EP 78: True Worship - In Totality with Megan Ashley

Summary4 min read

Podcast Summary: EP 78 – True Worship In Totality with Megan Ashley Release Date: July 8, 2025

Introduction

In Episode 78 of "In Totality," host Megan Ashley delves deep into the essence of true worship with her special guest, Pastor Ebenezer, the founder and host of the "Shaping the Culture" podcast. The episode, titled "True Worship," navigates the intricacies of worship beyond the confines of traditional settings, emphasizing a life wholly devoted to God.

Guest Introduction

Megan warmly welcomes Ebenezer, highlighting his expertise in fostering meaningful conversations about faith and culture. Their camaraderie sets a collaborative tone for the episode.

Megan Ashley [03:12]: "You are literally the best question asker ever."

Ebenezer [05:10]: "The main thing is him."

Defining True Worship

The heart of the discussion revolves around understanding what constitutes true worship. Megan references Romans 12, framing true worship not merely as singing or attending church but as a reasonable service—a continuous, daily offering of oneself to God.

Megan Ashley [17:58]: "Give us this day our daily bread... worship is something that is your reasonable service."

Ebenezer [52:10]: "True worship is forgiving one another, bearing with one another, honoring one another. It takes a level of death. It takes a level of sacrifice."

Posture in Prayer and Worship

Megan introduces the concept of 'posture' in prayer, advocating for physical positions that reflect humility and reverence. This practice, she believes, transforms prayer from a mere routine into a profound act of worship.

Megan Ashley [19:28]: "There's something about being on my face before the Lord that automatically switches me into a position of humility and dependence."

Ebenezer [22:12]: "There was this posture of humility dependence."

Living Worship Daily

Both hosts emphasize that true worship extends beyond Sunday services. It encompasses everyday actions—serving others, forgiving, and living out God's commands. This continuous worship creates an overflow that naturally extends into moments of corporate worship.

Megan Ashley [54:19]: "I've been worshiping all week. Monday through Saturday."

Ebenezer [53:52]: "When there is a reasonable service that is worked out Monday through Saturday, there's an overflow of it."

Shaping Culture Through Faith

Ebenezer shares his journey in podcasting, initially aimed at reaching his Ethiopian Christian community. Over eight years, his podcast "Shaping the Culture" has grown, impacting listeners beyond his immediate circle. He discusses the importance of Christians actively contributing to culture rather than merely critiquing it.

Ebenezer [24:06]: "Andy Crouch says we are notorious for condemning culture, but where are the Christians contributing to culture?"

Megan Ashley [70:21]: "Love covers a multitude of sins."

Facing Personal Sin Through Knowing God

A poignant segment addresses the struggle of recognizing one's own sins as one grows closer to God. Megan shares her personal experience of how deeper knowledge of God has led her to confront and confess her shortcomings, viewing it as a pathway to redemption rather than a source of discouragement.

Megan Ashley [60:28]: "The more I know God, the more he's exposing sin in me."

Ebenezer [63:23]: "As you get closer to the light, the darkness gets exposed."

Humility and Dependency

The conversation underscores the necessity of humility and total dependence on God. Both Megan and Ebenezer agree that worship should be centered on acknowledging God's sovereignty and relinquishing personal pride.

Megan Ashley [39:12]: "You can't add anything to God. You cannot."

Ebenezer [43:10]: "You are uniquely made, but you're not special. You are God."

Practical Applications for Listeners

The episode concludes with practical advice for listeners striving to embody true worship. Megan encourages daily practices that reflect worship through actions, such as praying for church leaders and serving the community selflessly.

Megan Ashley [55:38]: "Pray for your pastor before you go to church. Pray for your parking lot volunteers."

Ebenezer [66:46]: "We need more humility as we approach the Word and understand our culture."

Conclusion

EP 78 of "In Totality" offers a comprehensive exploration of true worship, advocating for a worshipful lifestyle that transcends traditional boundaries. Through heartfelt dialogue, Megan and Ebenezer inspire listeners to integrate worship into every aspect of their lives, shaping both personal faith and broader cultural landscapes.

Notable Quotes:

Megan Ashley [19:28]: "There's something about being on my face before the Lord that automatically switches me into a position of humility and dependence."
Ebenezer [24:06]: "Andy Crouch says we are notorious for condemning culture, but where are the Christians contributing to culture?"
Megan Ashley [54:19]: "I've been worshiping all week. Monday through Saturday."
Megan Ashley [60:28]: "The more I know God, the more he's exposing sin in me."
Ebenezer [66:46]: "We need more humility as we approach the Word and understand our culture."

Recommendations: For those inspired by this episode, Megan Ashley invites listeners to join the "Village" Patreon community for exclusive content and deeper engagement. Additionally, listeners are encouraged to explore Ebenezer's "Shaping the Culture" podcast to further their understanding of integrating faith with contemporary societal issues.

