Backrooms & Obsession DECODED, Flood Myths, Atlantis & Megaliths, Bing Bang & Cold War Hollywood

Summary

Jay'sAnalysis Podcast Episode Summary

Episode Title: Backrooms & Obsession DECODED, Flood Myths, Atlantis & Megaliths, Bing Bang & Cold War Hollywood
Host: Jay Dyer
Date: June 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Jay'sAnalysis features Jay Dyer discussing and dissecting recent movies (Backrooms and Obsession) and delving into broader topics like metaphysics, internet horror lore, the psychology of modern relationships, philosophical arguments for the existence of God, and the hidden history of Cold War intelligence and technology. The episode alternates between Dyer’s signature blend of sharp analysis, irreverent humor, and live callers, touching also on the theological underpinnings and social critiques within the films. Key throughlines include the dangers of self-deception, idolatry, trauma, and the metaphysics of 'the backrooms.'

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Key Discussion Segments

1. Cringe Core Humble Rap and Satirical Social Commentary

Timestamps: 02:03–10:00

• Jay opens with a tongue-in-cheek musical segment lampooning internet culture, influencer grifting, and consumer society with absurd “cringe core” mumble rap.
• Quotes:
  • “Just give me one more super chat, Piggy… I want my picture of you groping my ass to be on social media.” (Jay, 03:22)
  • “How do I monetize these people? Please. I like money and I like shoes.” (Jay & Caller/Viewer, 07:02–08:07)
• Tone: Self-satirical, meta-ironic, poking fun at online hustle culture and the commodification of identity.

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2. Open Calls: Listener Questions & Philosophical Arguments

Timestamps: 12:03–43:00

• Orthodox Christianity & Conversion: Jay discusses his toughest theological hurdle when converting—moving from Augustinian/Calvinist paradigms to Orthodox synergy.

  “The thing that cured all that was getting really heavy into Christology and understanding synergy…" (Jay, 15:28)

• Nephilim & Occult History: Callers reference Tolkien’s Uruk-Hai as a metaphor for genetic hybridization and Nazi/radical occult rituals, with Jay drawing parallels to modern super-soldier myths and wider cultural lore.

  “The Urukai is a warning against genetic alteration and hybrid stuff.” (Jay, 18:36)

• Transcendental Argument for God: Jay robustly presents and defends the transcendental argument (TAG) in a live debate with a skeptical caller, explaining the philosophical grounding for belief in God.
  • “Any knowledge claim or the possibility of knowledge at all requires preconditions or transcendental categories… God is the only type of being that could ground them.” (Jay, 24:11)
  • Jay, frustrated with sophistic callers, lays out a deductive form: “Knowledge requires preconditions... preconditions require God... therefore God exists.”
• Scriptural Textual Authority: Discussion centers on the Orthodox Church's reliance on the Septuagint versus the Protestant/Masoretic approach, and nuances in apostolic usage.

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3. Hollywood, Espionage, and Cold War Tech

Timestamps: 43:00–65:00

• Jay on Reading Tragedy and Hope: Advice on digesting Carroll Quigley's magnum opus; integrating his own lectures for context amid the dense text.
  • “It is a laborious task… but it’s also a good reference book. You could open it up to any page and get lost for 15 minutes.” (Caller + Jay, 44:54)
• Private Intelligence & Mormon Mafia: Jay dives into books like "Spooks" and connections between CIA, Mormonism, and Howard Hughes, and recounts his RT International interview regarding AI, Palantir, and surveillance culture.
• Cold War Conditioning & SETI: Discussion on SETI, mass surveillance, and the idea that Cold War psychology acclimated the West to total surveillance.
  • “All of the things that we've adopted… began in that generation prior to or post World War II, where it was the gradual breaking down of people being private.” (Caller, 63:12)
  • “Your cell phone is something out of the spy world, out of the Cold War, in your daily life now.” (Jay, 63:36)

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4. Film Analysis: "Obsession"

Timestamps: 81:41–107:34

• Themes: Obsession, incel/gamma male psychology, the friend zone, idolatry, and the Monkey’s Paw/Liminance (projecting a fantasy onto a person).
• Plot Breakdown:
  • Bear (main character) represents the ‘gamma male’—suffers from unrequited love and projects his own ideal onto Nikki rather than seeing her as she is.
  • Through a magic “wishing willow,” Bear wishes for Nikki to become obsessed with him, resulting in demonic possession—a metaphor for toxic obsession and the dangers of self-centered fantasy.
  • The film is also positioned as a dark comedy, particularly poignant in its portrayal of how self-deception leads to misery.
• Key Analysis Points:
  • “The nice guy is the gamma facade for a vengeful, cowardly gamma male… Bear’s not a good guy, and Nikki kind of sensed that.” (Jay, 99:43)
  • The story critiques both sides of modern dating: feminism’s excesses and men’s ungrounded entitlement.
• Memorable Moment:
  • Bear’s realization that after magically getting what he wants, he is more miserable than ever—a moral against trying to bend reality (or people) to your private will.

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5. Film Analysis: "Backrooms"

Timestamps: 114:37–154:30 (with deep dives through to episode end)

a) Metaphysics and Liminal Horror

• The backrooms represent a labyrinthine alternate reality; its geometry is frozen in a nostalgic late-20th-century aesthetic—a metaphor for cultural, spiritual, and temporal stagnation.
• Key insight: “The back rooms are really a synthesis between a real place and a place that your history and past and memories import upon it. So there’s an observer and observed synthesis, reality going on, kind of like a dream state…” (Jay, 126:59)
• Each character manifests their own traumas, fears, and histories within these infinite, mutable office spaces.
• Clark’s “monster” is himself—the most shameful version of his persona.
  • “That was the most humiliating and worst version of Clark in Clark’s mind. So the demon manifested as Clark himself in the worst version of Clark. This was so obvious...” (Jay, 134:23)

b) Existential and Esoteric Symbolism

• The film draws on Kabbalistic, Crowleyan, and Buddhist metaphysics:
  • Jay connects the “NeverEnding Story” scene (Moonchild) directly to Crowleyan ideas of potentiality and Kabbalistic Ein Sof—the formless, primordial abyss.
  • “The back rooms are like the nothing… eating up into our reality.”
• Clark rejects responsibility and fully chooses the safety and oblivion of the back rooms—a type of “hell of one’s own making.”
• Dr. Klein’s arc—the therapist—is framed as a test of overcoming childhood trauma, hoarding, and agoraphobia.
  • The backrooms, for each person, become a custom hell that mirrors and amplifies individual trauma and delusion.
  • “Her whole sequence, dude, where she’s on the run, I just thought that was awesome... in the esoteric occult sphere, a lot of esoteric writers talk about confronting this sort of demonic entity before you cross the abyss. That’s essentially what’s happening here.” (Jay, 151:29)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On "Obsession":
  • “A lot of times we think that if we just will what we want to be the case, we’ll be happy. And providentially, the world is structured such that there are delineations and limitations that will prevent us from getting what we think we want. And that’s actually for our own good.” (Jay, 100:03)
• On "Backrooms":
  • “I made the mistake of opening the window and I let him in.” (Jay, analyzing Clark, 127:29)
  • “He says, I don’t want to go back to reality... I would rather live in this lie than be in a reality where I have to change myself.” (Jay, 139:14)
  • “Each time a different character would enter the back rooms, there were elements of their past or their life that they would encounter…” (Jay, 118:58)
  • “The metaphysics and the logic of it constantly kind of don’t make sense. And that’s the secret horror of the backrooms—not the monster—it's that you don’t know what metaphysical insanity it’ll pull on you.” (Jay, 144:30)

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Unique Analytical Insights

• Jay unpacks the “backrooms” horror meme as a deep philosophical statement on nostalgia, lost meaning, and existential limbo in late capitalism/modernity.
• Draws explicit parallels between “backrooms,” the nothingness in “NeverEnding Story,” and Kabbalistic notions of the infinite potential void (Ein Sof).
• Warns against spiritual idolatry (using “Obsession” as allegory) and the dangers of using magic or will to force personal desire—always producing a “curse,” not happiness.
• Frames both films as indictments of contemporary culture: atomization, tech-induced alienation, and narcissistic self-deceit.

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Final Thoughts

Jay Dyer’s trademark style shines throughout: blending high-level metaphysical, theological, and philosophical analysis with pop-culture breakdowns and wry humor. He makes “Backrooms” and “Obsession” into spiritual allegories for the modern condition, using the films as jumping-off points for larger discussions on knowledge, God, grifting, trauma, and the pitfalls of contemporary society.

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For Further Listening:

• Backrooms Metaphysics: Philosophy Compilation
• Tragedy & Hope Deep Dives
• Earlier episodes exploring Gnostic media, occult symbolism, and Cold War psy-op culture.

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Note: Timestamps refer to minutes:seconds into the episode's main content, after introductory ads and preamble.

Transcript

[Jay Dyer]

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[Caller/Viewer]

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[Jay Dyer]

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[Jay Dyer]

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[Jay Dyer]

Wage cut Ain't no way to be alive don't make me go back to

[Caller/Viewer]

95

[Jay Dyer]

wait to be alive baby

[Caller/Viewer]

just give me one more super chat baby

[Jay Dyer]

just give me one more super chance hey piggy just give me one more super chance hey diggy just give me

[Caller/Viewer]

one boot when I'm with my boo One on one, miss two then he mix free yeah we had the baby she went Versace she want Gucci gotta lay down all my bands on the lambo Cause she don't like my vulva no no she got a diamond grill on her baby teeth Coolest kid in nursery ah but you know I'm not a materialist I'm not the ELL I flow with the transcendental argument Meeting Wittgenstein investigate my girl philosophically yeah do you know what I'm saying? I just want the money Just give

[Jay Dyer]

me one more super chance Piggy just give me one more super chance hey piggy just give me one more super chance hey piggy yeah just give me one Y straight up I'm sipping for you girl I want my heart want

[Caller/Viewer]

you in my world I see you

[Jay Dyer]

in the super chat I see you wanna go for me I see you

[Caller/Viewer]

on the only fans and you've got

[Jay Dyer]

my heart in your hand Please don't

[Caller/Viewer]

crush your girl I understand that I'm a simp but I'm proud I'm a

[Jay Dyer]

geek but I'm proud and I wanna feel your breaths at a convention I want my picture of you groping my

[Caller/Viewer]

ass to be on social media. I want my friends to see it on Discord.

[Jay Dyer]

I'm gonna upload it to my subreddit, and they all gonna see it. My friends, they gonna like it. They gonna retweet it. But I feel that it's gonna be

[Caller/Viewer]

the greatest moment of my life.

[Jay Dyer]

And I want you to be a

[Caller/Viewer]

part of it, girl. Yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

Don't make me go back to that 95. Wait. Cause ain't no way to be alive. Don't make me go back to 95. Just give me one more super chat. Just give me one more Cringe Core Wigs. Antium Mumble Rap is the next song, y'.

[Caller/Viewer]

All.

[Jay Dyer]

And all I'm gonna do is pick a corporate product. What's the worst corporate brand that you could think of? And I'm gonna. I'm just gonna repeat the brand names, right? Jc finney cone. Jc finney cone shield. Long john quiz. No. Pringle. Subway. Long john silver got the long john. Silver got the long john quiz. No.

[Caller/Viewer]

Triangle. Subway.

[Jay Dyer]

Jay calls you jcpenney calls you. Long john quiz. No. Triangle. Subway. Long john silver got the long john. Silver got the long john quiz. No. Pringle. Subway. Jaycee finney cone. Jill jcpenney call jill. Long john quiz. No. Pringle.

[Caller/Viewer]

Subway.

[Jay Dyer]

Long john silver got the long john. All you do is you repeat. Stupid corporate. But here we go. Fringe core. Humble rap.

[Caller/Viewer]

Fringe core.

[Jay Dyer]

I got that block. I got that blah. I got that Palantir. I got that Palantir. I got that Whale Fargo. I got that Whale Fargo. Tyler, no. Tyler, no. I got no beer Skull. I got no beer school. I got that DJ Max. I got that TJ Maxx. I got Balenciaga. I got Balenciaga. I got Balenciaga. I got Balenciaga. This is fun. I'm. I'm like a rapper now. I'm a rapper now. Dang. I just realized it. You bet. It's cringe. It's called cringe Core, dummy. Dude thinks he's on the cutting edge. The cusp of cut edge. Calling me Cringe.

[Caller/Viewer]

I need seven figures. I need seven figures. I need seven Figures,

[Jay Dyer]

bro. I got the following.

[Caller/Viewer]

I got 28,000. I got 200,000 on Tik Tok. How do I monetize these people? You know what I mean?

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, yeah.

[Caller/Viewer]

I like money and I like shoes. How do I build a business? I don't really care about how many followers I have.

[Jay Dyer]

From an Oriental to a boring rental wigger. I'm Ruslan and I'm A Boosie's proudest drinks for every dime Buy my merch just my ministry, my church I'm blessing God oh, J.D. please don't slay me I've been saving for a yacht Every itty bitty Whoopi got me fascinated Protecting my pride, my duty like Mufasa baby my testimony get me money Better watch a wigger I'll be back for more super chats like a. Yeah, it's about that time. I need to monetize some soft fight Christians. I need some money from them. That's my mission. And if I'm coming up against real Christians, run like hell not to take an L A J Don't make me play myself I'm heretic and for the dinner bell this my meal ticket Please don't make me fail Please, please, please Bro, I got the following.

[Caller/Viewer]

I got 28,000. I got 200,000 Tik Tok. How do I monetize these people? You know what I mean?

[Jay Dyer]

How do I monetize these people? Please.

[Caller/Viewer]

I like money and I like shoes.

[Jay Dyer]

How do I build a business? I don't really care about how many followers I have.

[Caller/Viewer]

I need seven figures. I need seven figures. I need seven figures. I just have fu money.

[Jay Dyer]

Last one, y'.

[Caller/Viewer]

All.

[Jay Dyer]

Y' all ready for this? Let's create lives. Space wise woman in the space wise Magical underwear fitting tight Magic underwear is feeling right. Space wise woman space wife let's create lives. I would like to have intimacy with you on the planet of Naboo Moment Space wise magic. Space More modern space Got the. It's a very toe body.

[Caller/Viewer]

He looks good.

[Jay Dyer]

Let's create lives Magic underwear Magic underwear is feeling right. Oh, yeah. Welcome, everybody. Everybody to the limit. Everybody to the limit. Show sponsors, of course. Chalk.com the best inst on the Internet. Head over to Chalk.com, use promo J60Live to get 60 off all those great products. You can unsubscribe at any time. That's j a y 60 l, I f e j 60 life. All right, we're back. Sorry, we had to cut the last stream a little short. So we do want to get to those super chats from the last go around. And we want to talk about the movies. And I do want to get back, obviously to the Nephilims with Father Stephen Young here talking to Tucker about the Nephilims. We want to get back to that. And we want to get into obsession, which I've had probably a hundred comments saying, please review obsession. And we're going to talk about the Backrooms Movie. I loved the Backrooms Movie. Every movie that comes out nowadays, of course, is immediately hated by everybody. Everybody hates movies now because, to be fair, most movies are sort of Woke DEI garbage, or at least in some way, propaganda. But every now and then, there are a gem or two in the rough. There's diamonds in the rough. Shine bright like a diamond. Shine right like a diamond. As my girl Rahana has says in her song. Now, I think it might be good to go ahead and get. Get out of the way the movies, and then we can move on to the call ins, the debates, the nephilims. I'll go ahead and go to the people who've been waiting because they might have something crazy to say. Let's see. Lincoln Carver. Sounds like some sort of old prairie prairie man from the Prairie Times. Lincoln. What's up, dude? Lincoln Carver the third.

