"Have You No Decency, Sir?"

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Have You No Decency, Sir?"

Podcast Information:

• Title: HISTORY This Week
• Host/Author: The HISTORY® Channel | Back Pocket Studios
• Episode: "Have You No Decency, Sir?"
• Release Date: June 12, 2025

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Introduction: The Climactic Moment of the Army-McCarthy Hearings

In the pivotal episode titled "Have You No Decency, Sir?", HISTORY This Week delves into the dramatic climax of the Army-McCarthy hearings of 1954. Hosted by Sally Helm, the episode meticulously reconstructs the events leading up to and culminating in Joseph Welch's famous rebuke of Senator Joseph McCarthy, a moment that significantly altered the trajectory of McCarthyism and American politics.

Setting the Stage: McCarthy's Rise Amidst Cold War Fears

The episode opens on June 9, 1954, a date when approximately 20 million Americans tuned in to watch a Senate hearing unfold on television. At the center of this spectacle was Senator Joseph McCarthy, renowned as America's foremost "communist hunter." As Sally Helm narrates, McCarthy's tactic was to accuse individuals of communist ties with unwavering calmness, often to the increasing frustration of his accusers and opponents.

Quote Highlight:

Sally Helm [00:02]: "20 million Americans are watching a Senate hearing on TV. It's a battle between the United States army and a man named Joseph McCarthy."

The Mechanics of McCarthyism: Power and Fear

McCarthy's influence burgeoned during a period marked by intense fear of communism in the United States. Ellen Schrecker, a leading historian on McCarthyism, provides critical insights into how McCarthy capitalized on the existing anti-communist sentiments post-World War II. The episode explores the Loyalty Order enacted by President Harry Truman in 1947, which authorized the investigation of federal employees for loyalty, setting the stage for widespread paranoia and blacklisting.

Quote Highlight:

Ellen Schrecker [07:07]: "You could talk about it as the home front of the Cold War."

McCarthy's Ascendancy: Political Opportunism and Public Fear

As the Cold War tensions escalated, McCarthy seized the opportunity to amplify his anti-communist crusade. In February 1950, he made a bold claim before the Ohio County Women's Republican Club in Wheeling, West Virginia, alleging that he possessed names of over 200 government officials affiliated with the Communist Party. This assertion catapulted him into the national spotlight, intertwining his political ambitions with the prevalent fears of the era.

Quote Highlight:

Ellen Schrecker [10:10]: "And that propelled him into the headlines right away."

The 1952 Presidential Election: McCarthy's Influence and Eisenhower's Resilience

The episode details McCarthy's strategic role in the 1952 presidential election, where he supported Republican candidate Dwight D. Eisenhower by portraying the Democratic Party as lenient on communism. Despite McCarthy's backing, Eisenhower personally detested McCarthy's methods, particularly McCarthy's attacks on General George Marshall, Eisenhower’s mentor and the Secretary of State.

Quote Highlight:

Ellen Schrecker [12:00]: "Roy Cohn, who had been accepted to West Point, failed his physical in 1954America."

McCarthy's Overreach and the Introduction of Roy Cohn

In 1954, McCarthy appointed Roy Cohn, a young lawyer known for his aggressive tactics, as the chairman of the Senate Committee on Government Operations. Cohn played a pivotal role in intensifying McCarthy's investigations, including the controversial attempts to shield his associate G. David Shine from military service—an action that would later contribute to McCarthy's downfall.

Quote Highlight:

Ellen Schrecker [16:22]: "Cohn is very gay and, of course, concealing it."

The Army-McCarthy Hearings: A Turning Point

The heart of the episode focuses on the Army-McCarthy hearings, where McCarthy's relentless pursuit of alleged communists within the U.S. Army reached its zenith. The hearings were marked by McCarthy's aggressive tactics and Cohn's overzealous accusations, which ultimately backfired.

Quote Highlight:

Sally Helm [18:54]: "And his studio, McCarthy ripping into the reputations of both friend and foe alike in his attack on the army and its chiefs."

The Iconic Confrontation: "Have You No Decency, Sir?"