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Transcript852 lines

[00:00]
Megan Ashley
What's up, fam? Listen. If you've been blessed by In Totality, the podcast, then I want to personally invite you to go deeper by joining our Patreon community called the Village. Every Tuesday morning, the Village members get early access to the full episode of the podcast two days before it drops publicly on YouTube. So while everyone else is waiting, you're already soaking it in, but that's just the beginning. And as a Village member, you get exclusive access to the In Totality docu series. It's a behind the scenes look at how I walk on my faith in real life. No filters, no fluff, just real moments of me trusting the Lord, processing life, and growing in truth. We also do live book club zoom calls where we read and grow together in the Word. I'm not just talking at you worth walking through it together, asking questions, wrestling through scriptures, learning to follow Christ more fully. You know, like that Romans 12. You'll also get bonus content, extra conversations with podcast guests that go even deeper, plus moments that didn't make it to the episode, but were just too good not to share. And one more thing, when you join the Village, you get first access to merch before it drops public. So if you love the message and you want to rep the movement, you. You'll get first dibs every time. But more than the content, the Village is about community. It's a safe place for believers to connect and grow and be reminded that you're not doing this walk alone. You're a part of something real. We're building something special, and we would love for you to be a part. So hit pause, go to www.patreon.com meganashley and join today and I'll meet you there. What's up, you guys? Listen, what does it mean to shape the culture in the context of our faith and our Christianity? What does that mean? Listen, this week we are going to talk to my very special guest. I don't want to spoil it, but we're going to get into all the things. What does it mean to give God a true worship? What does it mean to give him a reasonable service? You guys know I love Romans 12. So we're going to get into all those things right now on In Totality Foreign. What's up, you guys? Welcome back to another episode of In Totality. I'm your host, Megan Ashley. I am really excited today because I have a guest and I love. I. I love having guests because it just. I like having conversations about the Lord. If you know me in my personal life, I love Talking about all things that God is doing and who he is, all that stuff. But I have my friend on today, and I'm so excited to introduce the In Totality audience to him. He's fantastic. He's a pastor. He is a podcast host of Shaping the Culture. So please welcome Ebenezer.
[03:01]
Ebenezer
Hey, hey, hey, hey.
[03:02]
Unknown
What's up, Megan?
[03:03]
Megan Ashley
I'm so excited to interview you.
[03:05]
Unknown
I'm a little nervous. I'm usually in that. I know, but I'm over here.
[03:09]
Megan Ashley
Well, we can. We're gonna interview each other because it's two interviewers.
[03:12]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah.
[03:13]
Megan Ashley
Two podcast hoes. Yeah, we're gonn interview each other. One thing that I love about you is you are literally the best question asker ever.
[03:22]
Ebenezer
Man.
[03:23]
Unknown
I appreciate that. That's so kind of you.
[03:24]
Megan Ashley
Literally, you have. You are just a great host.
[03:27]
Ebenezer
Thank you.
[03:28]
Unknown
That means a lot.
[03:29]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah.
[03:29]
Unknown
I just. I'm curious. I love learning and I love hearing people's perspectives and so. But I love that it translates that way.
[03:36]
Megan Ashley
Yeah, it really does. You. You have, you. You ask really great questions. You're very, very intentional. Very observant. Like, because you know that some people were like, they already know the question. I hate being interviewed by people. This happened to me actually, not that long ago where I was being interviewed, and it was like they just knew the questions that they wanted to ask.
[04:00]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[04:00]
Megan Ashley
And so no matter what I said.
[04:02]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah.
[04:03]
Megan Ashley
Like, their next question had nothing to do with what I just said. But it's. But with. With you. Like, you're very observant and you listen and you're like, even if you have a direction of where you want to go in, you just kind of fly. So. I literally have learned a lot about how to be a podcast host from just watching you too.
[04:22]
Unknown
That means a lot. Thank you. So kind. I appreciate that.
[04:24]
Megan Ashley
Yeah. I'm happy to have you here.
[04:26]
Unknown
I'm happy to be here. You know, it's crazy. We had you on Shaping the Culture almost to the day last year.
[04:33]
Megan Ashley
Really?
[04:34]
Unknown
Like, wow, that's sovereignty of God. It's crazy how that works out.
[04:37]
Megan Ashley
Turned it right back around.
[04:38]
Unknown
Yeah, for sure.
[04:39]
Megan Ashley
Were you. Were you surprised that I wanted to have you on?
[04:41]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[04:42]
Megan Ashley
Why?
[04:42]
Unknown
I was. I don't know. I guess I just don't expect a lot. So when I got the email, I was like, did my reading this, right? Like, what?
[04:51]
Megan Ashley
I just don't. I don't know. I think people need to have you on their podcast. Like, you have so much knowledge and just wisdom and I don't know you just. You just have a lot of good things to say. And I've just. I've just. Like I said, I've learned a lot from you, so I appreciate it in the year that we've been friends.
[05:09]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[05:10]
Megan Ashley
So.
[05:10]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[05:10]
Unknown
And I've learned a lot from you, too.
[05:12]
Ebenezer
Seriously.
[05:13]
Unknown
So encouraged. Encouraged by your faith, by your love for the Lord, your boldness to say the hard things. I'm like, we gotta protect Megan, y'.
[05:21]
Ebenezer
All.
[05:21]
Unknown
We gotta pray for her. And so. But no, I've. I've really been inspired and even challenged to, like, turn it up a notch, because I could. I could say things, but not everything that the Lord is telling me to say just out of fear. But watching you has really inspired. Encouraged me to, like, trust the Lord and just be obedient and let the chips fall where they.
[05:42]
Megan Ashley
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So tell us about who you are.
[05:45]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[05:46]
Megan Ashley
Because I want to get into all the things. We were already having, like, a pre podcast episode before we would turn the cameras on, but I want people to know who you are, where you come from, your background.
[05:55]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[05:56]
Megan Ashley
And then I kind of want to get into, like, why. Shaping the culture. Like, why. What. What was your vision and what. What do you feel like the Lord was leading you to do with that podcast? Because it is. It's very interesting, the guests that you have on and kind of just the direction that you want to take it. But first, I want to kind of just know about you. Tell us who Ebenezer is and all this stuff.
[06:17]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[06:17]
Unknown
Ethiopian, American. Hey, let's go. Second gen in the house.
[06:22]
Megan Ashley
East Africa.
[06:22]
Unknown
East Africa, Stand up. We got a lot of Ethiopians that actually watch in totality.
[06:27]
Megan Ashley
Really?
[06:27]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[06:28]
Megan Ashley
Cause I'm East African. I don't care, y'.
[06:30]
Ebenezer
All.
[06:31]
Megan Ashley
I don't care what 23andMe say.
[06:34]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[06:37]
Megan Ashley
I am East African. I do not care. You know that. Told you what my results were, right?
[06:41]
Unknown
No, no, no.
[06:42]
Megan Ashley
They said I was West African.
[06:43]
Unknown
Nah.
[06:44]
Ebenezer
For real?
[06:45]
Megan Ashley
Yes.
[06:46]
Unknown
Can we just claim you right now? You're Ethiopian. We adopt you.
[06:50]
Megan Ashley
You don't understand. When we got our test results back, Jordan and I did this. I'm spitting in this tube, and I'm like, east African, East African. I know I'm East African. I know I'm East African. They sent us back the results. Like, it comes in, like, your email.
[07:02]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[07:03]
Megan Ashley
When I tell you, like, there was a grieving. I was grieved.
[07:08]
Unknown
I'm not surprised.
[07:09]
Megan Ashley
I've waited my whole life to hear that I was East African, man.
[07:11]
Unknown
I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.
[07:13]
Megan Ashley
Because most East Africans see me, they're like, oh, you're Hap. Sean. Or you're.
[07:16]
Unknown
Oh, you know. Yeah. You know.
[07:18]
Megan Ashley
They're like, yeah.
[07:20]
Unknown
I mean, yeah, let's go.
[07:22]
Megan Ashley
Come on. I know how to do that.
[07:24]
Unknown
I don't even know how to do that.
[07:24]
Megan Ashley
I know how to. I am East African. Y' all stand up. So when I got the test results, I literally was heartbroken.
[07:31]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[07:32]
Unknown
I'm so sorry. Let's rewrite that, right? To forget. What was it? 23andMe.
[07:36]
Megan Ashley
23 and me. I'm about to sue them.
[07:37]
Unknown
We say you're Ethiopian. An Ethiopian claims you.
[07:41]
Ebenezer
Yeah. Yeah.
[07:42]
Unknown
I love that. That's crazy. When you said Aisha, I was like, oh, she's tapped in. For real, for real, for real, for real. I.
[07:47]
Megan Ashley
One of my really good friends back in Ohio, she was Han. And so, like, I would be around all of her. You know, y' all roll together. Y' all don't have no outside friends. Y'.
[07:57]
Unknown
All.
[07:58]
Megan Ashley
Y' all are a. I'm like, this is. This is why the real Christianity is in East African. The Ethiopian eunuch, he really did y' all a solid. Cause y' all know how to be a community. I'm like, they just stay together.
[08:13]
Unknown
Yeah, we really do.
[08:15]
Megan Ashley
For real. I love that about y'.
[08:16]
Unknown
All Tapped in. Yeah, we actually. I was raised not being allowed to hang out with anybody outside of our community.
[08:21]
Megan Ashley
Wow.
[08:21]
Unknown
I actually hate. I used to hate it, you know, growing up.
[08:23]
Megan Ashley
Wow.
[08:24]
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you get older and you see some of the benefits of that.
[08:27]
Megan Ashley
For sure.
[08:28]
Ebenezer
But.
[08:28]
Unknown
Yeah, no, we roll deep. For sure.
[08:31]
Megan Ashley
Yeah, y' all do.
[08:32]
Unknown
For sure. There's actually a lot of Ethiopians here in Atlanta.
[08:34]
Megan Ashley
There are. Ye.
[08:35]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[08:35]
Megan Ashley
I remember seeing that when we had your live show.
[08:38]
Unknown
Yes, that's right.
[08:39]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[08:39]
Megan Ashley
I said, well, dang, this church is big.
[08:42]
Unknown
Yeah, it's actually.
[08:43]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[08:44]
Unknown
It's actually one of the. We have a handful of mega churches across the nation, and one of them is here. That's crazy.
[08:50]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[08:50]
Megan Ashley
Okay, so were you born in Ethiopia.
[08:52]
Unknown
Or you were born in D.C. okay. Which is basically.
[08:55]
Ebenezer
I'm an American. Yeah, Relax. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[08:58]
Unknown
I actually got made fun of my whole life. They didn't claim me because, like, you weren't born back home.
[09:03]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah.
[09:03]
Unknown
But dc, though, houses the most amount of Ethiopians after Ethiopia.
[09:09]
Megan Ashley
Wow.
[09:09]
Unknown
So they say there's close to a million Ethiopian Eritreans in the dmv.
[09:13]
Megan Ashley
Wow. That's crazy.
[09:14]
Unknown
Yeah. So born there and Then my dad is a worship leader, worship singer, and he was doing his thing. And then, you know, when I was about four or five, there was a church out in Minnesota. Actually, what's crazy is two churches. There was a church in Atlanta, the one you saw in the church in Minnesota, who had reached out and asked him to be a pastor.
[09:34]
Megan Ashley
Oh, wow.
[09:35]
Unknown
And he prayed about it. And, you know, the Lord led him to. I don't know why Minnesota's so cold. It's like minus 9 degrees yesterday.
[09:43]
Megan Ashley
Why? Why are we in Minnesota?
[09:45]
Unknown
I'm waiting for God to release. Yeah, it's cold.
[09:48]
Ebenezer
It's cold. So cold.
[09:49]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[09:50]
Unknown