[Caller/Viewer]

Hey, so, okay, a few days ago, you posted a post, it was some pastor in Dallas talking to, where the guy was suggesting that, you know, set up a debate with you and him or with you and Ruslan. Do you remember that? It was like, 10k on the line or something.

[Jay Dyer]

Yes. There was two different pastors. Well, Ruslan isn't a pastor, but Papa Bear Naturals suggested that they would donate $10,000 if a mega church pastor from Lake Point, which is what. I wasn't familiar with that. And then another. Another one was from. It was for Ruslan. Yeah.

[Caller/Viewer]

I just wanted to say, in that video, he mentions about how there's not a very big Orthodox population in Dallas. I actually go to an Orthodox church that is. I'm not even kidding. It's literally a minute down the road from his church, and it's literally probably triple the size of his church. So I just wanted tell you because I thought that was ironic. It was just stupid.

[Jay Dyer]

Is that. Is that the Lake Point guy? Is that where he is?

[Caller/Viewer]

Right.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay.

[Caller/Viewer]

He's literally like. I'm not even kidding. Like, a minute down the road. Me and my buddy were driving a church a couple days ago.

[Jay Dyer]

Interesting.

[Caller/Viewer]

And we were joking about how we passed his church, and it was literally right down the road. It's, like, twice the size. It's so stupid.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. That is, of course, he didn't reply. I don't. I don't expect him to. But. But, yeah, I didn't realize after I posted that I read it a little bit closer because I was in the car when I posted all that. And it actually says 10k to charity. So that's why Ruslan didn't Agree to it. If it was 10k to Ruson, he might have done it. Never mind. What's up, dude? What's up man? Never mind. You.

[Caller/Viewer]

How do you smell like Swiss cheese?

[Jay Dyer]

How do you know how I smell? You have smell o vision.

[Caller/Viewer]

I can just smell you, man, from a distance.

[Jay Dyer]

Swiss cheese.

[Caller/Viewer]

You can just tell sometimes what people smell like when they sweat.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, I'm not sweating right now because I just started, but I've got Alps, so I think I smell like wintergreen. I smell fresh like wintergreen.

[Caller/Viewer]

But if you sweat, will you smell like Swiss cheese?

[Jay Dyer]

No, I smell like onions like everybody else that sweats. So as a.

[Caller/Viewer]

Would you ever start an only fans and sell like.

[Jay Dyer]

I already have an only fans and it's yeah, it's me in my yogurt pants, which if you were around you would know that. But you're not a true fan. Joseph, what's up? That was some high tier trolling right there. What's up man?

[Caller/Viewer]

A.J. how you doing?

[Jay Dyer]

Good. What is on your mind? What is on your mind?

[Caller/Viewer]

Yeah, I got a question for you. This is more a personal question about you.

[Jay Dyer]

When you were converting to orthodoxy and

[Caller/Viewer]

leaving like all the Western paradigms and that kind of thing, what would you say for you was the hardest thing to grasp and what was like the hardest theological doctrine to be convinced of for.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, for many years, because I was so into the Augustinian, Thomistic Calvinist frame of mind. It would have been the Augustinian view of salvation with operative grace and all that kind of stuff. So the thing that cured all that was getting really heavy into Christology and understanding synergy between the two natures in Christ. So St. Cyril of Alexander and the Christological controversy. That book pretty much flushed out all of the remaining Latinizing presuppositions that I had. Mr. Anderson, Mr. Anderson. Y' all gotta up your trolling skills. What's up, man?

[Caller/Viewer]

No, I was just finished listening to Father Stephen Deong and Tucker interview there and I listened to your thing last night on it before I listened to their deal. So I don't know if you've covered it today already.

[Jay Dyer]

Listen to whose thing last night.

[Caller/Viewer]

Say what?

[Jay Dyer]

When you say thing last night, are you talking about the same thing or something different?

[Caller/Viewer]

Oh no, and your members only last night.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh my, my stream. I got you. Okay, go ahead.

[Caller/Viewer]

Yeah, yeah, I heard that first and then I listened to the.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, I see, I see.

[Caller/Viewer]

Anyway, but I made a couple notes because I thought it was interesting. First, the last.

[Jay Dyer]

You're cutting out what now? Do I know who he is? Yeah, I've known him for. I've known him for.

[Caller/Viewer]

No, no. Did you hear his.

[Jay Dyer]

His.

[Caller/Viewer]

His video on Nephilim?

[Jay Dyer]

No, I have not. A year ago. No, I didn't.

[Caller/Viewer]

Well, he kind of took the view. He kind of did not agree in the whole physical copulation view.

[Jay Dyer]

Sure.

[Caller/Viewer]

But Father Stephen DeYoung's take, I feel like it's like this kind of middle way. Yeah. In a sense that, for me, it made a lot more sense of everything.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, well, I haven't got there yet. I haven't gotten there yet, so I don't know exactly where. I know that he. I know that.

[Caller/Viewer]

Go ahead. Sorry.

[Jay Dyer]

It's okay. I know that he has. Many people have said he has a sort of middle of the road approach, and. Yeah, I'm open to that because, you know, we got a lot of spurgs. I'm not calling you a spur, but a lot of people out here are spurging out, like, as if this is some, like, you know, faith dividing matter. It's like. It's a speculation.

[Caller/Viewer]

Yeah, for sure.

[Jay Dyer]

And I agree with that.

[Caller/Viewer]

This is not, like, groundbreaking, but anyway, it kind of reminded me of the Uruk Hai. And Tolkien's. Yeah, kind of like. Oh, so maybe this is what Tolkien was kind of thinking when he did the breeding stuff.

[Jay Dyer]

No, I. I said that in my analysis of Tolkien.

[Caller/Viewer]

Okay, so I missed that part. My bad.

[Jay Dyer]

No, no, not in the stream. In my Tolkien analyses, if you watch my hobby.

[Caller/Viewer]

No, no, yeah, I know. I know which one. I live. Listen to that. I think it's great. I guess I just either forgot or.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, we were talking about Hobbit, but I did reference the fact that I did a whole fourth hour of Lord Voldemort like, two years ago. It got a whole bunch of views. And I talked about how the Urukai is a warning against genetic alteration and hybrid stuff.

[Caller/Viewer]

100. I do have to remember that. Like chimeres and whatever.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah.

[Caller/Viewer]

And I've listened to your stuff with Dean Arnold, which I think is great about Tolkien and everything, but so. But another parallel, though, was. So I actually did visit Dachau, and the tour guide there was talking about the SS and he was talking about sort of rituals they used to do, and he talked about a ritual, an SCX ritual that they would do on the graves of fallen warriors to imbibe the spirit of the child with the spirit of the Valkyrie or something like that. Anyway, just more parallel Rosemary's Baby, you know, just a lot of stuff that started to really click for me after listening to Steven Young's take on that.

[Jay Dyer]

Interesting. I appreciate that. It's hard to know, like, some of the tiny, tiny mustache men in our coterie were into the occult and took it seriously. You know, Himmler seems to have taken it seriously. And more recently, you know, people like Michael Aquino, you know, they took famous trips to castles where the SS hung out and tried to reenact a sort of round table ritual. That was something that Michael Aquino famously did. There's a lot of goobers and, like, larping spurgs. But, yeah, I think that would tie into the ideas of creating the super. The Ubermans. Right. I mean, the whole idea of the idea of some of the SS was, you know, creating breeders, creating super soldiers, that kind of stuff. It's definitely there. Truffles. What's up? You want to unmute, dude?

[Caller/Viewer]

Oh, sorry about that. But have you seen Spider Man Noir yet?

[Jay Dyer]

No, I've been too busy. We've. We've seen. I was focusing on obsession and back rooms, but I put it in my two watch list.

[Caller/Viewer]

Oh, you'll. You'll enjoy it today. I promise you that. It's great. I just wanted to bring that up because I was ready to talk to you about that. But, yeah, enjoy your stream.

[Jay Dyer]

Thank you. Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty much like anything Nick Cage. I'm a. I'm a big Nick Cage fan. So I'm looking forward to Nacho Libertarian. What's up?

[Caller/Viewer]

Hello.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. What's up?

[Caller/Viewer]

Okay, I got just two questions. So first question is, how did you feel about the third act of the back rooms? And the second question is, is obsess? Is obsession a good case study on how sin leads you to despair?

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, it's exactly what I. I mean, similar to what I had in my notes about Obsession, that it was a really good critique of relationships, dysfunctional relationships, men and women relationships today. A little bit of woke in there, but, I mean, pretty much every movie has a little bit of that, but not as bad as I expected. And I did. I like the third act of backrooms. I don't know that I would have done it any different if I was Kane, if I was a director. I thought that of course, it leaves it open for multiple installments, which is what Kane said he wanted. He thought, he thinks. He sees the back rooms as a potential for a series. So I think that makes perfect sense. And, you know, there wasn't really a whole lot of woke in back rooms, so it wasn't that bad in that regard. We're gonna get into it here. I've got quite a few notes. But of course, as you guys know, I think I have found several clues things in the film, particularly in Back rooms. I thought. I mean, Back Rooms is a little more of a metaphysical, cosmic, esoteric horror than obsession. Obsession is a lot more about guys and girls and power dynamics and, you know, red pill, incel, feminism, spit and game, all that kind of stuff was part of the narrative, was part of the story. So. But ultimately I think you could read it as. You could read it as a urban legend. You could read it as something akin to Misery. I haven't seen anybody know the parallels with Stephen King's Kathy Bates. You know, Misery. It's kind of a cross between Misery and urban legend. So we'll talk about that in a second. I'll get to the last couple calls here. Ffh. What's up, Ffa? Future farmers of America. What's up, dude? What's on your mind?

[Caller/Viewer]

Can you hear me?

[Jay Dyer]

Yes, sir.

[Caller/Viewer]

Okay, I'm not sure is this is one of the topics, like theism?

[Jay Dyer]

Sure.

[Caller/Viewer]

Okay, do you have like an argument that God exists?

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, the transcendental argument.

[Caller/Viewer]

Okay. Running back

[Jay Dyer]

any knowledge claim or the possibility of knowledge at all requires preconditions or transcendental categories. Those transcendental categories require for their grounding and for their coherence and for their synthesis, some kind of being that could ground them. God is the only type of being that could ground them. Therefore God exists because knowledge exists.

[Caller/Viewer]

Okay, what is knowledge? Like? If I'm saying I know something, what does that say?

[Jay Dyer]

I mean, there's correspondence theory of truth, there's different truth theories, there's coherence theory of truth. I would say that all of the truth, the schools of truth theory have an element of quote, truth to them. So I would say some combination of all of those truth theories would constitute justified true belief and thus true knowledge. So in other words, JTB plus gettier.

[Caller/Viewer]

Okay, something. Okay, something like a defeasible theory or defeasible account with jtb. Okay, so, well, what does it mean to say like justified true belief exists or. Dude, is that just saying that somebody might have justified true belief? Like, is that what you mean? Or the same thing?

[Jay Dyer]

I mean, it's not making an ontological statement. It's a description of what a good belief is or a rational belief is. So we have to follow the laws of critical thinking or logic. And so good beliefs are good reasons for our beliefs. Excuse me. Justified beliefs are good beliefs that have Good reasons for them.

[Caller/Viewer]

Okay. It might depend on what you mean by justification or like, good reasons there.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, that's why I said jtb, which is the classical idea of what it is to be, to have a justified.

[Caller/Viewer]

I understand that to like understand what you mean by knowledge, but I don't even think.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, the argument is that any possibility of knowledge. So it's an even stronger claim than just having a knowledge claim. It's, it's. If knowledge is possible at all, then you require certain preconditions of knowledge. Now you could theoretically say, well, I don't think knowledge is possible at all. Well, the problem is that, well, that's a knowledge claim. So it seems like you're on the horns of a dilemma if you think that there is no possibility of knowledge. So it's really not even hinging on some theory of knowledge per se, because it's a stronger statement of. For any possible assertion or knowledge claim whatsoever, there are preconditions of knowledge.

[Caller/Viewer]

Okay, I was gonna first ask what, what is it that gets us to God exists? If I said, like, I have justified true belief.

[Jay Dyer]

Because to say that you have a justified true belief about a knowledge claim or an assertion or whatever requires a whole series of things be the case that are assumed that are necessarily the case. So in other words, you need an external world, you need some concept of a knower, you need some concept of meaningful action in the world. You need some concept of meaning itself. You need things like universals in particular, so some account of the one of the many. All of these kinds of what are called transcendentals. Or you could look up something like Aristotle's categories, quantity, quality, relation, etc. All of those things are necessary for knowledge. They're things that have to be the case as preconditions. So the question then is one level lower? Well, then what grounds all the preconditions, how are they? What are they, where are they? And the existence of God gives an account for that. It gives them coherence, it gives them sustainability, it gives them immateriality, it gives them invariance. Because God structured and created the world in such a way that if God exists and if that world is the case, it makes sense why there would be those things. If God doesn't exist, then there are no preconditions, there are no categories. There's no way to make sense of those things. And not just in themselves, but how they work together. Because, for example, knowledge requires a knower, right? So you've got what Kant calls, like the transcendental self is necessary to have as the knower, to have knowledge. So in other words, it's like a series of inferences is what we're talking about. And they don't just stand in some abstraction because it's basically an argument for an entire worldview, namely the Christian worldview.

[Caller/Viewer]

Okay, I might have. I might have been under a wrong. Is this like maybe some kind of ibe? Or is this like a deductive argument to where if we say God doesn't exist, there's like a contradiction or something?

[Jay Dyer]

No, it's just a transcendental argument about the preconditions of logic, the preconditions of knowledge at all. So it's even more fundamental than that.

[Caller/Viewer]

No, I'm understanding that it's like a transcendental argument. Okay, but I'm asking what type of argument, like you can have like an inductive, abductive, deductive kinds of arguments. Like what kind of argument is this one?

[Jay Dyer]

It's a. It's a disjunctive. It's a disjunctive. X is a necessary condition of Y. Y, therefore X.

[Caller/Viewer]

A disjunctive, did you say? What do you mean destructive?

[Jay Dyer]

X is a necessary condition of Y. Y, therefore X. That's the formal structure of what I'm arguing in the most simple formula.

[Caller/Viewer]

Okay, that sounds deductive.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, whatever, dude. You want to argue about terms or do you want to make an argument?

[Caller/Viewer]

No, no, I was just making sure. Okay, so accessory precondition for Y there. For X and X. Here is what. And Y is what?

[Jay Dyer]

Well, we can do it in the case of. We can use knowledge as an example. God is a necessary. Or let's start with without God. Let's start with the preconditions because I said there's tears to this. So knowledge requires preconditions. Knowledge exists, therefore the preconditions exist. Preconditions require God. Precondition exists, therefore God exists.