The climax of the hearings arrived when Joseph Welch, the Army's chief counsel, confronted McCarthy in a televised hearing. After enduring relentless accusations from McCarthy, Welch delivered a scathing rebuke that would become one of the most memorable moments in American political history.

Quote Highlights:

Joseph Welch [01:54]: "No sense of decency, sir. At long last, have you left no sense of decency?" [01:54]

Ellen Schrecker [25:00]: "No sense of decency, sir. At long last, have you left."

This moment, captured live on television, starkly contrasted McCarthy's demeanor with Welch's composed yet forceful repudiation of McCarthy's methods. The exchange signaled the beginning of the end for McCarthy's influence, as public opinion swiftly turned against him.

The Aftermath: McCarthy's Decline and the End of an Era

Following the dramatic confrontation, McCarthy's reputation plummeted. The public, exposed to his tactics through television, grew increasingly disillusioned. By the fall of 1954, McCarthy was censured by the Senate for his conduct, marking a significant decline in his political power. Despite attempts to defend his reputation, McCarthy's career unraveled, leading to his death in 1957 due to complications from alcoholism.

Quote Highlight:

Ellen Schrecker [27:05]: "That character of his was useful until he went too far."

Legacy: The Enduring Impact of McCarthyism

While McCarthy himself was discredited, McCarthyism continued to influence American politics and society into the early 1960s. The episode concludes by reflecting on the broader implications of McCarthy's actions, emphasizing the dangers of fear-driven politics and the fragility of civil liberties in times of crisis.

Quote Highlight:

Ellen Schrecker [27:00]: "Sometimes aberrant characters gain political power. What made him so powerful was that kind of lack of self-consciousness, pressing the envelope when he had no evidence whatsoever."

Conclusion

"Have You No Decency, Sir?" offers a comprehensive and engaging exploration of one of the most tumultuous periods in American history. Through expert interviews, vivid storytelling, and meticulous attention to detail, HISTORY This Week provides listeners with a nuanced understanding of McCarthyism's rise and fall, highlighting the enduring lessons about power, fear, and integrity in governance.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Sally Helm [00:02]: "20 million Americans are watching a Senate hearing on TV. It's a battle between the United States army and a man named Joseph McCarthy."
• Ellen Schrecker [07:07]: "You could talk about it as the home front of the Cold War."
• Ellen Schrecker [10:10]: "And that propelled him into the headlines right away."
• Sally Helm [18:54]: "McCarthy ripping into the reputations of both friend and foe alike in his attack on the army and its chiefs."
• Joseph Welch [01:54]: "No sense of decency, sir. At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"
• Ellen Schrecker [25:00]: "No sense of decency, sir. At long last, have you left."
• Ellen Schrecker [27:00]: "Sometimes aberrant characters gain political power. What made him so powerful was that kind of lack of self-consciousness, pressing the envelope when he had no evidence whatsoever."

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For more compelling historical narratives and in-depth analyses, stay tuned to HISTORY This Week. Subscribe, rate, and review the podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.

Transcript

[Sally Helm]

History this week, June 9, 1954. I'm Sally Helm. 20 million Americans are watching a Senate hearing on TV. It's a battle between the United States army and a man named Joseph McCarthy. They're arguing with about communists.

[Major Garrett]

Apparently every time anybody says anything against anybody working for Senate, McCarthy accusing them of communism.

[Sally Helm]

At this point, McCarthy is known as the nation's top communist hunter. And on one of the last days of these hearings, the people watching on TV see him do the thing he's famous for. He accuses someone of having ties to communism. When he makes this accusation, McCarthy looks calm. He's done this a million times. He's holding his glasses in one hand, sort of toying with them. Meanwhile, the guy on the other side of these hearings is getting angrier and angrier. His name is Joseph Welch. He's the lawyer for the Army, a pillar of the establishment. He's wearing a bow tie. And as he listens to McCarthy talk, Welch takes his glasses off, puts them back on, puts his hand on his forehead. He's agitated. McCarthy keeps talking until finally Welch cuts him off.

[Major Garrett]

Little did I dream you could be so reckless and so cruel as to do an injury to that lad.

[Sally Helm]

McCarthy starts to respond and Welch kind of loses it. His glasses are now entirely off and he utters these words.

[Major Garrett]

No sense of decency, sir. At long last, have you left no sense of decency.

