Jay Dyer & the Epstein Files: QAnon PsyOp, Rothschild Power, Occult Books & the Conspiracy State Revealed

Summary

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Jay'sAnalysis – Jay Dyer & the Epstein Files: QAnon PsyOp, Rothschild Power, Occult Books & The Conspiracy State Revealed

Release Date: March 1, 2026
Host: Isaac Weisson (plus co-host “Bretzky”)
Guest: Jay Dyer

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Episode Overview

This episode brings together Jay Dyer, known for his in-depth research on geopolitics, occultism, and global elites, for a deep dive into the recent release of the Epstein files. The hosts and Jay tackle central questions about the nature of the Epstein network, its validation of once-fringe conspiracies, the roles of elites and intelligence agencies, and how occult ideas intersect with realpolitik. Throughout the conversation, they question the boundaries between disinformation, psyops, and hard evidence, all while considering the broader implications for public awareness.

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Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Vindication of Conspiracy Theories Through the Epstein Files

• The recent release of the Epstein files is seen as a huge "vindication" for conspiracy researchers, with years of rumors about elite sex trafficking, blackmail operations, and ritual abuse moving into public record.
• Jay Dyer:

  "It's a big vindication... It's largely all true. ... It's the highest levels of government and it's international." ([07:30])

• Jay references historical cases (Finders, Savile, Franklin Coverup, McMartin Preschool) as precedents to the Epstein revelations, stating these are no longer "fringe" topics.

2. The Epstein Network: International Reach & Power Structures

• The files expose cross-national elite networks involving governments, finance, and celebrities; not restricted to any single country or sector.
• Jay posits that Epstein was a consultant for the highest echelons, working with both the Rockefellers and Rothschilds, backed by newly revealed emails.
• Quote:

  "If you look at Epstein's operation... It's international and it's the highest levels of government, finance, celebrities, etc, it's everything that we've talked about." ([12:14])

3. Epstein’s Unique Role: Not the Top, But Close

• The idea that Epstein is not the “top” of the pyramid; instead, there are likely multiple "Epsteins" and even higher operatives.
• Jay Dyer:

  “He’s not at the tip top of the pyramid because remember he’s brought up kind of out of nowhere ... but by age 30, he’s at Trilateral Commission.” ([22:11])

• Whitney Webb’s research is highlighted, pointing out Maxwell’s role as a Mossad intermediary and the Rothschild-backed operations.

4. Occult Interests, Esoteric Books & Symbolic Art

• Epstein’s manifest interest in the occult is discussed: his Amazon book purchases reportedly include Crowley’s works on sex magic, Kabbalah, and alternative histories.
• The significance of symbolism and “coded language” (e.g., “beef jerky”, “tuna”, “seafood”) in the files is debated as possible code for trafficking or even darker topics like organ harvesting and cannibalism.
• Quote:

  “He does specify that he's into esoteric stuff. As you said, the book list has multiple Crowley OTO type stuff...” ([34:37])

• Conversation touches on artwork in Epstein’s mansions, with themes of predator-prey and references to surrealist art reminiscent of notorious crime scenes (e.g., Man Ray in the Black Dahlia case).

5. Intelligence, Financial Manipulation & Global Strategy

• Epstein is portrayed as a "PhD in criminal operations," a fixer and consultant for elite criminal networks, paralleling figures in organized crime history like Meyer Lansky.
• He operated above standard intelligence agencies, involved in global strategic moves such as financial “fire sales”—echoing Rothschild tactics after Waterloo.
• Discussion of his direct ties to Trilateral Commission, acting at the behest of both Kissinger and Rockefeller, and direct involvement in banking maneuvers around Greece, Ukraine, and beyond.

6. Disinformation, QAnon, and the PsyOp Question

• Jay consistently identifies QAnon as disinformation and a “distraction”, cautioning listeners to distinguish fact from deliberate decoy narratives.
• The hosts question whether the release of these files (or emphasis on occult/trafficking narratives) could itself be a type of “limited hangout,” a way of gradually normalizing or distracting from deeper crimes.
• Quote:

  “I've always thought QAnon stuff was like, disinformation and all in a. A distraction, a deflection...” ([07:30]) “It could be the case in the long term... that this might just normalize this type of stuff.” ([53:58])

7. Geopolitics, Banking, and the “Real” Controllers

• Jay encourages a focus beyond the sensational, to the structural power of banker elites—Rothschilds, Rockefellers, but also the Vatican Bank, International Bank of Settlements, and organizations like CFR and Trilateral Commission.
• Suggestion that documentation in “elite written” books (Quigley, Brzezinski, Kissinger) is more credible proof than fringe conspiracy literature.

8. Occult Symbolism in Pop Culture

• Jay discusses his new book “Esoteric Hollywood 3,” which explores the encoded occult and geopolitical symbolism in classic and modern films (Marvel, Cronenberg, silent-era Crowley films).
• References to films like “Under the Silver Lake,” “Eyes Wide Shut,” “Manhunter,” and “Scary of 61st” as revealing artistic depictions of the same networks and rituals now validated by the Epstein files.
• Quote:

  "What's really going on is in the real books, and it's in the movies... movies will portray it in a symbolic or coded, sometimes outright way..." ([49:38])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the “Russian doll” nature of power:

  “I imagine there's multiple Epstein's out there, multiple ops running.” – Bretzky ([12:31])

• On the scope of Epstein’s consulting:

  “He's a consultant, an organized crime fixer... a PhD in criminal operations. He's not so much a brilliant philosopher; he thinks all reality is mathematics ... it's real out there.” – Jay Dyer ([22:11])

• On the normalization risk:

  “It could be the case... that this might just normalize this type of stuff. Right. Especially the underage type stuff... So people might become desensitized to it.” – Jay Dyer ([53:58])

• On the need for solid sources:

  “If I can see in geopolitical text from Brzezinski, from Kissinger, from Rockefeller... I don't really need to go to a conspiracy document to say, well, maybe it's true. No, it's true. From their actual books.” – Jay Dyer ([29:03])

• On the occult elite circle:

  “He had about five occult books that he had purchased, like his Amazon list or something. And one of those was one of the Crowley texts on sex, Sex, magic and Tantra.” – Jay Dyer ([22:11])

• On JonBenet Ramsey & serial killers:

  “I suspect there would probably end up being connections to some of the famous serial killer cases because ...this is such an international, multi layered crime operation that's like involved in everything.” – Jay Dyer ([42:43])

• On disinformation:

  “Disinformation doesn't mean that everything that's coming out is fake. Right, because they mix the fake with the true...” – Jay Dyer ([56:55])

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [07:30] - Jay Dyer on mainstreaming and confirming elite crime networks
• [12:11] - Epstein as the "real Illuminati" – not THE top, but a key node
• [16:54] - International scope, Mossad, Maxwell, and Rothschild connections
• [22:11] - Epstein's occult reading, consulting for world leaders, and being a “fixer”
• [29:03] - Jay on banking elites, intelligence strategy, and occult history
• [34:37] - Epstein’s book list, coded language ("beef jerky"), and possible meaning
• [40:02] - Discussion of the potential for cannibalism/organ harvesting codes
• [45:46] - Predator-prey art in Epstein’s apartment, filmic parallels
• [53:58] - Could the file drops be a form of normalization?
• [56:55] - Difference between direct and symbolic ("symbolic pyramid") conspiracy
• [64:55] - Quigley’s “Tragedy and Hope” as a primer on real elite power
• [68:57] - Esoteric Hollywood 3: films, directors, and occult symbolism
• [72:14] - Silent era films as early vessels for Crowley and occult messaging

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Resource Recommendations

• Books:

  • “Tragedy and Hope” by Carroll Quigley (overview of Western elite structure)
  • “Anglo-American Establishment” by Carroll Quigley (shorter, more readable)
  • Whitney Webb’s research on Epstein
  • “By Way of Deception” by Victor Ostrovsky (on Mossad philosophy)
  • “Lucifer’s Lodge” by William Kennedy
  • Kurt Barker’s memoirs (ritual abuse)

• Films Mentioned:

  • “Under the Silver Lake”
  • “Eyes Wide Shut”
  • “Manhunter”
  • “Fresh”
  • “18th Angel”
  • “Scary of 61st”

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Conclusion & Takeaways

The episode serves as both a crash course and a deep dive into the convergence of the geopolitical, criminal, and occult dimensions of elite power as revealed through the Epstein files. Jay Dyer offers the perspective that current revelations legitimize decades-old conspiracies, though listeners should remain vigilant about possible disinformation and psychological operations.

