EP 115: Francis Chan: You Were Made to Enjoy God (Not Perform)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "In Totality with Megan Ashley" EP 115

Guest: Francis Chan

Episode Theme: “You Were Made to Enjoy God (Not Perform)”

Date: May 12, 2026

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode of In Totality centers on the transformational message from Francis Chan’s book “Beloved”: That believers are created not primarily to perform for God or earn His approval, but to enjoy and abide in His love. Megan Ashley leads an honest, vulnerable conversation with Francis, reflecting on how understanding God’s overwhelming love reshapes our identity, purpose, and daily walk with Jesus. Together, they explore the dangers of striving, cultural dynamics in church and family, the elusive experience of feeling loved by God, and practical ways for listeners to rest in and respond to divine love.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Moving from Performance to Enjoyment of God

• Megan’s Reflection (03:26–04:59): Shares a quote from the book:

  “I considered it my purpose in life to be useful, not to be loved. But over time, I learned that you can live a seamlessly useful life that is void of the very thing you were created for—the enjoyment of God.”
  This idea deeply impacted her view of faith and sparked the entire conversation.

• Francis’s Response (04:59–06:05):

  “I can’t believe how many of us miss it… this is why He made us… wants me. Like, this is the most amazing truth—our God, Megan. Like the one who made us, this was the reason.”
  He notes that many factors (church culture, personal history, the enemy) pull believers away from simple joy and love.

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2. The Role of Family and Upbringing in Receiving God’s Love

• Francis’s Personal Story (07:43–10:17):
  Lost multiple parental figures, grew up with a lack of overt affection—yet never felt like a victim. The enemy tried to use those losses to create insecurity, but true security came only with knowing God deeply.

• Writing “Beloved” With His Daughter (Mercy) (08:51–10:17):
  Despite Mercy’s loving upbringing, she struggled to believe God’s love just as much as he once did.

  “Even upbringings are completely different, it still takes a miracle for me to believe that God loves me.”

• Universal Application (12:38–13:55):
  Megan and Francis agree: Whether or not you had a loving family, the struggle to truly trust God’s love is common and isn’t solved by circumstances.

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3. Striving, Serving, and the Prodigal Mentality

• Megan’s Confession (11:45–12:38):
  After trauma and loss, she felt indebted to God, wanting to “serve, serve, serve,” but struggled to embrace the identity of being a beloved daughter, not just a servant.

• Francis’s Pastoral Reflection (13:55–14:12):
  Admits that earlier in his ministry (and in books like “Crazy Love”), he focused on performance and striving over abiding in love. Wishes that “Beloved” had been his first book.

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4. Journey Toward Experiencing God’s Love

• Transformation Over Time (14:45–17:31):
  Francis shares that his grasp of God’s love grew slowly—moving from self-examination and striving (“Do I love Him enough?”) to security in Christ’s love as the foundation.

• Ministry and Intimacy (17:31–19:11):
  Describes moments where he’s experienced deep, almost tangible fellowship with God, especially in prayer/blessing others:

  “I felt like I’m holding hands with the Lord in unison, blessing these people together. That’s not the way I thought before.”

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5. Addressing the Culture of Striving and Seriousness

• Francis’s Encouragement (20:16–21:48):
  Focus should shift from impact or outcomes to simply enjoying God in the moment, trusting that His Spirit will lead:

  “There’s no pressure on me… to just enjoy this moment… God on His throne is looking at you and He's looking at me going, look at my son, look at my daughter. I love them so much.”

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6. The Importance of Biblical Literacy in Knowing God’s Love

• Word & Spirit as the Source of Assurance (28:14–32:30):
  Francis prioritizes Scripture as the way to anchor and experience God’s love. Shares that his church reads through the entire Bible each year (sometimes monthly) to “drown out the other voices and just hear from the Word.”

• Quote (30:52):

  “99-point-something percent of everything I received from the Lord… it’s from this book. There have been a handful… where I thought maybe God said something to me that wasn't just right out of this book.”

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7. Dangers of Distraction—Mystery & Spiritual Chasing

• On Church Sub-Cultures (33:35–37:46):
  Francis describes two contrasting ministry worlds:

  • Conservative “Word-only” camps can lose sight of God's love in favor of technical knowledge.
  • Charismatic “miracle-seeking” cultures may sideline love for spiritual experiences.
    Both risk missing the core:

  “To somehow lose the love of God and not make that primary…”

• Centrality of Paul’s Prayers (Ephesians 3):
  The apostolic prayer for believers was for a revelation of the love of Christ, not just knowledge or manifestations.

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8. Navigating Seasons of Suffering

• On Grief (42:50–47:25):
  Megan shares recent loss and how “Beloved” and its message of God’s love reframed her grief.
  Francis points to testimonies like Joni Eareckson Tada and the “cloud of witnesses” from Hebrews 11, reminding listeners that thriving amid suffering is within reach for all believers.

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9. Waiting and the Experience of God’s Love

• Different Journeys (38:47–41:43):
  Francis recounts two stories:
  • His friend Ken, who sought assurance of God’s love for years before a breakthrough.
  • His own gradual, less dramatic journey out of “performance mode,” where the enemy still tries to drag him back:

    “I still get back into performance mode… It’s like this process that I have to go, ‘No, that’s a lie. I gotta kick it out of my head…’”

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10. Practical Abiding in God’s Love

• Daily Practice (48:04–48:59, 50:31):
  Francis repeatedly calls for “stopping to remember” that God’s gaze is upon us in love—pausing to receive rather than simply doing.

  “When you said that word abide, it triggered something in me where I’m like, ‘Oh, I stopped again… I’m in His love…’”

• Role of Community (50:31):

  “That’s what the church is supposed to be… Spirit-filled people help us to abide in the love of God.”

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11. On Christian Content Creation & Words

• On Speaking Less (52:25–58:59):
  Francis warns about the dangers of excessive words in today's podcast/social media world:

  “With the abundance of words, sin is not absent... People just say, ‘Oh, I talk a lot.’ I go, ‘Well, you sin a lot.’” (58:28)

  “Is this really gonna build people up? Am I carelessly slandering someone? Am I carelessly taking people into thinking about me rather than God?”

