Tim Ross: the Australian comedian on the life-changing effect of modest, modernist buildings – and tinted moisturiser

Summary

Podcast Summary: Tim Ross on the Life-Changing Effect of Modernist Buildings and Personal Reflections on Home

Podcast Information:

• Title: Homing In
• Host/Author: Matt Gibberd and The Modern House
• Episode Title: Tim Ross: the Australian comedian on the life-changing effect of modest, modernist buildings – and tinted moisturiser
• Release Date: June 21, 2024

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1. Introduction and Background

In this episode of Homing In, Matt Gibberd welcomes Australian broadcaster and comedian Tim Ross. Known for his unique niche of performing stand-up comedy within architecturally significant buildings, Tim has graced stages like the Sydney Opera House and London's Beatty Tower. His passion for modernist architecture, often showcased under his moniker "Modernista," has not only defined his career but also fostered a dedicated following on platforms like Instagram and Australian television.

2. Tim's Upbringing and Early Influences

Tim Ross recounts his childhood spent in Melbourne's Ranelar Estate, affectionately dubbed "the cradle of modernism." Designed by prominent architects like Walter Burley Griffin and Marion Marty Griffin, the estate was instrumental in shaping Tim's appreciation for modernist design.

Tim Ross [02:48]: "Growing up in the Ranelar Estate, surrounded by great modernist houses, was hugely formative for me. There was a constant presence of architecture that, at the time, I didn’t fully understand but now, it’s ingrained in me."

He shares nostalgic memories, such as playing BMX with his brothers and observing unique architectural elements, which subtly influenced his later pursuits.

3. Career Beginnings and Modernist Comedy

Tim's foray into blending comedy with architecture began with his show "Harry Seidler the Great," performed in Seidler's modernist box. Initially met with mixed reactions, Tim persevered, integrating architectural narratives with humor, which gradually resonated with broader audiences.

Tim Ross [08:53]: "As I've done a few telly shows, the broader audience comes in and design literacy has gone through the roof for a bunch of different reasons. So people are interested."

This innovative approach not only differentiated him in the comedy scene but also elevated public interest in modernist architecture.

4. Personal Life and Family

Delving into his personal life, Tim discusses the profound influence of his parents. His mother, a dedicated GP, instilled in him a strong work ethic and compassion, while his father, a pharmacist turned antiques dealer, ignited Tim's passion for furniture collecting.

Tim Ross [12:54]: "My father decided he wanted to be an antiques dealer and gave up his career to do that, never really making a dollar out of it, but just loved it."

Tim also touches on the challenges posed by his father's Alzheimer's, revealing the emotional complexities intertwined with his appreciation for home and family.

5. Perspective on Australian Modernism and National Identity

Tim expresses concern over the undervaluation of Australian design, emphasizing how globalization has overshadowed indigenous architectural achievements. He highlights the resilience and innovation inherent in Australian modernism, advocating for greater recognition and preservation.

Tim Ross [16:07]: "Australians are really good designers, really good. It's part of our DNA. But it's not valued enough in our country for a bunch of different reasons, and it's a forgotten skill."

6. Favorite Houses and Design Elements

Anecdotes about his aunt’s merchant builder’s house illustrate the deep personal connections Tim has with modernist architecture. Designed by Charles Duncan, the house exemplifies the blend of functionality and aesthetic appeal that defines his favorite spaces.

Tim Ross [22:09]: "My favorite homes always speak of that there's things from their families, things from their travels, things that reflect their personalities."

7. Current Home and Furniture Collection

Tim describes his current residence, a 1958 modernist house in Sydney. His passion for collecting mid-century furniture complements the architectural integrity of his home, creating a cohesive and inspiring living space.

Tim Ross [28:05]: "The house smiles at me and it lifts my spirit in the way that there's something that modernism does in that way and that propels you forward."

His collection not only adorns his home but also serves as a testament to his enduring love for design and history.

8. Challenges of Living in a Modernist Home with Family

Balancing family life with preserving the integrity of his modernist home presents unique challenges. Tim discusses practical modifications made for safety and comfort, as well as the ongoing negotiation between preserving architectural elements and accommodating family needs.

Tim Ross [36:04]: "We have to live with it. I'm going to build again. I'm not going to do that."

Despite these challenges, Tim finds joy in the functionality and aesthetic appeal of his home, striving to maintain its original charm while adapting to his family's evolving needs.

9. Future Plans and Aging

Looking ahead, Tim envisions a future where he remains connected to nature and the landscape, emphasizing the importance of adaptability and personal fulfillment in his living arrangements. He expresses a desire to avoid the rigidity of purpose-built retirement homes, opting instead for spaces that allow for spontaneity and continued personal growth.

Tim Ross [59:35]: "I want space, I want nature. That's the defining thing for me because as I get older, working physically is more interesting for me."

10. The Importance of Home

In the concluding segment, Tim reflects deeply on the duality of home as both a sanctuary for solitude and a vibrant space for family and social interactions. He highlights how architectural design can influence one's emotional well-being and sense of belonging.

Tim Ross [69:05]: "Home becomes two things, this sort of duality of solitude, family. The house smiles at me and it lifts my spirit in the way that there's something that modernism does in that way and that propels you forward."

He emphasizes that home is not merely a physical space but a repository of memories, relationships, and personal history, underscoring its profound impact on one's identity and life journey.

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Notable Quotes:

• Tim Ross [00:00]: Discusses the enduring joy his modernist house brings him.
• Tim Ross [08:53]: Highlights the increasing public interest in design literacy.
• Tim Ross [16:07]: Comments on the undervaluation of Australian design.
• Tim Ross [22:09]: Speaks about the personal significance of well-loved homes.
• Tim Ross [69:05]: Summarizes the dual nature of home in his life.

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This episode of Homing In offers a poignant exploration of how architecture shapes personal experiences and identities. Through Tim Ross's stories, listeners gain insight into the intricate relationship between living spaces and the human spirit, celebrating the beauty and complexity of modernist design.

Transcript

[Tim Ross]

Side of the house where when I'm there by myself and the chaos is gone, when the kids have gone off to school, Michelle's left and it's just me. And I can sit there, particularly in autumn, and this sort of. I just warm myself in the sun like a cat and it's just magical. And that's really the time for me where that architect in 1956 or 1957 made some decisions about how that house is going to be, where it's orientated. The fact that it can still fill me with joy all these years later is extraordinary. What a gift. I wasn't thinking about that then. It's a client, but. And I. And the house smiles at me and it lifts my spirit in the way that there's something that modernism does in that way and that propels you forward.

[Host]

Hello, welcome to another episode of Homing In. Today's guest is Tim Ross, who is an Australian broadcaster and comedian. Tim's forged a bit of a niche for himself which I love, which is that he performs stand up comedy inside architecturally significant buildings. So he's performed at the Sydney Opera House, the Beatty Tower in London and all sorts of other private modernist houses as well. He's a massive modernism nut, so some of you may know him as modernista. He has a very well followed Instagram account and he's on TV quite a bit in Australia. I was really interested to get to know him a bit in this conversation. He's come over to London to do a show at the Isicon Gallery, which is part of the Isocom building in Belsize park, and he tells me all about his upbringing. So he grew up in the outskirts of Melbourne, which he calls the cradle of modernism, where I think he really sort of learned the lessons of what modernist architecture is all about. And he particularly remembers a night with his parents when he went for dinner at one of their friends houses and it was a modern house with a circular lounge and he thought this was incredibly cool, even at the age of five or six. But he remembers the sound of laughter and joy. And I think a lot of his career really has been about trying to recreate that particular heady moment. He is now living in his own version of a Modernist House, a 1958 house in Sydney. And this has really been a way into a whole new world of people for him and I think also helped launch his TV career as well. He's a lovely, lovely guy. I really enjoyed this conversation. I didn't expect to be getting beauty tips as well, but life is Full of surprises. I hope you enjoy listening. And yeah, here it is. So the idea is to explore your life, Tim. This is your life through the lens of the homes that you've lived in and maybe a spa to live in. So if we start off with the past, where did you grow up?

