Gladio, Masonic Hit Squads and the Vatican Bank - Jay Dyer on Reversion

Summary

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Jay'sAnalysis: Operation Gladio, Masonic Hit Squads, and the Vatican Bank
Jay Dyer on Reversion Book Club
April 10, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features Jay Dyer joining the Reversion Book Club to discuss Paul L. Williams’ Operation Gladio: The Unholy Alliance Between the Vatican, the CIA, and the Mafia. The conversation explores high-level collusion between Western intelligence, organized crime, the Vatican, and Freemasonic networks from World War II through the present. The group unpacks historical context, layers of infiltration, financial scandals, blackmail operations, and ongoing implications for religious and global politics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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[Intro – Setting the Stage] (00:54)

• Host expresses gratitude for Dyer’s participation, given his extensive coverage of Gladio-related topics.
• Operation Gladio is introduced as a vital and highly requested book for the club.

[02:04] Dyer on Approach to Research:

• Jay notes he’s read widely on related topics, including texts from both CIA and Soviet/left perspectives, emphasizing the value in cross-examining both sides for admissions about deep state activities.

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What is Operation Gladio? (12:58)

• Jay Dyer provides a clear, concise overview:

“So essentially it evolves out of the post-World War II era plans that the Allies had in terms of how to take over a lot of former Axis intelligence networks... turn those to a means of funding the operations that would be kind of off the books... The Mafia could be an alliance that the CIA could utilize... for the trafficking of drugs... for a lot of intelligence operations... they have to have funding that’s off the books. So... why don’t we fund these operations through drug trade? This is what linked them up with the Vatican Bank…” — Jay Dyer (12:58)

Cells, Networks, and Objectives

• Stay-behind networks trained for sabotage, assassination, and ‘strategy of tension’ (i.e., coordinated false flag terror to shape public opinion/political outcomes).
• Key links: Vatican Bank → Organized Crime (Mafia) → CIA and Western Intelligence → Political/Ecclesial Corruption

False Flag Attacks

• Williams cites a long list of attacks attributed to Gladio (18:06), with at least a dozen in a five-year span in Italy.

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Ongoing Nature of Gladio (05:04, 08:02)

• The operation is described as ongoing, not merely Cold War history.
• Current Vatican bank leadership and scandals (e.g., new CEO linked to Rothschild interests, [05:55]) viewed as represents of uninterrupted globalist influence.
• [09:12] Reports of Vatican being “threatened by the Pentagon” for taking anti-war stances, illustrating present-day collusion/intimidation.

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The Vatican, Papal Compromise, and Masonry (19:26)

• Discussion of the disconnect between Catholic hierarchy’s claimed anti-Masonic stance and realpolitik tolerance or alliance with Freemasonic and criminal networks.
• Example: Photo compromising John Paul II, attempts at blackmail and compromise via CIA/Masonic channels.

[20:54] JP II, Intrigue, and Propaganda

• Alleged “bunga bunga” (Epstein-style) parties for compromising cardinals and leaders.
• CIA’s use of papal partnerships both to fight communism (esp. in Poland) and to stage “hero” narratives (e.g., attempted assassination as propaganda win).
• Example: “...the CIA was latched to the hip of the Vatican throughout the Cold War, and we’re absolutely proud of it.” — Jay Dyer (22:54)

[24:35] Mossad & Vatican

• First papal visit to synagogues, recognition of Israel, and evidence of Mossad bugging Vatican during John Paul II’s reign.

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Financial Structures & Shell Companies (33:13)

• Details of Rockefeller/Mellon bailouts of Vatican bank (33:43).
• Intricacies of shell companies used for laundering proceeds from drug operations through Vatican-controlled institutions.
• Example: $200 million in seed funding, funneling heroin money through black jazz clubs in Harlem.

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Gladio’s Roots in WWII and Organized Crime (29:05-31:16)

• Origins in OSS/CIA alliances with Sicilian mob, P2 and Anglo-American Masonic influence.
• Alan Dulles as key architect (29:47), followed by Donovan, William Colby, William Casey — all facilitating close Vatican/CIA connection.

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The Masonic & Vatican Infiltration Narrative (36:07-38:39)

• Discussion of “Altavendita” and previous (pre-Vatican II) Masonic plots documented in late 19th century.
• Rampola incident (Papabile vetoed for Masonic ties), Knights of Columbus, Knights of Malta, Opus Dei as networks furthering both Catholic and intelligence interests.

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Blackmail, Espionage, and Sexpionage Legacy (66:47)

• Operation Gladio framed as blueprint for future deep state-blackmail operations (e.g., Epstein).
• Connection: “...it’s a window into how the power structure does this. How they compromise entire countries. Yeah, it seems like sexual espionage is... everywhere.”
• Historical continuity: Medieval, biblical, and modern regimes use compromise as a control technique.

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Hollywood, Media, and Culture (27:11, 74:26)

• Films like The Godfather and Goodfellas directly reflecting Gladio realities; financing and consulting by real underworld/CIA-linked players.
• Operation Mockingbird and the intelligence capture of Western news media.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Masonic-Vatican contradictions:
  “...this notion that the Vatican or the Catholic Church has been always anti masonry... then goes on to discuss how on the other hand the papacy kind of turned a blind eye to it.”
  — Host (19:26)

• On Vatican’s longstanding financial compromise:
  “...Rothschilds since the 1830s have been the official papal bankers. So this is par for the course.”
  — Jay Dyer (05:55)

• On Cold War propaganda and papal optics:
  “...the CIA actually won the Cold War, at least optically and propaganda wise, through John Paul II.”
  — Jay Dyer (22:54)

• On secret societies and Epstein:
  “...it does look like that one picture, you know, Epstein had a set of the Talmud behind him. So that suggests the same thing.”
  — Jay Dyer (53:08)

• Historical “sexpionage” precedence:
  “I mean, you see honey traps in the Bible, right? I mean, Delilah is a honey trap.”
  — Jay Dyer (76:06)

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Notable Timestamps

• 00:54 – Reversion Book Club welcomes Jay Dyer and introduces Operation Gladio
• 12:58 – 18:06 – Jay Dyer's thorough summary: What is Operation Gladio?
• 19:26 – Masonic infiltration and Vatican complicity
• 24:35 – Mossad, the Vatican, and diplomatic shifts
• 29:05 – 31:16 – CIA origins and ties with organized crime/Masonry
• 33:13; 33:43 – Rockefeller, financial scandal, laundering via Vatican banks
• 39:48 – Knights of Malta and the attempted assassination of JP II
• 66:13 – Gladio as a blueprint for modern blackmail/sexpionage (Epstein analogy)
• 74:26 – CIA control of media, Mockingbird, and ongoing global influence

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Audience Q&A and Broader Connections

• Discussion includes parallels to modern intelligence/compromise operations (Epstein, FTX).
• Audience raises questions on Vatican I/II, Anglicanism, and orthodoxy.
• Recommendations for further reading: Wim Hof's Doctrinal Warfare Program, Daniel Ganser's work, and Sexionage (history of sexual blackmail).

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Conclusion

This episode offers an in-depth, richly referenced examination of Operation Gladio, emphasizing its foundational role in the postwar West’s deep state power structure, its reliance on organized crime and Freemasonic networks, and its ongoing relevance in current events involving the Vatican, global finance, and intelligence agencies. The dialogue benefits from Jay Dyer’s command of both mainstream and alternative scholarship and is a vital resource for anyone seeking to understand the interplay of religion, intelligence, criminality, and geopolitics in modern history.

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Further Reading Recommendations:

• Wim Hof: Doctrinal Warfare Program
• Daniel Ganser: NATO's Secret Armies
• Gordon Thomas: Gideon's Spies: The Secret History of the Mossad
• Paul L. Williams: Operation Gladio
• Edward Bernays: Propaganda
• Alison Weir: Against Our Better Judgment

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Transcript

[Jay Dyer]

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Start your free [e-mail] foreign. Welcome to the Reversion Book Club. I've got a very special guest today that I would assume needs no introduction. We've got Jay Dyer joining us here in our humble book club after doing a bunch of appearances on some very high level podcast. So I very much appreciate that he has taken the time to join us here to discuss the book we've been reading for the past month or so, Operation Gladio. This is a very highly requested book. I know that many of the people requesting it were probably familiar with it through Jay's content. So when I was thinking about who to bring on to discuss it, you know, we try to get the authors themselves if we can. I don't have contact with with Paul Williams, so I figured Jay's the best guy that I am able to bring on to talk about it. So yeah, thanks for joining us, man.

[Jay Dyer]

Absolutely, man. We had a good conversation last time. So I'm glad to be back with you. And I see your channel's doing well and popping off. So that's really cool. You know, I've read several books in this domain that go along with this. There's a couple other Gladio texts and then there's also a CIA dud Reed's book about KGB in the Vatican. And I'm not citing him, but interesting is that his name is John, the cold war historian type of guy. He's also a CIA guy. The reason that his book is also gives you two, it gives you two sides of the same coin. Like so you got the left side with Paul Williams is more More of a leftist and got the fake neocon right wing CIA guy. But when you read both the books together, like they pretty much admit stuff which is very useful.