• His Mentor’s Example (57:09):

  “No one’s had as big of an impact spiritually on me… and yet maybe an hour’s worth of words in 25 years.”

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12. Journal Prompt (Listener Application)

• Francis’s Prompt (61:47):
  Encourages radical honesty with God, suggesting listeners journal what’s truly on their hearts instead of sanitized prayers:

  “God, you already know this, but I want a child more than I want You… I want a relationship more than I want you, and I know this is wrong. Please fix this… Or just write out as honest as you can be. No one else is listening—this is you and the Lord who knows everything.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Francis Chan, on the futility of striving:

  “I wish I was more secure in my walk with the Lord and His love then. Doing all this stuff isn’t out of insecurity. It’s just pure… fellowship.” (17:31)

• On the power of silence and presence:

  "Most of the times when I'm praying, it's just—I'm just looking at God and He's looking at me, and we're not even saying a whole lot. Wow, that's beautiful." (52:25)

• Pastoral warning:

  “The more you talk, the more you’re gonna sin.” (58:28)

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Key Timestamps

• 04:59–06:05 — Francis on God’s purpose & love.
• 07:43–10:17 — Childhood, family, and belief.
• 14:45–17:31 — The journey from performance to intimacy.
• 20:16–21:48 — Enjoying God v. seeking outcomes.
• 28:14–32:30 — Importance of the Word; daily Bible reading.
• 33:35–37:46 — Church cultures & missing the love of God.
• 42:50–47:25 — Suffering, grief, and finding God’s love.
• 52:25–58:59 — Speaking less, prayer, and impact.
• 61:47–64:32 — Journal prompt: radical honesty before God.

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Final Words & Action Steps

• Pause and rest in the truth of God’s love—move from striving to abiding.
• Immerse yourself in Scripture—it’s the foundation for knowing God.
• Practice honest, unfiltered communication with God.
• In community, make it your aim to help others abide in love, not just perform.
• For content creators, “talk less”—let your words be few, prayerful, and build up the body.

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Journal Prompt

"Be radically honest with God about what you desire most—write it out as a prayer, asking Him to help your heart want Him above all." (61:47–64:32)

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This episode is an uplifting, humbling call back to God’s heart: You were made to be loved by Him—and to rest, abide, and enjoy, not just perform.

Transcript

[Francis Chan]

I just got up there and I was just like, oh, my God, thank you, thank you.

[Torah Couture]

And then I heard, someone, anyone, please help.

[Francis Chan]

He's like Superman being able to carry me off the mountain.

[Torah Couture]

The award winning Tell Me what happened podcast from OnStar is back. New emergencies, new heroes. Find out what happens in season six of Tell Me what Happened out now.

[Megan Ashley]

What's up, family? Before we jump into today's episode, I want to share something close to my heart. Our In Totality Patreon community, the Village. If you ever listen to the podcast and you thought, wow, I really wish there was more. This is exactly why I created this space. You'll receive early access to every episode, so while others are hearing it for the first time, you'll already be watching it and soaking it in. But it's not just that. You'll also get access to the In Totality Docuser, which is like my vlog, which shows what I do when I'm

not on the podcast.

And that's not it. You'll also be the first to know about merch drops, events and opportunities to

connect in real life.

One of my favorite parts is our Bible study and book clubs where we're walking through scripture together and encouraging one another in the faith. On Patreon, we are building a community that truly desires a relationship with the Lord, pursues truth, and supports one another. And I would love for you to

be a part of that.

So if you want more, come join the village on Patreon. The link is in the description and I can't wait to see you there.

I am so thrilled and privileged. Please welcome my very special guest, Francis Chan.

[Francis Chan]

Thanks me.

[Megan Ashley]

Thank you for this book. Just chapter one wrecked me.

[Francis Chan]

I can't believe how many of us miss it. This is why he made us. This is the most amazing truth, like our God, Megan. Yeah, I want to drown out the other voices too, and just hear from the word. The enemy. Still my head. I still get back into performance mode. Bible says the more you talk, the more you're going to sin. So people just say, oh, I talk a lot. I go, well, you sin a lot.

[Megan Ashley]

You talk a lot about abiding in God's love. I'm curious on what that practically looks like. On a regular Tuesday.

[Francis Chan]

The moment you said that word abide, it triggered something in me where I'm like, oh, I'm in His love. These voices of other people, you know, saying things or whatever, those words that they don't mean anything compared to Jesus.

[Megan Ashley]

What's up, you guys?

Welcome back to another episode of In Totality. I am your host, Megan Ashley. And listen, I'm going to get right to it. I'm not even going to do a long introduction. I am so just thrilled and privileged that my guest today has decided to join me. We're doing a virtual he's all the Way on the west coast, but he decided to join us today. So please welcome my very special guest, Frances Chan. Hi, sir.

[Francis Chan]

Thanks, Miggy. Yeah. Good to be with you.

[Megan Ashley]

I'm so excited and just really honored that you are taking the time to join me on this podcast. I have been begging to have a conversation with you because I am taking my Bible study group through your book Beloved. And I have all the questions, all the things to ask you. Like, this book is what I tell you. If I'm just being honest, I'm just going to jump right in. I'm so happy you're here. I'm just going to jump right in. I was stuck on chapter one. Just chapter one. For. I mean, wrecked me. Wrecked me. So much so that I called my friend. She's not a believer, but she grew up in the church. And like, we grew up in the same church. And I called her and I read. I think I have it marked in here. This is, this is what I read to her. I considered it my purpose in life to be useful, not to be loved. But over time, I learned that you can, can live a seamlessly useful life that is void of the very thing you were created for the enjoyment of God. Francis. I was stuck there for a while, and we can get into all the things, but I'm just. I just want to first start off and say thank you for this book. And I. And I know the Lord gave you this book, but thank you for being obedient and writing this book.

[Francis Chan]

I am so glad you got stuck there. I really am. I, I. Because it's. I can't believe how many of us miss it. Like. Like, this is why he made us. He didn't.

[Megan Ashley]

Wow.

