← Jay'sAnalysis
Jay'sAnalysis
Alien Anarchy w/The Collins Brothers - Out of This World 87
02:30:52
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- [00:01]
A
When it's time to scale your business, it's time for Shopify. Get everything you need to grow the way you want. Like all the way. Stack more sales with the best converting checkout on the planet. Track your cha chings from every channel right in one spot. And turn real time reporting into big time opportunities. Take your business to a whole new level. Switch to Shopify. Start your free trial today. Wallet feeling extra light after the holidays? Yeah, same. But recovery starts right now with TikTok Slash and Free. Here's how it works. Pick the products you want in TikTok, shop, share the link and watch the price drop all the way to zero. No tricks, no catch, just free stuff with free shipping. Download TikTok, search, slide, slash free and start slashing today. Welcome back. I have the Super Collins Brothers here for you tonight. Not Super Mario Brothers, it's Super Collins Brothers. And they have some of the best literature on UFOs. So I think it's going to be Alien Summer again. I know Jay and I did that a couple years ago where we went through all of the invasion movies and Fourth of July, like E.T. movies and we called it Alien Summer. But it's popping off now and you guys have one of the best resources on like UFOs, aliens and the whole thing. So why don't you go ahead and hold up that book. I wish I had a copy here with me. It's at our other place. But Invoking the Beyond is what it's called and this is probably. I hear about this all the time and it's one of the best resources on aliens and UFOs and I think that's going to be the topic of the summer. So welcome guys. How are you?
- [01:55]
B
Hey, thank you so much, Jamie. Thanks for having us on.
- [01:58]
C
Thank you for having us on.
- [01:59]
A
Yeah. So I think Jay reminded me that you guys were one of his first interviews.
- [02:05]
B
Yeah, yeah, as a matter of fact.
- [02:08]
C
Yeah, I remember I first became familiar with Jay. Golly. That was years ago. I had published an article that I would later on expand into our first book, the Ascendancy of the Scientific Dictatorship. And it was covering the occult, the occult roots of Darwinism. And Jay posted it on his Nicene Truth website at the time. I think that was what the name of his website was at the time. And I just messaged him to let him know, you know, hey, I appreciate you, uh, spreading the word and you know, and uh, letting people know about the article. And uh, yeah, went from there and uh, we did a few interviews and you know, now here we are years later. And yeah, it, it's, it's, it's been a wild ride. But it, it's, it was really, it was really a, you know, great of Jay to, to, you know, to disseminate our work like that. And it's, he still does. I think he tweeted out something about an older interview that we did over the topic of, uh, the uh, UFO, uh, deception, the UFOs as a terrestrial manipulation today on, uh, Twitter.
- [03:27]
A
And not only do you guys have that book, but we are also promoting the new edition of our research anthology by the Cultural Engineering Studies, or Decoding Culture Foundation, I should say is the website and their publication is Cultural Engineering Studies. I have a article in the first edition about Mary Poppins. I was pretty busy for the second one. But the third one, I have an article about Pinocchio. And you guys have two, part one and part two articles about automated auto theism, transhumanism and the technological transposition of divinity. Did I get that right?
- [04:10]
B
You did. Okay.
- [04:13]
A
And this is going to go really good with the show that we just did with Brett Carollo. And we're going to get Thomas Miller on here too. So it's going to be all about these great publications for the next couple weeks. But before we get into the transhumanism, I just kind of wanted talk a little bit about current alien events. Now, did you guys see the new picture that Donald Trump posted with him and alien?
- [04:41]
B
No, Phil. Yeah, yeah, I did.
- [04:44]
C
Let me pull quite.
- [04:47]
A
Okay, so here is one of them. Him and this buff looking like he works out, right. This alien.
- [05:01]
B
He's not as feminine as we're used to seeing the pigs. They're usually really scrawny in all the other.
- [05:07]
C
Yeah, they're. They're totally.
- [05:09]
B
He's totally.
- [05:10]
C
It's really swole there.
- [05:12]
A
He works out. It's a very tone body. I don't know if you've heard Jay's new cringe core songs. They're really funny. But this one is probably like some kind of, you know, fantasy, right?
- [05:25]
B
Yeah.
- [05:26]
A
So there's that one and then there's this one. So the United States Space Force coming.
- [05:37]
C
I had not seen that one.
- [05:39]
A
Yeah.
- [05:41]
C
Wow.
- [05:41]
B
Where.
- [05:42]
C
Where can I sign up?
- [05:43]
A
Right.
- [05:44]
C
That reminds me of Emblem.
- [05:48]
A
Starship Troopers. Do you remember that old sci fi.
- [05:51]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. With all the overwrought like propaganda in it. And yeah, that's what kind of.
- [05:59]
A
It opens up with these propaganda commercials. And they're like, if you want to be a global citizen, you have to Join the Space Force and go kill the bugs.
- [06:07]
B
Right, so, yeah, yeah. Service a guaranteed citizenship or something like that. That was the motto.
- [06:14]
C
Yeah.
- [06:15]
B
You know. Yeah.
- [06:16]
C
We actually write a little bit about Robert Highline and his influence on neoconservativism in Invoking the Beyond. And his work's heavily tinctured by technocratic theory. Technocratic thought he.
- [06:33]
B
It.
- [06:33]
C
Which is kind of ironic given the fact that he fancied himself more of a libertarian. And you know, you. You would think that there could be nothing more averse to the libertarian worldview than technocracy. But he did in fact have some heavy technocratic themes in a lot of his work.
- [06:58]
A
Well, that's perfect place to start because Heinlein also wrote the book Stranger in a Strange Land, which is where we get the idea of Grok.
- [07:06]
B
Right, right, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. That book was also big in. In. In circles. I. I think like the Manson circles or circles related to me, some of the occult circles that. That are considered adjacent to Manson or that he might have been frequenting and stuff. Yeah, yeah. It's very. Really. As a matter of fact, I remember a few years back when that show. Oh, what was it called? Aquarius, when Aquarius was out store with. With David Duchovny from X Files. There's this one scene where a guy is like reading a copy of Strangers in Strange Land and it was like, you know, it just. It leaves us with that image, you know, kind of like insinuating more to come. But the series didn't get across that, you know, set season two threshold that, you know, got canceled thereafter. But like, yeah, it seemed to be insinuating that there was. There was more to come in that regard. And you know, showing how Strangers in a Strange Land and. And High Line and probably those OTO circles that Highline is reputed to have been close to. Some people even believe that he was a part of that lodge, the Agape Lodge there. And I think Pasadena, I think it was in Cal. You know, how that might have contributed to the. The Family and to the Family's theology and stuff. But, you know, the. The series didn't get past the second season. It was cancelled. You know, even though it was written. It was written with five seasons of mine. So, you know, we. To see what the great reveal would have been.
- [08:51]
C
So it's kind of interesting too how just science fiction in general, just kind of forms like this corpus of. This corpus of mythic archetypes and what have you, a body of mythology that is drawn upon by ufological circles and also Bizarre cults and what have you, such as Manson's little circle. It's what if you look at science fiction literature and, and really what you have, you know, in particular where, particular with sci fi literature that is related to space. And then of course, aliens, you have what I, what I would consider kind of a, in a Vogelian sense
- [09:49]
B
and
- [09:49]
C
a monetization of the eschaton of, if you've ever read, you know, Eric Vogelin, he of course coined that phrase a manitizing the eschaton, which basically means join the eschaton or the end of days into the experiential limits of humanity, into the ontological confines of the physical universe. And you see that transposition of heaven and hell and angels, demons and God. You see that transposition into the physical universe, God is suddenly construed as being not, you know, a, a transcendent God. As, you know, orthodox Christian Christianity understands him. He's, he's transcendent in orthodox theology. He's also a manate. He's, he, he, he's in creation as much as he is outside of creation. He's beyond creation, but he's also within it. There's a balance between transcendence and a man. It's. But science fiction literature completely and totally amenitizes God. And you know, he's now understood as literally an inhabitant of the physical universe. And he's concretized or hypostatized as these, these aliens, as these alien beings who are viewed as virtually deific. They're, they arise from the Kaza sui order, the self generating order of the universe. You know, so they're kind of the biological appendages of a pantheistic, a pantheistic divinity, an intramundane divinity.
- [11:27]
B
And they have all the attributes that we, that we would ascribe to the divine. Like, you know, you got ET Rising from the dead, right? You got Spock rising from the dead. You got ET Able to heal a child's finger merely by touching it, you know. Yeah.
- [11:47]
C
You have, in of course, close Encounters of the Third Kind, you have the invocation of a particular piece of scripture as these astronauts are preparing to leave Earth with these visiting aliens. And it's the piece of scripture which says, he shall give his angels charge over thee. And the aliens are portrayed as literally angelic. There's this recurring angelic motif and that's in large measure attributable to an Enlightenment pamphleteer, a pamphleteer from the 18th century Enlightenment by the name of Jacob Ilivi. And I, I think I'M pronouncing his last name correctly. It's I L I V E Jacob Ilivi. And he, he was, he, he basically promoted this very bizarre Neo Gnostic narrative, this latter day Neo gnostic evangel between 1730 and 1750. And you can find that narrative in his work. The Orations spoke at Joiners Hall. You can find it in his other work, the Layman's Vindication of the Christian Religion. And I think some of these are actually available on Internet Archive. You can find them archived on, on Internet Archive. And you can, you can also learn a bit more about him through uh, the works of uh. I, I believe the author's name is Herrick. Uh, I can't remember his first name but he, he.
- [13:34]
B
James Eric.
- [13:35]
C
I, I think it, yeah, I think it is James Herrick. He wrote uh, the book, uh, he wrote the book Scientific Mythologies and he also wrote the book the twilight of
- [13:46]
B
the, I think was the twilight of
- [13:52]
C
the traditional religious or the religious traditions of the West. I can't recall the name of his other book, but he wrote a book called Scientific Mythologies as well. And he touches on Jacob Alivi in that book and he basically reveals that Jacob Believy was for all practical purposes a Neo Gnostic. An enlightenment era Neo Gnostic, which doesn't, you know, come as particularly, you know, shocking given the fact that the, the 18th century enlightenment was awash in Gnosticism. The Enlightenment was arguably a Gnostic revival of sorts. You had people like Voltaire who wrote pieces of work like Plato, I think was called Plato's Cave. And in that work he basically reiterated Gnostic cosmology. You had Jean Jacques Rizzo who of course viewed civilization as this corrupting force, which is kind of vintage Gnosticism. A lot of, you know, ancient Gnosticism was heavily in our anarchistic and very, very averse to any civilization because the Gnostics concretized evil. They assigned evil a positive ontological status instead of viewing evil as merely a tendency of the will, something, you know, within us, a privation within us. It, he, they've, they viewed it as something that was a literal animated essence interwoven into the ontology of creation. And therefore national governments, you know, ergo, national governments were, were just inherently corrupt in the, in the non view. And so you can see that sort of thinking in Jean Jacques Rizzo.
- [15:56]
B
He, you also had like Adam Weishaupt's Bavarian Illuminati, which I think he saw his Bavarian Illuminati as kind of the shock troops or the cadre of the Enlightenment, I really think that that's how he saw them. They were, they were the ones that were going to go out and affect the change that all these Enlightenment thinkers that the, that the philosophes had written about, they were going to make it. They were going to make it the real deal. They were going to bring it into reality. You know, he talked a lot about a kind of hidden Jesus, a kind of esoteric Jesus, the real Jesus that all the Christians are keeping us from knowing about, that the church is suppressing. And that's very much in the, in the Gnostic vein.
- [16:39]
C
Yeah, exactly. That echoes the heretical Christology of Gnosticism. Well, none of you knew the real Jesus. Only, you know, only the Gnostics, only those in possession of secret, not of secret knowledge or Gnosis know the real Jesus and know what he's really teaching. But this, this was the milieu, this was the formative ethos which, in within which Jake Jacob Alivi found himself immersed. And so he, he, you know, espoused his own neo Gnostic evangel. He basically echoed the cosmological pessimism of his ancient Gnostic antecedents by claiming that earth was hell. He called Earth hell, or that is to say a place that's inferior to heaven right there. That's vintage Gnosticism. Because the Gnostics, again assigning this positive ontological status to corruption, viewed all of the material world not as good as orthodox, you know, Christianity held. You know, because orthodox Christianity views matter. Matter has redemptive properties. It has redemptive potentials. You see that with St. John of Damascus. He says, I worship the God of matter. I. I worship the God of matter who deigned to become matter so that he could save matter, you know, and so that there was an understanding that that matter in and of itself is not evil. But the Gnostics had this more so this dys. Teleological view of matter as being, you know, a cosmic abortion. And so did Jacob Believy. Jacob Alivi viewed heaven as. Or earth as hell. And he said that the Earth really served no purpose, that there it wasn't made to be populated by any order of beings. It was not made for us. You. And you hear that theme like in films like Interstellar. In Interstellar, if you recall, I believe Michael Caine's character says, well, maybe Earth was never meant to be our home. You know, maybe we're meant to send to the stars.