He urges listeners to go beyond surface-level sensationalism and to ground their understanding in documented elite strategy (Quigley, Webb, Brzezinski) and in the subtextual clues offered by both literature and film. The implications for how society processes and potentially normalizes these revelations remain an open—and troubling—question.

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For More

• Find Jay’s work: jaysanalysis.com, YouTube: "Jay Dyer"
• Book: "Esoteric Hollywood 3" available for purchase and signed copies
• Upcoming analysis: “Under the Silver Lake” film breakdown

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Selected Quotes (with attribution and [timestamp]) are italicized in the main headings above.
Ads, non-content, and channel announcements omitted for clarity and focus.

Transcript

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What's up, everybody?

[Isaac Weisson]

It's Isaac with the intro to the intro, which you know what that means. I've got a special treat for you today. It's the return of my longest oldest friend since birthing Isaac weisson back in 2011. It's Jay Dyer. That's right. The last time we linked up was June 2024 when we did a lecture together in Las Vegas with Jim Bob and Jimmy Hanshaw.

[Bretzky]

And I negotiated with Jay to squeeze

[Isaac Weisson]

an hour in out of his very busy schedule. He's going to drop his insights into the Epstein files.

[Bretzky]

Very important show here.

[Isaac Weisson]

We're going to discuss ideas like, hey, are the Epstein files possibly a silence psyop through QAnon, Jay gives his ideas on the definition of beef jerky, how the Rothschilds and Rockefellers are coordinating all this stuff.

[Bretzky]

Possibly we talk a little bit about under the Silver Lake, which by the

[Isaac Weisson]

way, don't forget to watch under the Silver Lake. It's going to be coming soon or should be the next episode if I

[Bretzky]

can get my stuff together here.

[Isaac Weisson]

We talk about Steve Bannon interviews. We talk about Epstein's occult books. We talk about Carol Quigley book recommendations as we try to navigate understanding the geopolitical atmosphere of how this whole thing happened.

[Bretzky]

It's gonna be a very good show today. Also, quick housekeeping. Before we get into the interview, watch

[Isaac Weisson]

the video version of this interview.

[Bretzky]

You can go with the ad free

[Isaac Weisson]

uncensored version on tier 2 of Patreon or VIP section. Or if you want to hit that free feed version, go to YouTube @ult symbolism. And be sure to subscribe and hit

[Bretzky]

the bell for all notifications to help

[Isaac Weisson]

me get to a hundred thousand. Want to get to 100,000 by the

[Bretzky]

end of the year so I can run with the big dogs.

[Isaac Weisson]

Jay's at like 200,000.

[Bretzky]

Come on, let's go. I'll also have links in the show

[Isaac Weisson]

notes for all the places you can follow Jay. And be sure to pick up his Esoteric Hollywood series from jsanalysis.com we're going to talk about Esoteric Hollywood 3, his latest book.

[Bretzky]

Towards the end of the show. He makes some fascinating connections and findings

[Isaac Weisson]

to silent movie era stuff with Aleister Crowley. It's crazy.

[Bretzky]

So, so without further ado, here's Jay Dyer. Today we've got the king of guest appearances on ault symbolism of pop culture. You guys know him from his blog and podcast@Jay's analysis.com as well as his massive YouTube channel. He's the writer for the Sam Hyde show, author of several books, co host of the Hollywood decoded show, debate champion, a host on Infowars. I don't know if I can say that he found time in his busy schedule to join us today. We're joined by the unstoppable Jay Dyer. Jay Dyer, how you doing, man?

[Jay Dyer]

What's up, Isaac? Glad to be back with you. It's been a while.

[Bretzky]

Yeah, it's been a couple years.

[Jay Dyer]

Been two years. Yeah, exactly. So glad to be back with you and always love chopping it up.

[Bretzky]

Yeah, you're, you're, you know, as, as the listeners probably know, you're one of the, one of the G's that I, I trust and go back with. Since I started doing this, you were doing it before me and I've, I've, I've watched you from a distance, ascend to the stars. So I don't know about, hopefully I can get you back on in the future manual.

[Jay Dyer]

Maybe, maybe a little bit of a third of the way. I don't know about.

[Bretzky]

Yeah, I don't know. You're being modest. Yeah. But yeah, you're doing great, man. You're doing good work. But I wanted to get you on because the last time I had you on was in 2024. And I mean, so much has changed since then. David lynch is dead now and the Epstein files is obviously the red hot topic that we all can't stop talking about. And I know you are one of the more well educated on the Epstein files folks that I know. And I think last time we talked a little tiny bit about the realm of the truther. And you know, I, I'm trying to. And, and this is. We were talking about before the show. I'm going through some changes here and I'm trying to like embrace various conspiracy theorists for what they're saying because I tend to dismiss some of the ideas a little prematurely and that's what, something I've learned about myself from the Epstein

[Isaac Weisson]

files

[Bretzky]

and we'll kind of dabble around that. But I wanted to get you, get you going and riffing on the Epstein files because there, these files are cryptic and not so cryptic at the same time. And it seems to be proving the

[Isaac Weisson]

most outlandish conspiracies that we've been talking

[Bretzky]

about for all these years of pizza and, and Wayfair and like, crazy stuff. And I. I feel like that's what we're looking at, is the truth being revealed to us. What do you make of this whole thing?

[Jay Dyer]

It is a big vindication. I remember in 2004, it was the first book I read on ritual abuse. And it was a Catholic journalist that wrote a book called Lucifer's Lodge by William Kennedy about racial abuse inside the Roman Catholic world. And then I read subsequently several books back in the 2000s on that subject. Jamie got me to read back in about 2018 or so, somewhere in there, Kurt Barker's book on this stuff. Of course, I've read Cappy, you know, Cathie Wood's book over the years. So there's a lot of these types of books that have been out there credible, some less credible. And, you know, it certainly makes sense why people would have been kind of skeptical about some of the crazier elements of it. But there were some things that seem to be fairly substantial. You did have the famous cases I'm sure we're all aware of, like the finders. We know about, you know, Savile coming out. We know about serial killers and the things that they were into that we've covered on podcast. You had Elm Guest House. That's very similar to the Epstein operation. You had Operation Midnight climax for the CIA using MKUltra and prostitutes. Again, another connection to kind of sex rings. You have, you know, Paul Bonacci and Michael Aquino and the Presidio stuff. You know, we keep having so many of these cases where over the years, Franklin cover up, obviously with Nick Bryant, which I'll be doing a show with Nick Bryant tomorrow. But, like, we know that there's all these cases and yet it would still be kind of denied in the mainstream. You know what I mean? Like, and even in the conspiracy world, it's kind of seen as still fringe. And I guess just what's the craziest part is that, yeah, it's. It's largely all true. I mean, obviously not everything is true. But, like, I'm still not a QAnon fan. I've always thought QAnon stuff was like, disinformation and all in a. A distraction, a deflection. But I think, you know, being a person who has argued for the reality of ritual abuse and cults. And another thing I remember that was really Formative for this idea was when I watched Ted Gunnarson's lectures back when it was Google video. Everybody remembers Google video, you know, prior to YouTube and, and Ted Gunnison was the, you know, California FBI guy who was investigating the McMartin preschool case. And of course he claimed there was satanic ritual abuse, there was tunnels, you know, all this outlandish stuff that so it seemed. And lo and behold, when the FBI declassified the finder stuff and they declassified, then after that, the McMartin preschool stuff, turns out there's tunnels. So, I mean, it does make sense why the elite would have sort of underground facilities and that kind of stuff. Sure. I've never thought that wasn't true. Underground bases do exist. That's a topic We've covered for 10 years. And we always try to stick to what's real and what you can demonstrate. People want to speculate, that's fine. But you know, when it comes to like underground bases and that kind of stuff, people go crazy with it. Now there's an alien and underground base and a general went down there and he saw the clones. And I mean, I don't believe in those things, but I do think that there are elite cult networks that work to do things underground and you know, on the down low, especially when it comes to like the sexual blackmail and the trafficking and all that, all those things are now confirmed. They're 100 true. But I also want to add that, you know, it's not just the sex stuff and, and we can go into the blackmail operations and sex, be honest, because I've actually spent quite a bit of time the last couple years going pretty deep into that. I myself went to a bunch of brothels just to test it out. And I'm just joking. No, but I'm saying I've got, I got a bunch of nerd books that I read on from writers and historians on, on the history of like how that blackmail honey trap stuff has worked throughout. Throughout time. Anyway, long story short, it's also important that like, it's the highest levels of government and it's international. You know, if you look at Epstein's operation, and I've been going hardcore on Epstein since the day it dropped, you know, I think I streamed like 30 hours last week on every single day. It was like new, new, new. Every time you would refresh Twitter, it was like a mind blowing news story that 10 years ago would have been the news story for a month. It's like every minute on Twitter is another one of these, you know, emails or Whatever. So we've been following a hardcore. And again, you're correct, it does kind of indicate. I don't know if it's 100%, but a lot of the coded language, you know, a lot of the trafficking is all confirmed. But also it's international and it's the highest levels of government. Finance, celebrities, etc, it's everything that we've talked about. Last time I was on with Alex, I said my talk for the fourth hour was Jeffrey Epstein is the real Illuminati. I don't know how to say it better than that.