[Francis Chan]

Wants me. Like, this is the most amazing truth. Like our God, Megan. Like the one who made us. This was the reason.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

It's like I want know you are. I want to be with you. I want you to know that I adore you and I want one with you. That's why I made you in my image. And I don't know how we get distract. I mean, I do know it's the enemy, the world. It's the flesh. It's churches emphasizing the wrong thing.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

Past myself who didn't get It, So then we go off on all these other things, and it just kind of takes people away from just enjoyment. Like we should be the people in the world where love God.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. Yeah. This. I, I want to get into all the things because I have. I mean, Francis, I wish you could see. I don't know if you can see my book, but it's marked up. I mean, it's marked, it's bent, it's marked up, it's highlighted, it's pages are bent. Like, this book, no lie has changed my intimacy and my relationship with the Lord and how I relate to him. Like, it's, it's changed a lot of things in me, and I want to get into all those things, but I know people know who you are. I think when I think of Francis Chan, obviously I think about crazy love. And that book, I think, changed so many people's lives, and it's such a staple for a lot of Christians and. But what I was so interested about when it comes to you is your childhood. I'm really interested in how you grew up. And I, and I'm interested in how the way that you grew up, how that translates into you writing this book, Beloved. Did any part of that, of your childhood with the way that you had a relationship with your father. Your mother, she passed away during childbirth, and then your stepmother, and then, like, you had a lot of loss at a young age. And the way you describe your relationship with your father of not being loved and just not having, like, a loving relationship.

[Francis Chan]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

How much of that helps you write Beloved? Or was it related to that at all?

[Francis Chan]

You know, it's interesting because, you know, I grew up in a time and maybe even in a culture where we didn't think too deeply about what happened to us. Like, so your mom died, and so your dad didn't want you, and so your stepmom died and your dad died and you move on. Like, like, literally. My dad died when I was 12, and I was at school the next day.

[Megan Ashley]

Wow.

[Francis Chan]

You just move on and, But I, I think the enemy uses everything to attack you or get you to doubt God's promises or his commands. And I, I, I don't know how much of that affected why I wrote the book, because I've never felt like this victim, like, oh, yeah, this horrible Rainier life, or I've just been as I've gotten to know the Lord, especially after my college years, I, I, this joy came over me. Didn't feel like I missed out on anything.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

But then it grew and learned More about his love. I'm going, wow, I really did miss out now. What was special about the book, too, was I wrote it with my daughter, Mercy, and we're from, like, polar opposite back once where, oh, I just adore this girl. I adore, you know, from the time she was one. I mean, it's just, you know, I don't like the baby stage. But once, you know, it's like, I have adored her and her. I love her, her husband, her grandkids. I'm still crazy about her. Like, she lives next door to me. I can't get enough of her. And so she's writing this alongside of me and going, dad, it's not. It's. It's. It's not just assumed that I trust God's love for me because I trust your love for me. Like, it's. Even upbringings are completely different. It still takes a miracle for me to believe that God loves me. And that was really cool to hear. It's like, oh, so this isn't just because I had a crazy upbringing. Yeah, she had a great upbringing from my perspective. And from her, she would say it was great. It's just. It's the enemy.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

He comes to us and tries to rob God of his reward.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. And I love that you pointed that out in the book. I felt like that was really comforting. When you talked about how your daughter did not grow up in the way that you grew up, where you didn't have, like, this, you know, loving father relationship, but your daughter did. But it also doesn't matter what your background is, like, whether you had a great relationship and a loving relationship with your parents or you didn't have one. Like, the love of God is still available for you. And I just feel like, for me, my personal experience is I didn't have, like, a consistent father in my life. And I think that that has played a role. Like, I don't think I grew up in church seeing God as father. Do you know what I mean? I saw him as judge. I saw him as holy. Like, I saw. But I never saw him as father. And I. And I. A little bit about, like, my background, like, I gave the Lord a serious. A serious. Like, I grew up in church, but I gave him a serious. Yes, where, like, I fully surrendered and gave my life to him completely and totally in 2023, after I went through divorce and after I went through a really traumatic friendship breakup in my life, which just got turned upside down, and I had nothing left but to cry out to the Lord and ask him to. To help me. Right. That was literally all. I. I didn't have any fancy words or sanitized prayers. I just had help. Like, I just. And I. And I felt him respond to me and love me and. And. And. And from that moment on, I felt so indebted to the Lord, where I was just like, I'm the prodigal son that just wants to return home and be the servant. Right. I just want to serve, serve, serve. I want to pay you back for being so kind to me and being so loving to me that I just want to serve. And I'm great at serving, but I'm not great at being a daughter. And that has always been hard for me. And it wasn't until I started reading your book that I felt like I started to position myself and know my identity as a daughter.

[Francis Chan]

Wow. That is so big. That's huge.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

Because, you know, you feel about your boys.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

And I know how I feel about my kids. And. And if any of them doubted my love for them or didn't enjoy being my child and enjoy being loved or feel secure, it'd be heartbreaking. And I do what I. Whatever I can to make them know that they're loved and enjoy. So it's so. It's so sad to me. And yet I'm not. I'm not judging anyone for, like, your upbringing or your church experience, because we don't know what we don't know. And so, Pastor, I'm sure I didn't make the people in my congregation feel like they were just deeply loved by the father, that I. I didn't emphasize that like I should have because I didn't get it. And, you know, it doesn't mean I was a bad guy or a bad pastor. Just, again, these are things the Lord has to reveal to you.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

And so many times I. I wish God had told me sooner or I knew about it earlier, but it is what it is, and I just praise God that He just keeps awakening me to his love. And.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, I want to ask you, and you can maybe give some context and take us down the journey, because you said in the book that you wish you would have wrote Beloved before you wrote Crazy Love. And so I'm interested in how, like, what, the transition of, what, almost 17 years between crazy love and beloved, what were those 17 years of experiencing God's love that transformed into this book?

[Francis Chan]

Yeah. When I look back, there were definitely moments where I felt loved by God and knew that he loved me. I guess it was like, it's it's like, in my sanctification, I think, and this is my personal journey. It's. It's different for different people. So different. I. I meet people who say, no. The time I fell in love with Jesus, I knew that he loved me. And I've never looked back. And, wow, that's. That's awesome. That. Don't let me get you to question that. You know, don't. Don't let me throw you off, because that's a gift from the Lord. And praise God for that. My story was different. It's. It's. I think when I came to the Lord, I believed that he loved me. And. But then I just immediately got into, do I love him?