- [18:55]
B
And the idea also, I mean, there's a transmission belt where that idea gets brought up to more Modern day, like deep state manifestations like, like Jim Jones people's temple.
- [19:09]
C
That's exactly right, yeah.
- [19:11]
B
Jim Jones said, look, you know, I can, I can. He basically had his own kind of, like, kind of ufological religion where he said there's, you know, there's all these socialist paradise out there in space, all these, you know, planets that have like these wonderful perfect socialist society and he could lead the people there.
- [19:36]
C
And all that is conspicuously, that is conspicuously reminiscent of the, the neo gnostic cosmology espoused by Jacob Alivia. Jacob Alleviate the same thing.
- [19:50]
B
Yeah, he's.
- [19:50]
C
He declared that man was an apostle, an apostate angel imprisoned within the body, which basically qualified as a corporeal penitentiary for the soul. And in order to escape that corporeal penitentiary and transcend this penal colony of this, this demonized world, man had to undergo some vaguely defined earthbound test, a purgatorial trial. And once he had completed that trial, man would allegedly spiritually ascend to other planets which Ilivi claimed were heavenly habitations, were impureine habitations. And.
- [20:32]
B
But, but, but Jones.
- [20:34]
C
Yeah, Joe, same thing.
- [20:36]
B
But Jones might have been incorporating this all into his theology at the behest of COVID political circles. I mean, I don't know if you ever heard that the death tape of Jones there when he was in Guyana with Jonestown. And this was the recording right before the, the. What some people believe are mass suicides, well, was more and more like, more likely was. Was murder. And you hear him on the tape say, get out of here. He says, get Dwyer out of here. And Dwyer, who he was referring to was Richard Dwyer, who was the deputy chief of Missions at the American Embassy in Georgetown, Guyana. And that Richard Dwyer was suspected to be some kind of CIA official. And of course, you know, when you're talking about embassies, all they are, are kind of like, are kind of like launch pads for intelligence and you know, and covers for intelligence operatives. And so, you know, so Dwyer was in all likelihood somehow connected to CIA, which she always tried to vehemently deny or not. He skirt the issue whenever it was brought to his attention. And also when, when, when Jones was in Brazil, all of his neighbors there in Brazil were convinced that he was working for the CIA. Newspapers even reported that neighbors were commenting on. Yeah, we thought he was working for the CIA. He go in diplomatic cars and black limousines and stuff. And you know, when, when he incorporated all this gnostic stuff into his UFO kind of religion, he might have been doing it at the behest of, of what we would call the deep state. It called what are covert circles of some sort. Covert political circles.
- [22:31]
C
Yeah. And, and if you look at the CIA there you have more connective sinews to, to neo Gnostic evangelists, so to speak. These, these modern promulgators of a neo Gnostic evangel with none other than Carl Hune. Carl, Carl Hume, of course, played a major role in the popularization of the Gnostic codices, the Nag Hammadi codices, and that, that his, his revelations concerning those codices kind of coincided with the summer and fall of 1947 during which we see this spate of UFO sightings, this great wave of UFO sightings.
- [23:26]
B
And
- [23:29]
C
that has inspired modern Gnostic revivalists like John Lash, who basically believes that this pattern of events that we saw in the summer and fall of 1947 and it's coinciding with the Nag Hammadi Gospels revelation made by Carl Hume. He believed that it foreshadowed an emergent Gnostically inspired religion that would basically supplant Christianity.
- [24:01]
B
But like you were saying there, Alan Dawes, Leon Davis, who was one of the scientists on the Manhattan Project, Leon Davidson, was convinced that Allen Dulles had drawn heavily on Carl Hume's work on UFOs as a source of inspiration when he was manipulating the whole Adamski contactee thing. He basically was the, the, probably one of the brainchilds behind the whole Adamski contactee story. Yeah.
- [24:36]
C
And you might, you might ask, well what, why, why, you know, what's, what's the significance of this? This, this is, isn't Gnosticism just, you know, an antiquated, an antiquated Christian heresy? You know, who, who cares?
- [24:53]
B
Well, if it, it begins to make
- [24:57]
C
more sense when you look at gnostic soteriology. Of course, Gnostic soteriology begins off as being ostensibly individualistic, radically individualistic. It, you know, the Gnostic Gnostics skewed, you know, the communal elements of the orthodox Christian faith. You know, Orthodox Christianity holds a, a, holds a lafay, a communal view of salvation. We are saved, but we're saved as a church. We're saved as the historical community founded by Jesus Christ. So, you know, you don't, there's no lone rangers, so to speak, in orthodox Christianity. Not so with Gnosticism. Gnosticism, you're all lone rangers and salvation is a personal path. And interestingly enough, you hear this sort of soteriology reiterated ad nauseam today by most, you know, modern American Evangelicals, Protestants, what have you, you know, it's, it's your personal path. It's your personal path. So Gnosticism espouses this ostensibly individualistic soteriology. But what is the end point of Gnostic salvation? What for the Gnostic constitutes being saved? Well, it's reabsorption into the pleroma or the true divinity. And what is the pleroma? It's this singular deific power within which individuality is lost. Individuality is submerged into this sea of consciousness. It's basically self erasure.
- [26:46]
B
And if you look, you know what.
- [26:50]
C
Yes, yeah, absolutely. And look at, look at, you know, what did Gnostics consider a symptom of the corruption of creation? It was an order of differentiated beings. They, they, they derided the fact that no one, you know, no one being, no one person is exactly the same. They derided the fact that there was this order of different that defined the material, the material cosmos. In that sense, they kind of constituted normative monist in that while they did subscribe to this radical metaphysical dualism between spirit and matter, they believed that no such division should have ever existed and that all reality should have been this undifferentiated absolute. And that undifferentiated absolute should be an exclusively spiritual, incorporeal reality. And so where am I going with all this Gnostic soteriology? Well, when you ideologize that soteriology, and it has been ideologized in multiple forms. It was ideologized by George Friedrich Hegel and then of course his disciple Karl Marx. It's ideologized in the form of Hitlerian fascism. It's even ideologized in the form of neoconservativism. But you ideologize that soteriology and you amanitize all its articles of faith, in particular the pleroma, what form does the pleroma assume in the new neo gnostic scheme of things? The pleroma, the undifferentiated absolute, is the state capital s state, which of course, you know, Hegel regarded as the march of God on earth. The state, the omnipotent apotheosized state is God, and the individual is subordinated to the collective within that pleroma. And so we have the political religion of collectivism. And so with the promotion of, you know, this neo gnostic narrative through the poison pill of the UFO myth, you know, through the, the transmission belt of the UFO myth, you have the insinuation of collectivism, you have the insinuation of very forms of governance that are not very Friendly towards representative forms of government, towards parliaments or congresses. It's extremely technocratic.
- [29:51]
B
Jacques Vallee. Yeah, Jacques Vallee, one of the premier ufologists out there. He even, and in one of his books, the Messengers of Deception, he even notes like if you look at a lot of these UFO cults, they have very little of the democratic spirit in them. Yeah, very anti democratic. Like the Raelian movement, which at a
- [30:14]
C
time was the largest, the largest ufo, the largest UFO cult in the world. Its founder, what was his.
- [30:26]
A
Rael.
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B
Yeah, Rael. But what was his. Yeah, he had, he had some bizarre name.
- [30:36]
C
The funny, the funny thing is it's like I, I guess he's now hanging out on. In some tropical paradise with, with a ton of, of chicks acting as his harem and all.
- [30:49]
A
Yeah, they were a space cult and a sex cult at the same time. And they were actually in Playboy.
- [30:58]
B
Yeah.
- [31:00]
A
About space sex and space and integrating, you know, aliens with humans. And you said. So would you say that sci fi is, I mean that Gnosticism is like a prototype of science fiction?
- [31:16]
B
Yes, yes.
- [31:16]
C
And I'm trying to recall which author. Actually there's a really good article over the Gnostic elements of science fiction. I wish I could remember the author's name. But in that article he basically states that science fiction is for all practical purposes by and large really just not new form of Gnostic parable.
- [31:47]
B
And, but Wachowski brothers kind of had at it too. Yeah, you know they, they, they see like motion pictures and their particular genre of motion pictures, which is science fiction, as kind of like, you know, a way of, a way of like evangelizing for Gnosticism.
- [32:06]
C
But if, if you look at the railing movement to just to, to reiterate the technocratic elements of that movement. Rael and many of his religious tracts talk about a genealocracy, the rule by a cognitive elite.
- [32:24]
B
Well, this is simply, this is simply
- [32:29]
C
technocracy under another appellation. And you see how, so you see how through the poison pill of the UFO myth we have the insinuation of, of those, those political arrangements that are most advantageous to the elite, that, that you see a political arrangement that's more closely aligned with that espoused by H.G. wells, who of course, you know, H.G. wells promoted a, a democracy of experts. He, he basically believed that democratic processes, voting, legislating, what have you, were reserved for an elite few for the experts, for those who laid claim to a socio political gnosis. And he, he dubbed such men samurai. And yeah, and, and of course HG Wells also promoted alien myths, you know, through in particular, War of the Worlds.
- [33:38]
A
Do you think these technocrats are. Or these technocratic elite is going to be the ones who have integrated themselves with the technology, like, physically and mentally and emotionally? Because getting back to grok real fast, if I recall, I read that book maybe like 20 years ago. But it's the. If you say I grok you, that means I understand you on a deeper level. Like on the deep. Like, you know, when in the Bible they say he knew her like that intimate. So when you grok somebody and he's a Martian, I think he was a Earthling that was raised on Mars and had to come back. But they're a very sexually liberated race, the Martians are, and they grok each other. They're like very poly type of society. And Michael Valentine, I think, was the protagonist name. He's here to, like, spread the love of Mars on Earth. And grokking is part of that.
- [34:44]
C
Grock and roll.
- [34:45]
A
Yeah, grock and roll, exactly. So, yeah, it's this, like, merging of boundaries. And your book is called Invoking the Beyond. So can I ask you, what are they invoking?
- [35:01]
C
Well, okay, so when we use the term beyond, we. What we use that term to denote is any. Any power that ontologically and epistemologically dwarfs humanity.
- [35:21]
B
So
- [35:24]
C
ontologically, this power just surpasses all of our known categories of being. Epistemologically, it surpasses all of our categories of knowledge and the beyond. Its existence as a narrative construct, which is invoked in the realm of politics in order to overwhelm national governments, was made possible by yet another Enlightenment theoretician, which was, of course, Immanuel Kant. And you look at Immanuel Kant's theory of knowledge, and it's very much derivative of Gnosticism. Immanuel Kant holds that we cannot know the dingon, Sikh, or the thing in and of itself. That external reality is perennially imperceptible. And so again, you have the echoes of the Gnostic suspicion of the external world. The external world is a deceptive simulacrum, or in this case, our own epistemic faculties, our own sensory faculties are basically suboptimal, somehow designed suboptimally, it must have been just imparted to us by a deceptive demiurge. But with the external world rendered a terra incognita, an unknown continent, a world that's just perennially imperceptible and unknowable, you have this rise of a new class of myth makers. Who now populate terra incognita with their own surrogates for the divine. And we name, I think, what, four iterations of the beyond. Yeah, we have the wrathful Earth goddess, which, of course, you see invoked largely by radical environmentalists and radical environmentalist interests that are closely aligned with the Technocrats.
- [37:41]
A
That's like, you know, True Detective was about what you just said.
- [37:46]
C
Yeah, absolutely.
- [37:48]
B
And really, it's a shame I stopped that. I stopped at season one. I thought the season one was the perfect show, and then I thought that it just went downhill from there and everything. And so. So they. So the. Is that who the antagonist is in the fourth season?