[Bretzky]

Yeah, that's.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, I mean he's at the top of the pyramid, but he's like up there, you know what I mean?

[Bretzky]

Yeah, I was listening to. Man, where were you at? Dude? You've been everywhere lately. Holy crap. I don't know how you're getting enough sleep.

[Isaac Weisson]

I don't.

[Bretzky]

Was it redacted? You're on one of these shows.

[Jay Dyer]

I was watching it, yeah.

[Bretzky]

And, and you guys were talking about it and how the truth is that Epstein probably isn't the top of the pyramid. There's probably. I mean, would it be fair to say you think there could be several Epstein's or even higher level Epstein's? I mean, because. Because in my head I think the normies, if they even pay attention to this Epstein stuff, they're probably going to walk away with. Yeah, but they got the bad guy, he's dead and everything's fine now. But knowing how this works, like these sort of like, you know, the Russian dolls, the shells within the shells, like I imagine there's multiple Epstein's out there, multiple ops running.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, yeah, no, I don't doubt that. I mean, I don't know who, who those people are, of course, but you know, when the same publisher as Whitney Webb's book and when Whitney's book came out, you know, I read it and was impressed because it's a lot of good research and most of her analysis has now been vindicated and she talked quite extensively about, you know, Robert Maxwell being the sort of British intelligence and Mossad frontis piece that then brings in Epstein through, just laying his daughter. And that was confirmed Pretty much. I mean assuming that Jeffrey Epstein's telling the right, the right history on it. When he put that, when there was the email where he explained the death of Robert, he says that Robert was trying to blackmail the Mossad for £400 million and at the same time appointing himself to also be an attache to the Soviets. And then the Soviets believed that he was a Double that he was playing both sides, right? So there's this, this double agent aspect going on where he's trying to play both sides in the Cold War. But Whitney said that the whole publishing empire that Maxwell set up was a front for the Rothschilds. And I would say that has all pretty much been vindicated. According to many of these emails where, you know, EPC is basically saying I'm an attache allegate for the Rothschilds. There's at least two that say that there's other emails where he basically has these, you know, substantial 25 million dollar deals with them. And you know, I thought about it and I thought, I've got these biographies on the raw tales I've read years ago. So I went back and pulled out my old Morton Rothschild's biography and lo and behold, if you go back to the famous Waterloo story, they were using advanced intelligence as to what would happen at the, at the, at the victor, at the Battle of Waterloo. And he went back and he used that advanced intelligence to buy up the stock market as it crashed, right? Lo and behold, Epstein's doing the same thing, right? He says that when we go into Greece, the markets are going to tank, we can buy up Greece. He's saying that to Arne Ariana de Rotha. He says the same thing about Ukraine. Everybody's already forgotten the Somalia email. He said, we're going to go in to Somalia, cause chaos, buy it all up through the war and the conflict, we'll make zillions and then by implication other negative effects of people displacement, shall we say. So you see Epstein involved in that. You see him commenting extensively on the bailouts from, you know, 15 years ago, the, the Greek bailouts, European bailouts. That was all to kind of buy out and, and buy up Greece, what Max Kaiser back in the day called a fire sale for Greece. All that's confirmed. And he had his hand in that. He's in Ukraine a month before Zelensky comes into to power. And then Zelensky's texting and saying, I need help with Ukraine, get me Epstein to help me consult. Literally asking for Epstein to help him consult. I mean that I just want to point out that like the international scope of Spectre here, I mean this is literally Kristoff vaults inspector playing Blofell when Bond goes in to Italy and it's like the Club of Rome and he sneaks in there and you see that shady little sh. Sh. Shadow character over there and it's like, sir, this year human trafficking is up 50%. Yes, we have we've made 14 billion more dollars from money laundering this year. It's like a criminal business report at a giant table. It's awesome, you know, movie wise, but I'm thinking that's exactly Epstein. Now, is he at the top of the pyramid? Well, he's up there because as we learned from this amazing Bannon interview, and by the way, wow, Bannon has come out to be a pretty nasty character.

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[Jay Dyer]

I think you were kind of onto that one a long time ago. Props to you.

[Bretzky]

Yeah, but well, and I do want to insert my, my, my situation of what I'm going through mentally here is because as my listeners know I did like a full three hour explanation of who I am and my background and I would classify, classify myself as like a moderate liberal but not like go dnc. Like I'm not like, I don't endorse Democrats because I think they're just as bad and from the files we know that that's the truth now.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah.

[Bretzky]

So I don't have like much fanfare for conservative thought. So like a guy like Steve Bannon, I immediately like don't trust them. Right off the bat. Same with Donald Trump.

[Jay Dyer]

Right.

[Bretzky]

Like, I've been very openly vocal that I don't trust Donald Trump from the beginning because I'm just not a conservative guy. And that's fine. Like I always say, like, almost all of my friends are Trumpers. In fact, just this weekend I was discussing my opinions about it. And that's fine. I don't hold it against people who like conservatives. I live in Utah, which is the most conservative state in the Union. It's fine. But my, I, so like, I have this dis. I have what you know, the Trump derangement syndrome, as they say. And the same would extend to Steve Bannon. Like, I also never trusted that guy and I haven't seen the full interviews that he has with Epstein. I knew that they existed. I, I don't know if they were part of the Epstein file drop or not.

[Jay Dyer]

They were, but I think so.

[Bretzky]

I, I haven't. And I'm like, you, dude, every time I refresh or just get on social media, I mean, I'll scroll for five seconds and be like, holy crap, I guess I've got work to do. There's this thing that's proven right from 10 years ago. And it, it's kind of maddening, to be honest.

[Jay Dyer]

It is crazy. No, but real quick, just with Epstein, what I was getting at was just that. So when he, what he says in the interview with Bannon is, I, I was brought into trilateral by the Kissinger circles to be the legate attache for David Rockefeller. And so they made him at age 30, part of the steering committee of trilateral, which, if you guys don't recall, that was specifically created out of the CFR by Kissinger and Rockefeller for Brzezinski. So there you have this like higher level steering committee, kind of like Bilderberg or whatever. And he's right there with Rockefeller. And that what that shows us is if you remember, there was a article that came out, I want to say the New York Times maybe like eight years ago, but it, it said that the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds had united their financial empires about eight years ago. And that again, kind of shows that with, it's the same with, with Jeff Stein, McGuffery, as I said, because he's this legate attache directly underneath David Rockefeller. But he's also, in the emails, I represent the Rothschilds, you know, he says it's a Peter Thiel. So this is not restricted to one nation state. If you think about the Western power block or the Atlantis's power block. And the five eyes, intelligence sharing, you know, stuff that goes on. That's exactly what Whitney Webb said. I've always thought that was correct. Alex says the same thing. He was a, a consultant, high level political person above the CIA because he's working directly at Trilateral Commission. That's above like just normal CIA operative people. He's very high up, maybe not necessarily at the top of the pyramid because there's some emails kind of indicating that he's taking orders at times too. But you know, when you listen to the, the many. I don't know if you heard the conversation that he has that was recorded between him and Ehud Barack, the former Prime Minister of Israel, who visited, by the way, his New York place over a dozen times. He's explaining to him what, for example, Silicon Valley is, what, who Peter Thiel is, what Palantir is, all this kind of stuff.