But the Lord led him there. And so at a young age, we moved to Minnesota and grew up a pk. And, you know, I remember my parents had sat me down at a young age, and they're just like, hey, your actions will reflect us. And so we need you to be on your best behavior.
[10:09]
Ebenezer
Wow.
[10:09]
Unknown
And so I remember from a young age feeling like I had to live up to the standard. I couldn't be like the rest of the kids. And so, yeah, from a young age, I was the good kid, the good boy. Did everything everybody asked. I was, you know, Sunday school teachers love me. I did everything my parents asked of me. And I actually thought me and God were on good terms because of that. And then I realized later on, God has no grandchildren. Right. He only has children.
[10:40]
Megan Ashley
That's good.
[10:41]
Unknown
And when the Lord saved me, I always say my testimony is like, God saved me from self righteousness. That's my story. You know, I wasn't out in the streets or doing anything crazy, but I really relied on my behavior. I relied on my obedience to be in good standing with God. But I had a heart that was far from him. And so I would do everything my parents would ask, but I had resentment towards them in my heart. And that's what the Lord wanted to get a hold of. And so, yeah, yeah. So got older, got saved. And yeah, I've been rocking with Jesus for a long time. This summer will be 20 years.
[11:15]
Ebenezer
Wow.
[11:16]
Unknown
Yeah, I got saved at 14.
[11:18]
Megan Ashley
That's awesome.
[11:18]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[11:19]
Megan Ashley
That's awesome.
[11:19]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[11:20]
Megan Ashley
And now you're a pastor.
[11:22]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[11:23]
Unknown
Pastoring. I just. This January, celebrated 10 years.
[11:26]
Megan Ashley
That's crazy.
[11:26]
Unknown
Pastoral ministry.
[11:28]
Megan Ashley
You're so young.
[11:29]
Unknown
Yeah, I started at 23. I started off as a youth pastor. And that. That's a story in itself. I always tell people I got tricked into pastoring. That was not on my vision board. That's not.
[11:41]
Megan Ashley
Did you Want to stay a youth pastor?
[11:43]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[11:44]
Megan Ashley
Okay.
[11:44]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[11:45]
Unknown
Well, once I said yes to the call.
[11:47]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah.
[11:48]
Unknown
Because now I'm a church planter and pastoring a congregation, and that's way harder than being a youth pastor. I would much rather hang out with young people, talk about Jesus and all that good stuff. And so seeing my dad as a senior pastor, I know what comes with leadership, and I never wanted to be the number one person. I'm cool being the number two and the number three guy. I'm very comfortable there.
[12:13]
Megan Ashley
Team, Team.
[12:14]
Unknown
I'd be on the team.
[12:15]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[12:16]
Unknown
Being the number one guy. You get a lot of hits.
[12:18]
Megan Ashley
Yep.
[12:18]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[12:18]
Unknown
You have a lot of responsibility. And so. But, yeah, for me, the way I have lived my life is just saying yes every single day to the Lord, being faithful to what he's put in front of me. And then one thing leads to another, and I wake up and I'm like, wow, I'm here.
[12:34]
Megan Ashley
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because what. What was your transition like? Cause didn't you. Recent. Was it recently or when did you make the decision where you're like, I'm going to do everything, just ministry. Like, I'm not. I'm not working. That was, like, not that long ago.
[12:48]
Unknown
Yeah, that was 2020. I made that decision in 2023 and stepped into that in 2024. It's a wild story. So I was working at a nonprofit. That's my 9 to 5. And then I'm pastoring. It was by. By vocational ministry. And I have my podcast, shaping the culture. And I've been. This April will be eight years of podcasting. Crazy. You're a time.
[13:14]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[13:16]
Megan Ashley
You are a vet. This is why I learned from you, because you're a vet.
[13:18]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[13:19]
Unknown
And when I started the podcast, we can get into that. A podcasting wasn't a thing. This wasn't. It wasn't a business. You know, everybody has a podcast now. But at that time, nobody was really podcasting like that. And so I did it out of a. Just, like, a love for it. And, you know, it made me happy, things like that. And so, you know, I was pastoring, working the nonprofit and podcasting on the side. And then my job approached me, and they were just like, hey, we want you to be a little bit more invested in this, and this is going to take more of your time. And for me, what that meant was I would have to put the podcast to the side and take on less responsibility at the church. And I was like, okay, let me Pray about this. I had, like, a week to make a decision. So this is the week of Thanksgiving back November 2023. And I remember saying, lord, if you want me to podcast, if you want me to pastor in this capacity, I need you to speak to me. I know you have spoken through your word.
[14:23]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[14:24]
Unknown
But I need.
[14:25]
Megan Ashley
Like, you're like, I need a burning bush.
[14:27]
Unknown
I need a burning bush. I need a dream. Something for sure. And within one week, God spoke to me three times, Actually, three times in one day through three different people, through a stranger, through a family friend, and through a church member. They don't know each other. They weren't in communication with one another, and every single one of them said the same thing. And so I remember I was like, all right, Thanksgiving Day, me and my family sat together, and I was like, I think God's calling me to quit my job. It feels irresponsible. I'm 32 at the time, and I know I'm going to pay for bills. I don't know how God's going to come through, but I just know January 2024, I got to trust him with the podcast. I got to trust him with the church.
[15:09]
Ebenezer
Wow.
[15:10]
Unknown
So I made that decision, and January came around, and YouTube was like, you can monetize. And then I had a. I had Jackie come on. I shared this with Jackie, and that one interview just helped out in so many different ways. Wow, that's awesome. And then it just was like, non stop after that, you know? And so, yeah, I look back and I'm like, wow, I haven't been working or I haven't had a 9 to 5 per se since December of 2023. But the Lord's taking care of my bills. The Lord's. Yeah, he's been opening some doors. And so I can look back now and say, yeah, that was definitely from the Lord. But in the moment, I was like, this is irresponsible.
[15:52]
Megan Ashley
You're like, I have bills.
[15:54]
Unknown
I'm about to go homeless.
[15:55]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah.
[15:57]
Unknown
But the Lord knew what I needed to hear. And the Lord knew how to settle me. And once he spoke, it was just a matter of obedience after that.
[16:05]
Megan Ashley
Yeah, yeah, always. I used to tell my kids all the time. It started off with me telling I was over a dance team back in Ohio for a Bible college, and I used to tell those kids all the time. And then it translated into me telling my kids all the time that obedience is our job and outcome is. Is God's job. And so, like, when you trust in The Lord. Right. It's like, you trust in him, and the big stuff is on him.
[16:37]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[16:37]
Megan Ashley
You know what I mean? Like, I don't have to worry about what the outcome is.
[16:41]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[16:41]
Megan Ashley
If I'm trusting in Him.
[16:42]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[16:43]
Megan Ashley
And then if I know that His Word says that he will. He will not withhold any good thing from me. Like, he'll take care of me.
[16:51]
Unknown
That's good.
[16:52]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[16:52]
Megan Ashley
You know what I mean? And whatever I have is what I need. You know what I'm saying? I think sometimes that we just don't want to lose what we want.
[17:01]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[17:02]
Megan Ashley
And just be okay with what we need. You know what I'm saying? Like. Oh, well. Yeah. You. Your. Your lifestyle might change.
[17:08]
Unknown
Yeah, that's right.
[17:09]
Megan Ashley
You might not be able to Uber eats.
[17:10]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[17:11]
Megan Ashley
Every other day.
[17:12]
Unknown
That's it right there.
[17:12]
Megan Ashley
You know what I'm saying? You may not be able to shop like you used to. You may not live in the house that you want.
[17:18]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[17:19]
Megan Ashley
But do you have what you need?
[17:20]
Ebenezer
Yeah, that's it. Yeah.
[17:22]
Unknown
So one thing I was, like, meditating on pretty heavy in 2024 was how the Lord provided for the Israelites in the wilderness. Everybody wants to talk about the miracle of milk and honey, but nobody wants to talk about the miracle of manna.
[17:36]
Megan Ashley
Hello. I was just talking about that.
[17:38]
Unknown
Right. And so, hello.
[17:40]
Megan Ashley
They laughing because I was just going off.
[17:42]
Unknown
And what's crazy about that is he only gave them enough for that day, and if they tried to keep any more, it would spoil immediately.
[17:51]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[17:53]
Megan Ashley
You over here lifting up your blanket, getting yesterday's man of maggots.
[17:57]
Unknown
Maggots, for sure.
[17:58]
Ebenezer
Sure. Yeah.
[17:59]
Megan Ashley
Mold.
[18:00]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah.
[18:01]
Megan Ashley
It's like all the above. And. But it. I was talking about this, and, like, it's in the prayer.
[18:06]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[18:06]
Megan Ashley
Give us this day our daily bread. And I think that we want a Christianity that we can store up. Yeah, I'm gonna store up some faith. I'm gonna store up. You know, I'm gonna take this prayer time because, you know when you have, like, a really good. A really good prayer time, you like, oh, that's. Bet that's about to last me about three weeks. You're like, oh, that's about to last me a few days. But it's like, no, that. Today. Yeah, that's what you need it for. Today, that's good. Tomorrow you're gonna need something different.
[18:33]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[18:34]
Megan Ashley
And you don't know the days ahead of you, but the Lord does.
[18:38]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
[18:40]
Megan Ashley
So you have to approach him Daily.
[18:43]
Ebenezer
Daily. That's it. That's it.
[18:45]
Megan Ashley
Like, that's why I, I, I. I challenge people, and especially, like, my Patreon community, I challenge them. I've been doing this posture challenge.
[18:53]
Unknown
Okay.
[18:53]
Megan Ashley
Right. Where it's called posture. And. And in presence. And I've been challenging them to spend intimate time with the Lord, but do it in a posture that reflects reverence. So at a physical posture that reflects reverence. Because for me, I was praying in my. In my bed. Like, I would wake up, and I'm still, like, snug. I'm like, dear God, you know?
[19:20]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[19:21]
Megan Ashley
But the Lord was like, no, I want you to, like, he has me in a season where he just wants me uncomfortable. He wants me to sacrifice.
[19:29]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[19:29]
Megan Ashley
And so I've been getting up and, like, getting on my face, but I was challenging them to do this and to do it first thing in the morning. And the reason why I feel like prayer first thing in the morning is so significant is because you don't know what that day has to offer you.
[19:44]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah.
[19:45]
Megan Ashley
But I can go to the one who knows exactly what this day has to offer me.
[19:50]
Ebenezer
Good.
[19:51]
Megan Ashley
And it should be something that we should do daily, because you don't know. You might. Yes. You might have an idea. I got to go to work. I got to do this. I got to take the kids. I got a meeting. You know, you might have an idea of what your schedule may be.
[20:05]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[20:05]
Megan Ashley
But you don't know.
[20:07]
Unknown
You really don't.
[20:07]
Megan Ashley
You don't.
[20:08]
Unknown
You're at the mercy of whatever that day has for you.
[20:10]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah.
[20:11]
Megan Ashley
And I just. I feel like this, like, dependency.
[20:15]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[20:16]