[Host]

You're cutting out just a little. I'm not sure if it's me or if it's on your end, but

[Jay Dyer]

how about now? Is that better?

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah. I kind of picked up on that a little bit about Paul Williams because he's very critical about like the right wing militias and stuff which oddly enough that's like what all the trad cats kind of think of like that as like a based part of it. Like I had one guy when I posted about Gladio on Twitter, he was like, yeah, what's wrong with that? Like that sounds based to me. Like they literally, it's like some of the copes are funny, but I mean this, this I thought was probably like the best apologetic against Vatican ii to be honest. Like it's really damning. And even Paul Williams in the intro mentions that, you know, like what, towards the end he's kind of like, you may be wondering what my status is as a Roman Catholic. And he said something like after researching this stuff, it's, it's very difficult to remain Roman Catholic after you confront this truth.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, I remember him saying that. Exactly. I didn't know any of this stuff when I was a trad cat, obviously. What's interesting is that when you're a trad cat you do get into the conspiracy realm. And so you start to read about the Masons subverting the church and Zionists subverting the church and all that. All of which is definitely true. But you don't get this other further angle that the CIA and the Vatican and organized crime have been, you know, inextricably linked for a really good, really good while. And that's just a whole nother angle that I think all the trad cats miss. You know, the Wim Hof book is really good for this as well, showing pretty much the subversion of the Catholic Church at an institutional level for Americanism during the Cold war with the CIA's doctrine of warfare project. So I think the Kaler book, the Ganzer book, the Williams book and Wim Hof's book all coalesce really well in terms of giving a real picture into how the power structure in the west works, especially the religious infiltration of subversion.

[Host]

Yeah. And there's, I mean, I think it's maybe towards the end, I forget where he mentions it, but how Gladio is An ongoing operation. Like we're not just reading about something that happened in the 1960s, 1970s. This is an ongoing thing. And we just saw even last week. I'll share the screen here. We just saw this last week that the. The new Vatican bank chief Sparks Illuminati takeover claims deep state taking over. Taking over the Catholic Church. As if it's just happening now. But yeah, like, so this was, you know, at the center of. Of Gladio is the Vatican bank. You know, so this is something that still today they, you know, they have a new. What is it? A new CEO, this guy here who's a Rothschilds Rothschild, you know, stooge.

[Jay Dyer]

So yeah, they just put a Rothschild guy in at the Vatican bank. But that's not surprising because that Rothschild since the 1830s have been the official papal bankers. So this is par for the course. It's interesting when you see the GANU or whatever his name is, this, you know, trad. Ish bishop guy that always kind of pops up and says, you know, Covid is a conspiracy and this and that. Which is. Which is true. I agree with all that. But it's like this has been going on for a while, dog. This isn't happen. And, you know, what exactly does that mean for, you know, for Vatican One's teaching about, you know, the inability of the Papacy to fall away supposedly? Why are. If this is, you know, the infallible charism Church, why is it so bound up with what the globalist elites in the west want? You know what I mean?

[Host]

Yeah, I mean the Vatican bank kind of. I think Williams even said this, that the Vatican bank served as like the perfect channel to funnel all these funds through.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah.

[Host]

All the dirty money that they were. Because it's like, it's out of. It's out of any jurisdiction. They're under their own authority. I mean this is like the pro. It's kind of the whole thing is exposing the problem of centralization. So you have, you know, the Vatican bank which has no accountability, no oversight, it's just the Pope and. And then what happens when the Pope's in on it? Like the Pope knows about all this dirty money coming through. So yeah, I definitely want to get into that a little bit like, because I. There was a lot about JP2 that was, I think very damning. And you know, I was just reading the part about the. His assassination attempt and wondering maybe, I don't know if you know anything about this, but what was that? The whole reason they put glass on the Popemobile.

[Jay Dyer]

I didn't actually know that, but I wouldn't be surprised.

[Host]

Yeah. Because he was in a jeep and it was just an open top, like there was nothing. I mean that's why they were able to get to him.

[Jay Dyer]

I mean that seems plausible. But you know, the Vatican, by the way, the level of hypocrisy that really bugs me is, you know, they have a tendency to be anti gun and yet the, the Papacy has like a massive amount of secret service. Yeah. Anyway, that's a side note but I mean. Yeah, there's another interesting story that ties into this that just popped up yesterday. We covered it on last night's live stream. I didn't know about this. Somebody hit me to it. But apparently Cardinal Christoph, who came to the US a couple months ago, was allegedly threatened by the Pentagon and the American power structure because of Pope Leo's statements against the war. Now I'm not a fan of Leo at all, but it's interesting that his, he has made the critical of the war statements. And supposedly the Pentagon said, guys, remember the Avignon Papacy when you were ruled by French kings? Right. And supposedly they said you're in that same situation where we rule you. So yeah, so allegedly this could have been exaggerated. Who knows if it's true, but allegedly. Yeah, the, the Vatican was threatened or intimidated by the Pentagon.

[Host]

Yeah, this guy here, I've got him pulled up. Pierre, is this, is this him?

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, I think that's.

[Host]

Yeah, this was something else. I don't know why this came up.

[Jay Dyer]

If you type in Colonel Christoph CR C H R S T O F E and then like threaten or Pentagon come up in the news, it's just a, it's just a bizarre story. I'm not really sure but it does show this kind of like, you know, collusion between these entities.

[Host]

I don't know if I'm spelling that right, but I'll see. Yeah, this keeps coming up. Oh, here, here we go. Is this it? Christopher, Christopher Pierre. No, this is the same thing, isn't it?

[Jay Dyer]

Cardinal Christoph, who is.

[Host]

Oh, here, yeah, Cardinal Pierre Christoph.

[Jay Dyer]

Yep.

[Host]

Wow. Yeah, I mean this is like so. And this is the third story I've seen in the past three weeks that relates to gladio. There's also. I just had it pulled up. There's this here. I mean this is kind of like it's, it's not directly. I know, it's like, you know, if you didn't understand the Gladio operation, you wouldn't really make that connection here. But you've got, you know, is the 22 French Freemasons that were charged with murder in a Masonic lodge accused of running hit squad. So that's where the Gladio part comes in.

[Jay Dyer]

It's funny you said that because I just went on several podcasts in the last week after this news story popped up and of course everybody brought that up. And the first thing I said is this is very reminiscent of Gladiati. I wouldn't be surprised if the in one of the individuals involved in the story was former French intelligence. And I talked to some other people who are really well educated with intelligence type backgrounds and they said, yeah, they thought that, yeah, this is probably an older network of French assassination squads that exist. They're also tied in with the Mossad. That was this person's assessment of it. And if you've ever seen that movie Assassination Bureau from the 1960s, it's kind of a veiled reference to this so called international hit squad based out of France, but it's also kind of a Mossad thing. So I wouldn't be surprised if that's what's going on. Post people keep going, even when life gets busy.

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[Jay Dyer]

So essentially it kind of evolves out of the post World War II era plans that the Allies had in terms of how to take over a lot of former Axis intelligence networks like the Galen Org and so forth, and then turn those to a means of funding the operations that would be kind of off the books. Right. So prior to Gladio, there was this alliance that was made between organized crime and the CIA through different figures like Cord Meyer, Bill Donovan and others. The idea was that, and this even goes back to post World War I, the mafia could be kind of alliance that the CIA could utilize in the OSS before that, first of all for the trafficking of drugs. And then they realized that it's a hugely profitable Enterprise. But for a lot of intelligence operations or foreign black ops type stuff, they have to have funding that's off the books. So this is what led the CIA, through people like Cord Meier, to come up with the idea, well, why don't we fund these operations through drug trade? This is what linked them up with the Vatican Bank. And when they linked up with the Vatican bank and Pope Pius xii, they made a deal whereby the CIA kind of sent a bunch of money to the Vatican to help bail it out, fund a lot of its debts and to also promote the Christian Democrat Party candidates so that the communists didn't win in those elections in the 1950s and 60s. But this formed this kind of dark backdoor alliance with the Vatican. And then these same kind of CIA operatives hatched the idea to set up stay behind networks which would be essentially highly trained terror cells. And they specialized in sabotage, public assassination, air attacks, bombings, et cetera. And for a long time people didn't know the name of this operation. There was a book written by one of these. I think it's the guy that wrote the God's Bankers book that came out in the, in the early 80s or late 80s, early 90s. I forget exactly when the date is. He talked about the bombing being part of this Gladio stuff, but he named Gladio yet. So Gladio gets eventually exposed in the Italian media in the early 1990s and a bunch of high level politicians and so forth, their names were all leaked. A lot of Masonic lodges and their memberships are leaked via the P2 Lodge, which is a grand Orient fascist, fascist affinity having lodge. This is where Gladio was recruited from. And so what happened according to Williams basically is just that Kissinger was really running Gladio through this guy named Licio Gelli and a guy named Michel Sendona. Mikhail Sindona is the organized crime figure who's tying the organized crime mafia side of things into Gladio. And then Liccio Galli is the high level freemason guy who's running gladio through the P2 lodges and also having Epstein style parties which are called bunga bunga parties, if you remember. That was. Yeah, yeah, it was in the news a while back with Berlusconi. Well, those are the parties that you get invited to, kind of like Epstein to get compromised. And so these, these parties have been successful back in the 1960s and 70s and compromised most of the Italian members of state and the important ones and cardinals. So when this all came out, it turns out Gladio was a much broader operation to supposedly stave off a Soviet invasion should Stalin intend to invade the European Union? Or at least that was the auspices under which Gladio existed. But I think some people, especially, you know, people like Williams and others can they, they theorize that it was a much more elaborate, much more international and much more. Because it ties into the, you know, Iran Contra bcci. All of these banks are essentially connected to the Vatican bank and the funding of Gladio. And you have a lot of the same people that train the terrorists and the, the terror camps. People both with Al Qaeda and with the School of the Americas in Iran Contra. And then they are flown over to Turkey to train the Turkish MIT intelligence structure all comes out of the same crew. So basically it's like the CIA is kind of using a template in these different countries. Whether it's Al Qaeda or whether it's the Contras or whether it's the Gladio operatives in Italy, there's a sort of a template where they train people to, to engage in these kinds of operations. So that's essentially what Gladio is. We don't know exactly how many terror operations were directly connected to Gladio, but presumably quite a few at least the Bologna bombing and others.