[Isaac Weisson]

Yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

And they want to bring him on board with their project. So he's kind of a consultant, he's a, an organized crime fixer. I think my opinion is that looking at all this and he's more of like a PhD in criminal operations. He's not so much a, a brilliant philosopher. Like he wants to come off in that interview. If you watch the banana interviews, it's really bizarre because significant portions of it touch on sort of Kabbalistic subjects. So it's almost like he had a fascination or an interest perhaps with Kabbalah. He thinks that all reality is mathematics, sort of Pythagoreanism type stuff. He thinks consciousness is produced from the mind and it's math, it's, it's real out there. Weird stuff that Epstein was into, but he lays that all out and, and then somebody, one of my friends just yesterday pointed out that there's a book list and he had about five occult books that he had purchased, like his Amazon list or something. And one of those was one of the Crowley texts on rich, on sex, Sex, magic and Tantra. So I think he was interested in a lot of these subjects, Kabbalah, you know, Crowley and ideas. Tantra, I think even had something like Blood, Holy Blood, Holy Grail, something ridiculous on there too. Like, you know, alternative history type stuff too on there. But, but yeah, he's an organized crime fixer, Blofeld person. But not at the nest, not at the tip top of the pyramid because remember he's brought up kind of out of nowhere into the bar school, OSS Donald Barr. Right. And then he, then he goes into Bear Stearns. He's placed there in the Wall street domain, as Whitney points out, which is, I think, a really telling thing. His partner gets in trouble for insider trading, but he doesn't. And so then he just. He just kind of goes up the ladder. And eventually, by age 30, he's at, you know, Trilateral Commission. I mean, that's. That's a huge rise. You know what I mean? To be age 30 and be being. Do. Be doing that. And Bannon even asked him something like, why were they interested in you? You're just some random Jewish kid from wherever. Like, how did you get up there that quick? And he said, well, I had a skill and an ability to explain fractional reserve banking. Right. Which is also a criminal operation, the fiat Federal Reserve and all that. So he. He basically just. And it's funny, too, because in the interview, Bannon. It sounds like Bannon doesn't even understand what that is. Like, he's not even aware of, like, the photo. It's his bizarre interview. But, yeah, so that's. I think what Epstein is. Is he's one of these International crime consultant, PhD in criminal stuff. And if you think about the Mafia in the past podcast, we've done an organized crime in the Mafia. Several figures within the mob were that way. Lucky Luciano, for example, he went to Meyer Lansky to help get the Sicilian Mafia structured in America, by the way, and the mindset that Meyer Lansky had. So Meyer Lansky actually structured the Mafia even for the Italians in the US and that's. That's well known now. Okay, so I think I would say Epstein's kind of like a Meyer Lansky kind of character. Yeah, that's what I think.

[Bretzky]

Okay, now it's. And this is why I wanted to talk to you, because you're so well versed in this sort of geopolitical. I can't think of the name of it, like, you know, Trilateral Commission, Club of Rome, like, all these sort of organizations that I've heard over the years. Bill Cooper talked about it a bunch of.

[Jay Dyer]

For.

[Bretzky]

For some reason when I went down my journey of, like, okay, I'm really going to pursue this and try to understand all this stuff. Like, that's not the aspect that. That seemed exciting to me. Like, I've always been interested in occult stuff and symbolism and things, but now I'm seeing the value in it in the sense of. I think I have to understand how these pieces come together. And there is. How do I say this? I started looking at some of the ideas presented by so many theorists before me, like the Protocols document. You know, you Know what you're picking up, what I'm putting down. And those are things that I never wanted to look at. Not because I was like, oh, that's. That can't be right. But it was more of like, yeah, but like, what's the fruit that this thing bears? I'm gonna, what, say, tell everybody. Yeah, there's this group that runs the world. They're the evil ones. And then. Then what happens? Then it sort of makes. It makes for sort of like a bad environment. And people maybe will take that message to go too far with it and go against the wrong people that are just, like, trying to live their lives. But now that all this stuff's happening with Epstein, and we know there's a clear link right, from Epstein over to a certain area, and now I'm like, digging into all this stuff. I mean, I've got some wild content I'm consuming that is very heavily slanted. Like, you ever hear the Europa documentary? It's like 10, 12 hours.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, I would say also there's some issues with Europa, particularly. Keith woods at his website has done a really detailed breakdown of all the specific areas where Europa kind of gets stuff wrong. And the reason that's relevant. Yeah, the reason that's relevant is that I've actually been engaging in quite a few debates lately with some of the people from that domain. Because what a lot of people do is, like, they say, oh, well, not that you're saying this, but, like, people think, oh, wait a minute, if I've been lied to about everything, then, oh, then maybe Tiny Mustache man was a good dude. I don't buy that. I know you're not saying that, but, like, that's what a lot of people are flipping over to and thinking, oh, that's got to be the answer. Because it's just dialectics. And that's why I've been arguing with a lot of those people lately that, no, it's the same banking elites that funded World War II. And I think there's a significant amount of information that proves that you're right. It's not that interesting. It's not as sexy as sex magic or whatever. You know what I mean? Content. It's kind of boring at times, but it's necessary because, you know, not everybody at that level is a wizard in the sense of, like, being into Crowley. Many of them are, but I don't think they all are. And so, you know, in my view, the occult cult side of the pyramid, it's one key, important angle on it all.

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[Jay Dyer]

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[Bretzky]

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[Jay Dyer]

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[Jay Dyer]

And at the end of the day, I think, yeah, there is kind of a satanic conspiracy at the tip top. You know, it's ultimately a demonic thing, but from the human level down, I mean, it really does tend to constantly go back to international corporations and international banks. I mean, that's kind of at the tip top. That's, you know, I don't think there's any question about that. And banking necessarily will involve, especially in the history of Western civilization, the Rothschilds. You just can't get away from it. Now, they're not the only family that's powerful and important here, but you can verify from even top kabbalistic scholars. I read several books from Gershom Scholem, and he wrote a book called From Frankism to Jacobinism, which is about Jacob Frank and the Sabatians and their influence on certain movements like the French Revolution, the Jacobins. So if you ask about some of these more doubted historical documents like Proto, you know what calls my opinion of that is that I don't know the veracity or the provenance of those documents, but I do think that there is an underlying sort of plan and a very similar document to this is when they discovered Bishop's documents. Right. And the reason that matters is because, I mean, we don't exactly know 100% if Adam Weishaupt himself wrote, you know, the plan for global world communism and socialism, but there is that plan, right? So I don't even have to know. Like, really, the, the, the veracity of the document itself is ultimately not that important. If there is actually a movement and plan to do this, you Know what I'm saying? So it could be, you know, some of those documents could be legit. I don't. I don't know. I haven't. I haven't done any kind of textual analysis of. From my vantage point, I've always tried to focus on the global elite books themselves. And so if I can see in geopolitical text from Brzezinski, from Kissinger, from Rockefeller, if I go into the Rothschild's biographies and I find them admitting everything, I don't really need to go to a conspiracy document to say, well, maybe it's true. No, it's true. From their actual books. I think that's a lot more effective. And that's why I kind of appreciate Whitney's book, because she doesn't dub a whole lot into, like, speculations. Although to make one important point about the occult, Leslie Wexner, who seems to be very close to Epstein and Epstein seems to be a money manager of some sorts. Whatever that exactly means for Wexner, who had the Victoria's Secret clothing empire, you know, all throughout the 90s, 2000s, etc, all those brands that everybody knows from the 90s and 2000s, like Abercrombie and Fitch, that's all, you know, Wexner stuff. That was also another way that they were getting the supermodels in and doing, like, with. If you look at Nygaard, like literal Derek Zoolander stuff.

[Bretzky]

Yeah, right.

[Jay Dyer]

You're like, Zoolander on these supermodels. It's crazy. Anyway, you know, Whitney's. Whitney's book, when it gets to Wexner, he's an interview saying that he's possessed by a dybbuk. Have you seen that?

[Bretzky]

I have, yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. That was crazy. In fact, when I read that in her book, I was like that. Surely he didn't really say that. He did, so. Yeah, go ahead.

[Bretzky]

Well, one time when I went to Vegas, they had so ghost adventures. They did an episode with the Dybbuk Box. I don't know if you've seen that one.