[Caller/Viewer]

Okay, is this a new art? What is just, Just what is X and Y? That's all I know. I want to know. Sorry.

[Jay Dyer]

I literally just filled in the X and Y for you. Do you want me to restate it for you? Are you going to make an argument or are you just going to me about when are you going to make an argument?

[Caller/Viewer]

Me give an argument for what?

[Jay Dyer]

You obviously are disagreeing. So where is the critique? Because I just filled an X and Y for you.

[Caller/Viewer]

Okay, maybe it wasn't clear, but what is X and Y?

[Jay Dyer]

For knowledge to exist, there are preconditions of Knowledge, Right. So knowledge exists.

[Caller/Viewer]

Just define X and Y. I just did.

[Jay Dyer]

Did you not listen? X is a necessary condition of Y. Y, therefore X. Knowledge requires preconditions. Listen to what I'm saying, dude. This is so stupid. X is a necessary condition of Y. Y, therefore X is the form. I'm going to fill it in. Knowledge exists, therefore the preconditions of knowledge exist. Preconditions are the nest. Preconditions are the necessary basis for knowledge. Knowledge exists, therefore there are the preconditions. How many times can I say it?

[Caller/Viewer]

But maybe your mics here, it would look like this. Imagine. So I'd say like X is.

[Jay Dyer]

Can you just restate what I'm arguing? Can you restate what I'm saying?

[Caller/Viewer]

No, I can, but it's not answering the question.

[Jay Dyer]

You asked me to fill it in. I filled it in three times for you.

[Caller/Viewer]

Okay, just say. Say X. Is this Y? Is this. Because it's not clear to me. It's just not hard.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, do you agree that the. Before I fill it in, do you agree that X is a necessary condition of Y? Y, therefore X. You agree that that's sound, right?

[Caller/Viewer]

Yes, I. Well, it wouldn't be. It's valid. Yes.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, thank you. So it's valid. What I'm filling in is preconditions are the necessary precondition for knowledge. Knowledge exists, therefore the preconditions of knowledge exist.

[Caller/Viewer]

Okay, so X is the preconditions for knowledge, and then Y is knowledge. Okay. And you understand none of. So I mean, are you defining God then as the preconditions for knowledge?

[Jay Dyer]

I said there's two layers to this. I said that's the first layer of money. No, you're not. That's unfair to what I argue because I said three times now in this discussion that I argue from knowledge to the preconditions and the preconditions to God. So there's steps to my line of argumentation. So you can address that or not. I don't care what you want to do, but that's how I'm arguing it. Do you think there's pre. Look, are there preconditions of knowledge or not? You're just being a sophist. You're giggling, but you can't even understand the basic.

[Caller/Viewer]

Not critiquing anything yet.

[Jay Dyer]

I'm asking for the critique, so make your point.

[Caller/Viewer]

I understand. Know what you're saying before I critique it?

[Jay Dyer]

Well, I've told you like five times, and you. You can't seem to grasp it. You're pretending that what I'm saying doesn't make sense. You're pretending that what I'm saying doesn't make sense, or you just don't get it, and then you're acting, you're acting like you're sophisticated. It's not interesting at all, the psychology. What are you talking about, psychology?

[Caller/Viewer]

You're saying that I'm pretending to think what you're saying is.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, because I've dealt with a thousand million atheists, and you do the same every time. It's always what you guys do. So do you have an actual argument against what I'm saying? Okay, so you're just, you're condescending, full of. When are you gonna make an argument? We're waiting for. You're a sophist. I can tell within, like, one minute who's a sophist because of thousands of debates. That's how I know.

[Caller/Viewer]

Okay, sure, if it helps you.

[Jay Dyer]

I'm a theist, so I don't believe you are. I think you're just saying whatever.

[Caller/Viewer]

Anyway.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, so are you gonna make an argument against Tag or not?

[Caller/Viewer]

Yes, I'm gonna respond.

[Jay Dyer]

What is the argument against Tag? Your condescending giggle gives away your sophistry.

[Caller/Viewer]

It's just funny.

[Jay Dyer]

It's just funny. Bro, we're waiting.

[Caller/Viewer]

All right, so you said, X is the necessary precondition for Y there for X. Now. X is the necessary preconditions for knowledge. Y is knowledge now. So I asked for the argument.

[Jay Dyer]

Knowledge exists, therefore the preconditions exist. This is just wasting my time. The next line of argument for knowledge. Can you just restate what my argument is? Well, this is a waste of time.

[Caller/Viewer]

Goodbye.

[Jay Dyer]

Goodbye, waste of time. Horn. What's up? This is what you get with. I mean, I can tell within a minute of an atheist talking that it's not a good faith endeavor. It's just giggling, condescension. It's just. What's up, man?

[Caller/Viewer]

Hello.

[Jay Dyer]

What's up?

[Caller/Viewer]

Oh, oh, it's. Oh, I'm on.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, yeah, you're on.

[Caller/Viewer]

Hey, I, I. So my question is in regards to

[Jay Dyer]

how.

[Caller/Viewer]

What, like, what the standard.

[Jay Dyer]

What's the argument? Guys, can you spit out what you're saying? Like, I'm losing my patience with you guys. Yeah, make your argument, dude.

[Caller/Viewer]

So this is basically what I'm asking. I'm asking, what would be the standard manuscript to use when Christians want to talk about what the quote unquote original, like, Old Testament says? Because I see a lot of apologists, they use, like, when they refer back to, you know, like, let's go back to the original. They go to, like.

[Jay Dyer]

The Orthodox Church uses the Septuagint.

[Caller/Viewer]

The Septuagint, okay, well, because the apostles use it. Apologies. They use Hebrew. That's usually Masoretic.

[Jay Dyer]

What does that have to do. You're asking me, like, what the Orthodox position is? I'm Orthodox. I'm gonna get, I don't care what Protestant apologists do.

[Caller/Viewer]

Okay, so it would be the Septuagint.

[Jay Dyer]

Because the apostles tend to use a septuagint.

[Caller/Viewer]

Okay, that's, that's pretty much. So the, the, like, the apostolic Churches don't use the Masoretic at all.

[Jay Dyer]

No, sometimes it's used, it's cited. Whatever the proto Masoretic is, is cited in the book of Matthew. So it's not, it's not never used. In fact, sometimes it's useful to cite it. It in an apologetic way to point out to unbelieving Jews, for example, that even your Masoretic texts still include references to the Messiah. It's just not the normative text of the Orthodox Church.

[Caller/Viewer]

I see. Okay. I understand that.

[Jay Dyer]

That's why Matthew has presumably some of those types of references because he knows his audience is probably not going to care what the Septuagint says because Matthew's writing to a Jewish audience.

[Caller/Viewer]

I understand. Okay. That makes sense, I guess. Yeah, that makes sense. And another question. Can I, can I ask another question?

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, if you just ask it. Please.

[Caller/Viewer]

Go, go, go, go. To understand the transcendental argument that you usually do, does someone need to have a deep understanding of epistemology to understand it? Or is it something that I'm, I have to, I could just understand very quickly because I've tried, I've heard it before. I don't really have a background in philosophy, but when I hear it, I, I, I don't see how it leads to God, to be honest. I, it's, you know, it's just me, maybe.

[Jay Dyer]

Did you hear the argument with the previous. So again, the argument with the previous guy is another example of this. Knowledge requires preconditions of knowledge. The preconditions also require some way to be grounded or made sense of. I'm arguing that only God could do that. It's that simple. Do you have to have a PhD in epistemology? Not necessarily, but I mean, the more you know about it could help you out.

[Caller/Viewer]

So what would, what would these preconditions be?

[Jay Dyer]

Everything that I just explained to the previous caller, but thank you for that. This is why the I mean, I'm not trying to be mean to this guy, but, like, this is why it's really frustrating and annoying to do these types of atheist debates is because most of the atheists that call into debate nowadays are not good faith. I'm not saying that guy was bad faith. The first guy was not good faith. Right. And then you guys in the chat are bitching like, being frustrated and fed up with the same stupid condescension. Is not a man being emotional? By the way, men are not supposed to get rid of all emotion. I don't know where you. You got that. That's like. It's not even reality. You can't get rid of all of your emotions. So you say dumb like that in the chat, I'm just gonna immediately ban you. It's just notorious. What's up? The other thing, too, is people don't know how to communicate. I'm not trying to be mean to people, but, like, you got to learn to, as a man, state your argument. Don't be passive aggressive with condescending, effeminate giggles. State your argument. Be clear, be concise. Don't yap for 20 minutes to make up. Just make the point.

[Caller/Viewer]

Point.

[Jay Dyer]

What's up?

[Caller/Viewer]

What's up, dude? We'll comment, and then I have a question about Hollywood, but I think these guys just don't understand patterns, and that's kind of why they don't understand tag. I think that's a fundamental disability now today, that why they can't understand tag.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, I mean, it. Tag, unfortunately, does require a degree of knowledge, particularly philosophical understanding. And the problem is that every debate and discussion ends up being a philosophy lecture. And I'm not going to give a philosophy lecture every time somebody asks a tag question. It's just. It sucks all the air out of the room. All the people leave the chat. It gets boring and technical. And again, if you want to go that route, go to FDA's channel and watch all his lectures and. And his tag talks.

[Caller/Viewer]

Or.

[Jay Dyer]

Or just address and go tell everybody.

[Caller/Viewer]

Buy your philosophy course. You want a tag? Go find the philosophy course.

[Jay Dyer]

Be a grifter. You think I'm a grifter for selling a tag course?

[Caller/Viewer]

No, no, no. I was just joking.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, you mean like Ruslan could create a tag course, right? He would think it would be playing. Playing touch football or something. Andy, what's up? Hey, yo, we about to do a tag course, you guys. Yo, my church rap church gonna do a tag course. What's up, man?

[Caller/Viewer]

Hey, Jay. Three questions. Number one, would you Be willing to go on the unsubscribe podcast. They're a great group of guys, and I don't know.

[Jay Dyer]

I mean, I'm trying to be a. I don't know who that is or what it is.

[Caller/Viewer]

They're a comedy podcast down here in Texas. I'd really appreciate if you reach out to them on Twitter or Instagram. Second question. I bought. I bought Tragedy and Hope. How would you recommend going about reading it? Should I read it first and then go through your lecture course or go through it together? What.

[Jay Dyer]

I mean, you know, that was really up to you. It's a really long, technical book, so it might be. Unless you're really. If. Unless you've built up your reading stamina, it's going to be a challenge. So it really depends on you. It is worth doing because there's so many gems and historical nuggets and tidbits that you won't find anywhere else. But it really depends on, you know, what you want to do. So, you know, if you. If you get 100 pages in and you find it to be super arduous and you don't have the time for it, you know, you might want to do the lectures. It's really up to, you know, where you're. You're at with your. Your reading stamina. Everybody's saying these dudes are based. I'm not familiar with them, but yeah, of course, I would go on a large bass podcast, everybody. You guys always tell me to reach out to the people like that. Like, the best way to get me on the podcast is to just say it in the comments. Like, if you guys want me on somebody's podcast, you got to get the attention of either the hosts or the producer people. And that's the real challenge with getting on podcasts, is because so much of this just depends on the whims of some chick who's the scheduler for everyone's podcast. And so they're like, a lot of times they're gatekeepers, which is annoying. What's up, Jay R.

[Caller/Viewer]

Yes, sir. How you doing?

[Jay Dyer]

Hey, what's on your mind today?

[Caller/Viewer]

Well, gentleman who just asked the question about Tragedy and Hope, actually, you should go through. You should be able to at least go through a lot of Jay's audios or videos on either, you know, the way the financial system works or just the way the military industrial complex operates. And as long as you have an understanding of that prior to reading Tragedy and Hope, it'll probably be good for you to comprehend it.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. And John has done Both. So he's, he can definitely speak to this. I appreciate that input from somebody other than me, you know, who delivered the, the talks or whatever, 10 years ago.

[Caller/Viewer]

Yeah, we, we. We read it around the same time back in the day. So it was, it was one of those things where it is a laborious task to go through it, but it also. It's a good reference book too. Yeah, it's one of those books where you could like open it up to any page and then get lost for like 15 minutes on the subject, so.

[Jay Dyer]