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

And questioning myself. It's like, wow, why am I lusting like this if I love him? Why am I not sharing the gospel if I love him? Why still have to fight through all these? And why is there pride in my life if I. You know, So I kept trying to think, like, do I? Have I given everything up? Because I just want to love him? And so much of church was, you know, talking about sin, which is right. Like, hey, don't do this, don't do this. And. And so I focused on just getting right and pleasing him. I didn't think about the relationship. I'm just a. And that's kind of my default. I want to accomplish things. I wanted to college. I want to get through seminary. I want to do this. This is. I'm always about finishing tasks. And, you know, the more you look at scripture, you realize, yes, God has work for us to do, but he really wants us to know him. And the relationship was secondary. Yeah, Was first. And I think that's the way I was in life. And so with crazy love, it was very much like, hey, we gotta do this. Do something with your life. Don't waste your life. And I still believe that. But the relationship side, it was just. It was the 20%. Uh, the 80% was, get this stuff done.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

And now I'm back and going, gosh, I wish I was more secure in my walk with the Lord and his love then. Doing all this stuff isn't out of insecurity. It's just pure. It's pure fellowship. I mean, Sunday night I was speaking at this church, and when I began praying for them, I. Megan, I. It was like this amazing experience where I just really felt like I was somewhere in between heaven and earth. Like, was just in sweet fellowship with God as I'm praying for these people. And I just didn't Want to leave.

[Megan Ashley]

Wow.

[Francis Chan]

I want to, I want to get back to that. See, that's, that's what I think is what the work, if you want to call it should feel like is. Is just this sweet, intimate God and I together. You know, I'm, I'm praying a blessing over these people, but I, I felt like I'm holding hands with the Lord as an unison, just blessing these people together. That's not the way I thought before. Yeah, did his thing. He loved me. Now it's my turn to prove my love for him. Wasn't this enjoyment of him even in the work?

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. I think what I've experience in reading your book is I've identified how much for me I have been. I gotta love the Lord. I gotta love the Lord. I gotta love the Lord. I gotta love the Lord. I just want to love him. I just want to love Him. And, and I've fo. And in it, it almost has produced like a pride because I'm so self centered, you know what I mean? And I don't think that we shouldn't care about loving the Lord. I think we should care about that. But I have not, I have not set my gaze on the fact that he loves me. I haven't even thought about it. Like, I just have thought about like,

yeah, you love me.

You.

You sent your son and I just

want to love you back. I just want to love you back. I just want to love you back. How do you encourage. Because I do think that we live in a generation, in a time and a culture of striving and so how do we, how do we have this enjoyment?

Because I guess I'm curious on like,

what does serious Christianity look like to you in, in step with enjoying your relationship with the Lord?

[Francis Chan]

Yeah, I would say, like, even right now, Megan, like we're doing this podcast and you know, it's very easy to have a goal for me to say something profound that is going to impact people's life and of course, like, why else do this? But we can completely lose sight of the promises of God right now. There's no pressure on me. The Holy Spirit promises that, you know, at that moment he'll give me words to say and, and to just enjoy this moment, to picture God right now. Like right now, just forget the camera, forget anything else. Just think about the spiritual world. Like, God on his throne is looking at you and he's looking at me going, look at my son, look at my daughter. I love them so much. And they're just having fellowship in the Spirit talking about me and how great I am and how I've brought them to this point where they know my love. And it's, there's something about us really believing it and enjoying it.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

That minister to people and that's what we can lose sight of.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

That once we, I was talking to some, some people that were about to plant churches, and I said, how often when you hear a pastor pray from a stage, does it feel like he's really talking to someone? You go, oh, he's. I just said, last week, a guy said to me, he goes, man, I opened my eyes when you were praying the blessing over us. You know, I was just praying the Aaronic Blessing, the numbers 6. And he said, you had this smile. And I, you know, I don't even notice, you know, But I, I, I thought back, I go, yes, because I'm thinking, wow, well, Lord bless you and have. Lord keep you and make his face, like, can I really pray this? Like, God's face. Face is shining. God's face is shining on me. And he's lifting up his countenance upon me, and he's being gracious and giving me peace. Like, this is outrageous.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

And to believe that right now that God is lifting up his countenance upon you.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

And giving you peace. That's. That, that's such. I don't even remember your question.

[Megan Ashley]

No, it's good.

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Will God forgive me if I make a mistake in my prayer?

I need to start over.

I need to do it perfectly this time. Or maybe a blasphemous image that pops into your head that makes you feel. Feel like you sin just for thinking it. Unwanted thoughts like these can be a sign of a type of religious ocd, also known as scrupulosity. Ocd. It's a form of OCD that can turn your faith into a source of constant guilt, doubt, and fear. But because the condition is still widely misunderstood, a lot of people don't even know that it can show up in this way or even that it can center around their faith. But OCD isn't just about being neat or organized like most stereotypes are suggest. OCD latches on to what you care about most, causing a cycle of distressing, intrusive thoughts and behaviors done to get rid of the anxiety they create, like praying until it feels just right or trying to solve or figure out your thoughts. But any relief of these type of behaviors is short lived. So the cycle begins again. Many people silently struggle with religious ocd, thinking it's some sort of personal failure or lack of faith, where that may not be the case. It's a common type of OCD and highly treatable with the right kind of specialized therapy. And that's where no CD comes in. No CD is the world's leading OCD treatment provider. All of these licensed therapists are trained in ERP, or Exposure and Response prevention therapy. The most effective treatment for ocd. NO CD Therapists deeply understand ocd, so they know that these thoughts don't mean anything about you. In live virtual sessions, they'll help you break free from OCD's grip while honoring your faith so you can get back to focusing on what matters the most. No CD is covered by insurance for over 155 million Americans, and they provide support between sessions. So you're never going at this alone. If you think you might be struggling with any kind of OCD, don't wait. Head over to nocd.com and book a free 15 minute call or with their team today and start reclaiming your thoughts from OCD. That's nocd.com. that's n o c d dot com.