[Tim Ross]

So I grew up in the outer suburbs of Melbourne and a little town called. And it's right there on the beach. And they call it, strangely enough, they call it the cradle of modernism. In Melbourne, where I hung out as a kid riding a BMX around with my brothers. It's this thing called Ranelar Estate, which was designed by Walter Burley Griffin, who designed Canberra, and Marion Marty Griffin, who. She did most of Frank Lloyd Wright's early drawings until they had a falling out. And amongst that was all these great houses that were designed by all the great architects at the time, from the 1930s up until the 1960s and 70s. And so it was a hugely formative for me, of course, didn't know it at the time, that to be in that area and see all the buildings. I think there's that thing where it's a constant, I think, when I talk to people. And there's this idea that there was always houses around the corner from your own that were far more interesting than your own. And for me, they were always the modernist ones and there was plenty of them. And we had a funny little 1960s sort of project home. They called them A.V. jennings. It was a little modernist house in its own way, but it sat right in the bush. And so that was really what defined my childhood in all those cliches. There's wallabies around, kangaroos come home from school, there'd be a koala in the backyard, which doesn't happen now. When I was a kid, I was in the. Dad made this sand pit and there's a red belly, black snake. He came out and hit it with a spade. And then he was a chemist and my dad. So he put it in a jar of formaldehyde. And then we took it to whenever we had to do show and tell at school, out came the snake in the jar. Every there is show and tell time, my brothers, for six years. So it was. It was very much defined by that idea of my parents. Like, lots of people were chasing housing, affordability, so they went further and further out to buy a block of land and mucking around in the bush. So you combine that with some really interesting architecture that I just. It just sits in the back of your mind, I think. And I liken it to those great songs of how David and Bird backrack one day without ever owning an album. You love every one of the songs. It's this power of sort of architecture to get underneath your skin and sit there. I don't know whether you have these. We used to do these things where you have these time capsules where you'd bury something at school with books and magazines and pair of footy socks or something from the time and then dig it up 50 years later. I think that's what happens with design. So many things like. And then you want. For me, what sort of defines what I do is. Is almost wanting to go back and see those buildings and all those things as an adult that I didn't quite. Couldn't quite see when I was a kid.

[Host]

Okay.

[Tim Ross]

And I'm haunted by this memory of my parents taking me to a dinner party they went to. And the house was this sort of round modernist house that had a circular lounge with a fireplace in the middle. And I remember falling asleep. I would have been four or five or something, maybe even younger. Just the twinkle of the lights across the bay and just falling asleep while there's a sort of cacophony of laughter going on. And my parents having classic 70s dinner party shenanigans. And I'd say to my folks, what was that house? And they can't remember it. And I was like, I couldn't remember it. And I said, oh, one day I'll find out what it was. But that those little things, they have a huge impact on your life, I think.

[Host]

So that sounds like your show, man. About the house. That's what that is, isn't it? Really? It sounds like it's harking back to that moment.

[Tim Ross]

Yeah, it is, absolutely. I think it's when we were kids and we'd be watching Doctor who and Mum would put the black and white tally and they'd put the. Mum would be making a cake and she'd put the Mixmaster on. And the TV used to get all the static. So I want to make the static go away and see what was going on. Yeah. And I think because I wanted to go inside those houses as an adult, the idea of being able to get into some really great houses and perform is an absolute dream for an architecture nerd.

[Host]

Yeah. I haven't been to one of your shows, but tell me about that. How does that work, that confluence of comedy and modernist architecture? Because on paper it does. Yeah. Everybody hates it. Nobody's on paper. It's obviously.

[Tim Ross]

It's yeah, yeah. I mean, there's a reason there's not a lot of comedians who happen to be architectural nerds. Look, in the early days, it really didn't. And the first ever show that I did is Harry Seidler the Great. He's a great Australian architect and he really. He designed this house for his parents in the late 1940s. And it's this modernist box that really did land in the suburbs, like a shake, a spaceship. And he'd just come from America and it'd been working with Marcel. And then it really is a take on that. And people would drive to see it, like his mum would be there doing the washing up and like, people just drive their cars up to the suburbs to look at this house that had been in the newspapers. And even to this day it does strike as a great museum, house museum, that well and truly ahead of its time in terms of. And that's. That's the power of modernism, isn't it? To say, wow, this is a house from the 1940s. But it still makes me feel like this is really contemporary and this. I want to live here, I want to be part of it. And so I'd been working with the Sydney living museums for a while and I said, I've got this idea. Do you think we could do a show in the house? And they said, yeah, yeah, that sounds like a great idea. And I didn't really know what it was and had a bunch of jokes and my mate, who's a musician kid, who's been doing the show with me forever, and then the very first show, we could only put about 60 people in the house. There was. Front two rows were full of people in their late 70s and early 80s. It's like, fine, but it was a bit surprised. And then they sort of laughed through it. And then I said to them, I said, oh, how'd you find the show? And they said, oh, it looks. It was really good. But we came along thinking it was a musical adaptation of man about the House, the TV show. So they're slowly disappointed on that. But I think as time has gone on and I started learn a bit more and I got a bit more confident to talk about things and I could mix some comedy with stories about the houses or architectural. And I think. And then as I've done a few telly shows, that the broader audience comes in and design literacy has gone through the roof for a whole bunch of different reasons, all over the place. And so people are interested.

[Host]

Does it take the pressure off you? In some ways, because actually, in the end, if people, for whatever reason, don't enjoy the show, there's always the house.

[Tim Ross]

Yeah, totally. Yeah. The house does the heavy lifting. I have people who come to the shows to see the house. Yeah, that's like when we used to do. For years, we were doing the BT Tower here for the festival architecture. And that used to sell out for people just because you couldn't get up there. And then like, oh, God, we've got to sit through a show now. But they ended up liking it. And it was. There's something really great about that because you come to London as an Australian, invariably, you always played Aussies that live here. But those shows weren't as interesting to Australians because they don't have the same connection to the building. And so that's a classic example of kids walking past with their mum and dad and looking up and going, gosh, I really want to go into that building. You know, we knew it from the TV show the Goodies with the giant kitten knocked it over. And that's that interesting thing of how architecture gets in your head from all sorts of places. Here's a building I saw as a kid when they're playing the Goodies for a hundredth time, which they never did here, which is the absurd thing, but it was huge in Australia, but. And this is the building from the Goodies with the giant kitten. Google it, kids. And then. Then I'm performing in it. But that I like. I like that, that. That you can get people in to see a building and then hopefully they'll enjoy the show as well, and vice versa. I get people to come along because they might have listened to me on the radio or something like that. And then like, oh, I've never really thought about architecture and how space works and. And how much. How it can make your life better.

[Host]

That's great, isn't it? So as a kid, you said that you were on a peripheral level, aware of this kind of architecture, but we all know as a child, you don't necessarily engage with it, particularly on a kind of academic level. Were you into as a kid, what would we have found you doing on an average weekend?

[Tim Ross]

I loved cricket. I was mad for cricket as a kid.

[Host]

Yeah. You're Australian.

[Tim Ross]

Yeah, Loved it. And I think that we used to play in the bush a lot. We used to ride our bikes around. We'd make things. We get billy. Dad used to make billy carts, and we just make these jumps, almost try and kill ourselves. There was so much freedom in those days to do, you know, you just roam around the place and like we used to knock on people's doors to make money and say, can we do. Have you got any odd jobs that we can do? And then you go into a stranger's house and clean things and stuff. It's like, whoa, hang on. It seems absurd now, but they, as I said, they were simpler times. And I loved Australian. I was a weird. I think I've always been a weird nerd in lots of ways. And I think that sort of carries through to what I do now because if I'm into something, I'm really into it and I'll try and make it part of my life and part of.

[Host]

My work and tell me about your parents. What were they like and what did they do?

[Tim Ross]

My mother was a gp and she was a really interesting and powerful force. Deeply caring woman, worked hard, extraordinary work ethic. Went with that a lot to educators and also really importantly, I think, battled a lot. And she was all the way through her career, a lot of the time the only woman in the room.

[Host]

Okay.

[Tim Ross]

And when she finished university, she was ducks. And I remember, look, this old newspaper article of her and with the two other top of the class people and they were this sort of, oh, she's going to find time for a career with housework, was all that stuff. So she was incredibly important in terms of shaping my brothers and I, amongst other things. My old man, he's still hanging on, but he was a pharmacist, became an antiques dealer. And so I've always been a furniture collector. And I think that came from dad. There was always stuff, weird stuff in the house and he would, he was interested in things. He didn't collect them in the same way I collect them. He just, he was probably more of a hoarder in some ways. And he would happily sell anything he didn't want to hold on to much. He really wouldn't care, like he. That's what. And that was the difference with it, I think. Dealing was just like. We'd come home some days and he'd just take something out of the house and be sick of it and put in the shop or some. Sell my brother's footy cards or something like that.

[Host]

So it wasn't an emotional transaction for him.