[Host]

Yeah, he, Williams lists a bunch of the false flag attacks that were attributed to Gladio in one of the. I forget which chapter, but it's a good like 12 of them at least that he lists. That'll happen within like a five year span.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. I don't have the book on my on hand, but that sounds right.

[Host]

Yeah. And then you know, the, the, the stuff I think that you know and you guys could jump in. We got a bunch of people here, so don't feel like this is just me and, and Jay yapping, but you know, you can feel free to jump in and ask any questions. But as far as like our first meeting that we had where we covered the first half, it seemed like a lot of the interest was in the Vatican side obviously because that's super incriminating to.

[Jay Dyer]

Right.

[Host]

The trad cats. So you know the stuff about JP2, his involvement, you know, because there's this, there's this notion that the, that the, that the Vatican or the Catholic Church has been always anti masonry and they've taken this strong anti Masonry stance. Williams mentions that and then goes on to discuss how on the other hand the, the pa. The papacy kind of turned a blind eye to it.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah.

[Host]

And so this was all going on. They had knowledge of it and you know, and this is something that we just saw what was his name? Cardinal. The guy that just got, he got excommunicated a couple years ago. That based cardinal that was like exposing the Masonic infiltration. What was his name?

[Jay Dyer]

Archbishop Began.

[Host]

It's a gano. Yeah, yeah. Like he. So I mean, we know this stuff even from him. If you've listened to Vigano's speeches on this stuff, it's like, whoa, like, what's going on here? He's just describing Gladio. Like he was just basically describing that this is all going on still.

[Jay Dyer]

Right.

[Host]

And then oddly enough, he gets excommunicated. But yeah, so like, this is a, you know, an ongoing thing and the JP2's involvement was really interesting. There's a, you know, there was a, a gay op with this jelly who was, or Gelly rather, who supposedly had a photo of, uh, JP2, uh, chilling naked by the pool, like just, just vibing with, uh, you know, his birthday suit. And you know, I don't know how true that is. I think I posted something about all these trad cats were like, oh, well, you, you believe a freemason, like that guy was a degenerate. Well, I mean, maybe it's true, I don't know. But it's, it's on record that that's what they had.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, you know, this is where the, the book that I mentioned from Kaler comes into play here. Because what's funny is that he's an apologist for John Paul II in the, in the CIA, you know, in the Cold War. He's a big neocon guy. I think he's Roman Catholic. And in his book on the KGB and the Vatican and the Cold War, he argues that the, the CIA actually won the Cold War, at least optically and propaganda wise through John Paul ii. And he says because there was such a close collaboration between John Paul and the CIA, they were able to do all kinds of things like shoot those photo ops that were very powerful. They made that alliance with Lech Valesa and solidarity with the CIA through John Paul ii and a lot of the Polish, you know, Catholic sentiment in terms of Catholicism was, was utilized by the CIA. And then of course, when they got the attempted assassination by Ali, aka, who was connected to the Turkish mit, which comes out of the organized crime structure, the Gray Wolves, it was a CIA that trained the Turkish mit. So Will. So I think Ganzer argues that in his chapter on Gladio that Aliyadka might have actually been a CIA op to make John Paul II into a kind of Cold War martyr. Attempted assassination. Right. And then Kaler Argues the exact opposite because he's working for the CIA. But the great part about Kaler's book is like, yeah, absolutely, the CIA was latched to the hip of the Vatican throughout the Cold War, and we're absolutely proud of it. Now let's take that a step further. There's nothing like the American Express Platinum card. Find out your welcome offer after you apply, which could be as high as 175,000 points. Learn more and find out your [e-mail] explorer Platinum terms apply. With the American Express Platinum card, I can unlock experiences like no other. Since I'm always booking my next trip. I love that I can earn points on travel. Plus I get a resi benefit. So, you know, I'm hitting the restaurants everyone's talking about.

[Host]

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For experiences like no other. There's nothing like platinum. Learn [e-mail] Explore Platinum Terms apply In Gordon Thomas's excellent forgotten, overlooked book on the Mossad. He's a journalist, historian guy. He's not like a tinfoil hat dude. He points out that the, in the 1980s, Mossad wanted recognition from the Vatican for the state of Israel. The Vatican had never done that. And then they tried to bug the Vatican under John Paul ii. That was discovered. Now, you would think if you tried to bug the Vatican, like, you might get booted out of there. But what happens? Lo and behold, John Paul II visits the synagogues, prays in the synagogues. And I think it's in the early 1990s that under John Paul II, the Vatican recognizes the state of Israel. So isn't that interesting that so many things happen and change in a huge pivot, you know, John Paul ii. So he's not just this cold war optics here. But, you know, if the Mossad is bugging the Vatican and then like, he recognizes Israel not too long after that and goes and prays in the synagogue.

[Host]

Yeah. And he was, he was the first. He. Wasn't he the first pope to do that, like to go and kiss the.

[Jay Dyer]

Yes.

[Host]

The Wailing Wall. And then there was just a succession after that. Every single pope after has done it. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. There's a whole part in the, in the book about the, the, the Vatican, like all these cardinals being bugged and how they. It was, I think it was JP2 who set up this new vetting process so that he was, he was able to. I, I think if I'm getting That. Right. I. I'm. I'm just this off the top of my head, there was some mention of like not knowledge by JP2 of the. The bugging or maybe it was this. His successor. Was that John. John Paul the first was his successor. Right. The one that was allegedly poisoned.

[Jay Dyer]

Succeeds Paul vi.

[Host]

Paul the. Yeah, that's right.

[Jay Dyer]

John Paul the second successor is Benedict, who is the.

[Host]

There was a. Unless I'm getting the timeline wrong, there was a Pope that they. That Williams is writing about who was. Was like in the. He was in papal chair for like six months or something.

[Jay Dyer]

You're talking about John Paul the First and he was. Yeah, he was in the. The throne of Peter for 33 days and.

[Host]

Yeah, 33. Yeah. Not a suspicious number.

[Jay Dyer]

Killed. Killed by the P2.

[Host]

Yeah. Right. Yeah, they. Yeah, they. They had a very. It was a. It was like a really suspicious autopsy.

[Jay Dyer]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, the. Allegedly that. The thinking is that he was poisoned, but then the autopsy was.

[Host]

You.

[Jay Dyer]

You. They like took away the body before there could be an autopsy. Which is kind of what happened with Charlie Kirk. And you know, quite a few high profile people have had that happen.

[Host]

Yeah. Payload in the chat is talking about the plot of Godfather 3. Yeah, yeah, this stuff. Yeah, this is even.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, the screenplay. They mentioned the P2, huh?

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of that in the M.O. i mean, I think he talks about that too. How you had. Was it. Was it Gelly or. I forget who it was. Who had these connections to. I think it was Paramount Studios who, Who produced the Godfather movies. I'm trying to go through my notes here and see which guy it was.

[Jay Dyer]

I don't remember off top of my head.