[Sally Helm]

Have you no decency? Senator McCarthy has risen to power during a time of great fear in America. His name has become synonymous with anti communism and with baseless life ruining accusations. This hearing will be the end of him today. What made McCarthy so powerful in the first place? And how did that very same thing eventually bring him down? History this Week is now in its sixth season. Kind of crazy. And we love bringing you these stories. All of our work is supported by the ads you hear on the show. But if you don't want to hear those ads, we're now introducing history this week plus available exclusively on Apple Podcasts for just $2.99 per month. You'll get all of our new episodes without any of the ads and we'll be adding ad free versions of our older episodes too. So subscribe now and get your first week free. History this Week plus exclusively on Apple Podcasts.

[Ben Dickstein]

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[Major Garrett]

I'm CBS News chief Washington correspondent Major Garrett and you're invited to the takeout. No reservations required. Every weeknight our podcast serves up a balanced menu of politics, policy and pop culture. The day's happenings with curiosity, informality and humor. Serious discussion, but we don't take ourselves too seriously. Follow and listen to the takeout with me, Major Garrett on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Dickstein]

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[Ellen Schrecker]

I actually saw it live?

[Sally Helm]

Ellen schrecker was in ninth grade during the Army McCarthy hearings and she happened to turn on the TV when Joseph Welch delivered those famous words.

[Ellen Schrecker]

It was totally serendipitous. We turn on the hearings and there it was. Have you no decency, sir?

[Sally Helm]

Schrecker is now one of the historical experts on McCarthyism. She's written three books about it.

[Ellen Schrecker]

I sort of view myself as Ms. McCarthyism. You know, when you Google McCarthyism, you usually get me on the first page.

[Sally Helm]

In the 1950s, McCarthyism meant accusing a person or group of being a Communist or a Communist sympathizer and therefore a supposed threat to America. Schrecker says the term is a bit of a misnomer because the whole thing actually started before Senator McCarthy came on the scene. It started in the 1940s.

[Ellen Schrecker]

You could talk about it as the home front of the Cold War.

[Sally Helm]

After World War II, the superpowers that come out on top, the US and the Soviet Union, become each other's number one enemy.

[Ellen Schrecker]

There is a kind of anti Communist consensus in the country driven by the Cold War and a belief that maybe Communists are in some way endangering American security.

[Sally Helm]

Communists stealing secrets, a lot of this was unfounded.

[Ellen Schrecker]

But to be fair, there were spies.

[Sally Helm]

So there's this rising fear in the country. In response, in 1947, President Harry Truman enacts something known as the Loyalty Order. It says that federal employees will be investigated to make sure they're loyal to the US and they can be punished if they're not.

[Major Garrett]

In a series of dawn raids, FBI agents swoop down on Communists indicted on charges of advocating the violent overthrow of the government.

[Sally Helm]

This gets a little out of control, arguably stepping on people's constitutional rights. And then in 1949, American fears of communism hit new heights.

[Ellen Schrecker]

People assume we had a monopoly over nuclear power. Then in 1949, the Russians detonated an atomic bomb. How did the Russians get the atomic bomb? Spies.

[Sally Helm]

So anti Communist fervor is getting stronger and it's been leading to overreach and hysteria. People accused of communism were blacklisted, which meant careers, lives stopped in their tracks. There were accusations flying against all kinds of people. Actors in Hollywood, musicians, elementary school teachers and government officials. The Democrats control the White House and the Republican Party sees an opportunity to win it back. So they pick up an anti Communism crusade as a part of their campaign as early as 1948. In the midst of all that, in 1950, Republican Senator Joseph McCarthy enters the fray. He's a junior senator from Wisconsin and he's not an obvious power player.

[Ellen Schrecker]

He's a sort of jolly Irishman, very folksy, very hard working, at least initially. He wants to be liked, he wants a lot of attention. He knows how to get it.

[Sally Helm]

In February of 1950, McCarthy stands up before the Ohio County Women's Republican Club in Wheeling, West Virginia, and claims that he knows the names of more than 200 government officials who are part of the Communist Party.