Exactly. You could also, if you guys want, you know, I do have a talk on Anglo American Establishment, which is Quigley's briefer, later text, which in some ways is more concise and in some ways reveals more about the power structure itself. Whereas Tragic Hope is like an entire CFR history of the 20th century up until the 1960s and kind of a history of all modern Western civilization. So there's also that possibility too. You can do Anglo American Establishment. What was. I was getting lost in some book last night. What was it? Just escape my mind. So I bought all these espionage history books and I did do, as I mentioned to you guys, we did do a few more chapters of Old Boys, so we're nearing about the last third of the book. It's this. That one's a pretty rough read. I mean, it's rough in the sense of it being pretty, pretty dry. The chapter I'm on right now, man, is so boring. But I'm almost done with didn't. It did contain a good nugget about Radio Liberty, which of course was obviously a, you know, massive CIA operation. But what's interesting is that a lot of people didn't know in the 80s and prior to that that Radio Liberty was actually a confirmed, you know, massive CIA Cold War operation. But this book kind of early on confirmed it because this was written 1992, right after a lot of the information had been presumably made public. So it does get into some good stuff, too. And he was even talking about the Congress for Cultural Freedom in this chapter. Problem is that the only interesting part was at the very end of this chapter. It was just so long and boring. And I guess that's the thing with espionage history books and geopolitical stuff is like, if you really want to know what's going on in the spy world, you got to get into these gigantic 500, 700 page tomes. And they're not the most exciting, right? They're not really like James Bond. Every now and then there's a story that's kind of exciting like that. But anyway, I did find it interesting that the new James Bond game, which I was going to stream and play, but I couldn't get the chat to show up on the screen. The plot is very similar to the plot of Mission Impossible in its finale. Right. The last one with Tom Coombe that had the idea of the AI tech that was a, a cruciform key that could kind of give you an almost godlike predictive surveillance power. And you know, if you saw the last two Mission Impossibles, that was the theme of it. Well, I think they just kind of copied that for the, the new Bond game First Light because it's the same thing, right? They have this AI called Theta, I think is what it's called Theta and it has the ability to globally surveil and give a readout of what. Okay, here's what Putin and his coterie are up to and here's the likely courses that they would take in action. Xyz. Right, that's, that's sort of what perhaps they want to do with the AI. And I did go on RT International yesterday that I about a 30 minute interview on all of this because of Pope Leo's encyclical, which I suppose is as far as I can recall, the first encyclical to deal with AI. And I think most of what Leo had in that encyclical we would all agree with. I mean, I don't like Leo at all obviously. But they asked me what I thought about the encyclical and I said from my reading of it, I pretty much obviously agree that we don't want tech destroying human lives and becoming anti natalist and anti human and robbing people of freedom and privacy and all these things that we do think are good. And then they had another dude on who was a futurist who is a little more pro, I was a little more critical. I mean obviously I'm not a Luddite, I'm not anti tech. But anyway, you guys get the idea. So that's relevant because last time when we were on and John called in, we were, we were discussing the, the probabilities of why they want the data centers and what AI might be engineered to do. And then of course in the RT interview they brought up Peter Thiel and Palantir and we talked about total information awareness going all the way back to the post Big nine event. All of that came up in the interview. It'll be out Monday. I think it was pretty good. Also I got permission too from my buddy Simon to do. We can stream and discuss all the episodes. The three episodes with me on Kiriaku. I wasn't sure I could do that, but we'll try that. Not today, but maybe in the next. Next live stream. Because we. We had such a great discussion that they chopped up into three episodes for his. His show. I think his show's called Deep State, I think. But anyway, I'm just rambling at this point. Oh, I was getting into the book Spooks, right? The Jim Hoogan book Spooks. And somebody asked me about that book the other day and I forgot. I was thinking that book mentions Mark David Chapman and World Vision and evangelical CIA stuff. I was mixing that up with. Because Sinister Forces trilogy has a whole. One of the whole volumes is about that. And I was mixing that up with a different text. It's Sinister Forces that goes into detail about World Vision and potential connections with Mark David Chapman because he was down there when he was an evangelical for a little while working with them. And there were connections to funding Contras and all that kind of stuff through evangelical operations. So Spooks, however, because Spooks is referenced in Sinister Forces many times while I bought it, Spooks is about private intelligence. And I forgot that one of the main insights in Spooks is about Robert Mayhew and his associations with Howard Hughes and the Mormon mafia. And so that's a key point, tying the CIA into Mormonism and the recruiting of many, many Mormon missionaries and who knows what else. But also there being, of course, this Mormon mafia from within who appears to have shadowed Howard Hughes quite a bit throughout his life. And if you watch, you know, the Leo movie, the Martin Scorsese, Leonardo DiCaprio movie Aviator, I think they kind of hint at this. I mean, they don't say it's CIA, but he's kind of always got these like Mormon bodyguards or whatever around him. Yeah, I love this idea that, yeah, if you go on rt, your kgb, which is funny because RT is like cnn. Like it's. They interview everybody across the world. So literally everybody in the world from every country. I mean, it's broadcast to like 1 billion people in the world. Doesn't mean. Doesn't mean 1 billion people watch the show. It means that RT International reaches a very broad audience. And some dude was like, are you even aware that this is Russian state television? Like, dude, you are a fucking detective, man. You need to get hired right now. If you figured out the RT International was Russian state television, pretty much everyone I know has been on rt. So everyone in the media field, from Ben Swan to Burmas to Lord Voldemort to Colonel Anthony Schaefer to Kiriaku, name it. Anybody? Larry King. Larry King had a freaking show on. Do you think Larry King is kgb? I mean, it's just retarded anyway, so we don't realize this is how media works. By the way, American media, that's basically state media too. Have you not figured out that if you go on the BBC, that's British intelligence media, if you go on America's quote, private, it's no different. It's the same. They're basically all the same. So any massive international media operation is essentially some form of state media or public private partnership type of media. Really, the only people that are, quote, independent or at least basically independent, are people doing what we do. I maintain the ability to do whatever I want. I've never been offered a job or a position. It might have been at some points tempting, but at the same time, actually I like being able to do what I want. If I took some job with some media outlet, I probably wouldn't be able to just go set up an interview with Kat Von D when I want. I wouldn't be able to just go off to, you know, do Jesse Lee Peterson in la. So I really, really value the freedom that I have to do my own media and everybody. It might not be the fastest route to 500, 000 or to a million subscribers. I know that a lot of people previously in media, you know, for example, you have somebody like Lauren Southern, she worked with Rebel media, built up an audience and then she did her own thing. I'm just talking about this, the pattern of what different people have done in media. Other people like myself, I'm not attached to any entity. I mean, yes, I host the fourth hour, but I don't work under Alex. I just literally hop on there and I can come and go as I listen. And I actually like that arrangement a lot better anyway. So that's how media works. But people who don't work in this kind of stuff and haven't done, like, they don't get it, that they form all these ideas and they have all these assumptions in their head that, oh, the only way that you could actually do that is if you are working with Dugan and you work with the kgb. You know, it's just, dude, if you build up a big enough audience and you interview enough people, you will get asked on these shows. So. And it's just schizo to think that everybody in Media is an operative. Not everybody's an operative. Now, a lot of people in media are fakes. A lot of people are grifters. But not everybody's a Fed. Not everybody's an operative. In my experience, immediate most people have been pretty cool. Actually. There's only a handful of, you know, absolute pieces of garbage. Not that many of them that I've, you know, worked with or dealt with. So. Yeah, I mean, if you. If you work with a big outlet, you usually have to sign some kind of contract, Right. And then you're. You're going to be bound by NDAs, and you're going to be like, I mean, look at all the people that worked at Daily Wire, right? They go to Daily Wire, they have all these NDAs and this legal crap and all this nonsense and have to deal with all that. Yeah. You might be able to build up a giant audience quicker, like Candace did. Although nowadays it won't matter because all that's just died out. I mean, Daily Wire was Israeli Wire, and everybody figured that out finally, even though we knew that all along. But you get what I'm saying, I hope. All right, let's move on, because that's boring. Jimmy, what's up? What's up?

[Caller/Viewer]

Hey, Jay. How are you?

[Jay Dyer]

I'm great.

[Caller/Viewer]

Good. Hope you're doing well. Today's Pentecost, right?

[Jay Dyer]

Blessed feast, indeed.

[Caller/Viewer]

Have. Have you seen Metropolitan Saba and the Antiochian Diocese just release an interview with the Roots of Orthodoxy guy?

[Jay Dyer]

Yes. Unfortunately, I would assume that he's not aware of this person. And, you know, Roots, over and over and over exposed himself as a grifter. And bishops. I don't think bishops are not involved in the online space. They don't really keep up with it, so they're not aware of what's going on. But, yeah, I'm not trying to be rude to you. It's just. I don't really want to get into that goofball today. Pierzik, what's up? I mean, the guy basically just said, okay, yeah, I'm not. I'm not Orthodox. I'm a Roman Catholic. Well, he was always just acting like he was interested in orthodoxy to build his channels. And, I mean, the guy's an obvious grifter. It's just weird to me that. That people still can't figure out, look, grifting is not lying or being deceptive. Grifting is when you are pretending to have a position to scam people for money. It's so simple. So I don't know what people are just Saying grifter all the time. No, it's a very specific thing. Rouselan's a grifter. Roots of Orthodoxy is a grifter. And they display continuous patterns that make it very clear that they are. So it's not just making money online, it's not having a business. It's things that betray the sincerity and what your priorities are. That's what makes you a grifter. Pirzik. What's up?

[Caller/Viewer]

Hey, what's up?

[Jay Dyer]

John and Jay? It's open, right?

[Caller/Viewer]

Sure. Okay, cool. So, yeah, I've been trying to call in the last week or so, but I've just kind of gone the wrong times.

[Jay Dyer]

First thing I wanted to just say

[Caller/Viewer]

was about kind of everything that's been going on with ecumenism. And I know you, you've already said this before, but I just, it boggles

[Jay Dyer]

my mind regarding, like, like if you

[Caller/Viewer]

just read, for example, any biography on John D. Rockefeller, you can see that he's a major player in funding what,

[Jay Dyer]

the modern ecumenism movement. Yes. There's a whole chapter in there in the biography on it.

[Caller/Viewer]

What'd you say?

[Jay Dyer]

Yes, there's a whole chapter in the authorized biography on that. Yeah, yeah.

[Caller/Viewer]

And there's also a book by Ron Chernoff called Titan, and it goes pretty deep into that as well.

[Jay Dyer]

Let me write that down.

[Caller/Viewer]

I mean, it's just right there in the open. So I mean, it's pretty. It's just boggles my mind why people don't really see it.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, people don't read books, dude. I mean, this is what I've learned after all these years of doing all this spending basically 10 years of my life just non stop reading. So that I realized then, then I realized I'm an outsider because people don't read, so they have no idea. They just think you're just making up or word salad when you spend a lot of years reading. So that's the, the downside of that when you, when you do that. But at the same time it allowed me to be able to do what we're doing. But go ahead. Ron Chernoff, Titan.

[Caller/Viewer]

Yeah, no, it's just, it's just was kind of crazy. So that was one. That was one side of it. And I mean, yeah, you can see it, how it's playing out now on YouTube and all these guys. But the other one was, it's pretty unrelated.

[Jay Dyer]

I like how Ruslan's just like, Ruson's like, yeah, I don't really care about all this theology.

[Caller/Viewer]

Yeah. So, yeah, I know it's ridiculous.

[Jay Dyer]

And you can see too, actually in

[Caller/Viewer]

terms of, I mean, how it intermingles too, with education and like, you know, how he's funding the University of Chicago, all that other stuff.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, the Rockefellers.

[Caller/Viewer]

Yeah, with that one pastor that became the president, the first president. It's, I mean, it's very deep. But, you know, of all this, the other one was about more.

[Jay Dyer]

Are you talking about. You're talking about Fosdick, who was like a super lib.

[Caller/Viewer]

Yes, yeah, Fosdick. And then there was a. There was another guy that was kind of a charismatic pastor that became pretty, pretty influential in like the University of Chicago being developed. And he was a big, you know, voice into Rockefeller's ear. But. Yeah, and so the other one is, is kind of, kind of all across the board. It's kind of random. But it's regarding the UFO stuff as well as, you know, I guess espionage or like secret operations in that sense.

[Jay Dyer]

I don't know the last time you

[Caller/Viewer]

spoke about Operation Paperclip, but it would be kind of cool to get a new updated video with these, you know, releases and everything in regards to the direct correlation between Operation Paperclip and us taking scientists from the Third Reich as well as the Soviet Union doing it. And then, you know, a lot of those technologies came. Yeah, like, you know, theories came from those guys.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah.

[Caller/Viewer]

So it'd be kind of cool to see a new updated video on that.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, that's exactly right. I think you're right. Like that that's the role of Werner von Braun is, you know, rocket science. He himself made these bizarre statements about, you know, assuming that the statements are authentic, warning about kind of a fake and gay alien psyop that would be used. You have at the time of the 1940s, reports of the Foo Fighters and seeing Foo Fighters and this kind of stuff, which some theorize was perhaps tiny mustache, man saucer type technology, whatever that was. I do think that's very possible. And, you know, we do know that the early founders of NASA were people recruited out of Paperclip. I also am very skeptical of NASA as an actual entity created for the purpose of going to the moon. I actually think NASA's purpose was probably kind of akin to what we were saying with John the other day about the data centers. Probably more so to do with like surveillance. And, you know, we've covered some of this in the past because one of the things that the Cold War did was really, I mean, in World War II as well, prior to that. But the World War World War II bird, the Cold War. And what a lot of people don't think about coming out of the Cold War was the NSA cryptographic communications and surveillance. And obviously surveillance is right there in the world of espionage. Espionage obviously, in many cases involves surveillance, spycraft, spying. So if you look at an entity like seti, which had massive amounts of money put into it a long time ago, that's a board game. That's not what I want. And this is just my theory, right. The search for extraterrestrial intelligence, seti. And the idea is, oh, yeah, we're going to have these, you know, giant satellite dishes set up. We're going to build like an entire Arecibo center in the middle of Peru or wherever that is. This guy didn't have any good pictures in this video. Looking for some good picture. I don't see some fat lesbian from NASA. No, I don't want to hear that.

[Caller/Viewer]

You know what else about that time period too, Jay? Yeah. Is it is a cultural and psychological acclimation period to the idea of surveillance.

[Jay Dyer]

Exactly.

[Caller/Viewer]

So it. All of the things that we've adopted over long periods of time began in that generation prior to or post World War II, where it was the gradual breaking down of people being private.

[Jay Dyer]

You know, my theory is that Seti and I think Dave McGowan has similar types of theories, and we had to be conditioned through James Bond and all the different gadgetry and all that stuff to accept spy stuff in everyday life. Right. Your cell phone is something out of the spy world, out of the Cold War, in your daily life. Now, the Internet itself was originally a Cold War cryptographic communication system. And if you look at number stations, we've covered this many, many times, which still exist. But number stations are another element of this that help contribute to the eventual emergence of the Internet, which is, again, all. It's all cryptography. And it's not all bad. I mean, bitcoin comes out of cryptography. So I don't think that everything about this world is bad. It's just. It is what it is, just to use the Boomer catchphrase.

[Caller/Viewer]

Well, even. Even newspapers at the time were elements of cybernetics. So it's not like you're saying, like, so those type of things don't necessarily have to be bad, but it was like they would. They would purposely plant news stories into newspapers and see how fast the. Like, they put it in a story in a particular area, and they track how long it would take to get to another part of the country.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. And if you Remember in X Files, Mulder goes to Arecibo at one point, which is the giant satellite dish inside of a valley. And it's. Arecibo is. I always forget which country it is. Peru. Peru.

[Caller/Viewer]

It's the one in the movie Contact.

[Jay Dyer]

It's also in the Pierce Brosnan and Sean Bean scene. Bean episode of Bond, because they have that fight at the top of the thing.

[Caller/Viewer]

But is that golden eye?

[Jay Dyer]

It's either golden, either one after it. But you'll see here. Yeah, it could be a telescope, right? I mean, I'm not saying it's not a telescope, but these types of things, I suspect, could also be just simply surveillance devices. Right. And that would be very useful in the Cold War to have this. I mean, imagine what potential communication something like this could pick up. Right? So anyway, I think a lot of things that. That we think are aliens or space travel, they're actually just. That's a cover. And they might do some of that to have it give it legitimate cover in the sense of like actually sending rockets or actually, you know, having telescopes. But I mean, a lot of this could also be like advanced ELF VLF weaponry, like GoldenEye. Or it could be surveillance. So that to me makes a lot more sense than. Oh, no, they really want to send a recording of Bach and Carl Sagan talking about aliens and E. T. Into space. No, that's a bunch of. All right, let's get to. I'll take a couple more calls. Then if we don't get to the movie, we'll never get to the movie, and then we'll never get back to calls. So I do want to talk about Obsession and Back Rooms. I enjoyed both of these films. I thought they were really well done. I have don't have many criticisms. I really like backgrounds. I thought they did do great with it. If you disagree, by the way, people, there's some people who are hating on it. I want to hear why you. You. What your arguments are. Because some people just. Movie was. And no matter how good your movie is, there's gonna be people. So your movie was. Okay, well, tell me why, like, what's the actual reason why it was bad? Raul, what's up? Raul Duke, we got John Depp. What's up?

[Caller/Viewer]

I just wanted to ask real quick.

[Jay Dyer]

I had. I was wanting to know, do you

[Caller/Viewer]

have a video that go that provides

[Jay Dyer]

a rebuttal to the argument that people that atheists will give about, you know,

[Caller/Viewer]

I don't need religion to be a good person. I was just wondering if you had

[Jay Dyer]

a video that you could point me to for that. Well, I mean there's a ton of critiques that we've done from a philosophical vantage point. Off the top of my head. I don't know what specific video. Probably a lot of the videos that we did with FDA, you know, four or five years ago there was probably 20 of those where you know, what's the good? I mean you can't just say, oh well, I don't need God, I follow the good. Okay, well give me an account of the good. What is the good? Where's the good? How do we know what the good is? I mean that's the line of reasoning that I would do. Timo, what's up? I mean pretty much every movie that you see nowadays, you know, you're gonna have like casting of, you know, people like myself, bipoc individuals and that doesn't. I could still watch a movie even though it kind of gets old that every hero is like, you know, a sas queen or whatever. But there wasn't a whole lot of that in either of these movies. There was a little bit of feminism and obsession, but I think you can still read it in a salvageable way. Timo, what's up?