- [38:06]
A
Like, literally the raffle Earth goddess taking revenge on technocrats and polluters?
- [38:13]
C
Yeah, yeah. And. And. And interestingly enough. Interestingly enough, that iteration of the beyond easily segues into the UFO myth in the beyond invoked as extraterrestrial gods, because that iteration of the beyond is. It intimates, a pantheistic divinity, an intramundane divinity. All of the universe as we know it is literally alive. Alive in a literal sense, it's a pantheistic divinity. It's an emanet God. And out of the. Out of this kaza sui order, out of it emerges species, and they just kind of emerge through spontaneous generation, a la Darwinism. You know, a lot, evolutionary processes. And birthed from these primordial soups are the appendages of this pantheistic divinity, which are, you know, organisms, the various organisms that populate the universe. And as appendages of that intramundane divinity, they qualify as divine as well. And so. Because.
- [39:37]
A
Alien covenant.
- [39:39]
C
Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, because they.
- [39:42]
B
They.
- [39:43]
C
They emerged, you know, out of. They emerged from this. This pantheistic divinity.
- [39:50]
B
They.
- [39:50]
C
They. They themselves are divine. And then, of course, you know, from there, we slowly but surely segue into autotheism or the worship of self, and we segue into apotheosis, the apotheosis of humanity, which is a grotesque parody of the orthodox Christian belief in theosis. You basically see man becoming God because if. If the extraterrestrials themselves are God and we are evolutionarily preordained to become as they are using. You see, that theme reiterated ad nauseam, like, for instance, in Battlestar Galactica, recall when those. These. These bright, numinous beings resurrect Apollo.
- [40:45]
B
Yeah, just the 1978 one. No, not the 2004. Right, yeah, the.
- [40:52]
C
The original Glenn Larson one. When they resurrect Apollo, he's been. He's been killed by some villain who is is Lucifer. But Lucifer interpreted according to an inverted hermeneutic. They, he, he's, he's resurrected by these numinous beings and they're talking to. To Starbuck and Apollo's girlfriend and they tell him, as we are, you shall become. So see, you see that this theme of, of, of the divinity from the, the divinity from outer space, the beyond, invoked as extraterrestrial gods intimating our own apotheosis or our, our, our, our own ascension to, to the status of being God. And, and actually this theme was just, this theme was just reiterated once more.
- [41:55]
B
It was.
- [41:57]
C
Shoot, sorry, I'm drawing a blank here. It, it was, it was just recently revealed. I forget who was re. Claimed that he was privy to. He was privy to information concerning alien human hybridization experiments.
- [42:14]
A
Oh, I just saw that. Matt.
- [42:19]
C
Yeah. Matt Gates. And, and with that, with, with, with this, this revelation that. That somehow something, you know, somehow we're, we're the product of. We're the product of the, the product of alien human coupling where we. You now have this myth of celestial bloodlines being tacitly conveyed, which Jean Jacques Valli warned about in, in his work. He, he wrote about how contactee philosophies typically include the belief in higher races, totalitarian systems that will circumvent and, and ultimately abolish democracy, the reinterpretation of the scriptural understanding of the sons of God taking the daughters of man. This completely reinterpreted, recasted version of that narrative now, and you see the premises being laid, the groundwork being laid for a celestial bloodline myth. And not surprisingly, the late Professor John Mack, he proposed that UFO abductees descended from an entirely different genetic type than all of us. And as a result, they, they, they, they were in possession of, for all practical purposes, a gnosis. They were a result of human and alien coupling. And this divergent genetic heritage has endowed abductees with a greater mental flexibility and a heightened sensitivity to higher modes of experience. And these, these, the. So abductees just basically become the new mystics and the new shamans.
- [44:24]
A
Well, I was just going to say this can create a new kind of caste system. Right?
- [44:28]
C
Like, exactly.
- [44:28]
A
We have the blood from the aliens, King Anunnakis or whatever. And.
- [44:35]
C
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
- [44:37]
B
You, you, you have, you have the,
- [44:39]
C
the, the, you know, you have the lesser Lil. Lilliputian races. And then you have, you have the, you have the divine bloodlines, the celestial bloodlines. The dangers of that sort of thinking are fairly obvious. It's fairly axiomatic. If If a racial hierarchy holds sway, then it stands to reason that some races are closer to perfection than others.
- [45:05]
B
We personally believe that this trope might have existed in a different form, sans the aliens, some time ago. I mean, this idea of a bloodline that's elevated and different from everybody else and unique and perfect. If you go back into the. Not to the. To the early. Well, I think it was around the early 80s, there was a book that was released and it shook the foundations of a lot of people's faith called Holy Blood. Holy Grail.
- [45:40]
A
Yeah.
- [45:40]
B
And it was written. Yeah, it was written by Bajan Lee and Lincoln. And, and you know, it's positing that Jesus survived the cross. And by survived, I don't mean resurrected. I mean he never died on the cross. He goes and sires children with Mary Magdalene in France and they become the Merovidian bloodline. And so this. So the descendants of Jesus are over there in Europe and have, you know, formed the European royalty. And, and so it's, it's, you know, it, it's them. It's this, you know, this holy bloodline that are heirs to, you know, to Christ promises and not. And not the Church. Not, not. Not the, you know, the Church suppressed all this. And, and what many people don't realize is that is that Beijing, Lee and Lincoln, they, they, they. It might have been a, A CIA agent that actually concocted this, this myth with them or helped them to, to. To. To perpetrate this myth because Miles Copeland, who was. Who was a big mover and shaker in, in the CIA's Political Action Division, he actually knew Bajan Lee and Lincoln. He told them a story that they passed on in their book, the Dead Sea Scrolls Deception, where he says, oh, while when I was over in Beirut, we found some books of the Bible and they got blown off the roof when we were trying to look at them at the rooftop at our station. But you know, they. That, you know, they're actual books that might under. Undermine orthodoxy. Both capital O and lowercase oh in. In Christianity. But. But you know, Miles Copeland, he. His family is his. Some of it is one of his children actually went on to actually do a. And an opera. Either was an opera or some kind of musical about Holy Blood, Holy Grail. You know, it kind of nod, you know, show basically their way of kind of, you know, saying that they were kind of behind this all. But, but you know, you look at Miles Copeland, he was, you know, he and Bob Mandelstam had this project at the Political Action Division in the CIA called OHP occultism in high places where they, they saw that occult groups and occult figures could be used to influence different heads of states in different countries. And so, so they, they, so through ohp, they reached out to certain groups such as the Scientologists, who have their own kind of UFO beliefs. Yeah.
- [48:57]
C
Which is again derivative of Jacob Alivi's latter day interplanetary gnosticism. Herrick actually in his book Scientific Mythologies makes a strong case for that, that Scientology. You look at it in A. Levy's view we were apostate angels. And L. Ron Hubbard's view, we are imprisoned thetans.
- [49:20]
B
Yeah. So I guess what I'm trying to say is a long way around Harvey's Barn is that Miles, you see, with Miles Copeland, you see a nexus point between this whole, whole, this whole holy bloodline idea and the UFO deception. And one of those ways that it might have found its way into this emerging UFO religion.
- [49:48]
A
Look at what we went to Roswell on our last road trip. We got through and they had this picture on the wall. They have a gallery of art, but look at what he's wearing.
- [50:02]
B
Yeah. Is that a cross?
- [50:04]
A
Yeah.
- [50:05]
C
Oh wow.
- [50:05]
A
Yeah, it's a gray with a cross necklace. And so I'm like, is that where they're going with this is they're gonna say that Christ is the alien entity or they made up religion? All the religions belong to them. And then I also got this T shirt, I don't know if you can see that. It says out of this world.
- [50:25]
B
Out of this world.
- [50:27]
A
Alien. So are they.
- [50:33]
B
You're definitely right there. That's where they're going. Yeah.
- [50:36]
C
An exotheological Christ.
- [50:39]
B
When Linda Moulton Howe was shown documents by Richard Doty and you know, Richard Doty was, was a notorious disinformation agent with the afosi. And he looks. And not only was he a part of a faction of the AFOSI that had kind of had drifted off and because of Cold War paranoia and had become less than ethical and less immoral because of the, because of the Cold War paranoia at the time, but he was also, it looks like he was also a part, either part of or representative of the Aviary, which was a group of UFO disinformation agents, deep state actors that were disinformation agents pushing themselves off at as whistleblowers. But you know, when he shown that information to Linda Moulton Howe, intending to use her as a disinformation amplifier, one of the things that she read in there, it was that G. That Basically that Jesus Christ was a product of extraterrestrial, I guess like repro, like reproduction with humans or something to that sort of hybridization experiment. Yeah. You know, and she ended up passing off this, this disinformation as if it was gullible because she was gullible like a lot of these people are. And you know, in, she ended up putting it in her book An Alien Harvest.
- [52:14]
C
And these sort of, these new heretical christologies are nothing new. Paul mentioned earlier the Bavarian Illuminati, which of course was a subversive organization during. Surprise, surprise, the enlightenment, which the 18th century Enlightenment seems to be, seems to be the crucible for. The crucible for this UFO myth or at least the crucible for the neo gnostic hermeneutic according to which the phenomena is understood. But Adam Weishaupt pushed a, promoted a heretical Christology. He promoted this socialist Jesus who came to, you know, to abolish all national governments and teach the, the brotherhood of man.
- [53:05]
A
You mentioned the Jim Jones was a socialist sort of communist UFO and all of a lot of these UFO cults have utopianism kind of.
- [53:17]
C
Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, yeah. They're heavily, they're, they're very, they're very anti democrat democratic. Again, like a really good example again is like the Raelian movement. The Raelian movement of course, with the promotion of a geniocracy, which is just really technocracy under another appellation, but also the Raelian movement. In one of his tracks, Rael likens human society. He basically biologizes human society. He, he, he likens it to a social, or a social organism. You know, he, he basically says, you know, the appendages are subordinated to the brain and, and what have you. And likewise, you know, all society, all branches of society are subordinated to you know, the state or in his case the genealocracy, the, the, the rule by geniuses. This is vintage Ernest Haeckel. Ernest Hagel promoted the very same sort
- [54:25]
B
of
- [54:27]
C
biology, biologized view of the state. This, this, this notion of, of a social organism. So you can see where this becomes a transmission vehicle really for these, these ideas.
- [54:41]
B
Say the aliens political aspirations for us always seem to be something like fascism or something like communism.
- [54:48]
C
Yeah, yeah, or, or oblivion. Complete and total oblivion altogether.
- [54:53]
A
Like childhood's end.
- [54:54]
C
Childhood's end, which is childhood ends is just vintage Gnosticism. Complete, complete and total vintage Gnosticism. And, and there at the end you have the complete and total abolition of humanity entirely. And the, the, the, the reabsorption of Pure human mentality into the overmind, which is nothing more than just Arthur C. Clarke's version of the Pleroma. And Arthur C. Clarke, throughout his work seems to intimate his exposure to Gnostic work. He talks continually about, continually about pure mentality, pure mentality which just seems to be, you know, his own euphemistic way of speaking about disembodied bliss. Because it's always the endpoint, the terminus for humanity always seems to be disembodiment. His work not just in childhood's in, but also 2001. Space Odyssey 2012. And then what was the last one of his, his Space Odyssey Trilogy?
- [56:18]
A
3001.
- [56:19]
C
Yeah, 3001. In 3001, lo and behold, you know, humanity has so commingled itself with machines that they no longer have physical forms there, you know, that now, now they're completely and totally disembodied. Which, which is ironic given the fact that, you know, he, he hails from a scientific materialist heritage. So why all of a sudden are we talking in terms of vapors and in terms of disembodiment? Doesn't that seem to be at odds with your scientific materialist conviction that matter is all there is?
- [57:00]
B
Well, seem to also be at odds with this minor attraction if.
- [57:04]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's kind of a, yeah, minor attracted individual. But, but yeah, well, it turns out that, you know, modern science, at least the Baconian formulation thereof, has exhibited this very ironic allergy towards matter. You know, with, with, with Sir Francis Bacon and his, his divesting the cosmos of a telos, his rejection of teleology. He reduces all of matter to what Heidegger would have called Beshtant, a standing reserve of malleable material. And from there you're only a few short steps away from the complete and total rejection of matter in a very Gnostic sense altogether. And it really doesn't come. It's not nearly as counterintuitive as you would think, because there's a dialectical commonality between the anti materialism of Gnosticism and the materialism of the scientific materialist. And that dialectical commonality is dysteleology, the view of everything as being purposeless, meaningless. A dysteleological universe like the sort that you see proposed by HP Lovecraft, where it's a completely mindless, purposeless universe that's indifferent to us. But yeah, I mean, the endpoint for the scientific materialist seems to be quite
- [58:46]
A
identical to the Gnostic, just complete atomization of your personality to become an embryo of a God, like in 2001.