Megan Ashley
Is something that the Lord is requiring even more now.
[20:20]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah.
[20:21]
Megan Ashley
Than ever before. And maybe I'm late to the party, but no, no. I feel like this, like, this idea of dependency is such a, like, prevalent thing right now.
[20:31]
Unknown
I love that. And I'm with you on that. As you're talking, I'm thinking about Elijah.
[20:35]
Megan Ashley
And this is what Ebenezer does, y'.
[20:38]
Ebenezer
All.
[20:38]
Megan Ashley
Y' all have to watch his podcast. You could say anything. He was like, you know what that reminds me. Ecclesiastics. He's like, matter of fact, actually, I was over in Ezra, and it's like, you just a encyclopedia for Scripture.
[20:54]
Unknown
I just love the Word just like you do.
[20:56]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[20:56]
Unknown
You've been doing that today, too.
[20:58]
Megan Ashley
Only because I've spent more time in the Word, but I'm gonna be better at it. You're great at it.
[21:04]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[21:04]
Unknown
Just take some time. But, yeah, the posture piece Elijah literally tells King Ahab they were in a three year drought. Because of their sin, they've repented. Now it's time for rain. So he says to Ahab, you go eat meat, drink wine, I'm gonna go pray. So he goes up to this, like, mountaintop, and the Bible says he had his ears in between his legs and he's praying for rain. And nobody really knows the significance of that or why he prayed in that way, but it's pretty cons. Like a lot of most scholars believe it's a posture of humility that he. The thing that he was asking for was so big, the thing that he was believing for was so big that he couldn't just lay down and pray. He had to posture himself in a way that demonstrated and communicated to God that he had his eyes on him. And he was desperate because he just told King Hayab, the drought is over.
[22:02]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[22:02]
Unknown
So I'm gonna look like a fool.
[22:04]
Megan Ashley
If you do not come through for me.
[22:06]
Unknown
You don't show up, we are in trouble.
[22:08]
Megan Ashley
Sure.
[22:08]
Unknown
And so there was this posture of humility dependence.
[22:12]
Megan Ashley
And that's the thing. It's the humility.
[22:14]
Ebenezer
Yes.
[22:14]
Megan Ashley
There's something about being on my face before the Lord.
[22:19]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[22:20]
Megan Ashley
That automatically switches. A humility. Like it puts me in a position to be humble.
[22:26]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[22:27]
Megan Ashley
It puts me in a position to be dependent. Because it's not comfortable.
[22:30]
Unknown
It's not. No, no, not at all.
[22:32]
Megan Ashley
But it's also like, I am before you because you're God. And like, this is. I don't know, it's something about that. What it does to my brain. It's like he's God.
[22:43]
Ebenezer
Yeah. Yeah.
[22:45]
Megan Ashley
What other posture is he deserving of? Do you know what I mean? It's like, I don't. I don't know what other posture I should give you.
[22:53]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[22:53]
Megan Ashley
Not to say that he doesn't hear us when we're laying in the bed and praying, because he does. He hears us. But there's something about, I don't know, just posturing my body, my physical body before him that's good. That has changed my prayer life.
[23:07]
Unknown
That's good.
[23:08]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[23:09]
Unknown
That's beautiful.
[23:09]
Megan Ashley
I just think it's a. It's a game changer.
[23:11]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[23:12]
Unknown
Posture is everything. Right. Like, let's say you're on a date and you're talking to someone and they're on their phone, or they're looking away. They're physically present with you, but their posture is not communicating present with you.
[23:23]
Megan Ashley
And that you're important to them. You matter to them. Like, yeah, my gaze and my attention.
[23:29]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[23:30]
Megan Ashley
My focus is on you. You know what I mean?
[23:32]
Unknown
That's it.
[23:33]
Megan Ashley
It's just made it. It's made a huge difference when it comes to shaping the culture.
[23:38]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[23:39]
Megan Ashley
What. You've been doing this for eight years. What started that? Because you're ahead of the curve. You're like, I'm gonna do a podcast about Floor, and I'm gonna do it before everybody else.
[23:48]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[23:50]
Megan Ashley
So what. What was kind of. What was the Lord speaking to you as far as starting that? And what. What is your intention with shaping the culture? And why is it called shaping the culture?
[23:59]
Unknown
For sure. Great questions. You're killing it with these questions. I guess. I see you.
[24:03]
Megan Ashley
Thanks. Practicing.
[24:04]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[24:07]
Unknown
The journey for me started in college. You know, a lot of my friends were walking away from the Lord, and, you know, I would ask them, hey, what. What's. What's that? Like, why are you walking away from the faith? Like, we missed you at church the other week. What's going on? And, you know, growing up in the Ethiopian church, the Ethiopian church is beautiful in so many ways. Like, I've learned how to, you know. You know, be led by the Spirit. We learn how to be hospitable from the Ethiopian church. We learn how to preach with the presence and the authority of God. Like, there is so many beautiful things.
[24:42]
Megan Ashley
I need to go to Ethiopia.
[24:43]
Unknown
You gotta come.
[24:44]
Megan Ashley
You need to be discipled by your dad. What's your dad doing?
[24:47]
Unknown
He's chilling now. He's in Florida.
[24:49]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[24:51]
Unknown
You should come, though.
[24:52]
Megan Ashley
It's a good time.
[24:53]
Unknown
I'm gonna come and. But the one thing I will say about the Ethiopian church that hurt my generation is that, you know, they would tell us, you know, don't get your ears pierced. Don't get tatted. You know, you can't get your hair braided or dreaded if you're a guy. And, you know, a lot of my friends in college were doing that. We're getting tatted. We're getting our ears pierced. We want to get our hair dreaded. And the church responded negatively to that. And a lot of my friends were like, you know, I love God, but I really.
[25:25]
Ebenezer
I don't.
[25:26]
Unknown
I don't feel welcomed. I don't feel seen. I don't feel like I could be myself. And I'm being told that my lifestyle is sinful. And by the. At that time, we weren't even really doing anything crazy.
[25:37]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[25:37]
Unknown
The craziest thing we were doing was getting tatted.
[25:40]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[25:40]
Unknown
And the church responded so negatively to that. And. And at the same time, I'm getting discipled in college, and I'm learning and reading my Bible, and I'm learning, no, it's not actually a sin to get a tattoo. And I'm trying to tell them that, but they're not listening. And I'm like, all right, how can I reach my friends? They won't come to church, but they'll listen to this conversation. Right? And so for me, and at the time, I had some friends that had a podcast, and they were averaging 30 views an episode. So I kid you not, Megan, I was like, if I can get 30 views an episode, oh, I'm winning. Yeah, I'm killing it. And then. And at that time, you know, I wasn't a pastor yet. I didn't have a ministry. I only had my friends. They were my ministry. And so my only aim was to reach them. Yeah, so we did, you know, we put out the first episode, and within 24 hours, we had over 240 views. And I was like, I don't even know that many. Like, where are these people coming from? And then I started to realize the problems that I was experiencing at home. My community was shared among other Ethiopian Christians across the nation. And people were resonating and people were identifying. And yeah, for me, it was just like, okay, how can I serve my community? That was it. It was first my friends, and then it became my community. And, you know, for us, I thought, like, man, the Ethiopian church has to get better at putting Christ before culture. And so I thought it was just a unique problem. And then 2020 hit, and I was like, oh, the American church does this too? For sure. Actually, it was 2016, but really, 2020 was very eye opening. But I was like, oh, we. And then I started looking around, I started having conversations with friends that weren't Ethiopian, didn't grow up in eth. Up in church. And I was like, oh, we all have this temptation to read our experiences into the text, to read our preferences into the text. And so a lot of the times what people have a problem with isn't the Christ of the Bible. It's the Christ in the culture of our churches.
[27:47]
Megan Ashley
Hello.
[27:47]
Unknown
And so I was like, oh, okay. So that. That kind of began the journey for that and so shaping the culture. I got this from Andy Crouch. He says we are notorious for condemning culture, for critiquing culture, for copying culture, but where are the Christians that are contributing to culture? And so for me, I realized how much culture was shaping our worldview. And even hindering our faith and our experiences with the Lord. So I was like, what would it look like if we actually, instead of being shaped by culture, shaped the culture with God's word?
[28:24]
Megan Ashley
I love that.
[28:25]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[28:26]
Megan Ashley
Been the biggest surprise, like, part of this journey of podcasting for eight years, I'm sure. And I'm sure the fact that podcasting is even a thing, as big as it is now, has probably been, like, a huge surprise for you because you've been doing it for so long and it's only really been a thing probably for the last five to six years.
[28:45]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[28:45]
Unknown
Where it started, really.
[28:47]
Megan Ashley
Yeah. 2020. Because everyone's bored. So everybody's on Amazon. Like, let me get a mic.
[28:51]
Ebenezer
Right, right.
[28:52]
Megan Ashley
Everybody's popping up their camera, camera, and they're like, talking, talking. But what's been the biggest maybe surprise that. That the Lord has done with. With within you, yourself and externally, with shaping the culture?
[29:08]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah.
[29:09]
Unknown
You know, the Lord has really used. You know, I started the podcast to try to serve my friends. I didn't anticipate how the Lord would use the podcast to serve me.
[29:20]
Ebenezer
I.
[29:20]
Unknown
Funny, it's crazy. It's like, what, Lord?
[29:23]
Megan Ashley
I did this for them and now you talking to me.
[29:26]
Unknown
You talking to me.
[29:28]
Megan Ashley
It's like, for sure. I'm sorry. Forgive me.
[29:35]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[29:35]
Unknown
I don't know who I thought I was, what I had.
[29:38]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[29:39]
Unknown
No, God is funny like that.
[29:41]
Megan Ashley
For sure. For sure.
[29:43]
Unknown
And it's just been a gift to bring on, like, artists and pastors and. And, you know, thinkers. And as I am asking questions and as they're giving their response, I'm being discipled, I'm being shepherded, I'm being taught, I'm learning. And a lot of. A lot of my spiritual formation I can say came as a result of the podcast. I was just privileged. I'm just humbled that the Lord would even open up doors to sit with guests that are smarter than me, way wiser than me, and to, like, you know, they think we're having a conversation. I'm low key, taking. For sure.
[30:26]
Megan Ashley
Like, I'm actually.
[30:28]
Unknown
I'm gonna use that on Sunday. That's good.
[30:33]
Megan Ashley
Say that again. Run that back.
[30:34]
Unknown
I'm about to tweet that.
[30:35]
Megan Ashley
For sure. For sure.
[30:38]
Unknown
So that's been the biggest blessing, is seeing the ways the Lord has used the POD to serve me. It's been kind of cool to, like, contribute to conversation. You know, we don't have, like, a big platform, but I, you know, when it comes to the Ethiopian Eritrean Christian community, for sure. People really are tapped into the podcast. And just seeing, you know, I would travel. I traveled doing, you know, different speaking engagements and just hearing the way people have been served, I'm like, wow, that conversation really helped your relationship with your mom. This conversation got you to read your Bible more. This conversation inspired you to come back to church. I remember the first podcast tour we did was in 2023, and our first stop was in Houston. And I remember after the show, this young lady came up to me and she said, hey, you don't. You don't know me, but a few years ago, I left the church because I was spiritually manipulated, and my discipler took advantage of me, and I really had a hard time with the church. I had a really hard time with God. And she said, just recently, the Lord has been meeting me again.