[Caller/Viewer]

Hey Jay, I got a little movie question for you.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay.

[Caller/Viewer]

I saw a clip from an old stream of yours where a caller asked your opinion on the Passion of the Christ movie and you briefly said that it was heretical and Aryan rushed and I was wondering if you could.

[Jay Dyer]

No, no, no, no, I didn't say that. No, no, that's not what I said.

[Caller/Viewer]

Also, how do you feel about the, the new official reveal of Jesus Christ and Mel Gibson's follow up two part movie who is played by a six foot three atheist, liberal Nordic actor?

[Jay Dyer]

I didn't know who was playing the person. I'm not aware of that. That's new to me. But I did not say that I thought Mel Gibson's Passion of Christ was Aryan. What I said was that some portrayals like Last Temptation of Christ are Nestorian or Aryan. I have heard that the Chosen is produced by Mormons. So I just assume that is probably going to be heterodox. But I don't recall ever saying that Mel Gibson's Passion was Aryan. My only critique of Mel Gibson's Passion would be that it's based on in part, some of the visions of that goofy histrionic Roman Catholic woman. I always forget her name. Catherine. She's. I don't even think she's a blessed or something. I always forget the name. But I mean that's just a bunch of like Roman Catholic stuff that nobody in the orthodox would, would care about. She also has weird ideas of like in her visions she says she saw Muslims and atheists and heretics in heaven. That's like weird. She said all kinds of weird stuff. I don't know why we would, would go to her for anything. But this is the thing with, you know, unfortunately Roman Catholicism ends up being very based or very much based on charismatic type stuff and Catherine Emer. Is that her name? I think it just came back to me because I don't see it on here. I think, yeah, it's based on the mystical visions. Yes. The Dolorous Passion by Anne Catherine Emmerich, who was a Roman Catholic mystic, stigmata person. This book was a major source for Mel Gibson's the Passion. That would be my main criticism, which, I mean, off the top of my head I don't recall any Aryan ideas. But I think also in the Roman Catholic perspective they really stress the, the suffering and the, shall we say, almost T o r t u r e element of the Passion. And that's just kind of foreign to the orthodox perspective. I think medieval Latin Catholicism became very obsessed with, you know, flagellation and extreme forms of penance. And it. To me, that's not the spirit of Orthodoxy, especially not if we're going on some histrionic woman mystic who's not even, she's not even a saint. It's weird. She's, she's a, I don't even know. She's a blessed. Let's see. And Catherine Emmerich was a Catholic Augustinian. She had visions of Mary, religious ecstasies. Okay. She's beatified, which in Roman Catholicism is like the level before. So John Paul II beatified her in 2004. But I mean it's just a bunch of pre list for, for orthodox people. So that would be my main criticism of, of the Passion of Christ. You know, Mel Gibson did go to Mount Athos recently and spent a significant amount of time there. So my hope is that the Passion will or the Resurrection will have some degree of orthodox influence.

[Caller/Viewer]

Maybe. I don't know.

[Jay Dyer]

I don't think who plays the. I mean, I guess you could make an argument that whoever plays the, the, the role of Christ should be a believer. But I mean, I'm sure most of the cast of the Passion wasn't a believer. So it's like, I mean, do I need, do we need to cast a Satanist to play Satan? That's a interesting line of argumentation. Maybe Paul Betty is a Satanist and that's why he played Satan. So it's set to be released in 2027. Well, at least the guy kind of looks like Christ looks in icons. So the, the appearance is. I mean, he looks like what you would think, I think from icon. Anyway. Okay, last question before we go to the movie analysis. And then we try to get through that and then get to back to open calls and debates. Raise your hand if you have a question that you. Where you disagree with. So I'll go. I'll give priority to people who disagree. Okay. Abstract. What's up? Says he disagrees.

[Caller/Viewer]

Hello.

[Jay Dyer]

Hey.

[Caller/Viewer]

Hey. So you said raise your hand if we do disagree, and then we didn't like the movie as much.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, you could. Yeah, whatever. You disagree with anything.

[Caller/Viewer]

Okay. Yeah, basically I did like the movie at the beginning.

[Jay Dyer]

Hold on. Which movie? Dude?

[Caller/Viewer]

Oh, sorry. The back rooms.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, go ahead.

[Caller/Viewer]

I think the end. It got a little bit silly and I think some of that was by design. Like they kind of wanted to have

[Jay Dyer]

a little bit of.

[Caller/Viewer]

Of humor with a creature. But I don't know, I. I just feel like it could have, like it's. The creatures seem very dependent on the people.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, there's a reason for that. Yeah, there's. There's a reason for that. There's a reason for that. And I'm going to talk about that. In my analysis. A lot of people thought that this was silly. No, it's the. The black dude, Clark, that's his worst version of himself. And so as we'll talk about in back rooms, your own trauma and background and history affects how the back room appears to you. That's why if you noticed in the story, each time a different character would enter the back rooms, there were elements of their past or their life that they would encounter. So it's almost like. And I don't want to get too gay with quantum, but like, it's almost kind of like a, you know, the seer affects what is seen type of thing. And the reason for that, I'll argue, is that we're actually going into this shackosphere. So I believe that the backrooms is, if you want to talk about it, kabbalistically, it's the einsof. It's the realm of pure potentiality, where potentialities, half realities are made real, similar to the dream state, similar to when a person regresses into their subconscious. We'll notice that a couple characters appear to have dissociation. So I think that that's exactly what's going on and actually I think whether Kane put the clues in there or other people, if you notice the Never Ending Story references, I think that clinches my case. There's a specific point when the scientist who's studying the phenomena is watching TV and he's watching a movie with his kids. And it's specifically the scene when Bastion screams out moon child when he's looking out the window. That's a reference to Aleister Crowley's moon child. And I'm not. That's not theory. Michael Enda that wrote the Never Ending Story was a crolian. So if you understand Crowean philosophy and theology, well, so called theology, a lot of it's borrowed from Tibetan Buddhism, a lot of it's borrowed from Kabbalah. And both Tibetan Buddhism and the Kabbalah have these ideas of other worlds where potentialities or tulpas or egregores can become real. That's exactly what is going on in the back rooms. Perfectly parallel with David Lynch's idea of, of the Other Place or the, the, the Black Lodge. Right. The, the waiting room. Is this very similar to what we see in the back rooms. And if you noticed, if you watch the back rooms and paid attention, there were all kinds of Lynchian scenes and references. I would say at least five or ten. Right. That were very, very Lynchian on purpose. It has to be. But remember, David lynch consciously drew from Tibetan Buddhism and was a supporter of Free Tibet. As we pointed out, if you saw the previous live stream that I put or that Jamie and I did, we talked about Free Tibet, the CIA Tibet program, We went pretty in depth into that. More documents were declassified recently. RT covered that. We covered all of those posts. I'm not going to repeat all of that. But this whole idea of other worlds, other dimensions does play into this. And that's what we're going to get into after we do obsession. So there's less to analyze an obsession. So let's do this one first because everybody's talking about this one perhaps even more than they're talking about the back rooms. Because back rooms is like a metaphysical cosmic horror. And obsession is a guy girl horror. Right. And it follows the idea of. It touches on incel culture, red pill feminism. All of these things kind of come up. And although there's a little bit of feminism in it, it's, it does a decent job, at least for what we would expect from a movie like this, of not getting too preachy or too feminist. So basically, if you don't know, and I will talk about the Ending and all that. You have this guy who's named Bear. And Bear is, as Vox Day would say, he's pretty much a Gamma. He's like the ultimate sort of gamma. He's not a beta, right? Because there are instances where we clearly see that girls are interested in him, right? So he's not a total insult. He's just a Gen Z kind of listless dude who works at a guitar shop and is into rock and he plays guitar, right? So he's not a total, you know, beta incel. But he does have a very skewed idea about how to deal with and interact with women. Since he's a musician, he's probably more on the, you know, sort of emotional side of things. And he works at the guitar shop with these, these two girls, one of whom he really likes, named Nikki, that he has a crush on. And there's this other chick, this Asian girl who likes him who he just kind of sees as a friend. So there's a sort of a love triangle ish thing going on. But it's unclear at first whether Nikki does like Bear or whether she does kind of does. I think she's supposed to be conflicted. There is the potentiality that Nick could. The bear could get with Nikki if he played it right. The problem is that, and you can tell it very early on, his sappy, gamma almost beta approach to Nikki disgusts her. And she leaves several clues as they interact that she finds it disgusting, but she also kind of flirts with him and kind of gives a couple open doors to where if he asked her out, she might kind of go for it. It. And we know that they've known each other for a long time. They knew each other since they were young. They have a, A, a brother, sister type of relationship. So technically, he's in the friend zone. He d. Drastically wants to get out of the friend zone. He wants to get with Nikki and he's kind of obsessed with her, right? And the problem is that everyone can tell he's obsessed with her. So at the beginning of the film, he's sitting alone talking with his buddy, and he's like, I. I want to tell Nikki I like her. I've got.

[Caller/Viewer]

Got.

[Jay Dyer]

I've written out this whole spiel. It's so cringy. It's like, oh, my God, dude, don't say that. He wants to say, my true feelings are you're everything to me. It's just the worst idea for a person that you've never been on a date with, right? It's it's the number one beta male move that's a failure. But again, Bear's not a beta. He's a Gamma. But when it comes to Nikki, he immediately goes into beta mode. He's full on sent beta when it comes to Nikki. And Nikki is attractive. She's, you know, obviously the hottest girl in his sphere of operations. So it makes sense that he would be into Nikki. He's gonna ask her out. He's, he's planning this. But it's all off to a wrong start. And I think if I remember, his buddy is like, yeah, maybe you don't want to go come on so strong with this sort of, of simpi beta approach. Dude, you don't want to just tell this girl, oh, you're everything to me. Like you haven't established value with her. She needs to like you, not you simp for her. Right. Of course, Bear doesn't really listen to her, to his buddy's advice. He decides he's gonna, he's gonna eventually do it. And at the same time there, this, this is him at the very beginning when he's just sitting alone, nobody's next to him. He does express too, his own loneliness. So the film is trying to play into kind of male Gen Z loneliness, the loneliness epidemic. People are not dating and having kids. The film is commenting and, and referring to all of that. But the problem again is that he's got the normie ideas and the normie programming of guy girl relationships. And his buddy, who again is a little more of a, I guess we could say a bad boy. And we'll find out later on that he's, he's the not nice guy bad boy. Nick decides, no, I'm gonna go full nice guy. And what's great about the movie is that as the story progresses, we find out Nick's not really a nice guy. And, and like Vox Day says about the Gamma male, a lot of times the Gamma male is a really good, you know, sidekick, a really good planner, scheduler, but he's not alpha and he's not going to be able to. And he's not a Beta because he can get girls. But he's, he's got this obsessive passive aggressive type attitude that eventually becomes manifest to where we see beta rage or, excuse me, gamma male rage. Right. And, and whatever you think of Box Day, his characterization of that I think is, is perfectly fitting for the Bear character. By the way, nobody else in their videos. Been watching a bunch of people's videos. Almost everybody's video analysis. This absolutely Sucks. I found one dude who correctly analyzed this. But even the girls, when they analyzed it, even the girls are pretty honest. They're like, yeah, he said he's too much of a nice guy, and it's fake, right? So even the chicks are admitting, like, guys. Girls don't appreciate overly sappy, nice, fake, nice guys. But guys are programmed to think that, oh, if I'm just nice to her and I do everything she says and I worship her, she'll love me back. Why does she love me? Because you're gross. Dude, get this. So he's built up his gumption. He's gonna ask Nikki out. He's walking. He's taking her home after a party, right? They were at some bar, and they're all out, you know, chilling, and they were drinking, have a good time. All the friends, and they're sitting in the car, they have sort of awkward discussion about romance versus love story. She says, you know what I want to do? I really want to write. I'm going to write a story. About what? What's going to be a love story? And Bear says, oh, you mean like romance? And she says, no, a love story story. So that lets us know that both of these characters have very different ideas as to what those words mean. Even though the words are kind of ambiguous. They obviously, they kind of overlap. But we see that Nick is this sort of hopeless gamma beta simp romantic. And he should have already clued into the fact that Nikki just told him basically through that exchange, I'm not into that, that I want it to be a love story. So he should at least realize, okay, she has a different idea about what love is. She doesn't think that it's my idea of beta simpi romance, whatever that is. But he doesn't pay attention. He never watches and pays attentions to the clues, the signals that Nikki sends consistently for the first 10 minutes of the movie. Which is fascinating when it comes to all the, you know, red pill, pua pickup artist game, incel feminist analyses, right? It's just rife. Like the first act is all that he doesn't pay attention. She does. However, as you guys noted, and as other analyzers probably noted, she does drop a few hints that there's a possibility that you and I could go out. She says, nobody ever knows when I like somebody. Now, why is she telling Bear this, right? And she says, did you want to say something to me? And he's about to say, either oh, you're my whole world. I worship you. Which is. Would be the worst thing to say, or he's about to ask her out, right? I think if he had asked her out the whole movie, it would have been a totally different story. What does he do? He pusses out. He pushes out and says, oh, freaky Nikki. Which was the term that he knows triggers her, right? She got made fun of when she was in school together, when they were in elementary school. She doesn't like the term. He thinks that if he turns it into a neg, which I think what is what his. His buddy said to do. Just. He said, just Negro, dude, make fun of her a little bit. He says playfully, make fun of her. But the problem is that the discussion they were having wasn't playful and banter. It was awkward. And he thought, I'll default to trying to nagger and be funny. And she's like, why would you say that to me? And he's like, oh. So now he realizes he's really up, right? There was also another clue, too, by the way, when he kind of hinted at. Yeah, it's almost like, what if we went out and she goes, ew. That was a clue. That in your present state, no, dude, you got to do some major work. Because your Persona, your personality, it's npc. It's boring, it's bland. You're not you. You've got no game, dude. You've got no Riz. But instead of any of that, instead of changing any of his behaviors, he decides, what if I could just change her to be what I want? And this is where we begin to realize, okay, Bear's not actually a nice guy. The nice guy is the gamma facade for a vengeful, cowardly gamma male. The movie then, as you guys probably know, introduces the urban legend element of it, which is this novelty shop where he's just sort of wandering around, I think the next day, or had done this prior. Prior to this interaction, he had picked up for fun this little snap toy that is a cursed object. It's called the wishing willow, right? So it's a little. Presumably a willow branch that when you snap it, if you make a wish, you know, sort of like a genie thing, you get one wish and it comes true, right? And yes, it is a. What's called a monkey's paw story. For those that don't know, Monkey's Paw is a kind of urban legend cautionary tale where the thing that you want, the thing that you wish for, becomes the thing that is the punishment, or you get more than you wish for. Right? This whole. All these tropes that is this also keep in mind this is not a, A strict horror movie. This is also a dark comedy. So there's actually quite a few really funny elements, which is weird because usually horror movies, if they choose to be horror comedies, they're full on comedic. It's not scary. This movie does a really good job of bridging the gap of being both creepy and funny at the same time, which is a very challenging mix. And they, they did very well making it still to be funny at the same time as she gets demonically possessed. Yes.