- [59:00]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
- [59:02]
A
One man floating in space in some sort of gestation.
- [59:08]
B
Yeah, yeah, right.
- [59:10]
C
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
- [59:13]
A
And so how do I ask this? Okay. When I go to the post office and we joke around and I say, you know, if the aliens invade, it's not real. You know, don't like, it's all fake and gay. Right. But then they're like, well, what, what is it? So they're like, you don't believe in aliens? I'm like, no, I do. They're just not what you think they are.
- [59:32]
B
So I know where you're going with this.
- [59:34]
A
Yeah, the, the, the show is going to be fake, but the entities are real. So how would you explain that?
- [59:46]
B
I think that the person that probably put it best was Charles Upton. He's a perennialist philosopher and he's looked at this in several different books and he, his books, Cracking Cracks in the Great Wall, the Alien Disclosure, Deception, I think it was called, and Vectors of the Counter Initiation.
- [60:13]
A
Can you say his name one more time?
- [60:14]
B
Charles Upton.
- [60:16]
A
Okay.
- [60:17]
B
U P, T, O, N. Don't let his perennialism, you know, throw you off or you know, get, you know, be off putting and all. It's actually some really, really good work. And he, he's, you know, he, he points, he says, well, you know, there's some that say it's all, it's all a black ops, it's all a covert operation. And then there's others that say, you know, oh, it's, it's, it's, it's all some, some kind of preternatural phenomenon. He's like, actually, it's both, actually, it's, it's, it's both. There, there. Okay, there, there is, there is some advanced R D that's being used to perpetrate this.
- [61:06]
C
Drones.
- [61:07]
B
Yeah, drones are being used. We go into drones in our latest series, Deception through Disclosure. You know how they, how they've been playing a role in this, in this, this latest phase of the alien.
- [61:21]
C
You can check that series out at the Decoding Cultural Decoding Culture foundation website. They got, they, they have all the installments so far.
- [61:34]
B
Yeah. And you know, so there, there's all this advanced R D that's being used to help create the illusion. But then you'll come across some incidents where the, where, where what's seen in the sky defies physics. It defies what, you know, something, something that starts off as a, as a circle but then becomes cigar shape, it elongates and then goes back down or something that appears and then starts to kind of fade out as if it's having difficulty material materializing in our.
- [62:12]
A
Yeah. Jake loves putting on those videos late at night when we're falling asleep, like the blurry UFOs. And he, I hate him because he's like, what is that? And I'm like, I don't know. What is that? I don't know.
- [62:25]
B
Yeah, but, but so part of, part, so, you know, part of the deception is advanced R D. Okay? It's, it's there, it's, it's real. You know, these, these technologies that are very much terrestrial based and that do some amazing things. And, and what they do is they put them in the sky knowing that people will attribute them to, to aliens or knowing that their own, their own, you know, allies in the media and the Mockingbird press will attribute it to aliens, that sort of thing. But then there's, there's also Deep State actors that are not just spooks, but
- [63:12]
C
they're also, they're also by, by antiquity, stinkers.
- [63:17]
B
They're also occultists. They're also practice. They're practitioners, they're wizards, they're sorcerers, they're, they're, they're, you know, the conjurers, invocation people. Exactly. And they're, and they're contributing, they're in, they're contributing by, by, you know, calling these things up, so to speak. You know, and the, the, the examples of Deep State actors that fall into this category are Legion. John B. Alexander, thanatologist, you know, and, and, and into every kind of weird occult thing that you ever heard of. And, but was also Green Beret, was involved in the, I believe he was involved in Phoenix program. Worked under John Sinclab in general. John Sinclab when he was over in Vietnam. Michael Kino, you know, Temple of Set, you know, he was mil. He was army intelligence. He was, you know, but, but he, you know, but he's also miner attracted. Yeah, also. And all in all likelihood, yeah. But you know, but he was also the head of, of us of a Satanic, you know, group, the Temple of Set. That, you know, was theistic. It was the theistics. They were theistic Satanists. You know, he took his Satanism to heart. He took it seriously, you know, as opposed to lavey. It's like it was kind of atheistic Satanism. He was like, no, this stuff is real. These are, these beings are real. Howard Harold Putoff, Darl Putoff, who is right now taking. Participating in this latest round of deception as part of the whole osap. A tip kind of Configuration. There he was. He was Scient. He was in Scientology for the longest time, you know, and that's just three people. The list goes on and on of other. Of other individuals. One more I'll name. Civil Leak. Civil Leak was an actual witch that worked with Operation Often a CIA operation that actually started trying to weaponize Satanism. And Civil Leak even said she. She said, you know, these things are demonic manifestations. The. You referring to UFOs. So, you know, so some of these.
- [65:48]
A
So, you know a book by her, if. Oh, here we go.
- [65:51]
B
You got Civil Leaks book.
- [65:52]
A
Look at that.
- [65:54]
B
There she is. Yeah, yeah, I saw old vintage. Yeah, there she is. I saw old vintage films of her on YouTube. The place that I learned about her was in a book by. I've got to remember this name. Let me see if I can find it here. I. I don't have the book at home. It's in my. It's in. It's in my library at home. And I'll. Gosh, well, I'll have to. I don't want to gum up the works by. I'll have to find it when I get at home. Get home. But I. I found out about it in. In a. In a. In a. In a book that was written by the. The same dude that was Wrote. Gideon Spies. What's his name?
- [66:44]
C
Gideon Spies.
- [66:45]
B
He wrote the book. He wrote the book. Gideon Spies.
- [66:48]
C
Geez Louise, you can't be more explicit than that.
- [66:54]
A
Running up evil spirits.
- [66:56]
C
Yeah. Yeah. Well. And.
- [66:58]
B
And Gordon Thomas. Gordon Thomas wrote a book where. And I can't remember the name of the book. I. I remember he wrote Gordon's Gordon Gideon Spice. But I sure as hell don't remember the name of the book that he wrote. But. But he. He wrote a book where. Where he goes into operation often. And that's where I found out about Civil Leak. But. But anyways, you have, you know, you have this whole section of. Of deep state actors that are contributing to the deception, to this alien deception by. By. By conjuring things up, by pulling things from another. An ontological intermediary plane as. As Father Malachi Martin put it, you know, so.
- [67:47]
A
The beyond.
- [67:50]
B
Yeah, but I mean, and that. That's actually quite a. That's. That's scary when you consider that, you know, well, human R D, there's. There's. There's. You're going to hit a wall at some point. And also, you know, the weapons that would be deployed by human R and D and the propulsion systems would be a dead giveaway at some point. There's people that are smart enough out there to say, look, that's human. That can be replicated. We, that's. We can do. But this is.
- [68:20]
A
Do you remember what, real quick, in Independence Day, they actually said that their technology, Area 51, was reverse engineered from the Roswell crash. Remember that?
- [68:33]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know what's funny about that? Bill Corso in his book the Day After Roswell, and Bill Carso was one of the disinformation agents. He was part of these circles. He knew John B. Alexander.
- [68:47]
C
He was.
- [68:47]
B
He was very close with the Robert Bigelow Circle that spawned this latest round of disinformation agents. But Bill Corso says, oh, this stuff is alien. But then at the beginning of the book, he says. He says, well, I called in Erman. Erman Oberth and, And Vernon von Braun because it replicated a kind of German technology.
- [69:16]
A
Oh, okay.
- [69:17]
B
And it's like. Well, you just as like, it's like rollback. Yeah, yeah, you know, let's. Alien.
- [69:23]
C
Is it from Reticuli or is it from Germany?
- [69:26]
B
You just said it was alien. Yeah, yeah, you said it was alien, but now you're saying it replicates a German technology. And I had to call in Werner Brown Braun and Herman Oberth to, To try help decipher it.
- [69:39]
A
You know, it's actually ancient Tibetan or something.
- [69:42]
B
Yeah, but, but I mean. But the scary thing about that aspect of the deception, the conjurers that are involved in this whole thing is that they are now, They're. They're now dealing with forces with whom they don't dictate the terms.
- [70:03]
C
No, the tail is wagging the dog.
- [70:05]
B
You don't dictate the terms. And something that Charles Upton points out in his books is that. Is that the diabolical, the demonic always leads the. Always leads the magician to believe that the magician is firmly in control of things, is firmly in control of the phenomenon when he controls none of it.
- [70:28]
C
Right.
- [70:28]
B
Controls none of it.
- [70:29]
A
Right.
- [70:30]
C
The solution of control over these, you know, over these preternatural forces stems from a misidentification of what the forces actually are.
- [70:40]
B
Because.
- [70:41]
C
And this is gonna. This is gonna sound counter intuitive, but I believe David Bentley Hart, with whom I'm at variance with over a multiplicity of issues. He calls himself orthodox, but the guy is a syncretist and what have you, but he's never. He nevertheless does make a very salient observation concerning magic and modern science. He basically says magic is essentially a species of materialism because it invokes agencies beyond the visible Sphere, but it does not regard those forces as supernatural or transcendent in the theological sense. But they're, they're. At most, they're preternatural. They're. They're merely the more subtle and potent aspects of the physical cosmos. Hermetic magic. Modern science in, in its, you know, Baconian formulation.
- [71:42]
B
Yeah.
- [71:42]
C
Are. Are both concerned with these hidden forces within the material order. Forces that are morally neutral, that can be leveraged towards ends both fair and foul.
- [71:58]
B
Yeah. These deep state elements that are.
- [72:00]
C
Yeah. What they believe they're dealing with. They're. They believe they're dealing with strictly physical material forces that are just heretofore imperceptible but will be later identified by more advanced scientific methods. That's what they're dealing with.
- [72:18]
B
Yeah. A lot of these, A lot of these individuals, these deep state elements that are, that are conjuring this up. That's what they say. They're like, well, this is just part of mother nature. Science just hasn't caught up to understand it, but one day it will. And nothing could be, nothing could be further from the truth because this is preternatural. This is, this is something that's preternatural, defies any metric. It can't be measured in, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a lab.
- [72:44]
C
It's not quantifiably or empirically demonstrable.
- [72:48]
B
And, and then also, you know, some of the elements there also that are, you know, conjuring these things up. Some of these deep state elements that are conjuring it up or what you brought up Brett. Brett called it. What did he say it was, uh, pragmatist. It's metaphysical. Metaphysical pragmatism. Yeah.
- [73:08]
C
Was a very good way.
- [73:09]
B
Very good way of putting it. You know, these guys are me. Are metaphysical pragmatists. They, they're like, I don't know how the damn thing works and I don't care. All I know is that it works. So use it.
- [73:21]
C
In the words of Card, make it so.
- [73:23]
B
Yeah, just use it.
- [73:24]
A
I mean, we go, go fast and break things. I think is one of the technocrats motto heard. Move fast and break things.
- [73:32]
B
So it'll hope it'll help. It'll win us victory in the. On the psychological battlefield. So use the damn thing and who cares what happens, right. You know, and yeah, so, you know, they're, they're bringing things from there over here that, that they can't put back. You can't put back the genie back in the bottle. And so, you know, God literally, God Only knows what happens now. That these things are. Yeah. Or here. Long way around the Harvey's barn. But I think. I hope that answers your question. Yeah, I think it's. I think it's both. It's. It does not just. It's not all this. This phenomenon is not just. It. It defies one single explanation. You know what I mean? Some of it's advanced R and D. Some of it is preternatural in everything in nature.
- [74:25]
A
Well, so in my new project that I'm working on, I'm studying really hard about, like, Sumeria and Mesopotamia and Babylon, and the first cities are Rukh and Eridu. And I don't know if this is in your book or not, but, like, you know, just the idea of, like, hybrid beings at the beginning of time sort of mixing with humans, like in Genesis 6, to create these giants.