[31:58]
Ebenezer
Wow.
[31:58]
Unknown
And he's been speaking to me again. And she's like, I'm in a season now where I want to go back to church.
[32:04]
Ebenezer
Wow.
[32:04]
Unknown
But I'm scared, and I don't trust the church. And she said, this is the first Christian event I've been to in years. This is my first step coming back to church. And so she's like, do you have any advice on how to find a church, what to look for in a pastor? What are some green flags when it comes to. And I was like, God was so kind that he would use this live show in Houston.
[32:34]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[32:35]
Unknown
To encourage his daughter.
[32:36]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[32:37]
Unknown
To trust again.
[32:38]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[32:38]
Unknown
And that he would use it in her journey to come back to the church. And so that. That's the stuff that.
[32:46]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[32:46]
Unknown
I'm like, I see it. I see, Lord, what you're doing.
[32:48]
Megan Ashley
Those are. Those are always the. Those are always the. The moments. Because you want. You want the obedience to be enough.
[32:59]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[32:59]
Megan Ashley
And. And it should be. It's like the Lord tells you to do it, do it. Whether somebody says anything or regardless, whatever he tells you to do, do it. But those are the moments where. Just affirms.
[33:12]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[33:13]
Megan Ashley
That you're doing what the Lord is telling you to do and that you're in the right place and that you're doing, you know, that you are being obedient when you get those type of testimonies. And it's like, no matter how much the Lord increases this platform and no matter any of the. The invites that I've gotten or the guests that I get, like, I'm grateful for all of it. But it's those. It's those moments. It's those messages.
[33:39]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[33:39]
Megan Ashley
That make everything feel like, okay, God, I'm doing.
[33:44]
Ebenezer
Yes.
[33:44]
Megan Ashley
What you are calling me to do. Not because I'm on that platform, not because, you know whatever, but because someone knows you more.
[33:53]
Ebenezer
Yeah, that's it.
[33:54]
Megan Ashley
Because someone turn back to you so good. Because someone, like, like, said yes to you. Like, that's, that's the thing.
[34:03]
Ebenezer
Yeah, that's it.
[34:04]
Megan Ashley
That's the thing.
[34:05]
Unknown
That's it. My pastor used to always tell me, whenever God gives you favor with man, it's never that. It's never because he wants to use you to draw others to himself to you. It's because he wants to draw others to himself.
[34:16]
Megan Ashley
Yes.
[34:17]
Unknown
And learning that, like, this isn't about us. This is not about me. And every opportunity that we get is an opportunity to point people to Jesus, back to him. Because I got, I'm just another beggar.
[34:31]
Megan Ashley
Correct.
[34:32]
Unknown
Pointing to everyone where I get my bread from, for sure. That's it.
[34:36]
Megan Ashley
You know, Is that where you get your bread?
[34:38]
Ebenezer
Right.
[34:39]
Unknown
Right here?
[34:39]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[34:40]
Unknown
It's not here.
[34:41]
Megan Ashley
It's, I promise you, it's not here.
[34:43]
Unknown
It's not.
[34:44]
Megan Ashley
And that's one, that's the one consistent thing, like when we, when we come together to pray for the podcast. Because again, I just don't take this lightly. Like, I don't just jump on the mic and I was like, nah, like, lord, what do you want me to say? Like, what do you, what do you, you know, the people that are going to hear this. So I want my heart to be postured in that position, but I'm always praying, like, lord, use this to draw people to you.
[35:12]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[35:13]
Megan Ashley
Not to myself.
[35:14]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[35:15]
Megan Ashley
I don't want disciples of all. Megan.
[35:17]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[35:18]
Megan Ashley
I want disciples of Christ. Like, I want to make disciples of him, not, not myself.
[35:24]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah.
[35:24]
Megan Ashley
And I think that as a, as Christian content because, like, let's keep it real. Christian content is a thing right now.
[35:32]
Ebenezer
It is.
[35:32]
Unknown
It's a thing.
[35:33]
Megan Ashley
Like, people are changing.
[35:34]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[35:35]
Megan Ashley
Their platforms and so that it looks more.
[35:39]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[35:40]
Megan Ashley
Christian.
[35:41]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[35:41]
Megan Ashley
Right. And I, I think that as Christian content creators in whatever spectrum you're doing that in, I just think that if we're not mindful to equip people to know him and to rely on Him, Like, I don't want people to watch my podcast and they've had their fixed of Jesus for the day. Like, all right, that's, I've, I've done my Christian duty.
[36:09]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah.
[36:10]
Megan Ashley
You know, I've, I, I, it's like, I want to point people back to Him.
[36:15]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[36:15]
Megan Ashley
And I just think it's so important for, like, Christian content creators to do that.
[36:20]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[36:20]
Unknown
I know this is your pod, but I do have a question for you.
[36:23]
Megan Ashley
I knew you were gonna do this.
[36:24]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[36:25]
Unknown
Because, like, that's something that I have just watching you, even behind the scenes, been so encouraged by and so blessed by, is your heart is really to serve Him. And I just kind of want. As the Lord has, like, increased your platform, increased your influence, as he's, you know, reaching the masses through. In totality, how have you kept your heart there? Like, what. What does that look like for you to keep the main thing. The main thing.
[36:50]
Megan Ashley
I'm still. And I. Okay, a few things. I. I'm still in a place of awe of how he saved me. And so. And I pray that I'm. I never lose that.
[37:01]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[37:02]
Megan Ashley
Do you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm constantly reminding myself of what he saved me from.
[37:08]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[37:08]
Megan Ashley
And I'm constantly bringing myself to that moment on this porch where he revealed Himself to me in spite of how far my heart was from Him.
[37:17]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[37:17]
Megan Ashley
And I think. Reminding yourself of how much he saved you and how much he saved you from how merciful he's been. That's good, right? That's good. I. I constantly have that picture in my mind.
[37:30]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[37:30]
Megan Ashley
And so Romans 12. My reasonable response is to present myself as a living sacrifice. My reasonable response is, say, lord, you gave me this platform and I'm giving it right back. Here's the. Isaac, I'm giving it right back to you. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, I think it's the con. And this is what the Lord God was always telling the Israelites. Remember, remember, remember. David says, I will remember. Your Word works.
[37:53]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[37:54]
Megan Ashley
Right. And I think that's the thing. It's remembering that's good. How kind and merciful he was when I. When he didn't have to be.
[38:03]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[38:05]
Megan Ashley
It's remembering that. It's remembering the resurrection outside of Easter.
[38:11]
Ebenezer
Yeah, that's right.
[38:13]
Megan Ashley
Do you know what I'm saying? It's getting that picture that all of God's wrath was placed on the Lamb.
[38:20]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[38:21]
Megan Ashley
The innocent one, the spotless one.
[38:23]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[38:23]
Megan Ashley
The wrath that belongs to me.
[38:25]
Ebenezer
Yes.
[38:26]
Megan Ashley
Was placed on him.
[38:27]
Unknown
That's right.
[38:28]
Megan Ashley
And so I think that's the thing that's good. And I, like, I. I can't, I think. And even when I even went like this, the sabbatical that I was on, like, I had to take a sabbatical because I Could feel my heart not being postured right. And I like, as soon as my heart feels like it's way, you know, because the heart is just.
[38:50]
Unknown
It's wicked, you know?
[38:51]
Megan Ashley
And so as soon as I'm like, I'm like, I'm straight. I got a pot, you know, I got. In totality, it's straight.
[38:59]
Ebenezer
We do it like we are. Yeah.
[39:02]
Megan Ashley
God's like, oh, you think, you think I needed this platform?
[39:06]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[39:07]
Megan Ashley
You think I need. You think you're adding something to me? You can't add anything to God.
[39:13]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[39:15]
Megan Ashley
You can't. I cannot. Paul Washer says this, Ebenezer, and it is the quote I will live by. He said he's going to put it on his tombstone and I'm like, bet. Me too. He said, I contributed nothing to my salvation but my sins. And I've contributed nothing to my ministry but my weakness.
[39:31]
Ebenezer
That's it.
[39:31]
Megan Ashley
And that's it.
[39:32]
Unknown
That's it.
[39:33]
Megan Ashley
If you don't have that in your mind, like you. And you will forget that. The main thing is. The main thing. The main thing is him.
[39:39]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[39:40]
Unknown
That's it.
[39:40]
Megan Ashley
Ain't you?
[39:41]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[39:42]
Megan Ashley
It's just not.
[39:43]
Unknown
It's not.
[39:44]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[39:44]
Megan Ashley
And I. I think I've seen so much of it, even within myself where it's like, megan, Megan, if you're not mindful, you'll become the very thing that you hate.
[39:54]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[39:55]
Megan Ashley
If you're not mindful, you become the very thing that you criticize.
[39:57]
Unknown
So we're.
[39:58]
Megan Ashley
If you're not mindful.
[39:59]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[40:00]
Megan Ashley
It's real easy to point the finger and be like, well, yeah, check your heart.
[40:05]
Ebenezer
Yeah, sweetie. Yeah. Yeah.
[40:07]
Megan Ashley
You're just as prideful.
[40:08]
Unknown
Right.
[40:08]
Megan Ashley
It just shows up different.
[40:09]
Unknown
Right, right, right.
[40:11]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[40:11]
Megan Ashley
You're just as self centered. It shows up different. You think that you're adding to me and you can't.
[40:18]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[40:18]
Megan Ashley
I'm God.
[40:19]
Ebenezer
Yeah. Yeah.
[40:20]
Megan Ashley
Now go do what I told you to do.
[40:22]
Unknown
That's right.
[40:22]
Megan Ashley
Make the main thing. The main thing. I think that's what keeps me in check is just remembering what he saved me from. Remembering his kindness, his mercy, and remembering that all of the wrath that I deserved was placed on the one who was spotless.
[40:38]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[40:40]
Megan Ashley
Does that make sense?
[40:41]
Unknown
Makes perfect sense.
[40:42]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[40:42]
Unknown
I love that.
[40:43]
Megan Ashley
That's the thing.
[40:43]
Unknown
That's encouraging. I actually quoted Paul Washer in a sermon a couple weeks ago.
[40:47]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[40:47]
Unknown
I was reminding myself in our congregation that the only thing we contributed to our salvation was our sin.
[40:54]
Megan Ashley
That's it.
[40:55]
Unknown
If you want to know what you did in all of this. You messed up. That's like. That's what.
[41:01]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[41:02]
Unknown
And it's so beautiful because I also think about Moses and then Joshua, how Moses was so faithful. Moses was doing everything God asked him to do. He was a great leader. Signs and wonders followed him throughout his whole ministry. He struck a rock out of anger. Yeah. Out of anger. Yeah. That's actually what kind of did it.
[41:25]
Megan Ashley