[Caller/Viewer]

You.

[Jay Dyer]

You probably wondered, is this going to go in the direction of demonic possession? Absolutely. The obsession. What's the title of the movie is possession. So when he snaps this, he says, yeah, I wish, I wish she loved me more than anything in the world. It was obsessed with me, blah, blah, blah.

[Caller/Viewer]

Right.

[Jay Dyer]

And initially he doesn't think that it works. He was just kind of playing around and doing it for fun. And lo and behold, she suddenly wants to come hang out with him and he's sort of mystified. He thinks, did this actually work? There's no way that could really work. Right. And I did hear one evangelical dude made a good point about this video. He said it made me think of Romans 1, where, you know, in Romans 1 we have the mention that when we don't put God first, what happens is other things become our God. And then God has a tendency to punish us with giving us the thing that we want, handing us over to our wicked desires, so that we would then learn through a chastisement that that's not what we really wanted. Right. It was a form of idolatry. This is instructed too for Protestants, because Protestants always think of idolatry as, oh, you create a statue and you bow down to it. Right. They only think about it in an external way. No, an idol is anything in your heart that replaces God being first and foremost, bodily actions reflect the interior desires. So you can't locate, quote, idolatry merely in prostrating or bowing or creating an image. Those are not the essence of idolatry. Those are just. Just potential things that you could be idolatrous with. And so keep that in mind because this whole movie actually is about indirectly. I mean, I don't think the directors were Christian or anything like that, but even unbelievers can at times hit on these Christian points or these spiritual warfare, you know, virtuous vice type stories. So the monkey's paw tends. Ends up being like, way worse than he expected. And we begin to see, even though they, for the first few weeks of dating are super into each other, they're super in love. It turns out that Nikki is so obsessed with Bear that she begins to lie about things to make sure that they don't spend any time apart. And as this progresses and as Nick begins to catch her lying, we already have this ominous sense that it's going to get worse and worse. And there's an omen. These types of films always present an omen. Nick's cat gets into grandma's pills and for some reason eats them and dies. And so we see, oh, if Nick's cat dies, we know that Nick is not going to fare well in this tragedy. But the film does an amazing job of presenting Nikki's transformation into becoming more and more demonically possessed. Now I know that technically, again, the author, the, the makers of the film say, well, we're not really doing a demon, you know, exorcism type of movie. But I think if you're a Christian and you see this, that's actually totally what's going on. Because she ends up with two personalities. There's still the core personality of Nikki that's there that actually comes out and speaks sometimes and she wonders what's going on, where am I, why am I here living at your house with you, what, why am I in your bed? This kind of stuff. Right. But most of the time it's the demonic entity that's there. And the other element that I want to get to about the friend zone here is that it's a cautionary tale also for dudes that, that get mad at women because women are women. Women are made to be women. They're made to be nurturers. They're made to be the way that they are for family and for children and for the close knit circles. That's the positive side of what women and their, the way they're made, that's what they're made for are when you take that positive side and turn it to being weaponized with things like feminism and with radical, you know, women's independence and I don't need no man and I'm gonna be a career woman, all that kind of stuff, that's when feminine nature becomes toxic. And what's interesting is that in the case of Nikki in the story, you can tell she's actually looking for a strong male in her life. And even though she characterizes Bear as in a way, her brother, and she references Hansel and Gretel later on in the story, she's consistently left open before she gets cursed. The possibility of being with him if he had changed his ways. But there's another element that comes up later that I liked, which is that Nikki is no princess. She's no person to put on a pedestal. And that's the problem with a lot of the Betas and the simps and the Gammas is that they actually have a completely erroneous idea of what a woman is. They think that a woman is some sort of thing on a pedestal, that if they simp for them, the woman will eventually acquiesce. Like, we're in some, you know, middle ages, and you're a knight and you're going to save her from the dragon. We don't. That's not reality. Okay. We find out later on, oh, Nikki was banging his buddy. So she had been hooking up this whole time with his bad boy buddy who told him to nag her. This is pretty devastating to Bear when he finds this out because he had put her on the pedestal. In other words, he had created a fantasy girl, pasted that onto Nikki. It didn't exist. He was in love with a lie. And this is a commonality that we'll see between obsession and the back rooms is that they both have characters who decide, I'm going to live in this lie other than what's reality, because that's. I would rather it be that. Right. That will be the exact same fate as Clark in the back rooms. All right, so as the curse progresses, we know things are getting worse and worse. We know. Yeah, Nikki's gonna even start unaliving people because she doesn't want them coming in the way of her obsession with Bear. Bear gradually begins to regret this. It gets crazier and crazier. She turns into the absolute psycho girlfriend that I'm sure many of us have experienced or been around or dealt with. We've all had. I've had ex girlfriends that busted out my front door. They were so mad. I've had ex girlfriends do all kinds of stuff. Trying to think of the worst. I think that the one that busted out my. My. The glass in my screen door was probably the most extreme. That was when I was, like, 19. I'm trying to think of anything else. I don't think I ever got, like, slapped or. I might have had one girl slap me one time. I don't really remember.

[Caller/Viewer]

But

[Jay Dyer]

we've all, I'm sure, had some kind of, like, you know, psycho, obsessive ex girlfriend or something. And you just see, like, this beginning honeymoon phase gradually turns to absolute misery when he decides that he's going to have to take her to this party, right? He wanted to go to this party without her. He wanted her to stay home because she's acting so weird. And she goes absolutely histrionic. Throws a fit, goes insane, starts hurting herself, right? So she will even hurt herself to make sure that Bear will include her in every single thing. They can't be a part at all. And he has to go through insane levels of stuff to even go to work for the full day. There's like, there was a great creepy scene where she's standing at the door smiling as he leaves to go to work. And then when he comes home from work, she's still standing there smiling. That was. That was really well done. There's some really gross scenes in this movie, too, that I won't mention. But it is worth mentioning the grape part because, like I said, it's not totally a feminist movie. There's a little bit of that. But I think the reason they included this. This idea of. Of Bear making his move on her. When he realizes that his monkey's paw trick worked, what does he immediately do? He bangs her. He decides, okay, I'm gonna get laid now, right? Because that's what he wanted all along. And the reason that's in the film is that we're learning that, okay, he's not actually a nice guy, right? Because it's akin to somebody, like, realizing, oh, you know, the.

[Caller/Viewer]

The.

[Jay Dyer]

The drug I put in her drink actually worked, so now I'm going to do it, right? So he makes that move once he. He realizes that the. The curse worked because he's not a good guy, right? If he really cared about her, as he claimed, then he wouldn't have raped her once. She was not all there, right? So this is telling us that. No, actually he's. It's a perfect example of what, you know, is called gamma rage. All right, so moving on. He takes her to the party. She freaks everyone out of the party because she, in a very demonic way, recites this Hansel and Gretel poem that she's concocted. And it has a reference to the willow tree, which is a reference to the object that he broke. Right? So the demon is saying this to mess with Bear, to remind him that you put us both under this curse. You are now cursed because you utilized a form of occultism to get your way and to not do it the way that, for example, God set up boundaries and proper ways to do things. So a lot of times the occult deals with transgressing boundaries to get what you want, right? Magic is enforcing your will in ways that God said, don't do that. And that's why usually in the case of Tantra or with, like, say, Crowley. Crowley says, for example, if you really want to magically charge things, you do actions that are considered inversion. So instead of normal coedis with the vajayjay, you do the opposite. You do the booty thing, because that's more of an inversion. So there's more magical power quote unquote, in the inversion action. So likewise here, because he. And it's not really about the occult per se. It's just kind of loosely referencing this with. In kind of a fun, jovial way with this novelty occult shop where he bought the willow. She's fully possessed. And by the way, I like that they did the possession scenes in a very unique, creepy way. I've never seen a movie do it that way. I think that's why a lot of people resonating with this being a genuinely creepy horror movie is that it's not Linda Blair, you know, puking up, you know, green puke everywhere. It's just really odd sorts of movements, really odd facial contortions. Really odd. You know, the way that she moves is. Is they did it really well. It's also really funny, as I said. So maybe I should hold off on. Well, I. I'll say this. I'm not gonna. I won't spoil the movie if I tell you the. The point of the movie, because you can go watch and see the ending itself. I'm sure many of you have not seen it yet, but if you do want to watch is genuinely creepy. It's a little gross. I wouldn't. I wouldn't watch it with kids. It's not a kid movie, definitely for adults, but it's a cautionary tale because the moral of the story ends up being that. That a lot of times we think that if we just will what we want to be the case, we'll be happy. And providentially, the world is structured such that there are delineations and limitations that will prevent us from getting what we think we want. And that's actually for our own good. So if I was a young dude and I was upset about the way the world is with women and how women are today, you can get on the Internet and you can all day and yes, I know if, of course, feminism is the root problem, but you being mad and upset about feminism is never going to fix your life until you decide, I'm gonna opt out. And I'm going to transform myself. And I know that sounds like, you know, basic self help type stuff, but it's actually true. And that's the message that we have about Bear in the story. And the director himself said in one of the interviews that, well, his name is Bear on purpose because he's a predator. A predator in the genuine sense. Not in the, like the way feminists say all men are predators, but a predator in the genuine sense that all of his Persona of being a nice guy was not even true. In other words, he would have been better off if he'd just been an. He probably would have done better than being the fake gamma rage nice guy. Because eventually it all comes out that he's not a nice guy at all. He's actually murderous. He's actually totally subversive and totally self interested. And Nikki kind of sensed that. And that's why she found him kind of disgusting to begin with, even though she liked him in the sense of him being a kind of a, a, a leading male figure in her life. But you're never going to get out of the friend zone until you become more like what women are attracted to. And I don't care if you think it's corny or if you think it's silly or you don't care. Like you're gonna want a woman, like if I don't care, unless you're just totally asexual, you're gonna want a woman in your life and you have to just, just face up to reality. You have to accept a woman for what she is biologically and mentally. And if you have these fantastical expectations of what you think a woman ought to be, it's, you're never going to be happy. You're never going to make women into being men. You're never going to make them into being something other than what they are. So the sooner you accept feminine nature, which is fine, it's good in itself. It's okay for women to not be into metaphysics. It's okay for women to not be into medieval Byzantine battle strategies. For all you spurgs. It's okay for women to like feminine things. It's okay for women to, you know, not want to do dude activities because that's not what they're made for. Now granted, it is difficult given that many of them, most of them today, have been indoctrinated and they want to be like dudes. They want to supplant dudes. I get it. But you're never gonna argue them into your position. The only way you're going to escape this back room is for you to become a man that is valued. And I don't mean that in the corny, you know, sense of, like, girls want me now. Like, I mean, not just having a Bugatti, right? I mean, more than that. Like in a genuine sense of like, you're. You're running your own. You're starting your own business, you're in control of your life. That's when you're gonna attract a female. But that's not at all what Bear does in the film. Bear is the exact opposite. He's listless. He doesn't have a career, he doesn't have a path. He doesn't have any idea what he wants to do. He's working as a wagecock at this guitar shop. He's just a, you know, I just want to play guitar or whatever. That kind of a guy, right? Well, that's not attractive. He lives with his grandmother, right? If Bear had ambition, had incentive, had drive, was not obsessive about Nikki, he could have already been with Nikki because the other girl at work liked him. And Nikki would have found that attractive because the other girl liked him, right? He could have triangulated and played them off. If he had flirted with the Asian girl at work, Nikki would have found that attractive, active.

[Caller/Viewer]

That's not fair.

[Jay Dyer]

That's playing games. Well, that's reality. Like, that's just part of the dance of nature to play this sort of dance. Animals do that, you guys. Animals in nature will play the love dance before the animals mate. You see birds chasing each other. And I'm not saying you have to be a simp that chases. I'm saying you play the game in a smart way if you're single. Because everybody knows hopefully by now that, like, obsessive, needy dudes, that's like the number one. You're done, you're out. That's why you're in the friend zone, right? So bears gamma rage in the friend zone led him to these heinous actions. And although I don't think the film is mainly about incel culture, I think that it's partly about that. It's partly about how we get from a gamma male with gamma rage into total sort of incel insanity is I'm not going to accept what a woman is. I'm going to try to force her to be the fantasy thing that I want. There you go. That's why I found this to be fascinating. And perhaps also everybody likes it because it speaks to. There's actually, I Didn't realize this until I was watching a bunch of people's analyses. There's a term for this called liminance, all right? And this is just. Some woman made this up. But it's a, it's a, it's a helpful term because liminance is the idea of projecting onto a person the fantasy that you want as an escape versus who they really are in reality. So it's, it's a form of loving and believing a lie. And then the lie entraps you and becomes your prison. And that will play into the next analysis, by the way, which is the two characters in the back rooms. And I like that they chose two different characters. One who's a tragedy and one who appears to be a little more of a, of a hero, I guess you could say, because both characters are traumatized and, and imprisoned by things in their past. Right? Both Klein and Doctor. Dr. Klein and Clark have to overcome. And you either overcome or you perish through guilt and, and believing and loving. A lie. Self deceptive again, like Paul talks about in Romans 1. So let's move on to back rooms. I, I enjoy back rooms a little bit more. I mean, the women on the Internet are just, they love obsession. Dude, there's like, when I, when I was clicking analyses, there's like two dudes and now analyzing it. And like, dude, women are loving this. So guys, if you want to strike up a conversation with a woman, you're looking for a icebreaker topic. Watch obsession. Take some notes, listen to what I'm saying. There you go. It's perfect. Icebreaker right there. Women are loving this movie. I see like non stop analyses all over. Another thing you could do too, just as a fun experiment is if you're a guy, watch some of these women's analyses of the movie. Because you'll notice when a guy analyzes the movie, it's very different from what a girl talks about and analyzes in the movie. Right? But you'll get an idea of what a girl is thinking about and what she resonates with. I know there's like, guys are like, I don't give a. Why would I do that? Like, I know that you don't. I'm not telling you to be a simp. I'm saying to understand how a woman thinks and understand what they, what their drives are. Okay? Even though women have been programmed with feminism and all this stuff, their biological programming is still more fundamental and more in tune with God and with nature than the, the indoctrination. Because even these feminist Women, right? They realize, hey, I have a biological clock. I want to have kids. Right? Not telling you to get yourself enveloped with some crazy feminist and wreck your life. That's not what I'm telling you to do. I'm just making generalized statements. And it's not impossible to have a wife or to find a woman. I did it. I mean, yeah, it was 10 years ago, but I mean, it's still possible. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Calm down. What? What are you talking about? I'm trying to help you guys out. I feel like a lot of guys think I'm not going to learn all this stuff unhinging. What are you talking about? I don't care. I'm just going to be me. Well, I mean, you could do that. But again, I still feel like most people's biological programming at some point is going to kick in and, I mean, you're gonna want to have a female intimate companion at some point in your life. Right? I mean, your. Your sock and your hand and your, you know, being alone is not gonna do it for you. I. I think for most dudes. Right. And a lot of dudes like to talk on there. Not me. Dude. I don't give a. I'll be alone for forever. Really? You sure about that?