- [74:51]
B
The Apkallu. Is that what it's called, the Abkallu? Or is that. Am I thinking of something that's like
- [74:58]
A
the watery place, I think, where they are from? But yeah, so you have these, like, metaphysical beings that are technologically superior and, you know, genetically superior, let's say, that are oppressing people even before the flood. So they have these tales about, like, what was society like? And when the gods lived among us, they had to go somewhere else. So they're like some kind of physical being that uses vehicles to move places. And they were displaced after the deluge, and then a remnant of them actually came back to haunt people after the Flood. Is this something that. Is this what they're conjuring, is what I'm asking? Like, are these the same type of entities that the magicians would be trying to contact, like the ancient gods?
- [76:01]
B
I think that it's the same thing that was conjured in antiquity. I understand things a little bit differently from antiquity. Like. Like. Okay, I. I don't understand. I don't see Genesis 6 as these things literally coming down and. And making it.
- [76:19]
C
With the Anaki interpretation.
- [76:21]
B
Yeah, I think that, you know, you look at the Bible and it talks about the bed of Og, and the bed of Og is basically, you know, this huge bed, and it's like, my gosh, the man is. Well, yeah, you know, it's. That's. That. That introduces the idea in the. In scripture. That introduces an idea that's. That's. That's widely understood in history as these ritual beds. These ritual beds. And what would happen is that with. And so, you know, the bed of Og was a ritual bed. These ritual beds existed in. In different portions of the, of the, of the Near East, Middle east. And as I understand that they were even in Japan, you know, among their elite. But what I understand is that, you know, is that the way it worked is that a temple priest would don a mask of his God and they would take a slave woman or a temple prostitute, she would, she would get on the bed with him, they would copulate. And the child is still very much human because biological, the biology involved there, the physiology there is all human. But the child is, is, has been consecrated to this thing and could very well be what a Christian would understand as demonized or possessed child or. Yeah, yeah, like the moon child, exactly. Like Jack Parsons making it, you know, with, you know, trying to, trying to create the homunculus and that sort of thing. I think that, that, that, that, that that phenomena in phenomenon and antiquity is what we're seeing replicated, replicated today and all that's what I think, you know, insofar as, you know, the, the weirdness leads us, leaves us to have to speculate in a lot of respects, so.
- [78:31]
A
Well, I think that makes sense with what you guys were bringing up with the Prior of Zion, the Holy Blood, Holy Grail, like the bloodline of Jesus. So if they can get people to think that, you know, these bloodlines were hybrid of some kind of higher being from back then and now they're back like let's say Planet X and Nibiru. I'm sure you guys have heard of those.
- [78:54]
B
Oh yeah.
- [78:54]
C
Oh yeah.
- [78:55]
A
So they're like back to visit us and see how they're plantation is going.
- [79:01]
B
And are the kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so. And like I said like that, that that whole Holy Blood, Holy Grail thing is just steeped in covert political circles that people don't realize. I mean, Miles Copeland had a very close relationship with Agent Lee and Lincoln. He, he contributed to the Dead Sea Scroll Deception book that they wrote. You know, this story that suggests that, hey, there might be text out there that undermined the orthodox, both capital low and lowercase O understanding of the Bible, you know, and then his son, and I believe it was Stuart, I believe it was St. Copeland, the drummer to, to with the Police, with Sting and all. He, he, he did a rock opera of some sort based on Holy Blood, Holy Grail. And it was kind of like they're nod saying yeah, we recreated this and stuff. And like they just took that Holy Blood, Holy Grail BS and transplanted it in the realm of ufology. And now instead of just being, you know, a bloodline from the Middle east, you know, it's, it's bloodlines from out, from, from up there, from out there. Pressly enough that, you know, the, the, the person, and that's what I believe Matt Gaetz is, is repleting in spite of himself without even knowing what the hell he's talking about. You know,
- [80:29]
C
the most proximate origins of, you know, the alien human hybridization narrative, I think could be considered none other than Francis Crick, who basically advanced the theory of panspermia. And interestingly enough, Francis Crick was also steeped in the eugenics movement. And he, he, he wrote, he wrote on topics such as the genetics of twins, which echoes eerily of Joseph Mengele, who was also just preoccupied with twins. And you know, he, he, he, uh, he advanced selective, selective breeding, the curtailment of reproduction among certain segments of the population, sterilization of the so called unfit. All these ideas Sir Francis Crick subscribed to. And he was also the one who, I believe he coined the neologism of panspermia. I believe he, I believe that's, that's a term of his coinage, which of course, you know, Pam Spermia holds that this world was seeded by extraterrestrial intelligences, either through a directed or undirected process.
- [81:59]
B
Which begs the question, who seeded their world? How the hell did they get here?
- [82:04]
C
You're right back to an infinite regress of finite material. Cause it's.
- [82:08]
B
All of a sudden it's turtles all the way down.
- [82:10]
C
Yeah, that's no explanatory power whatsoever. It's, it's one of the, the frustrating things. One of several philosophical, philosophical dead ends of the, of the ufological movement. Yeah, I mean, as though this explains something. As though there's any explanatory power, you know, in a narrative such as the one we see in like Prometheus. Oh, we're, we're the products of the engineers.
- [82:39]
B
The UFO myth, in whatever form or manifestation it comes, is an, is analogous to box cars after box cars after box cars. And you're like, guys, at some point we're going to have to get to the actual engine. We're going to have to get to the train that has the principle of motion in it, but it's itself unmoved. Yeah, you got to get to an unmoved mover.
- [83:05]
A
Yeah, you said that buff alien, hot alien is not gay space brothers, as the Pope would say. If the aliens arrived, I would baptize them. Right, because there are.
- [83:19]
C
Yeah, yeah. And have you ever noticed also there's just there's there's the chronically reiterated theme of sexual perversion.
- [83:31]
A
I was just gonna say, why do they always wanted to touch your butt?
- [83:34]
B
Yeah, yeah. I mean that's what we were talking about. Arthur C. Corp. That goes back to him. A minor attracted individual. And you know, I, I'll say that instead, I guess the P word. I don't know if that's still something that gets you pulled and PDF. PDF. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but he was PDF. Yeah, I mean the evidence suggests, it strongly suggests that that's what he, what he was. You know, it's. Yeah, it, there's always like this, this kind of.
- [84:05]
C
And once you know it, that's a proclivity that is quite endemic to the
- [84:11]
B
ruling class,
- [84:14]
C
as is evidenced by the Epstein files, which, which are getting weirder and weirder.
- [84:19]
A
Who was a panspermist Epstein was, right? He was making all space at that Zoro ranch.
- [84:26]
C
Yeah, and he also, he also, he also espoused some tacit affinities for, for transhumanism. For transhumanism.
- [84:38]
B
Well, I know in the first, the first, the first installment of our series right now, Deception Through Disclosure, I go over the nexus point between, between UFO disinformation and the, and, and the perverts. Because I mean, okay, so, so the, the. Among these UFO disinformation agents is a guy by the name of David Grush now. And he was making the headlines about a year to two years ago. And what many people don't realize is that David Grush, when he was, when he first came out with all these revelations and you know, which was. He wouldn't, he would, he would say, oh, this, there's this and there's that, and we got these ships and everything. And every time that they'd ask for evidence, he'd say, oh, I want to move to a skiff for that. The skiff is like a, a secure compartmentalized information facility, basically. So in other words, he would tell representatives in a secret place about, you know, supposedly show his hand there, show the evidence. We were never shown evidence. We, he just gave us wild tales. But what many people don't realize is that David Grush was represented by a lawyer from the Compass Rose Law Firm. And if you look at Compass Rose Law Firm, it's all spooks. It was even started by a spook, Andrew, because she was, was who founded it was CIA. But among those, those, those lawyers with Compass Rose was a guy by the name of Mark Zaid. And Mark Zaid, according to Zero Hedge and Zero Hedge, shown his His Twitter feed on this, the guy bragged. He said, quote, unquote, I help, I. I help get security clearances for guys with, with child porn issues or child porn problems and stuff. So, you know, so you got, so there's this nexus point there. You got, you got, you got these, you. They got all of these, these disinformation agents out that are DOD centered. They're. They're out of the Pentagon, they're out of the Department of Defense. And you also got like, the perverts that are at the dod, you know, because they're getting security clearances thanks to guys like Mark Zaid. And, and when you look at Operation Flickr, where we were finding this stuff on servers there at the dod, those guys with Operation Flickr, they were, they were cut off. They were. They were told to stop. Stop investigating, even though it's a big counterintelligence issue, you know, like, what if, what if one of these guys are getting blackmailed because the stuff is on their server? Well, you know, and, you know, Al Qaeda says, well, you know, either hand us, give us some fresh intel or we'll, we'll, you know, turn you over to the authorities. We'll let people know, you know. Yeah, so there was, there's this nexus there between the, the, between the perverts and the UFO disinformation agents, and it's all. And it. That intersection seems to be at the dod, it seems to be with the Pentagon. So. Yeah.
- [88:10]
C
And you also see kind of sex ritual, magic being intimated by all the author of Communion, Whitley Strieber. Whitley Strieber, Yeah.
- [88:24]
B
And. And constantly.
- [88:25]
C
Constantly invoking mythic archetypes with that astronomy and what have you.
- [88:31]
B
It.
- [88:32]
C
So it's. You have, you know, once again, this bizarre intersection between, you know, sexual perversion and. And occult beliefs.
- [88:43]
B
Yeah, he. He had a run. He had a run in with what. What he believes is the female alien when he was in Rome. And what many people don't know is that he actually was doing a documentary over the Process Church and Process. His time in Rome kind of corresponds with time where members of Process were in Rome as well. And so it's been suggested by researchers like Jason Horsley that his run in with this female alien creature in Rome is actually a screen memory of his kind of interaction with Process while he was there. And that that female alien might have been Mary McLean, who was with Robert Grimston and that they might have got it on. And he has. Is a screen memory of it. A screen memory is when an authentic memory is taken and something is overwritten on top of it. It, like, like the, you remember the episode of Jose Chung? It came of X Files. Jose Chung came from outer space. Remember? They put that girl under and first she remembers it's aliens, and they're saying, you're doing this for the good of your planet. They put her under again. They hypnotize her again, and she remembers all these, these military men there. And instead of saying you're doing this for the good of your plan, of your planet, they're saying you're doing this for the good of your country. Yeah, so, so that, so, you know, some people that's, that's a screen memory. Some people think that, you know, where
- [90:27]
C
you have these layers of embellishment and, and distortion.
- [90:31]
B
But, but yeah, some, some people think that that's what Communion Guy was. Whitley Strieber was experiencing things.
- [90:38]
A
Okay, so doing the samba with the alien, a screen memory. That was the goofiest scene I think I've seen in a long time where he's dancing with the little, the bossa nova with the little black alien.
- [90:53]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [90:55]
A
So crazy. Well, it seems like sex is the element that sort of opens the portal for these things to enter. Right. And I'm thinking of, obviously, you know, Crowley and Jack Parsons.
- [91:11]
B
Right.
- [91:13]
A
Lam. So you know that guy with the bulbous head that looks like the gray that we would say is the classic alien.
- [91:22]
C
Yeah. Witnessed by Aleister Crawley.
- [91:24]
B
Yeah, yeah. The Amelantra. Was that the Amelantra work?
- [91:28]
A
Yeah. And they actually said that Lam is. He said he was the disincarnate spirit of a Tibetan llama. That's why his name is Lam or the way. Right. So you've got Jack Parsons, who, I don't know if you've heard this, but he was the who they based Tony Stark off of in the Avengers.
- [91:48]
B
I didn't know. I didn't know he was. I, I, Some people said that it had to be Elon Musk, and it's like, well, no, you don't understand. This comic book has been around for years. So that would actually make sense. That would be more like Jack Parsons, because, yeah, Parsons was quite some time ago.
- [92:05]
A
Well, it was actually Tony Stark's dad is Jack Park. So that's how it goes. But that's also a sort of myth of, you know, superheroes kind of plays into this too, with the hybrids and the elevated genetic class that they're going to try and push on people. Do you think that this imminent invasion is going to be sort of drug Induced or project Bluebeam or spiritual or all three. Three.
- [92:38]
B
Well, what, what, what we believe is that it's just going to fall flat on his face. It's going to.
- [92:43]
A
No one's interested in aliens, right?
- [92:46]
B
Yeah, no one's, no one is interested. I, I think that it, it will be of the violent variety. In other words, it'll be hostile aliens at first. And I think that there will be real human casualties and all. And. Yeah, what, I, what, You know, we're, we're just speculating now. I can't, I'm not saying defend, I'm not speaking here authoritatively.