That's what did it. That's why my man couldn't go to rock sleep.
[41:28]
Unknown
All right, guys, like, that's it. Wrap it up.
[41:30]
Megan Ashley
Wrap it up. I done told you about your anger. Now wrap up it.
[41:33]
Unknown
Yeah, wrap it up. And. But, like, what's so interesting is when he died, God only gave the Israelites a little bit of time to mourn. And then I got. All right, stop crying, Joshua. And I've always been like, yo, that's. That's it.
[41:54]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[41:54]
Unknown
After. Almost did. After all the sacrifices he made, after.
[41:59]
Megan Ashley
All the Israelites put him through.
[42:01]
Unknown
Yeah. And, like, the Lord was revealing to me that. That the story isn't about Moses.
[42:10]
Megan Ashley
Hello.
[42:11]
Unknown
It's about God.
[42:12]
Megan Ashley
Hello.
[42:12]
Unknown
And so Moses completed his assignment. The story goes on. So, Moses. Thank you.
[42:19]
Megan Ashley
Appreciate you.
[42:20]
Unknown
Now, on to Joshua.
[42:22]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[42:22]
Unknown
On to the next. And I. The Lord has just taught me, like, yo, that's. I have this little bit of time to be as faithful as I can. He's gonna use me in ways maybe I never expected him to use me. But there's coming a day it's like, all right, thank you.
[42:37]
Megan Ashley
Thank you.
[42:37]
Unknown
I don't need you anymore.
[42:39]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[42:39]
Unknown
My pastor used to always tell me, you got to stay responsible because you're replaceable. And so I've learned to be.
[42:46]
Megan Ashley
And we live in a culture where people tell you you're irreplaceable. You're. You know. And, yes, you are one of one.
[42:55]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[42:55]
Megan Ashley
But the way. And I've said this before, like, the way the Lord checked me with my false humility, which is pride.
[43:04]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[43:05]
Megan Ashley
Is this like, Megan, you are uniquely made, but you're not special.
[43:10]
Ebenezer
That's good.
[43:11]
Unknown
That's a word.
[43:12]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[43:12]
Megan Ashley
You are uniquely made. I took my time with you. I crafted you like I specific. I knew you before I placed you in your mother's womb, which means I cried. I designed you. And before I placed you and you, I knew you. Yeah, I know. The number of hairs on your head. You are so uniquely made, but you're not special.
[43:32]
Ebenezer
That's it.
[43:33]
Megan Ashley
I am God.
[43:34]
Unknown
That's it.
[43:36]
Megan Ashley
I'm the main character here.
[43:38]
Unknown
That's it.
[43:38]
Megan Ashley
This is not your story.
[43:39]
Unknown
No, not at all.
[43:40]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[43:41]
Megan Ashley
This is not your story. You play a part in God's, but it's God's story.
[43:45]
Unknown
It's God's story. Was it Frances Chan talked about, like, we're the extras.
[43:49]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[43:50]
Unknown
In the scene. Yeah, that's it. That's it.
[43:52]
Megan Ashley
Yeah, that's it. I think it was. Gosh. What's his name? Skip. I forget how to say his last name. First name is Skip. I've listened to a lot of his sermons, but he was talking about how, like. Especially, like, in Romans 12, where it talks about, like, don't think too highly of yourself.
[44:09]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[44:09]
Megan Ashley
But also, don't think too lowly. Like, be reasonable. Have a sober mind.
[44:13]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[44:14]
Megan Ashley
Like, know yourself in context of how God says who you are, who God says that you are.
[44:19]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[44:20]
Megan Ashley
But it's like the knife never gets. He was talking about, like, a. In a surgery, it's like the knife never gets the praise because the knife doesn't do anything. It's the instrument.
[44:31]
Ebenezer
It's good.
[44:32]
Megan Ashley
The knife is just the instrument that opens the body to do the work, but it's the surgeon that's doing the cutting. It's the surgeon that's doing the work.
[44:40]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[44:40]
Megan Ashley
God is the surgeon. We are the knife. Like, we're just a tool.
[44:44]
Unknown
Right, right, right, right, right, right, right.
[44:45]
Megan Ashley
And I think that we have got to have a sober perspective of who we are in light of who he is. You are not God.
[44:55]
Unknown
Yeah, not at all.
[44:57]
Ebenezer
Not at all.
[44:58]
Megan Ashley
Newsflash.
[44:59]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[45:00]
Unknown
I remember it was a few years ago when we had just planted the church. We're building out a set, and my cousin, he has a son who at the time was just two years of age. And we're running around, we're, like, building things. We're putting things up. We're painting. And his name is Zay. Zay wanted to help. He's, like, running around. And truth be told, Megan, he was making our job more difficult for sure. I was like, bro, I need you to sit down right here because you're taking. You're making our job go longer. If you just sit right here, we'll get to this quicker. And I remember I was telling my cousin, I was like, yo, get your son, bro. And I was so convicted after that, because in the moment, God's like, yeah, you're zay. Like, you make the job messier. You make the job go longer.
[45:50]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[45:50]
Unknown
I don't. I don't need you trying to do my work. Trying to do the Bible says in Genesis, in the beginning, God created the heavens and earth with a word.
[46:01]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[46:02]
Unknown
And he. And I think he needs. He needs me with a word. He created the ocean. Until this day, we still don't know the depth of the sea.
[46:14]
Megan Ashley
I'm like, do y' all not get that?
[46:15]
Ebenezer
Yeah. Yeah.
[46:16]
Megan Ashley
We know more about space than we do with what's on our planet.
[46:21]
Unknown
That's it.
[46:22]
Megan Ashley
That is scary.
[46:23]
Unknown
Crazy. Crazy. And he did that with the Word. And who am I to think that I have something to offer him?
[46:30]
Megan Ashley
I think it's like. I think we think that our gifts.
[46:35]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[46:36]
Megan Ashley
Are like, it's so prideful, man. I. I don't even know about, like, it's just so prideful that you think that the gift that God gave you, that you are doing some type of favor by what was freely given to you.
[46:51]
Unknown
Right, right, right, right.
[46:53]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[46:54]
Megan Ashley
This was given to you freely. And. And, like, one thing that I have been praying a lot because our church did a fast, and it was, like, transformative for me, but it was like, something. As we were going through this fast, I was listening a lot of Stephanie Gretzinger because she's just fantastic. I love her. I could talk. I could her, like, I would love to talk to her one day. She just. She's weepy. Like me. Like, I'm always crying. But she was just like, you know, is it really a sacrifice? When you think about it, whatever he's telling you to give, that's good, you know, even. And I told you, like, the context of everything that I want to kind of build this platform on, especially this season, is Romans 12. But it's like, that's why Paul is saying, this is your reasonable service. There is. There should be no other response.
[47:50]
Ebenezer
That's it.
[47:51]
Megan Ashley
Than to say yes to him.
[47:53]
Ebenezer
That's it.
[47:54]
Megan Ashley
Because when you look at what Paul is saying, from Romans 1 all the way through 11 up into 12, what other response do you have?
[48:01]
Unknown
That's it.
[48:02]
Ebenezer
That's it. Yeah.
[48:04]
Megan Ashley
Is it really a sacrifice?
[48:07]
Ebenezer
Yeah, Yeah.
[48:08]
Megan Ashley
I, I, I don't know. I'm like, I don't know what we're missing.
[48:13]
Unknown
Okay, can we. Can we riff on Romans 12:1 real quick?
[48:15]
Megan Ashley
For sure.
[48:16]
Unknown
I just. Because you're. My mind is spinning.
[48:20]
Megan Ashley
For sure.
[48:21]
Unknown
Romans 12. I'm gonna just read verses one and two. So he says, therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God. This is your true and proper worship. And to Your point, chapters one through 11, he's giving them the gospel. What is sin? How does sin enter? Where does righteousness come in? All right, now that we are now righteous based off obeying or believing what God says, does that mean we continue to go on sinning? He's like, no, by no means. Romans 6. And then Paul's like, but I do the things I don't want to do, and I don't. And so he's. But there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. So he just, like, breaking it down. And I love how Paul says in view of that.
[49:14]
Megan Ashley
Yes. He doesn't say in view of the.
[49:16]
Unknown
Of the mercies.
[49:17]
Megan Ashley
Mercies.
[49:19]
Unknown
He doesn't say in view of your bank account, in view of your relationship status, in view of your title. Because I think a lot of our worship is circumstantial because it's in view of the way our week went and not in view of what he's done for me on the cross.
[49:35]
Megan Ashley
And. And that alone.
[49:37]
Unknown
And that alone.
[49:38]
Megan Ashley
And that alone.
[49:39]
Unknown
And if that is what makes you worship, you will always have a reason to worship. Always. But we are up and down in our worship because it's not in view of the mercy. It's in view of our season.
[49:52]
Megan Ashley
It's in view of. Of what's convenient for us. It's in view of what makes us feel good.
[49:57]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[49:57]
Megan Ashley
But again, before you were ever placed on this earth, he was deserving of all of it.
[50:03]
Unknown
All of it. All of it.
[50:04]
Megan Ashley
Before he ever gave you a breath.
[50:07]
Ebenezer
Come on.
[50:08]
Megan Ashley
He was deserving of all of it.
[50:11]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah.
[50:12]
Megan Ashley
Before he ever gave you a platform, before he ever gave you a following, before he ever gave you a man, children, a job, money, car. He was deserving of all of it.
[50:22]
Unknown
Every single thing.
[50:23]
Megan Ashley
Because of what he did on that cross.
[50:25]
Ebenezer
Yes.
[50:25]
Megan Ashley
And that's what I'm saying. If we don't keep a proper perspective and remembering.
[50:31]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[50:32]
Megan Ashley
Not just remembering what he's done for you in the context of what he's done while you've been on this earth. Yeah, Right. But just in the context of what he did on the cross.
[50:44]
Ebenezer
That's it. That's it.
[50:46]
Megan Ashley
That's it.
[50:47]
Ebenezer
Yeah. Yeah.
[50:48]
Unknown
And what I love. I mean, you were talking about sacrifice and worship, and it's so beautiful. There's this. When you. In hermeneutics, there's this thing called law. First mention. And with law of first mention, all it is, it teaches us that whenever you see the word pop up for the first time, that is the most accurate depiction of that word. And the first time the word worship enters into our Bibles is when Abraham is going to sacrifice Isaac. So remember, he like, tells his servant, stay right here. We're gonna go do some things and we'll come back. And the servant asks, where are you going? What are you doing? And Abraham says, I'm going to worship. That's the first time the word worship appears.
[51:30]
Megan Ashley
That's so good.
[51:31]
Unknown
But he's going to sacrifice Isaac. Right. And so a lot of the times I've. The Lord has really rocked me in this, and he's doing a work in me in this. But worship isn't singing my favorite worship song.
[51:43]
Megan Ashley
Yeah, yeah.
[51:44]
Unknown
Worship is actually laying down not even sin. Laying down the promise.
[51:49]
Megan Ashley
Yes.
[51:51]
Unknown
He wasn't even sacrificing anything evil or bad. He was. He was giving up the very thing that was promised to him.
[51:59]
Megan Ashley
Yes.
[51:59]
Unknown
And he named that worship.
[52:00]
Megan Ashley
Yes.
[52:01]
Unknown
And I'm just like, all right, Lord. That's. That's different. So in Romans 12, then when he says, this is your true worship. True worship.
[52:10]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[52:11]
Unknown
What he's getting at is he's not saying, sing some songs in light of Romans 1 through 11.
[52:18]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[52:19]
Unknown
Because as you know, the rest of Romans 12, he's going to tell us how to live. That's worship. Forgiving one another, bearing with one another.
[52:26]
Megan Ashley
Like honoring one another. Yeah. Serving all of it.
[52:29]
Unknown
It takes a level of death. It takes a level of sacrifice in order to. And then when it is, when we're forgiving our neighbors, where God's like, ah, that's worship right there.