[Caller/Viewer]

All right.

[Jay Dyer]

Anybody? Devin, we do have a couple people here. Do you want to talk about obsession? Because if you got questions about theology and all that, we're gonna do that later. So we're not doing Bible talk, Q A catechumen stuff right now. So please don't ask me questions unless it's about this. But you're welcome to if you have a comment or topic on the movie.

[Caller/Viewer]

No. So I actually just jumped on your live.

[Jay Dyer]

That's fine.

[Caller/Viewer]

Know that. Is this like a specific topic day?

[Jay Dyer]

Well, just for right now, but what's your question about?

[Caller/Viewer]

So I guess it'll be. I can't make it quick. It was two questions, but first it was. It's a theological question. It has nothing to do with anything talking about. Off.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay. What is it?

[Caller/Viewer]

So the first thing. So I'm a new convert to Orthodoxy.

[Jay Dyer]

I haven't.

[Caller/Viewer]

Not fully catechized or whatever cateches when it comes to.

[Jay Dyer]

I like that one. Catechized

[Caller/Viewer]

when it comes to the idea of an ancestral sin. Right. Something I'm noticing different than Protestantism, I guess, is. Would you say the orthodox position is that we inherit the corruption from what Adam did, but not guilt that he received? Correct.

[Jay Dyer]

Yes.

[Caller/Viewer]

Okay.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. And you can. I've Gotta, I've gotta. I've got a whole three hour talk on that. So just look up original sin, Augustine, Calvin and inherited guilt. And there's a whole. I'm not gonna be rude, but yeah, there's whole talk on that. Okay, so let's get to the back rooms because I loved it. I thought it was great, had a blast. It was like seeing a David lynch movie back on screen after, you know, no more David Lynch. It was. I don't. I mean, there was. Jamie thought that the woman, the, the Nordic Dutch woman or whatever she is, that she wasn't the best actress and she might be like a. A beauty pageant type of person. So she might not actually be an actress. She was a little wooden, but other than that, like, I mean, the black dude played it perfect. Perfect. Like he played his character amazingly. And we of course did the. The whole philosophical analysis of the back rooms the other day on my channel. If you want to watch that. I'm not going to repeat all of that. I want this to be new material and new information relevant to the movie because the movie just came out. But if you come over here to my channel in the video section right here, the last. Not live stream, but the last video was a collation of just the philosophy of the back rooms from the live stream nine days ago. So if you want the philosophy, back rooms and the cultural critique, you can go watch that. Today we're going to focus on the esoteric side because the movie actually ended up being way more esoteric than I expected. Not that I thought Kane Parsons couldn't pull it off. I think he created a really fascinating genre of found footage Internet sphere lore, which is impressive for a kind of, you know, young film student type of dude. And that says a lot because I hate found footage movies. I think they suck. I think they're annoying. I get it. They're easy and cheap to make and if you can pull it off, you make a lot of money. I get it, but I just don't watch like the genre. I'm tired of it. We've seen it a thousand times since Blair Witch Project. I think Blair Witch was pretty good, but that's about it. I. I saw one other found footage movie that I thought was okay. Bobcat, Gulf Weight, could have been okay. It was kind of short and goofy, but it wasn't terrible. But usually I don't like the genre, but Kane pulled it off. This. This was great. Basically, if you don't know, back rooms are this idea that you have a realm or a world that exists parallel to ours or that is accessible to our, that is completely unexplainable. It's a dimension or a labyrinth of corporate 80s 90s era culture that's sort of frozen in time and extends infinitely.

[Caller/Viewer]

Right.

[Jay Dyer]

If you ever had a dream where you are walking through a bunch of rooms, I've had several dreams like this. And you just kind of move from room to. And it never ends. It's like you're in some giant house with never ending rooms. The back rooms are kind of like that, but they also have a flavor of the 80s and 90s 90s frozen in that period for whatever reason, perhaps because that's the last remembrance that we have as a people, as a culture to a world prior to the Internet, right? The 80s and the 90s. After that the Internet becomes all pervading. The Internet takes over. And prior to that you had, for example, at your workplace, your own cubicle, you had your own space, you had your own own computer, your own desk. All of that has gone away because nowadays you either work at home or workspaces are replaced with the open shared desks that all the employees have. So there's a gradual moving away from independent, meaningful historical existence. And if you watch the other stream where we cover the back rooms, we talked at length about how the backrooms are also essentially the erasing of history. Right. The back rooms don't have a history and they don't have a future. They're just a sort of eternal present where there's nothing meaningful. There's just a bunch of office furniture, a bunch of displays. It would be like going to, you know, the furniture shop where they have like makeshift fake kitchens and bedrooms and taking acid. And you would sort of experience it as this sort of never ending, meaningless corporatism where the objects aren't even used for the purpose that they exist for. Right? Because when you go to the showroom at the furniture store, those are beds and settings and furniture that no one's going to actually sleep in or live, live on. They're just there for show. And so it becomes a very powerful symbol for a future that becomes antinatalist and anti human. And the objects just exist to exist. And in the back rooms there's almost no people every now. And there's sort of an unfortunate soul that wanders into them or gets into them. But the people in the back rooms, as I said, by the way, in my analysis nine days ago, the people become like the products, they become kind of of fake consumer products. And I thought that scene where you actually have the sofa people in the movie. That was excellent. That was great. Right? You've got these people that are actually just almost husks or kabbalistic clefot. They're the hus. They're Gollum type people because they're just simply consumer products. They're NPCs. And yes, the film does play pretty consistently on. It's like Acid Trip in ikea. Pretty perfect example. Exactly. As you guys are saying in the chat. In the chat. But there's a couple things that the film references that are explicitly crolian and esoteric that I did not expect. But before we get to that, I thought it was great the way they. They set this up as basically two characters. Characters, one of whom is tragic, one of whom overcomes. And the first being Clark, who is the black guy that works at the furniture shop. It's actually his furniture shop. We don't know if he's the owner or the, you know, manager exactly what his role is. But Clark works at Captain Clark's Ottoman Empire, which is great because the corporate logo of Clark himself as the Ottoman cap. And it doesn't even make sense, right, because it's like it's a play on words with the ottomans and, and the furniture and it's the Ottoman Empire. But he's a pirate. And they even make a joke about it within the film because he hires these, you know, his co workers, these, these teenagers to. To film him for a commercial for local tv. And he's dressed up like a pirate. And the guy filming him is like a, you know, California ser. He's like, like, so like Clark, like what are you like a Muslim sultan? Or are you like a pirate? And Clark's just like, it doesn't matter, just film it, right? So he's miserable and he goes to a therapist who is the woman, who is doctor. Dr. Klein, right? That's the woman here that you see. She ends up being his therapist. And it takes place in 1990, which fits into the actual lore of Kane Parsons story of the back rooms. And the film begins with the Async Corporation who is studying the back rooms, right? We see that at the very beginning where we see some scientists are watching a found footage discovery that someone had made of the back rooms in the past. It's left unclear. We see some entity attack the person that was lost in the back rooms, but we don't exactly know what's going on. And then it flashes to Clark, who is a miserable manager at this furniture store. And then he goes to meet with Dr. Klein, the woman who is his therapist. And he explains that I'm miserable because I'm. I'm out of my own house. Right. I was living with my. My woman. She kicked me out. I came home drunk one night. Now I live. We don't know where, an apartment. We don't know. He might even be sleeping at the store. We get some indications that he might even just be staying there, Right. And sleeping on the beds. Because a couple nights, he does that under the auspices of trying to figure out what the weird electrical disturbances are at. At the store. And she says, well, maybe you need to alter some of your behaviors. Right. She kind of gives him some basic therapy advice. And we immediately see that Clark will have none of it. Right. Clark launches into a rage at the mere discussion of the possibility that Clark might be responsible for some of his problems. Right. I mean, Dr. Klein is even willing to kind of grant that, you know, maybe your wife is the problem, but could you. You alter any of your behaviors, and Clark will have none of it. Right. So Clark has absolutely no responsibility. Just like bear and obsession. Clark doesn't want to admit that any of the problems in his life are his fault. That would be very important for what happens in the back rooms and for the whole story, ultimately. So he. He goes to therapy, which is interesting because he. He doesn't want to any change. So it almost. We wonder, why are you even in therapy? Like, what's the point of it? If the point is just to. It's almost like you just want somebody to. Right. And the more she discusses change or making change, the more he gets angry. And we see a montage of Clark driving, and he parks outside of his house, where presumably his wife had kicked him out. Out, right. We see him in other instances outside of houses, knocking and looking in the window. That will be very important because later on, when Clark's lost in the back rooms, he says, I made the mistake of opening the window. I opened the window. What I think this means is that there was a point when his wife kicked him out. And because he was drunk and he was in a rage, presumably he smashed open a window or tried to sneak in through a window when she had kicked him out. And this presumably probably led to a domestic disturbance, a dispute, who knows? But for Clark, opening the window was a kind of stepping over the line in terms of moral transgressions or in terms of his wife, like, saying, basically, all right, right. This is. This is. You crossed the line, right? You've gone too far. Whether that's right or wrong like that in Clark's mind. And Clark's psyche is what has imprisoned him in this. I blame all the world. I didn't do nothing. Right. Clark is a didn't do nothing throughout the movie. And every time anybody tries to kind of edge Clark in the direction of. Of self improvement or responsibility, Clark launches into an rage. He just will have none of it. No. So there's a narcissistic, and I mean this in the genuine sense of a narcissism, not in the overused YouTube sense. Right. Narcissistic people, for example, real ones, will never admit error. They will never admit a mistake. For some, they're so fragile that for them to ever do that, it would be the collapsing of their whole Persona because they're under the impression that they're essentially perfect. Right. They actually can't do. Do any wrong because they're above right and wrong right. The, the, the. The real narcissistic psycho person generally, like, doesn't think that they can do wrong because the laws and the rules that everyone else is under don't apply to them.

[Caller/Viewer]

Them.

[Jay Dyer]

So for them to admit that they were wrong for them, it would be akin to saying that they're a normie or a human like everyone else when they think that they're basically God people. Right. And I, I think that I forget this black actor's name, but I mean, he just, He's a phenomenal actor in this role. Like, he just plays it perfectly and he gets. We know as the film is progressing, the dread with Clark gets more and more intense. But the film also did a really good job of making us think that perhaps Clark will find redemption. Is it possible? Can he get out of the prison that he's constructed for himself in his mind, in his past? And I, I think a lot of people too overlook the fact that he's always shown kind of outside of buildings looking in and knocking on the windows, because when he gets lost in the back. Back rooms, he scrolls onto the. The wall. Something about you should. I should have never opened the window. Once I open the window, I let him in. Which presumably will refer to the sort of demonic type of entity that inhabits the back rooms. In the back rooms. Here's the great secret I'll go and tell you right now. The back rooms are really a synthesis between a real place and a place that your history and past and memories import upon it. So there's a observer and observed synthesis, reality going on, kind of like a dream state, right. When you're In a dream state, you're dealing with things that are in your mind and in your psyche, in your soul, but they're also, in a degree, not you, because there's something that you're interacting with and experiencing. But the observer is affecting the external world in the dream state, much like the observer affects one's experience of the backrooms. And you. If you paid attention, if you watch the film, you would note that every time one of the characters, that the new character enters the back room, they encounter some detail unique to them in their experience of the back room. For example, when Clark first enters, he sees a pile of clothes and trash, which are several items related to his commercial that he shot. He sees his costume of the pirate. He sees a couple other.

[Caller/Viewer]

The.

[Jay Dyer]

The.

[Caller/Viewer]

The.

[Jay Dyer]

The fake parrot that he wore for the commercial. And that's very significant because for Clark, those represent his ultimate humiliation. To have to film that stupid commercial in the mascot of Captain Clark's Ottoman Empire was for him the ultimate demonic form of humiliation.

[Caller/Viewer]

Right.

[Jay Dyer]

When the California surfer dude enters the back rooms with Clark and they're filming it, he sees his T shirt that he was wearing, right? He gets down to the lower levels. And if you think about the way ancient societies, for example, they would describe the underworld very much like they would describe the subconscious. The Egyptians thought of it this way, for example. So the underworld was a maze for Egyptians. And Carl Jung writes about this is something I think Carl Jung is insightful about. The underworld is kind of like a maze, but it's the maze of you and your past and your history, your memories, your soul, your psyche. And that can be perhaps tapped into when a person is in their subconscious. And I suspect that perhaps things like intense hallucinogens, those can bring to the surface perception, those elements of what's in the subconscious or the unconscious. Right? And this. This is very common in literature too, by the way. A lot of horror movies use this imagery. You go down to the basement to access the underworld world, which is the abyss, which is the unconscious realm. And that is perhaps as you. As you go down, the entities of the abyss, they emerge and present themselves in those realms. That is what's going on in the back rooms. Because if you recall, as Clark is exploring it and as he goes and gets his two employees to come down there with him, they find an area that goes down even further. And he's very curious about what's down there. And he's. They send the, you know, the dumb California dude, surfer dude down there. And when he gets down There it's darker, dingier, trashier, as if they're going deeper and deeper into almost Dante's Inferno levels of. Right. The abyss. He gets down there and he sees elements of his own that blow his mind.

[Caller/Viewer]

Right.

[Jay Dyer]

And that's the horror is that they're beginning to realize that I'm not just in a evil space, I'm in an evil space that reflects me and my own fears and terror. Right. And, and that's made very clear as more characters enter the back rooms. Right now Clark, unfortunately ends up getting lost in the back rooms. And we kind of think we don't know what's going on, right. He's, he's forgotten, he's lost. We also see by the way things in the back rooms that are out of. They're glitchy, there's half of a sofa stuck to a wall, there's a stop sign where the stop is written in reverse. Right. And that again, I think recalls elements of Twin Peaks as, you know, when Agent Cooper or Laura Palmer, when they're in the back room or when they're in the, the, the, the, the waiting room or the other place, things go in reverse. People talk in reverse, right. Things are inverted in this realm of potentiality or this realm of the impossible made possible this dream realm, the shackosphere, to use Agent Russ or to use Russ Cole's terminology from True Detective. Okay. We also. The seagull was interesting. I'm still not exactly sure what to make of the seagull sequences because I heard different people's theories on what the seagull meant. I also think that again, you know, the back rooms just kind of manifest elements of your own fears and desires and, and memories. So the seagull sequence could have just been the original guy who was in the back rooms at the very beginning. And we don't know who it was. It could have just been stuff from his life, we don't know. Or it's just kind of giving us an element of mystery that we, we don't really know the mechanics of the back rooms. And you're not going to figure out the mechanics of the back rooms. Much like Theseus and the story of the Minotaur, the labyrinth changes. You'll walk down the hall, go to the left, you turn around, and it's all reversed. And the, the mechanics and the logic and the ordering of it just do not make sense. It's very off putting. It's very, it puts you off kilter. And the movie did absolutely phenomenal job of doing that. I mean, the way they, it goes full Alice down the rabbit hole.