[Tim Ross]

For him it was. He'd like to work out where things are from. This is a Providence junkie, I suppose, and the story of things, how it worked. And I think he'd always say, what do you think this is? Where did it come from? Oh, then he'd explain It. Because the process. Or he'd find he'd buy a bunch of things and then there'd be photos of a family or something, and then he'd go through the phone book and try and return them to families and all. He just always. I don't know. Peculiar man. But that sort of shaped me. I loved the way that dad basically decided he wanted to be an antiques dealer and gave up his career to do that, and never really made a dollar out of it, but just loved it because he loved talking to people. And he did it till he was 80 or something, which was really fantastic until he really couldn't do it anymore. But he'd just sit there and people come in and sell mold cameras or whatever. So, yeah, I think that's, in terms of a gentleman who followed his passions is really inspiring.

[Host]

Does he live on his own now?

[Tim Ross]

He does, in a terrible little. One of those terrible little homes. He's got Alzheimer's. Yeah, it's. It's horrible.

[Host]

That is horrible. Do you see much of him or.

[Tim Ross]

I live in Sydney, lives in Melbourne, so I don't see as much of him as I want. Yeah, it's the grimmest thing in the world, having to live like that.

[Host]

Yeah. So you've got brothers, you said. Where. What position are you in? The.

[Tim Ross]

I'm the youngest, and I think because they're older, they're bigger than me, they tended to pair up and do everything together. And then I could just do my weird stuff on the side. I think that's. I think it's got a huge part of why I've become a strange man with strange passions, because I just run my own race. And if they're just physically bigger. So if you would. And they were just happy to do. They're playing tight and tennis together. And so there was no room for me to play. And if I played, I'd get out straight away. I'd be no good at it, so I would just not bother and then go and do my own thing.

[Host]

So were you a bit of an outsider then, or a loner in retrospect?

[Tim Ross]

Probably, yes. And I think I've always been an outsider in lots of ways, particularly in a sense of the identity of a classic Australian male. 100%.

[Host]

What do you mean by that?

[Tim Ross]

Oh, just the sort of that classic blokey, Aussie bravado. Super, super masculine. Yeah, everything. I just haven't been that person because.

[Host]

I've spoken to other people on this podcast who have interestingly said that they feel like they were born into the wrong place somehow. What do you make of that?

[Tim Ross]

What do you.

[Host]

How would you define your sense of Australian ness? If I could put it like that.

[Tim Ross]

It's a really good question. I just think I see my sense of identity sometimes differently to other people. So one of the things I've been really passionately doing over the years is Australians are really good designers, really good. And it's part of our DNA. And we've had to, because of isolation and what we've been able to create in isolation, whether it's cars or houses, products, all sorts of things. Industrial design, art, everything, like all these wonderful things, it's not valued enough in our country for a bunch of different reasons, and it's a forgotten skill. And we don't honour our designers in the way that other places do. Architecture, we don't. Doesn't sit on the pedestal in the way it does in other places. So I get a great sense of national pride in those sorts of stories.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tim Ross]

Whereas other people would find it'd be sport or some sort of other sense that particularly sport is the big focus on the way that Australians like to define themselves. And then we've. Like when I was a kid, lots of things that we used were designed and made in Australia and then we stopped doing it for a whole bunch of different reasons. Mostly we got rid of tariffs economically, things didn't stack up or something. We all. We designed cars. All our cars were made and designed and made in Australia and they were fabulous cars. And now we don't do that anymore. So a huge part of who we were disappeared. And globalization had a great deal to do with that. And the world's changed in remarkable ways, but we've. We didn't mourn any of it, which was really sad.

[Host]

Yeah. I always think the French have got that right. They seem to cling on so well to their sense of heritage.

[Tim Ross]

And we just, absolutely just went. We're not doing this anymore. It's easier to dig stuff out of the ground than do stuff with it. So all the money that's ever been made in my country has been made from knowing where the mines are going to go, where the roads are going to go, where the airport's going to go. And there's a deep sense of, over the last 200 years plus years is that the reason for being there was to exploit the country. And what's happening in the nation at the moment is this idea that's wrong and we're on a path to hopefully a different way of seeing everything, because it's A fragile country, and the planet's fragile, and we can't keep exploiting it like we always have. We have to put some value in country, which is really important.

[Host]

So looking back to your childhood, was there a time when you realized that you could make people laugh and that gave you some sort of thrill?

[Tim Ross]

Yeah, I've always loved being on stage. Yes. And I was at this funny old church camp, and I was doing some play, playing some American evangelist preacher, and everyone was laughing. I was like, this is amazing. This is the best thing ever. And then when I was in high school, I managed to ping a decent role in a school play where we did it with the sister school, the girls school. And I'd been invisible until I did this play. And we did this sort of musical adaptation of the book, Kes. And suddenly. Seems like a bizarre thing for us to be doing, isn't it? Like 1985, doing it. I had this English drama teacher. I suppose he wanted the Kestrels, but, yeah, by rights, I shouldn't even know what that book is. But suddenly there was a visibility that happens from that. So it's two. There's two things that happen. Your ego gets a hit because you go, I'm on stage. And then suddenly girls notice you. Life's more interesting, isn't it?

[Host]

How old are you at that point?

[Tim Ross]

14 or 15.

[Host]

It's interesting, isn't it? Because that sounds, if I could apply some very cod psychology to it, you being the kind of youngest sibling who was a bit cast aside in many respects, having your moment in the limelight, that must have been a real thrill.

[Tim Ross]

Were they any. Are you the youngest?

[Host]

No, I'm the oldest.

[Tim Ross]

Yes. The elder. So the. The one thing with the youngest is that no matter what your age is, you. They know it. Your older brothers never listen to you. Like, I'm 52, and I'm like, hang on a second, guys. Can I just have. Can I just. I've got a. I've got a viewpoint on this, and you have to be really firm about it. It's fascinating. Fascinating, but it's really. And my brothers don't share any of my interests. So that whole conversation about houses around the corner being more interesting that I watch resonate with people. Doesn't matter where it is. It resonates with anyone who's interested in that way. So, you know, the Americans particularly see it in the same way it happens here, too. My brothers will have a blank stare to that they didn't not see what I saw. And the hardest thing it is if you've got. With your siblings, is coming to terms with the fact that even though you grew up in exactly the same house, that your value system is completely different a lot of the time. And if you can't get your head around that, you'll go insane for the rest of your life. You just have to go. They just see the world differently to me, but not that they don't appreciate it. They just were not. They just. There was like. If I said, oh, do you remember this house, this roundhouse by royal grounds in 1953? Went past it a thousand times. No, no, didn't say it, but it's the same. You would have spoken to people who have grown up in really interesting houses and that has no effect on their lives.

[Host]

Why is that?

[Tim Ross]

I don't know.

[Host]

There's a guy.

[Tim Ross]

There's a guy whose kids play soccer with my sons and he lived in our house for a period of time as a kid and he remembers it being dark. I live in a modernist house in Sydney. I don't know how you can make it dark. It's impossible to get. And even the same thing, when the guy, the original owner of the house came, the son, not sentimental about it in terms of. And I'd say to him, what was it like? Did your friends think it was cool or. No, he just goes, I see that balustrade. One of my mates, Greg put his head through there at mid 12th birthday and they had to call the fire brigade. And that's it. That's. That was mum and dad's bedroom originally. That's where they went for it. And I went, oh, thank you very much. He's a dentist who has a McDonald's franchise. That's his life. So there's no rhyme or reason with this stuff. It's really fascinating it, isn't it?

[Host]

Where did you spring from then?

[Tim Ross]

Don't know. And probably because you made that thing is, I'm doing my own thing over here. Maybe that's what it is. And also I think the. The comedian's mind is that a lot of radio. So years and years of daily radio where you just need material all the time. So every time you have a conversation with someone, you take their story. I might use that and bloody do some talk back on that one tomorrow. And so you're just mining information. So I think I also have a. The comedian's mind, the way that I look at the world. So I think I'm just like. Yeah, I think I'm far more of a sponge. I just. And I Don't know what other people look at. But I suppose we know we can't sit inside someone else's head and go, are they looking over there the whole time and going, I wonder what that lamp is. Or that's interesting, that brickworks. Deep in the detail. Look at this. In this room. Looking at the stramit roof, going, oh yeah, all those things. Yeah. We just, we don't know how people see things or some people are daydreamers, some people aren't. I'm definitely a daydreamer.

[Host]

And your aunt's house was important to you, wasn't it? Tell me about that.