[Ellen Schrecker]

And that propelled him into the headlines right away. He's sort of validating and explaining to people who are kind of upset about what's going on in the world. And he creates this conspiracy theory. It's communists in the State Department selling out the United States, simple as that.

[Sally Helm]

McCarthy's charges surpass any other accusations to date. And he's pointing a finger at the Democratic Truman administration and the Republican Party.

[Ellen Schrecker]

Which finds it a very politically powerful narrative, supports it.

[Sally Helm]

McCarthy becomes the face of, of anti communism. Now Truman is able to fight back. He's well liked, popular. But In June of 1950.

[Ellen Schrecker]

With the outbreak of the Korean War, McCarthy's charges all of a sudden have much more power because the United States is in a fighting war, a shooting war with communists.

[Sally Helm]

And McCarthy's crusade ignites.

[Ellen Schrecker]

He gains notoriety because his charges are so wild. He doesn't seem to care whether he's telling the truth or not. And people become afraid of him, even fellow senators. In the 1950 senatorial elections, several senators who had stood up against him lost their elections. And McCarthy is seen, seen as somehow uniquely powerful.

[Sally Helm]

He's still targeting officials in the Truman administration, and the Republicans hope that they might be able to beat the Democrats in the upcoming presidential election.

[Major Garrett]

In 1952, the Republican Party presents a united front. General Eisenhower win over Senator Taft on the first ballot, 845.

[Sally Helm]

They've nominated Dwight D. Eisenhower, a highly respected army veteran.

[Major Garrett]

After 40 years of distinguished army service, his nomination is a popular one to test by the acclaim from the floor.

[Sally Helm]

McCarthy is in many ways helping Eisenhower's campaign by painting the Democrats as soft on Communism. But Eisenhower hates McCarthy.

[Ellen Schrecker]

One of McCarthy's main targets is General George Marshall, who was Truman's Secretary of State and was Eisenhower's mentor.

[Sally Helm]

Eisenhower is an army man, and McCarthy's attacks on General Marshall feel personal. While campaigning in 1952, Eisenhower wants to come to Marshall's defense in speeches, but.

[Ellen Schrecker]

He is dissuaded from doing that. Powerful figures say, no, don't do that, and he pulls back. McCarthy was too valuable.

[Major Garrett]

The political miracle of the century begins to take form as millions of Americans go to the polls to elect a president.

[Sally Helm]

In the 1952 election, Eisenhower beats the Democrat, Adlai Stevenson, meaning that after 20 years, the GOP is back in the White House. And despite their beef, Eisenhower appoints McCarthy chairman of the Senate Committee on Government Operations.

[Ellen Schrecker]

He has his own committee to go looking for spies inside the government. And he goes wild.

[Sally Helm]

But under this popular Republican war hero president, the political narrative is different. It becomes harder in some ways for McCarthy to say the Eisenhower administration is stocked with Communists.

[Ellen Schrecker]

There's a growing feeling that maybe the witch hunters have run out of witches. People are beginning to realize that McCarthyism is going too far, that they're attacking people who are unjustly attacked.

[Sally Helm]

There are people, journalists, opposing politicians who are trying to bring McCarthy down a.

[Ellen Schrecker]

Peg, but it's not their moment. People were afraid of his power, but when he begins to attack the army, that is the moment at which his career is going to flounder.

[Sally Helm]

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[Sally Helm]

In 1954, a young lawyer from New York starts to work with McCarthy's Senate committee, Roy Cohn. He'd become a notorious communist hunter himself. He had tried Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, two famous communist spies. But Cohn was keeping a secret of his own.

[Ellen Schrecker]

Cohn is very gay and of course concealing it.

[Sally Helm]

Being gay in 1954 was not socially accepted. In fact, it was illegal and it had been painted as a threat to national security.

[Ellen Schrecker]

There is a sort of lavender scare against gay people on security grounds. The idea was that if people were gay, they could easily be blackmailed.

[Sally Helm]

Cohn himself is notorious for investigating State Department officials for being gay. And at the same time, rumors were circulating about his own sexuality and about his relationship with a young man named G. David Shine.

[Ellen Schrecker]

David Shine was hired by McCarthy's committee and he and Roy Cohn go overseas to Europe. And they engage in things like pillow fights in lobbies of hot and behave very sophomorically, shall we say.

