HISTORY This Week: “A Good, Not Great Lake” (from Points North)

Release Date: April 9, 2026
Podcast: HISTORY This Week (originally Points North)
Principal Host: Dan Wanshura
Guest/Key Voices: Senator Patrick Leahy, Fred Upton, Suzanne Fleek Green, Ellen Marsden, Tom Berry, Chris Gilchrist

EPISODE OVERVIEW

This episode takes a witty, entertaining, and deeply investigative look at a little-known, nearly farcical episode in American history: the 1998 moment when, buried in a routine bill, Congress suddenly named Lake Champlain the "sixth Great Lake." What began as an attempt to secure environmental funding exploded into a national controversy, provoking outrage and jokes from the Midwest, soul-searching in Vermont, and eventually, a classic legislative compromise. Through interviews, archival tape, and first-person recollections, the episode explores questions of political maneuvering, regional identity, the meaning of “greatness,” and how decisions that reshape the nation sometimes hinge on the smallest details.

KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & INSIGHTS

1. The Strange Congressional Creation of a Sixth Great Lake (01:05–04:11)

• Inciting Incident: Tom Berry recalls his mother calling from Michigan in 1998, bewildered that Lake Champlain was suddenly a “Great Lake.”
  • Quote: “There’s only five Great Lakes, and Lake Champlain’s not one of them.” – Tom Berry (02:12)
• Widespread Outrage: The Midwest—media, schoolchildren, and politicians—reacted with shock and derision at the idea.
  • Quote: “We have islands in the Great Lakes larger than Lake Champlain.” – Davis Helberg (03:31)
  • Quote: “It’s just crazy.” – Rep. Fred Upton (04:03)
• Mockery Begins: Nicknames and jokes appear in news coverage.
  • Quote: “‘If Lake Champlain ends up as a Great Lake, I propose we rename it Lake Plain Sham.’” – Reporting on Rep. Steve LaTourette (04:11)

2. Why Make Lake Champlain a Great Lake? Vermont’s Playbook (07:19–11:09)

• Senator Leahy’s Motivation: With Lake Champlain suffering from agricultural runoff and invasive species, Sen. Patrick Leahy sought more resources for its environmental protection.
  • Quote: "I wanted to make sure we were protected. The lake... faces all these environmental pressures." – Sen. Patrick Leahy (07:47)
• The Funding Angle – Sea Grant Program:
  • Insight: The Sea Grant Program funded research for oceans and the existing Great Lakes, but left Champlain (and Vermont researchers) out. Leahy and staff wanted to include Champlain and the University of Vermont for better access to grants.
    • Quote: "The University of Vermont said, hey, it would be great if we, too, could be part of the Sea Grant program." – Suzanne Fleek Green (09:41)
  • The Tactic: Add a single line to the pending Sea Grant reauthorization: "The term Great Lakes includes Lake Champlain."
    • Quote: "Just an extra line of language here or there...could have a dramatic impact on Vermont." — Tom Berry (11:09)

3. Midwestern Backlash: History, Identity, and (Most Of All) Money (11:27–16:54)

• A Sneaky Surprise: The bill, seen as uncontroversial, passed without notice. The political fallout erupted only after news coverage and public outcry began.
  • Quote (Leahy): “These are people who basically were embarrassed that they had to tell their constituents, I voted for a bill I never read or didn’t understand. And I was. I was not going to push back on him.” (14:35)
• Concerns Over Funding:
  • Quote: "When you go from five Great Lakes to six, guess what? The funding gets cut." – Rep. Fred Upton (15:11)
  • Quote: "It would have been a foot in the door to eventually block us out by adding a sixth...who knows...a seventh Great Lake?" – Rep. Fred Upton (15:33)
• Defense of Regional Identity:
  • Quote: "It illustrated a lot of things about how people viewed the Great Lakes and kind of a lack of respect for the history of the Great Lakes..." – Chris Gilchrist (16:32)