[Francis Chan]

There's gotta be a deeper sincerity.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

And, and I think this is what we miss out on because we want to get things done. We want to say as many we can. Because we only have 15 minutes.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

And then you don't meditate deeply on the things that you should be eating on.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. What do you think is more important? Because it feels like it's really important to know who God is in his character and nature to really be able to respond to his love. And so how, like, how do you feel about where we should lay the importance of, of, of that? Like, do we lean into just God loves you, God loves you, God loves you. Which is true. Yes. But how important is biblical literacy when it comes to who God is and knowing him? Because I think that that actually gives us the proper response to his love.

[Francis Chan]

Yeah, I think it's huge. I think that biblical literacy is. I mean that's how we know the love of God. Through the Holy Spirit. It's through the Word. You know, there's a mystery in the word of God, you know, of us know, Hebrews 4:12, you know that the Word of God is sharper than word, but it goes on and it just talks about how it's so it's living, it's active. It's somehow permeate the core of our being and, and discern our thoughts and intentions. It's like, how does, how do words do that, like thing I've written, you know, does that, that is. It's a living word of God. It's a, it's a mystery. And it's through that mystery that explains that there's, you know, His Holy Spirit is somehow pours a love of Christ into our hearts. We need to know these truths. And then Paul is praying that God would strengthen our inner being so that Christ could dwell in there, so that we could. The love of Christ. And so it's like, okay. And then you read all these stories and like I said, it's through my study of the scriptures that I find out this is all about relationship. Like our, our church is in the Book of Numbers and we're in the book of Acts because we read through the Bible every year. And I'm looking at that passage where Miriam and Aaron are bickering about Moses marrying the gite or Ethiopian woman. And, and, and God just says, you guys dare talk about Moses like Just like, do you know how much I love him? I. He's the most humble man on the earth and I talk to him like a man talks to his friend and, and you speak it, you know, and I'm seeing just the way God loved Moses and, and believing. Wow, God, that's. That's how you view me, like you love me and you're perspective of me and. But I would say 99 point something percent of everything I received from the Lord. It's from this book.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

There have been a handful in 58 years, a handful of times where I thought maybe God said something to me that wasn't just right out of this book.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, that's good.

[Francis Chan]

But it's my time in this that tells me how much he loves me. And so it's massive. Our church, we want every. I just got up there and I was just like, oh my God. Thank you. Thank you.

[Torah Couture]

The award winning Tell Me what happened podcast from OnStar is back. New emergencies, new heroes. Find out what happens in season six of Tell Me what Happened. Hey, everyone, my name is Torah Couture and I'm the host of Tell Me what Happened, a podcast that shares true stories of people helping people. We're back with another season and have a ton of amazing new episodes. From freak accidents to unlikely friendships. Plus, this season has one of my favorite stories we've ever done on the podcast. If you're new here, welcome. And if you're already a fan of the show, welcome back. I can't wait for you to listen to season six of the Tell Me what Happened podcast out now.

[Francis Chan]

We do a daily Bible reading. So we read through the Bible every year. We've been doing that for over 10 years. A couple years ago, I just loved it so much. I said, you know, I want to read through the Bible every month. And so I did that every month just because I go, I. I just, I want to drown out the other voices too and just hear from the word. There's nothing like it.

[Megan Ashley]

Wow. I was reading this book by J I, J I Packer and he was talking about, it's the book on knowing God. And he was talking about how we get so caught up in all the mysteries and mystical and spiritual things that we have made the love of God the least of the thing, when that's actually the greatest of the things. And so I'm wondering, because I feel like I see this a lot in social media and a lot of Christian contents where we're talking about all of the, the mysteries and the spiritual realm and this and that. But we don't just marvel at the love of God. And I'm curious because you've been in ministry for so long, I'm curious of what your insight and wisdom is and what our obsession is with all the other things and not our obsession with being loved by the God of the universe.

[Francis Chan]

Yeah. Okay, so I've been in. Okay, first I want to say there is something to mystery that we have to hold on to and embrace. Like Paul says in Corinthians 4, this is how one ought to regard us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. There is some sense in which there's certain things, certain mysteries that we need to embrace. That's what we're called to do. We're servants of God. Words of the mysteries of God. Now, I have been in these strange worlds and I'm not purposefully, but I love people and believers in these different worlds. So I was in the super conservative, anti charismatic. It's all about studying the Word. And I've been other world where it's all about miracles and dreams and prophecies and, and we don't study the Word a whole lot. And, and, and then I have friends in both of these camps and, and I've probably leaned too far on either side. I'm trying to figure it out at different stages of my life. But here's what I found is, and this is my experience not generalizing, but when I was in that really deep conservative world and we're attacking everyone, anyone with believes in any type of gifting or whatever it may be. And we were the ones that understood the word of God. When we're in that camp, we kept like studying, studying, studying, which is, which is great. I'm not against that. But it was almost like we had to like come up with new things. You know, you're applauded when you used a verse to, you know, bash someone else or you found something in a passage no one else saw. And so we, we just became about that. Oh, wow, he really knows the Greek. He really knows the tenses. You know, he really saw that that was this aorist participle. And you know, and it's like, wow, that guy is awesome. And then in this world in the prophetic and it's like the dreams, the miracles and everything else, things become the focus.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

And, and, and they. The just being loved by God gets easily lost. Because if you just talk about the level God every day over here, you're almost looked at like, come on, you Learned that in Sunday school as an 8 year old. Move on to the meat and come parse this verb with me. And it's like, ah. It just felt silly talking about God's love for you and enjoying that. And then on this side, like, no, pursue the greater gifts. And, and there are truths like I, I get it. That. But, but to somehow lose the love of God and not make that primary. Yeah, that's, you know, in the book, I talk a lot about Paul's prayer in Ephesians 3 because it was for faithful believers. And he's. When he's on his knees and he's praying for them regularly, he's asking God to enlighten the eyes of their heart. You know, chapter one, Pour out your glory. Strengthen them so that they can know the love of Christ, which is beyond comprehension. That they would know how long and high and deep. It's like this is what his prayers were. And that. That's not how I prayed for people. Wow. That those were, that was not the primary prayer for the people in my church. Or if I frustrate with another minister and the things he's teaching, man, I'll harp on those things. I, I've even, yeah, I can get on. I go on about that.

[Megan Ashley]

No, I, it's, it's, it's good, it's good. I, I wanted to ask you about the friend that you wrote about in your book who prayed for years. Right. I think it was, Was it five years?

[Francis Chan]

I don't remember.