[Tim Ross]

So my aunt was a university lecturer and she lived around the corner from where I ended up going to university. And she lives in this estate, she still lives there. And we, it's funny because we didn't. We weren't super close for years and then suddenly as I got more and more interested in architecture, we came to. We came really close. It's really been really great. And I ended up putting a house in one of my telly shows. But. So she lives in a merchant builder's house. And this really fabulous thing happened in Australia in the 1960s where it came a thing called Small Home Services. So he had a couple of really great architects, including Robin Boyd, who's one of the best known Australian architects of the post war period. Did a bunch of really interesting houses and he had TV shows and radio shows. He wrote a column, wrote a great book called the Australian Ugliness. And so he was like. I always describe him, he's like the Kevin MacLeod of his time in terms of the way that we see Kevin in Australia. And they come with this idea where you. There's this huge population boom in Australia in the 1950s. You know, population will perish. They'd lost all these small country, lost a whole bunch of men at war. So we need people in case we get invaded again. So people come from all over the world and they need places to stay. Returned soldiers need places to live. And you could. So we need to design really great houses for them. So for a small amount of money, a few pounds, you could get plans for architect design home. Really good ones, small, really modest places. And people built them themselves out in the suburbs. And what spun out of that was a movement for architect design project homes. I don't know, I don't know what the equivalent term for project homes here is.

[Host]

Self build.

[Tim Ross]

No, they're more like. They call them tract homes in America, those ones where you volume build. So these Companies instead, there was always crappy companies building cheap, replicated homes. Then why don't we get some architects to design better homes? So for a period of time in the 60s and 70s, most of our really good architects at some stage designed homes for everyday Australians, which is really significant. And so you saw this explosion of great architecture in the suburbs and one of the best versions of it was the one that. One of the ones my aunt had merchant Builders home, and her one was designed by a guy called Charles Duncan. And weirdly enough, my much older cousin, as I found out years later, lived with him for a while. Bit weird, but, you know, need some spice on these things sometimes. And it was flat roof, rough sawn timber, Oregon clinker brick, which is mismatched brown brick. There's a story that goes with this sort of style of brick that was quite popular in Australia in the 1960s, that one of the guys in the brick factory left them in, went and had a few beers at lunch, left them in the kiln for too long, chucked them to the side. One of the architects comes along and says, what are those bricks? And they're all miscolored and misshaped. And they said, I don't know, there was. They're a new type of brick we're doing, and they were cheap and he bought them and so it became a thing. And so this. The colours of the bush were big in that time, there was an awakening in terms of designing for our landscape. Up until that stage, our homes have been really European in nature and so modernism works really well with the Australian bush. Opening up to the landscape, we go great, we've got a great climate and that's what this house was, really modest in size, a perfect plan. And it's more akin to, I suppose, that sort of California modernism than anything else that. That I. If I was going to describe it for people, and I didn't really understand it much, but I knew it was interesting and it was, it was a much better home than our home, the way that I felt about it. And then of course, as always happens, you look at it and think, wow, why did it have that effect on me? Oh, cause it's a really important house. They weren't super successful, unfortunately, but it went now a little bit more expensive than a normal house that you just get off the shelf. But still, for many people, they could afford one of these houses.

[Host]

And as a child, Tim, could you have described why it was better than your house?

[Tim Ross]

It was newer, I think was only by 10 years or something. It was more. I think it was just. It was more cohesive. The bathroom was more modern, but I remember all the details from it. And now everything was so considered. I had these brown doorknobs. They're like a tennis ball. And then years later, I was doing some research on them and they were. Used those knobs in all their marketing. And for a period of time I was looking at making them because I thought people might want to use them. Didn't. We didn't finish that project, but I. I had a color tv. All those things that for kids are important, but it's a feel of a place. And then you add on top of that, we go there for Christmas and you get presents. Mum and dad are happy, they're drinking. I see my aunts and uncles, we play cricket with my cousins. You know, everything stops, everyone's happy. And then you're doing it in a really interesting house. It elevates everything but the land. And what I didn't also didn't get it. It was a house where you. There's no footpaths, all the power's underground. It backs onto a bush and a golf course. And the landscaping is all Australian natives, so it's unmistakably Australian. And that would. There was a guy called Ella Stones who was a great landscape architect and he was the first to sort of champion the idea that you could have a bush garden and you could. We started. That's this time when we started to see the. Our native flowers and trees turn up all the time in our gardens. Where grandparents house in the suburbs looked like an English cottage garden. Really. And fruit trees, the whole lot. Nothing wrong with fruit trees. But yeah, it just. There's just an awakening. And my childhood is deeply embedded in that awakening of Australian culture.

[Host]

Well, speaking of houses that are important to you, let's move on to your current house. We'll put pictures, some pictures up on our website of these places we're talking about. But yours is pretty amazing. So tell us about this one.

[Tim Ross]

So I've always collected furniture. So I got all this furniture. It's like, oh, it's me. Too much for modern furniture, I think. Oh, just. I wouldn't mind putting it in a modernist house. And 20, as close to 20 years ago, no one wanted them. And I was looking right out into the suburbs to find one in Sydney. And the house where I live now is reasonably close. And I went along and I just went, Wow, 1958. At the time, I didn't know who designed it and I fell in love with it. And I was. Took my builder, he goes back, this thing's solid as buy it. I don't have to do anything. And I just. It was just incredibly exciting. And it's not the most sophisticated in terms of 1950s houses, but it's pretty simple. But then, of course, the stories come out about it and what happened was that I met the owners and doing some research on this stuff, and it was designed by this guy called Bill Baker. And Bill Baker's really interesting. And he, for whatever reason, all the architects during World War II ended up being pilots, and I ended up in the Air Force, for whatever reason. So he learned how to fly. So after the war he had his own little practice and he also was working as a pilot for Qantas. Why not? He's going to America and Japan a lot and he gets really jazzed on west coast modernism. So in the late 1950s, for the original owners, the house, the Athertons, he designs this modernist home pretty much in that sort of California style, wall of glass at the front. It's a modest house, three bedrooms. No, originally just two bedrooms. And it's just glorious and it just fills with light. And it's been a house that's evolved from a place where I lived by myself to a place where family home without any real issues. And it's still the same size footprint that it was. And that was really important to me. I wanted to extend it. Years ago, Glenn Mercutt son, Nick Mercutt, was a fabulous architect, and I saw one of his buildings, one of these houses, and I invited him over and he just said to me, why do you want to extend it? I don't know. Because that's what you do. Because that's ingrained, that house. Got to change your house not right. Got to do something to it. And he said, we'll just work within the footprint. And then, sadly, he passed. He got sick and passed away. And so I never got to work and I didn't really do anything to the house for another 10 years, but we stayed true to that. And he put a couple of new bathrooms in, but all in. In the footprint of the house. And we are quite close to each other, but that works really well. And I suppose by Australian standards, too, you probably look at it and think, it's not particularly small, but it's not tiny, but. But most people in my neighborhood will walk around and go, gosh, you've got. This is quite a small house you live in. But because. Because you've got a wall of glass, suddenly it changes everything. And it's been. I. I just. It's changed my life actually changed my life because I went from people. It got published in a couple of mags. And then people started talking to me about my house more than other things that I was doing. And then I realized because my interest in architecture and design was pretty solitary. I didn't really know anyone else. Pre Facebook, Instagram. I didn't really, really know anyone else. Had a few friends who saw 50s and 60s things and I knew. And none of my friends really collected furniture. I just. So I just meet people at auctions or whatever. So it was really. And I'd go to open days and they'd sell. Harry Seidler's opened up his house and I'd go along to that little nerd get on it. Hi Harry. How are you?

[Host]

Yes.

[Tim Ross]

It's nice. And at the time I was. I. I remember telling someone about it at the time I think I was doing breakfast radio and I've been interviewing the most famous people in the world and didn't care. But there's Harry sidenote. I'm like oh yeah, How'd you come up with. And I just. And his wife was so beautiful. And I was like. And I was so blown away by their house. It was going to one of those houses there. Everything was the same that I'd seen in the photos from the 1960s and this was 2002 or something like that. That commitment. Amazing. Absolutely amazing. That's where the chair goes. That's where the artwork goes. And nothing changes. All they had in 50 years or something was more books. Incredible. Absolutely incredible.

[Host]

So you said with your place you started with the furniture. So why were you collecting modernist furniture? What was it about it?