[Jay Dyer]

This.

[Bretzky]

It was the one with Post Malone.

[Jay Dyer]

Right. Okay.

[Bretzky]

And who. I think, by the way, I think there's a photo of Post one that they're claiming is part of the Epstein files. I don't. I haven't tracked that down to see if that's true or not either. Yeah, it's not him doing anything bad, but he's supposedly in it. And that could just be bs. You see, on social media, there's so much BS going around right now.

[Jay Dyer]

There is a lot of crap going Around.

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[Bretzky]

And on the, on the. I don't remember if it was on the Ghost Adventures episode or a different thing I watched about the Dybbuk box, but I believe the one that Zach Baggins has in his museum. And I didn't go in the room because I, because I, I went through the house, through the, the haunted museum tour, but there was a couple rooms I, me and my wife were like, ah, I'm not going in there. And one of them was the Dybb Box room. And that Dybb Box he has on the back of it, it's got the Kabbalistic tree of life inside the box, which, which is curious to me. Right. Because it's just. That's a strange thing to have with this sort of possessed box that, that he supposedly had that possessed his mind. And, and that's, and that was like. Another question I have for you is with the Epstein files, have you seen anything that proves, you know, Satanic? I know a lot of people were made a big deal about the ball stuff like because he had this, this bank account and it says Baa1 and people are like, oh, that means ball, that means Moloch. But then they're, you know, the, the debunk of that as well. There's a Baa Ba 3 and so on. I guess it's a certain kind of account you can have. I don't really understand. But have you seen anything that suggests that.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't think the, the case here necessarily hinges on that. Like I said in the, the Bannon interview, he does specify that he's into esoteric stuff. As you said, the book list has multiple Crowley OTO type stuff on his. I think it's only five books on there, but one of them relates to sex, magic and Tantra from Crowley. You know, it's. It's hard to know exactly what the code language is with the beef jerky and the tuna and the seafood. Those were all really bizarre. It's also odd in terms of the frequency. To talk about this like hundreds of times is really, really bizarre.

[Isaac Weisson]

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[Jay Dyer]

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[Jay Dyer]

I suspect that's code language. I don't know 100%. But I suspect it is. Now what exactly it's code language for. It's hard to say. It could be. A lot of people haven't even considered the fact that well, if he is getting rid of bodies, let's say that that's involved to hear and that's why he bought the sulfuric acid in large quantities or whatever. Well, he could also be involved in organ, organ trafficking. This is a huge market. It's very lucrative. He seems to be a person kind of like Bill Gates or other, you know, philanthropist investors. They just got to throw their money all around to see what hits and what doesn't. So he seems to be involved in that Zoro Ranch stuff like cloning, genetic engineering, studying all that stuff. Perhaps baby farming like John of God's cult was creating broods etc to experiment on. That's a possibility. Did you see the request for Mormon blood? I thought that was pretty bizarre. Or somebody was saying they were going to send him Mormon blood. Yeah, go ahead.

[Bretzky]

I was gonna say that was a weird one. I just talked about. I, I've been doing more of the Epstein breakdowns on breaking social norms with my wife because my, the content on my occult symbolism show is kind of like booked. So I kind of hit the latest greatest over there. And we were talking about there's a bunch of theories of JonBenet Ramsey being involved in this epine stuff. And I kind of went into deep dived it and looked for some connections. And the, the, the sort of short, short version is there are some connections with Boulder, Colorado where this happened. Right. So I found a Forbes article that said Epstein was in Zorro Ranch in 1996. That was the year Ramsay was killed. And Zora Ranch is only five, six hours from Boulder. Then on top of that there's emails between Epstein and Kimball Musk, Elon Musk's brother. And Kimball lives in Boulder. I don't know for a fact he was living there in 96. He may or May I. I can't. I didn't track that down that far. But there's like weird emails between him and Kimball. And then on top of that there was this, this weird. You ever heard the Divine Madness running cult? It's this weird cult run by a guy named, I think his name is like the Source family has Father Yod. This guy's name is like yo, just Yo. And he. It was this running call. They were from Boulder, Colorado and they got linked. They were on that email with the Mormon blood email and they ended up moving from Boulder Colorado down to next to Zoro Ranch. So there's a lot of, there's, I didn't find anything conclusive to prove because, you know, there's the photos that.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah.

[Bretzky]

Of John Ramsay supposedly. Right.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. And then I saw another attempt at making an association between whatever company that JonBenet's dad worked for. There was, there was, because it's like a defense contracting thing. And then there was an alleged association between that and Epstein. But I didn't go too deep down that rabbit hole because I was so focused on all this other stuff that I, I, I did mention though that I suspect there would probably end up being connections to some of the famous serial killer cases because I think some of those serial killers had connections to organized crime. And you know, kind of like Dan McGowan's thesis is that, that there's other killers involved. They're not just lone gunman killers like Oswald or whatever. I wouldn't be surprised if eventually there isn't interconnections with Epstein stuff too, because this is such an international, multi layered crime operation that's like involved in everything. That's the craziest part is how much stuff it's involved in. I mean, if you think of it, there's some, you know, I mean, he's interested in, interested in getting certain things in the black Call of Duty black ops game to get people addicted to like spending the virtual currency. Really. I mean, the news of all this, like everything, it's just crazy, right? He puts money into trying to get into bitcoin very early on, by the way. I don't believe he co opted bitcoin. It's bitcoin's like email. It's like a protocol. They'd be like saying like DARPA created the Internet and email, so Internet emails evil. And it's like, yeah, you can. People try to buy and get into things. It doesn't necessarily mean it's evil. I mean, he's had his fingers in everything. So yeah, I think, I think it's really interesting to see what else comes out because I suspect people will just spend the next 10 years digging through this stuff, kind of putting together connections to things that we wouldn't have dreamed. And again, somebody was already saying that in the case of, for example, John Wayne Gacy, some of the people that Gacy was working with, because it turned out, turns out now that even WGN out of Chicago has reported on confirmed associates and other killers that Gacy was connected to. So he was connected to the Candyman and he was connected To. That's the whole, that whole Clown and Candyman podcast series you've probably heard over the years. But Pasky and Norman, there's. Somebody was saying that they dug up connections between even the Epstein network and John Norman, who was trafficking the young boys. So Epstein doesn't seem to be interested in boys. He seems to be more interested in females and young females. But again, if we're, if, if the information turns out to be correct when it comes to the beef jerky and the seafood and the tuna references, if that ends up being about human cannibal stuff, or if that ends up being about organ trafficking, then I think we're verging into full on, you know, the satanic. Because I don't know what else to call that.

[Bretzky]

Right, yeah, that's a good point. I mean, regardless of whether or not they're sort of bowing down to a statue of the. The goat with the bobs, it's. It is what it is.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, I think so. I, I did that 3D tour we did. One of the live streams we did was where you can do a 3D tour of his New York mansion. And I didn't notice any. I mean, there was some. There was a lot of predator prey artwork. So have you seen what's, what's the first of the Red Dragon cannibal lecture? No, no, the. The one before it. Manhunter.

[Bretzky]

I haven't seen that.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, you should watch that. The original one's Manhunter, because it. And that whole series, by the way, touches on a lot of the esoteric satanic stuff. Because in the new Hannibal TV series with Mads Mickelson, it's weird because Jamie and I were watching that series as all the substance stuff was coming out. I'm like, dude, it's some. I said, watch this turn into like Hannibal stuff. Watch it be like Hannibal, like just. I mean, this looks like that's where it's going. But it's funny because in the series, I don't want to spoil it, but

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[Jay Dyer]

Hannibal is a like MK Ultra psychiatrist who's Basically getting other serial killers and people that are his. He's basically getting his. His traumatized patients and kind of mind controlling them and becoming serial killers. Yeah. So he's like. He's like a handler, like, Phoenix program, like, teaching them and goading them and kind of lead them into becoming like him. And I'm thinking, man, this is like Epstein, like, the way that they seem to recruit people and bring them in and like, test to see how far they can get them to do how much degrading stuff, because then they know, you know, the more degrading stuff, like you're owned. You know what I mean? It's kind of like the mafia. You're making your bones. Right. Sacrifice behind the mic. You know that?