[Megan Ashley]

I feel like it was. I feel like it was five years. But, but he was at the gym and that's when he received the love, the love of God. And so I'm curious of what your encouragement is to those who, like, how do you know that? Like, I've experienced like, okay, this is Romans 5, 5. Like the Holy Spirit has poured the love of God in my heart. I've experienced his love. This is how I know this has happened. How. How do you help people navigate through the waiting period? And what are they waiting? What is the experience that they're waiting for when it comes to receiving the love of God?

[Francis Chan]

Yeah. And okay, so there's this statement in Oswald Chambers book. He made a statement like, don't let, don't turn your experience into principles. Let the Holy Spirit be as original with others as he was with you.

[Megan Ashley]

That's good.

[Francis Chan]

And I, you know, so Ken, my friend Ken that I went to seminary with, his experience is very strange to me. I go, what was. That's really weird. And, and he would Tell me. He really, you know, because we've talked to since I. And I was like, tell me more about it. And he goes, because you don't get it. He goes, I. I got to the point where I couldn't even eat. I was so stressed.

[Megan Ashley]

Wow.

[Francis Chan]

Trying to earn the level. He goes, the only thing, thing I was not allergic to were eggs and water. That's all I ate.

[Megan Ashley]

Wow.

[Francis Chan]

Was eggs. Like, that's. I mean, this. Like, I don't get that. Like that he was in trying to please God because he was always a very, like, diligent, like, I'm going to do this and I'm going to give God my best. But it put him in the hospital. And I don't understand his journey completely because it's so different from mine. But for him to say, I wanted this experience. And like you said, he prayed for it for years and then boom, it happened. That's not my story. So I can't really get into it. And for me, I had my friends, my church, praying for me that I would, you know, they're fasting and praying that I would just get rid of this insecurity. And I didn't have like a moment like that.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

Where I suddenly fell and cried for hours and just enjoyed it all. It's. It was more of a gradual thing. And the enemy still gets into my head. I. I tell people it's kind of like, you know, you and I probably have friends who were alcoholics, gave their life to the Lord and they will just swear to us. I never desired alcohol again or drug, whatever. And then there's others who say, wow, God came into my life, but I still fight this every day.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

That's the way I would say I am. With the love of God. Maybe as extreme as every day.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

But the enemy in my head, I still get back into performance mode. I still get it. It's not. It's like this process that I have to go, no, that's a lie. I gotta kick it out of my head.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

No, you totally love me. You've always loved me. How did my head go there? And so it's. I would say, I don't know for those who are listening, what journey God has you on, but I do know he's faithful and encourage you. What I did was just tell my wife, told my church, pray for me, because honestly, not secure in his love. And that's embarrassing to admit as your pastor, but it is what it is. And I don't end my life this way. And I don't want to lead other people down this path. That's what I knew to do and to say, God, keep revealing these things to me, get me to meditate on the right things. This is weird, but even when you started the podcast and you read those words from the book that I wrote, I'm like, oh, that's so Minister. I don't want to be weird about it.

[Megan Ashley]

I love that. I want to ask you about grief and suffering, and I want to ask you, because I feel like. And maybe this is just for me, I just had a really interesting season, and I told you I lost my best friend last month. And I started thinking back on some of the times in my life where. Or years in my life where if. If I would have lost someone that close to me, I don't know if I would have engaged with the Lord in the way that I'm engaging with him now and really partially be. Because I really do feel like the Lord led me to this book, and I just. I just believe so much more now than I have in my walk that he actually loves me. And so I think that it's been comforting to me in my grief. But what do you say to those or how do you encourage those who have been going through perpetual seasons of suffering and grief and they feel like God just doesn't love them because he keeps allowing things to happen?

[Francis Chan]

Wow, that's a great question. You know, it's. It's. It's interesting to me how I've heard this so many times that people say that's when they found God was when it was the most painful. And you were. You were saying that earlier. You know, there was something about the pain and the suffering that I just had to cry out for help. And that's where the Lord found me.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

And then are those who. Because of the pain, they say, that's why I don't believe in God or the suffering. And, you know, there's a verse in scripture where it says, like, to the spiritual, all things are spiritual. It's almost like two people can go through the same situation. And one is like, wow, that was the greatest thing for me. And the person is like, that's where my life went straight down.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

And it. I don't think we can control those things. I don't think that there's a. An answer of, hey, this is what you do. I think. I think the key is when you hear testimonies of people like yourself and go, gosh, this is when I cried out to God. Um, and that's when he met me. And, and maybe as people hear enough stories like that, I, I recently did a interview with Joni Erickson. Tada. I don't know if you. To me, I go, gosh, this woman is the most spirit filled person I know on this planet. And it's because of these trials that she'd gone through. And, and I guess I would say it's, it's, it's similar to like, you know, First Corinthians 10:13, where it says, no temptation has overcome you except that which is common to man. And God is. Well, he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can handle. But with the temptation will always give you a way of escape so you can come out from under it.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

But that whole frit of uh, you're not going through anything. Like you're not the first person on earth to go through what you're going through.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

Fact there are that have gone through far worse and they've, you know, they've passed with flying colors. Yeah, that, that, that to me, yeah. To go. I, I think of Joanie and I think of everything she's endured. I think, wow, the joy on her face just to know that's accessible. And so for me, anytime I go through a hardship, she's one of the first people I think of. And I go, this doesn't compare.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

And so she did. I can do it. God help me to find the joy that she has when she went through so much worse. That's what those examples in scripture do for us. That's why he's 11. Look at these people. Look at the apostles. So this is, this is possible, this is attainable. So if I'm looking at this woman who's been a quadriplegic for 60 years and is the most joyful person I know.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

I go, hey, this is, this is well within the realm of possibility.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

That's the same God that I believe in.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

And so I think that that's helpful for me is to look at people.

[Megan Ashley]

That's good. You talk a lot about abiding in God's love and I'm, I'm curious on what that practically looks like. Like if someone to say, okay, Francis, you keep telling me to abide. Scripture is telling me to abide. What does that mean? How do I abide? What does that look like on a regular Tuesday? To abide in God's love.