[Tim Ross]

I think I started just buying retro stuff when I moved into a share house. And we'd just go to the op shops and there'd be an old lamp and was that classic 90s thing. And it was sort of. And then it just evolved and I started looking around. I'd be going into other shops and then I'd start seeing things. And some of that was nostalgia based. Like I'd buy a little sideboard because it was similar to what we had when we were kids. Some of that Australian made furniture from the 60s I started collecting that and then it branched out. Our taste tends to be more European when it comes to modernism in terms of furniture. There's less of the American stuff really has made its. Made its mark for a bunch of different reasons. Yeah. And I. And it really. I Just got obsessed about it. I don't collect so much anymore because I don't really need much more. I don't really think occasionally I'll see something, but the house is full and I don't really get it. I don't really get a say in my house anymore as I've just given up. Michelle just does everything. I feel like I'll move something and then I'll come back. What happened to the thing that I moved there? I actually know that. And I'm happy just to look at things. That's. I think it's the thing with age. Like, I don't. I used to just go, I want that chair. And I got so many bloody chairs. I don't know what to do with them. I'm selling them at the moment. But that's been a big thing. But I. I just like the. I think I've always looked at chairs as something. They're just the practical, impractical, whatever. I just love chairs. Just love looking at them. I'd have a wall of chairs if I could. I love that thing where people put them on the walls. If I didn't have. I'd like to have a furniture museum. I wouldn't want to sell them because that'd be. If I started selling furniture, I'd truly be turning into my father. But, yeah, my. My house. I'd like a house that looks like a furniture shop. I love that. I love me working with someone who's got a really great secondhand furniture store. Everything's put out well and everything's. Yeah. I could live. I could live in this. There's a few too many chairs. But I could live around this. I'd have to get divorced. But I can live there.

[Host]

I've never heard that before.

[Tim Ross]

It's funny.

[Host]

So do you and Michelle agree on everything or not?

[Tim Ross]

Strangely enough, a lot of the time we do, yeah. On all the big purchases.

[Host]

What, does she work?

[Tim Ross]

Yeah, She's a fashion designer. Okay. So she's got a. She's got a really good eye. And. Yeah, your taste changes as well. And external things drive that. I'm in a bit of a decorative vibe at the moment, which is strange for modernists. Don't look at me like that.

[Host]

That's interesting though. Isn't everyone? So what does a modernist version of decorative look like?

[Tim Ross]

I think it's. And it's just an appeal. I think I'm just looking at everything. I think it's just looking at things that I haven't really. The flourish of anything and it doesn't. It's not hugely decorative, I think just. It's just not. Just not modernist houses, I think. I don't want to describe that, but that's all. That's because of circumstance. We're seeing this lag at the moment. And five years of super glam houses, all based on people being locked in their houses, isn't really.

[Host]

I think so there was. There was that whole movement in fashion called peacocking, which was about people expressing themselves through color and pattern and flamboyance. And I think, I feel like this post Covid world is about that and the way that we live. Don't you think?

[Tim Ross]

Oh, 100%. And I think, yeah. The idea that you want to make your house into something that feel looks like a restaurant or a bar or something completely glamorous is a result of that. And the fact that people are still doing that, not knowing why they're doing it is of course the absurd thing. Because you can go out again now, kids. You don't need to make your house look like a bistro. But it also. That plus interiors for Instagram's sake, of course, that the busy it is sometimes and that's what's flying or what people are attracted to. And so anything that's a bit minimal probably isn't as fascinating for people, isn't as appealing. But then you go somewhere and you go, oh, hang on a second. This makes much more sense. There's that. That disconnect with how things look in photos and when you get into places and those sort of been in a few of those places where everything is pretty blingy and you go, ooh, it's not for me. I understand why. And I understand why people want lush things, but it's just not for me.

[Host]

Fair enough.

[Tim Ross]

So you've got two boys aged nine and 12.

[Host]

Nine and 12. And. And they were born in the house, as it were. How did them arriving change the. The way that you viewed the house?

[Tim Ross]

Once we sort of rearranged the things that could kill them, that. So there was a few. One of them was a barrier over the steps. The other one has got. My house is full of the original 1950s glass and so it's wafer thin and we still do lots of single glazed glass in Australia. Like, we have the coldest houses in the world. People from Europe come all the time and they are. This is the coldest house I've ever been to. They're like tents, really. Yeah. They just. For whatever reason. And I'm going to find out why I want to put a list for one of my next TV shows. And we don't seem to care. This is. Everything is just drafts, whatever. Because you're in denial of certain places. Like in Sydney, you're in denial that it gets cold for a while and then it's fine. You don't care.

[Host]

So how cold will it get in Sydney in the winter?

[Tim Ross]

Oh, night three, four degrees or something.

[Host]

Okay.

[Tim Ross]

Yeah, that houses, but especially mine, there's lack of insulation, 1950s glass, so we had to put a film on it so the kids couldn't run through it. And then of course there's a little balcony that's really easy for little people to get over because it's made in 1958. So once we fixed all that out. But it's been glorious, absolutely glorious. Because they were also the original owners. They won the lottery in 1963 and they put a kidney shaped pool in the front.

[Host]

They won the lottery.

[Tim Ross]

Yeah.

[Host]

That's so good.

[Tim Ross]

Yeah. So the house was never supposed to have it. But there's this really interesting story about how there's this guy in the Gold coast, how the first kidney shaped pool came to Australia was. And his name was Bernie Elsey and he created the first motels in the country. And he went because isolation, you got to go. People, all the architects from Australia went here and then they came back, they went to America and came back. And so that's the only way, that sort of the idea, you wait for textbooks or magazines or whatever, but you had to go and see things. And so he went to Florida and he took a photo with his little black and white camera of a kidney shaped pool and he came back to Queensland and he gave it to his builder and said, make me one of these. And so they went, okay, how does this work? And that's how we ended up with those things. And so many of those things were the buildings that people just copied out of magazines or books or movies. So in Sydney in the 1930s, there's all these sort of Spanish style homes because that's what they saw in Hollywood from the time, you know. So we think about that Hollywood being a more of an influence in the last 30 years, but it's probably arguably more of an influence closer to 100 years ago in terms of architecture and design, in terms of what drives people.

[Host]

What year did you buy the house?

[Tim Ross]

2003.

[Host]

2003. Okay. So Albert and I started the modern house in sort of 2004, 2005. So it was around that period and modernism was an incredibly Niche interest as you described. How would you assess people's view of it now versus then and what's happened in the interim period?

[Tim Ross]

Oh, it's, it's huge. Now. The good thing that we've seen at home is that we're seeing less houses knocked over. So there's mainstream real estate advertising for mid century modern or modernist or architect design in. Whereas 10 years ago that wouldn't have happened. There's been a bunch of different publications that have helped for that. Certainly in Australia I did a series called Streets of your town that actually did make a difference and I'll honk my own hornet, but that did talk about why those houses are important. And that danger zone where houses are 40, 50 years old, then we don't have enough things that are heritage listed. But it's just there's this sort of evolution of things really, isn't it? You see enough modernist houses and movies and TV shows, seen enough magazines, you know.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tim Ross]

Famous has got one. What you do's been huge all over the place as well. And I think the fascination's always been there, but people just hadn't really thought about it.

[Host]

I think there's also a perspective, I feel about having to be far enough away from it to be able to appreciate it. Is that sort of retro thing, isn't it?

[Tim Ross]

Yeah. What do you know, they say you need 70 years or something.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tim Ross]

For people to value it in a way that they don't want to knock things down or to see it in a historical point of view rather than a cool point of view. Do you know, when I look at Palm Springs and you know, when people were buying those houses in the 1990s, no one wanted them. Everyone was knocking them over. And there was a few select people thought, I really like these. But all of them are really tapping into a nostalgia sense, but just a different type of nostalgia. And then they live in them. And when people come into modernist homes, not always, but it has a huge influence on people. They can't quite understand it because. Well, I'll say I didn't. We had the Beastie Boys do a film clip at my house.

[Host]

Did they?

[Tim Ross]

Yeah. And I couldn't get rid of them. They came to, they came to look at the house. A friend of mine was their tour manager. Well, their local promoter, he said, oh, you had a 1950s house, haven't you? Beastie Boys want to do a film clip because they're on this 1950s thing. Oh, okay. No problems. Got a budget. Yeah. Good. And so they came around to have A look and I left him sitting on the balcony. I was like, oh, let yourself out guys, I gotta go for a run. They were just. But that's. And I'm not saying it's just a feel, it's just an understanding and. And if they were tapping into something and it's not the most extraordinary house in the world by any stress, imagination but they, they felt something and they have an existing like of it. But I was really surprised that they didn't want to leave. And I see that with people who. In my neighborhood where there's not a lot of modernist houses, it's a huge heritage area but they're much older and people are not. Wouldn't necessarily get all frothy about my place. But then they come over and they can't put their finger on it.

[Host]

That's just a feeling that it has.