[Sally Helm]

In 1954, Shine gets drafted into the army and cone gets involved. He didn't want Shine to get shipped overseas. Cone has friends in high places and he has the powerful feared Joseph McCarthy on his side. So he calls up the Secretary of the Army. The two of them have several charged phone calls with Cohn essentially demanding that.

[Ellen Schrecker]

Shine get special treatment to ensure that he can get a cushy job that requires him to spend most of his time in New York City, that he can take off whenever he wants to, that he doesn't have to do kitchen work.

[Sally Helm]

And it works. Shyne gets a cushy job. But the army has also secretly recorded these telephone calls that will become a big problem when McCarthy later turns his witch hunt to the Army.

[Ellen Schrecker]

All the low hanging fruit has been picked. He was really floundering, looking for anything he could find.

[Major Garrett]

The junior Senator from Wisconsin had, as the head of the permanent Senatorial Investigating Subcommittee, leveled an accusing finger at the United States Army. He claimed coddling of communists within its midst, basing his case on the giving of an honorable discharge to a captain who had refused to sign a loyalty oath. Recklessly, McCarthy ripped into the reputations of both friend and foe alike in his attack on the army and its chiefs.

[Ellen Schrecker]

And this is the moment when Eisenhower says, okay, what can we do with this guy? And so Eisenhower turns against him.

[Sally Helm]

Eisenhower wants to undermine McCarthy. Remember, he's an army guy himself. And in general, the Senator's baseless claims are becoming a political liability. Plus, McCarthy is an increasingly belligerent alcoholic. And on March 11, 1954, the army releases their recordings accusing McCarthy and Cohn of pressuring them to give preferential treatment to G. David Shine.

[Ellen Schrecker]

And Eisenhower establishes this special investigation to investigate what happened to David Shine in the Army. Was he using undue influence to get special treatment? And uses these investigations of David Chine and Roy Cohn as a way to undermine McCarthy's power.

[Sally Helm]

McCarthy doesn't back down, he countercharges. He's like, we didn't pressure you to give Shine this cushy gig. You did that to try and convince me not to expose people in the army who are communist traitors.

[Major Garrett]

On April 22, 1954, the Wisconsin Senator stepped down from his committee chairmanship so that he might defend his case against the Army. In a full public hearing before the.

[Sally Helm]

Committee, he in these hearings, Roy Cohn and McCarthy will represent themselves and a lawyer named Joseph Welch will represent the Army.

[Ellen Schrecker]

Joseph Welsh was just the quintessential establishment lawyer out of what we would call a white shoe law firm in Boston.

[Sally Helm]

Welch has been preparing carefully for these hearings. He knows McCarthy's tactics. He has to be ready for the Senator to cry communism. So before the hearings begin, Welch goes out to dinner with two young lawyers on the case.

[Ellen Schrecker]

And he asks, is there anything in your past or in your present that you should tell me that would disqualify you? And this young attorney named Fred Fisher says, yes. When I was at Harvard Law School, I belonged to an organization called the National Lawyers Guild, which has been attacked as a communist front organization. And Welch says, thank you very much. Why don't you stay in Boston?

[Sally Helm]

Fisher is off the case. Welch knows this would be too big a liability in the hearings. And if McCarthy does go after him, that could ruin Fisher's career. In fact, before the hearings, Welch makes a backroom deal with Cohn and McCarthy. They agree not to bring up this young lawyer, Fred Fisher. If Welch won't bring up the fact that Roy Cohn, who had been accepted to West Point, failed his physical in 1954America, that would have been a huge embarrassment. And so, on April 22nd, the Army McCarthy hearings come to order.

[Major Garrett]

Press and television faithfully recorded the day by day clash of the two adversaries in what soon turned into a monumental mudslinging contest.

[Sally Helm]

20 million Americans are watching on TV.

[Ellen Schrecker]

These hearings, in a sense, made television as much as television made the hearings.

[Sally Helm]

The hearings last weeks. And as they go on, the public is seeing McCarthy's nasty tactics up close. And they don't like what they see.

[Major Garrett]

McCarthy's stock sunk to a new low the day he attacked the Army's counsel, Boston attorney Joseph Welch.