[Host]

Yeah, maybe it might have even been Helliwell. But yeah, one of the CIA guys, he had. He was like fronting money to the, to Paramount Pictures or something like that who's, you know, had financial interest or something. And they were consulting him for the Godfather movies. So a lot of that stuff in those movies are based on real events that happen in Operation Gladio. I think even Goodfellas too. Yeah, like there's stuff about like the prison scene, I think that was. Wasn't that like Lucky Luciano's prison experience? Basically,

[Jay Dyer]

yes. The both of those movies are composites and yeah, I've looked into. We read the Godfather recently for a book club that I was doing with, quite frankly. And after having read the Gladio texts. Yeah, it definitely like shed a whole whole new light on what's going on the Godfather. And it's absolutely about all that same stuff. Right. So it really reveals quite a bit. I mean, even reveals Hollywood pedophilia type stuff because you don't notice that when you are watching a movie. But it's actually in the novel pretty explicitly that the Hollywood are doing that. But yeah, I think there's oblique references to Gladio in there for sure. But that goes back to what's, as you mentioned, what's in the first part of the William Sex, which is the alliance between organized crime and the C&OSS and CIA and then that it's called Operation Underworld. So it's a well known thing. But then that kind of evolves into Gladio eventually because they're recruiting out of these Masonic lodges and training them through the CIA and they're also recruiting organized crime figures as well.

[Host]

Yeah, and it's even in the first couple chapters. It's. It's really kind of about the founding of the CIA itself and how it, it kind of started out as like this cooperation between, I think it was. It P2 and the. And. And the Sicilian mob. And they, you know, it was. It started out as the oss.

[Jay Dyer]

Yes.

[Host]

You had, you know, Alan Dulas, who's a major central figure to all this, who I, I never heard of before I even read this. It's interesting how influential this guy was. And he's like virtually unknown. Third. Another 33rd degree Mason.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, he was the head of the CIA and he was a major figure helping to establish the ca. And we're doing his. He worked. He was also in the cfr. We're doing a book called Old Boys right now, which is the history of the OSS and CIA on my channel. And we just finished up the entire Dulles section. So he's a major player right before Bill Donovan. So you kind of have these phases of the OSS and CIA. You have the Dulles early phase and then you have the transition phase with Donovan. Then it becomes a CIA and then you get Frank Wisner and you get William Colby and those characters. But up into the 1980s you get this era of William Casey and he set up this kind of Roman Catholic element within the CIA at that time under Reagan. And that's why there was this huge neocon tradcat alliance going on with, with John Paul ii. And it was William Casey that was the real figure that made these super close alliances with John Paul ii. In fact, in Gordon Thomas's book, he says that John Paul II was meeting with William Casey like all the time. But to be fair, I mean, I think William says that Paul VI was meeting with Kissinger all the time. So, you know, this is what's really going on, and that's who's really running the show. But, yeah, Alan Dawson is a major figure. You know, he's really the brainchild of the Cold War.

[Host]

Yeah. It's kind of the way that he lays it out. It's hard to tell, like, kind of who's orchestrated. Like, if there is even one figure or one kind of top of the hierarchy, who's behind everything. Kissinger, certainly. I would say it was like the most powerful figure, I think, that was involved in Claudio.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. Yeah. I think he's. I mean, I don't mean to oversimplify it, but he speaks of it. He'll. He actually draws. Okay. Exactly where it is in there. But Williams draws out this sort of inverted. Like, it's like a pyramid and then a pyramid on top of a pyramid. Kind of the one on top's inverted, and it's intended to describe the sort of structure that Kissinger had set up to run shadow government in. In Italy. And so it was really done through Licio jelly. So he was telling Licio jelly what to do, and then Leecho Geli was basically running all the compromise cardinals and politicians.

[Host]

Yeah. It's funny that Gully's Wikipedia. He's wearing the. Let me put it up here. He's like, wearing the. The Gmail apron. Like, he's. He's in his Masonic garb in his Wikipedia entry. Like, there's no question about it.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. And keep in mind, this was all the way up into Sylvia Berlusconi area too. Right. Who was also famously, publicly, publicly a member of P2 Lodge.

[Host]

Yeah, that's right. Yep. Does anyone. I. I want to kind of open it up here if anyone wants to jump in. I don't want to make you guys feel like you're not part of this. So, you know, this is book club. So if you guys. If anyone had comments or questions or anything, you want to jump in with anything. Because I know we only covered the first half of the book, so there was quite a bit that we didn't even cover yet. So if you wanted to share any comments. If not, we'll keep it rolling.

[Jay Dyer]

The point about the Rockefellers bailing out the Vatican bank when it went bankrupt, that part's pretty crazy.

[Host]

Oh, yeah, Yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

I can't remember if that's the first time. And also the other thing that was crazy was the intricacy of the structure of the shell companies and the shell Banks and fronts like they were just insane and like you know, organized crime, PhD level insanity of how they structure these scams.

[Host]

Yeah. It was 200 million in funding came from Rockefeller and Mellon foundations. So they had provided 200 million in seed capital. It was discovered in the mind of Colonel Paul Helliwell in the drug markets of urban America. Yeah, I mean we didn't even touch on that. How it's all. They were funneling all the. This or trafficking all of this heroin through all the black jazz clubs in Harlem.

[Jay Dyer]

Right.

[Host]

That was the literally the founding like the, the first op of the CIA was to do that to basically.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, you meant. Yeah, you know, where there's a specific point when the Vatican bank goes bankrupt and then the Rockefellers help bail that out. Which is. Which is wild.

[Host]

Yeah. Was that. I'm trying to find where that is. I thought that's what it was. But let me see. Rockefeller, David Rockefeller. Yeah. His bank. His bank absorbed hundreds of millions in Claudio related losses for the cause shareholder and yeah. Paribus transcontinental. I can't find exactly where that is. I don't know if I took a

[Jay Dyer]

note on that for having to look when I went back to find that it is in there because I've looked for it twice and it's hard to find but I've found it twice.

[Host]

Yeah, he mentions a lot of stuff just like in passing and it's like whoa. Like he just like bombards you with all this crazy stuff. It's almost like every sentence is. Is like another nail in the coffin.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, yeah, go ahead. Feel free to open it up if anybody wants to chat.

[Host]

Yeah, don't be shy guys. I mean I don't know if it. Maybe you're having audio issues if you're. If you're joined here, but if not you can pop questions into the chat. And we're over on substack too, so if you guys tuned in on substack want to mention anything. Paul, the payload says Paul the six was a Freemason.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, it does seem like there's a good bit of evidence to suggest that. I remember thinking, I've always thought that since I was a trad cat and the close alliance that all of these texts point out between him and the CIA also, also I think points in that direction.

[Host]

So how do you like what is. What is the. To your knowledge what's like the trad cat like cope of that like that there was Masonic infiltration. Like did they even confront that at all or they just point to like how The Catholic Church has always been anti Freemason.

[Jay Dyer]

I think there's a spectrum. Like I just, I noticed the other day, or actually maybe today, like Tim Gordon's about to do a stream admitting that he thinks Paul VI was a Freemason. So it's a spectrum. I mean, you know, the set of a contest. Love this stuff because they think it really kind of backs up the, the fact that the, the Vatican is no longer valid, the seat's vacant. You know, Tradcast and the sspx, they will admit all this, but then they're just kind of like they're gonna say, yeah, but they're still Popes. We're not bound by any of their teachings, even though they're still popes.

[Host]

Well, what, what's the response to that? Because it does seem like this all really did start with Vatican ii. Have you, have you found anything that was like that? This started developing actually prior to that, like when the, when the set of a contest, for example, like when they think that it was still legitimate papacy.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, so even the trad cats will admit that there was this famous case of Cardinal Rampola who was an high level member of the OTO and Freemason and he was almost elected Pope. But Rome Catholicism has this weird thing where they have a Austro Hungarian emperor can veto. He has this power to veto an election. And there's this story that he vetoed Rampola because he knew that he was a Mason. So in the, in the trad cat lore, yes, they will admit that the Alta Vendita, which was discovered around that same time, I want to say around the time of Leo XIII. Like he had that published. This is late 1800s. Right. He had that published to say, hey look, the, you know, Grand Orient Masons are trying to infiltrate and take over the Papacy. The Alta Vendita documents claim that their goal is to not destroy the Papacy, but to use it to teach freemasonic values. I think you could actually argue that that probably is the case. Right. I mean Vatican II pretty much teaches what the Alta Vendita documents claim they want to do. But that would, yes, that would actually be a Masonic attempt at infiltration in the late 1800s.

[Host]

Yeah. Nodes here says that their, their own version of the Masons is just as corrupt. The Knights of Columbus.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, and the Knights of Columbus who you know, for a long time had a really close alliance with the CIA. And as Williams notes, and by the way, not just Williams, I mean even Kaler, who's an apologist for all this is like, yeah, of Course, Opus Day was a, you know, CIA conduit. It was Opus dei. This. This took all the money and funded lack of Alessa's solidarity movement to help win the Cold War.

[Host]

Yeah. And you. You also had the Knights of Malta who was behind the assassination of. Assassination attempt of JP2.

[Jay Dyer]

The Knights of Malta.

[Host]

Yeah. I believe he's. He was saying in the book it was the night the Knights of Malta. It wasn't. It was a. Obviously it was. It was a Turk who, you know, pulled the trigger. But I think he was mentioning something about the. Unless I'm getting the name wrong, the nights it was the Knights of something. But I thought it was Malta.

[Jay Dyer]

It could be. I don't really. Like you said, there's a lot of. Yeah, a lot of notes in there, but.