[Bretzky]

Yeah, right. Right. Yeah, that's. And that's. It's funny because I, I. People have been telling me to watch under the Silver Lake for years, and I finally watched it last year, and I have all my notes, and I was ready to record it. And today when I was like, prepping for our thing, I was looking at your. Your sort of recent stuff on your page, and I saw you had it under the Silver Lake.

[Jay Dyer]

We redid it. Yep.

[Bretzky]

Yeah. And I. I'm gonna listen to it, but I want to, like. I want to finish recording my notes so I can, like.

[Jay Dyer]

Sure.

[Bretzky]

No make heads or tails, but I don't know if you know. So you might have covered this, but in under the Silver Lake, when he goes to that. That when he's looking at the zines, there's another zine that talks about the Cult of the Whale and the people that are. And it says, like, it's people that are into trade and finance. And then sort of off this. Off the side, you see this thing about human trafficking stuff. I. I mean, they buried so much stuff in this movie that it's. And there's even. There's even a cannibalism scene in that movie. So, I mean, I don't know.

[Jay Dyer]

It.

[Bretzky]

It. The problem with the Epstein files is now it's got my brain working on overdrive, and I almost want to, like, re. Revisit everything and say, oh, well, this had a little more validity than I even gave it credit for. Right. Like the Kurt Barker book. I remember I did a review on the Kur Barker book and I said, I don't know, this seems a little nutty, but there was a scene in the movie Fresh that it just. The. The temple room in that movie Fresh was. Which is all about eating people. There's a scene that is Basically described by Kurt Barker's book before the movie came out. And I thought, well, that couldn't be a coincidence unless they used it as a source material.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, I mean, you know, when it's people's first hand testimonies like that, like, you know, we can't know for sure if that's what happened unless, you know, some kind of court case or something comes out or evidence comes out that corroborate. So it's always just first hand testimony. But they can be insightful and they can be correct because they may have gone through that. I mean, if Epstein is, is doing this at an international industrial scale, which he seems to be doing, even if it's not eating people, like all the other stuff is, it's. That's enough. Even if it's only half of it or third of what, like, that's crazy enough. And that can. Confirms most of the main points of the, you know, conspiracy stuff that we've talked about for so long. And I think, you know, from my vantage point, it's like it's always been the case that what's really going on is in the real. Is in the books, the real books, and it's in the movies. And the movies don't always tell you the whole story, but they will portray it in a symbolic or a coded, sometimes in an outright way and then sometimes in a kind of deceptive disinformation way. So I think you're right to look at things like under the Silver Lake and, and I think I did even. I didn't even notice the, the trafficking part you're talking about. I do remember, I think my, my revisit of this recently, it's a much better analysis than we did back in 2018 or whenever we first did it. So. Because I paid a lot more attention this time. But Jamie and I are about to go back through Eyes Wide Shut. We're. We're revisiting it as well after I think it's been about 10 years since I've done Eyes Wide Shot. So it's nice to go back to some of these classics in the movie realm as well. And like I said, like all these old movies like Manhunter and you know, I was talking about Epstein's Mansion. There's a lot he's. He seemed to be really obsessed with artwork that was Predator Prey, obviously underage looking people. When you do the, the virtual walk through, you don't. It's all blacked out, so you're not like seeing that actual stuff, but you can tell that it's, you know, artwork that is just gross, but and then artwork that seems to be very reminiscent of Man Ray. So I was talking about, you know, Black Dolia case and Man Ray's connection to association of George Hodel, the first, you know, Hollywood ritual murder case. And with Elizabeth Short and all that being kind of cut and put into this, you know, bull sort of look. Her torso is put into a bull form. And Epine even had some surrealist art that. That literally looks just like Man Ra. It might even be a Man Rank piece, I don't know, but.

[Bretzky]

Oh, wow.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, I'm just. I'm just saying that, like, you can tell some of the proclivity and people notice this back with the Pedesta stuff, right, with the artwork that the Pedestas were into. They even had a body that was sort of twisted in the exact form of the way that DMER would twist the bodies. Right. That was in the Washington Post. So all that just to say that. Yeah, you can tell, you know, when people's proclivities, when they're into really just sick stuff like that's going to go along with all the rest of the stuff. I'm just. I'm not. I'm not trying to read too much into the art, but I'm just saying, like, you know, if he's into predator, prey, and he's into this really nasty stuff, I wouldn't be surprised. I'm not going to be surprised if they don't have a, you know, fixation with, you know, because if it's predator, prey, what predators eat their. Their prey.

[Bretzky]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[Jay Dyer]

And by the way, animals cannibal. Many of the serial killers have been cannibals. Dahmer, Gary Heidnik, who's almost as bad. You could argue Hydnik's might maybe even worse than Dahmer. I mean, he was absolutely psycho. He's one of the most famous serial killers. Huge cannibal. And we know that in the Phoenix program they weren't just training serial killers, they were actually also making them cannibals. So according to Dogs Valentine. So I wouldn't be surprised if any of that turns out to be confirmed.

[Bretzky]

Do you think there's any chance that the Epstein files is a psyop of some kind and this is just some kind of extension of the QA Non thing? And they're. I mean, because it is the perfect distraction, like we're. I literally can't really think about much else, and I. I can't help but think, man, what are they doing over here? I don't know. I know.

[Jay Dyer]

I don't think it is because it's so damaging to, you know, places in the Middle East. It's so damaging to, you know, Trump himself consistently saying, let's get past this. Everybody wants to move past this. I mean, they wouldn't be saying that. And if this was just some distraction, however, it could be the case in the long term. The conspiracy conspirators believe that this might just normalize this type of stuff. Right. Especially the underage type stuff. And the reason for that is that, you know, these are technocratic, intelligent people, the really evil people. So they know that when there's a giant scandal like this, that it might even begin over time to actually normalize stuff. So people might become desensitized to it. Now, I'm not saying that it shouldn't come out because of that. I don't. I think these people need to be, you know, in some way brought to justice. This stuff is just horrendous. But, yeah, hopefully it won't have the effect of desensitizing or normalizing any of this degeneracy.

[Bretzky]

Yeah, I've seen the theories about this sort of like, revelation of the method, the Carnelian Law.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah.

[Bretzky]

And I don't know, man. I don't know what to think. Like I said, my. My mind is pretty scrambled right now and I'm pretty. I'm pretty confused on what to think.

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[Bretzky]

One thing I did learn about myself is that I kind of. I kind of. I've been hard on a lot of conspiracy people, man. I've been hard on Alex Jones. I gotta edit that out of here. I've been hard on Alex. I've been hard on Ian Carroll. And that's like my paranoia getting the best of me because, like, I'll hear things that I. I'm like, no, I think that's a. So I think that's an op, right? And now I'm like. And what's funny is, in light of the files now, I'm kind of like, okay, like Maybe I don't know as much as I thought I knew because I thought a lot of the stuff that I had researched that I would cover and I would even say, hey, let's talk about this interesting thing. I don't know that this is true. It seems a little sensational. And now my mind is all scrambled up and now I'm like, oh man, I think I need to go back to the beginning of like all this geopolitical stuff and, and like some of the books you've been tearing into and I need to sort of understand more about the big players involved.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, because like you said, like in, like we were saying earlier, you know, the, the occult, esoteric stuff is a very important angle on all this. But also that's just kind of one side of the pyramid you could say, because you've also got, you know, banking corporations that are the ones that really set up the structures that run the world, right? Cfr, Trilateral. And then beyond that, you know, the International bank for National Settlements is really important. Vatican bank, which by the way, as far as I can tell, nobody else talk about the Vatican bank in Epstein but me. I've been hammering that hardcore the last two weeks because he seemed to have a very intimate knowledge of the workings of the Vatican bank such that he's telling other bankers like Larry Summers under Clinton how it works. So yeah, and then I think to understand, you know, espionage and how, and what, what spies actually do with something that, something that we focus on quite a bit over here on my, my channel that really helps understand. Like, you know, if I was to say one book that, that outlines that in a couple hundred pages is Victor Ostrovsky's book by way of deception because he lays out Israel's philosophy as himself a Mossad guy, he lays out the Israeli philosophy of espionage and geopolitics. And okay, I think it's pretty obvious that, that Epstein was at some level working for the Mossad, but also for the CIA. He was flying CIA planes for like two decades. Like how like, you know, Whitney Webb shows in her, in her book that he even had it after, I think being convicted. Like he had like State Department like ability to go and fly and do stuff anywhere. So I think, you know, it's a high level person, higher than most people thought, doing things nobody else would have thought, even perhaps beyond what, what even Whitney Webb thought in her book because so much more has been confirmed and come out. But yeah, you got to understand the geopolitics side of it because what you're talking about with like disinformation. And I've always, I thought day one QAnon was disinformation, made videos right away saying I thought it was fake. And remember, disinformation doesn't mean that everything that's coming out is fake. Right, because they mix the fake with the true to make the disinformation more palatable. That's the whole purpose. So I think that what was going on with Pizza, you know what I think that was there was some, some nefarious activities going on, maybe CP type stuff and perhaps worse. You know, that was never proven, but it, it didn't look like that might be what that kind of operation was. And a lot of those Podesta emails, a lot of the WikiLeaks emails were you know, almost like a PG version of what we're seeing in the Epstein files. So I think that the Epstein files are like the rated R version or, or the NC17X rated version of what we saw in Podest and WikiLeaks emails and Hillary's emails too, by the way. So it's just confirmed. It's like another layer level above that stuff confirming know it's way worse than those, those leaks.