[52:38]
Megan Ashley
That's worship.
[52:39]
Unknown
That's worship.
[52:39]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah.
[52:41]
Unknown
And not to say worship song. I mean, worship songs are an expression of our worship, but it's not worship in and of itself.
[52:47]
Megan Ashley
Yes.
[52:48]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[52:48]
Megan Ashley
And I think. I think even when you are worshiping, like when you're at church and you're worshiping. Right. If you're not living your true worship, then what you are experiencing is emotionalism.
[53:05]
Unknown
Okay.
[53:06]
Megan Ashley
The songs are just good. It's tickling your emotions because you didn't. Living it is different.
[53:13]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[53:14]
Megan Ashley
Because that will. Then. Then when you're worshiping, it comes from an overflow of the true worship that you lived. Monday through Saturday.
[53:23]
Unknown
That's it. That's it.
[53:24]
Megan Ashley
But if you're not doing your true worship, your reasonable service Monday through Saturday, what you're experiencing is emotionalism. Because guess what? As soon as that song's over, them tears dry up, you walk out, and you're the same you. You walk out. You're still mad. You Pick up your attitude right where you left off, right in the car.
[53:43]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[53:45]
Megan Ashley
Right? But when there is a reasonable service that is worked out Monday through Saturday, there's. There's an overflow of it.
[53:53]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[53:53]
Megan Ashley
And guess what? Regardless if your favorite worship leader is on the platform or not, regardless if they're singing your favorite song, because there's an overflow from what you have lived Monday through Saturday, your hands are lifted. Regard. Like, you're not waiting for someone to invoke an emotion out of you. You're already there.
[54:12]
Ebenezer
You're there.
[54:13]
Megan Ashley
I've worshiped all week.
[54:14]
Unknown
All week. Literally.
[54:16]
Megan Ashley
I've been worshiping all week.
[54:17]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[54:18]
Megan Ashley
Sunday isn't the first time I worship.
[54:19]
Unknown
Come on, Megan.
[54:20]
Megan Ashley
I've worshiped all week.
[54:22]
Ebenezer
Yeah. Yeah.
[54:22]
Megan Ashley
I've outdone with somebody in honor.
[54:24]
Unknown
I've.
[54:25]
Megan Ashley
I've. I've forgiven. I have done good to my neighbor. I have served.
[54:29]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[54:30]
Megan Ashley
Yeah, Right. That's worship.
[54:33]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah.
[54:34]
Megan Ashley
Not you getting you waiting for somebody to hit a good run. And it's like.
[54:41]
Unknown
Wait till the bridge comes. Wait till the bridge comes.
[54:43]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[54:45]
Unknown
No, not at all.
[54:46]
Ebenezer
Yeah. Yeah.
[54:47]
Unknown
That's a word, Megan. That's a word.
[54:49]
Megan Ashley
Nah.
[54:49]
Ebenezer
Yeah, Yeah.
[54:50]
Megan Ashley
I. I've been. I've even been convicted about the Lord being like, nah, don't even wait till you get to church. Because even Sundays, it's like, oh, well, I'm gonna go to church. I don't need to pray. No, get before me before you even get to church.
[55:03]
Unknown
Worship before worship.
[55:04]
Megan Ashley
Worship before worship.
[55:06]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[55:06]
Unknown
That's good.
[55:07]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[55:08]
Megan Ashley
Pray for your. Pray for your pastor before you go to church.
[55:11]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[55:12]
Megan Ashley
How. How much are we. How many times are we praying for our pastors? How often are we praying for our worship leaders? How often are we praying for our parking lot volunteers?
[55:23]
Ebenezer
That's it. Yeah.
[55:24]
Megan Ashley
Our children's ministry volunteers. Yeah.
[55:26]
Ebenezer
That's good. Yeah, yeah.
[55:28]
Unknown
And that prepares your heart even. It's like when you're in the car ride listening to worship, praying. You're. You're. You're creating an atmosphere for expectation.
[55:38]
Megan Ashley
Yes.
[55:38]
Unknown
Like, okay, it's not even about me anymore.
[55:41]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[55:42]
Unknown
You start praying for your pastor, the parking lot volunteers. You realize, like, church isn't set up to serve you. It's not about you.
[55:50]
Megan Ashley
It's not about.
[55:51]
Unknown
It's about him.
[55:52]
Megan Ashley
It's about him.
[55:53]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[55:55]
Unknown
You might go and the pastor might give a word. That is irrelevant to your season. Are you still going to worship?
[56:01]
Megan Ashley
Hello.
[56:02]
Unknown
It's not hello. The Sermon isn't about you.
[56:04]
Megan Ashley
Hello.
[56:04]
Unknown
The sermon is supposed to get you to see Christ. And if what you see that day isn't applicable to your season, just put in your back pocket. You're going to need it one day.
[56:13]
Megan Ashley
You sure is.
[56:15]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[56:15]
Megan Ashley
You're going to need it at some point.
[56:17]
Ebenezer
That's it. That's it.
[56:18]
Megan Ashley
I think we. It's just like, take yourself out of the center of your life.
[56:23]
Ebenezer
Good.
[56:24]
Unknown
That's good. That's good.
[56:26]
Megan Ashley
He wants to be the center of everything.
[56:29]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[56:30]
Megan Ashley
It's not about you.
[56:31]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[56:33]
Unknown
Never.
[56:34]
Megan Ashley
It's just not.
[56:34]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[56:35]
Megan Ashley
It's not about how you feel. It's not about what you want. It's not about. It's about him, period.
[56:43]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah.
[56:44]
Megan Ashley
We were created for him. By him.
[56:47]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[56:48]
Megan Ashley
That's it.
[56:48]
Ebenezer
That's it.
[56:49]
Megan Ashley
You aren't created for. By him. For you.
[56:54]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[56:54]
Megan Ashley
Like, thanks for creating me. I got it. I'm gonna do my, you know. No.
[56:58]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah.
[56:59]
Megan Ashley
And that's why this has been, like, a thing for me.
[57:01]
Ebenezer
That's good. That's good.
[57:02]
Unknown
Yeah. I heard somebody once say that you were saved from God. By God. For God.
[57:10]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[57:12]
Unknown
So for sure. Saved starts with him. It ends with him.
[57:16]
Megan Ashley
For sure.
[57:17]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[57:17]
Megan Ashley
I was telling them the other day that, again, Paul Washer has just been like, my guy.
[57:22]
Unknown
Oh, yeah, he's that guy.
[57:24]
Megan Ashley
Obviously somebody told me. I don't know who it was that I was telling. I was listening to Paul Washer. They're like, you love intense preaching. They like Philip Mitchell Washer.
[57:33]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[57:34]
Megan Ashley
But I was. I. I love Timothy Keller, too. And he's not intense. He's very soft and, like, practical and gentle. But Paul Washer is my guy, bro. He has this series. You need to watch it. He has like. Like, I don't know if it's going to be a five part because he said, I'm on part four right now. But he's been preaching at this prison.
[57:50]
Ebenezer
Okay.
[57:51]
Megan Ashley
And it's been so good. Like, it's fantastic. I think there might be like a five part coming up. But anyway, he was talking about how God's. How with one hand God is extending his. His mercy, and with the other hand he's restraining his wrath.
[58:08]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[58:09]
Megan Ashley
And I'm like, if we can get an accurate picture of that, you will live differently.
[58:14]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[58:15]
Megan Ashley
Because there's going to come a day where he's not going to restrain his wrath. He's going to unleash it.
[58:22]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[58:22]
Megan Ashley
And all of creation is going to celebrate the Wrath.
[58:27]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[58:28]
Megan Ashley
That he's going to unleash on all who chose not right to receive him.
[58:32]
Ebenezer
Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah.
[58:35]
Megan Ashley
And just think about the. The control, the restraint that you have to have, all at the same time extending so much mercy.
[58:43]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[58:44]
Megan Ashley
For centuries upon centuries.
[58:46]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[58:47]
Megan Ashley
I think you would live differently when you wouldn't center yourself so much. You would worship before worship.
[58:55]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[58:57]
Megan Ashley
You wouldn't be looking for a reason.
[58:59]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[59:00]
Megan Ashley
Outside of the cross.
[59:02]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[59:03]
Megan Ashley
To give him what is rightfully his.
[59:07]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's good.
[59:10]
Unknown
You know, Jesus asks his disciples, who do people say that I am? Some say you're John the Baptist. Some say you're Elijah. And then Jesus actually, like, points to Peter. He's like, who do you say that I am? And the Bible says Peter responded back by revealing that he is the Christ, the Messiah, the son of the living God. And Jesus is like, well, blood and flesh didn't reveal this to you, but my Father in heaven revealed this to you. And then he goes on to say, and you are Peter the rock, and on you I will build my church. And I've always found it fascinating that Peter didn't get a revelation of who he was until God gave him a revelation of who Jesus was.
[59:55]
Megan Ashley
Hello.
[59:56]
Unknown
And I think so often when we're making it about ourselves, we miss out on life altogether.
[60:01]
Megan Ashley
Man, that's so good.
[60:02]
Unknown
But it isn't until we actually have a revelation of who Jesus is that. That we can have somewhat of an understanding of who we are and what our calling is. And I think that's been. My whole thing is like, lord, I know that if I find you, I'll find myself.
[60:15]
Megan Ashley
Yep.
[60:16]
Unknown
I know if I see you, I'll find myself.
[60:17]
Megan Ashley
It's that double knowledge.
[60:18]
Unknown
It's the double knowledge.
[60:19]
Megan Ashley
It's the double knowledge. Knowing him, you know yourself.
[60:22]
Ebenezer
That's it. That's it.
[60:23]
Unknown
I think it was A.W. tozer. You said the most important thing about you is what you think to what you think about God. Because what you think about God reveals how you think about life and friendship and family and vocation and find, like, all of that. Right?
[60:37]
Megan Ashley
Yes.
[60:38]
Unknown
Miss God, you actually miss life.
[60:39]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[60:40]
Unknown
And I think so often when we're making it about ourselves and we're centering ourselves, we're not just missing Christ. We're missing the meaning of life.
[60:47]
Megan Ashley
Yeah. I. I want to ask you this because this is an experience that I've been having, and I'm curious of what your thoughts are on this, because I think what my experience is, and I'm sure this probably keeps people from knowing God, which could be a tactic, which I think is a tactic of the enemy. Because what I'm finding out is the more I know about God, the more he's exposing sin in me.
[61:16]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[61:17]
Megan Ashley
And so it's like, yeah, dang. Like, I thought I would feel better knowing you. Right. Like, I feel like I, like I thought I would be. Like, I would feel better the more I know you. And, and, and in a way, yes, I know you, but in knowing Him, I'm also seeing myself.
[61:36]
Unknown
That's right.
[61:37]
Megan Ashley
And I think that I want to just maybe help give people some wisdom or encouragement because I don't want people to. At the end of the day, this podcast is for people to know him more and to. So for you to leave this podcast and go seek the Lord. Right. And in seeking him and knowing him, you are going to see some things about yourself and they may not be pretty.
[62:00]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[62:01]
Megan Ashley
And I don't want that to discourage people because it is a kindness of the Lord for Him to even reveal your sin to you.
[62:09]
Unknown
That's good.
[62:10]
Megan Ashley
That is a kindness.
[62:12]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[62:12]
