene, Fred, for this particular.

[Fred Allen]

Well, this is just part of a routine that I was preparing to have a fight with Jack Benny. And he had challenged me and I had challenged him. And then we were fighting back and forth on the programs. And we have different routines. And this is a routine here that's also in the book where Portland and I were discussing something that we had had in our programs. Her first line here on page 60 explains it.

[Jinx]

Jack said on his program he saved your life in vaudeville.

[Fred Allen]

You should be getting the wave in. Portland should be here. How does that go again?

[Jinx]

Portland, on his program he saved your life in vaudeville.

[Fred Allen]

Nobody saved my life in Portland. In vaudeville, Portland, I died everywhere. The first time I met Benny was in Illyrio, Ohio. He was doing a monologue with a pig on the stage.

[Jinx]

A pig?

[Fred Allen]

Yes, the pig was there to eat up the stuff the audience threw at Benny. It was in his contract that he had to leave the stage. The way he found it, some weeks he had to use two pigs.

[Jinx]

What kind of an act was Jack doing then, Mr. Allen?

[Fred Allen]

Well, I tell you, it was one of those acts. It wasn't safe to take a deep breath while Jack was on. He used to open the act, throwing his violin on the stage. And then if nothing happened, Benny came on.

[Jinx]

And Jack didn't save your life?

[Fred Allen]

I saved his life, actually. I'll never forget it, Portland. Benny was out on the stage in his spangled tights playing the violin. His big number was Pony Boy. He just started to play Pony Boy when a man in the front row started to shoot.

[Jinx]

A westerner?

[Fred Allen]

No, a music lover. Well, I ran out on the stage in front of Jack. I thought the star running on might save his life. Well, in the excitement, Benny stole two bows and I was shot in the chest. They took me to the hospital.

[Jinx]

Is that when Jack gave you the transfusion?

[Fred Allen]

Yes, Portland. They told me in the hospital later. It was the first time at a transfusion the donor ever asked for a receipt for his blood.

[Jinx]

Did the transfusion help you?

[Fred Allen]

I had a relapse. Then as a result of the Benny transfusion, I had anemia for two years. And it affected me in other ways. I couldn't get my hand in my pocket for many months. I found myself window shopping at toupee stores. Oh, it was terrible.

[Texas McCrary]

Portland.

[Jinx]

That's the part from the book.

[Fred Allen]

Treadmill. That's right. Well, that's just one of the little routines.

[Jinx]

And you mean that that was really a made up feud? You didn't really dislike Jack? Oh, no.

[Fred Allen]

Jack is a wonderful fellow. I don't think Jack is an enemy in the world. And I certainly wouldn't start a trend.

[Jinx]

I Must go to television because I have a very.

[Fred Allen]

That's what's wrong with radio. You have to go to television.

[Texas McCrary]

But look.

[Jinx]

See that beautiful girl?

[Fred Allen]

I think I'll follow you. Oh, wait a minute. Portland's listening, isn't she? I'll be here with Ted Tags.

[Jinx]

She's an American girl from Pearl River, New York. Who's name was Aline Griffith. She went to Spain with the OSS 10 years ago. Office of Strategic Services, 10 years ago. And she married a Spanish count, Luis Quintanilla. Who is sitting right out there. And I don't know if he knows she's here and she knows he's there. But we're headed for television.

[Texas McCrary]

That's good.

[Fred Allen]

Radio's old. Why don't you take the microphones with you? The whole industry's headed for television. Take the studio with you.

[Texas McCrary]

No, I hate to believe, but you're so wrong. We've got a lot of people have called up.

[Fred Allen]

And I know Clifton Fadiman claims that I was on Conversation a few weeks ago. And. And Kip says that he has great faith in radio. And that's.

[Texas McCrary]

I think television's bringing radio back.

[Fred Allen]

Eventually. It will. I'm sure. Bye. Goodbye.

[Texas McCrary]

Goodbye, Pooh.

[Fred Allen]

Okay, studio audiences. Shall I explain? The studio audience is walking out. It shows you that Jinx is the drawer. The undertow of Jinx is causing the studio audience to leave the studio here. Incidentally, on one of these cards I saw, it says Texan Jink. Is jinx plural.

[Texas McCrary]

It comes in spelled all sorts of ways. You know, on this business of husbands and wives working together. You almost put all husbands and wives out of business. With your takeoff on our racket with Tallulah.

[Fred Allen]

Oh, well, we were satirizing all of the current things. And at that time that we did that show. The husband and wife teams were very popular in radio and consequences. Like making fun of Liberace. Today he's a big star and a big name in television. And consequently, people are acquainted with what he does. And it's easy to satirize him or burlesque him.

[Texas McCrary]

But, you know, I wondered at the time why people didn't realize that, for instance, you worked with your wife on the air, but you never admit it. I mean, she's Portland, and you're secretary or aunt. And Jack Benny worked with Mary Livingston.