[Ellen Schrecker]

The ism of McCarthyism was beginning to fade.

[Sally Helm]

And then on June 9, 1954, McCarthy's image shatters.

[Ellen Schrecker]

I remember seeing this moment that was just jaw dropping.

[Sally Helm]

Here's the backstory. McCarthy had a martini lunch. And after lunch, when the hearings start up again, he's a little out of it. Welch and Cohn start going at it, lawyer to lawyer. Cohn is saying he knows the names of 130 communist spies in American defense plants. And Welch is taunting him, kind of mock pleading with Cohn to find those Communists before sundown.

[Major Garrett]

No, the. Just answer me. That must be right. It has to be right. No, what I might like to do and what can be done is, well, if you could be God and do anything you wish, you'd cure it by sundown, wouldn't you?

[Sally Helm]

And McCarthy, with maybe a few too many martinis in him, takes this whole exchange a little personally. When he has the chance to speak.

[Ellen Schrecker]

McCarthy says, I have something to tell you. Do you know you have a young man in your law firm who belongs to a communist organization, which is incredibly damaging. That automatically would Blacklist anybody. And McCarthy is making this charge at a nationally televised hearing that everybody's been watching for weeks, and it's just extraordinary.

[Sally Helm]

Welch is incredulous. Cohn looks horrified. He even tries to lean over and get McCarthy to stop talking.

[Ellen Schrecker]

Now, Welch was prepared. He didn't trust McCarthy.

[Sally Helm]

Welch tries to reason with him.

[Major Garrett]

We know he belongs to the Lawyers Guild. And Mr. Cohen nods his head at me. I did you. I take no personally.

[Ellen Schrecker]

How could you do this? How could you ruin this young man's life? McCarthy doesn't get it. He just plain doesn't get it. He.

[Sally Helm]

He continues, which is when Welch delivers the final blow.

[Major Garrett]

No sense of decency, sir. At long last, have you left. No sense of decency.

[Ellen Schrecker]

And everybody gets it. All of us who are watching get it. Everybody had heard about McCarthy making unfounded accusations against people and ruining their lives. And they're seeing it live. All of a sudden, the emperor has no clothes.

[Sally Helm]

The only person who doesn't get it is McCarthy himself.

[Ellen Schrecker]

All of a sudden, there is McCarthy left alone in this hearing room. Everybody else is sort of leaving, and he doesn't realize what he's done.

[Sally Helm]

As Schrecker told us, public opinion was ready to turn on McCarthy. That had been building for a while. But this moment is powerful political theater.

[Ellen Schrecker]

That moment of have you no decency? Sort of encapsulates the fact that McCarthy, who symbolizes McCarthyism, is now no longer legitimate. From that point on, he comes under attack, not just from Democrats and liberals, but other members of the Republican Party.

[Sally Helm]

In the fall, McCarthy is censured by the Senate, mainly for his attacks on the Army.

[Ellen Schrecker]

Once he's censured, he pretty much falls apart. He's lost his power.

[Sally Helm]

Three years later, McCarthy dies from complications of alcoholism. He was only 48 now. McCarthyism was always bigger than McCarthy. And even after he's discredited by have you no decency? Even after he dies, McCarthyism sputters on into the early 60s. But there's a reason people were so captivated by McCarthy himself.

[Ellen Schrecker]

Sometimes aberrant characters gain political power. What made him so powerful was that kind of lack of self consciousness, pressing the envelope when he had no evidence whatsoever. That kind of thing was something that he was willing to do. He was taking risks.

[Sally Helm]

At first this helped him and his political allies, but ultimately it was the very thing that brought him down.

[Ellen Schrecker]

That character of his was useful until he went too far.

[Sally Helm]

Thanks for listening to History this week. For more moments throughout history that are also worth watching. Check your local TV listings to find out what's on History today. This podcast is produced by McCamey, Lynn, Julie Magruder, Ben Dickstein and me, Sally Helm. Our editor and sound designer is Chris Boniello and our researcher is Emma Fredericks. Our executive producers are Jesse Katz and Ted Butler. Don't forget to subscribe, rate and review History this Week, wherever you get your podcasts and we will see you next week.