Megan Ashley
Because it is the enemy that doesn't want you to see your sin or see that you have sin. Right. Because then you won't confess it.
[62:20]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah.
[62:21]
Megan Ashley
Right. And it keeps you away from Him.
[62:23]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[62:24]
Megan Ashley
Because God is angry. The Bible says he's angry at the wicked.
[62:27]
Unknown
Right, right, right.
[62:28]
Megan Ashley
Every day.
[62:29]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[62:29]
Megan Ashley
Right. And so I, I, there's, I, I don't, I just wanted to hear what your thoughts are on that, because I know for me, they're even in knowing God, even doing this platform, I mean, this was during my sabbatical. It's like, dang, I know him more, but I am seeing some like, like, I'm not liking me. And I think it's like, you wanna, you know, people want to know God and like themselves. And there, there comes a time where it's like, the more I know of him, it's like, I don't really, you know, I don't really like me. It's not to stay there.
[63:00]
Unknown
No, no, no.
[63:01]
Megan Ashley
Right. It's to confess and give it to the Lord so that he can clean you out and work out some things in your heart. But, yeah, I just kind of want to know what your thoughts were on that.
[63:10]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[63:10]
Unknown
And I think it's a sign of growth. Right. I think that as you get closer to the light, the darkness gets exposed. And the beautiful thing about Jesus is he never exposes us to condemn us. He always exposes us to Redeem us.
[63:24]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[63:24]
Unknown
And so. So it's so natural that as you get closer to him, the Lord's like, all right, I know you thought you had a grip on your pride, but let me show you how pride shows up in this area. And I'm going to walk with you, and I'm going to get that out of you. I'm going to uproot that out of you. And I think, for me, I think about Romans 3:23 says, it's his kindness that leads us to repentance. There's a time where Peter was out on the boat trying to catch fish. He's not catching a thing. Jesus gets on and he's like, hey, Peter, throw your net on the other side. So he throws his net on the other side. The Bible says he caught so much fish that the nets began to rip. They bring it up on the boat. There was so much fish, the boat began to sink. And I've always been fascinated by Peter's response because he sees the blessing, and then he turns to Jesus and says, get away from me. I'm a sinner.
[64:23]
Megan Ashley
I'm not worthy. Yeah.
[64:24]
Unknown
I'm not worthy. And I've always wondered, what about this blessing revealed to Peter his sin? And I think that that's how God is always moving. It's when he reveals his goodness.
[64:39]
Megan Ashley
Yes. Isaiah 6.
[64:41]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[64:42]
Unknown
When you saw him, he sees him.
[64:44]
Megan Ashley
And then he sees him himself.
[64:46]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[64:47]
Megan Ashley
It's like as soon as you see the Lord, you are immediately exposed.
[64:52]
Unknown
Immediately, immediately, immediately.
[64:54]
Megan Ashley
And I just don't want people to be intimidated by that. That. That process, because it's not to condemn you again. I'm so glad that you brought up that scripture. It is his kindness that allows you to see it so that it can lead you to repentance.
[65:09]
Unknown
That's right.
[65:10]
Megan Ashley
Because the. The ultimate goal from beginning is God redeeming us back to Himself.
[65:16]
Unknown
That's so good.
[65:17]
Megan Ashley
That's. That was the whole thing.
[65:18]
Ebenezer
It.
[65:18]
Megan Ashley
It's redemption, reconciliation. That's it. That's all he was looking for from the beginning, is to be one.
[65:26]
Unknown
That's it.
[65:26]
Megan Ashley
With, like. That's. That's what we want. That's what he wanted, is for us to be with Him.
[65:31]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[65:31]
Megan Ashley
And so I just don't want people to be discouraged, because the more you know God. Yes. The more you will see.
[65:38]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[65:40]
Megan Ashley
Your stuff.
[65:41]
Unknown
Your stuff.
[65:41]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[65:42]
Unknown
And that's a good thing.
[65:42]
Megan Ashley
You want a great thing.
[65:44]
Unknown
Because if you want to be like Christ, well, you can't be like Christ until you see yourself. For who you really are. Yeah, yeah. God always shows you who you are. It's like when you. When you're, like, on the road and, you know, you're putting in your destination and your gps. The GPS doesn't just need your final destination. It also needs your current location so that it can direct you to where you're trying to go. And in the same way, you can't just put in where you want to go. You have to acknowledge where you are in order to get to where you need to go to. And so there's no shame in the game, in your game, by revealing, hey, I want to be more humble, but this is where I'm at in my pride, you know, I want to be more pure. This is where I'm at with my lust, so on and so forth. And so.
[66:29]
Megan Ashley
That's good.
[66:30]
Ebenezer
Yeah, that's good.
[66:31]
Megan Ashley
What's one thing you feel is needed for the culture today? Like, what's. What are some ways that Christians can contribute to shaping our culture? Like, what's needed right now?
[66:45]
Unknown
That's such a big question.
[66:46]
Megan Ashley
I know.
[66:48]
Unknown
I think we need more humility. I think we need humility as we approach the Word.
[66:52]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[66:53]
Unknown
I think we come into the Word with our own preconceived notions, our own experiences, our baggage, and we're not looking at the Word as it is, but we're looking at it from a lens that is broken.
[67:06]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[67:07]
Unknown
I think we need more emotional intelligence. I think in order to speak to culture, you got to know culture, and I think that it's both ends. You got to exegete the text, and you got to exegete the culture at the same time. And I think sometimes Christians are notorious for answering questions that nobody's asking. And I think we're answering questions nobody's asking because we're not emotionally intelligent. We don't have a pulse on culture.
[67:36]
Megan Ashley
Wow.
[67:36]
Unknown
I think about Nehemiah before he, like, rebuilt the wall. He took a day to scope out the land. He looked around and saw what the damage was. He didn't just come in and I'm gonna save the day.
[67:46]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[67:47]
Unknown
He's like, what. What's truly the problem here? Like, what do we. He was examining the problem before offering the solution. And I think as Christians, we. We have the solution. We know the solution. It's Jesus. It always has been, it always will be. But in order to contextualize Jesus, we have to be aware of our culture and where we are and where we are. And so knowing His Word. Right. There's gotta be A humility in approaching His Word, but then a humility in approaching culture. We gotta know the times that we're in.
[68:15]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[68:16]
Unknown
I think about the sons of Hisakar in the old test. I think it's in Judges something. I don't know the exact address, but. Or I think it's First Chronicles, actually. But they were able to serve Israel because they had the ability to discern where they were culturally. And I think that in order to shape culture, you've got to know it. And I think part of the way you know it is by loving it.
[68:42]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[68:43]
Unknown
John 3:16. For God so loved the world that he. So what moved Jesus to come down was his love for us. And so if we're trying to fix culture without loving culture, I think we're going to be in trouble.
[68:57]
Megan Ashley
Yeah. I think when what that brings up for me is like, again, I feel like the Lord is really. For me at least, it's like drawing everything back and kind of go back to the basics, because we talked about that. It's like you're asking for God to do more when you haven't done the basics. And so hearing you say that, like. Like how to shape the culture is knowing God, knowing His Word, loving His Word, Loving Him.
[69:30]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[69:31]
Megan Ashley
And loving his people. It's like, that's the greatest commandment.
[69:33]
Unknown
Yeah, that's it.
[69:34]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[69:34]
Megan Ashley
It's like when the disciples says, what are what out of all the commandments, what are the greatest? He said, love the Lord your God, with all your heart, all your mind, all your soul. Love your neighbor as yourself.
[69:44]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[69:45]
Megan Ashley
You know what I mean?
[69:46]
Ebenezer
Yeah, yeah.
[69:46]
Megan Ashley
From the beginning, he even says that in Deuteronomy. God, those. Tells them like. Like this commandment. Keep it. Write it down. Put it on your doorpost. Tell it when you're walking around, when you're sitting down, Tell it to your children. Love God with all your heart, all your mind, all your soul.
[70:03]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[70:03]
Megan Ashley
And then love your neighbor. And I think if we can make those the staple in everything that we do.
[70:09]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[70:10]
Megan Ashley
I'm gonna love God with all that I have.
[70:13]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[70:13]
Megan Ashley
With all of my heart, all of my mind, all of my soul. I'm gonna love His Word. I'm gonna love his commands, and I'm gonna love people.
[70:22]
Ebenezer
Yeah. Yeah.
[70:24]
Megan Ashley
I'm gonna make those things. The main things.
[70:26]
Ebenezer
Yeah. Yeah.
[70:27]
Megan Ashley
Before trying to do anything else.
[70:28]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[70:29]
Megan Ashley
I'm going to make those. The foundations.
[70:32]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[70:33]
Megan Ashley
And I think that that would change a lot of how. Yeah. How we witness. I think it would change our witness.
[70:41]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[70:41]
Unknown
It says Love covers a multitude of sins.
[70:43]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[70:44]
Unknown
Right. It's like, it's hard to be jealous of somebody you love.
[70:46]
Ebenezer
Love.
[70:47]
Unknown
It's hard to steal from somebody you love.
[70:49]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[70:49]
Unknown
And so I think that we. We have a love problem. A love for God and love for people.
[70:54]
Megan Ashley
Yeah.
[70:55]
Unknown
So well said.
[70:56]
Megan Ashley
That's good.
[70:56]
Unknown
Yeah, that's good.
[70:57]
Megan Ashley
Did you want to add anything else for the people before we. Pastor Ebenezer?
[71:01]
Unknown
No, thank you. That's crazy. No, I appreciate you, and I so love what you're doing with this podcast and even your heart, like, for real. You're an amazing podcaster, but you have a heart of gold. And you love so well. You love so well.
[71:17]
Megan Ashley
And so I'm loving better, but thank you. I'm trying to love better.
[71:20]
Unknown
No, you're doing great.
[71:21]
Megan Ashley
Thank you.
[71:22]
Unknown
Seriously.
[71:22]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[71:22]
Unknown
I always enjoy time with you, so.
[71:24]
Ebenezer
Yeah.
[71:24]
Unknown
Thank you for the opportunity. This is fun. This is a good time.
[71:26]
Megan Ashley
I have to have you back. I would love to have you back. Make sure you guys check out Shaping the Culture with Ebenezer. It's been going on eight years. He's a vet in the game. Listen, all you Christian content creators, make sure you're. He asked the best questions. If you want to learn about the Lord, you want to learn about God's word in the context of. Of what's happening in culture. If you want to learn how to be a better interviewer, because some of y' all need help, please check out Ebenezer, his podcast. Make sure you follow him on all platforms. We'll have all the information in the description. Follow him, Follow what he's doing. He's amazing. And thank you guys for joining us for another episode and we'll see you next week. What's up, you guys? I hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you so much for listening and I hope you felt encouraged in some way. Be sure to like and follow into Tality podcast everywhere you listen to your favorite shows. Follow Into Tality on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and be sure to turn on your post notifications so that you can be the first to listen whenever there's a new episode.