[Host]

Yeah, I think he was mentioning something about the Knights of Malta and their involvement with the assassination. So it's like kind of an inside job type thing.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, well, that's what I was saying earlier, that the. The Turkish MIT that was set up by the CIA is what he. He argues. The Ganzer argues that's who had John Paul II attempted assassination. Right. Hit. But I didn't remember what William said, but that would line up with what Ganzer art is.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

Because. Nice. CIA connected.

[Host]

Yeah. Node says Knights of Malta is Masonic as well. Yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. I think the CIA or the. The Roman Catholics, they tried to set up at different points these kind of Catholic versions of that kind of stuff to supposedly combat Freemasonry. But I think that's pretty much all failed because, you know, the Vatican 2 teaching is really indistinguishable from Freemasonry, so. Yeah, didn't do any good.

[Host]

Laurentian says the Godfather and several other movies touch on the drug trade in the Mafia. Yeah, We. We touched on it a little earlier. They didn't get into the clandestine operations, though. Yeah, I mean, it was like I was saying Goodfellas, too. Towards the end, what happens with Henry Hill, you know, he gets involved in trafficking cocaine. Of course, they have in the movie, I forget his name that, you know, the boss. The crime boss of the. You know, in Goodfellas, he kind of turns his back on Henry Hill because of that, but. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah. But, you know, the Gladio tells a different story. If you look at the Sicilian, the Sicilians were very active in it. Like, they didn't have, like, this principled stance against drugs. They, you know, they were. Those seemed to be their primary thing they were doing.

[Jay Dyer]

You're absolutely right. And they were doing that even after World War I. Already doing that.

[Host]

Yeah. There it was interesting how they're, they're talking about how, like the Sicilians didn't know how to cut up cocaine. Like they didn't know how to actually, you know, produce the cocaine. So they had to get all these, forget what they probably Colombians or something. I wonder if this even ties in with Pablo Escobar. I didn't read anything about him in particular, but do you know anything about

[Jay Dyer]

that, about that whole structure in that region? So, But I wouldn't be surprised because usually you find out all these things are connected.

[Host]

Yeah,

[Jay Dyer]

sure, We did. I think it was brought up in the first interview and I can't remember if that was my channel or his channel, but he essentially confirmed that. Yeah, that was all pretty much true, but I don't remember which interview it was. We did about six or seven podcasts. He also said that he thinks that the organized crime had a, had a role and that you, he always heard the whispers that it was the Mafia and the CIA that took out Marilyn Monroe too. Yeah. And he said the reason for that was because she had slept with all of these, you know, high profile people. She had a, a pill problem and they thought that she might actually spill the beans on too many things. So. No, no, she was probably a honey pot.

[Host]

She was like the first E girl of the modern period.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, exactly. I don't remember if Sammy says he thinks she was a honey pot, but I, I, I think she was. I mean, she was sleeping with Momo, head of the Chicago Mafia, Sam Giancana. She was sleeping with RFK and jfk.

[Host]

So huge liability who both got whacked.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, exactly.

[Host]

Laurentian says that it was the French, French and Marcelis who produce or process the drugs. And then they had union issues and they had to overcome to bomb Borneo. Yeah. So Laurentian asked, was the Vietnam War a cover for Operation Gladio?

[Jay Dyer]

That's a good question. We covered some Vietnam War books on my channel. We covered Douglas Valentine's book Phoenix program. And he argues that the Phoenix program was essentially an experiment in a lot of things. Number one, training future terrorists and perfecting the art of training terrorists. So in that regard it would be the same people. According the last chapter in Douglas Valentine's book is all the people that were running Vietnam went on to be the people that founded Homeland Security and that whole, you know, apparatus. So I would say that's probably a likely connection.

[Host]

Node says Monroe was also called the first presidential model. MK model and usually they kill them off before 30. She was about to turn 36. Oh, yeah. That's interesting, the age part. Yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, I think. Yeah. At a certain point you're, you're a liability, so you're better off, you know, taken care of.

[Host]

I'm surprised it wasn't 27, which wasn't a 27 club.

[Jay Dyer]

Ugly.

[Host]

Yeah, I thought, I mean, you mentioned like the 33 like that. I thought that was interesting. I, I, like, I, I wouldn't expect Paul Williams to kind of like skitso out on like the, on the Masonic numerology, but thought it was interesting how the, how John Paul one was, you know, 33 days on the papal throne, like that's, that's got to be significant, especially considering the Masonic hit job on him.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. I think it's, it's possible, you know, given that a lot of those people are into this kind of stuff, so. But not a proof. But it's very, very possible.

[Host]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know that you kind of refer to this as an academic text. I know it's not like an officially like, you know, academic published text, but I, I know what you mean by that because it's because of the depth of research. I mean, it's, there's like a hundred pages of footnotes.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, the thing. Reason I said that's because we just read on my channel a few months ago Paul Williams's other book about Al Qaeda because he's, he was a FBI consultant for a good while on organized crime and Al Qaeda, so. And I'm not taking anything like, you know, I'm not just taking his word for it because, oh, well, he's. Let's not like the FBI can't lie. But I think it ends a little, it adds a little bit of an air of establishment credibility, if you, you want to say. Because if he's, you know, consulting with the FBI, obviously he's not viewed as a conspiracy theorist. So he's useful, you know, for like proving things to normies.

[Host]

Yeah. And it's not like there's a whole body of academic research on this particular thing. I mean, it's like that with a lot of these things, you know, it's like some of the more most credible researchers, I think, you know, what comes to mind is Alison Weir, who did, who wrote the book against our better judgment on the Good point. Yeah. The history of America's involvement with the establishment of the Zionist state. And a lot of that, like a lot of her footnotes are similar to Williams like they're, you know, kind of like collections of websites and stuff like that. Because there. Yeah, there's no. What's the academic. Like, what kind of body of academic work are you pulling from for this? It's just a bunch of like, you're citing what these people are saying, and it's like wherever you can find those sources, that's what you're citing.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, also, the reason that the Ganzer text is useful is that it's an academic text, so like an academic press. So I think he adds credibility to it too. I want to say that that's. It's his. It looks like a PhD thesis. So I think Ganzer did his PhD thesis on. Glad.

[Host]

Does anyone else have any comments? Oh, this node says 100% a liability. Oh, I guess he's talking about Monroe. Plus, the brain undergoes changes after 30 and programming can break down. Memories start resurfacing.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, I think we saw that with Britney Spears because I, I was, I was kind of skeptical initially, but as time has gone by, I mean, with Britney, I think she probably is some kind of MK Ultra program. Oh yeah, because she had. You remember that Barbara Walters thing where she shifts into a childlike Persona.

[Host]

Yeah, she. I mean, it was similar to like what we, we found out about like Kanye. Like the, you know, these guys all have controllers that.

[Jay Dyer]

Yes. Are.

[Host]

Are giving them drugs and stuff at an early age. Like, they're essentially mkultra ing them as their control, as their handlers. Justin Bieber, probably same deal.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah.

[Host]

Some of them come out a little less damaged than others, but I would imagine that's like the normative case for a lot of these, like, child stars. I. I think of also Amanda Bynes.

[Jay Dyer]

Exactly.

[Host]

Who's like, she literally looks like a clown now. Like she turned herself into a clown. Like she did that to herself. Yeah. But it's like kind of she. It was whoever did that to her did it kind of like even though she did it. Like, that's like the classic MK Ultra thing where it's like you. You're acting alone, but also not really because you were conditioned.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. And again, if you know, when you consider what all these people are up to, otherwise all the other things are up to. Like, why would they be beyond trying to program, you know. Yeah, Hollywood. Like, obviously they're going to be if that's. They're not beyond doing that. We know that Operation Midnight Climax. Right. The CIA was using the mafias, whorehouses to dose with LSD just to see what it would do.

[Host]

Well, and we even saw confirmation about the funneling money into the Vatican bank through the Epstein files.

[Jay Dyer]

Exactly. Yeah. I covered that heavily because I thought it was really revelatory. And it was fascinating to me that, you know, he was explaining that to. What's that guy's name? Larry Summers, the banker from the Clinton era. Like, he's explaining works to this, like, economics dude. Like, you don't know how the. Like, I would think you would know this, but apparently he had no idea how the Vatican bank played into, you know, global politics.

[Host]

Yeah. And it's funny, because the way Epstein was explaining the usefulness of the Vatican bank was almost how Paul Williams describes how it was a perfect channel for all the dirty money from Gladio.

[Jay Dyer]

Exactly. And did you that. That in the Bannon interview? Did you see that?

[Host]

Oh, yeah. Where he's talking about the. His. He's boasting about his membership in the Trilateral Commission one. Yeah. Think it was his last interview, right?

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. And the first 30 minutes, he's, like, explaining fractional reserve banking to Bannon. I'm like, does Bannon not know what that is? Is he playing dumb? What fraction was their banking?

[Host]

They had some interesting. I. I found his exchanges with Bannon were the most interesting.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah.