- [93:10]
A
You know, everything we say on this show comes true eventually, so go ahead.
- [93:14]
B
But yeah, I, I believe. We believe that it'll kind of be a, a cosmic Gulf of Tonkin, an incident out at sea. And so drone technology is used. It attacks, it attacks an aircraft carrier. We'll make the hypothesis as we. An aircraft carrier kills six to ten US servicemen on it. And then like, and so then the news takes off. Was it, was it, was it, was it the Russians? Was it the Chinese? And then like all of a sudden like these otherworldly possibilities start to be entertained by all, by the new, by all the news pundits.
- [93:56]
C
Yeah.
- [93:56]
B
And so, and so for a very short period of time, you know, it, it captures the people's attention and, and they, then they entertain for a very short period of time that this was probably an alien attack. But then, like I said, the propulsion systems and the weapons deployed are going to be terrestrial nature.
- [94:20]
C
It's discernibly terrestrial.
- [94:22]
B
Scientists here will say, I recognize that stuff. Look, Daddy was a contractor at Boeing. He used to take us to the lab, he shown us this stuff. This is totally doable, or no, people
- [94:36]
A
that can recognize it are missing now because of all of the scientists that
- [94:40]
B
are being going, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, no, you're right. The, the people that are missing could have probably told you, like McCaslin, you know, we talked about him before it got on the show. There's a body of evidence that shows that McCaslin was actually a, a participant in this deception, that he was probably using Tom delong from, from to the STARS Academy, you know, as a, as a disinformation amplifier. And DeLong being just a strung out, unwitting goofball. He is, he, he just eats it up and believes it all wholesale. You know, it doesn't vet a thing that he's shown and all, you know, and so like you said, yeah, the people that, that, you know, would have been able to Be the whistleblowers there. They've, they've taken a trip.
- [95:32]
A
Have you seen these pastors coming out, these evangelical pastors saying, we've been to meetings, these disclosure meetings, that there's going to be some kind of religious dissemination of knowledge. Like, don't freak out, but the aliens are our space brothers and they want to.
- [95:50]
B
Yeah, I'm busy writing on that right now. In what's going to be the seventh installment of our series and I reveal what I. What. What we, we reveal, you know, what we think it's going. What, what we think this is what. You know, why, what, why are they. They didn't pull Perry Stone, but Perry Stone learned about it secondhand. But you know, these pastors that know Perry Stone, I forget the other, the ones named the Dayo or something like that. Why would they pull them into a room and tell them all this stuff? It looks to us to be a manifestation of what is called doctrinal warfare. And doctrinal warfare, you can find documents, I'm citing the documents in the article, but you can find documents about it at the Central Intelligence Agency's article own website up there where it describes what doctrinal warfare is. But you know, there's also a very good book over it by David Wim Hof, the American, American Proposal. Something like, something about, something to that effect. David Wim Hof wrote about this, but this is, but doctrinal warfare is where you attack your enemy by attacking his ideology and, and by, by manipulating his, the, the, his religious doctrines. You see his religious doctrines as one of the primary things energizing him, driving him to do what he's doing. So you try to change those doctrines up, you try to change up, you know, his religious ideology. And lo and behold, there is an, a nexus point that I go into that in the new article about a nexus point between ufo, UFO disinformation and doctrinal warfare. There, There was a guy, he was a CIA official named Nicholas de Rocheforth. And Nicholas De Rocheforth worked with an individual named Charles Lowry. Charles Lowry was a, a minister of some sort. I don't remember if it was Presbyterian. I don't have Wim Hof's book in front of me. But Wim Hof was this minister that worked with the CIA and worked, I believe, with the Nixon administration on doctrinal warfare and all. Well, the Rocheforth and, and, and Lowry got together and they started this, this day called Freedom Day. It was a psychological operation known as Freedom Day. And Freedom Day took place in Berlin, New Hampshire, not Berlin, Germany. Berlin, New Hampshire. And it was basically a celebration of the East Germans when they tried to shake off the chains of communism. The East German, the East German rebellion against the communists. And they erected a statue and everything, but the one representative who was a real, I mean, like right of center, kind of oriented, kind of deep State actor Charles J. Kirsten, he praised de Rochefort and Lowry for this, this, for this Freedom Day work, for this effort. And he praised them like I think it was on the floor of the House of Representatives. And he said that, you know, that this effort should shown that it would be really desirable to form a private organization for the purpose of psychological operations like Freedom Day. Well, what Jack Brewer, the researcher Jack Brewer has pointed out is that, is that after he made that suggestion on the floor of the House of representatives, like 27 months later, all of a sudden NICAP arose and guess who was one of the founding members, organizers of nicap, Nicholas de Rochefort. You know, so that's what I think we're is. So, so there is a intersection between UFO disinformation and doctrinal warfare. And you know, so doc, you, you UFO disinformation, UFO deception is actually might, it actually might be a manifestation, another manifestation of doctrinal warfare. And we see it at play with these pastors being called into this meeting and I think also being told and being told, hey, prepare your people.
- [101:04]
C
Yeah, why?
- [101:05]
B
What, you know, what's insinuated is you better, you better prepare your people because their beliefs are about ready to be shaken to their core. And, and what is it that, what is it that both David Grush and Lou Elizondo, two of the major UFO disinformation agents have at play right now have said, they've said that this has, that an alien reality has the potential of causing quote, unquote ontological shock. So, you know, that's what I think is at work here.
- [101:39]
C
I think also one of the reasons that they gathered to together the particular pastors that they did, apart from the fact that they're televangelists and so they reach nationwide audiences. But they, they, these, these pastors also seem to be dispensationalist. And dispensationalism you, you find with dispensationalism
- [102:05]
B
this
- [102:08]
C
proclivity towards apocalypticizing history and segmenting history up into certain phases. And that was never an orthodox Christian theological practice that actually began with people like the 12th century Calabrian abbot and hermit Joachima Fiorent, who advanced a neo gnostic eschatology. He apocalypticized history by configuring it according to his trinitarian eschatology. Within that eschatology, each hypostasis of the Trinity, each one of the persons comprising the Trinity represented a specific historical phase. So the pre Christian era was divided into the age of the Father who represented the Old Testament. And then of course the next age was the age of the Son who represented the New Testament. You kind of have echoes there of Marcion and Marcion's dichotomizing of the Old and New Testament and basically portraying them as antagonistic, an antagonistic binary. And then the third apocalyptic age of Joachim's eschatology was the age of the Holy Spirit, which, surprise, surprise, Joachim declared himself the prophet of. He was the self proclaimed prophet of the third age or the age of the Holy Spirit. And during that age, the Church, sacred scripture, the state, all would basically wither away almost in a Marxian sense. They would evaporate and give way to a free communist world. And Joachim basically echoed ancient Gnosticism's docetistic attitude toward physical embodiment by asserting that in that final age man would divest himself of the corporeal shell of, of his flesh and entered and enter into disembodied blitz. But after Joachim, you have the 17th century German cobbler Jacob Boehm, or some people pronounce it Burma. I've heard it pronounced both ways. But he inspired the English communist Gerard Winstanley. But Boehm again following the lead of Marcian, advanced this bifurcated conception of God to reflect what he perceived as two contrary natures. God of the Old Testament again embodied wrath, while the God of the New Testament embodied love. And these two contrary natures were just mirrors, nothing more than mirrors of human consciousness and history was this evolutionary or dialectical process by which these binary essences were reconciled. Now while Boehm's ideas closely parallel Gnostic emanationist speculation, there's this significant point of departure. Ancient Gnosticism expressed a docetistic cosmological attitude toward the, toward the descent of divinity into materiality that would for the ancient Gnostic be the horror of horrors. God would not sully himself with the physical world. But on Boeing, Boeing believed that divinity descended into materiality as an essential phase in God's self revelation. God did not create out of felt, out of love. He created out of felt need. And the whole purpose of creation was so that God could discover himself. And God in essence was man. Man was an amnestic deity and a divine amnesiac. But we move along with These, these, these amanitous eschatologies and we finally arrive at Hegel and Hegel's dialectic and you know, history, history again. It's this dialectical process where the thesis and the antithesis collide and we have, have a synthesis and, and where, where these, these dialectically related ideational entities are somehow reconciled or at least the, the, the dialectical commonalities of those ideational entities are synthesized and we have a brand new dialectic on and on headed towards this glorious terminus. And then of course, that the dialectic was atheized, it was reinterpreted in an atheist context by Karl Marx and became, you know, the dialectical materialism. But, but if you look at, if you look at dispensationalism, dispensationalism follows these same sort of, the, the, these same sort of schematics where you have the segment, the segment, segmentalizing of history off into essential phases and the dispensationalist of, you know, the dispensationalism of the modern American evangelical predisposes them to the acceptance of these amanitous eschatologies. And once more you have an amanitist eschatology being insinuated into public consciousness through the UFO narrative. We have again the transposition of the eschaton into the vacuum separating celestial bodies. Space now becomes the numinous surrogate for the supernature of Christian theology. Of course there's a complete and total rejection of the supernature. There is only nature. But with the rejection of supernature, all of the traits of supernature, all of the qualities of a super supernatural realm are transposed into the natural realm. And so again, we have aliens as being viewed as either God or angels or demons. Which leads to the two narrative paradigms that we see governing the UFO myth. Either the arrival of UFOs precipitating a crisis of diplomacy where we have to learn to now commune with these angelic visitors, or a crisis of a militaristic crisis, a crisis where we have to now, through militaristic means, oppose these invading demons.
- [109:37]
A
But I was just gonna ask you, do you think that one way they could play it is that the aliens have arrived to save us from some kind of nuclear destruction of ourselves, kind of like day the earth. So still, you know, they intervene because we can't be trusted with our own planet. Now we have to listen to what they have to say.
- [110:00]
B
No, absolutely, absolutely. I mean that, that, that was that. If you look at the whole, the Contactee phenomenon which started pretty much started with George Adamski, which was a deep state manipulation and all the those, those, the, the stories that would come out of those contactee incidents, those contactee cases always involved nuclear, nuclear weapons in some way. George Adamski, that, with George Adamski, they talked to him about the nuclear weapons with all these other individuals that they talked about. Well, what, what, what attracted us to you, what, what brought us here was, you know, we saw these, you know, these nuclear tests or we saw this bomb going off, you know, which was Nagasaki or Hiroshima. And all. In the book, in the book invoking the beyond, we we point out that basically the whole. The the the the beyond invoked as, as a super weapon, AKA the the nuclear bomb acted as a midwife for the, for. For the beyond evoked us aliens. Yeah. We cite a document, a Rand document, a Rand study in our, in our book. And in that Rand study, a, a doctor, a scientist, I believe his name was James Lip lp. In that Rand document, Lip suggest that it might have been some test at El Gordo or, or, or, or the Hiroshima bomb and all that actually drew their attention to us and all. And so you know, Lip, whether he meant to or not, there what his, his suggestion, his, his little hypothesis, you know, became the source of inspiration for the, for the different covert political circles that would, you know, begin foisting this alien deception upon us. They, they, you know, that. Well, how are we going to explain these aliens taking, taking such an intense interest on, on the, on the pale blue dot? Ah, well, they of course they took. They, they because you know, we created this, this destructive weapon and, and it, and it, it was too, it was too big of an event for them not to notice that. And so now they have to come here and tell us, hey, you know, you're going to destroy yourselves and possibly destroy us in the process because the radiation will spread to the rest of the cosmos.
- [112:59]
C
You know, interestingly enough too. And that returns us to the theme of an exotheological Christ and the Day the Earth Stood Still. What is of course the, the name of the, of the visiting alien messiah. It it's Carpenter and which is a conspicuous allusion to Jesus the Carpenter and that. So and you you see this chronically throughout, you know, throughout again throughout science fiction literature and films as is now a completely and totally reinterpreted, reinvented exotheological Christ.
- [113:45]
B
So, so what you're saying is totally possible. And we even, you know, suggest that in the book, whatever, whatever the aliens are giving us a guilt Trip over. That's where the manipulation lies. And they're always giving us a guilt trip over something. Why are you so destructive with your planet? Why do you. Why, you know, do you, do you pollute the streams and the little squirrels have nowhere to.
- [114:09]
A
Yeah.