4. Negotiation & Compromise: How to Un-Make a Great Lake (16:54–22:13)

• The Battle in Congress: Rep. Upton and other Great Lakes legislators mobilized across state lines, using both backdoor negotiation and public pressure to force a change.
  • Quote: “I felt a little bit like David and Goliath. Leahy was very distinct...a lot of respect and no skeletons...He was able to get a lot of things done for the state of Vermont.” – Upton (17:15)
• Leahy’s Diplomatic Move: Under mounting pressure, Leahy offered a new amendment, recasting Lake Champlain not as a “Great Lake,” but as a “cousin” to the five originals.
  • Quote (Senate floor, 20:39): “We have agreed to call Lake Champlain a cousin instead of a little brother to those larger lakes in the Midwest.” – Sen. Patrick Leahy (21:09)
• Outcome – Everybody Wins:
  • Lake Champlain was no longer officially a Great Lake. However, Vermont still gained access to Sea Grant funds for research.
  • Quote: “The Great Lakes still prevailed at five...and Lake Champlain was eligible for sea grant money...a win win for both regions.” – Rep. Fred Upton (21:52)

5. Lasting Impact & An Enduring Relationship (22:13–24:32)

• Senator Leahy’s View in Retrospect:
  • Quote: "Once the press made it front page news, I had some fun with all the attention. I realized there were a number of interviews where I was trying unsuccessfully to keep a straight face like right now." – Sen. Patrick Leahy (23:24)
  • Quote: “Nobody in Vermont, myself included, wanted to rename Lake Champlain as a Great Lake...provided we got the research money.” (23:02)
• Personal Good Humor and Ongoing Partnership:
  • Quote (to Upton): “Do you remember when I said yes, I do. He said, well, we ended up getting the money. I said, well that wasn’t a problem as long as it didn’t take away from the Great Lakes. So we laughed about it for years afterward and Lake Champlain is a good place.” – Upton (23:43)
• Shared Goals for the Future:
  • The temporary conflict helped strengthen relations across the regions. Leahy worked to ensure funding grew for both the Great Lakes and Lake Champlain in subsequent years.
  • Quote: "I wanted to make sure the ecological research and all the five Great Lakes continued because I think they are a national treasure." – Sen. Patrick Leahy (24:15)

MEMORABLE MOMENTS & QUOTES (with Timestamps)

• "We have islands in the Great Lakes larger than Lake Champlain."
  – Davis Helberg (03:31)
• On the idea of Greatness:
  "We wanted to find some statistic that would allow us to sort of hold our own, so to speak...We are actually deeper at the deepest point than Lake Erie. But that's not saying a lot. Lake Erie is very shallow."
  – Ellen Marsden (13:26)
• On Political Maneuvering:
  "Just an extra line of language here or there...could have a dramatic impact on Vermont."
  – Tom Berry (11:09)
• On Compromise:
  "The bottom line...the Great Lakes still prevailed at five and getting the funding, and Lake Champlain was eligible for sea grant money...a win-win."
  – Fred Upton (21:52)
• In Retrospect:
  "Nobody in Vermont, myself included, wanted to rename Lake Champlain as a Great Lake...provided we got the research money."
  – Sen. Patrick Leahy (23:02)
• Good-natured teasing:
  “We laughed about it for years afterward and Lake Champlain is a good place.”
  – Fred Upton (23:43)

TIME-STAMPED SEGMENT GUIDE

• 01:05–04:11 — Sudden Congressional declaration and Midwest outcry
• 07:19–11:09 — Senator Leahy’s rationale; the quest for Sea Grant funding
• 11:27–16:54 — Backlash over identity and funding, history of the Great Lakes
• 16:54–22:13 — Legislative negotiation, the compromise, and its aftermath
• 22:13–24:32 — Legacy, humor, and genuine interregional partnership

CONCLUSION

What started as bureaucratic sleight of hand turned into a brilliant civics lesson, revealing both the absurdity and the seriousness of American lawmaking. The “Great Lake” status of Champlain was short-lived, yet the episode secured vital research funding for Vermont, kept the Great Lakes coalition intact, and forged lasting political friendships. Above all, the story reminds us that “greatness” can be both a matter of geography—and artful legislation.