[Bretzky]

I so like the last time we talked you recommended I read a paper by Cass Sunstein, one of Obama's people.

[Jay Dyer]

A what, the one about cognitive infiltration?

[Bretzky]

Yeah, and, and basically the, the gist of it is that the best way to combat conspiracy theories is the I, I want to say the conclusion was the best way to infiltrate it is to insert actors into that world to like poke holes in the theories or to cast doubt on different things. And I think that paper was written in 2008. And I, I so like, I think about that, I think about all the, the history of, you know, Gamergate with Steve Bannon and Epstein with four chan and Pepe the Frog. And I just, I look at all and then Q and the Q drops and I just like, I look at all that and that, that put this weird amount of paranoia in me that I started. Like, like, like I, I said it before and it's like I would only trust people that were in this space pre pandemic, right? Which is only a handful of people. And now I'm kind of like, I'm shifting my ideas and I'm like, okay, maybe I don't, maybe I'm being like too hard on people and like not trusting enough because like with Ian Carol I always pick on Ian Carroll.

[Jay Dyer]

Right.

[Bretzky]

But because I, I, I have a lot of questions about how this guy got so big so fast, I have a million questions. But like, I've always said, like, his research and his presentation is great. So, like, I don't have a problem with him per se. I just, I'm always paranoid. I'm like, is this guy.

[Isaac Weisson]

Is this part of some off.

[Bretzky]

And my, my, my, my thought about the op that would be. Is what I'm. Is being reinforced by what I see on social media. If you go on social media, you'll find a lot of content that I'm going to be careful with my language here. Content that says, hey, the boogeyman is from, you know, this country over in the Middle East. And I remember thinking, like, that's crazy that this is all over the place now. Like, this is stuff that used to get torched for, and now it's everywhere. And, you know, me and Carol, he talked. He's very outspoken about all this stuff. And I think, gosh, if I did this, I feel like I would get kicked off of every platform there is. But then I think, you know, because of all my paranoid thinking of all those things I laid out, I think. I think this is all a plot to see who is going to take the bait to talk about this thing so that, I don't know, they can do some kind of ultimate censorship of that.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, I, I just, I mean, that's a valid line of argument and thought. I thought the exact same thing. Like, are they just trying to bait everybody to see who's gonna come out of the woodwork to talk about this kind of stuff? And then they got a record of everybody who's. Yeah, I mean, I've thought that too. But I also think at the same time, it's like. Well, but there's also a lot of people actually realizing these things. So, I mean, I don't trust the government. I don't trust anybody in the government. Even though I might have said over the years, like, okay, it's great if Putin does this. It's bad if Putin does that. Great if Trump does this, bad if he does that. I've always been. I mean, I quit caring about politics after, like, the Ron Paul era. I was like, okay, this is not really. It doesn't really achieve much. Right.

[Bretzky]

I mean, maybe I'm getting there, too.

[Jay Dyer]

Maybe at a local level, you could do some good doing politics or something, but, like, national politics, I mean, unless you're a lobbyist or you have hundreds of millions of dollars or a billionaire, like, you're not really going to affect much of the. At The Internet, the, you know, presidential, national level. So I think it's valid to consider that. But I think when you've got like, you know, Thomas Massie and people like that really pushing to have this stuff come out, I mean, and the President's against him, it's like, I don't care about, like, Massey being good or bad. I'm just saying, like, I don't. That to me signifies that there's a real awakening and people really figuring out, like, who's really controlling the west, our government, etc. I don't think it's just Middle Eastern people, but they have a huge power and influence and they have for a long time.

[Bretzky]

Okay, I got one more little question for you here. The tragedy. And so when, when I started a few months ago saying, man, I think I need to understand this geopolitical stuff that I don't really have a lot of interest in. One of the books that seems to be one of the bibles of this is Tragedy and Hope by Carol Quigley. Do you. It's a massive book and I know you've done a series of lectures on this book. Is that the best place to start? And do I need to track down the first edition that costs, I don't know, 500 bucks or whatever it is?

[Jay Dyer]

I mean, no, you can get the one that's the blue cover. It's fine. To my knowledge, there's not missing stuff. I mean, all the juicy details are in the copy that I have. But, but really tragic Hope is just kind of the big master volume that Quigley wrote. And he was a CFR archivist, so he was kind of working from the Council, Foreign Relations own personal archives. And he says in the book, like, they let me in because I'm a member of the cfr. I'm a big supporter of it. They let me into the archives to write their history of the 20th century. So remember, it's not a conspiracy book. It's a, an apologetic for. Oh, okay. For the establishment. And he was Bill Clinton's mentor at Georgetown. So he's a military historian. Right. So he's not like a billionaire or a banker or whatever, but he's a. He was an academic at Georgetown brought into the establishment. And the whole thesis of the book is just basically the tragedy of the 20th century is the two world wars, which the bankers basically had a huge role in being involved in. And then the, and, and then the, the hope is that democratic liberal capitalism will save the world. That's basically the thesis of it. So the book is about.

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[Jay Dyer]

From a geostrategic standpoint, the Anglo American Atlantis establishment taking out in the 20th century their two rivals, namely the Austro Hungarian Empire, which was Catholic, and Russia, which was orthodox and Czarist. Those two powers needed to go away for the Anglo American establishment to have dominance. So he wrote that in the 1960s and he's writing before you had more influence from APAC and Middle Eastern people. So it's not that he's denying that, it's just before they had a huge amount of influence in the US Government. A better, easier book to start with from Quigley is his other book, Anglo American Establishment, because he wrote that in 1982 and he said this book is actually going to be about the pyramid itself and these, the Atlanticist establishment. And he starts with Rothschilds. He goes into the Fabian Society, he goes into their networks. How this all comes out of Cecil Rose and the British Empire. Cecil Rose being basically a legate or an attache of the Rothschilds, just like Jeffrey Epstein seems to be a legator. I just attach the Rothschild. By the way, there's some other books that make some good arguments that my publisher just put out a book about who funded Tiny Mustache Man. There's some really good chapters on JP Morgan perhaps also being a front for the Rothschilds in the U. In in the U.S. because a lot of people don't think, a lot of people think that the, the Russells didn't have any influence in America. It was just the, you know, Rockefellers. But if JP Morgan is a front for the Rothschilds, that's actually another angle on this. But okay, anyway, so Establishment would actually be an easier book to start with. It's more readable and it just gives you the outline of who is in power in the West. And he wrote that before he died in 1982. It's just basically a shorter, like 200 page version of tragic and Hope. But if you want to go into all the juicy details of Tragic Hope, go for it. It's.

[Bretzky]

But no, that's, that's great advice.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's tedious.

[Bretzky]

Okay, now you Talk about your book publisher. So you've got the esoteric Hollywood series. The latest drop is esoteric Hollywood 3 dropped October 25th. What can we expect to read in that when we pick that up?