- [114:10]
B
Rest their little heads now. Oh, why are you so warlike? They're always chastising us for being so destructive with all at the same time that they're being destructive with our bodies. Anal probing them and, And, Yeah, and,
- [114:26]
A
and, and just out chunks of flesh and.
- [114:29]
B
Yeah. To putting us through all these sexual humiliation rituals. But you're the destructive ones.
- [114:35]
C
Yeah.
- [114:35]
B
Shame on you. You know, why has no, why has no abductee. I think Charles Upton has even pointed that out. Why has no update turned around and shamed them for the way that they're being victimized?
- [114:48]
C
Yeah.
- [114:50]
A
You know we didn't consent to this, right? They don't consent.
- [114:54]
C
Yeah, there's. There's an interesting scene in the, in the director's cut of the Abyss, you know, James Cameron's film. In the director's cut, the, the aliens actually arrived to pass judgment on humanity to actually. It's actually a, an extraterrestrial perusia. And they are, you know, they are here to separate the, the, the, the sheep from the goats. And at one point they're threatening to basically flood the world again. It's so allusions to Noah's flood, only now reinterpreted as a form of extraterrestrial judgment. Their, Their, their technology, which is somehow all aquatically based, allows them to. To basically, basically surround the, the cities of the world with just these walls of water, and they're preparing to, to basically drown all of humanity. And Ed Harris's character is, you know, they're trying to plead the case for
- [116:06]
B
humanity, which is doing an overhaul, I might say, to the great flood of the Bible. Yes.
- [116:11]
C
Yeah.
- [116:11]
A
Well, don't you think it's weird that's called the abyss? And that's like a cross Cruelian thing that you.
- [116:17]
C
Yeah, but, but at this one point, Ed Harris's character says, well, who are you to judge us? And interestingly, the, the, the aliens don't answer his question. They don't answer his question at all. No, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's not, you know, it's not as though, you know, this is God and God is deontological source of all moral values. He. He paradigmatically defines good. He is the good, the capital G good, the ontological good. Ergo, questioning him Would. Would make no sense. Your, your questions would be stifled by the very fact that you are questioning Good himself. And that, that the alien silence to, to Ed Harris's question seems to suggest that they are God, that they are. That they are the. Are the ontological good, that they, they and they alone are, are so good that they can, you know, commit these acts of violence on us in order to stop all of our acts of violence.
- [117:34]
A
The cosmic morality police. I don't know if you guys like south park at all, but there is a really funny episode about when CERN came online. Remember when that happened? So in the episode in south park, they, they fire up CERN and the aliens, like, oh, we, they've got this technology now. We got to go visit them. So they come down and they give humanity a test. They, they like, fixed the economy by giving people space money, but they started hoarding all the space money, which is worthless, right? Just like fiat money is worthless. And so the humans made a whole big mess with the space money. And the aliens were like, that was just a test. And you are cut off from the rest of the universe because you believe in money. And they put them in a cube. They put the planet Earth in this, like, hypercube and went away to, you know, they quarantined Earth because humans were so dumb, basically in that show. But it's like what you're saying, like, they are the judge of who gets to evolve in the Galactic Federation or the Galactic civilization. So this is like something that people are going to be hearing more about, like, do you want to be part of the cosmos citizen or just an Earth citizen? And here's a curveball question for you guys. What do you think about the data centers? Oh, data centers, yeah, or they call them fusion centers. A new development that you might want to look into. But what do you think?
- [119:11]
B
This is just the latest manifestation of this, of this strategy of kill the natives, take the land. Before this, we had, oh, Bill Gates and the Chinese buying up all the farmland. And, you know, there's just been. I remember back when we first began, began in the early days of our research and our writing. You know, one of the things we covered was the misuse of imminent domain. You know, imminent domain was re. Was overhauled to where the public good, you know, you can take land for the public good, all of a sudden became the corporate good. And there were people that were dispossessed of their land so a Walmart could go up. This seems to be another manifestation of kill the natives, take the land well,
- [120:07]
A
did you know that Walmart tries to find like burial grounds, ancient burial grounds to build their Walmarts on?
- [120:17]
B
I didn't know that. They're trying to incite poltergeist activities.
- [120:24]
A
When they find artifacts, they put them in a little case in the store. But this probably will have to be our last question because it's been over two hours and I really appreciate you guys time. I know you have your own lives and families, but have you heard of the Collins Elite story?
- [120:42]
B
Yes, yes, I'm going to talk about. We're. I keep on saying I, but we are going to talk about them somewhere in this series. By the way, the, the new series is going to eventually be compiled into a book, but I thought that we should do it in a serialized form because when I did, when we did Invoking the Beyond and as a book, it was like drinking from a fire hose. When you break things down into installments and do a serialized version, you can
- [121:11]
C
organize your thoughts a little bit more.
- [121:13]
B
A lot better. A lot better. And all the Collins, the Collins Elite is one of two things that so far as we can tell, the first possibility is that they are an absolute chimera. They do not exist. And the UFO deception circles are using this myth to try to shut down any and all religious opposition to what they're saying. There's that possibility. Something that supports that possibility is you go to the first book that ever talked about this, Nick Redfern's Final Events. He only presents one document, I mean one sold like document that he shows a picture of that you know, that that points to the existence of this Collins Elite. And so it's like you'd expect more of a paper trail. Even the most secretive of groups, the Jason Society or the Builder Burger, Bohemian Grove, there's more of a forensic trace and you do enough digging, you're able to find them and all. Okay, so the second possibility is that they are quite real, but they're not what people think they are. And the reason, okay, now what supports this? What supports the idea that they're real? Okay. When I first I read Final Events about two or three years ago, when I first heard about it when the book came out, I was like, it's completely ridiculous. He doesn't support it. But. But then what caused me to kind of change my mind and to entertain the possibility, at least that was real, was that I read Louis Elizondo's book Imminent and all, and all of a sudden he's talking about the Collins Elite in his book as well. And so it's like, you know, well, that. That means that. That, that they might be. Elizondo is a pervasive liar, but. But, you know, a pathological liar. But, you know, maybe it mean. Maybe if he's saying it now, you know, maybe there's some substance to it, you know, but everybody thinks that the Collins Elite is this Christian group, this group of devout Christians. If you read though, what Nick. What. When Nick Redfern lays out what the Collins Elite told him and what they believe, they. They're. They're not Christians in the sense that we. Not apostolic, not from one of the apostolically based communions. They are. They're. They. They're more so Dominionist. They believe that, you know, the only way to counter these demonic entities parading around as aliens is to, is to reinstitute Old Testament law and, and to have a kind of Old Testament style theocracy. And that's not what. That's not what. You won't find that in the Anglican Communion. You won't find that in the Catholic Catholic communion, whether it be Byzantine Roman discipline. You won't find it with Orthodox, whether it be Eastern, Coptic. Any of the, you know, any of the more apostolically based Christian sects would look upon that and would be like, what? And all. And okay, did you get a. Did you ever read Final Event then? Okay. Was something I took note of in Final Events is that he makes. He made. Okay, the, The. The Anglican minister that was with Mufon, who's dead now. Bosch, he puts, he puts Redfern in contact with his, with his intermediary. His intermediary. His liaison, if you will, with the Collins Elite. The guy. The guy that is his liaison is from Offit Air Force Base. Well, who was operating out of Offit Air Force Base? Michael Aquino.
- [125:36]
A
Oh, no. Okay.
- [125:38]
B
And this. And again, dispensationalism plays a big. A big part in, in the, in the Collins Elite's beliefs and all. And dispensationalists. This will give them heartburn to hear this, but they have a symbiotic relationship with, with Satanist. And why did I say that? Well, John Nelson Darby, who, Who founded dispensationalism, was. Came from the Plymouth Brethren. Guess who else came from the Plymouth Brethren? Crawley and Aleister Crowley while he left the Plymouth Brethren. He did. Still he kept. They kept their, their dispensationalist beliefs and just incorporated it into his own unique kind of thelemic Satanism. So, so, you know, the, this group looks superficially Christian. Yeah, it's not. But it's not. You know, that's something that, you know. One more thing I'll add to that. You know, they, another suggestion that they say they're Christian and they're not. They're actually working with diabolical forces. In the book Final Events, he points out that they made contact that the. Colin. He says that what he was told by these, by the These. His liaison with the Collins Elite is that the Collins Elite made contact with and actually actively collaborated with Operation Often. And Operation Often began weaponizing Satanism. They were doing all sorts of experiments
- [127:13]
A
into Satanism and Often was the wishes and stuff. Right.
- [127:16]
B
Yeah. That they, they Operation Often turned to turn to civil leak and, and civil in used civil leak to get into contact with. With witches covens and, and different satanically themed occult bookstores here in the United States so that they could start getting different occult figures of the Satanic variety. There she is.
- [127:47]
A
That's your girlfriend.
- [127:51]
C
Check out those sexy buck teeth.
- [127:52]
A
Yeah, right.
- [127:56]
B
Yeah, she's five or six beers before. No, but so, so, you know, so they say that they're, they say that, that they're the, the, the, the, the belief is, is that they are a Christian group, but they're, they're not, they're more so. They're more so. They, they, they're more so a, A, a, a, A kind of gnostic flavored kind of pseudo Christian group that actually might, that actually seems to be in contact with and coll. Diabolical forces with, with Satanic forces which shouldn't surprise anybody at all again, because, you know, because, because the, the, the, the Plymouth Brethren gave us both Crawley and gave us John Nelson Darby and you know, so there's, you know, there's a symbiosis there as a result.
- [128:59]
C
The thing that people don't seem to understand understand too is when you invoke the appellation of Christian, you can use Christian vocabulary. And Gnostics did quite a bit, quite prolifically as, as did, you know, several other heretical groups. They, they use Christian vocabulary but it's understood according to a very different dictionary. It's. If you don't, if you don't, you know, if you're not privy to the hermeneutic according to which the Christian vernacular is being understood, then you, you could easily mistake, you know, you could easily mistake anything that you hear as Christian. And, and you know, and, and this
- [129:48]
B
is, this is, this is, this is nothing new.
- [129:51]
C
The, the, the, the Dominionists. The Dominionists are just one more installment in a series of Emanitus eschatologies that before, you know, before them there was Jacob, there was a Joachima Fior, there was Jacob Burma, you know, Karl Marx, Karl Marx, of course, falling from Hegel. And Karl Marx also echoed, uh, English English Civil War, millennial sex and post Millennial, Dutch and German Anabaptist, all of which invoke Christian vocabulary but not towards Christian ends. Certainly not invoked in, according to the traditional Christian hermeneutic. It's to, it's invoked in a very different sense.
- [130:43]
B
One more, one more thing and this is probably excavating a little bit deeper than what you, he wanted to go and I don't know if I can like organize all my thoughts right now regarding, you know, this, this point, but I, I do want to point, put this out there because I'm going to write about it at a certain point. America's oligarchy is, is not monolithic. It's not like it's one group that leads up to one central command. You know, it's not, it's not Ernst Stavros Blofeld leading all of Specter and all of Specter follows his, his words with undying obedience. It's a constellation of groups that actually in, are involved in constant internecine warfare. And, and two of the big power blocks here in the United States would be the liberal Eastern establishment, which are like power circles that you can find in the northeastern United States and in the, on the east coast coming out of the Ivy League schools. They would be the Atlanticist, the globalist as we, you know, understand them and all. But then another power block that's not too often talked about on any shows nowadays that was, that was actually brought to, brought to light by New left scholars like Carl Oglesby and Kirkpatrick Sales are the Southern Rim. And the Southern Rim are these elites that basically are located below the 37th parallel of the country in places like Texas, Arizona, Louisiana, Florida, portions of California, Nevada, that, places like that, areas like that. And they're, they, they, they're, they are a little bit different from the, from the Eastern liberal establishment. The Eastern liberal establishment are cartel capitalist. They're entrepreneurial capitalist. The Eastern liberal establishment kind of would seek rapprochement with the communists. The Southern Rim virulently anti communist and, and, and long story short, long way around Harvey's Barn. You listen you, when you read what Nick Redfern put out about what, what, what the, what the Collins elite believe when he, what he wrote about what they believe about their, you know, precepts, you you you see that those precepts are more. Are found more in Southern Rim Southern Rim circles than they are liberal Eastern establishment circles and all the whole How Lindsay late plate, great late great Planet Earth left behind kind of stuff. That's more that. Those kind of, those kind of beliefs are found more among, among the foot soldiers and the cadres of the, of the Southern of the Southern Rim. So, so you know, the, the, the, the Collins elite might be a UFO deception circle that represents Southern Rim interest as opposed to a liberal Eastern establishment interest. The deception takes on different manifestations depending on which power block is behind that particular part of the deception.