[Tim Ross]

I think the scale. I think they go look around, don't get it at first and then the same thing. Can you go home now? But it's that I think scale's really important. I think the size of places we forget that we want to be close to other people. We've got this little place up in the northern rivers near Byron Bay in New South Wales and it's got. It came with a. It's a 1910, just a little weatherboard cottage, two bedroom cottage and it came with a. The people who had it before us had this island bench in the kitchen. Didn't come with the house. And Michelle goes, oh, let's find another one. And I went, oh, why don't we just put a kitchen table in? So we just got an old kitchen table and you've got to move your chair to open the oven. Sometimes it's always people in it. Like there's everyone just crowds in it. Ten people in there, everyone's having a good time. There's kids everywhere. You're bringing chairs out from everywhere. And Michelle's. We've got an extended. So you can open the oven. Oh, it ruins everything. And this friend of mine said like when I was talking about. He said that doesn't sound like a problem. That sounded like a party. Which I thought was just lovely because that's the essence of being able to. Not everything has to be perfect. What's wrong with moving a chair out of the way to once in a blue moon when you do have that many people around? I like that. That's really important to me because people want to put these butler's pantries in all this stuff. It's like, oh, need to hide everything away, make it simple, keep it simple.

[Host]

So you think that actually a lot of living spaces now are out of scale and there's an intimacy it sounds like about your house, right?

[Tim Ross]

Yeah. And I think that's what people tap into as well, that we're fed a diet of. Kids need their own bathroom. You need this bathroom, you need this size bathroom. Everyone needs two sinks, his and her sinks, all those things. And it's great if you can afford it and great if you've got the space and that's what you really want. But ultimately doesn't make your life any better. I don't know. I don't think so. Perhaps it does, I don't think. Ask me when my kids are teenagers and I might have another view on how the house is holding up and then whether I've made a terrible mistake by not extending it to make it work. But these sort of adapting the house. The dumbest thing I did was when I moved in is I got rid of the linen cupboard. Living by myself. And it's a linen cupboard. Reminds me a great story of a friend's mind who got this great house in Christchurch and young architects designed the home for the original owners. Two young guys in the straight out of university, 23, 24 and designed this beautiful 1960s classic Christchurch modernist house for the original owners. And they're looking at the plans and the. The wife says, where's the laundry? And the young architects, the male architects, didn't put one in because they'd never been in one. So it's always the same with the linen. I don't need a linen cupboard. And so I got rid of it because I had a funny bathroom in it. I put a bathroom which was all right in it and it's been. Michelle has just been angry about it. So why don't I just put a linen cupboard in one of the boys rooms? So when we renovated the time and effort and the money to basically put the linen cupboard almost back where I took it out, it's the world's most expensive linen cupboard for that reason. It's ridiculous. And it's only a small, tiny 1950s style linen cupboard. But we do have more stuff, there's no doubt about that. And that's the limitation of a 1950s because people just didn't have any stuff.

[Host]

So what's going to happen when the boys are teenagers and there's girlfriends coming home or boyfriends coming home or whatever? What's going to happen then?

[Tim Ross]

I'll lose my office again in this.

[Host]

One yeah, get a night.

[Tim Ross]

I'll lose my office downstairs. I won't deal very well with. I don't want him touching my stuff. But I don't was getting angry about kids touching my furniture. What are you doing you shipmates here, get rid of them. But I love this thing to me about furniture is that we got some chairs recovered. And the reason we got them recovered was that when this little bit at the front on all of the chairs they just wore there from when the boys were little, like really little, like toddlers. And they just dragged themselves in front of the chair so they took the fabric off. And I quite like them as the sort of. They told a history of the chair but got them recovered. And I always had this view that you recover a chair and it's not the same chair anymore because we lost that story. But I suppose I can still tell it and still remains in that way. The answer is I don't know. I hope it works. I hope their friends are nice. We just live with it. We have to live with it. I'm going to build again. I'm not going to do that.

[Host]

It'll kill me when you say again, have you built something before then?

[Tim Ross]

No, just the renovation. Yeah. It destroyed me.

[Host]

Did it?

[Tim Ross]

Yeah.

[Host]

Why did it?

[Tim Ross]

Because ultimately it's not a pleasant experience. I like working with the architects. That was great. And I like my builders. But it's just expensive and it takes too long and it's stressful. And ultimately there is also with the builders, it starts. There's a honeymoon period there and then you just want them out of your house and things go wrong and it's too stressful and building costs are so out of control. If I do it ever, I'll do anything else. I'll do it myself. I go and do a course.

[Host]

Really?

[Tim Ross]

Yeah.

[Host]

As in learn what? Electrics, plumbing, everything.

[Tim Ross]

The electrics is. That's where I draw the line on doing things. But everything else. Yeah. Why?

[Host]

Because then you're in control of it.

[Tim Ross]

Yeah, because it's so expensive. The materials label everything. So if you want to do something, I'll just go, I just do it myself. I can't yet. But there'll be a time where I just go, you know what? Just get myself a drop saw. Just go for it. It's not that I. It's not that I don't think there's great skill in it, what they do. But I'm not talking about building a full house. But if I want to do a little renovation or something like that. Have A go at it. I think there's something really important about that. Let's just have a crack at something. I think I'll go through my life without ever building a house. And it used to be something was really important to me. Now I don't care. I don't mind.

[Host]

Yeah, I feel the same, actually.

[Tim Ross]

It's like I just. Because I quite like adapting to spaces. It's like when I had to design a new kitchen and I'm there with my architect, Paul Ian, and he's a Queensland Paulo and he's a Brisbane architect. When we're having this conversation about what the kitchen's supposed to be and trying to put a new kitchen in a 1950s house. And I hadn't seen a lot of people do it really well, to be honest, because the American style just. It's not my taste. So this really get this great modernist house and they put these country kitchens in and the big bulky things. So it's quite an exercise and it took a long time. It really frustrated Michelle, but it was really worth it. You do need that. It is. I do believe that. I do believe you need the time in the planning stage of stuff. But the conversation that goes on about what do you want from a kitchen? What do you want this? Do you want this one that I like most people have spent my life adapting to every kitchen from every house that I've ever lived in. And it's not a bad. I don't mind that I like to cook and I don't actually care. And so we've got to walk a little bit further over there or it's. That doesn't work there as long as everything. Even if the one of the only one of the burners work or 2 of the bonus out of 4 work, and we've all had that in show houses or wherever in our time. You can just live with it. But when you're given that option to decide what you want. Oh, it reminds me when I used to have this champ. He was my old cocker spaniel and he used to chase birds and he'd go out to the park and they'd be like, you'd be chasing after the pigeons and then one day you grab one and he didn't. I want to do with it. It's the same feeling. It's the same feeling when you've got all the decisions of what you want. It's too overwhelming. And what happens if you live with the regret? I can build whatever I want. I'm going to build the beautiful, brutalist bunker that I've always wanted. Oh, I think I can't do. I should have done that. It's a big, It's a big statement, big commitment, whereas, yeah, just adapt to something else or hook into someone else's dream.

[Host]

I couldn't agree more. Yeah, I, I've, I. Because I've obviously assessed it myself over the years as well and I think I know myself well enough to believe that I would be frustrated by certain decisions that I've made because I do. Regret is an emotion that I do get quite a bit about things and I think you do if you're meticulous. So yeah, the way that some sort of junction was or the material that you've used or. Yeah, the size of an opening or something, it's just going to bug you.

[Tim Ross]

How do you respond when people ask you if you would, if you ever wanted to be an architect?

[Host]

Well, the answer is that I did for large periods of my life, actually. I don't know about you, but I. My father was an architect, my grandfather was an architect and there was obviously this sense that these kind of things run in families. So I did think for a while that's what I would do. But I ended up doing a degree in history and art history and then I went to work in magazines and that all felt quite natural. But then when I was in my mid-20s, I thought should have been an architect. So I got a place at architecture school at the Bartlett at UCL and I started that for a term and then at about the same time Albert and I came up with this thing called the modern house in our bedrooms and quite quickly I had the decision to make about which route to take and I'm really delighted because I have lots of friends who are architects, as I'm sure you do, and you see that it's the most incredible profession but also probably the most frustrating as well in terms of the hours that they work versus the pay, the cut and paste approach. I think of having to work in a big practice, it must be really hard and then when you work for yourself, wowzers. It's not a huge fee, is it? The percentage wise. I always think architecture is very undervalued and I think they do a lot of work for the remuneration that they get. So I feel for them. So I think it's a really hard profession and with hindsight I'm quite pleased. Like you do in a way that you can completely immerse yourself in that world but not have the frustrations of having to practice It. And I agree that the building process is horrendous a lot of the time. Did you want to be an architect?