[Francis Chan]

Yeah. It's even as you were saying, the moment you said that word abide, it triggered something in me where I'm like, oh, I stopped again. You know, I don't know, 15 minutes ago, I told us to stop and remember that God is looking at us right now, loves us. And then I got back into talking mode and I lost sight of that. But you saying that makes me go,

[Megan Ashley]

oh,

[Francis Chan]

I'm in his love and I'm being embraced in him. I'm in my prayer room right now. It's like, ah, Lord, you're in here with me. You love me. I. I need. You know, believers are supposed to remind each other of these things.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

As a spirit filled person, he speaks to others in psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. There's a melody going on in his heart continuously. He's thanking God for everything. All he's thanking. He's got this melody going on. When he sees other believers, he's speaking to them in psalms, hymns, spiritual songs. It's so that he just keeps being reminded and he's reminding others that, wow, I'm in the love of Christ right now. God loves right now. It's for me to, you know, if we ever meet again, you know, to say, Megan, just remember, like, I know you're podcaster, you're this, that. What? Well, your mom, you're everything else. But God is not your identity.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

You're loved by God and these voices of other people, you know, saying things or whatever, don't you gotta drown that out? Whether it's flattery or criticism, those words that they don't mean anything compared to Jesus. Jesus the creator, looking at you and saying, just as the Father loves me, I love Megan. Now just live in that. Just abide in that. Don't. When those other words come in, kick them out.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

Put them to death, take them captive and kill them. And then dwell on my love again. Like, I want to keep pushing you towards that. And that's what a spirit filled person should do is, is that's what the church is supposed to be. It's not a bunch of people just showing up and waiting for the pastor to encourage us or teach us, but it's a bunch of spirit filled people that are constantly reminding each other of the promise of God. Oh, you're so loved. You're so loved. I believe that's why we need the church body is the church body. Spirit filled people help us to abide in the love of God.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. That's so good. How do you. I guess I'm interested in what your thoughts are on some of the conversations and Christian content, in the way that we engage with each other as Christians on Social media. Like, how would you encourage a new. And not necessarily new, but, you know, someone who is a believer, who is maybe a podcaster, maybe just a Christian content person. Like, how. How would you encourage this generation of believers? Because I really. Francis, I really do feel like we're seeing a lot of people being harvested to the kingdom. Like, the Lord is calling a lot of people to himself, especially in this time. And so, like, what would your encouragement be right now? Maybe to the church, maybe to this generation, maybe to content whatever's on your heart to say. But I'm just curious on what encouragement or wisdom you can give.

[Francis Chan]

Yeah. So I recently heard a message from this old Eastern Orthodox leader who said, you know, he was telling a story about someone saying, gosh, you spend a lot of hours in the church praying. You must have a lot to say to God. And he says, no, because most of the times when I'm praying, it's just. I'm just looking at God and he's looking at me, and we're not even saying a whole lot. Wow, that's beautiful. And he's talking about prayer. And this is a lot of my prayer life is just sitting and staring at how beautiful he is, and him just looking at me, adoring me, loving me. And I would say, let's be careful with words. You know, the first time I ever did back then, it was radio and a radio interview. I was only 22 at the time, or 23. And. And I was asked to be on this radio talk show on kkla. And. And they're coaching me ahead of time. It was a guy named Rosie Greer, Jon Stewart and myself. And. And like, okay, Francis dead time. It. It destroys you. They'll just flip the channel because they just think, oh, there's nothing going on. So talk on top of each other. Okay. When Rosie says something, don't wait till he's finished. Cut him off. That's good radio. Okay. Don't wait till we're done. Any pause is. So then it's just like, you know, someone's talking. I cut him off, he cuts me off. You know, we're just going, that's good radio. Talk as quickly as you can. And that's the opposite of scripture.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

Where we're to be slow, to speak, quick to listen. And that's why I go, okay, be careful as you jump into this world. We're probably running out of time for this show. And so in the flesh, it's like, okay, say everything you need to say because you only got a few seconds Left, throw it all out there. And it's like, well, what if God is looking at me right now and he's not really giving me words to lift him up or build now? And what if. Because right now, isn't it true that there are just way more words being thrown out than ever in the history of mankind, especially? And in. There's more books being written, more podcasts made, and, and everything else. And that's not what's saving us. Yeah, it's. We've got more information than ever. And maybe, you know, if we. We really believe in the power of prayer. I mean, that, that, that prayer number six, the blessing, it. He says, you know, you pray this over the people. And he says in that last verse, and so I will put my name upon the people of Israel, and I will bless them. You say these words over them, and I'll do this mere mysterious thing where I'll put my name on them. These things are life changing.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

When Paul says, I praying for you that the strength, that God will just put this strength in you. It's, it's, it's. These are the things that are life changing. It's something mysterious. It's something of the spirit, it's something of God. And we spend far more time in the presence of God. And my mentor, I would say this guy from India, and he's with the Lord now. I call him my mentor. And yet I bet you I could repeat everything he ever told me within an hour's time. Wow.

[Megan Ashley]

Wow.

[Francis Chan]

He just was a man of that many words. And he assured me that he prayed for me every single day. He taught me about prayer, taught me about walking with the Lord, talked to me about what was most important on this earth. And no one's had as big of an impact spiritually on me. And yet maybe an hour's worth of words, if that many, through the 25 years that I knew him. Wow.

[Megan Ashley]

So you're.

So you're telling us that we just need to talk less.

[Francis Chan]

Yeah. And also be careful with our words, because James warns us, hey, this is a firework. You say something and you're going to be judged more harshly for it. He says, any unwholesome word come out of your mouth? Only that which is good for edifying others, that it gives grace to listen. It tells us that we're going to be judged for every careless word we speak. That should make us want to speak less. The Bible even says, with the abundance of words, sin is not absent.

[Megan Ashley]

Wow.

[Francis Chan]

So people just say, oh, I talk a Lot. I go, well, you sin a lot. It's not a. Just a. Oh, yeah, that's my personality disorder. It's like, no, the Bible says the more you talk, the more you're gonna sin.

[Megan Ashley]

Wow.

[Francis Chan]

And so think through your words. Is this really gonna build people up? Is this careless? Am I carelessly slandering someone? Am I careless taking people into thinking about me?