- [134:40]
A
Don't you think it's interesting how the Rapture is a lot like abduction?
- [134:47]
C
Oh yeah, very much so. Very much. That's in essence what you have at the end of, of Close Encounters of the Third Kind is is a rapture of the kids.
- [134:58]
A
Of course, they always want the children. Right?
- [135:00]
B
Yeah, of course.
- [135:01]
C
The the elector, the elect are gathered into the sky and the, you know, the, the rest the, the rabble, the. The damned are left on Earth. And it doesn't surprise because you know, the, the Rapture is completely a modern innovation, you know, originating with the Scofield Bible.
- [135:21]
B
And, and again
- [135:24]
C
just, it's redolent of Gnosticism. It involves escaping the Earth, not the, the redemption of the Earth.
- [135:33]
B
And, and again like it gives them heartburn to hear this, but they share more in common with the, with this, with the Satanists that they claim to be opposed to. They, they. You know, we used to work with, with Michael Corbin, the syndicated talk show host down south of where we are in, in Colorado. We were really, really good friends with him and wrote for his journal and appeared on his show while he was still life. But there was, there was, there was one writer that he had on his show named Roy Blake and R. Roy Blake wrote this book, book called Objective Evil which is damn near impossible to find now. You just can't find it anywhere. This book has been effectively suppressed. If there's anybody out there that can find it, I'd almost pay anything. I don't any. Almost any price. Blake. And it's Objective Evil. Yeah, yeah. BL A K E I read. Oh I got several other books that he wrote all these, but that one book, Objective Evil you can't find anywhere. Michael was going to give me a copy of it, but then he passed on before it happened and all of his estate went to some. Somebody else.
- [136:49]
A
Oh no.
- [136:50]
B
But anyways, our Roy Blake appeared on one of my Michael's show before he was doing a closer lyric, the Paranet Continuum. And our Roy Blake pointed out, he was like, you know, there's this strange kind of relationship between evangelicals and Satanists. There are. There are Satanists, former Satanists that become evangelicals, and then there's evangelical ministers that are reputed to be secret Satanist. He's like, there's. And it's like. I was like. I was like, well, I wonder why. What, What's. Where did this symbiosis come from? What did. And then I looked into the Plymouth Brethren, this really Gnostic sect of Christianity, and, And saw that, well, there's. There's probably one of the reasons why,
- [137:36]
C
because I'm in point of origin, the
- [137:38]
B
common point of origin for John Nelson Darby and. And Aleister Crowley. You know, it's. So they. They both end up sharing a lot in common as a result of their. Of. Of their point of order. They came from the same place, you know, so.
- [137:55]
A
Yeah, that's crazy. Are you guys gonna see Disclosure, the Steven Spielberg movie?
- [138:02]
B
I have to see it now because I sat through.
- [138:05]
C
We.
- [138:06]
B
We do.
- [138:07]
C
We have to.
- [138:08]
A
Okay, yes, you have to.
- [138:10]
B
Part seven, the seventh installment in our series. We started to go. We. We went into the Age of Disclosure, the Dan Farah movie. The. The d. The Dan Farah documentary that came out because it has all of the OSAP A tip fraternity on it. They're on full display. Lou Elizondo is throughout the whole thing. They show Davis Grush briefly, how putoff is there. Eric W. Davis is there, Jay Stratton, all of those guys. All of them were in it. So, so, so I was like, well, I have to go into it. We can't go into it unless I sit. We sit and watch it. I sat and watched all 120some odd minutes of. I. I had to bear through that. So now I have to bear through. Through Disclosure Day and all. One of the reasons being is because Dan Farah, who directed and produced Day of Disclosure Closure, worked with Spielsburg on Ready Player One.
- [139:16]
A
Oh, which is Gnostic, by the way, right?
- [139:20]
B
Yeah. Which is Gnostic as hell. So it looks to me like, like, okay, like what. What they're doing right now is they're like, okay, well, phase one will release. Will release the documentary and then. And then phase two will release the entertainment, the fictionalized version and give the same message. And the reason for that, I'll.
- [139:47]
C
I'll try to make this as brief as possible. The reason for that is. Is that through the, the medium of fiction, you. You can find this out by reading a. A literary essay by a literary scholar by the name of Martha A. Barter. It's. It's an essay entitled Normative Fiction. She explains how through the willing suspension of disbelief, audiences. Audiences question the. The status quo, the present status quo. They press, they question their present convictions, and they engage in what is what I believe it was John Campbell. John Campbell, who, of course, you know, wrote. Who goes there and. And famous science science fiction author, what he. What he called social, sociocultural gedanken experiments, or gedanken experiment being German for thought experiments. And through. Through the. The audiences actually engage in these things. Thought experiments. And through these thought experiments, you see the gradual change of the status quo, the gradual revision, gradual and very subtle revisions to the status quo. And that's why she refers to science fiction as normative fiction. Normative meaning. You know, normative meaning an odd normative theory you always posits an ought. How things ought to be like. Normative economics deals with how an economic system ought to work. Likewise, normative fiction posits an ought an ought concerning society, concerning the world, concerning governmental processes, concerning culture. And so you'll see, I guarantee you'll see certain subtle normative claims insinuated into the narrative of the upcoming Spielsberg movie. Although I. I kind of even doubt it'll be subtle because Spielsburg gets so. Just bombastically preachy. That's one of the reasons John Carpenter. John Carpenter, as a filmmaker hates Spielsberg because he finds his work to be just so preachy and so. So freaking overwrought.
- [142:24]
A
Yeah, it is over the top in the symbolism too. And you reminded me when you were talking about E.T. so remember the poster of E.T. his finger is pointing to the human chapel.
- [142:34]
B
Yeah. Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel portrait.
- [142:38]
C
Yeah, that's. That's a clear. That's a clear allusion to that. You know what the. The original script for Close Encounters, what it was titled, it was written by Paul Schaefer, who of course wrote Taxi Driver. And I believe he. He also wrote, uh, uh, I. I can't remember everything else.
- [143:02]
B
Crater. I think he did. I think the movie was called Auto Focus, which was about the guy from Hogan's Heroes and his strange death. Yeah. Yeah.
- [143:10]
C
Well, Paul Schrader.
- [143:11]
B
You know what his.
- [143:12]
C
His original script, which, by the way, Spielsberg originally hated. He initially hated it. But you know what the name, the title of that script was Kingdom Come.
- [143:23]
A
Oh, weird.
- [143:25]
B
Yep. Kingdom Come.
- [143:26]
C
So you have. You have the intimations of an Amanit Perusia of a, of an extraterrestrial second coming. And interestingly enough, the, the, the main character in Kingdom Come, which was just completely overhauled and rewritten into Close Encounters of the Third Kind, the main character was supposed to be patterned after St. Paul. And this is, this is his Damascus Road experience. And lo and behold, what happens to Richard Dreyfus's character in Close Encounters. He's in his truck and he witnesses what a blinding light. Here we have a clear allusion to the Damascus Road experience, although it's now being reinterpreted in an exotheological context.
- [144:25]
A
Yeah, great point. And do you remember that show, the X Files? So when that was on in the 90s, I remember it was a big deal when they were like, stay tuned after X Files because we're going to show you the footage of the UFO crash or this like uncovered footage that they had found where they were doing an alien autopsy. That was. Yeah. And we were at the Roswell Museum and they had a thing set up just like it, like a alien autopsy. And I'm like, this is the goofy, goofy stuff. They were trying to push us off on us in the 90s as like real, you know, underground, like leaked footage. And it was all like, goofy, you know, you.
- [145:11]
B
Yeah, I know.
- [145:12]
C
It's like real cheesy rubber sci fi stuff. The stuff that, that MST3K like.
- [145:20]
A
Yeah, exactly. Mystery Science Theater stuff. Well, I could hang out with you guys all night. Looks like we have a lot to talk about. So would you come back after, after the Steven Spielberg movie and do another show with me?
- [145:34]
B
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
- [145:36]
A
This was all a preamble to your guys's amazing two part article, which we barely even got to because we were just kind of going through Gnosticism and the aliens first. But how it all is going to play out in the future with AI and the interface that AI is going to become sort of like a Ouija board.
- [145:57]
B
Absolutely. Yeah.
- [145:59]
C
Yeah, we, we touch on that. Citing the El Cerrito case.
- [146:03]
B
Yeah, the else. No, most people have never even talked about that. It was a wild and crazy case. Most people don't even. It's a, it's a, it's a part of American history that most people don't know about. Yes, but, but the Ouija board was actually outlawed in one city in the United States back in the 1920s and because caused the, the cause of cross section of that population there to go apeshit. I won't say it, but go nut. Yeah, I mean, and, and you know, most people don't know that there's an actual pathology that comes from the use of Ouija boards that known as mediumistic psychosis.
- [146:50]
C
That lo and behold, now we have an emergent psychological phenomena that is only now being broached by psychiatric journals, which is called. Called AI psychosis. So you see these parallels between the non compos mentis that's induced through the use of the Ouija board and the non compos mentis induced through the, the constant. The constant consulting with AI and the question that we ask, you know, the, the, the, the second half of the article, the first half of the article is more or less just the standard treatment of transhumanism. But we, we basically, we basically just completely debunk transhumanism on the grounds that, that for all practical purposes, AI is, is a chimera.
- [147:49]
B
The, the.
- [147:51]
C
A, the, the assumption is that consciousness will arise from computation, but that's not even possible. Computation finds its ontological source in consciousness, which, you know, is not what. It's not what AI is. AI is not by.
- [148:12]
B
You're putting the cognitive cart before the horse.
- [148:16]
C
And what, what, what AI hard AI theoreticians and transhumanists tend to do is they tend to assign a positive ontological status to information. They, they, they ontologize information. And the fact is, is that information is ontologically inert, just like the physical laws of the universe are ontologically inert. The law of gravity doesn't create gravity. It simply describes gravity. The arithmetic information. Two plus two makes four doesn't give you four of anything. It just describes for you an arithmetic process. The combination of two plus two making four. You can say two plus two make four all day long, but it won't put $4 in your pocket. So it's ontologically inert. Information is ontologically inert, but they have ontologized it and elevated it to the status of supreme reality. But it's not, it's. It's. It's all a chimera. It's all a fiction. And so the question we ask is, since AI is just a fiction, since this is, you know, nothing more than just a case of anthropomorphic projectionism. Because that's what the transhumanist and the AI theoreticians do. They project anthropic qualities onto the computers that they exalt. Which is ironic given the fact that Feuerbach accused Christians of anthropomorphic projectionism, you know, with their belief in God. It's actually more so the scientific materialists now who are engaging in anthropomorphic projectionism. But given the fact that this is all a chimera, what is it that the transhumanists and the AI theoreticians are actually interfacing with?
- [150:10]
B
Yeah, I mean, the AI doesn't have any sentience of its own, and it never will. But is something sentient talking through it?
- [150:19]
C
Just like through a Ouija board could have done that through a keyboard, you know?
- [150:24]
A
And is this the same thing that they've been invoking from the beyond?
- [150:28]
C
Yes.
- [150:29]
A
Okay.
- [150:30]
C
That's the. The beyond as technological singularity.
- [150:33]
B
You know, like whether it's. Whether it's ritual beds or. Or a Ouija board or. Or pack of tarot cards or a keyboard, you might be interfacing with. With something that's beyond you and you don't dictate the terms of that relationship. And, you know, and that's. That's true even for these Deep State actors that believe that they have it all down and they have every contingency covered. You know, they. They don't dictate the terms to do, so they. You know, they're going to find themselves in a world of hurt, too.
- [151:11]
A
You know, it's the Faustian age, too, where you don't know what you are contacting, and they could be deceiving you. Right. And you think you're controlling them, but they are really controlling you. Thank you guys so much. This was awesome. I can't wait to do part two. That was the perfect setup for our sequel. And I really enjoy tonight's talk. So everybody go get a couple issues of Cultural Engineering Studies, and I'm going to get another copy of Invoking the Beyond for this place. So thank you guys, and everybody have a good night.
- [151:48]
C
Thank you, Jamie.
- [151:49]
B
Good night now.
- [151:50]
A
Bye.