[Tim Ross]

No, no, no, no. I think. Cause I was so driven by performance. It's like the overwhelming desire for me as a kid. And then when I could have. When I was at school, it was either you could do art, graphics or drama. And I chose drama every time. Cause that was my jam. And I think that side of my life I probably didn't think about at the time or because it was really. Performance is everything. And I don't think I'd be any good at it. Like I can. I got a decent idea of what I like in terms of things, but I'd be terrible clients that hate me. I just. I do. I had a really mixed bag. You look back, imagine having in terms of your back catalog of things and then you go, oh geez, I did that. I can hide all some bad jokes. Yeah, there's a lot of an average. It's. No, you can't. Yeah, there are some average TV work or whatever. Yeah, there is a lot on the Internet. But it's not as. It's not as bricks and mortar, is it?

[Host]

No, exactly, exactly. I see what you're saying. Picking you up on your. The performer side of you that gets a buzz about being in front of people and performing and making them laugh. I know it's a cliche, but people do say that there's often a trade off with that Comedians famously have that kind of dark side to them a lot.

[Tim Ross]

The sad clown.

[Host]

Oh no. Do you have that?

[Tim Ross]

Yeah, I suppose because it's been a long time since I did traditional stand up in a club. Hello everyone. And I liked it. But then I've become much more interested in the communication of ideas and sometimes the stories. Storytelling, whether it's humorous or not, is. Can be the sugar to help things along. When I do the TV shows. The three directors I've had over the last three projects, every one of them has asked me to do more funny in the shows because they get super earnest about architecture and design and it's pretty boring. And so that. So I go, yeah, that's good. Can you just do some. And I'm happy to do it, obviously. And I do do it, but it. It. So I don't really see myself in that way anymore. And I don't feel the. That pressure. Oh my God, I got to be funny all the time. Where was the life of the party type stuff. Thank you.

[Host]

But do you suffer from any kind of depression Anxiety?

[Tim Ross]

Yeah, of course.

[Host]

Why of course?

[Tim Ross]

Oh, doesn't everyone have some sort of moments of self doubt, sadness? Yeah. Concerns about all sorts of things. What's happening next? The. I picked show business as a career, which is perilous at the best of times. And then you go, oh, how long can I do this for? How long does this. The clock's ticking on. How long do people want to listen to people who are getting older? That's huge thing. You hope that there are people. There's enough old people. How do you stay relevant? I'm not concerned about AI taking my job at the moment. I did hear my voice in AI. That was a curious thing. Like someone had done a project. I was working with some students, university students. One of them made this film and I'm like, God, someone's done a really bad impersonation of me. And he goes, oh, no, that's another. I did an AI version of you on a real. And it did it really quite quickly and it was. That was peculiar, really peculiar to see all that stuff happening. But I think there's exciting things about that. You can't run away from it, you just got to enjoy it. But I'd like to think that I can do my biggest concern. I'd like to be able to just do what I do for as long as I can. That's all I really care about. Tell good stories, meet interesting people, go into some great buildings. That. That's really. I'd hate that to be turned off in some way. And it's hard to control that. It's not like if you have a business where you're waiting for the phone ring. I've got to constantly keep writing, keep developing things. And then some stage, you go to a television network and they go, I know we're not going to do this anymore. You're too old. The last one didn't do so well. We're going to go with someone younger or all those things that come into play. So that's. But ultimately there's other ways you can communicate with people. So it doesn't sort the be all and end all.

[Host]

Don't worry about getting older.

[Tim Ross]

Not so much. I'd still like to be able to run like that would be watched. My mum's husband, he's English and he's maybe 95. And we found this old Super 8 footage of him on a horse when he was in his 30s. And it's majestic to watch.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tim Ross]

And he just looks at it and he just wants to do stuff like even. Even when he was 90. Get up a ladder with a chainsaw and he's got a walking stick. And I go, dude, what are you doing, Michael? I love that passion because we'll all be the same. Because when you look at your parents or elderly friends who say, try and do stuff, what are you doing? You're too old for that. But we'll, we will be the same. I was at the bank the other day and I had to fill out a form and I was like, there's people in the bank. There's no one in a bank anymore. No one goes into a bank. So I go to the bank and there's people everywhere. It's 9:30. What I said to the woman said, what's the story? Why are all these people in the bank? And they go, we're a bank. And I went, okay. And she said, what do you know? I need a form filled out. And I think she just thought I was 100 and needed help. And she sort of let me jump the queue. And then she said, have you got the app for the bank? I know. And she said, do you want me to help you download it? I was like, no, I know how to download it up. I just don't want it. That was the first time I went, oh, this 22 year old thinks that I'm an old guy and needs help. And to be fair, I was an old guy and needs help. But that stuff's frightening. I reckon you go to a restaurant and you're in your 50s and the young kids in their 20s and they see right through you. But that's why you go, you know, you gotta wear better clothes, make sure you got good hair product. And the one take home, there's always one take home from a podcast. And despite all these little things of wisdom that I'll drop that. You hope that people remember. Any gentleman over the age of 40 who's not wearing tinted moisturizer is insane. Do you wear it?

[Host]

No.

[Tim Ross]

You should.

[Host]

I'm clearly insane. Is that right?

[Tim Ross]

Yeah.

[Host]

Good tip.

[Tim Ross]

Yeah.

[Host]

So it just gives you a little.

[Tim Ross]

Just a little glow. Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

Any particular product you recommend?

[Tim Ross]

I can't remember what it's called. I use my wives. But it's. It's life changing. People go hug guys. Why? Your skin looks so good. Okay. I've just, it's been out in the sun. I'm just wearing makeup. I'm wearing it now. Can you tell?

[Host]

You do look well.

[Tim Ross]

See? Thank you. See, this is it. That's the. If. If it rains in the toilet. Didn't moisturize it. Go, you go, oh, who's that person? Who's that old guy?

[Host]

See opposite me, there's a man melting.

[Tim Ross]

Go ahead. Isn't that terrible? The one tinted moisturizer. It's a good tip though.

[Host]

It's a good tip.

[Tim Ross]

Yeah.

[Host]

So it's a good anti aging tip. Okay. So in terms of the future of home, though, how would you ideally like to live into your older age, do you reckon?

[Tim Ross]

I think it's so fascinating, such a fascinating question, because I think it's defined by the fact that you don't really know that answer until you're there. And my mother was good, she worked it out. She bought a block of land close to her church, close to where her doctor was, close to the shops, like 20 years before she needed to. And that's amazing. Like, I could never do that because I can't telegraph where my head's going to be at because I think, oh, part of me says I want to be that cliched person who's in their 70s who lives in the inner city and wants to go to the theater all the time and wants to be amongst the action, but then writes letters to the council because you're really angry about the noise. And that is how I always thought it. But now I know, I'm pretty sure that I want space, I want nature. That's the defining thing for me because as I get older, like, working physically is more interesting for me. Like, I love this place we got up north and like, I fix things, I dig things, I do landscaping, I'm planting trees, all that stuff. Someone who's never really worked with their hands or worked physically is while I still can, is really important to me. And just being connected to the landscape, being connected to country. And I suppose what really is an interesting exercise for me is becoming much more aware of the land on which I've lived my life. But there's another, you know, white Australians have ignored first nations culture in our country quite a lot. And we've not let the stories, the first nations people become enough of our culture. And so there's a huge shift going on there. And I've always had this love of the Australian landscape, but I haven't had the right understanding of that. And I thought I did, but I'd never really quite got my head around it. So that's a really interesting part of my life. And life's hectic, so, you know, fresh air. I just want to plant. What's that plant? Will that bring birds? Yeah, I want bird I'm just like, I want parrots in the backyard. I want all that stuff. And it sounds sort of. You're 100 on that. But it's how we're supposed to live, I think. And I like cities and there'll always be places I want to visit and be part of, but they're easier to. They're easier to dip into and enjoy, I think, than the other way around, I think. But I spend another 10 years and I go, God, I don't want to worry about shit. And I just want an apartment where I can just walk out the door and go and get some culture, meet some friends for brunch, go to the galleries, catch another show, give another lecture, reminisce about the olden days and your place in the.

[Host]

In the wilderness, then in the countryside. Where do you see that? Being in Australia for sure. Yeah.

[Tim Ross]

Oh, no, I mean, I know. I mean, I. Yes, but I'd love not to live at some stage.

[Host]

Would you like?