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

Rather than God? I don't. Am I? And. And we've all made those mistakes. I. I've done interviews like this, where afterwards I'll feel like, oh, that was just. I shouldn't have said this. Or, you know, this. Or sometimes I'll watch. You know, I. I hate watching myself. Everyone wants. I'll. I'll catch a clip of something. I'm like, oh, Lord, I am so sorry. I was so meant. I was thinking about me at that moment. And because I didn't really think through, how do I make much of you? How do I decrease? How do you increase? And I blew it, Lord, I'm so sorry.

[Megan Ashley]

Well, listen, I. Again, I'm just really grateful that you took the opportunity, took time out of your day to join me and to talk through Beloved, which, again, I can't say it enough how grateful I am for you and Mercy, who wrote this book and who said yes to the Lord to write the book? Because it really has. There's only, like, three books that I can say that, like, have made a really big impact in. In my walk and this book. And not just me, like I told you, my Patreon community, we're walking through this together. And we're walking through it really slow. Like I told you, we've been start. We started at the beginning of the year. We're only on chapter three. We're taking our time walking through all the things. Like, we're really. Because I. I don't want them to just read another book, but I want them to really, like, I want it to soak in. And I want them to know that God so loves them. And I've been encouraging them that, like, the love of God is not that we have to strive for, but to. To receive and to remain and to respond to. And so that's why we're kind of just really taking our time going through this book. But I want to thank you for coming on. I want to thank you for this book. It's. It literally has changed so much of. Of my relationship with the Lord and how I respond to his love. So I just. Thank you. And so at the end of every episode, I like to do a journal prompt because I feel like we always just rush to the next piece of content or the next, you know, podcast or whatever. But I really want people to be able to process through what they heard. And so I always want to give my guests the opportunity to give our audience a journal prompt so they can really just sit with the Lord and process all the things that they heard from you and I in this conversation. So what would you give as a journal prompt to our audience?

[Francis Chan]

Wow. Yeah. I think it's absolute honesty before the Lord. Like, I can. I'm a good enough communicator that I can communicate anything I want to you and to everyone at the listening. But when I'm alone with the Lord, there's no. There's no fooling. I can't. I. So for me to come before the Lord and say, oh, God, I just. I hunger and thirst for you. It's like he's going, really, you know, so it's your opportunity. There's times I've come to the Lord and I've just said, God, you know, I would rather surf right now or golf right now or. I wasn't feeling it this morning, and God changed my heart. As I've had to say, God, I know I want to love you most, and there's other things competing right now. God, could you change that? Could you just bless me with an understanding and a desire to love you most? Yeah, it was weird to say that. You know, I can't say that to her. I can't say that to my wife. You know, like, honey, I'm not really loving you today. Can you just, you know, you don't do that and help more. That's weird. But with the Lord who knows your heart, this is an opportunity for you to just maybe even write to the Lord.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, that's good.

[Francis Chan]

God, you already know this.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

But I want a child more than I want you. I want a relationship more than I want you. And I know this is wrong. Please fix this. Or if that's not, you know, whatever, it is just the honest truth. Like, or. Or. Or just write out as honest as you can be. No one else is listening. This is you and the Lord who knows everything.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

It's just that sometimes get in these patterns of making ourselves sound best.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Francis Chan]

And so this is your opportunity, and I encourage you when it comes to being loved by him, write down the absolute truth that God already knows. And as you write it, maybe you don't even know these things are so absolutely true until he reveals it to you at this time.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that, that it's going to be a really good journal prompt for everyone to just sit and be honest and don't sanitize your prayers, but just like be honest before the Lord. I think that's awesome and I think that's really helpful. Um, Francis, thank you again. I, I can't, I really can't thank you enough for, for this. I've been waiting to talk to you for such a long time about this book and again, I'm so grateful for it. I appreciate you. I appreciate all that you do. And again, thank you for joining me today and blessing our audience.

[Francis Chan]

So thanks, Megan. So great to meet you and thanks for having me on the show.

[Megan Ashley]

Absolutely. We'll see you guys next week. Thanks for joining us.

Hey y', all, thank you so much for being here with me on into this week. If this episode bless you or challenge you or even stirred up something in your spirit, go ahead and like this video, drop a comment below and share with us what part of the conversation really stuck out the most. Share with someone who you think might benefit from watching this. It really helps the show. And listen, if you want more of In Totality on a weekly basis, then join my Patreon community. You get early access to watch In Totality episodes, exclusive behind the scenes content and In Totality docu series which is like my vlog, first access to merch drops events, Bible studies where we're walking through the word together, book clubs and so much more. We're growing in our faith together and I would love for you to be a part of it if you haven't already. Subscribe and tap the notification bell so that you never miss miss an episode Thursdays. You'll find me right here on YouTube in the live chat when the episode premieres. I hope this message encouraged you today. I pray that you find a good godly community and a Bible based church where you're rooted in love and growing. Keep stepping into God's truth in totality. I'll see you next time.

[Titi Sham and Titi Nia]

What's up, you guys? It's your favorite aunties from your favorite aunties podcast. I'm Titi Sham. And I'm Titi Nia. And we're exactly that. You know, your favorite aunties. We're young enough to give you a fresh perspective and old enough to have some wisdom. You know, a good key to keep you laughing. Absolutely. You know, we're taking talking about all things dating, finances, relationships, navigating faith, even some things you may be going through with your friends. And, you know, it's not too many people talking about that. So make sure that you tune in because we're going to give you that relatable content in a way that you're going to love and have some good fun. So make sure to subscribe to your favorite aunties podcast on all platforms. That's Apple, Spotify, even YouTube. We can't wait for you to join our family. New episodes drop every Wednesday. Bye.

[Megan Ashley]

Hi, I am Mandy Moore.

[Francis Chan]

Sterling K. Brown. And I'm Chris Sullivan. And we host the podcast that was Us now on Headgum.

[Megan Ashley]

Each episode, we're gonna go into a deep dive from our show.

This is us.

[Francis Chan]

That's right.

[Megan Ashley]

We're gonna go episode by episode. We're also gonna pepper in episodes with different guest stars and writers and casting directors.

[Francis Chan]

Are we gonna cry? Yes, a little bit. Are we gonna laugh a lot? A whole lot. That's what I'm hoping, man. Listen to. That was us on your favorite podcast app. Or watch full video episodes on YouTube or Spotify new episodes every Tuesday.