[Fred Allen]

That's right. Well, it depended on the voice. You had to create a character that went with the voice because. Because people in radio didn't see the people with whom you were working. And Portland's voice Came out on the air through the mechanization, the voice of a small girl. And consequently, we had to sort of invent a character to go along with it. And Jack and Mary were never identified as man and wife. She was always a friend of his, and she could do more. More sophisticated comedy because her voice is more of a smarter girl or an older girl, you might say.

[Texas McCrary]

Now, when we first went on the air during the husband and wife bit, it's hard you say husband and wife, because usually men run stations, and that way you get the top billing.

[Fred Allen]

And coming in that early in the morning, too. It looks funny if it's not husband and wife.

[Texas McCrary]

Yes, and also Jim Gaines was a friend of mine, more than of Jinx's, and he was the boss, but it always turned up in the paper. Jinx and Tex.

[Fred Allen]

You see, that's like park and Tilford now. You never hear. Tilford's never mentioned first. I think when the name is established, people just automatically say it. And actually, the fellow who named me William and Mary was sort of impolite, too, because it should have been Mary and William. That college down there.

[Texas McCrary]

Brad, we got a call from a Mrs. Abby Sheehan.

[Fred Allen]

Wants to buy a book, I hope.

[Texas McCrary]

Yes. She says she is the leader in the Silk Stocking District and accuses you of being one of her voters. You know Mrs. Sheehan, she's a political leader, apparently.

[Fred Allen]

No, we. We live on 58th street in that section.

[Texas McCrary]

Well, she says she's your leader, but

[Fred Allen]

I don't think that's. I think that is. That's the. We're in the district. That's to run in the Silk Stocking District. I don't think that we're in the Silk Stocking District. Isn't that over in Park Avenue?

[Texas McCrary]

That's right.

[Fred Allen]

Oh, this. This is an executive throw from there.

[Texas McCrary]

Oh, okay. But she says she's sick in bed and Mr. Allen is making her feel so much better.

[Fred Allen]

Well, you. You mentioned that the book would. Would probably get her out of. Because she'll have to throw to the window to throw the book out. This might be a great help to me.

[Texas McCrary]

That is she. And we're sending your book. Thank you very much for calling up. We're going to take a break here for a commercial, and then I want you to get us off the air on time the way executives used to. We don't have a marshmallow on the end of a violin bow, but. John, will you give him a stopwatch and let him get braced?

[Fred Allen]

I. I wouldn't know, because we always. I. I could never function the radio unless there was a man pointing a finger at me.

[Texas McCrary]

I want you to get set to point a finger at me, stopwatch in hand. Give him the stopwatch.

[Fred Allen]

All right. Get my glasses on. Because I have so much aspic in my blood I have to keep my eyes on the glass.

[Texas McCrary]

All right. Now you get set while I try to do a commercial again. You push the button.

[Fred Allen]

How many, how many minutes?

[Texas McCrary]

John will tell you. No, I'm off.

[Fred Allen]

Well, he's still pointing the finger at me. It's still radio as far as I'm concerned. He's just giving me his finger from so I can point my finger at you. This is a two fingered show.

[Texas McCrary]

He's giving me a finger. Now let me try this. You know, women have always wanted to have fine silverware. But a lot of ladies feel they just can't afford it. Makers of Citru tissue have an answer for that problem. A wonderful answer. Right now the Citru people are making it possible for everybody to own truly wonderful silver plate at just a fraction of its regular retail cost. And a fraction is right. You get a complete basic five piece place setting including dinner knife and fork, soup spoon, salad fork and teaspoon for only a dollar. Fred's holding up one finger.

[Fred Allen]

That's right.

[Texas McCrary]

And the pattern is really handsome. National Silver Company's famous modern design back by the 15 year replacement guarantee. A classically simple pattern that goes well with any china. And here's how the Citru people have made it easy for you to get a basic five piece play setting for a single dollar. On the top of the box of Sitrue you'll find a perforated panel. Just tear it off, write your name and address on the back and mail it along with $1 for each five piece play setting to Citru. Box 260 New York 16, New York. You're giving me a quarter.

[Fred Allen]

15 seconds. 15 seconds.

[Texas McCrary]

Remember to get each complete basic five piece play setting, just take the perforated panel from the top of the back and mail it along with a single dollar for each five piece play setting to sit through. S I C R U E. Box 2. 260 New York 16, New York 1.

[Fred Allen]

You're off. There's the finger. You're off, Tex.

[Texas McCrary]

Thank you. Fred Allen. Remember the name of the book. Treadmill to Oblivion. Goodbye from the Waldorf for Mel Allen in the Army Navy game Saturday afternoon at 1:15.

[Fred Allen]

Well, that'll just about wrap things up for today. Certainly hope you enjoyed the programs. If you'd like to contact us for for more information on how to purchase the programs, give us a request for upcoming programs or just any kind of comments you'd like whatsoever. You may do so by going to our [e-mail] or you may email us at jerrytrsite.com or you may call area code 356-2696-4387. We'd certainly love to hear from you and this is Jerry Hendigas saying thanks a lot for listening. Take care of yourselves and we'll see you right here next week, same time, same station. Bye now.

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