[Caller/Viewer]

Hole.

[Jay Dyer]

That's another element I want to get to, which was that there's many sequences I think that speak to. And you guys know we did really in depth analyses of Lewis Carroll's. Both of the books we did Alice in Wonderland and you know, through the Looking Glass. And there's a lot of that at play in this as well. I don't know if Kane Parsons read a lot into that, but. But Lewis Carroll was a mathematician and Carroll made it very clear that he wanted to express the, the way that the mathematics of our world and perhaps other dimensions may work, right? So we think about things that we've covered in the past, like quasi crystals, right? If you don't know quasi crystals are a actual crystal that they use, for example, on non stick is toxic. So don't eat from the nonstick pans or whatever. But some mathematicians and theorists, like Lisa Randall and Brian Green, the sort of quantum physics guy, I don't put a whole lot of stock in the quantum physics stuff, but they point out that when we talk about a tesseract or another dimension, the way that those dimensions work seems to be kind of like the way that quasi crystals actually work. So the, so quasi crystals that are sprayed on your nonstick stuff, it's very slippery because those dimensions are slippery, so to speak. So they will argue, these mathematicians will argue that although we don't know exactly how the next dimension up works, mathematics points to there being a higher dimension and perhaps other dimensions. And we know how 1D works, we know how 2D works, we know how 3D works. But when we describe the mathematics or the geometry of a fourth dimension, the next dimension up, it's called a tesseract. And you can only kind of picture a tesseract in a 2D type of image or in a 3D type of image, right? If you guys don't know what I'm talking about, if you didn't read Wrinkle in Time, you watch. I'm not a huge fan of Carl Sagan, but this is a tesseract, right? If you remember Interstellar, right? When, when Matthew McConaughey steps out of this dimension, he's in a tesseract, right? And he can kind of see past, present and future from different angles, right? And they did, they did a pretty good job in the interstellar of presenting a tesseract. But if you don't know what that is, just go look it up. I'm not going to give you a math lecture that's Boring. So. But. But that also, I think, helps explain kind of what's going on with the liminal space geometry of the back rooms. They make sense, but they also kind of don't make sense. And also, each person's presence affects what presents itself in the back rooms. So in the case of the first guy, it could entirely be the case that there was some seagull, right? That was part of his. His trauma. Because when the entity or the. The demonic presence gets the first guy, it begins with the seagull, you know, killing itself inexplicably. Just falls down dead, almost out of the air, almost glitching out of reality. And then the guy gets attacked, right? And we don't see what attacks him. But a lot of people didn't understand why, when Clark is in the back room, why what attacks him is a giant version of Clark as the mascot of Captain Clark's Ottoman Empire. It's because that was the most humiliating and worst version of Clark in Clark's mind. So the demon manifested as Clark himself in the worst version of Clark. This was so obvious. I can't. I can't understand why people didn't get this or didn't understand it. They were like, why is it a giant stupid pirate? It's the mascot. It's Clark. What are you talking about? It was the worst version of Clark. And so Clark becomes fully enveloped by. And unites himself with the demonic because he realizes. And he gives that great exposition to Dr. Klein when she gets into the back rooms. He says, you know, I realized that the whole problem was that world. And that world made me feel like I had a duty to change. And then I had to do this and this to be good and to be right. And he said, I just don't want to do that. He says, why am I the problem? I'm not the problem. Everybody else is the problem, right? So everything that Dr. Klein tried to tell him, Clark says, yeah, I don't believe any of that, that it's everybody else's problem. And he says, I would rather be alone with myself doing whatever I want with no consequences, right? When he ties down Dr. Klein, when she comes in the back rooms, she says, clark, we can. We can talk out of the. We can get you out of this. We can figure this out. We can make it work. We can get back to reality. Clark says, I don't want to go back to reality. And then he takes the knife, and he. He cuts the foam kabbalistic clefot people up. And he says, look what I Can do. He says, there's no consequences for anything here. He says, this is what I've been looking for. He says, I actually love the back rooms. And she's like, but it's not real. And he's like, so I would rather live in this lie than be in a reality where I have to change myself. I thought that was really well done. And it was mystifying to me why anybody would think that that's not. That wasn't a good message. Now let's move on to Dr. Klein, because as we said, Clark is, of course, a tragic character, but I think a lot of people missed the clue that when Clark wrote on the wall, I made the mistake of opening the window and I let him in, right? And Clark drew a picture of. Of the pirate mascot that he has to dress up as, meaning that at some point he had surpassed some limit of responsibility. And whenever he broke his window to get in his house or busted his wife's bedroom window or we don't know exactly what he did, but something to do with a window, and that was transgressing the line. And basically, Clark said. Said, I. I'm just evil, and I accept it, and I'm not going to change. And I would rather be in a demonic realm. And you'll notice when the demon walks into the room, and Clark's like, it's okay. We're all going to be good. We're all together. We. We all are. One basically says something like that, noting that he had basically been serving the demon. And what was funny about that was that. But this was the one instance where Clark decided that he did want to let Dr. Klein go. And the demon consumes him, right? The demon eats Clark. So Clark, who had essentially given up to this meaningless corporate world where he likes the idea of the other people in the backspaces of the back rooms being furniture. He says, they're like furniture. Look, they're made of stuffing, and you can eat it and you can do whatever you want here. He says, that's what I want. Then he realizes that, wait a minute. What if I'm also a consumable, right? Because he's consuming the other husk people in this realm, Then the demon consumes him. So he realizes that if I make myself into this, if I become this, I also am just another npc. I'm just another meaningless, empty synthoid bot person. I'm like furniture. And the demon consumes him. Well, then the demon goes after and chases Dr. Klein. Now, notice, I thought this was great, too, because this is another one of those Dante's Inferno references. At one point, point when I think this is when Clark is running, right? So there's, there's two running sequences. There's. Which is. I thought this was filmed just awesome. Like there's Clark's running sequence where he runs a couple times through the, the back rooms and then there's Dr. Klein's running sequence which makes up the climax of the film. Clark sequence includes Dante's Inferno references, if you remember. In the Inferno, I think it's at the bottom or next to bottom level when, when Dante is being taken on his journey by Virgil through the Inferno, he sees people that are stuck frozen half in the ground. Given that there is, by the way, a reference to some sort of secret corporate government experiments going on with the Async Corporation studying the back rooms secretly. We might also think that there could be CERN slash, you know, Philadelphia Experiment stuff going on. We don't know because they intentionally left a lot of that up to, to mystery. But. And I don't think CERN is actually altering reality. I think that's kind of silly. But, you know, there is this mythology in the conspiracy world. Some of the more fringe conspiracy stuff includes the idea that, oh, you know, there was this Philadelphia Experiment where they, they were testing, you know, high torsion physics and they accidentally like beamed some Navy dudes halfway into the ship. Right. There was dudes like coming out of the ship.

[Caller/Viewer]

Right.

[Jay Dyer]

I don't think that happened. But it's, it's a, it makes for a fascinating fictional sci fi story adjacent to the conspiracy world. They did make a movie about it. I never watched it. I thought it looked like it was kind of stupid, but.

[Caller/Viewer]

But

[Jay Dyer]

nobody seemed to really mention the Philadelphia Experiment mythology, which Kane Parsons could have been aware of, that he could have played into that. I don't know. I did watch a couple interviews with him, but as one would expect, he didn't really say much about the movie. I think he wanted to kind of leave it up to interpretation. But. So this was a 1984 kind of sci fi movie where they, you know, do this experiment and the, the soldiers get melded halfway into the ship and we see that definitely going on in the back rooms. But although these don't appear to be actual people, they actually appear to be mannequins. But it's also not clear because the, the golem husk people are halfway alive but not really alive. So that's the thing about the backrooms is that again, the metaphysics and the logic of it Constantly kind of don't make sense. And that's the secret horror of the backrooms is not the monster. It's that you don't know what twists and turns and metaphysical insanity the backrooms will pull on you. Because the backrooms are a cosmic horror about your own worst fears. You'll see here, right, there's just random stuff kind of just sticking out of the walls, almost like, you know, a coding error. I don't think that it's intentionally trying to give you a. Oh, we live in a. We live in a simulation, bro. I mean, that's not the main purpose of the film, but there could be an underlying idea that, yeah, we. Maybe we live in a matrix and, you know, maybe the back rooms are kind of like your mind as a computer filling in the gaps. But at some points, it kind of doesn't remember things and it just fills in the gaps and it just kind of sticks stuff in random places. So Dr. Klein is the second character who, after we find Clark being lost in the back room as we switch to Dr. Clark, obviously Dr. Klein, who was his therapist. And of course, initially she didn't believe him. She thought he was insane. He was losing his mind because he lost his wife and he got kicked out of his house. So he invented a fantasy world. Right? That's her obvious assumption as a psychologist. And so I forget exactly what the detail is, but something makes her think that maybe Clark. Oh, it's because Clark didn't return her calls and didn't come in for his. His therapy session. Right. So she thinks maybe I should check in on him. He hasn't shown up for therapy for a while. So she goes to the furniture store, and Clark and his employees are gone because, of course, they're all lost in the back rooms. And she remembers that he did draw a piece of. On a piece of paper for her. Kind of the first sort of, you know, with within walking distance areas of the background back rooms. And he's like, you won't believe this. You got to come see. And, you know, if you get. If you come check it out, blah, blah, blah. Well, so she wanders into the store and realizes that maybe he really did. She goes down to the basement of the. Of the store. She sees a giant whiteboard where Carl had. Or Clark had sketched out the same thing that he drew for her. And so she sees the, you know, portal entrance on the wall. She sees a fly fly through the wall. And she's, of course, mystified, and she walks through. She enters the back rooms. Now, the best part of the movie is the entire Dr. Klein backroom sequence. Because at the beginning of the film, we saw her as a little girl, and her. Her rooms, meaning her apartment where she lived with her mom, are being destroyed by a construction company to build a new modern architecture high rise. This was traumatizing to her because we find out that she had been raised by a mother who was a hoarder and a absolutely insane psycho person. Her mom was a hoarder who believed also had agoraphobia phobia. Right? So she didn't want to go outside. She kept Dr. Klein from the outside world. There was a couple of scenes where she peaks, peeks out the window, and she wants to go outside, and her mom's like, no, don't go out there. You can't go out there. It's. It's a scary world out there, right? So just as she's sort of the inverse of Clark, right? Because Clark was kicked out of his house, not able to get back in his house, and he's constantly shown outside of buildings, looking in, peeking in, knocking. He's not let into people's houses. The reverse is the case with Dr. Klein. She's kicked out of her house because she's taken in by CPS or something. Her mom is committed to an insane asylum because of the hoarding and the agoraphobia. And then presumably she went into, you know, foster care and then grew up to become a therapist. Because her motivation is, after that trauma as a child world, to fix people. She wants to help and to save people. Clark is the opposite because he's an architect and a failed architect. Right. And Clark blames the world for having to work at the furniture store and not become a successful architect. It's the world's fault. But he wants to be a builder, and so his experiences of the back rooms also is a lot of the architecture that he wanted to design but never did. Likewise, Dr. Klein's experiences of the back rooms include elements of her traumas as a child with this psycho, insane, abusive mom and the hoarding, right? So she sees junk everywhere. She sees the same room, one bedroom apartment where she was raised. And so that torments her when she's locked into this room in the back rooms, even though when she first walks in, she runs from the entity and she sees Clark. And we think Clark's gonna help her. She says, clark, you're here. I'm so glad I found you. I'm gonna help you get out. And Clark's like, you're not Gonna help me get out because I like it here. And he grabs her and chokes her. And the movie leaves it ambiguous as to did he kill her to keep her there, or did he just knock her out to tie her up and to explain to her why the back rooms are actually cool. Right? It's kind of unclear. I think it's supposed to be the latter. I think it's supposed to be that he's just tying her down so that he can explain to her later

[Caller/Viewer]

that

[Jay Dyer]

he doesn't want to leave the back rooms. But it's a little bit unclear because if you see. If you remember the last sequence of the film, you'll know why. Right? All right, So I won't spoil. You gotta see the movie if you like this, you know, David lynch liminal space type stuff. Because, I mean, her. Her whole sequence, dude, where she's on the run, I just thought that was awesome. I mean, it was just. Even to the point where when she's almost gonna get away, the last scene where she has to make her run, it's an abyss, right? She gets to this level of the backrooms where it's just an infinite abyss. And in the esoteric occult sphere, a lot of esoteric writers and people who do vision quests and people in the Crowleyan tradition, they talk about confronting this sort of demonic entity before you cross the abyss. That's essentially what's happening here. Now, how do I know that it's Crowian again? The Doctor who. Who's a very minor character who's the. The scientist that's working for the corporation that's studying this phenomenon. He's watching TV with his kids and they're watching the Never Ending Story. And it ha. It's just the sequence where Bastion set yells out moon child. And Michael Enda, who wrote Never Ending Story, was explicitly a Crowley, and he was a devotee of Crowley. Explicitly. I put that in my first book. I was surprised when I saw that because I was like, wait a minute. Never Ending Story. You've got this fictional world where the Nothing is taking over the creation of the creativity that exists in the fantasy world and the creativity of fantasy, the Nothing is coming to take it over. Over. So there's not just the curling reference to the Moon Child stuff, but there's also the idea that the back rooms are like the nothing. Right? The backrooms are eating up and eating into our reality. That's the cosmic horror element of the back rooms. And the Doctor, the scientist guy explains that later on. He's like, we don't know what this phenomena is, but it appears that these rooms are opening up in our world in various places and we don't know why or what it means. Well, if you watch the Never Ending Story, many of us grew up with that. The Nothing is eating up into this world or into that world, right? And in the story of Never Ending Story, Bastion has to, you know, kind of connect with the little princess girl of the the imaginal realm to help save that realm because it's being destroyed by the Nothing. And the Nothing actually seeps into this world and will destroy this world if Bastion doesn't save it. So likewise in the back rooms, we don't know and probably, I think there will be a sequel. Kane spoke as if he wants it to be sequels. That will all obviously depend on whether it's a box office success or not.

[Caller/Viewer]

But

[Jay Dyer]

what I wanted to finally conclude with is this idea of those Crowian and Kabbalistic and even Tibetan Buddhist type ideas that I think perhaps underlie the film. So if we think about Kabbalah here, The Kabbalists, borrowing from ancient Gnosticism and Greek philosophy and from Neoplatonism and from Aristotle, they talk about a realm of potentiality or pure potentiality. And it's called Einsoff. And remember, I'm absolutely correct in citing this because they put the actual Never Ending Story sequence in the back rooms. So I told you guys that's what it would be 10 days ago before you watched it. In Kabbalah, the realm of pure potentiality is the metaphysical space of infinite possibility before it takes actual form. This limitless dimension allows the divine will to manifest those things into our material universe. This encompasses several spiritual mystical concepts. And the first is called the 99 realm or the Ein Sof, or the infinite. At the highest level, potentiality is embodied. In Ein Sof, this translates to without end, the boundless, the Aparon. According to the Greek philosophers, or the.