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, so in one, just brief overview, like, I focused on directors and we did about 60, 80 pages per director. You know, you got a Spielberg, you got a Kubrick, obviously Hitchcock, all that kind of stuff. Then we talked about Bond a little bit. In the second one, I focused on themes. So it's like organized crowd crime in Hollywood, transhumanism in Hollywood, MKULTRA in Hollywood, weather modification in Hollywood movies. So it's kind of. It's kind of a wild one. And then the third one, I wanted to include more. So there's actually more, way more movies. And Instead of like 20 page essays on one movie, it's like five page essays on more movies. Because a lot of films don't even. You don't need a 20 page essay. Right, right. And I wanted to include them in there because, you know, you might have a movie that's like a B movie that has some really interesting, fascinating element in it, but it's not worth a whole, you know, you know, 20 page analysis. So there's a whole section, for example, on occult B movies that had some pretty profound crolian themes, mind control themes. So like 18th angel with Rachel Lee Cook. That's one of her first films that she was ever in. Really wild satanic abuse, cloning in the Roman Catholic Church. Yeah, it's a really wild one. We've got movies with early Drew Barrymore films that had a lot of MK Ultra weird stuff, kind of obscure TV movies that she's in. Weird ones like Doppelganger. There's quite a few. I finally got to David Cronenberg. So I went through a lot of the, the Cronenberg esoterica that I'd never really covered in the past. But more so outside of the B movies, it's. It's Marvel for the first 60 pages, 70 pages. Because people have been saying, how come you haven't covered the Marvel movies? Where's the, you know, that's been so huge in the last 20 years in terms of cultural influence and mind control. So I finally buckled down and did about 60 pages of Marvel stuff. I hit a lot of dystopian films that I never got into in terms of like the Mad Max series and, and the recent Mad Max Gnostic Goddess savior archetype. That's another theme that I put into this book and how that ties into Feminism. And then towards the end of the book, it's. There's a whole section on. I think I called it Hollywood. Hollywood Horror, Trauma, Alchemy. And I went back and found that some of the earliest black and white silent films that were created were actually about Crowley. Did you know that?

[Bretzky]

No. I've heard of like. I think it's called Night of the Demon. That was about Crowley, but that's the

[Jay Dyer]

one I knew way earlier than. That's like 50s. Yeah. So I think I mentioned. I might have. I can't remember if I mentioned either demon, but the villain in that space on Curly. You're correct. But no. All the way back to like the 20s. So there's a series. Yeah. One of them is called the Mysteries of Myra and I forget the name of the other one off top of my head, but so I went all the way back.

[Bretzky]

Man. Those are deep cuts.

[Jay Dyer]

It blew me away that, like some of the earliest serials, which is where they would do like a little, you know, eight minute silent picture that was part of the story. And then the next one was the next eight minutes of a silent movie story. Some of the earliest serials were about Crowley. Isn't that crazy?

[Bretzky]

Wow. I had no idea, dude. Yeah, that's great, man.

[Jay Dyer]

Now they're hard to watch. You can watch it and kind of makes some of it out, but it's so grainy and like low quality. It's. It's. And some of the. The footage has actually been lost, so it's hard to know exactly what. But it is. There's two. One of them, in fact. One of them, Crowley said that he himself hated the portrayal. Like he. It was. It was really early. I forget exactly when he died, but do you remember when he. Around when he died?

[Bretzky]

Yeah. December of 47.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay. So he had seen these and he was like one. I think he liked one of them. And then he might have even consulted on Mysteries of Myra. But then the other one, which portrayed him as the villain, he hated it. The name of it.

[Bretzky]

That's true, man.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah.

[Bretzky]

All right. Definitely scooping out.

[Jay Dyer]

Are you still selling? Yeah.

[Bretzky]

You still selling signed copies on your website of the esoteric Hollywood series?

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. Jason. Elisa. Dot com.

[Isaac Weisson]

Perfect.

[Bretzky]

Okay. And I'll put a link in the show. Notes. Last thing. What's next for Jay Dyer? I know you're. You've got a million appearances lined up probably, right? What else you got going on?

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, I mean, we're hoping for some big stuff in 2026, maybe some big, big podcasts. We'll have to wait and see. I'll be doing a lot of the previous podcasts that you've seen me on. I'm gonna be doing again Tim cast pretty soon, I think, and then probably have some more debates. We just did a big debate last night with a kind of a neoplatonic, gnostic, ish type of dude. Since part three is out, I don't know if I'm going to be writing anything in 2026. I kind of got burnt out after writing that circle with three. But if I do another book, it'll. It will probably be something geopolitics and espionage related, trying to tie in cults and stuff. Oh, another thing in part three, by the way, I forgot to mention is I went into some of the spies or some of the A listers who were spies, which I had not actually covered yet. So I thought that was worth putting into esoteric Hollywood, obviously. So there's a chapter on Tom Cruise's spy. Well, you know, I did find one article where Tom Cruise, after 9 11, went to the CIA and said, I want to promote and do promos for you guys. So I didn't find a specific, you know, agent type of thing, but he did, he did do promo stuff, kind of like Jennifer Garner did. So that exists. But no, I could see it though.

[Bretzky]

I could see Tom Cruise being a spy because, I mean, the guy is. I mean, he does all those action stunts. I mean, the guy is like a cut above normal, normal people. Like something's going on there.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. And speaking of Hollywood, I don't know if you know who Dasha Necrosova is, but I just did an interview with her and she made a movie years ago called scary of 61st. It was her first kind of horror, her first written and directed film. And it, it was pretty spot on with what all she predicted is about Epstein. Wow. So that's a pretty wild film. And we did an interview the other day anyway, so we did more interviews with hopefully people from Hollywood. I've been talking to Vivian Kubrick quite a bit. We've had some, you know, phone conversation type stuff going on. So I'm trying to get her. Almost gonna do an interview with Vivian very soon.

[Bretzky]

Nice, dude. Yeah. And she doesn't believe that Kubrick filmed the fake moon landing, right?

[Jay Dyer]

No.

[Bretzky]

Okay.

[Jay Dyer]

No. Well, I. I've never. That's Jay Wiedner's theory, so that's not my theory.

[Bretzky]

Okay.

[Jay Dyer]

All right, all right, all right.

[Bretzky]

Okay. All right, well. Well, tell the people where they can find you.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, you can go to jason alice.com and subscribe there. Check out all the archive stuff. You can find me under my name on YouTube. Jay Dyer. You can find me on Instagram, Twitter, just, just my name. And then also been writing for the Sam Hyde show, so doing some, some comedy stuff too, which is a lot of fun.

[Bretzky]

Yeah, dude, that's cool, man. Yeah, we need to maybe in 27 link up, do another live lecture. Man, that was, that was the highlight of my year doing that with you. So, yeah, thanks for coming back on, man. Appreciate it.

[Jay Dyer]

Absolutely. Anytime.

[Isaac Weisson]

All right, there you go. That was the interview with Jay Dyer. So if you want to get more from Jay, be sure to follow him. I put all the links in the show notes. You can get his esoteric Hollywood series from Jay's analysis dot com. Right.

[Bretzky]

And also posted a bunch of links

[Isaac Weisson]

from previous interviews we've done over the years.

[Bretzky]

You can also catch him on, you know, Voldemort show the name the shot but not be named. You can catch him on that show as well. He's all over the place. He's. The man's doing crazy interviews everywhere. The dude's really busy right now, so I appreciate him spending some time with us. So also another quick caveat.

[Isaac Weisson]

The next episode, the ones I'm working on furiously in the background is under the Silver Lake film analysis.

[Bretzky]

It's.

[Isaac Weisson]

It's looking like it's going to be a two parter. It's just too much information.

[Bretzky]

So be sure to watch under the Silver Lake and you can follow writings. I'm obviously gonna plot spoil, right. And I'm gonna obviously do the video version of the show. And I've had, I've had problems with

[Isaac Weisson]

YouTube allowing me to put any movie clips at all.

[Bretzky]

I don't know how these other channels get away with it. They'll put like just tons of movie clips.

[Isaac Weisson]

I can't, I can't put one second of audio video.

[Bretzky]

I mean, I'll try it. It almost always kicks it back and gives me copyright flags. So the YouTube version of under the

[Isaac Weisson]

Silver Lake probably won't have any film clips in it.

[Bretzky]

So if you want the film clips intact, you're going to have to go tier 2 in the Patreon or VIP section. But, you know, let's see what happens. Maybe, maybe it'll let it fly. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Usually it doesn't. But either way, that's what's coming next. Thank you for listening to the show.

[Isaac Weisson]

Till next time, stay positive.

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[Jay Dyer]

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