[Host]

Because they were very candid in how they talked. Like, that was where you saw kind of the most like, esoteric references. Like, they're talking about alchemy and stuff and Isaac Newton and science and all that.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. He was really close to admitting that he's into Kabbalism.

[Host]

Yeah. Yep. Well, he kind of did. I mean, he was. He had these correspondences with all these kabbalistic rabbis. So, you know, they. I think. I know that you were talking about that a lot, about how he was a kind of like a crypto kabbalist. I mean, we've got. We've got confirmation on that, that he had multiple rabbis he was talking to. There was another. I forget his name. There was some technocrat that he was the guy that was building the robo. Epstein. That guy. He was teaching. He was also, you know, they were. They were talking about Kabbalah in a way that they both knew it. Like, there was. There was a. A presupposing of these concepts that they were just openly talking about it.

[Jay Dyer]

And also, it does look like that one picture, you know, Epstein had a. A set of the Talmud behind him. So that. That suggest the same thing.

[Host]

Yeah. People were, like, saying that that's not what it was, but it's like, what else would that be? What else has 33 volumes. And it's like you could find. I was able to find a picture of that exact volume too. Like, I don't understand what else it would be. But you know, people were like, oh, it was fake. It was like a fake facade like that he just filled up on his bookshelf like with this fake thing, like, I don't know what, like maybe.

[Jay Dyer]

What's more likely. More likely that it probably is.

[Host]

Yeah, that's, that's what I look at. It's like. Well, we, we know now that it's. That's probably the case, I guess because they, they're like, they look at him as like, you know, oh, he wasn't religious or whatever, but. Well, he. Yeah, he knew more than he let on. You know, he was a. He was a smart guy.

[Jay Dyer]

Did you see his book list that came out? What, the books?

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, I covered that. Yeah, he was into all the tantric sex stuff. Yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

I think he was interested in, you know, Crowley and sex magic, so.

[Host]

Well, yeah, one of the books was written by a literal Crowley and he was one of the. He was. I forget the name of his publishing. He was a. He founded like a famous occult publishing company and he was a. Yeah, he was into Thelema and stuff. Like. Yeah, a lot of the tantric stuff was all Crowley and.

[Jay Dyer]

Yep. There was also a people. I didn't go deep into this, I didn't check it, but people were alleging that he was involved in some sort of like astrological society. Did you hear about that?

[Host]

Yeah, the Zodiac Club. Yeah, that's. I, I didn't even know that it. That existed. It's a hundred year old secret society.

[Jay Dyer]

I didn't either.

[Host]

Yeah, that it was, it was really interesting. They have 12 seats in this secret society. Each represents a zodiac, you know, a zodiac symbol.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah.

[Host]

And they're only. The seats are only occupied after one member dies.

[Jay Dyer]

Interesting.

[Host]

And. Yeah, and the first members, there was a bunch of bankers. Like there was a. I think J.P. morgan was in it. Yeah, there was a bunch of bankers in it and stuff. So. Yeah, I thought that was pretty interesting. And I was looking at the emails where that was mentioned and it's a little bit like there's not real clear confirmation that Epstein was actually in it because the exchange was someone else explaining the Zodiac Club to him. So I was kind of like, I'm not sure if this is like substantial evidence because why would they be explaining the Zodiac Club to him if he was in it? But someone knew, you know, someone in his circle knew about it. He was in other secret societies. There was a French one. I forget what it was called, but, you know, it's describing all these Enlightenment principles that they. They have. Like, that one is more confirming that he was actually in it because there was a email exchange where the one guy was asking. He was inquiring to Epstein about another. It was the CEO of. Or the CEOs. CEO of. I think it was Paramount or some film studio. His daughter. They were, like, inquiring about a membership for his daughter or something. So, like, that tells me he was in it. If they were asking him, you know, what do you think about this person as a member? But, yeah, the. The Zodiac Club, whether or not he was in it, I thought it was interesting that we learned about it.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, like, you're saying with the Bannon interview, you know, he references alchemy. He references. He says something like, all of reality is mathematics. That's a, you know, Gamatria type view. So.

[Host]

Yeah, he's. Yeah, he was actually talking about. I think it was with one of those Kabbalistic rabbis. He was talking about how there's. There's space between the letters.

[Jay Dyer]

Yes.

[Host]

He's talking about Hebrew letters and how there's, like, magical properties that happen in between the letters. So, like, he. He knew. He wasn't like, a. A novice of Kabbalah. Like, he actually knew some of the deep principles.

[Jay Dyer]

What was this? I may have missed this. Who were these rabbis? Was that in the emails or something or what?

[Host]

Yeah, I can find it. I have an article I did on this. I wouldn't remember their names off the top of my head.

[Jay Dyer]

No, I believe. Were they just, like. Were they rabbis or like, just normal?

[Host]

Yeah, because they were. Yeah. The one was Rabbi Hanan Balk. His name was. And so he's teaching him about the Zohar. So, you know, it's like, a little bit unclear how much knowledge he had, because you had a couple rabbis who were, like, teaching him as if he didn't know the stuff. And then you see stuff like, with, you know, when he's explaining it to other people that maybe he learned it later on. But then. Yeah, and then the Thomas Pritzker was from the family that first published the Zohar. The Pritz. The Pritzker edition of the Zohar that's, like, from the Pritzker family.

[Jay Dyer]

Is that the same ones that are running Chicago?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, wow. Yeah.

[Host]

The Hyatt Hotels. Yeah. There's the Hyatt Hotel's CEO who just stepped down. Like when the Epstein files came out.

[Jay Dyer]

Right?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

Huh. That's crazy.

[Host]

But yeah, a little. A little off topic, but that's all right, you know. Yeah, it does tie in. Yeah, that's true. It does. It's all the banking and the elites and this is all.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, if you remember the FTX collapse, I followed that and studied that pretty close. That was actually the same structure as gladio2. The way that Gladio's banking scams, when you get to that chapter, the way they have all the shell companies. It was the same structure as FTX too.

[Host]

Huh? Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah, that's right. That, that. Yeah. Interesting. That's. That's because they had. They were their own bank. They had no jurisdiction.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, but the way they had set up all the shell companies too. Like. Yeah, I asked a. I had a dinner with a dude who was a prosecutor for the US in the what's called the Brazilian Car wash scandal. And this was a really intricate organized crime set up where they had basically compromised the entire Brazilian government in the, in the 80s and 90s. You can look this up. It's a famous case. They even made like a Netflix series about it, the Car Wash Kennel. But it was an ingenious way that they basically had compromised the entire government. And I think that's exactly what was going on with, with Gladio and in Italy with P2. And then they did this. They run the same type of thing with the US So US was compromised because the, the sex cult stuff that you have, you know, Epstein doing is the same model as what William says Kissinger was running with the bunga bunga parties and Gladio in Italy.

[Host]

Wow. Okay. I think that. Let me see this comment here. I'm not sure on topic this is. If you have any bandwidth, please contemplate the Church of England and the mess it's in. Presently our King and his son appear cucked. The head of the Church is a woman. Yeah, I mean that's.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, actually the head of the Church of England has been a woman forever because the Queen was the head of the church.

[Host]

Yeah, true. Yeah. I'm considering Catholicism, but have attended a youth center that holds an Antiochian Orthodox Church. It's a proper pickle. I don't see how that would be a pickle at all. I mean, it's like. Listen to what we're talking about here. How can you contemplate the Catholic Church?

[Jay Dyer]

I was in the triquette world for 10 years, so I'm trying to save you a lot of Wasted time.

[Host]

Just read Operation Gladiator. Like, you don't even need to get into all the theological debates. You know, it's like you just read this exposes the primary problem of the Catholic Church and its centralization. I mean, this is like this kind of thing is you can't prevent it from happening. This is part of the nature of its ecclesiology of its structure, is that you have no, you know, you have. The hierarchy is there's the Pope and the Vatican at the top and then that's it. There's no, you know, there's nothing. If that gets corrupted, the whole rest of the institution is correct.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, it's a top down. That's the point.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah. So I would, I would, you know, the thing I can, yeah. Go back and listen to this, listen to all Jay's talks on this. Like I said, you don't even have to really, like, you can. You should get into the theological side. But, you know, this is a consequence of. Of or perhaps more of, like. Yeah, a consequence or outworking of Vatican 2. Kind of more of a chicken and egg type thing, probably.

[Jay Dyer]

And you don't get in. In, you know, in that realm. You don't get the freedom and the right to reject what the Papacy is doing. And this is the real delusion of the trad cat world is they think, oh, I can just kind of pick and choose what I want out of the Pope. Conservative, I'll follow it when he's not, I'll reject it. But you don't really get that. And Catholicism, you're not. That's not really what Vatican wants us. So it's just not. It's not where you want to go.

[Host]

Yeah. Can you. I heard you talk about that recently. I forget which exact thing it was about Vatican 2 that you were talking about. Maybe you can go into that a little.

[Jay Dyer]

What specifically?