[Tim Ross]

Oh, it's just, it's. It's a big place, but it's a small place and I just start again somewhere. I'd love to live here, love to work here. Just there's more opportunities, there's just more things going. It just, it's more exciting and not that wildlife, it's just. And I think that's a real reaction to being away, not being here for a while, just to come and just go, wow, just. It's exciting not knowing what's around that street, what's that building. I live in a city where I could pretty much. In Sydney, I could not be surprised by anything after being there 20 years and walking around and looking at everything. So I think that's just a different. Living a different life. But that's the same thing. I always think, oh, when I'm 60, I'd like to be living overseas doing what I do. But when I'm 60, I might just want to be doing the cryptic cross work, which I've never done in my life before, but maybe I'm on. That's what I want to do. Punch out some books that no one wants to buy. Breed some dogs. I don't know. Do you know? Do you think about it?

[Host]

Breed some dogs, I don't know.

[Tim Ross]

Who knows? Tamp my old cocker spaniel. I bought him off this woman deep in the western suburbs of Sydney. She was a well regarded breeder and the dog was a good dog, but she hadn't. She. I remember saying to her, oh, she lived 40 minutes from the city. She hadn't been there for 20 years. Wouldn't mind going into the city one of those days. I don't want to be that at 60.

[Host]

I was gonna say, you might be.

[Tim Ross]

Yeah. You don't know.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tim Ross]

And that's what I think's fascinating about it. And that's why this idea of circling back to this. Would you build something built for purpose for retirement? I think such a folly because your life could things change in two seconds. Or you think, actually, I don't want this. This is the dumbest thing I've ever done. No, my kids don't want to come here. My wife doesn't like it, or your wife likes it or whatever. Your partner doesn't like it, or you just hate the neighbors. That's the worst one. Imagine that you spend all your money on this place and then the people next door. Something about it, or. Oh, God. I think as well, shoot me now.

[Host]

Yeah. A home to me is about human relationships. And I met a couple quite recently who built themselves a passive house. And they've got together later in life. I think they're probably in their 70s. And this house, I can see is a monument to their love. And that's a really special thing, I think. How do you see yourself living in terms of the people around you into older age and what kind of community would you like to have around you?

[Tim Ross]

You know, there's this idea where you can have a share house with like your friends. Everyone says, oh, let's buy like a compound and we can all have a house there and all retire and stuff. So that. That's just my idea of torture. I think I'd probably be happy to be quite solitary and then just get in the car and drive down to wherever it is and you can have a conversation with someone. And that can be my day. I talk to the person making my coffee or I don't think I need that much, but then again, I don't know. And I think when my kids disappear, filling that hole, I think is going to be tricky. I think that's going to affect me far more deeply than I think I'm ready to give it credit for. But the sense of the home and what it looks like, you see the ease. People who've lived in really great houses and then they just downsize and get some rubbish. How do you do that? Because it doesn't matter anymore. I did quite a bit of work and featured in one of my TV shows a guy called John Andrews. He's a really great Australian architect and he designed all These great buildings in North America, including the CN Tower. And he, like, he's the first in his family to go to university and he goes to Harvard and then he ends up designing the Harvard School of Architecture. It's extraordinary from this bloke from Sydney. And then he had a couple of great houses and then he moved in downsize to a really peculiar type townhouse. All these lovely stuff in it. But he didn't care. Didn't really care. And I get that because it's easy to get around and it's the right scale and all that stuff. It's not if you've got the things that are important to you. And every time my mum moved, it was a new house, was her house because she was there and all the things were there. That's all that really matters. Because I'll always get asked about favorite houses and why design's important. And it all falls away when I visited really funny, badly renovated houses by Italian immigrants where they took a lovely 1900 Federation home and really ruined it by any historical. You know what people claim in terms of good taste. But you go around to the house and lemon trees, orange trees, there's basil everywhere and the smell of biscotti and coffee. And they're beautiful. And the house is full of love and life. And it blows the argument for all of us because it really trumps any sense of what the design's supposedly supposed to help with. Because you forget all those things. You don't. You're suddenly not looking around that they've tiled everything and concreted everything and there's no lawn. And because this is. It feels like a life well lived. And I think that's. If there is something that I love about people's houses. My favorite homes always speak of that, that there's things from their families, there's things from their travels, there's things that reflect their personalities. There's not like a wall of football trophies on the wall. It's not. That's part of people's lives, but it's just there's a sense of it. Like my friend Mary Featherstone in Melbourne. She's a great designer. Her husband was a really fabulous designer as well. And she lives in a house with an opaque roof designed in the 1960s and her son redesigned it for her recently because she's in her 80s and we're going through her drawers. She's just showing me where she's got everything, where she collects everything, and she's in her. Like she's got her clothes there and then she opens up a drawer and it's full of seashells, snake skins, nuts, pieces of timber, birdshell legs, all these bird's nests, the whole lot. And that's the drawer where most of us keep our little like shitty old mobile phone covers and old passports and all that stuff. But there's this beautiful draw of things from nature and to me that's what makes a house beautiful. That is her story there. And that's. I'd like to think amongst everything that whatever that space looked like if you came along for a cup of tea and for dinner, that you would gain something from my house. That you would walk away going, he's had an interesting life, looking at a bookshelf for piece of furniture. And there's a story that goes with all that. And I feel I would walk away feeling richer from the experience. And I think that would be probably the thing ultimately that I would like from the final place that I live.

[Host]

So, final question. Having walked us through the past, present and future of how you live, how would you. And it's the biggest question of all, really. How would you summarize why home is an important place and why is it important in your own life?

[Tim Ross]

It becomes two things, this sort of duality of solitude, family. And I love the house when it's full. Friends, family, my kids running around, just the sound of it. They can be outside and I cannot be talking to them and I can work and I work with a comfort that I wouldn't necessarily have when I'm on my own. There's something about that, just that buzz around. There's a sound that reminds me of my youth, when in winter I'd be in bed. And every time I hear it in any house, it has. Where the heater clicks on first thing in the morning. Reminds me of when I was a kid. My mum would get up first and put the heater on. There's a real comfort to that sound. That's that, that, that ease of things. It's that weirdness that I could be in a house with my, you know, grandmother who was 92 and feel safe even though she couldn't protect me. It's the weirdest thing. If I was there by myself, I go, oh, I might feel freak out about, but, oh, there's a 92 year old here. But somehow I feel more safe. So bizarre. So the, the home as those human relations that you need. The warmth, the sense of history. The place where you'll sit around a table and you can eat and drink and you can reminisce and you can tell stories and where memories are made. And then there's the other side of the house where when I'm there by myself and the chaos is gone, when the kids have gone off to school, Michelle's left and it's just me. And I can sit there, particularly in autumn and the sort of. I just warm myself in the sun like a cat. And it's just magical. And that's really the time for me where that architect in 1956 or 1957 made some decisions about how that house is going to be, where it's orientated. The fact that it can still fill me with joy all these years later is extraordinary. What a gift. I wasn't thinking about that then. It's a client but. And I. And the. The house smiles at me. It. And. And it lifts my spirit in the way that there's something that modernism does in that way and it propels you forward and that's what it is for me. And I think one of the things I really like about architecture is its role in life. To sometimes rattle ahead of us, to leap ahead. And sometimes we're waiting, it waits for us to catch up and it reminds us of our potential. It reminds us. Us to be. I think it reminds us that we can be more progressive and you can really sometimes only feel that when you're on your own. And that for me is. That's where I go. This home is so beautiful. I'm basking in the sun and I'm a battle weary years I've got a rest from all the noise Even though I love it and I. I just. It's just me in the house having a cup of tea, pretending to do some work.

[Host]

Well, thank you for pretending to do some work.

[Tim Ross]

Oh, it's a pleasure this morning. It's great. Thank you.

[Host]

Thanks for coming all this way.

[Tim Ross]

Oh yeah.

[Host]

17 hour flight.

[Tim Ross]

I just flew. I'm just gonna fly back now. Yeah, Unless we push record, didn't we? It was a bad time to folk out. Oh.

[Host]

Thank you very much to Tim and thank you to all of you for being here. As always, it's really much appreciated. We will hopefully post up some pics of some of the houses we talked about today on our website. I'm hoping we can get some images of Tim's own house because it's a really, really good one. So do look out for that on themodernhouse.com as always, a plea as I always have to do to please do follow the show if you don't already and you're enjoying listening along. It makes a massive difference to us. And of course, if you can find the time for a quick rating or review, that's amazing too. This episode was produced by Hannah Phillips and edited by Oscar Crawford with music by Father. Thanks so much again and see you next time. Bye for.