[Host]

I'm trying to remember what it was, but I don't know. It was during one of your call shows. There's a guy, there's a. I think it was recently. There's a trad cat that called in and he was. He didn't really like, know what he was talking about, but he, you know, I think you were asking him like, have you ever read Vatican ii? And he was like, no. Or he's like, yeah, it was like a long time ago. You're like, it's only 15 pages. You haven't read it, like. And he, you know, you were talking about something about how, like what you were just saying it's like you can't, you can't pick and choose this stuff. You have to accept it wholesale.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. Long story short, you know, Vatican II says very clearly that. Excuse me, Vatican one says very clearly that the Pope is not just authoritative and his teachings are not just binding when it's quote, ex cathedral. This is the mistake that the trad cats all make. You're actually bound to everything that the Papacy teaches. Even when it's the, quote, ordinary normative teaching, you still have to follow it, even if it's not in, quote, infallible. Because they say that in the, in canon law, it says that even if it's not infallible, you still have to submit with docility, even if you disagree. So this idea that you can kind of have a, you know, pick and choose Catholicism is really just Protestantism. It's not true. No.

[Host]

There you go. So I don't know if anyone else has comments on. I know this is like, we did this at kind of an odd hour. We're usually doing it at a. Around 9pm but you know, if anyone's still tuned in and you want to make any comments or questions, just get them in soon and we'll, you know, we'll maybe wrap things up. I don't know if there's anything else.

[Jay Dyer]

I just. I got one thing, I guess. Would Gladio be like the blueprint?

[Host]

Like, were they kind of the blueprint

[Jay Dyer]

for how, like, I guess in the criminal underworld. And what we're seeing with Epstein is

[Host]

this like, kind of where it started

[Jay Dyer]

and it laid this blueprint down for all future generations of people who are like, in this field, like in this world. I feel like, do these types of activities. I think that it's even earlier than that because, you know, Gladio, it's not that different than in terms of the structure of like the sexual compromise. If you get into Robert Maxwell. I don't know about any Gladio connection with Maxwell, but Maxwell was recruited into this kind of stuff by the Rothschilds. And that's very telling because of the emails between Ariana de Rothschild and Jeffrey Epstein basically making that connection. Right. That he still works for them, he's their legate, their attache, just like he was with David Rockefeller. So I think the Epstein stuff really is a window into, oh, this has been going on for a long time. And it's not just the CIA and Gladio. I mean, it's Rothschilds and British intelligence doing the same thing as. Well. Look up Davel and the way the UK was compromising people with Elm Guest House. That Was a, an operation where they basically fitted out a whorehouse to compromise the politicians. You know, obviously they're a bunch of PDFs and gay dudes in the UK and worse. So it's like, it's a window into how the power structure does this. How they, how they compromise entire countries. Yeah, it seems like sexual espionage is

[Host]

really like you see that everywhere.

[Jay Dyer]

It always comes back to that. It's like like this main blackmail people that are healthy and powerful. Right. Like what's the first thing they're going to engage in? Well, they're gonna, you know, fulfill their, their sexual fantasy. So you know, what the intelligence agents do is they kind of profile people and they figure out okay this guy's into this. So you know, maybe he needs to meet, you know, somebody who's part of a cult that you know, is into this kind of weird stuff.

[Participant]

Plus didn't. Isn't Gladio itself German Nazi program that the US also picked up.

[Host]

Yeah, we even get into that part.

[Participant]

So yeah, the Wolverines and then they, they. Was it Wolverines or werewolves or something? And then they, they basically had a copy of that in all the different year the Gladios for Europe but they also had them in like Mexico and other places and as well as the U.S. you know, just stay behind networks also. Nice to jump on and listen to this. So thank you.

[Jay Dyer]

Same as the, as a Franklin cover up too. Franklin scandal, if you remember that one. Yep, yep.

[Participant]

Very, very well. Especially it's funny, a lot of people always forget that Thomas or Hunter S. Thompson was also tied up in Franklin, Bush was tied up in Franklin and Trump's dad as well was tied up in Franklin. Everyone forgets that. So and then never mind the fact that Trump was essentially raised under Roy cone. The whole blackmail network of that

[Jay Dyer]

it

[Participant]

has been going on a while.

Anthony, I had a question if you don't mind.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Participant]

And sorry if I was jumping in and out, sorry if this was covered already. But in regard to the, the Epstein emails, Peter Mendelsohn who had to resign, there's like a forward facing like monetary fraud to it, but also kind of like this like esoteric like sex blackmail to it. Because he was essentially like a, he came in with Tony Blair like decades ago and one of like these three guys that were kind of like the main people in his government but he was constantly getting found out in scandals. And then we kind of became like this minister without portfolio. And then like in the Epstein emails it comes to find out that he's like just feeding Epstein a ton of governmental information so that Epstein can make money on it in the markets. So, you know, he has to resign because of that. But also he had a. He was also Mendelson's also a homosexual. So he had a boyfriend who has some sort of Spanish last name. But Epstein opened a massage parlor for this guy. And the guy isn't a masseuse, but he's heavily involved in like esoteric black magic and like very odd, like, sexual practices. And Epstein opens a massage parlor for

[Jay Dyer]

him and is running money through it.

[Participant]

So.

[Host]

Yeah. An esoteric cabana. Pool boy. Yeah, I didn't see that exactly. Like, my, my research was pretty much strictly pertaining to his esoteric connections and I still missed that one. There were so many angles to it, man. It's. It was really difficult to research actually, just because it's like, where do you even start? But yeah, I mean, there's. There's so much stuff that I think we're still learning about. That one's interesting. Yeah, yeah, the black mat, the. The sex magic angle is like, you know, it serves multiple purposes. Definitely. Blackmail is a huge part of it. But also to, you know, like Jay was saying, like to learn about their preferences so that you could entice them more and stuff like that. Oh, I did find this. We were talking about this earlier with. Let me share the screen. One sec. Okay, so Pablo Escobar. So this is in Williams's book and I should have remembered this because I just read this part. So it says it began as a means of providing funding to Operation Gladio and its strategy of tension, along with the operation Condor and its support of right wing regimes in south and Central America. Pablo Escobar and other leading drug lords were encouraged, often by priests and bishops, by Roberto Calvi, to deposit their earnings in eight firms that had been set up by the Vatican as money laundries. Six of these firms. Alphonse San Antonio, I guess, or I don't know. Sa. No, Alphonse. Say, would that be South America United Trading Corporations. Aaron, sa Bellatrix, SA Belrose Essay. And so, okay, so he names a bunch of them in Panama. Yeah, Panama was a big spot for them. Luxembourg and 8 neurodorope establishment in Lichtenstein. By 1978, when JP2 ascended to the papal throne, the money came coming in through these firms from Medellin cartel alone was enormous. Since Escobar at the height of his power was smuggling 15 tons of cocaine into the United States every day.

[Jay Dyer]

And that was Condor was. That was when Francis, with the CIA and Operation

[Host]

oh, wow. Yeah, he was. Before he was Pope, obviously. Right. Yeah, I think. Yeah, that may even be mentioned. I think that he does talk about that. And then you have. Yeah. And they're all going through Scranton Airport in pa, which is like a pretty small. Pretty small and unsuspecting airport. I don't even think it's a major airport.

[Jay Dyer]

That's what Clinton did with Mina, Arkansas drug running, too.

[Host]

Oh, really? It was just some small, unsuspecting.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. In the middle of.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah. It's all these private planes coming through. Yeah. And then there's. Yeah, this account is great. If you don't follow this guy already. RJ Morio, he posts this kind of stuff all the time. Just highlights from books, the Bulgarian thesis. So, yeah, there's. You know, I won't read all this, but there's a lot on Escobar. So here. Lucio Geli was a pivotal figure in the plan. P2 members, Umbroto, or who had received the title of Gentleman of His Holiness from Pope Paul vi and Bruno Tassan Din, the managing director of the huge Rizzoli publishing firm. Geli had created many of the offshore corporations, including Bellatrix. And then you have. Yeah, the Popes. Yeah, there's just really interesting sections here. Yeah, there's a lot. What was this here?

[Jay Dyer]

Rosebank, too, which is part of it, but that's British intelligence. Jewish banking.

[Host]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, after her death, people kept saying she had a cocaine problem. This is a. Jessica. Stop. Savage. Savage. His demise. She was an NBC News anchor who investigated the Vatican bank, and people were saying that she had a cocaine problem. After she had this suspicious death, they tried to cover it up with like, oh, she was, you know, she OD'd or something. And we didn't even get into. What's his name? Buckley. William William F. Buckley. But he's mentioned pretty early on, too. So you had all these news, you know, news network talking heads that were involved in the early development of Gladio.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. And that's because any of them were coming out of OSS and they went into. They would either go from. They went from OSS to being news anchors and studio heads.

[Host]

Just. Yeah. Another thing that's very much still present today.

[Jay Dyer]

Or is the. The brains behind Mockingbird. So he's kind of the third generation after It's Dulles, Donovan and Wisner's the guy who's like. He studies how to fake news, literally learns the British technique for faking news, and then he becomes the CIA's mastermind behind Operation Mockingbird. Which is basically just hiring hundreds of journalists throughout the world and then you pay them off for not much money and then they just repeat whatever the CIA says. And that was still going on all the way up into not too long ago because that. There was that German journalist, Udo Ulfkata. And you can find his RT interview where he talks about how the CIA is still running Germany and he ended up dying, like later.

[Host]

Wow.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah.

[Host]

All right, a couple more comments here in the chat. Oh, that's interesting. Laurentian said Goodfellas also went through Scranton for cocaine. I didn't. I didn't realize that. Huh. William is asking, how far back does that compromising model go? Do you think the medieval Christian kings were reigning freely?

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, I think it's an. Technique. I mean, it's, you know, goes back to. I mean, you see. You see honey traps Bible, right? I mean, Delilah is on trap.

[Host]

That's true. Yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, I did a talk on, like, on this stuff, like how the Bible has like a lot of espionage techniques in it. So.

[Host]

Yeah, I think about the. I think it's in numbers or it's like they almost like send a Sicilian message. Like they chop up these body parts and they send them in like four different directions.

[Jay Dyer]

It's the end of judges.

[Host]

Oh, judges. Right. Yeah. Laurentian says in every war, regime change, there is an agent who's similar to Epstein, who is a banking connection where money can't be touched by elite circles during regime change in Iran with the Shah, World War II, of course, having their banking agents interwoven in with clandestine operations. Yep.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, I did a talk, by the way, for you guys that are. If you're interested. We did a book called Sexionage, which is the history of sexual blackmail. It's just a mainline historical book. It's not a conspiracy book, but it's very enlightening because it kind of goes through this long history as a technique.

[Host]

All right, guys, well, you know, last. Last chance here to get in any comments, questions, while we have Jay, who, you know, kindly agreed to. To join us here. After an epic run on many, like I said, many high level podcasts, he's moving up. He's just got 200,000 subscribers. So big congrats on that.

[Participant]

Congrats.

[Jay Dyer]

Thanks. Yeah, I think the ones that are really, at least for this audience, the John Kiriakou review is going to be really hype. I think that one came out good. Is supposed to go up in about a week. And then we. We cut all the gladio stuff. Like we're talking about today on the one I just put up on my channel, you.

[Host]

Were you on his show?

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah.

[Host]

Oh, wow. Yeah, that one was pretty good. Yeah, I love him.

[Jay Dyer]

We went really hard on that one.

[Host]

Nice. Oh, that's awesome, Anthony. I did.

[Participant]

I have one last question for Jay.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Participant]

And thank you for doing this, Jay.

[Host]

I appreciate it.

[Jay Dyer]

Like books.

[Participant]

What's that?

[Jay Dyer]

I. It's refreshing to chat with you who actually like books and read the books. That's rare. So.

[Participant]

Yeah. Yeah. And sorry if this was covered. Francis Stoner Saunders, cultural Cold War. Did you guys cover that at all?

[Jay Dyer]

Not today. I've. I'm familiar with Maya.

[Participant]

I mean, my view on that, and I think you've covered it before, is like one of the. The view within, like, the Cold war paradigm from like, the CIA and US standpoint was like, we have to pose ourselves as the. The true freedom fighters, the true liberators. So the way that we're going to do that is market our market, you know, essentially degeneracy freedom, freedom of money, freedom of sexual practices, freedom of speech so that we can defeat the Soviet Union and bring the rest of the world in the third world under. Under our. Under our sway. Would you say that that's correct and that's kind of like the gist of her book?

[Jay Dyer]

Pretty much, yeah.

[Participant]

Okay, thank you.

[Jay Dyer]

Far as uniting with, like, French postmodernists. Right. And I covered that in my second book, the first chapter. My second book is about this. I mean, yes. Thought. And I. I got into this. Tim Gordon, quite frank. We're talking about Gladio with. With, quite frankly, the other day. It's on my channel. We get into the history of. Of all that as well.

[Host]

Nice. I'll have to. Yeah, I'll leave a. I didn't see that one. I'll leave a link to that when I post this on YouTube. I. I didn't realize you're. That's cool. You're talking about it again now. I mean, it's. Like I said, it's kind of becoming more relevant now with some of the recent events happening here.

[Jay Dyer]

I'll send you a couple links, Anthony, because.

[Host]

Yeah, please do.

[Jay Dyer]

What's coming up?

[Participant]

Also wanted to say thanks for jumping on and doing this and doing the read with us. I actually originally bought this book because of you about. I'd say probably a year, year and a half ago. And then once I got it and read it, I immediately bought like, five more copies and just started giving them out. And it's actually kind of funny. I. I went to go give it to somebody at church and they weren't there and I had it and I was like, ah. So I just went and gave it to Father Christopher, who you also know. And he was like, oh. I'm like, oh, yeah, I guess probably not your kind of book. He's like, nope, not at all. Felt bad. I was like, oh, well, thanks. So thanks for the recommendations and look forward to eventually reading some more of your books. Probably on.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, if you guys want a deep. You want something in the same vein, definitely get the Wim Hof book on the doctrinal warfare program. And then Daniel Ganzer's NATO book.

[Host]

Or yeah, NATO's army, I think it's called.

[Jay Dyer]

It's even more academic than Williams's book.

[Participant]

Nice.

[Host]

Yeah. Laurentian's asking here, I'll just share it here because I got the list up. He's asking what I think, what book would you recommend next for potential book club topics or books? We've got the list. People were back and forth about this because I was going to do it where like we vote on what we read next, but it was like a lot of upkeep to do it that way. So I did kind of like pre select. It's. It's not a hard suggestion, but I did pre select a list. So this month we've got. Here, let me share this here we're reading, let's see. Oh, Occidental Eschatology by Jacob Taubes. Have you read that one, Jay?

[Jay Dyer]

No, I've never heard of that.

[Host]

Yeah, well, he's a Jewish scholar who's writing on a lot of the stuff about, you know, it actually ties into like evangelical eschatology. So he's kind of tracing the origins of like modern eschatology and how it's essentially, you know, all Jewish. Like, I think he talks a lot about. What's it, what's his name? Who's the guy that came up with the tripartite model, like the dispensations. The medieval Darby. Not. Not Darby, Medieval Catholic.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, Yoko.

[Host]

Yeah. Yoko Ma Fury. Yeah. So I kind of use it. You know how all these guys use that model and stuff. And then we'll do Rachel Wilson's book, Occult Feminism, Last Days of the Romanovs by Robert Wilton that was suggested by Rasputin Archive, who's got a lot of good resources. We'll read DPH's book, that's. That's still on here. New Media Epidemic by Jean Claude Larche. That one's interested in that. And we got a Michael Hoffman book. Judaism, Strange Gods. That's going to be a spicy one. So. And then yeah, Propaganda by Edward Bernays. Kind of entry level conspiracy stuff, you know, important to read that text.

[Jay Dyer]

That one's a class.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, that one's, that one's like a big like mask off book. He's like just telling you how propaganda works firsthand from the father godfather of propaganda himself.

[Jay Dyer]

I have an hour talk on that too if anyone's interested.

[Host]

Oh really? Yeah, that, yeah that. So interesting about him how he invented the bacon, eggs. Bacon and eggs, breakfast.

[Jay Dyer]

A lot of things.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

Mark say like gimmick marketing. He invented, I think I want to say bacon and eggs. Something to do with cigarettes.

[Host]

Yeah, he got, he got, basically he got women to smoke. He started the Virginia Slims. Women's Lib he called. That's what torches of freedom. Yeah, yeah, he got, he did. He used all this feminist propaganda to get women to smoke and boosted the sales of the cigarette industry by like you know, 200% or something. Yeah, he was, yeah, he's. He was involved in the Banana Republic. Yeah, he was a really interesting guy. Got got the. Was it the grand grand nephew of Sigmund Freud and then also Bernays grand. I think his, his grandson or great grandson was the CEO of Netflix.

[Jay Dyer]

Correct.

[Host]

But yeah. So looking forward to the list. I mean if you guys have any like suggestions on stuff that I missed or that you'd rather read instead, I'm. I'm open to suggestions. Right. As of right now, you know, we're a little late on this meeting because we're trying to do things per month, so. But it's a shorter read. This Occidental eschatology, I'm interested. What you guys think about it is something I drew from in my writing of my book. So you know, interested to hear your thoughts on it. But yeah, thanks again, Jay. I appreciate you stopping by this little book club we have going here. It's really nice to have you here and you know you joined us last year for I think it was Father Spirit and Bailey's book because you were mentioned in that one. So it's good to have you share your insights.

[Jay Dyer]

Thanks man. Appreciate. Yeah, you guys are doing good work.

[Host]

Thanks man.

[Jay Dyer]

All right, cool.

[Host]

All right guys. Yeah, we'll see you. Have a, have a blessed Posca because I won't see you until then. So I'll be locked in and we'll see you next week.

[Participant]

All right, sounds good. Thank you guys.